Loyola - Chicago Dean Responds to Criticism
(And to Above the Law Commenters)
Yesterday, we reported on a law student at Loyola - Chicago who was very unhappy with how one law school course was being taught. Today, Dean David Yellen responded to the critics, in an email to the entire law school community:
Dear Students,By now, many of you have read or heard about the “Above the Law” item regarding our third year student who complained to me about Accounting for Lawyers. I thought I would give you a little additional information.
After the student e-mailed me (and the entire class) late Monday night, I spoke with Professor Ramirez early Tuesday. He was already planning to meet with the student, which he did that day. They had a very good discussion, after which the student e-mailed me apologizing for the tone of his e-mail and saying that he was pleased with Professor Ramirez’s plans for the rest of the semester. The student concluded, “I have, for the most part, truly enjoyed my experience here at Loyola and this experience will not change my belief that I chose the right law school for me.” I was proud of the student for acknowledging a mistake in sending the e-mail.
Yesterday, the student wanted money back for having to take the class. We assume that didn’t happen.
But after the jump, Dean Yellen expresses disappointment in the students who commented on yesterday’s post.
The Dean didn’t throw his professor under the bus:
Professor Ramirez agreed to take on a course he had never taught before. The course could be taught as a sort of “Accounting 101” or more like “Accounting and the Law.” Given his background and interests, and in light of the profound legal and accounting issues raised by our extraordinary economic condition, Professor Ramirez decided to teach it more like the latter. I apologize that we may not have clearly enough communicated with students that the course may be taught differently from the way it has been taught in the past. But I have heard from a number of students that Professor Ramirez’s course has been timely, interesting and challenging.
But he does bristle at some of the ATL commenters:
As the father of three adolescent girls, I don’t think I am too easily shocked by what young people say. I have to say, though, that I was really taken aback by the tone of some of the comments posted on Above the Law. I know that these more extreme comments came from only a tiny fraction of our wonderful students. Please show some consideration to a student who had a bad moment. And if you have complaints about our faculty or administration, how about coming in to talk about it, or coming to a Town Hall Meeting? We welcome good faith criticism, which helps us improve. We are by no means a perfect institution, but my colleagues on the faculty and in the administration really are on your side. Especially in these tough, anxious times, we really do want to help, even if we sometimes fall short in our efforts.
As many of you know, we’ve hidden the comments — for your protection. But Dean Yellen is right that the “extreme” comments come from only a “tiny fraction” of the ATL commenter community.
At least the Dean is listening. Students want to be heard; addressing their concerns is usually a good move. Dean Yellen has decided to hold a Town Hall meeting next Tuesday:
Dear Students,I will be holding a special Town Hall Meeting on Tuesday, April 28 at noon in Room 1103. I will discuss and answer questions about the “Above the Law” incident, the new U.S. News rankings and anything else on your minds. In addition, I will describe a possible”bridge year” program that we are developing to assist our graduating students in pursuing their professional objectives during an extremely challenging economic environment. I really hope you will join me.
Sincerely,
David N. Yellen
Ah yes, the “‘Above the Law’ incident.”
Only a few more days left until finals are over. Hopefully students will be able to keep it together a little while longer.
Earlier: The 3L Meltdown: A Loyola - Chicago Law Student Wants a Refund
(117) Comments
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i'm firsty
This student definitely has a bright future as a Latham partner.
First to say who cares about some TTT dean massaging his TTT students.
Dean Yellen's comments about ATL commentators make me so angry I can't even sleep!
On the subject of comments, Judge Posner wrote an opinion about the patentability of the Glass Cock today.
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/opinions/08-1528.pdf
Those comments were probably the most honest feedback about his school he has ever gotten.
Very odd that the Dean would bring up his adolescent daughters and basically say that they use harsh language. Plus, now the comments will be filled with comments about the Dean's adolescent daughters. Not well played.
Also: "Crticism" in the title, that's nice.
That student was such a dumbass. Keep your personal outrages private. Otherwise, they end up on ATL and alot of people get embarrassed.
Still handled better than the bathroom blowjob incident at WCL. Jaffe tracked down everyone who forwarded the gchat so he could send them a "shame on you" speech. And by "everyone who forwarded," I mean people who did not even go to WCL but got the email from a WCL student.
