Nationwide Start Date Watch: Winston & Strawn, WilmerHale, Baker & McKenzie, and Sonnenschein Delay Start Dates
More firms are pushing back the start dates of incoming first year associates. This weekend, we learned that Winston & Strawn has pushed back start dates to January 19th, 2010. Deferred associates will receive an additional $15,000 on top of their $10,000 bar stipend. The firm is also picking up health care for its incoming associates, starting in September.
We learned today that Baker & McKenzie has also pushed back start dates to January 2010. As we understand it, the firm is not offering any additional stipend other than what they normally pay out for bar expenses.
WilmerHale also announced a start date push back. According to a firm-wide memo:
As is our normal practice, we will have more than one start date. A portion of the class will start on January 20 and the remainder will start on March 17. To determine the group that will start on each date, Legal Personnel and Recruiting will work with department and practice group leaders to balance the stated interests of the incoming associates with the various needs of departments, practice groups and offices.
Those starting in January 2010 will receive a $10,000 deferral stipend on top of a $5,000 bar stipend, while the March 2010 first years will receive a $15,000 bar stipend.
But WilmerHale is also encouraging associates to take a full year off:
We also informed our incoming associates that they may defer their start dates until the fall of 2010 for a stipend in the amount of $75,000. This deferral is entirely at the option of the individual incoming associate and is not tied to his or her ability to obtain a pro bono or other public service position.
The WilmerHale deferral stipend is right at the top of the Latham-led market for these optional year-long programs. But its stipend for people being forced to start in January or March is a little on the low end.
Baker, Winston, and WilmerHale are announcing their programs late in the game. We’ll have to see if the delay puts incoming associates heading to the these firms at a disadvantage in terms of post-bar exam options.
After the jump, we check in on Sonnenschein’s late breaking, long-term deferral.
Above the Law has been able to confirm that Sonnenschein pushed back the start date for nine of its 29 incoming first years until January 2011. But the firm is not offering these associates a deferral stipend commensurate with what other firms have offered for a year-long deferral. According to a firm wide memo, it is not even clear that these nine incoming first years will have jobs with Sonnenschein in 2011:
Based on our most recent needs assessment, we are unable to assign start dates to 9 of the 29 associates originally scheduled to join in the fall. At present, we anticipate being able to have these candidates join the firm by January 2011. While we recognize the impact of this decision, in the current economic environment, it is essential that we match our current workforce with our anticipated work load so that there are opportunities for all of our associates to be fully productive. We will pay those associates a $10,000 stipend and reimburse them for their bar review and bar examination expenses. In addition, the firm will work with each of these affected individuals to assist them in searching for an interim or alternative position.
Update (3:35): Firm sources clarified that the $10,000 is in addition to normal bar expenses.
Not only will these incoming Sonnenschein people have to start looking later than classmates heading to firms that announced earlier, these people will have to try to find a paying position while they are competing against other recent graduates who can work for free thanks to their firms’ deferral stipend. The nine associates who thought they were heading to Sonnenschein this fall probably feel like they took a “wrong turn at Albuquerque” and ended up at Thacher Proffitt.
The news is marginally better for the other 20 incoming Sonnenschein first years:
Sonnenschein has 29 candidates for first-year associate positions. Each practice group recently has made an assessment of the needs of their groups as a whole, and in light of the staffing in each particular office. While some of the 29 candidates will join the firm as initially anticipated in the fall of 2009, the start date of others will be affected. To the extent that there is any disruption, the firm will work with those individuals to explore placements with clients, public interest fellowships, and community service opportunities, or other opportunities, depending on the candidate’s interest.For 20 of the 29, start dates have been assigned individually based on practice group and office needs. For some, we have been able to assign start dates ranging from September 2009 through Fall 2010, with most starting by January 2010. For these first-years with assigned start dates, in addition to reimbursing bar review fees, bar examination fees, and moving expenses (if applicable), the firm also will provide health care insurance as of June 1, 2009. The firm will also pay these individuals a $5,000 stipend. In addition, for any individual whose start date commences after October 2009 and before February 2010, the firm will offer an interest-free loan of up to $10,000, depending on need, to be deducted from future pay.
