FIRST

I never thought i'd be this gay.

So gay.

Although not a peer firm, it would appear for JD that the day has arrived when it can no longer keep up with the Joneses (i.e., peer firms).

The guy who made the second comment can't get married in California.

eeeek!
-Redskin guy

5-

Or in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, etc., etc., etc. ....

Given that I have $250,000 in debt and no job, I applaud Jones Day for holding the line on salary increases for its staffers. I wish other firms would do the same. Perhaps then the firms would start hiring associates.

I would rather dance with a completely pissed off sandworm in the desert on Arrakis than deal with an irate Sallie Mae representative on the phone for hours and hours and repeatedly tell her that I simply don't have any money to repay my loans.

The only ones who "share our committment to the long-term success of the Firm" are equity partners. This is true for *all* employees of *all* firms. We know you treat us as fungible, expendible drones, ready to be cast off for any reason or no reason after years of making you ungodly rich. Do not delude yourself for an instant that we care about anything other than our next paycheck and exit strategy. You reap what you sow.

This is exactly why I, along with several other people I know, chose not to take offers at Jones Day. What little is gained from going to a firm that's a few slots higher on Vault's flawed survey pales in comparison to the uptight, tight-lipped, and downright oppressive feel tat the firm has.

Yikes.

This is exactly why I, along with several other people I know, chose not to take offers at Jones Day. What little is gained from going to a firm that's a few slots higher on Vault's flawed survey pales in comparison to the uptight, tight-lipped, and downright oppressive feel that the firm has.

Yikes.

Associates are cogs.

Staffers are smaller cogs.

Partners make things go round and money lubricates the machinery. What do we do when there is no money to lubricate the machinery? Extract blood from the cogs, greater and lesser?

I am having 3 Burrito Supremes for lunch today, in honor of Judge Sotomayor.

Louis Zaccareli

ps: I am worth more than any one else on this site.

Be the ship sinking?

5/7, or in almost all American states.

Actually, he can get married, like all other men. To a woman.

12 - KY

Jones Gay hates California.

"As we've seen around the legal industry, employees -- be they staff or associates -- are generally willing to suffer a pay freeze if it means they can hang onto their jobs."

Willing?????

Accepting to take less rather than get fired is not a is not a choice, let alone a willing one.

Another reason not to believe the hype about Jones Day. This place truly is a black box. They purportedly gave above market raises to associates in certain offices last year, but those salaries were tied to billable hour targets that are not realistic in this market. They also froze 2009 salaries for certain associates and certain non-equity partners.

Don't be surprised if you start to see partners with books of business head to greener pastures.

The management of Jones Day is taking prudent action in light of the recession. The management recognizes that while the rate of descent has slowed, the economy has not yet hit bottom. The demand for legal services will not pick up until the second quarter of 2010.

2 - Why not? We always knew you were.

Oh, wow. An Ohio firm that is in vastly superior shape than my firm, Thompson Hine.

Were I to take off my mask, you'd be able to see the look of absolute and utter shock and surprise on my face.

THOMPSON HINE - we'll work you like Jones (night and) Day, but the work will be small ball, you'll get paid much less, and (unlike Jones Day) we'll toss your ass to the curb as soon as that is what is best for PPP.

Jones Day is a sweat shop doing cranking out middle market work and tobacco lit. If you want live in Ohio and grind in obscurity no better place.

8 - And yet when you remove or damage the cogs, what happens to the machine?

Haven't you figured it out yet? If your staff is bad, or worse, angry and it impacts a clients, then your client looks unfavorably on YOU.

When I interviewed with JD, a junior associate encouraged me to "ask me any of the questions you might not have felt comfortable asking the partners." I asked, "well, generally, how are salaries dealt with here since this is a satellite office?" She said: "We don't talk about salaries here. Never ask about them. Don't worry, I won't tell the partners that you did so, but never mention them again."

And that was the day I decided not to go to Jones Day.

Biglaw Firm with PPP of 700K=TTT

JD discourages any talk about salaries so that the Zombies don't figure out how badly they are getting screwed.

18 - Precisely. Of course people are willing to either freeze or reduce their salary then be out of work right now. Amazingly clear leadership insight from their Management Committee. Good to see them putting their JDuh! to work.

This memo is professional and classy. Although no one likes a salary freeze, the firm explained its motives clearly and alleviated some concern that performance reviews will be used for stealth layoffs.

This cost-cutting measure also seems more respectful of employees than sandbagging them with healthcare cuts or an impracticable discretionary bonus plan to earn back a sliver of their reduced salaries. It is also free of ridiculous euphemisms like "we are committed to meaningfully redesigning our relationship" in place of the more accurate terms "salary freeze," "salary cuts" or "layoffs."

Anyone willing to live in Ohio deserves what they get, plain and simple.

Michael Stipe has had a chin implant, pass it on.

A tip, as a former JD lawyer -- people generally did figure out what others were paid. It's just that the relevant conversations took place under circumstances as guarded as those of members of the German Resistance movement in areas of high Gestapo activity and always within one's own group or class. Never between ranks (i.e. partner-associate, associate-staff). And that's so even if the partner gets really trashed. Which is saying something, because JD partners and successful associates tend to be legendary drinkers.

