Notes from the Breadline: Comes A Time (Part II)
Ed. note: Welcome to the latest installment of “Notes from the Breadline,” a column by a laid-off lawyer in New York. Prior columns are collected here. You can reach Roxana St. Thomas by email (at roxanastthomas@gmail.com), follow her on Twitter, or find her on Facebook.
This column is a continuation of last week’s column, which you can read here.
When Olivia tells me that she may have a “possible” document review on which I could “potentially” be staffed, I don’t really believe her. In fact, I have the same feeling I get when I read the spam in my Gmail inbox. I’ve won £1,500,000,000? An undisclosed sum from the Loteria Espana, or perhaps De Lotto Netherlands? It sounds nice for a moment, until you realize that it’s bullshit. The promises of the British Lottery, the “Microword Corporation,” and Mr. Van Curtis of the Delta Lloyd Bank are illusory, gigabytes of sounds and fury, signifying nothing. Likewise recruiters, who often make it sound as though the fabulous job they are describing is yours for the taking — a done deal! Then you never hear from them again.
So I am surprised when Olivia calls me back a few days later to tell me that the “possible” document review has actually materialized. “How would you,” she breathes, pausing dramatically, “like to be staffed on the project?” Something about her delivery makes me wonder if she once dreamed of being a game show host, and has stood before her bathroom mirror telling imaginary guests that they will be going on a four night, five day trip to … Aruba!! I feel as though I should jump up and down and scream, clapping my hands. Instead, I tell her that I would be delighted to work on the project.
“That’s great!” she effuses. She gives me some minimal information about the project (a large pharmaceutical case) and the pay ($30 an hour for the first forty, and around $35 thereafter), then tells me a little bit about the firm, using the most generic terms possible. The people who work there, she says, are “just really nice,” and “a pleasure to work with.” She thinks I’ll “have a lot of fun.” In addition, she adds, the firm sometimes hires temps for full time positions. She says this as though she is telling me that, if I am really good, I might get ice cream at the end of the day.
“Really?” I say. “How often does that happen?”
“Oh, from time to time,” she answers. “It has happened.”
I do not jump up and down and scream when we get off the phone, but I have to admit that I am excited. Though the pay is modest at best, $1200 a week is more than I’m making now. And if the gig lasts for two or three weeks (Olivia’s estimate), I’ll have at least $2400 (or more, if there’s overtime) to throw at my bills.
But I also have some concerns. Read about them, after the jump.
As an associate, when I supervised the occasional document review, I made an effort to explain the substantive aspects of the case to temp attorneys, and to solicit feedback as the review proceeded. It’s hard to be engaged by an assignment when you don’t have a feel for the facts or procedural background of a case (which partners seem often to view as superfluous details), so I tried to make temps feel involved, hoping to give them a sense of ownership so that their work would feel more meaningful. But I knew plenty of attorneys who treated temp attorneys quite differently, and viewed the supervision of document reviews as an opportunity to wield the power they were denied by all other aspects of the firm hierarchy. They viewed temps or contract attorneys as damaged goods, picked from the dent bin of the legal talent pool. Even now, with all kinds of attorneys doing this kind of work, I doubt that this prejudice has vanished completely.
Still, I hope for the best. On my first day of work, I wake up early, get dressed, and make a thermos full of coffee. I feel like I am going to my first day of elementary school, and wonder if I will find a note in my lunchbox later, along with a peanut butter sandwich. “I’m off to work, you lazy bums,” I announce to the cats. “Don’t barf everywhere!”
I arrive at the office at 9:00, even though I am not due there until 9:30. There are already people downstairs on their smoke breaks, staring vacantly into the street, arms folded against an unseasonable chill. At Big Law Firms, I am reminded, a break can seem long overdue by then. I take the elevator up to the firm’s reception area, which is graced by a massive, artistic floral arrangement, and tell the receptionist the name of the attorney I am supposed to ask for. She asks me if I’d like some coffee or tea while I’m waiting. “Sure!” I say brightly.
