[generic comment re quality of law schools in florida]

Don't February bar results always suck, no matter what state you are in?

Is it too late to knock them further down the rankings?

Go GaTTTors!

The stats posted are meaningless unless compared to previous February passage rates at those schools. The most obvious explanation is that bar passage rates (in all jurisdictions) go down with each subsequent attempt by an applicant. In other words, bar passage rates for first-time test takers are in the 90's across the board. The people who fail the fall exam and re-take are usually well-represented in the February session resulting in lower passage rates.

I think these statistics are pretty routine for February bar exams.

Once you take away the people taking the exam for the first time (i.e. competent part-timers), and people who failed due to serious illness or family issues in the summer, you're left with a raft of people who are either too lazy to study enough, or too dumb to ever pass the exam.

Not shocked.

If the passage rates are consistent with past years, what is the problem?

Former Thelen and current Orrick partner the Glass Cock here, pointing out this factoid: If Raul Castro obtained nuclear weapons and launched them against Florida and the heat of the detonated weapons fused Florida's land mass into glass, the state would resemble be my identical twin, upside down. Now some of you may think that is a long way to go for a dubious punchline, but I counter that it is far more interesting than the results of the February Florida bar exam. Oh, and Kash is hot.

Too small of a sample size. 14 students failed out 40 at FSU. Is that altogether shocking given the kind of students who graduate early/late?

6,

These are stats for first-time takers, not repeaters.

CHOMP CHOMP

Too small of a sample size. 14 students failed out 40 at FSU. Is that altogether shocking given the kind of students who graduate early/late?

two bits!

Awesome comment repost from the 2/27/09 Latham mass layoff post:

Dear Associates,

HAPPY FIRING DAY!

Today is the day you realize that you will be poor. Very poor. You will never be able to pay off your massive law school debts. Your family and friends will pity you, others will laugh at you. You will never enjoy the career or success you dreamed of in law school.

But you can overcome this setback. There are still jobs to be had in retail. There is no shame in stocking shelves for a living.

For the men among you, this means that you will probably have a hard time finding a wife or girlfriend. For the women, you can still latch on to a man with a job. But be prepared to spend a lot of time on your back, as this is the only way you can "add value" now.

Sincerely,

The Partners who did this to you.

What was the overall pass rate for February 2009?

More like Flori-dont.

People in Florida are retarded just in general. Its true.

IDIOTS, 1-8, do you even read the posts? Very clearly, these statistics were significantly lower than past February bar exams for these schools.

Hey, my name isn't on this list, anyone know what that means!?
--Freaking Out in Ft. Lauderdale

"But FSU had the highest passage rate among Florida schools on last year's February exam, as well the July 2007 and July 2006 exams."

- think ur missing an "as"

I can't speak to the other schools, but I do have an opinion on why UF's passage rate was so low. They eliminated their spring class, so most all UF students taking the Spring Bar had failed in the Fall. In other words, there were no Spring class admits taking the bar when they were supposed to. But on another note, I agree that Florida, as a state, is full of idiots. Its incredible how many people live beyond their means and have poor educations. Floridians don't deserve their own weather or tax haven benefits.

22, but lots of them get eaten by sharks. How about some sympathy?

homestead exemption!

The Flordia Board if Bar Examiners is just nutty. They have always been concerned with the number of lawyers in Florida. You have to think about it. Who would want (or have the time) to serve on such a Board? And who would want to grade the essays? These people have to be solo practioners in Ocala or laid off of counsel in Miami.

On the other hand, the Florida schools should be ashamed. They cost way too much, but you would think they could get their students, who presumably have passed their courses, admitted. It strikes me that they should rethink the way they are educating their students.

Of those who failed, I am sure most of them studied and took things seriously. Something is wrong and the Flordia Bar and the law schools ought to get their acts together.

I hate to say it, given that I may be moving back to Florida after getting laid-off, but the dearth of quality attorneys in Florida is simply astounding! That said, it seems like an easy state to practice in since you know that your adversaries are just plain stupid!

Has anyone taken note that people in FL aren't too bright?