Sonnenschein is also shortening its summer program to eight weeks.
Memo to law firms: associates really need to know when they are starting, the sooner the better.
Check out our updated Start Date chart here.
Earlier: Is Latham Setting Precedent?
Thacher Has More Bad News For Its First Year Associates: “We’re going to need that $10K back”
Prior ATL coverage of start dates
(161) Comments
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First at HLS!
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pretzels, thirdsty, etc etc.
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What Sonnenschein offices are effected?
Count on Sonnenschein to ALWAYS lead the market with the shittiest ways to treat their associates and incoming associates.
I am SOOOOO happy that I turned their offer down. After last spring, when they rescinded offers to a bunch of incoming Charlotte summers, I didn't think they could stoop lower. Well, they just proved that they could.
This firm should not be allowed to recruit in the Top 14. Seriously.
May the Internet record forever the shittiness of this Sonnenschein firm.
Prudent moves from firms that realize March's uptick in the Dow was a classic bear market rally, that the fundamentals of the economy remain weak, and there is little chance of an economic recovery in 2009.
75K? I am going to travel the world
What's the over/under on GP 3Ls crying about not having a start date yet? 15? 25? Either way, I'll take the over.
9- I'll take the over, and contribute to the tally.
WTF, GP. S a D.
"Memo to law firms: associates really need to know when they are starting, the sooner the better."
Memo to Above the Law.....law firms don't give a shit!
Associates will start when/if they are needed and not a day before. Many law firms are still overstaffed, especially in New York, and they have their pick of experienced attorneys who are on the street. They don't care about incoming first years. They care about profits now and not about training first years who are not needed.
Good luck if you are in the Class of 2009 or 2010, because you are screwed.
9,
GP 3L here. I predict there will be 25+ posts of GP people crying, but it will only be 3-5 people. I mean, obviously we all want a start date as soon as possible, but most of us are mature adults that realize these decisions have million dollar impact.
That said, OMG GOODWIN TELL US TELL US TELL US
Wow, Sonnenschein has just self-elected itself as the worst of all. If the legal industry was a body, that firm could only be the ASSHOLE.
"Good luck if you are in the Class of 2009 or 2010, because you are screwed."
Even if you're supposed to be starting at a good law firm?
DLA hasn't told us anything yet either.
more faeces
what other firms are paying more for delaying the start date?
Everybody sing along with me...A DEFERRED START DATE IS A DEFERRED LAYOFF.
11=scumbag
Can anybody confirm if Latham will be doing another round of stealth layoffs during the upcoming review period?
18 is right. These are rescissions / layoffs in disguise (but not much of a disguise).
Only 10K until 2011, and no sure job offer? It sounds like Sonnenschein is trying to disguise rescinding offers to 9 screwed first years! They should at least be honest about what they are doing...although I suppose anyone gullible enough to think that they have a job in 2011 should not be a lawyer anyway.
11=Class of 2011.
Guess what? You're screwed too, since 2009 and 2010 will be finally starting when you're supposed to have a job.
Winston folk should be happy - health care in September is a nice touch.
6 - These start dates and more will be forever shrined in a spreadsheet on my blog which I cannot post a link for here because ATL will ban me forever.
Texas bar results have been released.
12 -- another GP 3L here. My concern with not knowing the start date is that, at this point in the season, it begins to look as if perhaps GP is in worse shape than other firms that have announced. None of us, at any firm, thinks we'll be starting in Sept. or Oct. So how bad is it at the firm if they cannot even be sure January 2010 is going to be okay?
If only a few firms had deferred and "normal" start dates were an actual option some firms considered, the silence would not be a bad sign -- it would mean they were not sure whether they'd have to defer or not. But normal start dates are not an option. So the silence seems to imply that they are deciding between deferring, or rescinding...
props to winston and wilmerhale.
lol @ Sonnenschein wtf
How are they mutually exclusive?
Please remove 2, the reference to Elie's "monstrous jowls" was racist and uncalled for.
totally disagree 27. Check ATL or lawfirmchaos blog to see the number of "good" firms still offering starts in 2009. Normal-ish still possible - even if not likely.