“Just give me a minute,” she says warmly. “I’ll let her know you’re here.” She dials the phone and murmurs a few words to someone on the other end. “I don’t know,” I hear her say. “I’ll check.” She covers the mouthpiece for a moment and asks me whether I’m “one of the temp attorneys.” Yes, I tell her, although the label feels odd. She hangs up and dials another extension. “Roxana St. Thomas is here for you,” she says flatly, and hangs up. “Elisa will be out to get you in a minute,” she tells me, the warmth gone. I realize that Olivia must have given me the name of the originating partner by mistake, and that Elisa is probably the associate.
The receptionist turns her back, as though she is afraid she will catch something unpalatable just from looking at me. An older man, clearly a partner, steps off the elevator, and she greets him cheerfully. I stare at the massive floral arrangement, trying to guess what the firm spends every year on massive floral arrangements. More to the point, I wonder, do personnel decisions at Big Law firms ever come down to Attorney/Staff Member vs. Floral Arrangement? Are there budget meetings in which one partner says something like, “You know, I really like Ed, but we can’t keep him AND the floral arrangements. Something’s got to give.” At the end of the day, poor, unsuspecting Ed probably remains unaware that all of his higher education, hard work, and sweat equity are no match for an artfully arranged clump of spider orchids, anthuriums, and celosia.
After five minutes, I am reasonably certain that the receptionist’s beverage offer has been rescinded. After twenty minutes, Elisa appears in the reception area. Although there is no one chasing her, she looks harried, as though she was pursued from her office by a pack of foxhounds. She also sounds cranky. “I’m Elisa,” she says, barely looking up from her BlackBerry. “I don’t know why they told you to ask for the partner,” she scoffs derisively. “I’m handling the document review.” She turns around and starts to walk away. Though she has neglected to use one of the common expressions indicating as much, such as “Come with me” or “Right this way,” I deduce that I am supposed to follow her.
I can tell that Elisa is younger than I am, but it takes me a moment to realize just how much younger she is. She has a hardness that makes her seem older, and her clothes — while clearly expensive — look as though they were picked out by her overly conservative grandmother. She also appears oddly mismatched, like her features were gathered from a collection of spare parts. Her lips are thin and fixed in a sour expression, which feels oddly familiar to me, although I can’t quite place it. When we stop to wait for an elevator, another female associate, who is young and pretty, wanders up and stands silently nearby. Elisa looks her over with a disgusted glance, and it hits me: Elisa resembles Dick Cheney.
We get off the elevator and I follow her into the warren-like hallway. “Actually,” she continues seamlessly, as though we had been talking the entire time, “I’m basically handling this entire case. I’m, like, unbelievably busy. And we’ve had one problem after another with these temp attorneys, so it’s been, like, such a nightmare.” She sighs irritably. “I had to fire one last week because he was, like, totally incompetent.”
“How so?” I ask, hoping to learn how not to cross Elisa. But she looks at me strangely, and I realize that we are not having a conversation; Elisa is just thinking out loud. She shifts gears. “Have you done document reviews before? You’ve done document reviews before, right?” she says. It is more of a command than a question. “Because they told me that you had experience doing document reviews, and I really don’t have time to hold anyone’s hand.”
Something about her severity makes me want to compensate, to offset her total lack of geniality. “So, Elisa,” I ask her in the singsong tone I might use with a shy puppy, “it sounds like you’re running the show here. Can you tell me about the case?” I expect her to seize the opportunity to show off her expertise, delight in the details she has mastered, display the familiarity that most overly-involved associates flaunt with pride. Instead, she grunts impatiently. “I’ll give you a binder that explains the coding,” she says. “You don’t really need to know more than that.”
