Summer (Associate) Lovin’… Not As Much of a Blast
Soon-to-be summer associates, we’re sure you won’t be surprised to hear this, but your summers will not be as lavish as years past. There’s this whole recession thing going on, and the summer associate programs are falling victim to law firms’ cost cutting.
The National Law Journal has an article on firms “par[ing] back the partying — and trim[ming] the price tag — of their summer programs.” The paring down actually started in 2008. Last year, firms trimmed the size and length of SA programs, but not the lavishness, wrote Lat in The Observer and here at ATL. Legal consultant Joel Rose tells the NLJ that the lavishness is getting trimmed as well this year:
There’s no doubt that law firm summer programs have a reputation for over-the-top social events and freebies. Organized trips to sporting events, boat rides, cocktail parties and daily lunches at top restaurants have traditionally been staples of summer programs at the largest firms, said legal consultant Joel A. Rose. In fact, some programs have focused more on socializing and bonding than performing substantive legal work, and all that fun comes at a price.“It’s very expensive,” Rose said. “When the economy was booming, firms felt like they needed to do these things to attract the best and the brightest. There’s a school of thought that the paradigm has changed — that corporate counsel are no longer willing to pay for these types of things. We will definitely see more conservative programs this summer.”
On the bright side, there will be fewer distractions, so you can put your nose to the grindstone and work your darndest to secure a job offer. (If you do get to escape for an SA lunch once or twice this summer, use our handy Where The Lawyers Eat Out restaurant guide. We advise you to take note of the “cheap eats” options.)
Sadly for ATL and its readers, this also means fewer opportunities for law students to get horrendously drunk and do the wonderful things that we love writing about. Oh, how we long for the days of a strong American economy, flush law firms, and Aquagirl tales. Summer dreams ripped at the seams indeed.
A bummer of a summer? [National Law Journal]
Crash Diet for Law Firms: Less Dessert for Summer Associates [New York Observer]
Earlier: Open Thread: Cravath & Co. to Shorter Summers
More Firms Shorten Summer Programs, Push Back Start Dates
The Incredible Shrinking Summer Program?
(110) 
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Twelfth?
My law firm says McDonald's in Manhattan is too pricey. Instead, we will go to McDowell's in Queens.
Shrinking? Nah, man. Sinking.
The ship be sinking...
Some summer associate programs weren't even lavish prior to the downturn. I remember back when I was a summer associate and my firm took the summers out for hot dogs. The summers had to buy their own.
This was a vault 100 firm and there were less than 5 summers at lunch (we went with two partners and an associate). The icing on the cake was that one of the partners filled out a form to get reimbursed for his hot dog.
Cravath is holding fight-to-the-death steel cage matches between summer associates as both a means of entertainment and adjusting the class size to fit their current hiring needs.
At least I won't get fat, like every other lawyer.
Ironically, "Amroh Idris" from the full story will not be returning to V&E as a 2L, apparently.
Not surprising. Not news.
Amazing Coming to America reference, 2!
4 posted that story in an open thread about Baker a few years ago and is apparently really bitter about that hot dog.
This is a blessing in disguise. It took forever to burn off all the weight I gained from daily SA lunches. And now I'm finally losing my seamless web pounds because I seldom have to stay late. Or now when I do stay late I tend to eschew the free dinner. All this free food equals extra weight.
Do you work in Baker HR 10?
No just remember it from reading the thread a while back.
*fewer* distractions
Not as egregious as some of your other mistakes, but you need to learn the difference between "less" and "fewer."
10 - if you mean Baker & McKenzie I'm not at all surprised. I summered at a smaller office 7 or 8 years ago, and I can't even recall being taken to the hot dog stand by any partner. There were nice associates (all of whom left before I returned as a first year) but some truly miserable creatures in the partner ranks.
5, it's a great source of income as well. broadcasting, syndication rights, tickets, etc.
Funny thing is, the firms won't cut enough -- they will keep up the illusion that all is well.
Just do away with summer programs altogether--they are worthless anyway.
