That full year deferral option was in the original letter explaining the deferred start dates. This is not new.

Mayer Brown smells bad.

Wow, this is tantamount to eliminating bonuses. How can you bill 2100 hours when there is no work to do?

This is new...

The original letter (at least according to http://lawfirmchaos.blogspot.com/ ) stated that the associates had to obtain a public interest position or a position with a corporate client to qualify for the stipend. Now you can get the stipend if you defer "for any reason."

This could have been written better though.

I find the various promissory estoppel arguments questionable but nonetheless interesting. You need a promise that is clear and unambiguous on its terms, which a law firm offer obviously is. You need reasonable and foreseeable reliance. Again, this obviously is met. The last point is injury, and this is the problem. Associates at law firms are considered "at-will" employees. In other words, no employment contract. No contract, no promissory estoppel. Case closed.

The Management Committee approves of the appointment of a Management Committee.

IE We will only be giving bonuses to 2% of associates next year but we didn't have the stones to say that.

Screw you, 6, you stupid ass lobster. Go troll on blackbook.

4--

But how can we make bricks without straw?!?!?!

Isn't this the firm that used to be Rowe & Mawe? When did it change its name?

6 - A rescinded offer is different than being fired after one day of employment. For example, a laid-off employee is allowed to extend his health care through COBRA (and currently the government will pick-up 65% of your premiums if you have been laid off - not if your offer is rescinded). I would rather be fired on day one then have an offer rescinded because society has created a safety net for laid-off workers, but not for rescinded offers.

10,
solid clay

Mayer Brown - please take your shitty partners back. They are not making any money for us.

-Latham

Unlike some other firms (and the totally naive Dow is Up Guy), the new management at Mayer Brown was not fooled by the March bear market rally that led to a slight uptick in the Dow. The Dow is below 7900 today, and will continue to trend down. The bottom has not been reached. The demand for legal services will not improve until the second quarter of 2010, if then. The firm will save some money, since very few lawyers will bill 2100 hours this year.

5- that's incorrect. Here is the relevant paragraph from the original letter (circa 3 weeks ago):

We will also offer Class of 2009 associates the opportunity to defer their start dates for an
additional period of up to one year, while continuing to receive a stipend of $5,000 per month
plus health benefits. Only a limited number of additional deferral slots are available. Class of
2009 associates who wish to defer their start dates beyond January 2010 will be offered a series
of later start dates throughout the year. You may use this opportunity to travel, spend time with
family or loved ones, learn a new language, volunteer in your community, or do anything else
that you would find valuable.

Mayer Brown is a leading global law firm with offices in key business centers across the Americas, Asia and Europe. We have approximately 1,000 lawyers in the Americas, 300 in Asia and 500 in Europe. The firm's Asia presence was enhanced by its 2008 combination with Johnson Stokes & Master, one of the largest and oldest law firms in Asia. This unequalled on-the-ground presence in the world’s leading markets for legal services enables Mayer Brown to offer clients access to local market expertise on a global basis.

Mayer Brown is noted for its commitment to client service and its ability to assist clients with their most complex and demanding legal and business challenges worldwide. The firm serves many of the world’s largest companies, including a significant proportion of the Fortune 100, FTSE 100 and DAX companies and more than half of the world's largest investment banks. Mayer Brown is particularly renowned for its Supreme Court and appellate, litigation, corporate and securities, finance, real estate and tax practices.

JSM was established in 1863 in Hong Kong and has full-service offices in Hong Kong, Mainland China (Beijing, Guangzhou and Shanghai), Thailand (Bangkok) and Vietnam (Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City). JSM has a multinational, multilingual team of 800 staff, including more than 300 lawyers who are qualified in local and international jurisdictions. JSM has been named Hong Kong Law Firm of the Year for the past eight years (2000-2007) by various leading legal publications, including International Financial Law Review, Asian Legal Business and Who’s Who Legal. JSM is also one of the top three foreign law firms in Thailand and Vietnam

Mayer Brown smells like BLUEBERRY FARTS

How long ago was is that the fact that Sidley associates were getting much higher bonuses at approximately the same hours made Mayer adjust its bonuses so you got $20k or so at 2100? Seems like 2005 or 2006.