Finally, we arrive at a closed door. Elisa opens it, revealing a windowless room filled with computer screens. Most of them are manned by attorneys, some of whom spin around, blinking dazedly at the interruption. Others appear catatonic, registering no response. I almost expect someone to shout “Close the door!” like the old patrons on Cheers did when reality threatened to penetrate their cocoon. No one does. They are docile and glassy-eyed, and turn back to their screens before I finish saying “hello.”
“Okay,” Elisa says brusquely, grabbing a binder from a stack in the corner. “This is the review protocol. You’re going to be tagging for these 32 categories. Read through it, and if you have any questions after that, you can e-mail me.” She scrawls her e-mail address on a piece of paper. “You know how to use Kroll Ontrack, right?” I do, but I’m not sure I would admit it if I didn’t. “It’s been a while,” I say. “Do you want to just do a quick run-through?”
Elisa exhales wearily, making a sharp hissing sound that causes me to cringe involuntarily. Clearly, she does not want to do a quick run-through. Nonetheless, she plops down at an open computer and clicks into the database, whizzing through its features so quickly that I realize I will have to look through it on my own later, when I have time to reacquaint myself with the “review tool,” as she calls it. While Elisa zips through the program, I study the room and its occupants.
Clearly, I have joined an effort that is already in progress. Whether the attorneys who work here ever actually leave the room is less clear. Most of the computer stations look lived-in: pillows, blankets, and sweaters adorn the chairs, and personal effects are lined up on the tiny slivers of desk space between reviewers. Something about the scene reminds me of a casino, and the way gamblers stake out slot machines by arranging coin cups, drinks, and ashtrays around the perimeter of their territory. Most people have containers of lotion next to their keyboards, and everyone has a large tankard of hand sanitizer nearby. Some have bottles of prescription drugs lined up in their space, along with snacks, tissues, and an eclectic display of knickknacks. Green-haired troll dolls grin blankly from some desks, their round, naked bellies protruding unapologetically. You are taking ‘business casual’ too far, I think silently. Other workstations are decorated with inspirational quotes, action figures, and tattered cartoons clipped from newspapers. There is something poignant about these tiny, dilapidated museums, and the urge, of which they are evidence, to remain unique in a slightly dehumanizing situation.
There is also something gross about the room — specifically, the collection of food that is scattered around. A plate of leftovers, which appears to have been scavenged from a conference room some time yesterday, rests on one table. A decapitated muffin sits next to a hardening piece of bagel and some congealed cream cheese. On a bookshelf, a cup of desiccated melon sits next to a pile of dusty M&Ms. While I am standing behind Elisa, one of the reviewers takes a baked potato out of a Baggie and bites into it, his eyes fixed on the screen.
Elisa finishes her lightning review and stands up abruptly. “Okay,” she says. “All set?” It doesn’t sounds like a question, but I nod anyway. She turns to leave, but spins around just before she reaches the door. “Don’t redact anything yet,” she says sternly. “If you find something that needs to be redacted, put it aside and let me know. I don’t want you to redact anything until I see how you’re doing with the review.”
“Got it,” I say. “Thanks.” She closes the door, and I sense a collective sigh of relief. No one says anything. After a few minutes, an older man, who is wearing carpal tunnel braces on both wrists, looks at the door, as if to make sure that Elisa is gone.
“Bitch,” he mutters, and turns back to his computer.
___________________________________________________________________________
Roxana St. Thomas is a laid-off lawyer living in New York. You can reach her by email (at roxanastthomas@gmail.com), follow her on Twitter, or find her on Facebook.




Comments
Comments hidden for your protection. Show them anyway!
I am #1. I am the great cornholio!
I don't have time to get all the way through, so can someone tell me if this is the entry where Obama descends on a silvery cloud and makes everything ok again?
#1 do you need TP and if so for what?
This is the first installment of this series that is actually readable and interesting.
It also does a good job of demonstrating how ridiculous the current atmosphere of legal hiring is, with an accomplished attorney being supervised by a surly young associate :(
Get over yourself Roxanna. I doubt you were as nice as you claim you were to the temps. You probably displayed your superiority over having a job and being the one in "charge" just as much. You just hate now that you are on the receiving end.