Hi 10,
I'm not bitter about the hot dog and I didn't post the another thread. If I were bitter, I would have probably outed the firm. I just thought it was a funny story. I also think that summer associates should probably worry more about offers and less about food.
I hear McDonald's has these new Mcfish sticks. Do you like Mcfish sticks?
I don't understand why ATL repeatedly tries to instill a sense of panic in summers. Seriously, give it up, Elie. Do you have evidence of these "death matches" that you keep talking about? People are going to read this awful site anyway; there's no need to try to generate hysteria in order to boost readership.
It's not news that the summer programs will be shorter and skimpier. What would be news is how skimpy is skimpy? 5 events instead of 8? 2 events? $15 lunches instead of $25 lunches?
Funny thing is, the firms won't cut enough -- they will keep up the illusion that all is well.
"I don't understand why ATL repeatedly tries to instill a sense of panic in summers."
There's nothing wrong with having a healthy sense of fear.
What is wrong with WacArnolds in the Bronx?
And big firm summer programs have always had a *lot* of fat, I really don't see this as a problem.
22 - it is obvious to everybody in BigLaw that the 2009 summer classes are larger in size than the firms' anticipated needs for incoming first years in 2010 (largely because the 2009 summer classes were finalized before the magnitude of the recession was fully appreciated). It does not take a math whiz to realize that fewer summer associates will receive offers at the end of the summer this year, hence greater competition within the summer class.
Dude, please don't delude yourself. Instead fight. Fight to the death.
THIS WHOLE TOPIC = EPIC FAIL.
Funny thing is, the firms won't cut enough -- they will keep up the illusion that all is well.
Summer should look forward to eating a lot of bitter partner hot dogs.
18, 24 and 29: do you have any insight into what the funny thing is? I'd be interested in hearing from you on this one.
I'd pay out of my own associate pocket to see the Cravath cage fights...
Gimme back that filet-o-fish
Gimme that fish
Gimme back that filet-o-fish
Gimme that fish
What if it were you
hanging up on this wall?
If it were you in that sandwich
you wouldn’t be laughing at all!
Why are we even talking about this? This is completely an exercise in futility. The only thing people care about in this economy is whether or not they are going to have a job. Kind of hard to pay student loans without one. The rest of it (like this story) does not matter. Period.
Why do people keep calling me a gay fish?!?!
33, I love you. Please let me make the "wooo" sounds at the end of every-other line.
I thought the lunches were a little excessive during my summer associate days. It seemed like the firm was trying to hard and considering what I heard about the hours I always thought it would be better to cut the lunches and let the associates go home an hour earlier each day. Kind of a waste and it certainly did not sway my decision at all.
do you like putting fish sticks in your mouth?
my guess is that there will still be some nice lunches at most firms. there will just be less of the,.
37--
Don't worry. Based on where the economy is heading and what we've seen thus far, my sense is that there are a lot of firms that are planning to free up more than 1 hour/day in the lives of multiple associates/counsel/income partners/equity partners about to be thrown overboard.
Some firm, like my firm (Ohio firm Thompson Hine) have always had cheap shitty SA programs. Even during the boom years when I was an SA, it was all nothing but LAME, boring, face-time bullshit.
Listen to a partner talk about golf for 3 hours at a golf event? Hmmm, since I'm not fat, bald, impotent and boring, I think I'll pass. Yawn.
-Rogue Associate
"I am in yer lawferm. Wright now U R peying mi to wright this abowt U! NJOY"
#9
please remove your mouth from #2's nutsack. really, it wasn't that "amazing" of a reference.
42-what if he said " "fu&k you! fu&k you and fu&k you! Who's next?" would that be amazing?
Who shit in your Wheaties this morning 42?
The bigger issue will not be the lunch budgets, or the events themselves, but getting associates to pay the summers any attention at all. Morale is low, and many associates will not be keen on trading billables for summer program hours. Watching your friends get fired has that effect. And no matter how much partners promise that attending summer events will be rewarded as good Firm Citizenship, everyone knows that come reviews a summer program hour does will equal a client billable hour.
yep... the summers last year barely had any real work. This will end up being the longest summer ever for this years summer associates. Sitting in a dead quiet, boring law office with absolutely nothing to do, nothing to look forward to (i.e. lunches or parties), and no interaction with any real associates is going to make some go insane.
