"Again, it's important for recently reduced Hogan associates to remember that they can better deal these numbers if they can find hours to bill. "
This sentence makes no sense.

Horrible trend to start ... other firms do not follow if you want to succeed in recruiting top talent

Again, it's important for ATL editors to remember that they can better deal these problems if they check their fucking work before posting.

"they can better deal these numbers"?

Please, Lat, dump a notebook again.

how can you find hours to bill now if it's not your fault you didn't have work in the first place?

Elie, I note that you have evolved from complaining about the unmitigated gall everyt ime a bonus was reduced to realizing that those of us how have jobs are lucky even if it means a salary cut. The ridiculous push to $160 plus 35K bonususe was what got us in this mess in the first place, and I applaud any fimr that will avoid layoffs by the modest reductios.

HOGAN HAS NO HEART SON

although I think work will pick up faster than most people expect, I think its also safe to say that graduating law students are pretty F*ed right now

8,

I too agree everyt ime that fimr bonususe were ridiculous and there should be reductios. Don't you get the little red lines under your misspellings? Are you related to Elie?

u said it 7

1800 hours = 3600 sq ft wife in Texas

3:

Top talent? What does that even mean? You confuse status with talent.

These posters are ignorant. The "push to 160" was accompanied by rate increases, and did not cause layoffs. Do you really not see the relationship between billing rates, salaries, and billable hours? You bill at a certain rate for a certain number of hours and, magically, you get a certain salary. Bad billable hours, at $120k, $145k, or $160k is going to get you fired.

How does this work? Fewer hours means less revenue, so even with the pay cut, aren't we just back where we started? Shouldn't there be an increase in hours, a cut in pay, and a cut in billable rate? Granted, that would suck for the associates involved, but it would bring in more cash.

Top Talent? Reality check: you confuse status with talent for doing a job well.

nuff said 7

nuff said 7

Law students need to STFU about TOP LEGAL TALENT. When firms are in the fight of their lives against the economy, nobody gives a shit.

What the H is going on at Dangle McCutcheon?

HOGAN
HAS
NO
HEART
SON

15:

you're a retard. They're not saying "only do this," just that "if you only do this, you're only getting that."

HOGAN
HAS
NO
HEART
SON

I'm a 3L. I do not understand...

so all first years who bills UP TO 1800 hours (even, say 1500 hrs) get $145k, and those who bill over 1800 are paid more on a pro-rated scale?

HOGAN
HAS
NO
HEART
SON

This is worse than having a football team take turns dipping their balls in your mouth after a game in early September.

Veronica Mars

no heart

SON

It's the money you could be saving with GEICO.

i heart YOU IDIOTS

"We fill out the scale after the jump."

Actually, I'm guessing you break most scales after you jump.

I hope you're getting paid for that, 28.

"Je suis l’Empire à la fin de la décadence . . ."

-Paul Verlaine

30 -- post of the day; please pay the dry-cleaning bill for the soda I just spit on myself.

Classic 30. Classic.

the extra money for billing over 1800 is just a bonus on a reduced pay scale.

This is very hard and sad for the staff that were dumped off the sinking ship without hope of a lifeboat! Very sad for the staff. In this climate of layoffs, it will be extremely difficult for them to find jobs law firms again. And like for lawyers, staff at law firms are paid pretty well compared to the rest of the corporate world. My heart goes out to them. And my prayers go up for them!

This is very hard and sad for the staff that were dumped off the sinking ship without hope of a lifeboat! Very sad for the staff. In this climate of layoffs, it will be extremely difficult for them to find jobs law firms again. And like for lawyers, staff at law firms are paid pretty well compared to the rest of the corporate world. My heart goes out to them. And my prayers go up for them!

