Did I Miss the Part Where John Yoo Actually Matters?
Berkeley Law School professor — and former Department of Justice attorney — John Yoo published his inaugural column in the Philadelphia Inquirer on Sunday. He argues that Obama should nominate somebody FDR would have liked:
Franklin Roosevelt faced exactly this dilemma. With large majorities at his back, FDR pushed through sweeping legislative efforts to end the Great Depression (which never really worked). His only obstacle became the Supreme Court, which held several basic New Deal laws to violate the Constitution’s limits on federal powers and the economic rights of the individual. Only after FDR waged a campaign to increase the size of the court and give himself more appointments did the justices surrender. The New Deal could not have survived without judges that deferred to the legislature on economic regulation.Obama could make a pick based solely on race or sex - though it’s not clear why the most empathetic judges are minorities or women - to please parts of his coalition. But if the president wants to secure the success of his economic, political, and national-security objectives, he should remember FDR’s example and choose a judge who believes in the right of the president and Congress, not the courts, to make the nation’s policies. If Obama shoots for empathy instead, he will give Senate Republicans yet another opportunity to rally around a unifying issue where they better represent the majority of Americans.
Wait, so now FDR’s court packing scheme was a good idea? Because it hobbled SCOTUS and forced them to defer to Roosevelt’s amazing enhancement of federal power? A conservative believes this?
Before we get too bogged down in Yoo’s argument, can somebody remind me why we care about what John Yoo has to say?
The left (over) reacts after the jump.
It seems the mere presence of John Yoo in public without his mouth covered in skin like Keanu trying to make his phone call in the Matrix is enough to make the left flip out. In the Philadelphia Daily News, Will Bunch loses his lunch over Yoo’s new gig:
But while promoting public discourse is a goal of newspaper commentary, it should not be the main objective. The higher calling for an American newspaper should be promoting and maintaining our sometimes fragile democracy, the very thing that Yoo and his band of torture advocates very nearly shredded in a few short years. Quite simply, by handing Yoo a regularly scheduled platform for his viewpoint, the Inquirer is telling its readers that Yoo’s ideas — especially that torture is not a crime against the very essence of America — are acceptable.This is exactly the kind of “on one hand, on the other hand” cowardly practice that has become a cancer destroying the moral DNA of America’s newsrooms. “On one hand, torture is not only immoral but a violation of international and even U.S. law, but on the other hand, check out our ‘provocative’ new columnist, John Yoo, who can’t travel to Europe because he might be arrested for war crimes!” This is wrong — horribly so. For more than five years, American newsrooms have helped to normalize the inhumane practice of torture, giving into the government’s Orwellian terms like “enhanced interrogation” and failing to call for accountability of those responsible for these crimes, including — but not stopping at — John Yoo. For a much-honored newspaper like the Inquirer to pay someone like Yoo to write a regular column is surely the exclamation point on a dark period in which most of my profession flunked its greatest moral test.
First of all, the “cancer destroying in the moral DNA of America’s newsrooms” is called “free online media.” Let’s keep our eyes on the ball boys. There’s a recession going on and we’ve got bigger battles to fight than John Yoo.
Second of all, and I could be being horribly naive here, but it seems to me that the American public is fully capable of understanding that torture is bad (this is pretty compelling evidence), or deciding that torture is awesome (‘cause sometimes it is) regardless of what John Yoo writes or where he writes it. People are fully capable of reading and enjoying a columnist without agreeing with everything (or even most things) that the writer believes.
He wrote some memos. Now he is a law professor. Did I miss the part where he flew down to Guantanamo with Sayid from Lost and tortured “the others?”
I just can’t figure out why we’re talking about him. I’m writing about him right now and I don’t know why I’m doing that. Now I’m part of the freakin’ problem! I’m a hypocrite! How did this happen to me? I hate myself.
Maybe Yoo should be in prison. Maybe he shouldn’t. But I’m almost positive he’s got the right to say whatever he wants. And if somebody wants to publish it, I’m pretty sure that is okay too. John Yoo’s Sunday column is not going to destroy America, it’s not going to make our children grow up to be torturers.
I see no reason. I find no evil. This man is harmless, so why does he upset you?
He’s just misguided. Thinks he’s important. But to keep you vultures happy I shall flog him.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go find some law student who completes take home exams in the nude to write about. You know, something important.
Closing Arguments: Obama needs a neutral justice [Philadelphia Inquirer]
Inquirer defends the indefensible: A monthly column by torture architect John Yoo [Philadelphia Daily News]
The Philadelphia Inquirer and Yoo [WSJ Law Blog]




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First ! Winner!
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2=pwn3d.
--1
These pretzels are making me asian
If no one cares, why did you post it? How did you ever get into the Ivy League Elie? Was it being black, or did you indicate that you had a disability under the ADA (morbid obesity)?
Did I miss the part where Elie Mystttal actually mattered?
Did I miss the part where anybody cares what Elie Mystal thinks?
Elie Mystal, Superstar. Oh yeah!
John Yoo certainly "matters" a hell of a lot more than you do, Elie. NOBODY is talking about what you think.
"Maybe Yoo should be in prison. Maybe he shouldn't. But I'm almost positive he's got the right to say whatever he wants. And if somebody wants to publish it, I'm pretty sure that is okay too."
What you mean to say is "he's got the right to say whatever he wants (as long as it isn't a memo analyzing the legal implications of enhanced interrogation). And if somebody wants to publish it (or leak the classified document to the media), I'm pretty sure that is okay too."
What a disappointment. For a second I thought this post was about David Lat getting back from vacation.
What does "TTT" mean?
I don't think John Yoo matters.
He's a sad little man that, some day, should fall back into total obscurity. It would be nice if that obscurity did not come with a paycheck, but alas, the world is not a fair place.
Ease up on Elie already. Jeeze.
On an abstract intellectual plane, consider this question --
Is repeatedly cockpunching John Yoo considered to be torture?
On a more serious note, would John Yoo be willing to consider being waterboarded 183 times in sequence? If not, then he has no grounds for arguing that it is not torture.
Is that another picture of the chick from the Dealbreaker ads?
This is just John Yoo angling for the nomination, which, as has been widely discussed, he has a pretty good chance of getting anyway. Non story.