As a 2L headed to a firm this summer, I would hope that my firm (and every firm) will be financially prudent with the summer program. We're already getting paid way too much; why do we need firm-subsidized meals and events all the time, as well? I can buy my own damn lunches and dinners.
These lavish summers are a relic of some stupidly-managed past.
At least they'll be getting paid.
46: Oh, woe is me! Sitting around with nothing to do, getting paid 3K a week. Such a tragic situation.
I want to work as a tax associate in Reed Smith's Philly office. Will Lateral Link help me?
I don't understand how law firms don't realize they have the "best and brightest" by the balls already. Where do they think they would go if they didn't offer lavish summer programs? There is such a glut of lawyers they'd still get to have their pick of the litter. Why in the world they wine and dine 2Ls is beyond me.
Kash, I'm super-horny, will you please oblige?
V1 Stud with Big Schlong
the parties over
I love animals, they taste good.
As a first year associate that got laid off only a few months after starting, it pisses me off that these same firms are going to be wining and dining a bunch of law students to do nothing all summer.
For all of you hypocrites advocating for the termination of summer programs -- I'm sure you felt that way before you began summering for your firm as well. Ridiculous.
I don't care about all the perks. Cut me down to 8 weeks. I can pay for my own lunch. Throw the events at dive bars. I just want an offer.
- 2L
They arent advocating getting rid of them, just making them a normal internship where you do real work. I actually hated the lunches because it derailed productivity I think making these just like internships is the best idea possible. Shows you a real view of firm work and it's some BS flowery show.
Look, you guys can clamor for "real work" if you want... I just know that I would much rather do fluff work, play golf, eat great food, and drink frequently. Now, I might not have that chance, but hey, any normal person would prefer to have it that way.
58 - productivity? You are an idiot if you think your work mattered. What, that 20 page memo you wrote for the partner? Guess what, he already knew the answer or could have found it in about 2 minutes. And you probably spent way more time on it than you needed to. Derailed your productivity...please.
My inner spelling Nazi can't take it anymore...flush law firms [sic]??? Try plush, but if you meant how this economy is going down the toilet, then flush away. Aaahhh bad spelling makes me [sic].
I'm sure there will be plenty of 50 state surveys to work on this summer. GO SUMMER 2009!!
Does anyone really think downgrading the perks of summer associate programs is going to save a ton of jobs or result in more offers?
It doesn't matter if they take you out to lunch to nice restaurants or if they make you buy your own hot dogs. If the firms don't have work they are not going to give out offers.
I would personally prefer to get wined and dined and do fluff work for 8 weeks than to write memos that no one is going to read. I don't understand why some of the 2Ls on this board are so gung ho about working hard on fake projects (the real work doesn't exist). Try to enjoy your lives a little before you sign on to work at a big firm. Don't be so eager to prove what a hardworking cog you are going to be. It won't matter how hard you work if no one likes you.
Firms are going to have a tough time making offers about work product in this economy since there is no work to go around. I think they are still going to be looking at personality as the major indicator of whether or not a summer associate will get an offer.
61, you friggin' illiterate moron. FLUSH is a perfectly legit term to describe profitable, fiscally healthy lkaw firms. OTOH, 'plush'??!?!?! What, are these firms supposed to be soft and squishy?
Please get a dictionary and learn some basic vocabulary before you try to pass yourself off as a 'spelling Nazi'! (It would be more correctly termed a 'Vocabulary Nazi,' which you are definitely NOT!)
God, you're an idiot.
What's a lkaw firm, 64?
64: you are the idiot , try plush as defined in this context. Plush- meaning lavish: characterized by extravagance and profusion. What TTT Lkaw school did you go to?
-61
64 went to University of Phoenix Online Law
No. 2 -
They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.
Better idea--firms give summers the option of (1) getting wined/dined/cruised or (2) getting a bonus check come summer's end, where the bonus check is roughly = to the amount of $$ wasted on these events.