Oh, what fun to be the poor BK associates slaving under Chrysler. job security, yes...for now.

8- Don't answer the phone when Sallie Mae calls. You can use the messages to do what this guy did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtIM_TEQxwA

Let's talk for a minute on the subjects of integrity, hypocrisy, and judgment.

Let's pick a random Vault 200 firm to use as an example - hmmmm... how about my firm Thompson Hine?

Yes, that will do nicely. So, Thompson Hine partners would like to be seen in the market as being smart, capable, trustworthy and exercising good judgment.

Let's take a look at whether their actions advance those goals:

(1) February 12 - Thompson Hine does a press release to the world explaining how, in these troubled times, there are many alternatives that work better than doing layoffs.

Here's a link - http://www.thompsonhine.com/publications/publication1705.html

(2) A mere 7 days later on Feb. 12, Thompson Hine utterly ignores its own advice and does a round of layoffs (to complement the months of stealth layoffs) and passes out paycuts like it is going out of style.

Here's a link - http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/02/thompson-hine-cuts-associate-pay.html

It is obvious that Thompson Hine put a good bit of research into deciding what to do. It seems likely that they generated the information for that Feb 12 press release from their preparations for layoffs and paycuts.

So, we see Thompson Hine do a bunch of research and then release its opinion to the market - that there are superior alternatives to layoffs - and then 7 days later Thompson Hine ignores the very conclusions it just shopped around to the market as an example of its own sound judgment and outside the box thinking.

Conclusion?

THOMPSON HINE - Even we won't follow our own advice. We'll tell you doing one thing is best, but we sure as heck wouldn't follow that shit advice for our own business!

Please bear this in mind and make sure that you are showing your lawfirm the amount of loyalty that their behavior entitles them to expect.

Take your partners' clients to lunch. Don't solicit them in a way that violates ethical standards, but do make a big effort to generate meaningful relationships with them.

At lunch, tell them about that contribution you made to their project that really improved the end result. If you're like me, you're doing 97% of the work for the client and you are the one determining strategy for the projects. Don't be shy about letting the client know this. Always make sure to form this relationship with the highest place person with the client (general counsel is best).

If you do this, then you will be ready when it is time to suggest to the client that you can continue to provide them the wonderful service they've come to expect, but at a lower overall cost to them. You might do this on your timing when you've had enough of working for the firm, or maybe the firm tries to shove you out the door and you make a grab to take some clients with you.

Congratulations, you've taken initiative, demonstrated good awareness of client needs, and now it is YOUR client.

I know that I am on a friendly, first-name basis with all of my clients. Are you? If not, please remember that Thompson Hine is the sort of place that will try and reassure you that you won't get laid off and will then lay you off a mere 7 days later.

Integrity? Feb 12 and Feb 19 show what TH partners think of honesty. They are hypocrites. Ask the laid off secretaries and staff with families how much integrity this firm has.

Smart? Well, any HR intern should be able to tell you that you shouldn't simultaneously come out against layoffs while doing layoffs...

Good judgment? This is a giant sign with flashing lights to clients that this firm will give you advice THAT THEY THEMSELVES WOULDN'T FOLLOW.

So, if you don't have enough work, ask yourselves... what have you done today to improve your direct relationship with your clients?

Sincerely yours,

Rogue Associate

(TH partners - by dividing what I'm paid over the amount of time I spent writing this, I should have enough money to go buy myself a delicious lunch as a reward. While I wrote this, you've paid me enough money to treat myself to a delicious lunch. Mmmm nom nom nom, it tastes so good...)

Locke Lord crushes places like this. Total domination. Forget about it.

Wise up, people. Anyone who has taken even a basic management course will tell you that salary cuts will not save a single job. Excess capacity at $60k is still excess capacity at $55k. All this does is redistribute rents from the labor to the partnership.

Assholes partners.

Things are really bad when a partner at Thompson Hine resorts to posting anonymous negative comments about the firm and pretends to be an associate there.

Did you lose in Thompson Hine office politics or did your favorite secretary/mistress get fired without your input?

Did someone tell you that you're getting a smaller draw this year than you thought?

What?

A REAL Thompson Hine associate

When Dr. Yueh worked at Jones Day, I had to break his Imperial Conditioning to get him to talk about his salary. Then he hooked up with the Harkonnens and betrayed his Duke. Sad story, really.

K&L Gates is the king of unhelpful and untrue performance reviews.

The ship be sinking...

Six to seven JD attorneys in the Pittsburgh office have been told to "find employment elsewhere." Fortunately, they are letting us stick around until we do so...for now. I imagine this is happening in our other offices as well.

38,

Allow me to respond to your questions.

1) Yes, I agree, things are really bad at Thompson Hine.

2) How on Earth can you look at my comments and think I am a partner at this firm? It'd be fair to say that my motivations and goals are differently oriented than those of the firm's partners.

3) I've rather enjoyed working with the secretaries at our firm, and think the mistress crack shows a lack of respect/maturity. Though, I can say that several of the staff fired struck me as very nice and capable, and I am upset they were so unceremoniously dumped on their asses.

4) Haven't you been paying attention? Our firm is fucking the associates and staff first and hardest to protect PPP. That comment didn't make any sense.

5) "What?" - ummm... I need a bit more context to respond to this, I'm afraid.