Agreed, 22. UF went from having 170-200 February takers to having approximately 30 this year. Having known some of those who took this February bar, frankly, I'm not surprised. Not to beat them up too much, but many of them did not enroll in Barbri (they didn't have jobs lined up, and bar loan money was hard to come by late last fall--thanks to the general tightening of private lending). These are not the best and brightest of any of these big 3 Florida schools--more like looking at the passage rates for the sub-median portions of a typical graduating class.
Still inexcusable performance, but there are a few contributing factors other than these florida students are just "DUM."

V Monkey missed Tampa.

THAT THURR IS THE RESULT OF LOW MORALE!

No worries, Floridians. Latham is soon to open an office in Florida and go into such hot practices as real estate and Latin American finance. We are expanding!!!

-Law firm of the decade

Tampa misses vmonkey.

p.s. Go Hatters!

19 -- no, we don't read the posts. Duh. They are too hideous. Usually we just pick one thing that seems annoying, and then comment on it.

yikes

FIU law was #1 for the third time in as many years.

suck on that big law and come give me a job

FIU law was #1 for the third time in as many years.

suck on that big law and come give me a job

Stetson, bitches!

26 wrote:

" [Florida] seems like an easy state to practice in since you know that your adversaries are just plain stupid! "

When you start litigating, you'll learn that having a stupid adversary is NOT a good thing.

35, I'll give you that FIU has made some drastic improvements over the past few years. I foresee FIU taking over Miami and/or Stetson in the rankings within the next 5 years. The only problem is that FIU has done so well by keeping the entering class size miniscule--it will take a long time to make up ground on the networking front when you have fewer attorneys in practice. To really excel, it needs to increase class size as well as keeping attrition low and bar passage high.

I took the Feb bar a few years ago (December grad) and passed. The exam was no easier than any other exam administered. When I took the exam, Facebook didn't have status messages, Twitter didn't exist, the economy wasn't falling apart, and Oblah-muh wasn't screwing up constitutionally mandated oaths. A lot has changed since then, a lot to distract students and a lot to affect the mindset approaching the bar exam. FL bar takers are not stupid. Those who discount FL, however, are.

Hahaha 38. So true.

38 is right. There's nothing worse than trying to respond to shitty filings.

Fewer graduates have jobs, so fewer graduates had money for expensive barbri classes.

Wonder if we'll see similar results in other states.

Florida law schools are NOT too expensive. At least not UF and FSU. Maybe you get what you pay for.

Beaten by Nova Southeastern? For SHAME Levin College of Law. For SHAME.

Ok. Let's address a few of these comments. First of all, nobody cares that FIU had the highest passage rate. It's barely accredited and nobody respects it. The only reason the passage rate is so high is because the sole premise of the law school is to teach for the bar. Don't even deny it. What a pathetic excuse for a school. The best thing you have going is Isaiah "Thompson" Thomas. Next, UF is the best law school in Florida. It will be in the top 40 next year, as soon as the classes of 400 are reduced by a hundred and the LSAT range jumps by 3 points on each side. So those of you who think FSU is equivalent, don't even try it. FSU, despite being ranked almost the same, is filled with only UF rejects. Outside of some bizzare unforeseeable reason, nobody would ever choose to go to FSU over Florida. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that Miami is better than FSU because Miami has national recognitiion and places well in at least one major U.S. city. That being said, Miami is a ripoff and if you're not in the top of the class, then you might as well flush yourself down the toilet with the rest of your tuition money. If you went to SteTTTson, good luck getting a job outside of the Tampa area. It happens, but its rare. If you went to Nova, you don't deserve to be a lawyer. I wouldn't trust a Nova law grad (outside of top 10%) to pick up my morning paper. If you go to FAMU, you make Nova look like UChicago. If you went to Coastal or Barry, I find it hard to believe that you are aren't just giving yourself an excuse to use your parent's money and tell them you are being productive with it. But, you aren't fooling anyone. Getting a job and/or respect coming from one of those schools is like hitting blackjack 10 times in a row. Very unlikely and not worth the money to try. Finally, if you went to St. Thomas, you are just an idiot or you love Bob Butterworth. I expect to get pleny of replies for TTT people and that's fine. But when you reply, please dislose what school you went to and what you do now. You better have some self-esteem saved up because I am going to come back at you like a ton of bricks.