Because John Yoo mattered more than you ever will, you fat piece of shit.
John Yoo's research assistant who took this job for the contrarian cred in his COA App should be ashamed of this illogical nonsense.
No Elie,
you did not miss the part where John Yoo actually matters. He does not.
As for the the anonymous conservatttive whiners taking shots at you without having the balls to attach their names to the posting..hell they matter even less.
I am done for this thread now, so lettt Limbaugh's babies pour their frustrations out.....I'll miss the part where it matters....
14 -- Would you be willing to clean toilets at a Motel 6 for a year? No? That must be torture too.
"Before we get too bogged down in Yoo's argument, can somebody remind me why we care about what John Yoo has to say?" Answer: The same reason why we care what a blogger with the writing ability of a toddler has to say.
Former Thelen and current Orrick partner the Glass Cock here, applauding Elie for a spot on imitation of Admiral James Stockdale circa 1992.
A column in the Philadelphia Inquirer? Isn't that included in the very definition of no longer mattering?
That's it, I'm done with this blog. Above the Law has jumped the shark. Thanks, Elie, for destroying it. Goodbye.
14 - Good analysis retard. 1) It was not 183 sessions, it was 183 water pours. Good sensationalism though.
I guess all DAs should be fired since I'm sure none of them would be willing to go to prison. Any judge that believes in the death penalty should be removed from the bench. I'm fairly certain none would volunteer to be executed. Why would he be willing to be waterboarded? What has he done wrong? It's obviously displeasant, and it's obvious that only terrorists have gone through this treatment.
Christ, Elie. It's clear from your discussion of the quoted passage (even to a liberal democrat like me) that you don't even understand Yoo's argument, which has nothing to do with packing the court.
"I'm almost positive he's got the right to say whatever he wants. And if somebody wants to publish it, I'm pretty sure that is okay too. "
It's also okay to criticize the Philadelphia Inquirer for paying John Yoo to spew his inane horseshit.
"People are fully capable of reading and enjoying a columnist without agreeing with everything (or even most things) that the writer believes. "
Thank you for letting us know what "people" are capable of doing. Did you know that "people" are also capable of telling lies to promote a cause that involves the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings? I hope you know that. After all, that's what John Yoo, Bybee, Gonzalez and the other psychos in the Bush Administration did.
What you failed to point out, of course, was that back in 2001-2003 a lot of "people" in America believed the lies that the Bush Administration told about Saddam Hussein, his access to nuclear weapons, and his links to al Qaeda.
I'm sure you weren't one of those gullible people, though.
"I'm almost positive he's got the right to say whatever he wants. And if somebody wants to publish it, I'm pretty sure that is okay too. "
It's also okay to criticize the Philadelphia Inquirer for paying John Yoo to spew his inane horseshit.
"People are fully capable of reading and enjoying a columnist without agreeing with everything (or even most things) that the writer believes. "
Thank you for letting us know what "people" are capable of doing. Did you know that "people" are also capable of telling lies to promote a cause that involves the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings? I hope you know that. After all, that's what John Yoo, Bybee, Gonzalez and the other psychos in the Bush Administration did.
What you failed to point out, of course, was that back in 2001-2003 a lot of "people" in America believed the lies that the Bush Administration told about Saddam Hussein, his access to nuclear weapons, and his links to al Qaeda.
I'm sure you weren't one of those gullible people, though.
Disregard everything this slick guy says! He was one of Bush's cronies at the justice department and, I believe, is being investigated for the "torture" opinions he wrote...
So, I would read his comments as a blatant trick... simply disregard him, as most of the bar has.
17, FYI John Yoo is also considered by many to be a fat piece of shit. Consider your words carefully.
15: "It's obviously displeasant, and it's obvious that only terrorists have gone through this treatment."
Did I mention that there are gullible "people" in this country? Here is a prime example. Or maybe it's a troll pulling our legs. You have to wonder because it's almost impossible to believe that anyone could be so stupid.
Almost.
"He wrote some memos. Now he is a law professor. Did I miss the part where he flew down to Guantanamo with Sayid from Lost and tortured "the others?"
No, you missed the part where he bogused up his legal argument to give sanction torture. And then you missed the part where the resulting torture put a giant fucking stain on our souls and on our reputations. And then you missed the part where anyone who captures an American soldier will feel entitled to torture them. So yeah, you did miss it.
"He wrote some memos. Now he is a law professor. Did I miss the part where he flew down to Guantanamo with Sayid from Lost and tortured "the others?"
No, you missed the part where he bogused up his legal argument to give sanction to torture. And then you missed the part where the resulting torture put a giant fucking stain on our souls and on our reputations. And then you missed the part where anyone who captures an American soldier will feel entitled to torture them. So yeah, you did miss it.
14 = stupidest comment I have ever read on here. I have never felt inspired to comment before..but that is too much. Good luck with the legal profession.
"There's a recession going on and we've got bigger battles to fight than John Yoo."
Talk about over-reacting. Some people criticize the Philadelphia Inquirers editorial decisions and Elie pretends that "the left" has forgotten about the recession.
Sorry, friend. I'd prefer to keep the heat on Yoo at least until he moves his disgraced ass out of my state. Likewise with Nancy Pelosi. I've little tolerance for worthless liars (and no, wingnuts, that doesn't make me a fascist).
A young lawyer willing do to anything his boss asks. This isn't some abstract person somewhere. It could be me or even Yoo!
I found a caterpillar on my park bench. I'm going to sue the city for "torture" and I fully expect the ACLU, the National Lawyers Guild, and other Red organizations to provide legal counsel.
I've never understood the big deal about waterboarding. I used to go on the waterboard ride at Six Flags when I was a kid. Granted, it wasn't the greatest, but I actually kind of liked it.
"And then you missed the part where anyone who captures an American soldier will feel entitled to torture them. So yeah, you did miss it."
Great point, 32/33. Because prior to Yoo's memos the enemy never did things like behead captives or REALLY torture and then kill captured soldiers.
Shit birds, waterboarding works. Spare me your argument about what this may or may not expose Soldiers and Marines to unless you are willing to go soldier for a while. This enemy doesn't bother torturing, they just go ahead and cut your head off.