Please remove #30, it reminds me of a racist comment someone once made.
the man who remembers
Please remove 30, referencing something which was already removed as offensive...
14:
Unless you have something really special (skills other than law school, i.e. patent bar, CPA, etc.) or you help with some sort of quota (pick one, really hot also helps), then you are most likely still screwed even if you are scheduled to start with a really good firm. The squeeze, even at a stellar firm, will be enormous for first years. More senior associates who have any work at all will be hoarding it and will not let you get any hours. After a year or so you will probably be a stealth law off for "performance" reasons because your hours are low. Sad fact, but true.
27,
12 here. Mintz and Ropes announced earlier. WilmerHale just announced. Sure if its another week or two or silence it will mean something bad, but there are still 30-50 major firms that haven't announced. Obviously this isn't any comfort, but it doesn't mean they're out of line. I have no plans to start in fall, and itd obviously help with apartment/Barbri/bar exam loan/interim job search, and for that I want them to tell me as soon as possible. However, I'd rather have them decide with some confidence, and decrease the risk of a future pushback.
What's GP?
Locke Lord Houston is hemorrhaging badly.
Somebody post an updated list of firms that haven't announced start dates yet.
I think it's safe to say that any firm that hasn't announced by now is January 2010 or worse.
I doubt anybody will top Sonnenschein for the worst though.
I am offended by 3500 sq ft wives and Hofstra graduates. Please moderate.
12 ( and 35) - don't forget Ropes & Wilmer didn't lay off any lawyers - if this is how they choose to face the economy, that's one way to go. Just because you are a big firm in Boston does not mean you fall in lock-step with your "peers" - Choate announced a Jan 2010 start - who thinks Choate is better off than GP?
11 = mid level associate who realizes he/she is on the chopping block.
There is no way of knowing what will happen to 2009 or 2010 grads. Firms want to make money now, but they also don't want to ruin their reputations.
Elie,
How come the memos for the other firms are posted but not even an excerpt from Winston's? Can you post what you have from them? It seems they receive less coverage than other firms of their size and supposed caliber.
Major Applewhite couldn't agree less.
As yet another GP 3L, I agree with 27. GP expanded with several offices in Cali, and most recently in Hong Kong and London right before the bubble burst. It also hired nearly 100 new associates in Boston and ~50 between the rest of the offices. Plain and simple, the timing was bad for such a rapid expansion. Of the V100 firms where talk of rescission is on the table, my guess is that Goodwin has to be one of them. It would of course be a very last resort, but there just isn’t enough work to go around that can feed this many new mouths in this economy. Good firm, good people, just really bad timing for everyone involved. Oh well - that's life.
Still waiting to hear from these V100 firms...
5 Davis Polk & Wardwell New York, NY
10 Kirkland & Ellis LLP Chicago, IL
14 Williams & Connolly LLP Washington, DC
20 Arnold & Porter LLP Washington, DC
23 Jones Day Washington, DC
32 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP London, UK
35 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart Oliver & Hedges LLP Los Angeles, CA
38 Allen & Overy LLP London, UK
41 Baker Botts LLP Houston, TX
43 DLA Piper Chicago/DC
45 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati Palo Alto, CA
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP Armonk, NY
51 Munger, Tolles & Olson LLP Los Angeles, CA
53 Vinson & Elkins LLP Houston, TX
56 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP San Francisco, CA
58 Fish & Richardson P.C. Boston, MA
59 Cooley Godward LLP Palo Alto, CA
61 Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP New York, NY
63 Bingham McCutchen LLP Boston, MA
68 Steptoe & Johnson LLP Washington, DC
70 Kaye Scholer LLP New York, NY
74 Reed Smith LLP Pittsburgh, PA
75 Patton Boggs LLP Washington, DC
77 Bryan Cave LLP St. Louis, MO
79 Howrey LLP Washington, DC
80 Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP New York, NY
81 Crowell & Moring LLP Washington, DC
83 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP New York, NY
88 Dickstein Shapiro LLP Washington, DC
90 Finnegan, Henderson, & Farabow LLP Washington, DC
91 Lovells London
93 Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP New York, NY
94 Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP New York, NY
95 Kilpatrick Stockton LLP Atlanta, GA
100 Fenwick & West LLP Mountain View, CA
Is there any AmLaw 100 firm that is cheaper than Baker & McKenzie?