Ok. Let's address a few of these comments. First of all, nobody cares that FIU had the highest passage rate. It's barely accredited and nobody respects it. The only reason the passage rate is so high is because the sole premise of the law school is to teach for the bar. Don't even deny it. What a pathetic excuse for a school. The best thing you have going is Isaiah "Thompson" Thomas. Next, UF is the best law school in Florida. It will be in the top 40 next year, as soon as the classes of 400 are reduced by a hundred and the LSAT range jumps by 3 points on each side. So those of you who think FSU is equivalent, don't even try it. FSU, despite being ranked almost the same, is filled with only UF rejects. Outside of some bizzare unforeseeable reason, nobody would ever choose to go to FSU over Florida. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that Miami is better than FSU because Miami has national recognitiion and places well in at least one major U.S. city. That being said, Miami is a ripoff and if you're not in the top of the class, then you might as well flush yourself down the toilet with the rest of your tuition money. If you went to SteTTTson, good luck getting a job outside of the Tampa area. It happens, but its rare. If you went to Nova, you don't deserve to be a lawyer. I wouldn't trust a Nova law grad (outside of top 10%) to pick up my morning paper. If you go to FAMU, you make Nova look like UChicago. If you went to Coastal or Barry, I find it hard to believe that you are aren't just giving yourself an excuse to use your parent's money and tell them you are being productive with it. But, you aren't fooling anyone. Getting a job and/or respect coming from one of those schools is like hitting blackjack 10 times in a row. Very unlikely and not worth the money to try. Finally, if you went to St. Thomas, you are just an idiot or you love Bob Butterworth. I expect to get pleny of replies for TTT people and that's fine. But when you reply, please disclose what school you went to and what you do now. You better have some self-esteem saved up because I am going to come back at you like a ton of bricks.

47- Douchebag.

Ok. Time for a dose of Florida reality. If you went to UF, FSU, or Miami, you might be intelligent. UF is by far, the best school in the bunch and its ranking is not representative of its reputation. Next year, when the class size is reduced by 100, it will be in the top 40. FSU is full of UF rejects that mostly can't get jobs outside of North Florida. Miami is actually a crappy school, but it places better than it should given its location, though it does have some national recognition. That being said, if you are outside the top half at Miami, flush yourself down the toilet with the rest of your tuition money. If you went to SteTTTson, good luck getting a job outside of the Tampa area. If you went to St. Thomas, you should consider applying to a law school next year. If you go to FAMU, you make St. Thomas look like Yale. I'm not sure how you get a job coming from FAMU. What a joke. Same goes for Coastal and Barry. Stop wasting your money and go get your inevitable retail job while its hot. Now, for the grand finale. If you went to or go to FIU, stop kidding yourself. Your school is a joke and your bar passage results are only an indication that your school teaches students for the bar exam. You know a school is garbage when your selling point is bar passage percentage. My favorite school is Nova. If you went to Nova, you are likely from South Florida, live beyond your means, and have stupid wealthy parents that are wasting their money on their children. If you went to Nova and are outside of the top quarter, I really don't know what you can do with yourself. I wouldn't trust you to pick up my morning newspaper. I look forward to hearing your comments (Assuming you post something about what you do and where you went to school). However, make sure you have some self-esteem saved up because I am going to drop the hammer.

I wonder how many of those students had to work because the bailed-out banks stopped giving bar loans?

I wonder how many students had to work because the bailed-out banks stopped giving bar loans? I know plenty of students in that position for the July exam -- mind you, working in non-legal jobs because there are no other opportunities. I'm sure that affects passage rates.

46, 47, and 49. I get it--you probably go to UF (so do I). But you're not doing anyone any favors by being such an a**. We could do without people like you ripping on the lower-ranked schools (particularly in a post where we don't look so hot ourselves--there are at least 50 schools, judging by the USNWR, who could make the same sort of diatribe against us).

I feel sorry for #47 that he/she went to college and still remains so ignorant, so l'll try to enlighten him/her. In case you haven't noticed, Nova has been moving steadily up the state rankings for 1st time bar takers. We are now #3 in the state. Maybe your school was as arrogant as you and decided it could rest on its laurels. You know what they say, "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." Can you say, "T-i-m-b-e-r-s!"

I feel sorry for #47 that he/she went to college and still remains so ignorant, so l'll try to enlighten him/her. In case you haven't noticed, Nova has been moving steadily up the state rankings for 1st time bar takers. We are now #3 in the state. Maybe your school was as arrogant as you and decided it could rest on its laurels. You know what they say, "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." Can you say, "T-i-m-b-e-r-s!"