But don't worry, when your pro bono efforts in Khost go awry, just remind Mullah Omar that you had his back on the blogosphere and maybe he'll knock you out before filming your murder.
Dude -- nice tirade!
"There's a recession going on and we've got bigger battles to fight than John Yoo."
I like where this is going. I'm just thinking out loud here, but could we have a claim against Yoo on a theory of promissory estoppel? I mean, if we acted in reliance to our detriment on his theories, and they proved to be half-assed and wrong, we might have a valid claim against him. Is anyone familiar with Restatement section 90? This might be useful here.
39--33 here. Your point is silly. The question is whether these torture memos will have a marginal effect on the torture of Americans. And gosh, I have to assume they will.
"the ACLU ... and other Red organizations "
In the wingnut's mind, it's always 1953. And these clowns wonder why how they became a marginalized group of dead-enders?
God forbid a conservative have his opinion published in the media...I mean, it's OK for Wanda Sykes to wish bodily harm on Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney, but the moment someone speaks ill of Goddess Pelosi, the media fries them.
What we have here is a prime example of liberal fascism, where free speech is OK so long as you side with liberals, but the moment you say something against the liberal agenda (see Ms. California), they call you a monster and try to destroy your career. Freedom of speech indeed...
#26--Exactly right.
Elie, learn how to read.
Shit birds, waterboarding works. Spare me your argument about what this may or may not expose Soldiers and Marines to unless you are willing to go soldier for a while. This enemy doesn't bother torturing, they just go ahead and cut your head off.
But don't worry, when your pro bono efforts in Khost go awry, just remind Mullah Omar that you had his back on the blogosphere and maybe he'll knock you out before filming your murder.
#26--Exactly right.
Elie, learn how to read.
"Shit birds, waterboarding works."
Says the people doing the waterboarding. And now--look--you! You've got me convinced. Thanks for your contribution.
Elie, that's a great picture of you. Have you lost weight?
Wingnut freak: "Spare me your argument about what this may or may not expose Soldiers and Marines to unless you are willing to go soldier for a while."
You mean like this? "A jury yesterday convicted a former US soldier of raping and fatally shooting a 14-year-old Iraqi girl after killing her parents and younger sister. the plot against the family was hatched among Green and fellow soldiers who were playing cards and drinking alcohol at a checkpoint.. Talk turned to having sex with Iraqi women when one soldier mentioned the al-Janabi family, who lived nearby..."
Tell me more about "this enemy" you keep referring to.
The irony of Elie Mystal asking whether John Yoo is relevant is suffocating.
Wingnut freak: "Spare me your argument about what this may or may not expose Soldiers and Marines to unless you are willing to go soldier for a while."
You mean like this? "A jury yesterday convicted a former US soldier of raping and fatally shooting a 14-year-old Iraqi girl after killing her parents and younger sister. the plot against the family was hatched among Green and fellow soldiers who were playing cards and drinking alcohol at a checkpoint.. Talk turned to having sex with Iraqi women when one soldier mentioned the al-Janabi family, who lived nearby..."
Tell me more about "this enemy" you keep referring to.
John Yoo matters to me.
Jeb says that he will put Yoo on the
Supreme Court during his administration.
Listen, all I know is my dry cleaner said the stain on my shirt was there when i brought it in. I waterboarded him for like 3 minutes and he totally admitted he spilled his coffee on it. Ipso facto, waterboarding works.
Ellie, you're the worst editor of a blog intended primarily for educated, cultured individuals that I have ever seen. You suck.
Yeah, 14 is pretty dumb, but 25 wins that cake: "obvious that only terrorists have gone through" waterboarding?
1. That would not be okay, if it were accurate. 2. It's not accurate. Um, SUSPECT versus, you know, convicted criminal? 3. What 33 said. 4. "Displeasant"?
Enjoy your "Morally Crippled Dumbass" cake, 25.
Jesse Ventura got waterboarded, and he became governor of Minnesota. That means waterboarding makes you awesome.
LOL: #44 thinks all socialists and communists have been eradicated from the United States. Ha, ha.
Watch as an anti-war protest run by liberals -- aka communists -- is infiltrated by an undercover conservative who asks them, "Wouldn't it be great to replace the Constitution withthis Communist Manifesto?"
The commie's response: "We're trying to every day."
ENJOY:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/01/jason-mattera-on-hot-air-tv-abolish-greed/
LOL: #44 thinks all socialists and communists have been eradicated from the United States. Ha, ha.
Watch as an anti-war protest run by liberals -- aka communists -- is infiltrated by an undercover conservative who asks them, "Wouldn't it be great to replace the Constitution with this Communist Manifesto?"
The commie's response: "We're trying to every day."
ENJOY:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/04/01/jason-mattera-on-hot-air-tv-abolish-greed/
I hope John Woo gets kicked in the balls by Michelle Obama in the near future.
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.
59 - don't you belong trolling some other fucked up website trying to kill people. I hear Craigslist has an opening for a new Bat shit crazy dude.
"here is a prime example of liberal fascism .... Freedom of speech indeed"
Love it. It's "fascist" for people to complain that a newspaper is giving editorial space to a retard law perfesser who advocated for an interpretation of the Constitution that gives absolute power to the President anytime a "war" is declared.
But when the Dixie Chicks said they were ashamed to be from Texas, it became "patriotic" to burn their records.
Repukes, wingnuts and fundies are the most pathetic, clueless, hypocritical asswipes on the planet.
#61 makes such strong arguments, I assume he works for the Obama Administration.
57: And your evidence that innocent, non-terrorists have been waterboarded is what? Code Pink pamphlet? Talking cat?
Because John Yoo is a patriot - unlike you and your liberal friends.
This is what I said six years ago:
Official proclamation, June 2003:
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
June 26, 2003
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture
Today, on the United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture, the United States declares its strong solidarity with torture victims across the world. Torture anywhere is an affront to human dignity everywhere. We are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law.
Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right. The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, ratified by the United States and more than 130 other countries since 1984, forbids governments from deliberately inflicting severe physical or mental pain or suffering on those within their custody or control. Yet torture continues to be practiced around the world by rogue regimes whose cruel methods match their determination to crush the human spirit. Beating, burning, rape, and electric shock are some of the grisly tools such regimes use to terrorize their own citizens. These despicable crimes cannot be tolerated by a world committed to justice....