Suck it up. Do the job. Collect the paycheck. I know sucking it up is a new concept to your entitled ass but try it anyway.
the aruba stuff was very funny and well done
Welcome home Roxanna, welcome home...
I'm actually glad she was detailed in describing the start of the doc review position. Yes it pays decent, but several attorneys still don't understand what goes on behind the door.
Yeah, I got two/ three of these [very generic mass] emails from temp recruiters about contract work for $32/ hr .... Not interested! In my opinion, after taxes and taking into account that unemployment will be lost (at least temporarily), this degrading gig is just not worth it. I'd rather do pro bono work
And, the tone of these temp recruiters sounds like they're doing me a favor of thinking of me; actually, reminds me of the emails sent by someone in the old firm offering free tickets to entertainment events
Again, just not interested! I'd rather get back via unemployment some of what I've paid in taxes over the last 4 yrs while slaving for the firm
Roxana is hot and cold. This post was good.
TL; DR
Roxana is hot and cold. This post was good.
TTToo long, didn't read.
Keep it up Roxana - great post.
I love that "I'm basically handling this entire case." Really? Is that why they put you in charge of the temps?
That sounds so awful. Is this what actually goes on at firms? If so, maybe my rescinded offer -- ugh, I mean January deferral -- is a blessing in disguise.
I literally want to smack that bitchy associate. I really hope she reads this and realizes what a horrible person she is.
Wow, sounds like a recipe to punch someone out and get arrested... and disbarred
Excellent points and well-written. A nice Steinbeckian morsel.
Who do you think has it worse - the S&C associates who got a $500 check or the cast of characters doing doc review with Roxy??
there there scared 3L...there there
*pats scared 3L on the head while secretly hoping i'll be able to take his job*
-nervous T-10 1L
soon to be nervous 1L sa
Not to make excuses for the associate, but she probably isn't acting that way in a vacuum. I'd bet the farm she's being treated pretty poorly by the folks higher up the food chain. The vicious cycle of firms, unfortunately.
Yes, Scared 3L, look hard. This is your future.
Well hopefully you mixed up enough details to not be found out. I mean cmon. 30 year old woman who starts midproject, knoll ontrack, 32 categories, tries to make small talk? Law students have outted themselves with less.
Love this post! So true! I am an former associate and now work as a "staff attorney" at a large firm. I worked on several of these temp doc reviews. It is amazing how badly people can be treated. Morale among the temp attorneys is generally not too high, either. I believe a lot of it comes from the fact that attorneys have generally done pretty well for themselves in life, and to be at the bottom of the attorney food chain anywhere, and to be treated as such, can feel quite demoralizing. The funniest thing I find about the temp reviews is that there is NO incentive to perform well. If anything, it a strange reverse incentive. The more hours you work, the more money you earn. The slower you perform the work, the longer the review takes, therefore the more money you earn. A definite morale buster for high-achievers and, in the end, partially explains a lot of the stereotypes about temp attorneys. The system is generally set up so that you benefit by not performing especially well. Hang in there Roxanna! Many of us have been there (or are there) and still live happy, fulfilling lives.
nice
As a laid-off corporate attorney, I've been intrigued by these offers of $30-35/hr to do this stuff but have no experience with what it is like...all I know is that it pays more than unemployment.
Thanks for the details; I'll continue ignoring these job postings.
Do you fancy yourself Cindarella, Roxana? Elisa appears to be playing the role of the ugly step-sisters. Who will be your prince? Hot young associate on partnership track?
Sorry, but document reviews suck whether you're a reviewing associate or staff attorney, or the quality-control person running the ship. Elisa is just as miserable as you, and although younger, she looks like Dick Cheney. Buck up sister, the Dow is up.
I simply refuse to read something that long on a blog. I'd rather just read and post comments.