It seems pretty cheap to try so hard to screw those who actually making a bunch of money for the firm.

[Insert obligatory anti Latham comment here]

or 20k at 2000 previously, #19.

14 - We don't want them back.

I am getting sick and tired of all this jarvis-probing by the firms.

-Scared CLS 3L w/ T50 job

Latham is paying laid off first years bonuses of 50 Geoffrey Dollars if they hit 3000 billables for the year.

19 here, sorry, 21 has it right. Used to be no bonuses until 2100 until the market pressure from Sidley made them switch. Looks like back to the old days.

I am getting sick and tired of all this jarvis-probing by the firms.

-Scared CLS 3L w/ T50 job

As much as it pains me to say this, its true. Mayer Brown makes Kirkland look half way appealing.

N. Wacker Stud

4 - They're just increasing the threshold by 100 hours. It's not like they're going from no threshold to 2100. The people who have absolutely nothing to do won't be close to 2000 anyway (and they'll all eventually be fired). The people who still have work will just have to work a little harder next year.

- Guy who billed over 2100 in Chicago last year

Does anyone know whether if you get deferred for an entire year and work at either a client or a non-profit, after that year, and you come back a year later (Oct. 2010), that you will be a 2nd year associate with a 2nd year associate pay and bonus scale or will start over as a 1st year?

This question probably is applicable for all the firms offering such deal (Skadden, Latham, Piper, Mayer, etc.)

Thank you 17 - now get some new marketing folks in there that can write. Every law firm says the same thing. Our firm pays our marketing folks as much as first years but very few know how to write copy that truly distinguishes us. Well, we had one guy who seemed to have a clue, but he got laid off, of course.

You're all idiots.

-Skadden Sidebar (praying I have a job to go back to)

MB had better reduce its threshold in 2010.

I think that Mayer Browneye just winked at me.

No firm is worse than McDermott.

You're all idiots.

-Skadden Sidebar (praying I have a job to go back to)

When I first heard of these programs I thought they were great, now I'm thinking they're idiotic.

Basically law firms are screwing the people who are working and billing hours out of their raises and bonuses in order to pay people who have done absolutely nothing, to do absolutely nothing. This is nothing short of retarded.

You are all without a doubt, IDIOTS

asslobster

The phone calls that have been going out are doing more than just letting everyone know that they can defer. They are basically telling everyone that they better defer because there isn't going to be any work available in January. I've heard from 10 or so fellow summers and all of them have gotten the same "you probably shouldn't show up" message.

By deferring for 1 year, Mayer Brown will pay me $5000/month.

At 40 hours/week, I would be paid $31.25/hour to do absolutely nothing.

That's still more than what some small firm lawyers make.

Sounds fair to me.

If you're an incoming Mayer Brown first year, and you're reading this: Defer. Do whatever is necessary to keep your job in 2010 or afterwards. Don't pout, don't cry, don't do anything that will make yourself a bigger burden than you already are. There is no work for you. Nobody wants to deal with you right now. If the firm wants you to go away for a year, go away for a year.

Can Mayer Brown be this dumb? They have opened themselves up to lots of reliance actions -- ie promissory estoppel -- over this. Hey Mayer Brown, does Restatement 90 ring a bell?

"A promise which the promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third person and which does induce such action or forbearance is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise."

By deferring for 1 year, Mayer Brown will pay me $5000/month.

At 40 hours/week, I would be paid $31.25/hour to do absolutely nothing.

That's still more than what some small firm lawyers make.

Sounds fair to me.

How much money will the firm save by not giving bonuses to associates who bill between 2000 and 2099 hours this year?

This is a comp cut, btw. Brave new world we're living in.