5, funny stuff! Equally amazing that Posner "wrote" that opinion all in one day.
All motions for promissory estoppel shall hereby be quashed forthwith.
I'm having impure thoughts
"As the father of three adolescent girls, I don't think I am too easily shocked by what young people say."
LOL. Dean's daughters are potty-mouths.
That student is a douchebag and a pussy.
If you're going to protest,
1. Make it something worth protesting over, like jobs.
2. Stick ot your protest, like your brethren from Loyola LA. Don't pussy out like a bitch and apologize. What the f*ck is wrong with you?
Asshole.
I bet if the student had privately spoken to the Dean there wouldn't be a forthcoming town hall meeting.
You shouldn't have outed the professor. He's a good guy.
Any guesses as to whether the Dean threatened to write the student up for his conduct? I'm thinking they threatened him into apologizing. I especially love that the Dean feels it's okay to offer a crappy course because the professor is new at teaching the subject...way to demonstrate quality education!!!
Dean Yellen mentioned the professor by name in his email (which he surely knew would get leaked to ATL).
"Dean Jaffe tracked down everyone who forwarded the gchat so he could send them a "shame on you" speech..."
How did he track them down?
Frankly, I think that dean handled this quite well. It could have been really embarrassing.
@5 Is it just me or does Posner have a knack for winding up on panels hearing the most interesting/salacious cases. Does he get strings pulled on his panel selections/by designation assignments? Or maybe the two variables are correlated because he just makes the case more interesting by virtue of being on the panel. (Not sure this opinion would have been as interesting if, say, Judge Kanne had authored it.)
what does it mean when your balls just won't stop itching?
Clearly if the Dean's daughters use language of a character that he feels compelled not to be "shocked" thereby, then he clearly is a douchebag as a father. Therefore, not qualified to be a dean.
Dean Yellen:
If you are reading this round of posts, I hope that your bridge program is not another worthless pursuit like the new UCLA LLM (practical skills), save that for your future satellite campus in India. At least train students for the future and not the past by offering project management, legal knowledge management and legal risk management skill sets.
15-thanks.
He is a good professor. His perspectives on corporate governance in Bus. Org. were much more informative and practical than any casebook.
Most of us don't attend law school to get a "practical" education. I would have taken the class just for the prof's lectures. If the emailer really wants to learn about accounting, he should buy "Accounting for Dummies" and spend his time in a bar course--it sounds as if he might need the extra help.
So is Loyola the third best LS in Chicago or isn't it?
4 8 15 16 23 42
Clearly if the Dean's daughters use language of a character that he feels compelled not to be "shocked" thereby, then he clearly is a douchebag as a father. Therefore, not qualified to be a dean.
There once was a law firm named Schulte,
That ought to be feeling quite guilty.
They make CWT
Look like a great place to be,
Yet to their lawyers they have no loyalty.
--Sir Frederick B. Limerick
(circa 2009)
ELIE there needs to be an article dedicated to comment #5. Do it, do it now!!!
26 - NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
14-DY has had one of these town hall meetings every semester since 2006. This guy didn't really spur any action on behalf of the administration. Do you honestly think that DY isn't keenly aware that the school has dropped 20 spots in the USNWR ranking?
this is just an extra town hall--i'm guessing people might actually show up to this one?
29,
I'm more interested in the study cited there, "Death from Electrocution During Autoerotic Practice: Case Report and Review of the Literature." That is worthy of close inspection. :)
The Dean must be confused. The students pay him. He does not pay the students. His job is to make sure the professors teach the subject-matter and to address concerns and problems. His job is not to chastise or to instruct students about protocol. If I have a problem with my shopping experience at Wal-mart, I'll e-mail or blog about it how I see fit. Same with law school. This guy is in a service industry and doesn't seem to know it. He should be thanking the law student for making him aware of a major problem.
28 that was awful. Didn't even have the right rhythm. Surely you can do better. Lamelamelame.
Do you know the Muffin Man, who lives on Drury lane?
33 - Best of luck in the real world with that attitude.
some people, like Dean yellen, have no sense of humor. yesterday's posts were the funniest comments I've even seen.