I feel sorry for these UF grads who 1) can't figure out how to work the post button, and 2) also believe that Jortstown is some sort of cultural mecca when compared to Tallahassee.

BTW- Speaking from practical experience, there is no appreciable difference between the quality of students being currently produced at UF v. FSU. UF clearly has a superior placement office and deeper alumni network, which is why it maintains an ever so slight edge in the US News Rankings.

Passage rates go down in the bad economic times. The bar is a government authorized/sanctioned/endorsed monopoly. I have not read the news lately, but I suspect, based on these passages rates, that Florida, or even the broader U.S. economy, may be in some sort of recession. Can anyone confirm?

Different law schools tend to focus on different areas of law. For example, some schools have more students who strive for small-firms focusing on family law, criminal defense, real-estate closings, and individual wills. Other schools have more students who hope to practice at a large firm, handling corporate work, intellectual property, and other larger-scale business matters. The bar passage rates for each school may be affected by how well the specializations of the law students from a school correspond to the subject areas emphasized on that year's bar exam.

I apologize for the delay and multiple posts. The post button is clearly an anomaly that I can't figure out. Now, 47. Are you kidding me? Nova has been moving up the rankings? What rankings? Are you ranked in anything? Bar passage rankings? Nobody cares about that. Nova is garbage and will always be garbage. US news barely takes bar passage rates into account. Nova actually has bar exam prep classes, which makes sense because you might as well concentrate on passing the bar, since geting a job is mostly hopeless.

52, I'll agree that I am an as****, but this site is not to debate who is an ass***. This site is for expressing truths about law schools and the legal market. I suppose that if you went to a T-14 school , you could have some grounds to rip on the 46th best school. However, the differenece there is that T-14 kids are getting BigLaw jobs in DC and Chicago. Some UF kids still get those jobs, but many get jobs with BigLaw in the Southeast and most get jobs with smaller firms around Florida. Im not sure you can really rip on that as much as a school that charges $30K a year (i.e., Nova) and couldn't place a top student at the State Attorney's Office.

@53,54

Its "timber" not "timbers"

Only morons like you and pirates (shiver me timbers) say timbers

55, time for you to go down. First of all, UF is far better than FSU in every respect. Gainesville is a cultural mecca and no FSU Law student receives praise as being smart for graduating from Tally. UF students do. Its the best school in the state and everyone knows it. Granted, FSU is fine school and I won't deny that. However, don't pretend that every kid at FSU doesn't wish he/she got into UF. In fact, I'll land a job in some "jorts" before an FSU kid does the same in a suit. Go on any big firm website and find me more FSU law grads than UF law grads. I realize the schools have different class sizes, but you get the point. Just to make the point clearer, I have many friends who were devastated when they didn't get into UF law. Many of them go to FSU now. In case you still don't understand, with all things being relatively equal except law school, the UF kid will always get the job over the FSU kid. You can ask all the FSU kids that didn't get the job that I landed. Look which firms do OCI at both schools. I understand the bitterness. I really do. And I'm sure you're fairly smart. But don't pretend you aren't green with envy. When your close proximity to UF in rankings lands you the jobs that the UF kids are ripping from you every single year, then we'll talk.

53, I can't help but be impressed by your stupidity. I already responded, but I think I need to emphasize my point again. Your reasoning for Nova being respectable because it's moving up the bar passage rankings is also reasoning for why you go to Nova. What a stupid thing to say. Jesus. It's so hard to reason with someone whose logic is off the map. Nobody cares what the school's bar passage percentage is. I think the Nova faculty has been brainwashing kids into thinking that bar passage is the goal of law school. When you go to UF (or a Big 3 school; FSU, Miami, UF), the goal of school is to get a great job. Passing the bar is assumed, whether or not it actually happens. When you go to Nova, the goal of school is to not fail out and to pass the Bar. Not only is Nova not respectable, but it shouldn't be accredited and its students should be stripped of their J.D.'s, yourself included.

Does anyone else want to take a real shot at my comments? I have all day, since my 6-figure job is all locked up and I have time to relax.