The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy. I further urge governments to join America and others in supporting torture victims' treatment centers, contributing to the UN Fund for the Victims of Torture, and supporting the efforts of non-governmental organizations to end torture and assist its victims.
No people, no matter where they reside, should have to live in fear of their own government. Nowhere should the midnight knock foreshadow a nightmare of state-commissioned crime. The suffering of torture victims must end, and the United States calls on all governments to assume this great mission. [Emphasis added]
So, 62, because they did it, you are going to do it. Nice. Who's the dumb one here?
So, 62, because they did it, you are going to do it. Nice. Who's the dumb one here?
"#44 thinks all socialists and communists have been eradicated from the United States"
This form of deep retardation has an immediately recognizable and putrid scent. Specifically, it's the smell of his parent's basement, a sweat and piss-stained futon, and moldy Cheetohs.
Look, bro', I know that socialists and communists have not been "eradicated". There's a reason for that and it's called the First Amendment. Moreover, as Americans see what happens when control of the country is given over to capitalist pigs and fundamentalists, they realize that socialism is far better.
It's too bad if you don't like this. Go buy some guns and start killing people if you think it will help. I doubt it will but I'm sure your "sources" will persuade you otherwise. In any event, you can die a martyr then. Does any of this sound familiar? In addition to your extreme ignorance, you have more in common with "the enemy" than you'll ever be capable of appreciating.
-53
You are an idiot. That individual will be put in jail, by the US, for the rest of his life. The terrorist that kill Americans and send out videos are worshiped as heroes in parts of the world. If you think we are the enemy, leave.
We get it Elie, you're a liberal. Seriously. We get it.
We don't come to this blog for your political opinion, we come for legal gossip.
Will Bunch said: "Yoo's ideas -- especially that torture is not a crime against the very essence of America -- are unacceptable."
Uh, Yoo said just the opposite. He said that torture is a crime. Hope this helps!
"No people, no matter where they reside, should have to live in fear of their own government. Nowhere should the midnight knock foreshadow a nightmare of state-commissioned crime. The suffering of torture victims must end, and the United States calls on all governments to assume this great mission. [Emphasis added] "
All true. The terrorists are not citizens of the U.S. Therefore, they can fear our government . . .it's not their own. You in fact should fear the enemy government. Any person with a brain would. What's your point?
71 - dont be jealous and upset. Your candidate picked a retarded lady with 2 retarded kids as a running mate. Don't hate us. Seriously, how do you vet a candidate who'se abstinence only with a pregnant 16 year old.
You conservatives screwed yourself by being too conservative.
Get over it. Move on. You'll get another chance in 3 years.
Hope you had a hell of a piss, Lat!
Obama = Carter
"The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. "
I said it, so I meant it.
#69, wow. You're the only one advocating violence on here. You're also advocating socialism -- something that all immigrants from soviet strongholds were absolutely happy to escape.
Feel free to relocated to the beautiful countries of Cuba or Venezuela any time, though. I'm sure you'll enjoy it thoroughly.
I'm sorry your Red professors have been successful in brainwashing you.
"If you think we are the enemy, leave."
No, I don't think so, not after we just creamed the Repukkkes in one election and are going to decimate them further in the next. Plus some decent Supreme Court appointments. I'm quite happy with the direction the country is going.
"The terrorist that kill Americans and send out videos are worshiped as heroes in parts of the world."
If you think that nobody in this country is envious of our psycho soldier friend's Arab death spree, then you, sir, are the idiot.
MysTTTal
The US permits Navy Seals to practice waterboarding on each other. 77 you are a waste of space. I hope al Queda crashes a plane into your liberal ass.
74: I don't know? "Who'se" you vet a candidate who said we need to step up drug enforcement . . . all while his daughter is doing coke on film? What's the point? You can personally attack either side. All full of crooks and turds. How does this advance the conversation?
The New York Times recently published an op-ed by Muammar Qaddafi.
Still searching for Will Bunch's analysis of whether Qaddafi's words were fit to print...
79,
You make no sense. Jealous? Of what. And does the fact that some stupid redneck think that this family deserved it mean anything. You will never succeed as a lawyer. Drop out of law school now.
I have to laugh at those who say that waterboarding isn't torture. Are YOU willing to go through waterboarding plus all the "stress tests" that Army interrogators can put you through? If not, then you have no grounds for complaining. So STFU.
The keyboard courage found on this board appears to be endemic among Republicans --- who are only strong in the cause of patriotism as long as it involves someone else. Just look at Dickless Cheney -- he studiously avoided the draft during Vietnam. People like him (and you) are paper patriots who are completely ignorant of civics and the Constitution.
Kneel down before your fat god, Rushbo, and worship the gasbag.
Once again the fact that an individual is "willing" to go through something is irrelevant. I am not "willing" to go to jail either, but I might have no choice in the matter.
"Second of All" = Last. Proper grammar would have it "first of all" followed by "secondly".
LOL: "I'm quite happy with the direction the country is going," says #79.
More evidence that liberals are idiots and idiots vote liberal.
Unemployment? UP. Economy? DOWN. Poverty? UP. Liberty? Being eradicated. Government control? INCREASING.
#79: "I'm quite happy with the direction the country is going."
Ha, ha, ha......
"You're also advocating socialism -- something that all immigrants from soviet strongholds were absolutely happy to escape."
It's really not worth it to respond to something this incredibly stupid. Did you get your entire education from some religious pamphlet you picked up at a thrift store? I mean, what is your problem?
You think the immigrants were fleeing because the soviet's Social Security program was to generous? Was it the welfare programs? Medicaid? Medicare? The public schools?
The vast majority of Americans love America's socialist programs. Again, this is why the Repuke Party is sucking ass: they don't get it. Take away their anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-immigrant, anti-science agenda and you've got nothing left but catering to rich people. It's a braindead political party.
And what's hilarious is that most of us who don't breathe solely through our mouths have seen the end coming for years. Reap the whirlwind, morons.
What I said:
"Torture anywhere is an affront to human dignity everywhere. We are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law."
What I meant:
"Torture anywhere (except in the United States) is an affront to human dignity everywhere (except in the United States). We are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law (except when John Yoo tells me I can do it).