Thanks for reading, and I hope you are doing what you need to do to protect yourself.

(note to the partners - I'm back from my lunch now. I went someplace fancy and it was really good. Thanks for buying me lunch.)

42 - does that include any first years? And what practice areas?

42, sorry to hear that. who conveyed the news--pic or department?

42, sorry to hear that. who conveyed the news--pic or department?

44 - They won't tell us the names, so I don't know the class years (but I doubt it is any first years - instead, seems mostly focused on senior associates) - but I do know the products liability group took a hit.

Nobody gives a rat's ass about staff.

PPP at 700K!?!?!! hahahahh are you serious?!!?

Stealth layoffs are happening.

42, out of curiosity how much time have they given you to "find employment elsewhere?" And any thoughts on whether the incoming class will actually start in October?

48,

We can and should make common cause with staff. Partners try to create an artificial rift between "staff" and "the attorneys".

Fact of the matter is, a lawfirm has "owners" and "employees".

Just like staff, we can be fired for any reason or no reason. Staff help make our jobs easier and our time more pleasant. Staff have good inside information on what is going on at a firm.

Staff see and hear things that associates don't hear about.

Staff get laid off same as us. The firm tries to cheat them out of unemployment benefits due to "performance" same as us.

Make friends with your staff. Share things with them. They'll share things with you.

You'd be surprised what you can learn about your firm from talking to staff. I know I've been very pleased with all the useful info I've managed to glean from having good relationships with staff.

Let the shit-sucking partners make common cause with each other. The enemy of my enemy is my friend (and staff are mostly friendly anyway).

Allies are valuable in tough times. Be good to your staff and they will be good to you.

(note to the partners - Your position doesn't entitle you to respect. Respect is something that an individual earns. Most of you are not worthy of respect. Mostly, with very few exceptions, we just pretend.)

Associates should not be scared of their lawfirms.

A lawfirm should be scared of its associates.

@41: How far can it sink?

45 - was told during my performance review

51 - no timeframe

Because cutting the bonuses of staff (which are usually equivalent to half of month's salary for that staff member) when said staff gets paid shit to begin with is *really* going to make the difference.

49 --
Happens when you have 775 partners.

Well said, 52.

A JD Staffer

...and they just accounced that we are getting 5 attorneys from Kirkland. Guess the staff paid for the Mexico City office and all the new attorneys!

52, I don't disagree with what you said (and it is well-written). That said, nobody gives a shit about staff. I don't give a shit about partners, either, and they don't give a shit about me. Our clients don't give a shit about any of us, and care only about what we cost.

39 - Please, for the love of all that is literary, read a different book or, more likely, watch a different movie.

Dune is NOT reality.

Rogue Associate,

Good afternoon. Please check yourself into a mental institution. You are clearly a f_cking whack job. Have a nice day.

-Observer

52 - Well said. It is a great game that is fun to watch. If the equity partners (read owners) have you focusing an Us against them mentality on staff, then you take your eye off the ball they don't want you to see.

To 62 ("Observer") - a JD Partner for sure. I recognize the typical passive-aggressiveness.

62 - You must be an equity partner and what Rogue posted hit too close to home for you.

60,

Your point is fair, but allow me to suggest that your opinion is exactly the one the partners want us to have about staff (and for staff to have about us).

Staff and associates can't prevent each other from being laid off... neither side has the power.

What we can do is share information. Information is power. Partners are a lot like cockroaches - they like to do their nasty, grimy business in the dark where no one can see. So, let's turn on some lights and watch the bastards scurry.

I don't see my partners' emails. You know who does? Staff.

You know who knows fun embarrassing secrets about the partners? Staff.

Guess who knows how partners divvy up work... staff.

Who knows a partner's calendar and can see the extent of their efforts to drum up new business? That's right, you need to talk to staff if you want to know that. (incidentally, most partners are putting forth very little effort at drumming up new business. Turns out they'd rather go home with their fat paycheck rather than go to evening business/social functions to generate business).

How much do you think it pisses staff off to see their hard working friends get laid off so that some asshole partner that makes literally 25 to 35 times more money can avoid a 5-7% decrease in PPP? In my experience, they are pretty pissed.

If partners can convince staff and associates that we can't do anything for each other, then it will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

Lastly, staff have the best back channel communication methods. Effective and discreet.

Want to hear my best guess as to why so many Thompson Hine people have heard about my rants and stop by for a gawk and a laugh each day?

You guessed it. Staff.

-Rogue Associate

p.s. Everyone (staff and associates) should always remember to protect themselves. Partners are looking for any reason (no matter how arbitrary) to fire more people. Use discretion.

62,

I am a fucking whack job.

Never forget it.

However, I will respectfully decline your invitation to check myself into an institution. I have, as yet, unfinished business with the partners of Thompson Hine.

Eye ahm in yer lawferm. U Cannnnot staup mi.

66 - And don't forget the obvious, get to know your HR staff well. Sometimes what they don't say, the questions they won't answer, is very telling.

I try to make my posts of interest to associates (and staff) at pretty much any BigLaw firm.

So, why do I always mention "Thompson Hine" by name in each of my posts?

Well, that's a fun question that the tech illiterate partner generation won't understand.