Basically law firms are screwing the people who are working and billing hours out of their raises and bonuses in order to pay people who have done absolutely nothing, to do absolutely nothing. This is nothing short of retarded.
=========
Gee, you just figuring that out.

Dear 41, you ar a fucking moron. That is all.

38- If you're going to make shit up, why don't you just take it the entire way? Why not just claim you're a partner at V5 firm, and you're in the know.

Jackass.

43: Not very much. This is just screwing over a good percentage of their best workers (many of whom are likely to come in between 2000 and 2099 this year). A first year billing 1500 hours now only makes 25k less than a fourth year billing 2095 hours (whereas absent a freeze and this bonus cut, the spread would have been almost 3x that much). doesn't make a whole lot of sense, whether you look at it from a pay-what-you-are-worth perspective, a cost-savings perspective or an incentive perspective. or any other perspective, for that matter.

43: Not very much. This is just screwing over a good percentage of their best workers (many of whom are likely to come in between 2000 and 2099 this year). A first year billing 1500 hours now only makes 25k less than a fourth year billing 2095 hours (whereas absent a freeze and this bonus cut, the spread would have been almost 3x that much). doesn't make a whole lot of sense, whether you look at it from a pay-what-you-are-worth perspective, a cost-savings perspective or an incentive perspective. or any other perspective, for that matter.

The recession is cruel.

49,
very

If you're an incoming first year at any Firm, you definitely want to reply on this blog if not especially its comments from anonymous posters as the basis for all your career decisions.

If you're an incoming first year at any Firm, you definitely want to rely on this blog if not especially its comments from anonymous posters as the basis for all your career decisions.

47/48 -- I agree with you. If MB is sinking so fast that it cannot afford to pay bonuses tothose billing over 2,000 hours, it is in BIG TROUBLE.

I mean, seriously, an associate billing 2,000 hours is making MB hundreds of thousands in profits in 2009. Think that speaks volumes.

Mayer Brown has awesome clients, especially outside of Chicago. It's NY office, for example, as upwards of 3 associates in its transactional groups.

54 - why do you hate on MB? It's definitely one of the top 30 firms in the midwest.

30, this copy DOES clearly distinguish Mayer Brown. "Mayer Brown" figures prominently in the very first sentence.

"going on a Mayer Brown"

42, 60k / 52 wks / 40hr = $28.85 / hr you idiot.

Less than a starting engineer out of undergrad. Glad law school worked out for you.

Mayer Brown - please take your shitty partners back. They are not making any money for us.

-Latham

A Mayer Brown is an unnatural crack or tear in the skin of the anal canal. Mayer Brown may be noticed by bright red anal bleeding on the toilet paper, sometimes in the toilet. If acute they may cause severe periodic pain after defecation [1] but with chronic fissures pain intensity is often less. Mayer Brown usually extend from the anal opening and are usually located posteriorly in the midline, probably because of the relatively unsupported nature of the anal wall in that location. Fissure depth may be superficial or sometimes down to the underlying sphincter muscle.

It's not about being able to "afford" to pay bonuses. It's about cutting comp, plain and simple. MB is hoping that "market" minimum bonus hours will creep back up to 2100.

If not, who cares? You have too many people now anyway, the people you do have couldn't leave even if they wanted to and the few people you actually want to keep are all going to bill over 2100. Win, win, win.

Mayer Brown is a type of off-colour humour dealing with defecation, urination, flatulence, vomiting and other bodily functions. Public reference to bodily functions is taboo in many cultures. This genre also sees substantial crossover with sexual humour, such as penis jokes.

58, actually you are both wrong. The 60k comes on top of the 10k summer stipend, so it's really $33.65/hr.

Mayer Brown is so brilliant they fired my friend who was on long term disability -- not they have to contribute to their COBRA when my friend has been paying 100%. Great way to save money??

63, you're a bit incorrect. The 10k is an advance, not a stipend. . .

Mayer Brown is so brilliant they fired my friend who was on long term disability -- now they have to contribute to COBRA when my friend has been paying 100%. Great way to save money??