Oh I missed an obvious response. 35, you are also a complete fool. I am actually surprised you have heard of the term "Big Law." You must have some friends that go to UF. FIU's bar passage rate could be 100% for the next 10 years and it won't matter. It's FIU. I don't know how that community college even has a law school. Do the professors teach in English or Spanish? There's another school that needs to be shut down. I like how kids think its going to surpass Miami because of its small class size. Give me a break. It has no alumni and a terrible reputation. It's not good when you have to explain to a potential employer that your school is accredited now. And don't tell me that this will change. It won't. FIU is for losers that want to convicne themselves that they have a future by slapping a J.D. next to their A.A. on a resume.

61: Plenty of FSU law students got into both UF and FSU but wound up in Tallahassee on account of UF's parsimoniousness with scholarship money. FSU law recruiting makes it rain.

Nearly free law school is worth the one spot ding in U.S. News rankings.

65, it's time for a dose of reality. First of all, there are exceptions to every rule. I know a guy that got an almost full scholarship to Columbia Law and chose UF. We're talking about generalities. Stop justifying everything with U.S. News rankings. Iowa and Indiana are top schools, but they don't get the same respect as many other schools ranked well behind them. Secondly, don't relish too long in your almost-UF equivalency. UF is forever going to be ranked ahead of you and it will never be more evident than next year when the class size is reduced by 100 and those 100 kids are opting for FSU. Next, "FSU recruiting makes it rain?" That has to be a joke, unless by "recruiting," you mean state government jobs. FSU is an undeniable joke compared to UF. Stop referring to the rankings. I know its all you have to base your opinion on. I understand that and I might do the same thing. Even the T-14 prestige schools play the same game. However, because UF will always be deemed a better school by reputation and by prospective students, the best you are ever goint to get is right behind us and that won't last long. You yourself admitted that the rationale for picking the worse school is scholarship money. I still wouldn't make that decision, given the low cost of UF, but I get your point. You had better throw some money my way in order to pry me from the better school.

55 here.

61- It was difficult to finish reading your post after you said that Gainesville was, in fact, a cultural mecca. That being said....

If you will carefully read my original post, I freely admitted that UF has a much larger, better connected alumni network. I'm not sure when UF founded its law school, but FSU is relatively new by comparison. This much bigger and better connected alumni network of course results in more biglaw or regional employers at OCI; not exactly a surprising outcome. I wouldn't bet on that inherent advantage, which is the product of a large head start and bigger class sizes, to last forever.

Back to my main point---- as far as any meaningful differences between the lawyers coming out of these schools TODAY, there isn't any.

As far as being green with envy that I didn't go to UF, only a law student who has never had a real job (clerking doesn't count) could come up with something that stupid..

63 - enjoy your starting your job in January...

UF's law school is 100 years old this year. They are holding a "reunion" this weekend. I'll bet the alumni will LOVE to bend the Dean's ear re the double-whammy of a drop in bar passage plus a drop in USNWR this weekend!

68, my job starts this year at a major firm and my starting date wasn't pushed back. Nor was my salary affected. Even if it was, that speaks more to the economic climate than the quality of school. But good luck selling jeans at Express with your TTT law degree.

66: Settle down. I think that "FSU recruiting" probably referred to student recruiting (which would make sense given the next sentence about free law school.)

What you're referring to is FSU placement, which may or may not be any better than UF's. With your charming attitude, though, I'm sure employers will flock to you with or without the aid of a placement office

Seriously, you're making UF look bad. Don't you have have exams you should be studying for or something?