I suddenly feel like i want to go to medical school
46,
Schulte Roth & Zabel pushed back to January 28, 2010. 20k stipend (minus bar fees that have already been paid or will be paid). A "limited number" of pro bono deferrals are being offered as well.
am I seriously the only one who thinks that firms that have yet to announce might actually be paying attention to the economy and trying to make an individualized intelligent decision - thus pushing off their decision means more time to gather information? This does not mean I assume late announcing will necessarily offer good news, but at least it will be more informed - no?
How much overhead can they have in London and Hong Kong? There is like a dozen people, I can't imagine it costing them that much.
I think the fact that they slashed summer class from 100 to 30 in Boston is also important.
Obviously the big X factor is the Cali offices and how they are affecting the bottom line.
I can see them pushing back some/all to March, but I really don't see them rescinding.
46: take Bryan Cave off the list. They deferred until 1/19 with no stipend. Instead, they offered a loan.
5, Sonnenschein apparently doesn't want T14 students anyway. I'm a T5 student, class of '09 and got offers from virtually everywhere else I interviewed except here. I'm happy it turned out that way.
46: take Bryan Cave off the list. They deferred until 1/19/10 with no stipend. Instead, they offered a loan.
46: take Bryan Cave off the list. They deferred until 1/19/10 with no stipend. Instead, they offered a loan.
Kaye Scholer is starting at Jan 2010
hey law firm chaos, i heard you were extremely handsome and/or beautiful, depending on your gender.
46/lawfirmchaos,
you forgot Goodwin Procter
As an incoming WilmerHale associate who just got pushed back, I'm only slighly concerned about the January 20 start date, but the March 17 start date does concern me a lot. Both these concerns could be aleviated by increasing the stipend to something more reasonable. For those starting on January 20 (thats almost 6 months of post-bar unemployment) the stipend should be $20K instead of $10K, and for those starting in March (thats 7.5 months of post-bar unemployment) the stipend should be at least $30K instead of $15K.
Taking the incoming associates on as employees in August (just on the books - not acutally working), and thereby providing them with health insurance coverage through the firm, would also help aleviate a lot of worry that is out there.
As an incoming WilmerHale associate who just got pushed back, I'm only slighly concerned about the January 20 start date, but the March 17 start date does concern me a lot. Both these concerns could be aleviated by increasing the stipend to something more reasonable. For those starting on January 20 (thats almost 6 months of post-bar unemployment) the stipend should be $20K instead of $10K, and for those starting in March (thats 7.5 months of post-bar unemployment) the stipend should be at least $30K instead of $15K.
Taking the incoming associates on as employees in August (just on the books - not acutally working), and thereby providing them with health insurance coverage through the firm, would also help aleviate a lot of worry that is out there.
The Management Committee would like incoming attorneys to note that the "interest-free loan of up to $10,000, depending on need, to be deducted from future pay" will need be repaid immediately once we decide we never really will have need of you.
I will be spending a few days this week in Ames, Iowa for a document review. Can anyone recommend a good dry cleaners there? I tend to be a messy eater and just want to plan ahead. Thanks in advance!
The Management Committee would like incoming attorneys to note that the "interest-free loan of up to $10,000, depending on need, to be deducted from future pay" will need be repaid immediately once we decide we never really will have need of you.
Man, imagine if 60's comment was in any other industry. We live in a fantasy world.
Inside word from Goodwin (at least in Boston office) is that it has not decided what it is doing with incoming 3Ls, but that it "could possibly" be rescinding offers as early as next week. Certainly will be deferring start dates in corporate, although litigation is busy. You may call me a flame if you wish, but this directly from a partner.
Wilmer made record profits per partner last year - whats going on?
Other firms at least had a massive drop in revenue to justify their push-backs.
Wow, WilmerHale sure looks to be in bad shape. I turned down my 08 summer Wilmer DC... happy I did.