"The US permits Navy Seals to practice waterboarding on each other."
BWAHAHAAH! WInd these idiots up and watch 'em go. Are there any Repuke talking points left on your script?
As a liberal Democrat, I would just like to repudiate the shit out of the one troll here (I assume it's only one), who is advocating violence towards Republicans. Let's not forget who is an enemy and who is a domestic political rival. It's a bit of an important distinction.
Republicans "cater to rich people"???
Since the most expensive places to live in the country are the BLUEST -- that'd be SanFran and Manhattan -- I guess republicans are "catering" to liberal democrats.
All liberal arguments fall apart as soon as they are unraveled.
89, as a Russian immigrant (who is not a Republican), I think it's important to note that you have not the foggiest idea of what's coming out of your mouth (or fingers, as it were). If there is a subject you know, please stick to it. You don't know ANYTHING about the Soviet Union - that much is apparent.
John Yoo here. You people hate me because I'm hung like a freaking stallion. Get over it. Not everyone can have three legs like me.
Next time you feel the need to attack me or my views, take a look down your pants and know that I'm always going to be better than you.
- John Yoo
"Unemployment? UP. Economy? DOWN. Poverty? UP. Liberty? Being eradicated. Government control? INCREASING."
Yes, and it was 8 years of that evil liberal George Bush's and his liberal policies who brought all those changes.
At the risk of encouraging more insanity to spew from your pie hole, what liberty have you lost since January 21, 2009?
John Yoo and the entire Federalist Society can suck on my balls.
"John Yoo here. You people hate me because I'm hung like a freaking stallion. Get over it. Not everyone can have three legs like me."
John Yoo is Asian and therefore cannot have a large penis.
Fuck you 98. I do too have a large penis.
Being "asian" has nothing to do with it. Being part stallion has everything to do with it.
- John Yoo
"I just can't figure out why we're talking about him. I'm writing about him right now and I don't know why I'm doing that."
Elie, there is, clearly, a veritable cornucopia of things you can't figure out.
96, you are a victim of liberal journalism. The liberal assault on freedom didn't begin this January --- it's been going on for years.
Are you aware of the fact that DHS just released a report calling anyone who believes in the 10th Amendment might be a "right-wing extremist terrorist"? Same if you support enforcement of immigration laws already on the books.
Are you aware that libs are advancing government control of free speech... aka the "fairness" doctrine?
Are you aware that as taxes go up, you lose individual freedom?
I could go on and on. But the media doesn't want you to know about that.
"As a liberal Democrat, I would just like to repudiate the shit out of the one troll here (I assume it's only one), who is advocating violence towards Republicans"
As a liberal Democrat, I would like to point out that nobody has any idea who the hell you are talking about.
"Republicans "cater to rich people"??? Since the most expensive places to live in the country are the BLUEST -- that'd be SanFran and Manhattan -- I guess republicans are "catering" to liberal democrats. All liberal arguments fall apart as soon as they are unraveled."
Okay, I'm calling parody on this one.
So I guess it's okay if Eichmann and Goebbels would have had a column in the London Times in the late 40's? NO. There are some voices too despicable, too inhuman to allow to be heard.
John Yoo's is one of those. He should not have a law license, he should not be walking around free. We executed Japanese officials after World War II for doing the exact same thing he did.
And by that way, Sunday's column was the THIRD by Yoo in the Inquirer - not the first. But now that the Inqy is owned by Ad Agency Owner and Right-wing numbnut Brian Tierney (he was a chairman of W's 2000 campaign), it has become nothing more than the Washington Times of the Delaware Valley. What else would you call a paper that features the ravings of such world-class "intellects" as Jonathan Last (a Rupert Murdoch employee), pinhead Rick Santorum, and Charles Krauthammer?
And for an Ad guy, you'd think he would know his market better: ALLof Philadelphia and its surrounding counties went for Obama by more than ten points. It's no wonder the Inquirer is in bankruptcy - good riddance!
John Yoo should be waterboarded 183 in 30 days.
So I guess it's okay if Eichmann and Goebbels would have had a column in the London Times in the late 40's? NO. There are some voices too despicable, too inhuman to allow to be heard.
John Yoo's is one of those. He should not have a law license, he should not be walking around free. We executed Japanese officials after World War II for doing the exact same thing he did.
And by that way, Sunday's column was the THIRD by Yoo in the Inquirer - not the first. But now that the Inqy is owned by Ad Agency Owner and Right-wing numbnut Brian Tierney (he was a chairman of W's 2000 campaign), it has become nothing more than the Washington Times of the Delaware Valley. What else would you call a paper that features the ravings of such world-class "intellects" as Jonathan Last (a Rupert Murdoch employee), pinhead Rick Santorum, and Charles Krauthammer?
And for an Ad guy, you'd think he would know his market better: ALLof Philadelphia and its surrounding counties went for Obama by more than ten points. It's no wonder the Inquirer is in bankruptcy - good riddance!
John Yoo should be waterboarded 183 in 30 days.
FOR THE RECORD: I'm not "willing to go through" abortion, so will the Libs please be consistent and start referring to abortion as "torture"?
Thx.
"Are you aware that libs are advancing government control of free speech... aka the "fairness" doctrine?
Are you aware that as taxes go up, you lose individual freedom? I could go on and on. "
I don't doubt it. I mean, you forgot to edumacate me about intelligent design, the massive deposits of oil under Alaska, and how I can't take my AK-47 into Yosemite National Park.
104,
Comparing John Yoo to Adolf Eichmann has just lost you all of your credibility. Please hand in your "Take Me Seriously" card at the front desk on the way out, sir.
"Comparing John Yoo to Adolf Eichmann has just lost you all of your credibility. "
Translation: Help me. I can't parse simple analogies.
It's too simple of an analogy, that's the problem. "Bad guys are bad guys" is essentially his point, with no consideration for degrees of bad, or even if there is currently a valid and legitimate national debate over whether the target of his point is bad to begin with.
Once again, hand in your Take Me Seriously card if you're going to engage in such juvenile tactics.
What I said:
"Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right."
What I meant:
"Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right (but since terrorists aren't human, it's okay).
Someone please point out to me what law is violated by waterboarding Gitmo detainees? I've asked this question a few times on Kos and folks over there haven't been very helpful.