-A less douchey Gator

67 (61 here),

I'm glad you chose to concentrate on an ancillary point to the main subject. I suppose its all relative, but Gainesville (and I mean UF, not the town) has lots of culture. Certainly more than Tallahassee, where the culture is being a redneck, thug athletes, failing in life, whores with STD's, and wishing you went to UF. One of my good friends goes to law school there and regrets every day that he didn't get into UF. He's reasonably smart, but definitely not super smart. A perfect representation of FSU. What's funny is that I actually went on a tour there when I was deciding on law schools and I distinctly remember asking my ditsy tour guide why she decided to go to FSU. She told me it was because she didn't get into UF and that it was close to home (Orlando). But back to the main point. I acknowledged your point about the alumni network. My argument is that UF is far better overall. The only thing that we don't crush you on is USNWR ranking, but that's because your small class is filled with kids who just missed the cut at UF. I'm waiting for this miraculous takeover that you claim is imminent. FSU law has been around since 1966. You really are taking your time to try and not be a crappy law school. Give it another 500 years and maybe we'll see. Also, larger class sizes have hurt UF, not helped, but that's over next year when we drop to 300 students. Good luck raking in all of our rejects. And you don't think there is an appreciable difference between the lawyers from both schools today? Are you kidding me? I can barely even dignify that with a response. Good luck getting a biglaw job in Miami coming from FSU. Good luck getting a job anywhere outside of the panhandle. To be honest, FSU isn't a terrible law school. I wish it was, so I could rip on you even worse. But the truth is that the premise of FSU law admissions is that its an institution for reasonably smart UFLaw rejects. You are crazy if you think FSU is as good or will ever be as good as UF. That will never happen and has never been the case. Tally is a terrible college town, the undergrad is awful, the reputation of the school is awful, and its a poor man's UF. Gainesville, on the other hand, is a great college town (and I don't mean city as a whole), the undergrad and law school are both great, it has a great reputation that is only getting better, and nobody that attends UF even notices FSU because its not relevant. On the other hand, if you go to FSU (law or undergrad), you can't help think what could have been. I bet 90% of the people who go to FSU Law applied to UF. And 90% of them would have gone if they got in. If I'm off, then it's not by much.

71,

To answer your question, I have 1 exam to study for in 2 weeks and the rest of my last semester classes were seminar papers/internship/trial practice. And my charming attitude landed me over 10 interviews this year, with 4 offers and a 6 figure salary. Of the 10 interviews, most were at large firms and UF placement helped with about half of those. I'm making UF look good. This process is a numbers game. Sure, I can be a huge douche. Fine. I won't even dispute that. I am a complete jerk and I don't respect law students from inferior schools. But this isn't about me. This is about UF and all the other schools. With regard to UF's placement office, I would say its slightly better than FSU, given how many firms come to each respective school and the geographic locations where firms come from. Overall placements may be similar by overall placement percentage, but FSU kids are not getting Big Law jobs or too many other high-pay jobs.

73 - What is it they say about those who live in glass houses? I'm sure there are plenty of students at the 50 schools that are ranked higher than Florida this year that don't respect law students from an "inferior," second-tier school such as UF.

LOL 70. I have a good mind to out you. See, 'cause I am pretty sure I know every single person with a major firm job, and it's pretty stupid to brag your start date hasn't been moved. I know who you are...

71, bar passage is importanct to a lot of employers, including those in FL. I'm top 5% at Barry U and many of the local firms expressed their concern that the Big Fl 3 were dipping in the bar passage rates.

39 - FIU has no chance at overtaking UM law within the next 5 years - bar passage rates are not everything.

75,

First of all, I am pretty damn sure you don't know me, unless you just know me peronally, which i doubt. And I would be shocked if you knew every 3L's big firm job and respective start date. If so, then drop me a discrete hint. Even if you do, the very idea that you would "out" someone is gross. This is a site where we can express what we think, not where we carry out our vindications. Feel free to disagree with me, but don't make comments like that. Also, I'm not bragging about my start date. My comment was in response to someone who thought that my firm started associates in January.

76,

What is Barry U? Is that a law school?

Barry is in Orlando - 4T law school

73,

Don't get too comfortable relishing in the idea that UF is supposedly 51. It won't last, guaranteed. Nevertheless, by "inferior," I meant by reputation, not yearly ranking. I happen to respect many law schools in the top 100, but also don't respect many. I highly doubt that anyone would not respect UFlaw. You might think its inferior to your school or doesn't place quite as many BigLaw jobs, but there are plenty of kids getting jobs at Sullivan, Skadden, Debevoise, White and Case, etc., that come from UF. You may think you are superior if you come from a better school and righfully so, but you have to respect that. My lack of respect was referring to schools that are poorly ranked, cost alot, and mostly can't place people in any law firm job. "Inferior" did not refer to ranking. For example, Case Western and FSU are both solid law schools and while I think UF is better, I certainly respect them, despite my prior remarks. However, if you are paying 30K a year to go to Nova, then I just can't respect that. It seems like a waste of money and you may as well retake the LSAT a million times to get a better score and get into a better school.