I'm getting frustrated by Kirkland's long delay. The LA office already announced Nov. 2nd as the start date (office-wide), but the others have yet to set a date. Recruiting stated that they are "actively looking into it" but do not know when they'll reach a decision. ATL, can you make inquiries?
66 - deferrals and layoffs are not directly driven by drops in profit per partner or revenue. They are driven by lack of demand for services. No work = no need for capacity (associates). Learn some basic economics and you'll be better off.
59/60,
Get a job or a bar study loan.
I'm getting frustrated by Kirkland's long delay. The LA office already announced Nov. 2nd as the start date (office-wide), but the others have yet to set a date. Recruiting stated that they are "actively looking into it" but do not know when they'll reach a decision. ATL, can you make inquiries?
Baker has pulled all bar prep advances except for barbri
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Bracewell: November 2, 2009. Up to 10k salary advance.
"How much overhead can they have in London and Hong Kong? There is like a dozen people, I can't imagine it costing them that much."
uhhh foreign offices cost millions to establish and operate.
65,
As much as I hope this isn't true, it'd be pretty messed up if you're lying.
I'm pretty sure I'd have a nervous breakdown if I got my offer rescinded.
61: I doubt anyone here knows of any dry cleaners in Iowa, so maybe you should try not to make a mess when you are eating there. Just my $.02. Good luck.
Does anyone know which Baker offices pushed back start dates? I heard that each one of the North American offices would be making independent decisions about start dates.
I hear Jenner is opening a new office? Why hasn't it been so screwed?
I'm guessing Wilmer's problem is that it has an unestablished NYC office that is dragging down the profitability of the DC/Boston' offices in this economy.
How can BM not offer anything to their employees? Are they really that bad off? Seems cheap to me.
Ropes would never does something like this.
- Boston Prestige
DLA ny also has no start date
Why does everyone always laugh at me?
this is all BS, and above the law is perpetuating it by focusing on it all so much (more post about firms who are actually doing the right thing please - they are still out there - but increasingly joining the band wagon).
this is creating a whole couple of classes just waiting for an opportunity to F their biglaw employers over at somepoint. it could happen. one day we could have leverage again.
Does this effect the DC offices as well?
59/60: you're forgetting the $5k stipend in May. So it's $15/20, not $10/15.
lol http://lawfirmchaos.blogspot.com/ now has a ranking of the firms by stipend per month. Sonnenschein is almost dead last at $938 per month
Kenny Powers here just wanting to profess my love for a beautiful incoming 3L at Winston Strawn. Being deferred sucks, but being loved by a superstar is really something special.
This would never happen Gibson or Munger.
Can anyone confirm that Reed Smith will soon announce delayed start dates for class of '09?
What about Chicago?
Does anyone know whether these 60-75k year long (non pro bono) stipends have to repaid if you choose not to return to the firm?
47 - The cheap awards go to:
Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP
Ropes & Gray LLP
Dewey & LeBoeuf
Hunton & Williams LLP
Chadbourne & Parke LLP
Squire, Sanders & Dempsey LLP
Mintz, Levin, Cohn, & Ferris PC
They all deferred 4+ months and between the bar stipend and deferral stipend, deferred associates will receive <$1000 / month (the last 6 offering nothing at all except maybe an advance)
57 - Whatever you heard is true!
lawfirmchaos,
If you're going to give awards, you have to give a special one to Sonnenschein - revoked summer offers last year, deferral for some 3L's to 2011 w/o any stipend, etc. And yet, the firm claims it's elite. What a joke.
Yeah, Ropes & Gray is not paying any kind of deferral stipend for incoming associates deferred until January 2010 ... only a salary advance which we must return within a year
Taking Wilmer's $75k stipend and doing something that is not related to law during that year = Worst. Idea. Ever. I don't know if you can possibly make yourself look more greedy, lazy, and less interested in your chosen profession.
46, 88, and 94: Bryan Cave deferred until 1/19/2009 and gave zero stipend. Instead, they offered a loan.
We will have an official awards ceremony as soon as the choas is over. Still waiting for approx. 35 V100 firms and we are speculating that a few firms at the bottom of the stipend rankings will reconsider.