Here's a fun experiment:

1) Go to Google

2) Use advanced search. Search for the phrase "Thompson Hine" and restrict your results to pages within the last month.

Or don't restrict your results and just click in a page or two on your results.

Lastly, (and this is especially important for the partners) - N-JOY!

Nobody really cares about the salary freeze because what's 2-3%. Rarely did they go above that anyway. But taking away the year-end Christmas bonus is different and hit below the belt. We all know that the"recession" is just the excuse they needed. General consensus is that we'll never get our bonus back. If JD wants to cut costs, they could stop their weekly liquor parties for attorneys, quit having expensive teas/coffees on each floor, stop the additional pay to the coordinating secretaries, blah blah blah.

As a JD staffer, I didn't view this memo negatively at all. On the contrary, it's a load off my mind. We've been wondering what steps the firm would take in this obviously tough market, and this memo brought some transparency to the situation. I sincerely doubt that the cut bonus would be permanent - eventually the market will improve and there will be competition for support jobs again. Kudos to JD for keeping the long-view.

how does a prestigious firm like jonesday have such low PPP? i'm guessing they pay rainmakers like rainmakers, but all the low-level partners who dont bring in business get paid like senior associates with job security.

As a JD staffer, I didn't view this memo negatively at all. On the contrary, it's a load off my mind. We've been wondering what steps the firm would take in this obviously tough market, and this memo brought some transparency to the situation. I sincerely doubt that the cut bonus would be permanent - eventually the market will improve and there will be competition for support jobs again. Kudos to JD for keeping the long-view.

As a JD staffer, I didn't view this memo negatively at all. On the contrary, it's a load off my mind. We've been wondering what steps the firm would take in this obviously tough market, and this memo brought some transparency to the situation. I sincerely doubt that the cut bonus would be permanent - eventually the market will improve and there will be competition for support jobs again. Kudos to JD for keeping the long-view.

As a JD staffer, I didn't view this memo negatively at all. On the contrary, it's a load off my mind. We've been wondering what steps the firm would take in this obviously tough market, and this memo brought some transparency to the situation. I sincerely doubt that the cut bonus would be permanent - eventually the market will improve and there will be competition for support jobs again. Kudos to JD for keeping the long-view.

I wonder what the JD staffers think?

Rogue Associate,

I don't pull up your comments in Google. Sadly.

# 71, 73, 74 75

First of all, learn how to comment on a blog....only hit the "Post Comment" button ONCE...

...secondly, better remove those rose-colored glasses...you must be one of those that sits around all day and does nothing, while I WORK for my pay. Otherwise, you wouldn't be embarrassing yourself by making such a fluffy and uninformed comment.

As a JD staffer, I didn't view this memo negatively at all. On the contrary, it's a load off my mind. We've been wondering what steps the firm would take in this obviously tough market, and this memo brought some transparency to the situation. I sincerely doubt that the cut bonus would be permanent - eventually the market will improve and there will be competition for support jobs again. Kudos to JD for keeping the long-view.

As a JD staffer, I didn't view this memo negatively at all. On the contrary, it's a load off my mind. We've been wondering what steps the firm would take in this obviously tough market, and this memo brought some transparency to the situation. I sincerely doubt that the cut bonus would be permanent - eventually the market will improve and there will be competition for support jobs again. Kudos to JD for keeping the long-view.

37 Nailed it. This is the only take away that matters here.

71/73/74/75 is a Jones Day HR flunky trying to spam the message board with favorable propaganda.

Partly an attempt to have someone say something good about JD, partly an attempt to frustrate the real people here.

Just ignore these acts of management masturbation.

As a long-time JD Staffer, I was sad to see the memo but happy I have a job. In this economic environment anyone who has a job should be thankful!!

To be honest, I love Jones Day. I've been treated very fairly, am well compensated and am a true cheerleader for the firm. Yes, I've drunk the Kool Aid and will continue to do so.

77,

That's weird. I did the search as suggested and got pages and pages of ATL results usually including text like "my shit firm Thompson Hine" etc. etc.

Pretty funny. Searching without date restriction, I had to click through several pages of results (like page 5 or so) not 2 or 3.

Still, seems effective based on my test.

As a JD staffer, I'm not extremely surprised by this move. There are numerous options available for cutting costs and reducing the tremendous amount of wasteful actions/processes at JD, but this move is likely the simplest for them to make.

I see this as a not-so-subtle nudge for staff to continue leaving the firm "by their own accord." Departing staff, of course, won't be replaced in the near future (if ever).

hehehehe 62 said whackjob.

hehehehe 62 said whackjob.

Fried Frank already froze staff pay and unused vacation can no longer be paid out. And they did not even receive a memo. Nothing, just word of mouth.

83 -- get a life. You can tell you're part of the group that is over compensated and a JD chosen one. Rah rah for you.

It is a race to the bottom to see which firm becomes the first Salusa Secundus.

Why in the F*** are the staffers being "forced" to write performance reviews for the year if their not even gonna get any raises!!! WHAT A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME FOR THEM!!! I WOULD SCREAM AND HOLLER AND REVOLT!!

Why in the F*** are the staffers being "forced" to write performance reviews for the year if their not even gonna get any raises!!! WHAT A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME FOR THEM!!! I WOULD SCREAM AND HOLLER AND REVOLT!!