Sucks to be idiots like you.

skadden secure

Makes more sense than paying 1st years more than 5th years like some firms are doing (or at least one firm)

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner the Glass Cock here, educating 14 as to the importance of something called fixed costs in the law firm universe. The reason that $160k causes so many more problems compared to $145k is as follows. If there is little to no work available, the higher billing rates that justified the $160k in your mind have become moot. What isn't moot is the firm's obligation to continue to pay you $160k. In a firm that has, say, 350 associates, the additional $15k per FTE in fixed costs is a pretty big hit to the monthly budget. It results in layoff decisions being made quicker and with a broader scope, as the firm just can't carry those higher fixed costs for the same period that they could when salaries were lower, so they have to cut rather than ride out the bad times without cutting.

Glass Cock, out.

145k for billing a bare minimum 1800? With a bonus for going over? Isn't this the dream?

Even from jail I am stealing from you

YOU PEOPLE ARE THE BIGGEST IDIOTS I HAVE EVER KNOWN

Too bad for the Dow is Up Guy. Dow closed below 8000. Recession back on.

I just GULCed in my jorts after reading 30

what control does a class of 2008 or even 2007 have over hours. This is absurd.

Smells a lot like a pay-cut, but I could live with 1800 hours for $145K, provided billing 1800 isn't a veiled pretext for more "performance-based" layoffs.

Has anyone, perchance, ever heard of the phenomenon called the "Dead Cat Bounce"? Google it!

46 you are absurdly STUPID

haven't they been watching the DOW? RECESSION IS OVER. OBAMA FIXED THE ECONOMY.

1st year salaries should be moving to $175k now.

48: there's no such thing as a 4 week dead cat bounce.

51 - perhaps it's a rubber cat..?

"Really, at this point all anybody can do is to keep working and hope for the best."

How profound...

Can we please get an article on 2009 bonuses?

51: Allow me to retort, with a kind chuckle directed at your naiveté, that in the land of Oz there were also never such things such as mortgage-backed securities . . .

48/55 - I'm guessing you'll be calling this a dead cat bounce all the way up to 10,000. Have fun with that. Oh yeah, and say hi to your mother for me, alright?

56 - Yo mama's reading list right here: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/05/why-the-real-estate.html

Ask her if I can borrow them when she's done.

First to say its crap that 2007 is being paid the same as 2008.

There are layoffs going on at Mayer Brown today. Can anyone confirm what's happening there!

There are layoffs going on at Mayer Brown today. Can anyone confirm what's happening there!

Seriously, 60? That post went up before noon. Try scrolling down.

61 - Mayer Brown posts are Hogan partners throwing out red herrings to distract everyone's attention from the posts above. In some circles, it's called a "ninja smoke bomb" move.

"Really, at this point all anybody can do is to keep working and hope for the best."

Just go ahead and end every post for the rest of the year with this shallow platitude. Your IT guy can teach you to make one o' them macro things where you won't even have to type it all out each time.

As a small firm first year, that's still sounding pretty good to me. My expectation is 1900 hrs and $145k is a salary I can only dream about. The sympathy is not forthcoming.

And no, I don't live in nowhere, Iowa where houses are practically free. And no, I didn't go to a T3 school and graduate in the bottom half. I live in Chicago and graduated top half of a T1 school, thanks for asking.

47: it is a veiled pretext, and it's already happening.

Nice. If my firm adopts this model I'm out $45K. Oh well. I'm just going to have to learn to live on a fixed income.

64 - If you had the option to go to a big firm and make more for your 1950 hours, and chose not to take it, then that was your decision. Don't whine about it now and wish that everyone else would be pulled down to your level.

I'm an incoming associate in BigLaw. I'm worth at least 250K annually. I'm going to Wachtell.

56 - You keep on thinking that stocks are going to turn around in a V at least a whole year before the economy.

#41 said it best. You must be an actual practicing attorney (like me). And yes, that is the dream...