Well, 78. You're right. I won't out you. But I'm also a UF 3L. Suffice it to say that when you say major firm, major city, without a bumped start date, you're narrowing yourself down. Particularly when you only have one final (which suggests you did an externship or clinic this semester). By my calculation, I can narrow you down to one of three people. Once you subtract out the clerks, it's a pretty small world among people who are headed to large firms (that haven't bumped dates).

82,

Im liking this game. Go ahead and post the first and last initials of your three people and ill tell you if I'm one of them. Ill take the anonymousness gamble that you're right.

66/73 - Can you give us a region/vault range so we can confirm that we won't be working with you this summer or at least mentally prepare ourselves for the possibility that we may have to one day meet you in person?

Alright, 83. AH, AL, DG

As if I needed any greater reason to be fearful of the Florida bar. The scores are still well below those of my home state.

84,

Don't worry. I'm not working at Jamba Juice in Ft. Lauderdale. I do find it nice to know that you work in pairs and have teamed up with another person and have coordinated a little blogger attack on my personality though. I won't be summering with you though because I'm graduating. And there is nothing you can do to mentally prepare yourself for me.

The Florida bar is one of the hardest bars in the country. It was a rumor recently that the Florida Board of Bar Examiners was unhappy with how people were passing the bar so they made it harder. Either way, we have a hard bar and I don't understand why people in other states with easier bars like to give crap to those of us with the harder exam.....

88,

You are absolutely right. I think Florida has the 3rd hardest bar. Compound this with the fact that there are only 3 decent law schools and the passage rates get super low.

85,

Nice try, but I'm afraid you're incorrect. However, I don't doubt you know what you;re talking about and it took some balls to put that up on the blog. But, Im not as stupid as you think. Don't assume "major firm" is a NALP firm, although it might as well be.

90, how about CD?

91,

Nope. one of your initials is right though.

88,

I took the NY bar and the FL bar (passed both) and found NY to be much more difficult.

In fact, I though Florida was pretty easy. There aren't a lot of subjects to learn and it relatively easy to predict which subjects will be on the essay or multiple choice section of the FL portion.

I think that, based on the number of subjects tested, VA or TX are probably harder than FL too. If FL is an a difficult bar exam, then I'd like to see what an easy bar exam looks like.

53 sounds like she'll end up in a "civil rights" practice.

I am a UF alum at Biglaw and I am pissed. There is no excuse for falling out of the top tier.

Rankings matter and UF knows this (even though the administration says that it believes that they do not accurately reflect the quality of education). At a callback interview I had an attorney ask me what UF was ranked and pulled up the rankings right in front of me. Another reason rankings matter is that alum like me are not going to donate anymore until those clowns figure out how to get UF into the top 40 (where it belongs).

I agree that reducing the size of the incoming class will help UF in the rankings. However, UF could do much better if it would stop taking idiots who can't even score a 150 on the LSAT. These people have no business attending UF. However, UF is not about to stop taking these people and I will let you speculate as to why.

95,

I couldn't agree more. Minorities have no business getting into UF if their scores are lower than the average student. It's reverse discrimination and it kills UF more than most schools. Furthermore, its killing minorities because they end up putting themselves at thte bottom of the class at UF every time. I saw it myself. There are some rare exceptions, but its generally true.

I realize it's not a big player on the national Big Law scene, but the Oklahoma bar results were equally horrible. 56% pass rate for Feb takers, compared to 91% from last July. I spoke to someone at the Bar Examiners office and they said only 49% passed the MBE. (In OK you only need a composite passing score, you don't have to pass the MBE and the essays as long as the total adds up). Any other jurisidictions out there get hammered by the MBE?

Florida deliberately gears the bar exam against folks who take Barbri and other prep classes. The Barbri instructors even acknowledge that. I sat for the bar exam last July and there were portions and questions that weren't even addressed by my Barbri materials. The BBE even forces you to disclose which bar review course you took.

Luckily, I had a good education from a great law school, so that filled in the gaps with the bar review. However, I was sweating the state specific portions of the exam. I didn't go to law school in Florida, and it seemed as if someone had deliberately picked topics not covered by Barbri in certain areas. In the case of Florida, I say the MBE saves a lot of folks rather than hammering them.