Best one yet. I'm wondering how this temp gig turns out.
If we stop posing comments, maybe she will get fired again.
God does anyone believe her BS?
"Most people have containers of lotion next to their keyboards, and everyone has a large tankard of hand sanitizer nearby." Really, where are you, Mexico City?
"Green-haired troll dolls grin blankly from some desks, their round, naked bellies protruding unapologetically." I believe this as much as I believe the Easter Bunny is humping Santa Claus.
"....a pile of dusty M&Ms." I don't think anyone has ever described M&Ms as dusty, even in the Sahara desert.
"one of the reviewers takes a baked potato out of a Baggie and bites into it, his eyes fixed on the screen. " What idiot brings a baked potato to work, did he microwave it beforehand or did he just let it sit for hours?
This is a crap story by someone trying to be a writer, that fails miserably.
7 wins. Nice attitude Roxana - it's not her fault she didn't fuck up and get "laid-off." Don't hate people who are better than you.
Roxana nailed the whole manner in which people are treated at firms. I've never had a job where I could watch a person go from warm, smiling person to sour faced asshole. I think the whole snapping from kind to unkind is what makes it so jarring.
Also, doc review projects suck. I'm surprised so many people had personal things in the room. Aren't they known to end of a moment's notice?
Why oh why must the word "barf" appear in every single one of these columns... ?
Schadenfreude? Unfortunately, I have indescribable glee at a fmr big law associate having to suffer through this. Wait until you find out that these folks graduated from Ivy League schools, and were just unlucky. It'll f up your perception of life and its 'meritocracy.'
Wow, this is the best one of these in ages. It got good starting at the paragraph where she shows up to work.
Painfully true post. Keep it coming.
terrifying. really terrifying.
In response to the recent commenter who says he crapped his pants in the office when he heard the latest rumor about layoffs -- here is what to do:
STEP 1: Proceed immediately to your firm's Structured Finance Department. Because of massive layoffs there, the place is like a ghost town and you'll find plenty of empty offices in which to hide out all day.
STEP 2: When you leave at the end of the day, carry a copy-paper box filled with personal items including a large plant. This will make you appear to be just laid off. And cough a lot. People will keep their distance for fear of catching (1) your laid off condition, which is widely believed to be contagious, or (2) the resurgent swine flu virus.
These steps should get you home with minimal embarrassment. Good luch and let us know how it worked out.
Make it stop!!
29's comment is hilarious
In addition, she adds, the firm sometimes hires temps for full time positions. She says this as though she is telling me that, if I am really good, I might get ice cream at the end of the day.
"Really?" I say. "How often does that happen?"
"Oh, from time to time," she answers. "It has happened."
You know what else happens from time to time...an asteroid hits the earth...
What a lying sack of shit this recruiter is
I thought this was one of the better posts. Good job.
Gentlemen at the legal preparatory academy with which I was once affiliated, finding themselves in situations in which they lacked any contractual relationship pursuant to which they performed legal services in exchange for certain regular payments and other and sundry forms of consideration, were compelled to accept short-term offers to study and analyze digital images of certain documents and other tangible things pertaining to the subject matters of various matters of interest pertaining to certain disputes pending in certain courts of law and that were being prepared for exchange between the parties to the same pursuant to Civil Rule 34, or its state law equivalents. The gentlemen found themselves ensconced in untidy lodgings amid a pervasive gloom, which evoked in the gentlemen a sense of being chained below decks in the galleys, or other unseemly forms of servitude, for which the prior experience of the gentlemen in "biglaw", or indeed in their legal preparatory academy, had failed to prepare them. These things were viewed with awe and wonder by those who have not experienced them for themselves, but it was not, generally speaking, the type of momentous or otherwise propitious sort of event that is retained in the minds of the public at large.
Nearly all lawyers are boring drones. Sad to say, that ranges from Supreme Court Justices down to document review contract attorneys. They don't think expansively, are very circumscribed, are crabbed in their social interactions and are really tedious tossers, to be honest.