Rats aboard the USS BigLaw, prepare to jump. Wheeeeeee! It's like the Titanic, with the partners playing the role of the weasel in drag who tries to get in the lifeboats first with all of the women and children. And what becomes of the poor Kates and Leonardos? They're left behind with still-starry eyes pondering the fantasy of it all, clutching an unfinished timesheet to their breasts as if it could magically waft them to the buffet line at the next partners' retreat . . .

why does this have to be such a bad thing? I mean in all of the previous surveys, the majority of associates say they would prefer to take a pay cut and work fewer hours. it would be nice if there were a trend toward allowing associates to voluntarily opt for this route without having a fear of getting laid off. the bad part of hogan's method is that the lower hour/pay scale is forced, not voluntary... but the general concept is pretty solid.

I think Jones Day does something along these lines, but salaries are (theoretically) secret.

I know for a fact that peopel with really low hours are put on a lower payscale (at least sometimes) vs peopel with better hours.

On the plus side, they haven't been laying these people off as far as I have seen (and some have been doing nothing for months) so its really more than fair.

73 - are poepel the same as people?

seems reasonable. If you aren't billing, can you really expect the $160K, and if you are billing then you get the money you would have made anyway. Seems like a reasonable approach to addressing the slow down in business.

So sad to hear about the assistants. Classy move re associates.

So sad to hear about the secretaries who were let go. Classy move re associates.

Law firms need to cut billing rates, and law schools need to cut tuitions. Then everything will right itself.

It's nice to see that Hogan is treating associates like people. If someone is a good performer and just doesn't have hours because of the market, it seems very cold to lay them off in a market like this.

Carrot: Associate, you missed the blade. You just might make it through. Stick: Better do everything short of shine partners' shoes from now on, or we'll throw you to the sharks. One wonders whether it's better to be loved or feared.

Extremely smart. And fair.

Classy move

72- good point

BigLaw lite: coming to a firm near you!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/opinion/02thu4.html?em

I'm a little tired of this "not your fault if you don't have hours" bullshit. Layoffs have already happened, open, stealth, performance or otherwise, at just about every firm out there. So the ranks have thinned. Those of us who are left fall into two categories - valued associates who are getting dumped on and working 150%+ of the hours required to track to 1900 or 2000, and the others, who wish they had work to do, and are shitting themselves knowing they'll be next to go if things don't pick up soon.

Having said all that, it's just evidence of how clueless law firms are at managing resources. They literally have some resources being driven so hard that they're making dumb mistakes, and others that are barely being utilized at 50%. It's a fucking joke.

What really ought to happen is a migration to a system where poepel who know nothing are paid little until they are actually worth something. Then they make some money. Pay for play, baby.

86, I am a little tired of you. Eat a dick, you miserable fucktard.

Can anyone comment on Schiff Hardin?

Can anyone comment on Schiff Hardin?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/opinion/02thu4.html?_r=1&em

This article is absurd

"If the downturn is prolonged, law schools will need to keep tuition and other costs in check so students do not graduate with unmanageable debt. More schools may follow the lead of Northwestern, the first top-tier law school to offer a two-year program."

Law schools have no plans to lower tuition. 90% of law school graduates do not make $160,000 right out of law school yet law school costs have risen dramatically. If people stopped applying to 2nd tier law schools than they would have an incentive to lower law school costs, yet law school applications are on the rise.

"Lower pay should mean that associates will not need to work the grueling hours many have been forced to. And it will mean less pressure to go into private practice for law graduates who would rather do something else."

Does Cohen honestly believe that lower pay will correlate with less hours. There is no evidence of that.

Smart and decent of Hogan.

We end with an aria of Hogan partners, linking arms and singing in lament, as they watch the wave that is the future wash over them and rumble to shore.

23 - Hil. A. Rious. I've done a lot of deals with H&H over the years. This news is disturbing. Who in their right mind would choose the 1800 hour track? I - with great reluctance - agree with 86 (and 88 (my own self loathing)).

Who would choose the 1800 track? I would. I'd use the extra time to go out and make connections that would lead to a book of business. Maybe you don't stay at Hogan because the 1800 group is considered mommy track, but for long term planning, the firm is paying plenty and you can actually go meet people.