97 got it right. Oklahoma's bar exam either suddenly became much more difficult ... or the students are getting dumber.

46, 47, 49, etc, etc:

I have practiced law in Florida for 11 years. I did not attend any Florida school, a point of pride. I am involved in hiring at my firm (about the closest firm to "biglaw" in Florida). I can say without hesitation that UF produces no better lawyers than FSU, Miami, or FIU for that matter. We almost never hire from UF because you represent far too great a percentage of UF grads. Entitled, ignorant, and obnoxious. Really a trifecta of miserable. Granted we rarely hire from any Florida schools, but I think that is completely understandable. For a UF grad to trash any other school is really laughable. Enjoy your miserable life, gem.

The unfortunate thing about FAMU is that its numbers just went back to normal levels They have averaged 52-55% prior to an upswing when they hired a bar prep expert who got the bar to its highest levels last year in both the February and July 2008 bars. The fools at the school couldn't keep him, he is teaching somewhere else and the new bar prep teacher is fresh out of law school with no teaching experience and no legal experience, hence the lowest bar result in the history of the bar. Their accreditation is toast now.

Famu law school the LOWEST bar--52.3%-- in the history of that school.The school has been OPEN for 7 years. ALL THE DEANS SHOULD BE FIRED.

Oy - don't know if any other commenters have stated this before, but the graduating class of December 07 (the Feb 08 bar takers) was the last summer class that UF had. That would mean that this year's February bar takers were people who had previously failed the bar and/or have been out of school for 1+ years. I think it's pretty clear that it's not the best pool to draw from if you're looking for winners.

52.3% the lowest in that school history ( famu-col)

Actually, the numbers are only for first time takers. Repeat bar takers numbers are horrible. For example, FAMU's repeat bar taker numbers are in the 20% range. The law student takes the bar, 3-4 times and then give up and tries something else. FAMU is going to have to do something over there - 7 years is not a new school. Schools like UNLV have been in existence for less time and got their accreditation quickly. Florida A&M is heading to failure and non-accreditation. The new ABA rule is going to kill them.

The Dean of famu-col states the bar passage is 80% when the 2006 bar was 54% 2007 52% and 2009 52%--- What a lie

I used the PaulLaw Books Florida Bar Exam Review purchased on eBay along with the Barbri and PMBR materials to pass this exam.

A little perspective, please folks. It is a trite cliche to denigrate the intelligence of people who happen to live South of the Mason-Dixon Line. There are plenty of dumb fuck lawyers right here in Manhattan. I am a UF grad, have had a successful 20 year biglaw career, and am still standing while thousand of brand name graduates are laid off and working at Wal Mart, or ATL. So there. It is not the name of the school on your diploma. It is whether you have brains plus the stubborn determination to do something with your brains.
There is no secret to Florida's Bar Exam. It is, and always has been, deliberately designed to keep the Yankee carpetbaggers from semi-retiring to Florida and competing with the local boys for fee income. Any one who wants to pass that exam needs to step outside the BarBri box and read a few Florida appellate cases on wills and estates. Oh, and download a free copy of the Florida Statues. Not difficult to do. And yes, the Feb numbers are spoiled by re-takers who should not be there in the first place. Just ask the NY Bar Exam folks about their February numbers. Geez.

Omg I cannot stand people like this obnoxious UF 3L. It is people like you that give attorneys a bad name. Being cocky and proud does not make you a good attorney; it makes you a douchebag and an a**hole.

Really though, why do you care so much about what school you went to. If you are a capable and intelligent person who is confident in your abilities, why are you hiding behind the name on your diploma? Enjoy working like a numbered slave at your "BigLaw' job, while 4th tier alumni own their own firms making five times your salary.

I promise you that your attitude will hurt you in practice, because opposing counsel will not want to do you any favors, judges will get annoyed by you, and your colleagues will especially steer away from you. Good luck with your career at the ever-so-prestigious "BigLaw" firm you are headed towards. Oh wait... You don't need luck, you're a UF student... hahahahaha

"its killing minorities because they end up putting themselves at thte bottom of the class at UF every time. I saw it myself. There are some rare exceptions, but its generally true."

RARE EXCEPTIONS?? 96, are you suggesting that all minorities who get into your ridiculous school aren't smart enough to be there? You're going to have a hard time as the demographics of this country change, my dear.