Nearly all lawyers are boring drones. Sad to say, that ranges from Supreme Court Justices down to document review contract attorneys. They don't think expansively, are very circumscribed, are crabbed in their social interactions and are really tedious tossers, to be honest.
To #25: I guess you can continue to turn up your nose at opportunities to, I dunno - pay bills? - as long as you plan to suffer the delusion that once this recession is over you're going to get hired by another big firm and be right back on partnership track. Guess what: you're not. These would be the days to start formulating that what-you-want-to-do-with-your-life-now plan. And there's no shame in paying the bills while you do that and wait out the recession.
Document review pays a helluva lot more than unemployment, btw, and extends the life of your benefits.
As for the working conditions of doc review, Roxanna is right. Purel abounds, because it gives people an absurd sense of protection in the abysmally filthy conditions these projects operate within. As it turns out, most lawyers are filthy creatures who were raised by wolves and do not know how to clean up after themselves.
Good story, but 30's right. The whole 'takes a baked potato out of a plastic bag and takes a bite' thing is just ridiculous. It must have been "apple" and then Lat played a joke on her and changed it "baked potato."
hmm sounds like J&J - barasso?
46 - I lived well within my means during the 4 1/2 years I was in biglaw (and I certainly did not come form money and have significant student loans). With the bonuses during the good years, my gross over that time was about $900k. As a result, I don't have to whore myself out and put "contract attorney" on my resume for an extra $800/week (and only some weeks at that) over unemployment. It's partially pride, but mostly it's knowing what that does to a resume (I don't agree with it, but it's sadly fact in some corners of our prestige-obsessed profession). Sure, the $800/week would be nice, and I have been tempted, but it doesn't come free.
Sitting on my ass probably looks about as good, so to fill my time, I've been tending to hobbies and family (things that were severely neglected over most of the past 4 years), and doing some pro bono work and non-legal volunteer work. I don't want to make a career of either, but it hasn't been too bad.
How about you worry about your "what-you-want-to-do-with-your-life-now plan" and I'll worry about mine, k? I'm doing just fine, and I actually do have hope to be back on partner track--someone is going to need mid-level corporate people who can run deals when this is over with.
-25
30 - You've never seen a legal temp workspace before. Let's just say Milton Waddams' workspace is a good comparison.
Go back to studying for your finals.
For those of you who don't know, there's already a blog covering this dismal sector, though the coverage is a little over the top: http://temporaryattorney.blogspot.com/
Roxana, you're getting paid more than I do as a first year government attorney. Get over your damn self.
Comment removed by moderator.
I think I would do document review if it lasted 1-2 months or less. There are some that last up to 6 months and they require you to suspend your job search. That's b.s. I can't commit 6 months doing menial b.s. work and not send out my resume somewhere. Yes, the market sucks and it is possible that even if I sent out my resume, I wouldn't get anything for at least 6 months. But still, suspending my job search for $25-30 hour with no over time pay is ridiculous.
I'll see how long my pride can pay the bills though.
www.laidoffdiary.wordpress.com
I can just imagine the partner going through Roxana's time entries "Discussed substantive and procedural aspects of matter with temporary attorneys" and asking WTF she was doing. Probably made the layoff decision easier.
The best thing that can happen next in this series would be if the entire Fortune 500 was somehow involved in this litigation and Roxana was conflicted out of ever representing any large company again without going through a time consuming and cumbersome waiver process and then she could write a novel about dealing with the GC's office at some TTT company. That would be exciting.
#52 is a pig. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to hear that kind of filth.
55 - I love you too.
- 52
Comment removed by moderator.
55 and 57: What's the matter with you? Did you not realize that this is a site for grown-ups?
Comment removed by moderator.