61: the "too many" people are not those who are billing 2000+. How could you ever have too many of them? Despite your assertion and popular belief the lateral market for many of those people (most of whom work in specialized areas that are still busy) is still alive and well, and for the rest, it will rebound along with the economy. If the point is to save money, this is a terrible way of doing it compared to other options.

65, i think it's an advance in nyc and a stipend in chicago

Hope they start the first years soon; remember flirting heavily with a super-cute Summer last year and hoping he starts soon!

-67- Do you actually think Mayer Brown cares about the people billing less than 2100? Those people aren't in specialized areas that are still busy. Yeah, there are a handful of areas that are still busy, but in those areas (like bankruptcy) the people that are busy are billing well over 2100.

And, no, MB really, really, really isn't worried about being understaffed when the economy eventually rebounds. If nothing else, they'll be able to throw all their deferred associates back onto their deals.

-61

61/70: I think you are missing the point here. The only distinction here is how you treat people who bill between 2000 and 2100 hours. Those associates are profitable for the firm, even with the 20k bonus. Why on earth would you target them to save money instead of the tons of other ways you could do so? I'm not disputing that they don't care about associates who bill less than 2100 (this move supports that); I'm just saying it is an idiotic move. And everyone billing 2000 or more is in either a countercyclical practice area (like bankruptcy) or a specialized practice area. Either way, there IS a lateral market for them out there.

You must be a law student or first year to think that these people billing b/w 2000 and 2100 (in 2009, which may go down as the worst year in modern law firm history) can be easily replaced with deferred associates.

71 - I'd be careful before you start casting assertions about who is or isn't a law student, especially when you're making assertions like "everyone billing 2000 or more is in either a countercyclical practice area (like bankruptcy) or a specialized practice area)." I don't know where you work, but things in the city aren't nearly that bad. There are a lot of FBUs in litigation and some in corporate who are having no problem making 2000.

As far as replacing current associates with deferred associates goes, we both know the life-cycle of an associate in a firm like MB is short and they don't want every associate to make partner anyway. With the collapse of the lateral market (especially in corporate - MB's bread and butter), they need people to leave (voluntarily or involuntarily) to avoid having way too many associates when the deferred associates eventually start.

I'm not going to understate the talent gap between a first year and a seasoned associate, it's certainly large. That being said, that gap isn't really the point. The point is that a firm like MB has too many people in the first place. If the people who barely make 2000 hours want to believe they're much more important than they are and act like petulant children when they don't get a bonus, that's their choice. MB will simply give the work to associates who have excess capacity (of whom there are many), most of whom are just as talented as the hypothetical associates that are leaving. When things pick up, the deferred associates will fill in, just like first years always do.

Poster 38 is absolutely correct in his comments.

72: corporate never has been, and never will be, MB's bread and butter - I'm not sure why anyone even vaguely familiar with the firm would ever make that statement. Also, what "city" are you referring to? It certainly isn't Chicago, which has 50% of the US associates. And as for the last assertion in your first paragraph, take a look at Q1 utilization numbers and get back to me.

I don't dispute anything in your second paragraph, but what does that have to do with the point at hand? Surely you would agree that anyone on pace to bill 2000 or more hours in 2009 isn't one of the bottom 10% you would want to get rid of (incidentally the bottom 10% have already been fired between November and last month). Why would you force out the small group of people who partners obviously trust enough to give work to in these lean times?

Your third paragraph completely ignores the realities of how work is doled out. Not all associates are created equal, and if what you said was true, retention of midlevel and senior associates wasn't a big deal, NO firm would be paying these bonuses. But the do, and now MB is clearly below market, especially with respect to its competitors. Or perhaps you think bonuses should be slashed for 2000-plus billers at every firm now, which is fine if that's your opinion, but I still think it is a stupid for the reasons mentioned above. (and before you respond yet again with the supposed excess of associates at MB, even after the 10% firings, you might want to look up MB's leverage vis a vis its competitors even before those firings - you might be surprised).