Breaking from the herd. Smart, classy move.

The glass cock doesn't understand what fixed costs means. Fixed = something you CANNOT EASILY CHANGE. For example, costs on facilities (offices). Variable = something you CAN easily change. For example, labor. Hire someone, fire someone - you change your cost structure . . . your VARIABLE cost structure.

/me is frustrated when people pretend to know what they're talking about. The world needs fewer armchair economists and more real ones.

F*CK Warren. These bastards have already cut over 10% of their workforce through stealth layoffs and they continue to cut. Also, that bastard Warren promised at the beginning of the year that while he could never say never about layoffs, he would not push us down to the 1800 track if the lack of work was not our fault. This firm is a TTT. They don't pay you a decent bonus when you bill 2400++ and they immediately take away your comp when things slow. Bill 2400 last year (and every year before that), have a slow 2 months because of economy and vacation/holidays, but then have it pick up over the next couple of months, and have your comp cut by around 50k (+/- depending on class year). What a bunch of c*cksuckers. Who will man this sinking ship when the work comes back (like it already has)? While Warren thinks he is a genius, he is really a moron. And if he didn't have his hand in everyone else's originations, he would have none because his precious REIT work is dead.

Yes, yes, Hogan partners, I know the crisis or "brand" management firm you hired to handle this debacle urged you to litter this forum with short, vapid, self-congratulatory posts, but give it a rest already, will ya? The only thing "transparent" about this salary cut news is the fact that 11, 18, 76, 77, 81, 82, 83, 89, 90, 92, 95, and 96 are all inside hack posts. Stop using the word "classy" too, your embarrassing yourselves. No, the media will not pick this up as a "classy" strategy. Fire the crisis management firm that came up with that stupid crap and give that money to the associates (or better yet, staff).

Yes, yes, Hogan partners, I know the crisis or "brand" management firm you hired to handle this debacle urged you to litter this forum with short, vapid, self-congratulatory posts, but give it a rest already, will ya? The only thing "transparent" about this salary cut news is the fact that 11, 18, 76, 77, 81, 82, 83, 89, 90, 92, 95, and 96 are all inside hack posts. Stop using the word "classy" too, your embarrassing yourselves. No, the media will not pick this up as a "classy" strategy. Fire the crisis management firm that came up with that stupid crap and give that money to the associates (or better yet, staff).

Also, pro bono hours, 20 of which are mandatory, 100 of which count towards bonus (not that there will be one), are NOT included in the calculation. So, if you've done 760 hours of billable from November to May, and 100 hours of pro bono, which would count towards your bonus, you're still getting the cut.

Actually, most of the associates I've talked to support this program, especially over layoffs. It was always assumed when coming to Hogan that if you didn't have the work you could be bumped down to the 1800 hour track. The fact that associates aren't being layed off and that if things pick up they can make the 1950 money on the back-end is much better than what most firms are doing to their associates.

Hogan & Hartson is not an elite law firm. The management likes to pretend that their peer group is comprised of firms like Skadden, Simpson, Cleary, etc., but in reality, they are a DC version of Alston & Bird. The firm is fortunate to have the talent it has now, but it won't last. I would advise any top ten law grad to avoid Hogan like a date with herpes. They will work you just as hard as any other firm, and then expect you to act happy with a crummy bonus at year end. Now, they are making strong associates take pay cuts because they believe that by keeping the morons and not laying anyone off, they will somehow increase their prestige in the legal community (e.g., we never laid any attorney off during the recession). In reality, they have done plenty of "stealth" layoffs, and now they are screwing everyone who is left. I am getting out at the first opportunity. And until then, I am going to work like an 1,800 hour a year lawyer. So put that in your pipe and smoke it Warren.

102 is a Hogan partner troll. And we won't make the money on the back-end. OUR SALARIES ARE STILL FROZEN AT LAST YEAR'S LEVEL.

Hogan & Hartson = TTT