Wal-mart has a 30-day return policy. Plenty of time to return a defective product. Similarly, students can drop classes in the first two weeks of a semester. Plenty of time to get a feel for the professor.
Students can transfer to another school after first year and get a JD from the second school. Plenty of time that first year to get a feel for the law school and the administration.
Was this student voicing his critiques throughout the past 3 years? Probably not.
He is like one of those cheap bastards at a restaurant who eats the entire meal, then complains that it was "too cold" and wants his money back.
Someone squeezed all the life out of these kids at Loyola. And unless movies and TV have lied to me, it's a crusty, bitter old dean!
I'm not busy enough, I guess, this week. I've been reading this tread. Many years ago, during my 3rd year at UVA, I took a course with a simply awful visiting professor. Dumping the course was not an option at that that time. (We weren't allowed to, and the professor missed like 3 of the first weeks due to transportation difficulties.) He was in Washington. UVA.
I had always had good experiences with visiting professors. We had one guy from Covington & Burling who was so good in tax, and such a great teacher, that he stands out as one of my best professors in a good school.
But this guy was horrible. When he was able to deal with his "transportation issues", the course was all over the place. It was supposed to be Corporate Finance or some other thing. (If I knew then what I knew now, there would be no way I would sign up for a finance class taught from somebody from Washington-- how stupid is that!.)
At the end of this meandering and utterly worthless course, the exam came out of nowhere. I mean nowhere. It had no relationship to anything we were asked to study, and certainly nothing about what the teacher spoke of. I remember our class of 3L's looking at each other during the exam with strange looks, each wondering what planet this came from.
Unlike the guy at Layola, immediately after the exam, I went up to the Dean's office. I basically told him that people were going to fail this exam and jeopardize their graduations if something was not done. Subsequently, I learned that others had done the same thing. In private, the Dean was surprised (one would think he would have had a better grasp on things) and said he would investigate.
So I understand what the guy from Layola was saying. It strikes me that he took exactly the wrong approach.
33 - Don't think you would be so quick to act like an a-hole to Wal-Mart employees if it were difficult, if not impossible, to shop somewhere else if you were asked to leave the store and never come back.
Otherwise, good analogy.
Blowjob incident? Blwojob incident??? WCL? WTF???! Tell me more. Does everyone know about this but me? Don't tell me the scrubs at Millbank know about this and I don't?
-Disgruntled Partner
20: I agree that Kanne would have turned that into the most boring opinion ever. On the other hand, if Evans got it, comic gold on paper.
5 - It's a shame Judge Kozinski couldn't sit in on that case. It would have been awesome if he could have found and cited his own prior art.
why would a person say anything about their daughters in an email that will most assuredly end up in ATL?
@17, the prof's name was in the original letter written by the 3L.
"Bridge year"? That sounds like one of O-bomb's plan to help idiots who are underwater on their homes.
Dean John Corkery at The John Marshall School of Trial Practice and Procedure would have never mentioned his great-great-great-great granddaughters in an email that he knew would be leaked to a national legal tabloid.
John Marshall > Loyola.
i bet said student is going to make a great attorney with his penchant for sending out retarded emails and then recanting the next day.
actors who LOVE that sort of thing in the real world:
-other counsel
-courts
-clients
good thing he's at loyola and won't get a job.
i bet said student is going to make a great attorney with his penchant for sending out retarded emails and then recanting the next day.
actors who LOVE that sort of thing in the real world:
-other counsel
-courts
-clients
good thing he's at loyola and won't get a job.
Dean John Corkery at The John Marshall School of Trial Practice and Procedure would have never mentioned his great-great-great-great granddaughters in an email that he knew would be leaked to a national legal tabloid.
John Marshall > Loyola.
Estoppel,
Estoppel estoppel estoppel. Estoppel estoppel; estoppel estoppel estoppel. Estoppel estoppel estoppel.
Estoppel, estoppel estoopel.
-- Estoppel
The Internet is a kind of hell!
With UVA's B+ mean, I assume that by "fail," 40 meant "receive a B-."
I have to say, I really think the Dean handled this situation in the best possible way. He managed to resolve the conflict without totally insulting the offending student and without abandoning the professor.