I would much rather take option (2). Throw in a nice welcome lunch and goodbye dinner, maybe a baseball game, but at the end of the day I'd rather have a nice new plasma and a PS3 (or a couple months' rent) than a $25 lunch 3 days a week.
61, can you tell me whether you spell your name "Ploushbag" or "Douschebagg" or is there a third option?
21 . . . Kanye West still doesn't get it
to the First Year who got fired and is now whining about Summers. Where you whining two years ago when you were a summer? I know it totally sucks to get fired especially in this economy, but its not the 2Ls fault and they deserve the same chance as anyone else.
This is crap. All the years before us had great summers. Cool events, parties, and interesting projects. This summer is gonna suck. Completely unfair. Firms should uphold their end of the bargain and give the summers a normal and fair summer associate experience.
Dear law students lucky enough to have summer associate jobs,
- You will not all get offers. In the past at most large firms, you had to simply avoid doing something ridiculous (and even then, if you did it with a roguish charm, we'd forgive you). Last year, you had to avoid doing something mildly stupid or clearly indicative of a lack of intellectual ability or work ethic. This year, ha! While the offer rate at large firms will probably average well over 50%, you should behave at all times as if only half of you will receive offers.
- Further, since firms will probably be looking to slot you in practice groups with work, you'll have far less control about which practice area you'll be able to join. If you want to work in a slower area and the firm will even consider a hire in that area, you need to behave and work like only a handful of you are getting offers. It might make the difference between substantive work for the first two years of your career, and 10 hours a day doing or supervising document review.
- You will probably not get real work. You really never did -- at least any project of consequence that required real research without massive supervision and double-checking. Your time was never really billed. I know this because I forgot to submit time sheets when I was a summer associate for multiple weeks of work. No one ever asked about it. This year, we'll be asking you to do more updating of old memos, 50-state surveys, duplicates of memos being given to real associates, duplicates of memos being given to your summer associate colleagues, and writing articles for lawyers and senior associates to edit and slap their names on.
- We are cutting back our entertainment budgets. There won't be as many events, they won't be as lavish, and they'll be closer to the office. They will be geared at getting you integrated or introduced to the firm's attorneys, not just introduced to your summer class. We won't be picking up the bar tab afterwards for your afterparty. We don't want you to bring guests, much less multiple guests(!). Don't hang out with the same associates at every function. You're far safer if you get to know some of the partners, too, instead of acting like the firm exists to entertain you.
- In the past, most associates used you as a meal ticket. This year, they will still try (maybe not as hard), but you need to show some restraint as well. If all of your lunches are with the same 6 notorious summer lunch moochers, you are not maximizing that time (which you will need to maximize, since you will not see real work). Don't turn a partner down for a lunch (or offer her a breakfast!) for your third group lunch with the mooching crew. You should turn down a lunch with a partner only for prior obligations with people at a senior associate level or higher. And even then, determine whether you should consider asking to move the senior associate lunch.
- We know that many of you, despite the rotten economy and horrible law firm environment, will come in with a sense of entitlement as big as Texas. You are not as special as your mommy says you are. We are not lucky to have you. We see dozens of people just like you every year, and the people that we are lucky to have never behave that way (or they do, but they're already partners and we have to just accept their behavior). We're betting on some of you to simply not appreciate how to act like an adult in a professional setting, and we are counting on you to screw up in some massively entertaining way. We WANT that to happen. Of course, you won't get an offer, but at least the rest of us will have something to talk about for the next 11 months until next year's summer class joins.
You've been warned.
74: Sounds like you work for a real TTT firm. I'm sorry for your personal failures but don't try to scare those of us going to legitimate law firms.
2L V10 Stud
74 probably gave the best advice I have ever, ever, seen. 75 is an idiot. Wow. I almost want to print a copy of it out and hand it to my summer mentee and wash my hands of the whole horrid affair.
I can't believe so many law students feel entitled to be wined and dined. You have to be joking. A law student is a dime a dozen, even from top schools. You all come out not knowing a damn thing. You are lucky big firms even consider hiring you right out of school when you don't know jack and do not even remotely provide enough value for what you are paid. Get it straight, no law student is special, big firms are FINE without you. Start acting humble and grateful and stop acting like the large firms owe you anything. They don't. If that bothers you, by all means go try to get a small law gig or hang your own shingle.