Mindlessly repeating Republican talking points only serves to underscore how unintelligent you are and that you are one step above the gorilla on the evolutionary scale. Do you even have opposable thumbs? Thought not.
112,
Try 11 U.S.C. § 2340.
112 -
Look up the "Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment." It has been ratified by the United States and thus is the law of the land. It forbids governments from deliberately inflicting severe physical or mental pain or suffering on those within their custody or control. SInce the Gitmo detainees are in US custody and control, waterboarding them is against the law.
115- The Convention Against Torture is not self-executing.
I agree with 104-105. Let's lock them all up. The only way we are going to achieve our utopian society where all of our needs and wants are provided by our government is to make sure that people who disagree with us are never heard from again.
117
Look up "Nacht und Nebel" where the Germans did precisely that.
My take of the current GOP is that -- If you do it to Democrats, it is not a crime; if you do it to Republicans, it is a war crime that deserves a Nuremberg trial.
Abject hypocrisy and cant, thy name is John Yoo.
John Yoo: advocated torture of suspect terrorists.
Adolf Eichmann: oversaw transportation of millions of Jews to death camps, a work he continued even when Himmler had ordered a halt.
Whatever you think of Yoo, to analogize him to Eichmann is not merely ridiculous from a logical standpoint - it's an insult to Holocaust victims.
119, the thing is, Yoo didn't even advocate torture, per se. He advocated interrogation techniques he attempted to argue (albeit, unpersuasively) were below the legal threshold of torture.
108/110, you're an idiot. The analogy was, one War Criminal IS like another. How many degrees of Crimes Against Humanity are there? You simple-minded, amoral POS.
At least we can all agree on one thing: John Yoo is hot.
Thanks 114. I've heard of that, but, to paraphrase a type of legal defense made popular by BJ Clinton, doesn't it depend on what the meaning of "severe physical or mental pain or suffering" is? You might think waterboarding causes such suffering, I might think so as well. We know that BO and McCain agree as well.
However, 105 wants to execute a lawyer who wrote a legal opinion that came to a different conclusion. That should make everyone think for a minute.
121,
You seem to be missing the point. Eichmann has been adjudicated a war criminal who oversaw the logistics of killing people by the millions.
John Yoo has not been adjudicated at all, and did not oversee the logistics of harming anyone.
Moreover, there is STILL A DEBATE over whether what Yoo advocates is even "torture" and whether it's legal or not. There is no legitimate, vibrant national debate over whether Eichmann was a good guy.
I'm not amoral, my mind is just operational.
-108/110
Hey, 117 - try learning to READ! Where did I say they should all be locked up? I said that a specific War Criminal should be locked up, but then, ReDumbicans are Proud to be Ignorant, aren't you? Which law school did your daddy get you into? Most of them require an ability to read... unless you're a Leagacy, right? Still sucking on that silver spoon? Born on third and think you hit a triple?
Go serve in the military, under fire, and come back with your nonsense.
123, you are obviously another ReDumbican who hasn't the ability to read.
"However, 105 wants to execute a lawyer who wrote a legal opinion that came to a different conclusion. "
Exactly where does it say THAT? Moron! I stated an historical fact, and you took Limbaughian liberties with my words. Yoo should get the same treatment he advocated. And You should get the same treatment he advocated as well, for being a first-class idiot.
This thread shows what one determined troll can do to a discussion. Well done, anti-Yoo guy, well done.
126,
"Torture is illegal and wrong, no matter what the suspect allegedly did, but still, we should torture the fuck out of John Yoo!"
If this is the sort of brilliance you evidently think the left is good for, God help us.
104-105-125
You are right. You did not say they should be locked up. I said that. It's called a parody, but I guess it went over your head, as I expected it would.
The rest of your questions and statements merely prove the rest of my original point.
-117
I think we should torture and execute John Yoo, Chow Yun Fat, Elie Mystal and Kosuke Fukudome.
Wow 89, just Wow.
I don't understand why so many leftist and socialists resort to, "You are stupid" remarks. Watch too much Bill Mahr?
Now, Im for programs that help people that cannot help themselves, but that bar should be set particularly low.
I would be all for giving an opprotunity to anyone and everyone that has the gumption to stand up and grab it.
I just don't understand the socialist/far left mindset. I wish someone would explain it to me.
There are winners and losers in the world...Its that simple...and until all you softy blowhards realize that not everybody is created equal (some can kick your ass and not even slow down) then we are set to deal with this kum-ba-ya crap. The rich will be miserable, the poor will realize they are still misreable and wont be rich. The middle class will be miserable bearing the burden (not financially necessarily, but one of trying to make it without complaining).
105-126
You said: "We executed Japanese officials after World War II for doing the exact same thing he did."
It is not taking liberty with your words to conclude that you would advocate the execution of John Yoo. Of course, you now advocate that I should be waterboarded, which makes me think you are merely a parody of the Daily Kos folks.
And by the way, what historical fact do you think you were stating?
-123
115 - Please remind me never to ask you for legal advise as I did not see in your analysis how you got to the conclusion that "waterboarding" = "severe physical or mental pain or suffering". But thanks for the part about "custoday and control". That helped.
Elie, you must be out of your mind.
Good show today Elie
134 -
Following WWII, the US government tried, convicted, and executed Japanese soldiers for the war crime of waterboarding Allied POWs. Other than the Bybee/Yoo "opinion," I'm not aware of any authority that disputes that waterboarding constitutes the infliction of severe physical or mental pain or suffering.
BTW - I think you mean "advice," not "advise."
Good luck with your finals.
115
I would gladly be waterboarded. It's not torture to me. I can hold my breath for 60 seconds. Waterboarding only lasts 40. Since the rules say they have to tell me how long it's going to go on for, I can take a lot of it. And I like caterpillars, they're not scary, they're our friends.
Hey lets not all forget why Mike Savage is banned from the UK...
"MOST MUSLIMS are not terrorists, but ALL TERRORISTS are MUSLIM"
Profound, really.
Continuing 139's post...
Therefore, Tim McVeigh is MUSLIM.