LOL - saying you didn't get a job because you took the wrong LOYOLA accounting class is like a 500 pound woman saying she can't find a date because of her hairstyle. Look in the mirror and you'll realize that Loyola graduates DO NOT GET "REAL" LAW JOBS AT ALL in this or any other economy.
LOL - are we forgetting that a Loyola law degree is WORTHLESS regardless of what classes you take? That's like a 500lb woman complaining that she can't get a date because Supercuts did a bad job on her hair.
31 -- I appreciate your pointing out the fact that Dean Yellen has held Town Hall Meetings every semester since 2006. Having attended some, I can say from experience the number of students who actually attend and speak up at these meetings is sadly very low. Yet, as a student at Loyola, I know that my peers have far more to say and that they'd like discussed than the numbers at these meetings indicate, and I'm willing to bet that the attendance on Tuesday will be more than any of the past 6 town halls combined. It's sad that it took a blog post to move the student body out of its own apathy.
As a 3L about to graduate, there are not even enough words for me to express how upsetting I find this entire situation. Loyola Chicago is a fantastic law school and one that has served me very well. There are more than a few amazing individuals at Loyola who serve the students in a variety of different roles -- administrators, faculty, and staff. Moreover, there are plenty of truly amazing individuals who are currently attending Loyola Chicago as students. It is sad that some of the worst and most embarrassing posts came from within the Loyola community, and I, for one, think those individuals should be ashamed of themselves. There are plenty of administrators at Loyola with open doors who would welcome feed back, but instead, many chose to hide behind anonymous comments rather than do something constructive and actually discuss their opinions.
56-57:
I beg to differ. Whether you think that the only "real" law jobs are those at mega-alcoholic-cokehead-divorcee firms is irrelevant.
Illinois Att. Gen. is a Loyola alum, as are Dick Devine, several Dist. Ct. judges, IL Sup. Ct. justices, and countless senators, representatives, etc.
True, a JD from Loyola isn't a guarantee of success. But plenty of intelligent graduates with determination, skill, and good networking skills will run circles around some half-ass hack graduate of a "prestigious" law school who believes that his degree is a substitute for diligence and hard work. Those who underestimate graduates from Loyola (or many fourth-tier schools) will end up bitter, depressed, and alone. They will be 50, still have a tiny dick and no social skills, and petting their cats alone at home after their third spouses dump their pathetic asses.
THE INTERNET IS A SORT OF HELL
welcome to the jungle, jim
please, this is a catholic forum...the internet is more like purgatory
LAW SCHOOL DEANS:
All of your schools will eventually end up on ATL because of something you, one of your dumber professors, or one of your idiot students have done. DON'T freak out; nobody will remember in 6 months.
What the Loyola Dean has done is the perfect example of how to handle it (except for mentioning his daughters).
Agree with 42. More info plz.
26 nailed it.
As did 47.
I'm a little pissed that this whole event arose from a class taught by a GREAT professor.
Shouldn't Loyola students/grads/alums be a little more perturbed about a certain conlaw professor (y'all know who Im talking about...)?
Devine went to Northwestern for law school, Loyola undergrad.
56/57- Loyola's career services leaves something to be desired. But there are plenty of Loyola students with "real" law jobs, the degree is not worthless. I assume this 500 lb woman you are referring to is your girlfriend?
68 = loyola law admin
You're right...Devine did go to NW.
Did he graduate with Jerry Springer?
54, it wasn't a B+ mean when I was there.
haha 33 - funny,
except the law school has the unfortunate responsibility of turning children into adults,
which does indeed mean not catering to their every whim.
28, that's a shitty limerick.
So some TTT student from a TTT school, unable to find a job because of his TTT credentials, is pissed off at his TTT school, looks for a lame reason and demands a refund? Are you fucking kidding me?
So some TTT student from a TTT school, unable to find a job because of his TTT credentials, is pissed off at his TTT school, looks for a lame reason and demands a refund? Are you fucking kidding me?
So, some egomaniac from a T1 school can't read two sentences that state "After submitting a comment it may take several minutes to appear. Please only submit your comment once."?
68 - Loyola's career services are a JOKE. I hear that there are plenty of unemployed/underemployed alumni from previous years, not to mention the oblivion that's coming in May.