Yeah, Kirkland and DPW need to announce. At this point, their peer firms (V15) have all gone with the start on time / public interest deferral route. Are they waiting b/c they're afraid they can't match this?
king spalding deferred and didn't offer stipend or loan
king spalding deferred and didn't offer stipend or loan
Fresh Feces.
for all the crap that firms like cwt and dechert took, they're looking like knights in shining armor compared with firms that are deferring 3Ls without pay. even first years that are fired at least have a couple paychecks to float by on; 3Ls have nothing to fall back on.
laughed out loud @ 62
BM has no stipend, no advance, and won't even cover all of BarBri. Even the miserly 5k advance that they took away would be a big help right now.
Better for a firm to revoke now if the alternative is stringing 3L's along until January only to defer again.
So wait, Latham laid off hundreds of associates, including ungodly numbers of first years, and Skadden gave its associates a paid year off?
LaTTTam & WaTTTkins indeed
105 - Nobody in their right mind would laugh at 62's post, so clearly 105=62. Please, please stop your moronic posts.
What the hell are you guys talking about? DPW has announced long time ago that their starting date is Sept 14, Oct 14, and Nov. 14. Business as usual.
104--are you sure that Dechert won't push back its dates, I think we'll see a number of firms change their decision in the next two months.
Elie,
Stop posting that gross fetus pic. It's making me want to vomiTTT.
112: THANK YOU. That is gross.
The 2009 class is 100% completely fucked. Firms will continue to defer until they actually need you (which may be in 5 years if you're lucky).
Go find another job. Seriously.
anyway paul hastings will start this fall?
Not sure why people keep posting that Davis Polk hasnt announced: its the same as usual schedule, Sept/Oct/Nov start dates.
Just because a firm isnt pushing start dates back doesnt mean they havent announced start dates. Tools.
Skadden is cutting first year salaries too
@114: stop your fear-mongering. It's not helping, and you don't know shit.
118 clearly knows shit. Perhaps he is shit.
110 - It's the "long time ago" part that puts them on the "has not announced yet" list. Considering everything that is going on, they should probable confirm start dates.
110 - It's the "long time ago" part that puts them on the "has not announced yet" list. Considering everything that is going on, they should probably confirm start dates.
120 is Elie
118, shit is overrated.
BM is giving associates nothing. Cheapest of the cheap.
With 3 Chicago firms announcing in one day and such crappy news from Sonnenschein, it seems like a merger could be in the works. Sonnenschein can do whatever it wants if another firm acquires it. Why would they care about prestige.
How is work going to magically appear in 2010? What am I missing here...
Kirkland NY class of 2009, the New York office already started a Michigan summer starter who graduated in December. Maybe that's a good sign that all you May graduates will start in the fall.
126 - the work won't appear, but firms are hoping that the deferred associates will get the message and move on (to lower paying jobs, their parents basement, suicide, etc...). It really is just a revoked offer in disguise.
This really isn't meant to inflict fear -- just a dose of reality from someone who knows a little bit.
Reed Smith pushed start dates back to January MONTHS ago... i sometimes am surprised how late this crowd can be to OLD news.
I just talked to a V10 senior partner and he told me that associates who takes those deferral offers will have no future at the firm. It is a de facto severance package and the firm does not expect them to come back. If you want to work at the firm, don't take those offers.
Winston has been doing stealth firings for months now. Letting go associates and partners. Even gave some income partners less than 3 months severance. Not very nice.
128; I'm not sure how a 3 month deferral (from Sept. to Jan.) is a rescission of an offer. Isn't it possible that some firms saw a chance to save a few bucks before the end of the year? I agree that a 1 year deferral is essentially a layoff, but I'm not sure how a 3 month deferral = no job come January.
Look at you all whine about getting paid tens of thousands of dollars to not work. You should be embarrassed.
130 - you will die a friendless shell of a human.
At least this hasn't happened to any HLS 3Ls.
If a firm decides to rescind 3L offers, how do they decide who to shitcan?
Just based off the summer reviews? School/Overall Resume?
I HATE MY 3L LIFE
I interviewed at Sonnenschein a few years ago (DC office). At lunch, the associate interviewing me said: "Look, you seem like a nice person. Our office is a shithole; don't come here."