I'm just wondering if most of you loved your summer events anyway? Personally I found the excessive schmoozing boring and repetitive. Dinner with partners?!? Awesome. Because hearing about a bitchy judge for 3 and half hours totally does not bore me to death. Maybe I just need to focus more on my handshakefulness and get with the program
Don't give me this "law students are a dime a dozen" crap. I'm at the top fo my class at a top school, I've studied hard, nailed 1L finals, and deserve the summer associate experience. Everyone else got it when it was their turn. Why should I get the shaft? I honestly don't care if 5, 10, or 50 more staff or attorneys need to be laid off. Big Law is for the best. They are meant to make lots of cash and treat associates to the best of everything. I deserve MINE!
76: enjoy your mediocrity.
2L V10 Stud
Thanks for the link to "Where the Lawyers Eat Out," Kashmir! As luck would have it, though, I'm on my way to Peoria Ill. for client interviews next week, and I didn't see an entry for Peoria. Can anyone recommend a good restaurant there?
--Packin' for Peoria
Ignore at your own peril 75.
- Not 74
I should specify, I'm going to a real V10, not Skadden, Weil or Latham.
2L V10 Stud
78, you need to learn to love it. This is how lawyers advance in the system. Anyone who says you can just keep to yourself and "do good work" to get ahead is lying. Its all about connections. This is especially true later in your career when you make partner. None of them get there by being head-and-shoulders above their peers in the billable department. Don't get me wrong, you need to do good work, and you need to keep your billables up, but that is never enough.
Props to 68 for going through the trouble of making that profile. I don't know whether to shake your hand, or kiss it, or bow, or what. I feel like break dancing!
kill yourself, 83.
thanks, 74. you nailed it.
75: Believe whatever you want if it helps your ego. But know that this year, you will have to do more at your $3,000/week 9-week party than just show up and mouthbreathe. $27,000 for the summer is awfully nice, but if you're jobless afterwards, you'll have to cry to daddy to pay back your loans. Trust me, $200k+ per year for multiple years is much better. You can't live for very long on a summer associate's haul, nor does it really do as much for your resume in this economy as you might hope. (Oh, and with that ego of yours, rest assured there is no "I'll just go be an i-banker" anymore. Too many of your kind already flocked there and are out on the streets again.)
- 74 (the "really nice" senior associate on your firm's recruiting committee who will be judging you intensely and constantly)
79 -- just killself, really. Waste of human space.
74,
Quick question: T5 law school with summer at V10. didn't get the job based on grades. any idea whether firms will be looking at grades again (whether to re-evaluate or take account of 2L performance) as they evaluate offers at the end of the summer? thanks.
V10, you are not special at all.
- V5 stud!
V5, your dick-measuring complex shows you're the right kind of guy for V5! Welcome!
The 'best and the brightest' lawyers are a great resource for most firms that want to pay for them. 2L summer pay is overinflated, but so is the pay for most first year associates. Next year 2Ls will be willing to do your job for less money. They wine and dine 2Ls, b/c they can hire them for the same work and don't need to hear bitching about bonuses.
87 - real firms have 13 or 14 week summer programs this year. Enjoy life at your 9 week summer TTT firm.
2L V10 Stud
2L V10 Stud
Douche bag, or simply douche is considered to be a pejorative term in most of the English-speaking world. The term implies a variety of negative qualities, specifically arrogance and malice.
Somehow I think your firm will find this definition on Wikipedia before a legitimate, real firm summer is over.
89: As a general rule, probably not. My firm would probably evaluate your grades again only if they really fell off (or if they were noticably bad to begin with and they didn't really pick up). You can't slack off, but if you have a slip up, I don't think it's the end of the world (but have a good explanation ready, just in case). Always try to stay away from C's, but those are pretty hard to come by at a T5 school anyways. Some firms are intense grade snobs, but it doesn't sound like you are at one -- you need grades to get in the door, after that, it's just part of the whole package.