77--I'll agree that Loyola's career services dept, well, sucks. However, most grads get their jobs through networking (with adjunct profs., alum events, friends, etc.). To say that there are many unemployed alumni from previous years doesn't say too much for those people.
Unless you attend a top 20 school, you aren't guaranteed a "big law" job after graduation.
People need to get over their sense of entitlement. A degree does not equal a job. The lackies in career services aren't supposed to hold your hand and pray with you until you gain meaningful employment. I'd like to see these grads' job search strategies (or their GPAs?).
That said, this year is really going to suck and I wish career services would hold my hand until I get a job...
man its grad school. suck it up and learn how to learn or drop the hell out. silver spoon lawstudents like that think they are entitled everything. earn it kid
78---Haha. "Unless you attend a top 20 school, you aren't guaranteed a 'big law' job after graduation."
You need to have a conversation with 75 to 80% of people at my Top 20 school who do not get BigLaw jobs.
You meant to say "unless you attend a Top 10 school..."
Oh yeah, all you people who go to schools ranking from 11-25, need to shut the hell up when it comes to ANY prestige chatter. There is very, very, very little that separates you from law students at Loyola or schools similarly situated.
If you go to a Top 10, chances are you have a bit of right to brag about it. Otherwise, shut the hell up.
--80 (Top 20 3L)
Well, maybe "top five" this year?
I'm guessing those 3Ls who've had their offers rescinded will be lining up for jobs with the state's attorney like the rest of us?
82--Upwards of 50% of my 3L class would kill for a job at the state's attorney office after graduation this year. The others have jobs at large or medium-sized regional firms which the prestige-horrors on this site scoff at. Most, who do end up in large markets, go to work at midlevel firms. About 15% of my class will actually end up in bona fide BigLaw jobs. Of those 15%, I bet 2% make partner.
Bottom line, if you are a from a school not in the Top 10, you have no right to claim the "prestige" pass to success.
--Top 20 3L
I'm at a T4 school and I'm working for Skadden NYC this summer - all you T10 chumps can suck it.
AMEN 81...
Prestige goes a long way, but busting your ass (and possibly kissing ass) gets you to the finish line.
I remember this prick with whom I took the LSAT. He went to Yale for undergrad, huge sense of entitlement. I went to an average state university & did quite well.
After he received countless waitlists and/or rejections from all of his top choices (including Loyola), he gave up trying to get accepted to ANY law school.
I did accept his humbled congratulations, however. I did thoroughly relish the fact that he wore his "lucky" Yale sweatshirt to the testing facility.
Not to discount the fact that the "prestigious" law schools attract some top talent, but a lot of those grads can simply wipe their asses with the degree.
84--Since you are likely the only one from a T4 working at Skadden NYC this summer, you have just given yourself away. Or if you are lying, you have made the real only T4 summer associate look like a douche.
Idiot.
Loyola student here:
1) The employment opportunities BLOW. If you don't get a job at OCI as a 2L, you are virtually guaranteed to be unemployed at graduation. The unemployed group makes up at least 70% of the class, and maybe 80%. I don't know a single 3L who has a job at a small firm or state government. When I saw the title of this post yesterday, I was sure it was going to be a 3L pissed about being unemployed.
2) To give credit where it is due, and notwithstanding #1 above, somehow we placed 6 3Ls in federal clerkships. My guess is that this is a combination of two things. First, that firms hired their biggest classes ever when we were 2Ls, so as of September 2008 the number of people with biglaw jobs was at an all-time high. Therefore, there was less competition for clerkships. Second, career services hired someone whose only job is to help potential clerks, and people I know who applied for clerkships seemed to like her.
3) For those at the top of the class, the opportunities are solid. I know several 3Ls who got no-offered last fall (through no fault of their own) yet found biglaw jobs or fed govt jobs. Top 10% is good to go, top 15% and you should be okay (in a normal economy), and anything less you are screwed.
4) The professor involved in this scandal has a very good reputation. However, the student may have had a legitimate gripe about the content of the accounting class.
To add...
I regularly seek the advice of another friend of mine. He graduated from Northern KY U law school--at the top of his class, fighting a "C-curve" the entire three years.