There should be no "staff" at Jones Day - or any other BigLaw firm - regardless of the economy. Attorneys are brilliant people, the cream of the crop, and should be doing their own work.

As a JD support staff, my comment to all these foolish comments by outside of JD work place -- grow up! The economy is at a standstill throughout the United States. As the staff, we are not "happy" to have to make such a sacrifice but those of us who work at JD are here because we CHOOSE to work for JD and the principles for which JD stands. We have intelligent attorneys, outstanding paralegals and staff members who work diligently to produce a work product we are proud to put our names on! It is one thing to work within JD and grumble about the goings on in the Firm, it is quite another thing to be outside and trash us! Give it up, our ship will be still sailing while you all are still playing Gilligan's Island.

94--- Well said. I'm really irked that the memo made its way to ATL. It's a family matter that should be handled internally and not so these fools can comment on things they have no understanding of.

Honey, I commend you on your loyalty, but if there's one thing I had to learn the hard way, it's that large law firms are NOT families.

94,

If you believe what they tell you really hard, drink your milk, and clap your hands, then the layoff fairy will never come visit you.

You keep making love to your TPS reports. The rest of us will be here in the real world where we see what's happening - rich greedy fucks are protecting the money they use to pay the gardener at their summer home by screwing us over!

Full agreement with 95, I'm surprised this memo got leaked -- but in hindsight, one rotten egg amongst all of the staff isn't really disappointing.

72, simple.. we make more partners. Type in Jones Day in the search field here, and there's a post about how an easy majority of associates feel that it's very plausible to make partner if they grind it out. JD isn't the only firm that follows this model, but I dare say it's one of the most successful. And stable.

96, agreed but only in general. JD is family enough, and has proven it through the economic dowturn. This move is a pinprick compared to the mass bloodshed and carnage that has been occurring almost everywhere else.

Full agreement with 95, I'm surprised this memo got leaked -- but in hindsight, one rotten egg amongst all of the staff isn't really disappointing.

72, simple.. we make more partners. Type in Jones Day in the search field here, and there's a post about how an easy majority of associates feel that it's very plausible to make partner if they grind it out. JD isn't the only firm that follows this model, but I dare say it's one of the most successful. And stable.

96, agreed but only in general. JD is family enough, and has proven it through the economic downturn. This move is a pinprick compared to the mass bloodshed and carnage that has been occurring almost everywhere else.

Speaking as a Jones Day staff member, I must say that I've been anticipating some sort of action on this, so this announcement comes (somewhat perversely) as a relief. Given the current state of the industry, I'm simply happy to have continued employment. If this is what it took for Jones Day to remain competitive, then so be it.

I prefer to take a less pessimistic view on the situation - I am inclined to believe (perhaps naively) that JD appreciates its staff. Jones Day is a business like any other and quite frankly, I'd be more concerned if they took no action at all, particularly given their PPP numbers this year. They could have just as easily announced a round of layoffs folks...

98,

Jones Day's equity partner totals are dwarfed by Baker & McKenzie's, and yet the latter's PPP is over $400,000 higher. So the argument that JD is excused of having low PPP due to a high number of partners fails. That's simply a myth.

"JD is family enough"

To even begin to draw the comparison of your employer to your family, in any sense of the word, is disturbing to me. Hopefully your family relations aren't based on financial compensation, in which you would never agree to see them if they weren't paying you a salary. Hopefully your family activities are more rewarding than your specific job responsibilities. Hopefully your family doesn't evaluate your value to the whole based on the extent of your profitability. The list goes on and on.

Eh, Jones Day did a pay freeze on staff.

So many places have done pay cuts and layoffs. After all, listen to how f***ed the Thompson Hine staff got. And their associates.

We don't have any of that BS at Jones Day. Pay freeze ain't great, but you can color me one secure feeling employee.

it's really amazing that people still believe Jones Day hasn't laid off associates.

Uh, they fired people in Atlanta. 103.

101,

So, your point is that a message board full of associates and some staff should be upset that our firm has lower PPP? Ummm... oh no!!! Lower PPP means that our partners are absorbing the downturn and shielding us from it! Yeah, see, that doesn't make any sense.

The partners profit most during boom times, and are overwhelmingly taking the brunt of it in down times. Hmmm... what's the word for that... you hear it so rarely in our industry. FAIR. Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for.

They are running a business, but they are maintaining the long view. PPP may dip, but it is an investment in recruiting edge and cultivating some loyalty.

We may work you to death at Jones Day. But at least we don't sneak up on our employees and slit their throats in a recession. That's just cold blooded. JD may not be family, but they sure as hell aren't whatever that is.

101 -- on B&K, that is correct. B&K has also experienced bloodshed, associate salary cuts, the works. 98 wins.

103 and 104,

Find me a firm that doesn't do some variation of stealth layoffs, ever, and I will resurrect White & Case/Latham/etc. execution victims at will.

The recession has done little but prove that the JD model works even in non-boom times, unlike that of DLA or Baker.

Employees of JD should really be thankful to have a job.

But at least we don't sneak up on our employees and slit their throats in a recession.
_______________________
Yet.

JD Attorney here... what bothers me more than anything is that this was not announced to the firm today. The only notice I received was here on atl.com. Dude, I work with and rely on the staffers, I don't think it is unreasonable to let the attorneys know what has happened.