All that said, if you were a borderline candidate at the end of the summer, they might look to anything on which to base their decision, because this market is worse than it was in the early '00s and '90s. (And know that they might be looking to make more cuts than they'd have you believe going in, so they could *point* to grades as a convenient excuse. In all likelihood, though, they might not pinpoint a particular reason if you don't get a permanent offer.) Firms will say (as mine does) that they view students from higher tier law schools with better academic performances as better, because they have overall shown better performance as junior and mid-level associates (and have likely stayed at the firm longer, too).
Something got you this summer job. If it wasn't your grades themselves, the next things that come to mind (and forgive my candor) are that (i) you have a pre-existing connection to the firm (i.e., former paralegal), (ii) you are close/related to a key client, (iii) you are close/related to a partner, (iv) you're a minority, (v) you're in IP or (vi) you were bright enough from a T5 (generally, this job does not require a rocket scientist and not many people want to work alongside a rocket scientist) and you're personable. Those things that got you in the door without having straight A's are valuable. So don't cloud their positive impression of you with something that you CAN control. As with ALL summer associates, focus on being as personable and professional as you can be. It's important for law firm associates to be knowledgable, but we don't expect you to come out of school knowing everything (and we don't want you to act like you do). Instead, we want to see people who are intelligent, personable, eager to learn, quick on the uptake, easy to work with, presentable to clients, not irritating to spend large amounts of time with, and not walking around like they're the best thing since sliced bread. So, you should study for finals, but not get yourself so worked up thinking you MUST get an A that you kill your confidence.
79, to get in the door, you must have great grades from a good school. To get hired, you must be likeable and not be a douchebag who thinks s/he is entitled to a job. Your competitiors/peers all have the same or better credentials you do. I suggest you try being grateful for the opportunity to secure employment post-law school and not bitching about the entertainment and food over the summer. Think big picture with that vast intellect of yours.
79. Please see 94.
2L V10 Stud - I apologize. YOUR firm will be hosting a 14 week extravaganza, where every night will be a fabled Davis Dream Night. Not every 2L is so lucky.
74/95,
much appreciated; confirmed my intuition, as i suspected grades could serve to reduced costs associated with tough individual evaluations, but (since such costs are low) they would not be a significant factor absent evidence of an extraordinary case.
refreshing to see a post with apparent legitimacy and useful advice buried amongst all the posing.
candor is informative. if curious, qualify under (vi); others not remotely applicable. haven't worked for an A, but haven't suffered the ignominy of a C.
if you happen to return, i wonder what your thoughts are on this: in considering the situation through a cost/benefit analysis from the firm's perspective, i have to conclude that there will not be a significant deviation from historic offer rates, at least for firms with significant investments in "repetitional" value. on one hand, you can target a low offer rate and have your CLS/NYU/HLS, etc. summers show up at fall OCI and scare shitless rising 2Ls, driving top students to peer firms. OR, firms can defer such a cost, reducing both its repetitional effect and the cost of uncertainty inherent in making hiring decisions over a year in advance of permanent employment. if 2010 rolls around and economy reflects "U" curve growth rather than "V" curve growth, defer 2009 summers like 2008. in either outcome, deferral allows for a more informed (and less costly) decision regarding appropriate level of labor needs.
this is incredibly absurd... the economy sucks, get over it. most of us are happy to have a paid summer job.... and a damn good pay check for still being a student... if you desire 100 dollar lunches every day than use your pay check.... really stupid topic ATL
I remember a couple years ago when we all came back from SA positions. Almost everyone was FAT!! Including me. This indeed is a blessing in disguise
Summer associate entitlement, at least from students at top schools, is partially nurtured by the firms themselves. Lavish 1L recruiting events (hell, even sometimes admitted student firm receptions), feeding lines about how much they depend on the graduates of whatever HYSCCN school for the firm's success, stiff competition and constant phone calls during recruitment, free shwag, etc. It doesn't make it more defensible, but firms definitely play a part in cultivating that attitude.