He's now a partner at a well-respected midsize-large firm. Prestige factor = 0; Hard work = 100%
I agree with 81. Maybe it is the fact that I have never been to a "TTT" law school, so I don't know how bad it can be. But it is not that good up here either.
Top19 2L
87--Also a Loyola 3L.
This year is definitely an anomaly. You are absolutely right--most of us do not yet have jobs; and you cite the correct statistics for the "big law" offers. As bad as our career services dept. is, grads in years past have had little trouble finding jobs. Loyola has a respectable reputation in the legal community in Chicago, and its alumni network is quite strong. This year aside, most of our grads land solid jobs. Those that don't either: 1) are in the bottom 10%; 2) don't even bother to network; or 3) think that career services dept is comprised of "headhunters" whose sole purpose is to provide each 3L a job as a prize for graduation.
here is a comment I hope gets back to the dean:
If you charge people 120K for a degree that does not get them a decent job, and then when things get especially bad you try to help them out with a "bridge year" for another 30-40k, you are not doing them a favor, you are raping them in the ass.
Thank you for giving this your attention.
Do they really charge tuition for the bridge year?
If so, that is HILARIOUS!! Why the hell would anyone do that? Surely, this is not the case. It just can't be the case.
92
not sure if they do, but UCLA is. If Loyola doesn't kudos to them. Somehow I have very little faith in TTT schools, however.
91
This is crazy. The solution to not having a job is not a "bridge year" program where you take on more debt through tuition! The deans of institutions doing this are thiefs and should be ashamed of themselves. Really, this is pathetic.
If you don't have a job, go do Teach for America for a year or do a one year masters degree, so that you can actually learn something else. Or just take another loan to live on and go to Africa for a year and volunteer. Or go tend bar in Jamaica.
DO NOT TAKE ON $40k of debt at the Loyola bridge program!!!!!!!!!
How sad that schools have this little respect for their freaked out 3Ls!!!!!
I fucked several dudes up the ass who went to NU, Chicago, Kent , Depaul and JMLS...they all jizzed in their hand after I unloaded in their asses doggie style with my big dick...fuck ya. -Loyola Chicago Law Stud Alumni
78 - Law school isn't just a graduate school. It is a professional school. You don't go there to learn how to flip burgers and ponder the finer things in life with a degree in philosophy. How should 25-year-olds who never held a real job know how to network, sell themselves, etc.? They would be better off back in the days when becoming a lawyer meant becoming an apprentice. At least they would know from the very beginning that they have not a prayer of a chance to practice law without taking on crushing amounts of debt. It is shameful that law schools, including career services staff and the faculty, don't go out of their way to secure a job for every graduate.
90 - They are supposed to educate students how to be head hunters themselves, and they fail to do that miserably. Putting ads in the papers works far better than using many of the career services departments.
96--are you kidding?
A person has to be a complete driveling idiot with no social skills if he/she has made it through law school and doesn't know how to "network."
"Networking" is simply showing up to law school events (there are usually alums there--just don't get drunk off of your ass), meeting with alums from your undergrad (duh? think that none of them are lawyers or know lawyers?? did you join the alumni network?), meeting people outside of law school (I know a person who got a job from an attorney who works out at his gym!), talking with adjunct profs. after class (many of them are partners at firms!!!), joining groups that are in line with your legal interests (Health Lawyers Assn, etc.), linked-in, forming deeper relationships with your professors (many of them are well-connected with the private sector AND keep in contact with law school alums).
This is the real world. It's competitive, and it is brutal. Wake the fuck up!
NOBODY will find a job for you unless you are willing to put forth the effort.
Career services will give you advice on finding a job, but they will not pick out your tie and accompany you to an interview.
Law Schools aren't your parents--they aren't going to continue to wipe your ass (as I'm sure that your mother still does, from the sound of things). Does she still write your name in your underwear???
Actually, you sound like one of those people who simply went to law school to avoid the real world for another three years and continue to mooch off of your parents.
Forgot to mention...
I've got a stack of business cards from attorneys I have met at non-law school parties.
Did they GIVE me a job?? No, but I got a couple of interviews. It only takes one successful interview to get a position.
95: Thank God I went to U of I.
I approve of 98.
why didn't this website redact the professor's name? soulless.