That, more than anything, inspires insecurity.

JD lawyer here. I know for a fact that there has been several rounds of stealth lay offs that are big ones too, at least for certain Asian office(s). On top of all the sackings of lawyers, there has been salary cuts of 10% or more for lawyers and staff so this article on pay freeze is definitely not accurate. Who would want to join / stay with JD given that there are no bonuses during the good times (for certain Asian office(s)) and in bad times, they lay people off? The comments on secrecy of salary levels are so true in this firm. Everything is veiled in secrecy, from salary levels to the way an attorney is evaluated. You have no idea who criticised you given that you only get a "consensus statement" at the evaluation meetings. On top of that, the whole process is an invitation to backstabbing given that the system allows for "unsolicited comments" on a lawyer, including his personality, his work, etc. I have never come across any law firm that does not permit two way evaluations - this is something that really bothers alot of people here judging from past comments I received. Bravo to the person who made the comment above on not choosing JD after hearing from an associate about how discussions of salary is "discouraged". JD has always been run like a little kingdom with power belonging to one individual, and all the other minions (partners or the very chosen few) run around like scared little boys shaking at the mere mention of his name. I am definitely one of the JD lawyers who will be moving to greener pastures.

Great points, 111. The lack of two-way evaluations has always bothered me. It somehow defeats the cultivated message of the value of "constructive criticism" when the party delivering it doesn't want to receive the same in return.

JD's PPP is low because their billing rates are lower for many cases - they can't charge NY rates when they have senior partners doing fourth year associate work.

Good for JD for not laying off staff, but I echo the comments about stealth layoffs at JD - definitely happening in various JD offices.

The greener pastures are endless. Anywhere we go, we are at war (what is this, Terminator Salvation?) JD is one of the few firms I know of which actually awards loyalty despite the myriad possible complaints. Those gripers who leave -- thank you.

And 113, yes, they do tend to charge lower while providing superb quality legal service. And thus are beloved amongst the Fortune 500. Any wonder they're floating (relatively) while others sink?

apparently beloved by Kirkland, as well - http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202431028087

111 - former JD partner here. You're right to get out of the firm while you can. You don't sound happy there.

It doesn't get better as JD associates become partners (also known as "glorified associates"). The secrecy continues. Partners don't receive much information from management, they don't vote on anything, they are not consulted, they don't receive feedback and they may not discuss compensation (or even whether a partner is fixed income or equity). They really do not receive any more respect from management than associates do. They are slightly better informed than associates because they learn one day before associates of material developments. But it is, as they say, first and foremost a profession and not a business. It is not a meritocracy nor a democracy, where the Managing Partner can ultimately decide compensation and make all other decisions. It's efficient like a dictactorship, but perhaps less benevolent than usual in these difficult economic times.

While it may feel like family at first, in the end you learn it is not. It's a job. And JD is a fine firm with some great lawyers.

I believe one should find work (including a lawyer in a firm or company) where she is happy, hopefully matching one's values with the culture of the firm. I am now happy at a firm that is a democracry (ie, partners are kept informed, consulted and vote) and a meritocracy (where one is compensated on performance rather than which clique she belongs to).

Hopefully you find the right place for you.

As a current Jones Day staffer, all I can say is SAVE ALL THE MONEY YOU CAN; it doesn't sound too promising.

As a current Jones Day staffer, all I can say is SAVE ALL THE MONEY YOU CAN; it doesn't sound too promising.

There has been so many changes with JD in the past year. Okay for no raises this year, but cut the year end bonus? No one understands how devistating that was to hear from my spouse! When you are buying Christmas gifts for 5 children and to find out that you will not have the funds to do so this year is very sad for the families of the JD employee. I just have to keep telling myself it could be worse. At least they all still have jobs....for now anyways. Keep your heads up to all of the lower salery employees of JD.

There has been so many changes with JD in the past year. Okay for no raises this year, but cut the year end bonus? No one understands how devistating that was to hear from my spouse! When you are buying Christmas gifts for 5 children and to find out that you will not have the funds to do so this year is very sad for the families of the JD employee. I just have to keep telling myself it could be worse. At least they all still have jobs....for now anyways. Keep your heads up to all of the lower salery employees of JD.

At JD-NY, I can't say how many associates have been asked to leave, but not many (far less than 10) have actually left over the past 6 months. We'll see what happens over the next 6, but this alone would seem to create a distinction between JD's NY offices and some of the others mentioned. Unless someone can correct me...

As a JD staffer, here goes it, I am not surprised by the fact that there would be cuts given the market and the current economic times we face - I can accept that! Because look at Ford, Chrysler, I think you get the picture... I can understand cutting the bonus because I were at firms prior to JD where there were years you received one and the next year nothing. However, but, pay raises too! C'mon there are other things that could have been cut this year. Let's see these children (because that's what they are) come for three months out of the year - yes, Summer Associates, play and kiss up, do nothing but have fun all summer long and smoozing at some Partner's house who doesn't give a mere care about who you are and will probably forget you the next day or the next year for that matter....

Truthfully, I think this should have been the target area and we should have still received the raises. If nothing else this is what you work hard all year for and to know you get nothing for that is a disgrace to mankind!