It's stories like these that make me never want to leave my cozy, GS salary government lawyer job. I don't know how you biglaw attorneys do it, I really don't. I'm sure the money is nice, but sacrificing both the thrills of being a real lawyer (you know, the ones that get to go to court) and civility, just never seems worth it, from the outside looking in.
roxanna is fantastic :)
If Roxana were a half-elf arcane archer she could use the "Hail of Arrows" feat to strike down her tormentor.
Just a thought.
Ignore the immature commentors Roxana, you are a wonderful writer! I just know you'll have all kinds of witty dialogue with your new document review friends, Melania, Nigel, Chase, and Arabella.
They'll be dour, down on their luck attorneys who resent you at first for your big law past. You'll have some misunderstandings, you'll realize you had an unintentional sense of superiority from your previous work, but as you get to know them over cosmos after work, you'll all realize you have something in common: you all love Prada handbags.
YOU GO GIRL!
this sounds way better than the fed judicial clerkship, in BK, i told you about last week.
DK
This is the closest thing I have read to a modern day "House of Mirth." Scary not just because of how far she's fallen, but because you get the sense of how much worse things are likely to get.
This is like the scene where Lily threw herself at the man whom she previously scorned, only to be flatly rejected. I would suggest that Roxana get consumption in the next episode. I'm not sure that happened in "The House of Mirth," but there is something undeniably romantic about daintily coughing blood into a handkerchief.
In conclusion, great job. This is the best episode since the first one because it's so vivid and something actually happened in it.
I got jumped by 6 Skaddens and a Nixon Peabody last night coming out of the Yale club...stole my Piguet and took the oxxford right off of my body. it really is a jungle out here
LOL @ 62.
57 - Nice! I'm thinking the same thing
63 = comment of the year
just brilliant
I think both ATL and the commentors do Roxana a huge disservice by pretending her writing is anywhere near the quality of a professional writer.
As far as all people that speak English go, her writing is a solid 7. It flows decently, she comes up with the occasional witty quip. She's like the valedictorian of a high school class.
But let's be real. If she authored a book, would any of us shell out $20 to read work this uncreative (including those egging her on here)?
Of course not. She's a mediocre writer authoring works germain to some of us because we're lawyers. It's downright sad that she thinks she's anything close to a pro. Roxanna--why don't you try to get a paying job as a writer not on a blog. Or try to get something published. At least then you'll know you're nothing special. Just another layed off lawyer with above average writing skills. Unimpressive
This article just tells us what we already know:
Biglaw firms fail at their obligations to have informed persons review their documents for production because they do it on the cheap; and
In doing so, biglaw firms provide substandard representation to their clients.
All Roxana had to do was say that the firm billed it's clients $300/hour for an incompetent, untrained kid that knows nothing about how to practice law and we'd have a primer.
There are only two possibilities here:
1. This is fiction.
2. She is risking her job and the jobs of other people by posting this. It shouldn't be hard to identify where she is, or the guy with the carpal tunnel wrists.
I believe that this is fiction, ala Al Gore in the debates. It's plausible, therefore I can write about it as if it were true.
The way this has been going, she's been writing these at least a couple months after the fact, so presumably her job would be over by now. I will say I'm still a little skeptical over whether these are real or not (though you people doubting her description of temp attorneys really ought to read into that more), but in terms of writing, this is better than before.
71 is dead on right. Comments that Roxanna is making this up are coming from people who clearly don't know what they're talking about. Those doc reviews are nothing more than profit centers for BigLaw, which are ripping their clients off with sub-par document review.
And 70, before you critique other people's writing skills, how about you learn how to spell? Germain? Layed off?
this sux
Models and bottles
If anyone commenting has actually practiced law in a large firm and managed one of these projects, you'd know that "carpal tunnel guy" is fairly common b/c he's a life-long contract atty who has steadily clicked a mouse in the same position for 8 years. The hand sanitizer comes in handy when you're stuck in a windowless, dingy, inner conference room with people who cough etc. for 9 hours a day. The food? B/c if you leave the building, you can't bill your time and you want to get the hell out of same as soon as you can.