At least NU offered 3Ls without employment half-off a LLMs, some of which are useful and a good value at $23k. Unlike what TTTs such as Loyola and UCLA are doing.
DVZ rocks!
Good Lord, the dean actually admits he hired someone to teach an accounting class who had never taught it before?? The Dean is the one who should be apologizing and perhaps moving on to another career. If true, it's irresponsible. Accounting, if done right, even for law students, is a terribly difficult subject and should really only be taught by someone from the B-school who knows what they are doing.
I don't like gunners any more than the next guy - but this one had it right and he should have stuck to his guns.
@5 - the Posner opinion sucks. There doesn't appear to be any evidence that the problems borosilicate glass is known to address (oven-proof, for example) were known to be problems in the art to which the patentee applied it. "One can see how those properties...." Yes, in hindsight, one can see that borosilicate glass is better than soda lime glass. But there was nothing in the art at the time the invention was made that would indicate that there was any need to move from soda lime glass to borosilicate glass. There is no predictability that borosilicate would work better as a sexual aid than does soda lime glass.
I want all of my tuition that I paid to attend "Washington College of Law at American University".
Very few of the classes I took there were worth paying for.
And then I have the embarrassment of admitting I was dumb enough to attend.
The school is nothing but a support group for those headed to legal aid.
We love Loyola. Both in LA and in Chicago. They are our reach schools.
-Latham Hiring Committee
107--best comment on thread
I totally agree that these second- and third-tier schools deserve to be bashed. They really are total crap.
However, I think we're missing the point.
This kid - like a lot of others at these crap "schools" - paid for an education and never received it. That's largely the reason we bash these glorified correspondence schools - we know that they hawk products that they never deliver. (I know we're fond of faulting 22-year-olds for not knowing better, but what about the shit-clown lawyers teaching at these clown schools?)
The profession should really pressure the ABA to reel in its current rubber-stamp practices for accrediting these sham institutions. It would save poor schlubs like this from being taken for $75K and thin the ranks of our already over-licensed profession.
Yes, our profession is over-licensed...
Judging by his comment, I'm guessing that 109 will probably lose his at some point in his career.
Especially when you consider the fact that graduates from such "crap" schools are the attorneys employed at most states' attorney disciplinary commissions.
109--congratulations on being the biggest douche bag in the comments.
"shit clown"?
Sounds like Harvard has a strong legal writing program...
Any commenter who doesn't understand why the Loyola dean referred to his adolescent daughters in the letter isn't worthy of his T1 credentials.
He was comparing that particular student, and most of you on this board, to immature, foul-mouthed teenagers.
Shit clowns.
Nice,
I took a class w/ Dean Yellen when he was at Hofstra - Crim Pro. I actually wanted a refund. It's a nice surprise when a professor cancels a class - but when he cancels close to 1/3 to 1/2 of the classes you think you're getting ripped off -- mom & dad aren't paying for school, I am. He was nice enough but only ever spoke about his clerkship w/ Judge Mikva. I had to learn Crim Pro from a Nutshell. What a waste.
Nice,
I took a class w/ Dean Yellen when he was at Hofstra - Crim Pro. I actually wanted a refund. It's a nice surprise when a professor cancels a class - but when he cancels close to 1/3 to 1/2 of the classes you think you're getting ripped off -- mom & dad aren't paying for school, I am. He was nice enough but only ever spoke about his clerkship w/ Judge Mikva. I had to learn Crim Pro from a Nutshell. What a waste.
Dean Yellen is a nice guy, and was very helpful today during the "Town Hall" meeting in explaining why Loyola is doing poorly. It turns out that it's all the fault of US News, other "liar" law schools, and the people who comment on this forum. So this was all just a big misunderstanding. Loyola is really doing great, no, better than great, and all the fuss was for nothing. Thanks for clearing that up Old Yeller. For a second there, I thought it might actually be Loyola's own fault. Who knew?
Actually I think the reason he mentioned his daughters is because the student who sent the original letter has a small child. And some of the comments on that post made incredibly nasty comments not only about the student, but about his daughter. It takes a particularly sick and pathetic internet troll to talk shit about someone's little kid, but leave it to the ATL posters.