As a JD staffer, here goes it, I am not surprised by the fact that there would be cuts given the market and the current economic times we face - I can accept that! Because look at Ford, Chrysler, I think you get the picture... I can understand cutting the bonus because I were at firms prior to JD where there were years you received one and the next year nothing. However, but, pay raises too! C'mon there are other things that could have been cut this year. Let's see these children (because that's what they are) come for three months out of the year - yes, Summer Associates, play and kiss up, do nothing but have fun all summer long and smoozing at some Partner's house who doesn't give a mere care about who you are and will probably forget you the next day or the next year for that matter....

Truthfully, I think this should have been the target area and we should have still received the raises. If nothing else this is what you work hard all year for and to know you get nothing for that is a disgrace to mankind!

113, why would senior partners ever do associate level work? is this in the smaller markets?

JD must be paying some partners well enough to bring in people from kirkland
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202431028087

Come on! "Stealth" Layoffs? How about Performance Related Terminations. Do you think every single new lawyer is so great the firm would never, ever let them go no matter how poorly they performed? Sorry. Jones Day has the best lawyers and if you're not up to snuff, you're asked to leave. And as far as I know Jones Day doesn't publish their PPP -- the figures being thrown around are made up by AmLaw and some number cruncher trying to figure out what it could possibly be.

I guess they're going brogan.

If JD were a movie, it'd be "Watchmen." Often polarizing, singular, cursed by the ignorant and castaways and loved by those loyal to it. And frankly -- at the end of the day -- damned good.

124 - no one knew things would get quite this bad around summertime last year. many other big firms are getting rid of staff departments altogether. your disappointment is wholly understood, but stick with it; better times are ahead.

The Holy Grail to Investing.

Developed multiple arbitrages for the financial markets. Arbitrages that produce just a few percent a year, to arbitrages that produce over 30 percent a year.

In 2001 i started developing, as of now, a dozen arbitrages. I lock in an X percentage, and Y time later, i close out the arbitrage. Over 30%/yr.

Risk-Free Investing is not only possible, but in abundance. Just that people are told and taught that it is impossible. No risk has been in front of all, but not seen.

The market is unlimited.

The Ultimate business solution that can be offered.

Say one can guarantee a return on investment of 40% a year, then a business could offer their product or service for free.

Lets say i had a solar company, and that company offers Alternative energy to both private and business sector's, then we end up with an interesting business solution.

Well, if i have a cost of $10,000 to install a solar system on a building, and able to sell the install for $20,000, i have $10,000 to invest(40% a year). The purchaser then finances the install over a period of time. I just keep investing the profit till the end of the payment schedule. Thus, the buyer never makes a payment, and gets the product at no cost.

Thomas Adair
thomasadair@hotmail.com

The Holy Grail to Investing.

Developed multiple arbitrages for the financial markets. Arbitrages that produce just a few percent a year, to arbitrages that produce over 30 percent a year.

In 2001 i started developing, as of now, a dozen arbitrages. I lock in an X percentage, and Y time later, i close out the arbitrage. Over 30%/yr.

Risk-Free Investing is not only possible, but in abundance. Just that people are told and taught that it is impossible. No risk has been in front of all, but not seen.

The market is unlimited.

The Ultimate business solution that can be offered.

Say one can guarantee a return on investment of 40% a year, then a business could offer their product or service for free.

Lets say i had a solar company, and that company offers Alternative energy to both private and business sector's, then we end up with an interesting business solution.

Well, if i have a cost of $10,000 to install a solar system on a building, and able to sell the install for $20,000, i have $10,000 to invest(40% a year). The purchaser then finances the install over a period of time. I just keep investing the profit till the end of the payment schedule. Thus, the buyer never makes a payment, and gets the product at no cost.

Thomas Adair
thomasadair@hotmail.com

I'm a JD staffer and for one was not surprised or upset by the memo. Truth be told the writing was on the wall for a while if you CHOSE to pay attention. With many other firms drastically laying off staff & cutting their salaries by as much as 15%, you would have to live in LaLa land to think that JD was just flying so high that they were immune to what is going on in our current economy.

If that wasn't a tell tale sign the fact that certain 'goodies' once taken for granted like the free hot chocolate in the pantry that is now 50 cents in the cafeteria, should have been wake up call.

Am I happy that I'm not getting a raise or a bonus this year. Heck no. But I would much rather prefer to continue to receive a paycheck, than to have received a memo.. or worse.. an emergency meeting in a conference room to tell me I had 15 minutes to clear all of my stuff out and not come back.

I've worked in many firms and by FAR JD is the the most prudent and the classiest in how they deal with these situations. I'm grateful to hear in MAY that I should not expect a holiday bonus, than to have received this news on December 1st. To the disgruntled people... count your blessings! You have many compared to many other firms that are listed on this blog.

I love whack jobs - Rogue, you are COOL

And all you JD staffers relieved to still have a job, believe me, when PPP goes down even more you'll be GONE

As a JD staffer, I am not surprised by the freeze. We have never received more than a 3% increase, which to my way of thinking is not a raise but a cost of living increase. We count on the bonus to make ends meet at the end of the year. Also, our medical insurance premiums and deductibles are very high and take a large chunk out of our weekly pay check. They get higher every year.