While we tried and executed some Japanese soldiers after World War II, I find it very hard to believe that between the Bataan Death March, Rape of Nanking, Banka Island Massacre, and the motto "Kill All, Burn All, and Loot All," the crime of waterboarding (at least instances of it that didn't actually kill someone) was treated as anything more than a side note.
Cite Please.
If you're curious, at the same time we were supposedly outraged about waterboarding, we were also killing SS officers on site and occasionally machine gunning all the guards, soldiers, etc. stationed at concentration camps when we found them.
John Yoo and the cool kids that let him hang with them are all cowards. As a gun-toting, leftist radical who has sworn an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and gone to war to do that and to combat religious fundamentalism, I can say with authority that John Yoo and all his un-uniformed cocksucking State Dept torturing fucknuts should be strapped to a board with their noses stuck to my grundle. I hereby challenge Yoo to a duel. Rubber chickens. To the death.
Oh, and for you liberals who don't know any better, the motto "Kill All, Burn All, and Loot All" was the motto of the Japanese soldiers, not ours.
Though it should be pointed out that at the same time we were apparently executing (in some alternate universe) people for non-lethal waterboarding--we also dropped a couple atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
137 - I'm not a criminal prosecutor, so I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I assume that it takes more than saying there is no "authority that disputes that waterboarding constitutes the infliction of severe physical or mental pain or suffering". You probably actually need to site to some controlling authority that states that waterboarding, as practiced by the particular defendant, is torture. And neither your opinion nor BO's opinion is going to be of much relevance.
Also, your assertion that the US government "tried, convicted, and executed Japanese soldiers for the war crime of waterboarding Allied POWs" is factually incorrect. I'm assuming you are referring to the propaganda being spouted by the war crimes expert, Paul Begala. However, Begala's claims that Japanese soldiers were executed for waterboarding has been thoroughly debunked. First, the officers were all tried for water crimes along with other charges (i.e. burying people alive, using them for bayonet practice, raping women, etc.). To say they were executed for war crimes is to say that Charles Manson was given a life sentence for trespassing.
Further, the water crimes that the Japanese officers committed were far more heinous that the water boarding being conducted at Gitmo. For example, the Japanese officers were accused of forcing water down the noses and the throats of their victims. Though probably not much more unpleasant than waterboarding, this is a pretty clear distinction.
By the way, you might be happier running along to the Daily Kos where it seems everyone is like you in their ignorance of the issue. But at least it might be fun for you all to see who can shout the loudest at how much you hate Bush for what he did to those 3 terrorists.
And thanks in advance for any typos that you might find above.
134
Waterboarding... what a joke. Have you guys never been dunked by the bully at the local swimming pool? Yeah, it sucks, but you grow some hair on your sack and move on.
144 -
The most salient point you made was the following:
"I'm not a criminal prosecutor, so I'm not entirely sure how it works"
Truer words were never spoken, so there was no reason to keep reading after you admitted your ignorance.
115
134- You should know better than to use humility and civility when debating a liberal.
Instead, just respond to facts by tossing out sophomoric insults like a two year old throwing a temper tantrum. This is much more effective and less futile.
You're welcome.
115 overstated the matter by claiming that Japanese soldiers were "executed" for waterboarding. 115 apparently was correct on the "tried" and "convicted" parts, as the following excerpt from "Waterboarding: A Tortured History" by Eric Weiner reveals:
"In the war crimes tribunals that followed Japan's defeat in World War II, the issue of waterboarding was sometimes raised. In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian. Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor."
Evan Wallach, an observer of the trials, wrote in the Columbia Journal of Transnational Law that: "All of these trials elicited compelling descriptions of water torture from its victims, and resulted in severe punishment for its perpetrators."
The US has also prosecuted its own soldiers for waterboarding prisoners. Again, from Weiner:
"On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post ran a front-page photo of a U.S. soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier. The caption said the technique induced 'a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk.' The picture led to an Army investigation and, two months later, the court martial of the soldier."
Also, according to Weiner, cases of waterboarding have occurred on U.S. soil, as well:
"In 1983, Texas Sheriff James Parker was charged, along with three of his deputies, for handcuffing prisoners to chairs, placing towels over their faces, and pouring water on the cloth until they gave what the officers considered to be confessions. The sheriff and his deputies were all convicted and sentenced to four years in prison."
Lawyers are taught that they have an obligation to the tribunal, as officers of the court, to point out authority contrary to the lawyer's argument. The lawyer's duty is to distinguish the contrary authority from the present case. Similarly, when advising a client on the law, the lawyer has an obligation to point out positions contrary to the lawyer's advice so that the client can make an informed choice. The authors of the memos at issue did not point out that the US has considered waterboarding, in some circumstances, to be a form of torture, and that is one reason why the memos are considered by some to be deficient.
"In the war crimes tribunals that followed Japan's defeat in World War II, the issue of waterboarding was sometimes raised. In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian. Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor."
-
Actually, that goes to what 134/144 was saying. Yukio Asano was convicted of using water torture on prisoners . . . and kicking . . . and punching . . . and clubbing . . . and burning with cigarettes, etc. Plus, this wasn't against one person--he did this to many. Plus, this was against people he knew to be just civilians, not against admitted terrorists who implied (as the 3 people who we waterboarded did) that they knew of attacks coming, but merely said "soon, you will know" when we asked them to stop the deaths of a bunch of civilians. Plus, as said above, what Asano did was pour water directly into people's nostrils and mouths for a half and hour at a time (that's not the modern practice of waterboarding).
I don't know about the Vietnam case, but if this stuff isn't being mentioned for Asano, I have to wonder what's being left out of those two other analogies, and if these comparisons are going to be made - it's misleading not to include that.
As you stated:
"Lawyers are taught that they have an obligation to the tribunal, as officers of the court, to point out authority contrary to the lawyer's argument. The lawyer's duty is to distinguish the contrary authority from the present case. Similarly, when advising a client on the law, the lawyer has an obligation to point out positions contrary to the lawyer's advice so that the client can make an informed choice."
The only proper use for a John Yoo is to evaluate new methods of "enhanced interrogation". We all know how keen he is to serve his country in this regard!
I suggest we start by testing a new and exciting method. Strap Mr Yoo to a table and place a c clamp over one testicle. While a Penn frat boy (they love hi jinks!) slowly screws down the clamp, Yoo has to write a 30 page memo in longhand explaining why he's not actually experiencing torture, inhuman or degrading treatment.