87,
The $5K Wilmer gives in May is to help cover expenses while people are studying for the bar, and was part of the original compensation package we were all sold. My gripe is about the relatively small amount of money that we are expected to survive on for the 6-8 months after the bar. $10K for 6 months is not much, especially if you live in any decent sized city (even with my modest/cheap student lifestyle). If my life was centered around a small rural town, $10K may easily last me, but most of us live in civilization.
And 6 months of health insurance would reduce that small amount even further.
-59/60
I feel like Wilmer should split back up into pieces. Its DC and Boston offices are both top (2 or 3) in the market, but the rest of the firm drags them down. I don't get the whole temptation to go global.
It's shocking to me that a firm like Sonnenschein that promotes itself in the interview process as being so concerned for its employees' welfare did not offer ANYTHING to the 3L's that got deferred a whole year. It's just like, "good luck with your life, sorry we totally screwed you over." I picked the firm because everyone seemed so happy there, but clearly that is no longer the case, and won't be for many years to come.
139 - get in line; that's pretty much market for January deferrals (and you could do *alot* worse.)
- Deferred associate stuck in NYC with 10k stipend and bar expenses paid for.
WTF am I supposed to do until January, or worse still, March??? Would firms really look down on those of us if we just goofed off until our start dates, or are we tacitly expected to do something constructive?
143 - I wouldn't goof off for the entire time. I plan on travelling for a bit after the bar, then doing something productive -- working for a non-profit hopefully -- from Sept. to Jan.
Firms shitcan based on popularity, which is closely linked to performance. If you got shitcanned, chances are someone along the line thought your work product sucked and had a voice in who got shitcanned.
145--
That's not always the case. If you rub somebody in authority the wrong way, the exact opposite may turn out to be the case--meaning, you're not popular, so your work gets downgraded in reviews even when it gets filed with the court or incorporated into transactional documents. Your scenario assumes an ideal world the operates based on logic and reason. Take a good look around you at your firm and tell me whether that's the way things are working right now.
126--
You're not missing anything. Like the fate of most associates these days, the only thing that's missing seems to be work. And, even those who have not yet been laid off, I can assure you that if your hours are hovering around 1500 billables for the year, you're next in line. Don't be smug.
i have a friend at wilmerhale and their palo alto office had the highest revenue per lawyer in the whole firm! dc and boston are the best known offices, but pa is carrying more than its weight.
WilmerHale's butt cheeks have clencheth.
Get used to it if you do end up joining in January. Radio silence is the name of the game and fiscal discipline is their public motto.
It really looks like WilmerHale is pushing new associates to take the deferral. Why else would they offer a paltry stipend to those who will start in January/March, yet offer a more kingly sum for those who defer for a year?
This tells me that WilmerHale is hurting far more than I anticipated and that DC is not immune from the downturn.
2L's...we are screwed.
ATL...get ready for a slew of "XYZ Firm only gave offers to 50% of Summer Class" stories all through August, September and October.
We're royally screwed.
126 here, addressing comment 147. I'm not a smug associate hovering around 1500 hours. I'm a screwed 3L who was asking an honest question.
Please try again.
152: Instead of writing "screwed 3L," you could just write "3L" and we would all know what you mean.
-3L
So had Winston given a start date and then pushed it back, or was there no firm start date and then they said the start date would be in January?
What are the chances that 3Ls deferred to January will actually start in January? Is there any precedent to this (prior recessions)?
WilmerHale ThatShip BeA Sinkin!
40 -- WTF are you talking about?
102 - sounds like sour grapes to me, kinky spalding is the only firm i know of that hires people if they have had sex with a client since it shows they will go the extra mile for client retention
Still no start date from Latham. When in mid-December?
Wilmer NY is super busy compared with Wilmer DC and Boston.
Winston is definitely not a place to consider. Stealth layoffs, associate salary freezes, now associate starting dates pushed back, and compensation cuts across the board for everyone regardless if you made more money for the firm year over year (unless, of course, you happen to be one of the big Chicago rainmakers). Its a firm with very little future.