The disparity between lawyers and staff salaries is enormous, and getting more so every year. I think it is very sad when some of the staff, like the folks in the mail room, some of whom make less than $20 an hour, will have to suffer. I'm more worried about them than I am about someone with a house in the Hamptons or up in the country. These people, who are hard working and dedicated to doing a good job, are supporting families and need every penny. It's not about high end stuff for them, it's about the necessities that they need.

". . . . we must be prudent in managing costs and expenses to ensure we maintain a solid foundation . ..."
Really? It would have been nice if they thought of that before hosting the expensive Christmas Party last year, or the cocktail party last month at the Russian Tea Room. It didn't take much to see where the economy was heading last year.

As far as staff reviews go, there is no two way street. It would be very healthy for the firm if they listened to us, but that's not the reality at Jones Day.

#110. Thank you. I wish more attorneys like yourself felt the same way and spoke up. We really try to do everything we can to help you. We would appreciate the support from the attorneys under the circumstances.

Right now most of the secretaries are taking care of 3 or more attorneys and/or law clerks, and covering for other secretaries when they are out because we don't have enough floaters and they can't hire temps. So when they said in the memo that we have to work with our attorneys to be more efficient, I think they are out of touch with reality just a bit. If they could get the lawyers to listen to us it would help.

Jones Day is less about management and more about the people that you work with closely every day. If you are working with great people, it makes you want to stay, if not . . . God help you.

We are more than willing to do our part. I am proud of the support staff that I work with every day. Do I think management appreciates the effort the staff makes to keep things moving smoothly? Would you?

133 - JD lawyer . . . I mean JD staffer - since you read so well, did you read the footnote on that same wall telling you that the layoffs are right around the corner? How delusional can you be to think that a salary freeze is the solution. That's just the beginning!

George Bush has a corner office in Cleveland.

The tight-lipped salary thing dates back to the day more than ten years ago these pompous tools froze salaries for existing associates but substantially increased starting salaries for the new grads and summers to keep up with what they (hilariously) considered their peer group. The fact they were paying new grads more than their second and third years was widely reported and made them the laughingstock of the then-less-organized legal grapevine.

129--lol--the fact you analogize your firm to comic book superheroes is so craptacularly...Jones Day!

(I hope I'm not one of those annoying double posters, but I see how that could happen.)

I'm a JD staffer, too, and I've resisted commenting for the last two days, but decided to add my opinion fwiw to anyone. Where do I begin.

So many of you are making a big deal about the secrecy of salaries. What's the big shock and surprise about not discussing salaries? What company - big or small - doesn't strongly discourage employees discussing their salaries with each other. Oh yeah, union shops probably post everyone's salary, but I don't want to work at a union shop.

At least one JD staffer commented on the disparity between lawyer pay and staff pay. Duh! Lawyers make more than staff because they went to law school, etc. I have no problem with that. For the time being at least we still live in a capitalist society where people who work really hard usually make more money. I do work hard, but I didn't go to law school or medical school so I have no illusions of ever making the kind of salaries top notch JD lawyers make. I'm content with my JD staffer salary - sure, less OT, no pay increase, no year end payment hits my budget pretty hard, but I'm still thrilled to have a place to go so I can still pay the bills. Heaven help those out there now looking for work right now.

And please, quit complaining JD staffers. This must not be such a bad place to work, I can't tell you how many people left JD only to return when they found out the grass really WASN'T greener on the other side of the fence.

And yes, we really are like family here. When someone has a tragedy in their lives, people come out of the woodwork to help with money, things, support, help, etc. And I'm not just talking about the staff, our partners and lawyers of all levels are very, very generous when people have a need.

So JD folks, quit complaining and be thankful for what you have. If you hate it so much, go out there and find somewhere better! Buh-bye!

Non-JD folks, quit bashing us when you don't even know what you're talking about.

There, that makes me feel a little better.

Technical point:
Although very disappointing, I can understand the salary freeze in this economic climate. However, the "bonus" elimination really amounts to a salary reduction. The "bonus" is really a CYA for the firm to cover all the times staffers stay over fifteen minutes to a half an hour and neither firm nor client is charged. Yeah, its a good place for staff as law firms go, expecially if you are not working for an ogre, but to work for free? I think not. If attys. don't want clients charged for OT, they may want to curb any procrastination. Quittin' time is about to take on a whole new feel.
Oh, and, a Christmas Party with an open bar may not be a good idea this year.

136 your comment makes no sense. If a salary freeze is NOT the solution, than what is? Do you even work for JD?

135 & 140, I agree with you wholeheartedly!

139.. ever heard of tongue-in-cheek?

I really enjoyed working at JD until I got laid off for "performance", which was always said to be fantastic until they said it wasn't.

However, I wouldn't complain about this move, frankly I'm surprised it took this long. There are small pockets of work but for the most part, associates have been slow for a long time.

144: that happened to me, too. Fantastic on-track reviews every year for eight years then one crappy review from one unsolicited guy who was famous at the firm for being an abusive asshole, and it was "it's not going to work out" - bye-bye! While I was on parental leave, yet. Several other people seem to have left at the same time. Looking back, I think it was the leading edge of stealth layoffs. But, anyway, they did give me six months to find something else, and that was good pay for job-hunting. I'm much happier where I am now.