Why, oh why, are his talents being wasted at the Inquirier?
149 -
I don't think you can call them analogies, I think they are more in the nature of precedents, and none of them were discussed in the memos. They didn't address the 1983 Texas case, U.S. v. Parker, where the Reagan Justice Department prosecuted Sheriff Parker for waterboarding prisoners. During the trial, Assistant U.S. Attorney Scott Woodward said the prisoners who were subjected to waterboarding were not “model citizens” but they were still “victims” of torture. “We make no bones about it. The victims of these crimes are criminals,” Woodward said, according to a copy of the trial transcript. One of the “victims” was Vernell Harkless, who was convicted of burglary in 1977. Gregg Magee, a deputy sheriff who testified against Sheriff Parker and three of the deputies said he witnessed Harkless being handcuffed to a chair by Parker and then getting “the water treatment.” “A towel was draped over his head,” Magee said, according to court documents. “He was pulled back in the chair and water was poured over the towel.” Harkless said he thought he was “going to be strangled to death,” adding: “I couldn't breathe.” One of the defendants, Deputy Floyd Allen Baker, said during the trial that he thought torture to be an immoral act but he was unaware that it was illegal. His attorneys cited the “Nuremberg defense,” that Baker was acting on orders from his superiors when he subjected prisoners to waterboarding. Baker, along with the others, was convicted. As to Parker, he admitted that he had operated a “marijuana trap” on U.S. Highway 59, arrested suspects, and, according to court documents, subjected “prisoners to a suffocating water torture ordeal in order to coerce confessions.
This generally included the placement of a towel over the nose and mouth of the prisoner and the pouring of water in the towel until the prisoner began to move, jerk, or otherwise indicate that he was suffocating and/or drowning,” the complaint said, which referred to the technique as “water torture.”
Its hard to get around the fact that the DOJ considered waterboarding to be torture as recently as 1983. As you acknowledge, a lawyer has to deal with the precedents, they cannot be ignored.
MORE Big-Government fascism from the Obama Admin:
"The Obama administration has begun serious talks about how it can change compensation practices across the financial-services industry, including at companies that did not receive federal bailout money, according to people familiar with the matter.
"House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D., Mass.) is working on legislation that could strengthen the government's ability both to monitor compensation and to curb incentives that threaten a company's viability or pose a systemic risk to the economy.
GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF FREE ENTERPRISE.
Now where have we seen that in the past....
The Reds are alive and well.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124215896684211987.html
ON the issue of comparing WWII JAPAN to our interrogation of jihadists, don't let the idiots at the activist group called MSNBC misinform you.
For the most hardened terrorists, CIA interrogators had "the caterpillar." Evidently, the terrorists have gotten so fat on the food at Guantanamo, now they can't even outrun a caterpillar.
Contrary to MSNBC hosts who are afraid of bugs, water and their own shadows, waterboarding was most definitely not a "war crime" for which the Japanese were prosecuted after World War II -- no matter how many times Mrs. Jonathan Turley, professor of cooking at George Washington University, says so.
Given what the Japanese did to prisoners, waterboarding would be a reward for good behavior.
It might be: waterboarding PLUS amputating the prisoner's healthy arm, or waterboarding PLUS killing the prisoner. But waterboarding on the order of what we did at Guantanamo would be a reward in a Japanese POW camp.
To claim that the Japanese -- architects of the Bataan Death March -- were prosecuted for "waterboarding" would be like saying Ted Bundy was executed for engaging in sexual harassment.
What the Japanese did to their POWs made even the Nazis blanch. The Japanese routinely beheaded and bayoneted prisoners; forced prisoners to dig their own graves and then buried them alive; amputated prisoners' healthy arms and legs, one by one, for sport; force-fed prisoners dry rice and then filled their stomachs with water until their bowels exploded; and injected them with chemical weapons in order to observe, time and record their death throes before dumping them in mass graves.
While only 4 percent of British and American troops captured by German or Italian forces died in captivity, 27 percent of British and American POWs captured by the Japanese died in captivity. Japanese war crimes were so atrocious that even rape was treated as only a secondary war crime in the Tokyo trial, similar to what happens during an R. Kelly trial.
The Japanese "water cure" was to "waterboarding" as practiced at Guantanamo what rape at knifepoint is to calling your secretary "honey."
The Japanese version of "waterboarding" was to fill the prisoner's stomach with water until his stomach was distended -- and then pound on his stomach, causing the prisoner to vomit.
Or they would jam a stick into the prisoner's nose so he could breathe only through his mouth and then pour water in his mouth so he would choke to death.
Or they would "waterboard" the prisoner with saltwater, which would kill him.
More: http://www.anncoulter.com/
151-
149 here,
You were either misinformed when it came to Asano, or were attempting to mislead in the expectation that you wouldn't be called out on it. Once this has been pointed out to you, it doesn't seem to bother you very much.
It is with that in mind, that I am not very much concerned with your opinion on my use of the term "analogies," but just, in general, don't give much credence to what else you have to say.
If you included the other aspects when it came to Asano, I might be willing to believe that your descriptions of the other two examples weren't equally misleading.
I don't.
147 - Thanks for the tip, I will try it out.
125/126/146 - You have a small penis.
-134/144
149 -
Your response is equivalent to covering your ears and screaming "I can't hear you." You don't want to deal with US v. Parker because you can't. You don't want to deal with the Vietnam example because you can't. Simply because Asano was charged with offenses in addition to waterboarding doesn't mean that waterboarding isn't torture, or that he wouldn't have been convicted if he had been solely charged with waterboarding. If the US government hadn't considered waterboarding to be torture it wouldn't have been mentioned in the indictment. Regardless, Parker and his crew were charged with "water torture," nothing more, nothing less.
Blathering leftist pundits like Will Bunch are the exact same animal as the Jerry Falwells of the right. I shall provide a straw man argument to support my position:
Bunch: JOHN YOO IS GOING TO DESTROY THE FRAGILE FABRIC OF OUR PIOUS HOMELAND!
Falwell: GRAND THEFT AUTO VICE CITY IS GOING TO DESTROY THE FRAGILE FABRIC OF OUR PIOUS HOMELAND!