72: corporate never has been, and never will be, MB's bread and butter - I'm not sure why anyone even vaguely familiar with the firm would ever make that statement. Also, what "city" are you referring to? It certainly isn't Chicago, which has 50% of the US associates. And as for the last assertion in your first paragraph, take a look at Q1 utilization numbers and get back to me.

I don't dispute anything in your second paragraph, but what does that have to do with the point at hand? Surely you would agree that anyone on pace to bill 2000 or more hours in 2009 isn't one of the bottom 10% you would want to get rid of (incidentally the bottom 10% have already been fired between November and last month). Why would you force out the small group of people who partners obviously trust enough to give work to in these lean times?

Your third paragraph completely ignores the realities of how work is doled out. Not all associates are created equal, and if what you said was true, retention of midlevel and senior associates wasn't a big deal, NO firm would be paying these bonuses. But the do, and now MB is clearly below market, especially with respect to its competitors. Or perhaps you think bonuses should be slashed for 2000-plus billers at every firm now, which is fine if that's your opinion, but I still think it is a stupid for the reasons mentioned above. (and before you respond yet again with the supposed excess of associates at MB, even after the 10% firings, you might want to look up MB's leverage vis a vis its competitors even before those firings - you might be surprised).

Such a short-sighted money grab by the MB partners. Paying below-market compensation is sure-fire way to anger the good associates, who are still very busy. This move, combined with the salary freeze, amounts to a substantial salary cut.

Consider this: Fourth year associate billing 2000 last year would have gotten 210K base + 25K bonus, or 235K total. Now a fourth year associate with the same billables will receive 185K and no bonus. This is a 50K compensation difference, and represents over a 20% cut.

74/75 - You sound like you're closer to MB than me, but my understanding is that their corporate/finance side (together with related practice groups, like corporate tax) had been appreciably bigger than any other group up until the crash (and remains bigger). Is that incorrect?

With respect to your second paragraph, I don't dispute that people billing 2000-2100 won't be in the bottom 10% and that those are who you would prefer to lose, but that's not really my point. Other than the truly bad associates and the truly great associates (both groups being fairly small), most associates at a place like MB are going to be fairly competent. It's those associates that generally fall within the 2000-2100 band and whose hours can be fairly easily redistributed among one another.

With respect to your third paragraph, I would just say that it varies by the firm. MB is uniquely situated because their corporate/finance practice fell off a cliff. I don't dispute that the 2100 bonus number is below market. I just don't think MB cares. My guess is they figure their leakage rate is going to be low enough as compared to their utilization that it's worth taking the hit (in fact, I think they view losses as a feature, not a bug). The people they really care about (the superstars, the bankruptcy lawyers, the tax controversy lawyers, the other in-demand specialists) will mostly bill over 2100 anyway, so I doubt they're particularly worried (again, I'm speculating, but it seems like a reasonable inference).

Dear incoming MB 1st years,

If you take a year off, you can work for us. To make room for you guys, we will fire our remaining first years and defer all of our incoming associates. We like to take all unproductive things from MB, not just shitty unproductive partners.

-Dave Gordon, MP of Latham NY

77: MB is different insofar as they have separate corporate and finance departments (both smaller than litigation). It is true that some of the finance specialties that were pretty bread and butter are dead, but I think many of the associates in those areas have either been re-tooled or laid off.

I would agree with you on your second point were this an 'ordinary' year and the chunk of the bell curve fell between 2000-2100. However, this year that bell curve is shifted way to the low end of the spectrum (probably closer to 1600-1700 I would guess), so the effect (this year at least) is to punish some of the best workers.

I definitely agree with you that it appears MB doesn't care, and they are probably thinking exactly along the lines you mention. I just think it is shortsighted, disproportionately effects their better associates, and isn't a particularly good way of saving money compared to the other options.

@38, 2008 litigation summer here, I got no call at all.

80 - what office were you in?