I remember my summer...16 weeks cuz I'm a hustla...they took me to lunch every day and I hated it! Sitting with a bunch of losers and partners is not worth $75 lunch. Unless you're fat.
I bet Elie enjoyed his summer.
Anyways, I digress. Associate money isn't that great. Sure, its good for when you start your career, but...come on! In this day and age a bright, motivated person can always earn a living. After taxes, an associate makes a little over 100K a year. My friend who's a high school dropout makes more than that...as an interior decorator. Then again, she's hot.
The point is this: if you are ugly, then you will eat your summer lunches (bc fat) but you will also work hard and stay late and get a job...but you'll still be ugly. You'll have enough income to pay 3K for rent, go to momofuku for porkbelly (MMMMmmm!) and buy a lot of ill-fitting clothes at Banana Republic.
But if you're a hustla...whether an incoming summer or a junior associate...then you know well enough to not really give a fuck about this job. Its just some free money to get things rolling, its not the holy grail.
99,
You sound like an absolute d-bag. If you talk like that this summer, you will get no offered.
To add to 74's good advice, the mooching free meal ticket associates who want to go to lunch with you every day because they can expense account it are often the slackers with the bad reputations and bad work product who will at some point be asked to leave. Don't fall in with them even though they may be the coolest folks at the firm.
Law students are so screwed.
Lol at 79. Nice trolling!
Hey summer associates, you want an offer? Suck my big cock and teabag my big balls, come on, line up, girls first, then dudes.
99: While your reasoning makes logical sense, it (naturally) reflects the wishful optimism of a top law student. The thinking among law students and recruiting depts was (and likely remains) that lay-offs in the junior associate ranks are bad because that could impact recruiting from top schools for years to come. The affected associates are close enough in age and maintain a close enough connection to their schools that their lay-offs impact recruiting.
But there comes a point in a firm's finances or hiring planning where those law school recruiting issues are outweighed by the bottom line. Many firms are at or beyond that point. They conduct stealth lay-offs first, then regular lay-offs at mid-levels, then at junior and first years and then rescind offers of permanent employment. Simultaneously, they defer incoming associates or shrink summer programs, summer classes, and offer rates. For the firms who have already made many of these tough choices, the reputational concerns for law school recruiting have long fallen by the wayside. The acceptance rates for 2L summer offers were way up this year, because there were far fewer summer positions available. With all of the lay-offs, deferrals and shrinking programs this year, the acceptance rates of permanent offers will be almost 100%, as well. Firms don't know when the downturn will end and when lagging practice groups will start to pick up, but those firms that have already conducted some lay-offs or deferrals (and indeed, many others who haven't yet made those hard choices) will want to risk having a huge class of incoming 2010 associates just to say that they maintained a 95%+ offer rate. It's such a secondary concern to them now. Firms that ended up with large summer associate classes will not want to "push" after the summer just to keep the offer rates high, and risk having to defer or rescind the permanent offer later. (And, BTW, why are we assuming that going below a 90-95% offer rate has a worse reputational impact than deferring permanent offers? A 2L could feasibly see himself as being able to make it into the the 50% of a summer class that gets a permanent offer. If all incoming associates are being deferred, he doesn't have a chance of improving that situation by his own performance.) Consider also that some firms are paying stipends or severance to deferred associates or rescinded offerees, and the decision to "push" means that it will cost them more than just giving out fewer permanent offers. Also, firms will be wary for a while, and will only want to hire when there is actual work to be done, even if that means they have to make lateral hires.
Finally, while there is some reputational impact, understand that someone will always take a job, even at a firm that has had lay-offs or not given out 100% offers. With fewer jobs available, even students from top schools will have but so many options. I can name the firms that conducted lay-offs and deferrals in 2002-2003, and they all still had full summer classes and lateral hires in the years thereafter. People either don't have a better option than that firm, don't put too much stock in past actions or think that it won't happen to them.
Personally, I wish my firm would have seen the writing on the wall and no-offered some of us last summer (2008). Instead, they chose to deny reality and continued to make offers to all the summers who were not complete social freaks.
The result: there are now too many incoming associates, we have all been deferred until January, and it seems unlikely that we will EVER start.