This isn't fiction....and, yea, i know it's a huge shocker that the old guy thought the young associate was a huge bitch! They're as common in biglaw as carpal tunnel guy is in contract world.
74- it's more of a ripoff to allow associates who have never reviewed a doc in their life, fresh out of law school to review docs.
49/25: That's great for you, but it's simply not feasible for many people, particularly those with families to support. I couldn't justify not making any money whatsoever if I was given the opportunity to do so, but I've also had low-level jobs in my life that I've had to take for money (unlike most BIGLAW attorneys I worked with, who wouldn't deign to work for a wage where "meaningful [unpaid] work experience" beckoned). The money for a 40-hour week isn't horrible and 40 hours a week isn't that big a deal. If it gets in the way of looking for a job, just be sketchy about your whereabouts and let them fire you. You're not a wage slave, for God's sake.
I also don't understand the "career suicide" argument. Just don't put it on your resume if it bothers you that much and tell interviewers you tended to family obligations during your post-layoff months. Aside from BIGLAW jerks, I can't imagine other employers thinking temping was some huge deal in this economy.
Best of luck, Roxanna.
9- Temp work looks bad on a resume, but being unemployed looks much worse- people may think you are lazy, unmotivated, and/or don't want to do legal work or be a lawyer. If you want to get back in the game, the fact that you loafed and collected unemployment when you could have worked could keep you out this profession.
BORING. The worst crime would be for you, Roxana, to consider yourself a writer.
If she keeps this job for several weeks, this column will be more interesting. I liked this episode. And if she's not a real person (and instead is actually Elie) keep up this storyline for awhile. There's a lot you can do with temp attorney and attorney interactions in the context of a doc review. It wouldn't even bother me if it's not true. Very well could be, and it's definitely happening somewhere.
This post is 100% realistic. If have ever managed a project and dealt with contractors like Elisa, shame on you. I admit its easy to treat them like cashiers or other incidental agents in your commercial life, but they are just like you. Treating people working for you, to whom you owe nothing professionally, may be the only real opportunity to show professoinal character as a junior associate. It's a good time to check if you are becoming one of the ogres you work for that you run down behind closed office doors. In a big market like NY or DC, many contractors are, in fact, just like Roxana---good lawyers from second tier firms or busted practices in top firms caught in the storm. And on any given day now, any of us could be in that packed review room with the broken A/C with some 26 year old jackass who hasnt run anything bigger than a lemonade stand giving your orders.
While I applaud Roxana for finally getting to the nuts and bolts of the job hunt, is the lifestyle of the contract attorney really a surprise to anyone? Nearly every large firm has at least one room filled with these guys year round. Some of them are burned out lifers clicking topic flags on documents all day and then going home to their reheated chicken noodle soup dinners and multiple cats. The fun ones are the guys in their 50s who are doing it as a slow pitch softball second career and have kept some perspective. They do a day's worth of "work" in 3 hours and then just joke around with the radio on. After work it's drinks at one of the secret bars they know, to discuss all the firm gossip (regular attorneys talk without filter in front of temps sort of like how the English ignore the help, so the temps learn everything). As a regular attorney you have to keep up appearances by not getting too friendly with the temps, but at the same time it is amazing some of the insights and career perspective you can get from a couple of the smart semi-retirees who are basically just moonlighting to pay for new decks on their summer homes. Underestimate those guys at your peril.
You had me right up until the point you mentioned Dick Cheney - then I suddenly realized that Roxanna is not real - she is a figment of imagination created by the editors of this TTT blog with their stupid political axe to grind.
You elitist snobs should really try working for a living then you could actually write about the real world using first hand knowledge...
"As an associate, when I supervised the occasional document review, I made an effort to explain the substantive aspects of the case to temp attorneys, and to solicit feedback as the review proceeded. It's hard to be engaged by an assignment when you don't have a feel for the facts or procedural background of a case (which partners seem often to view as superfluous details), so I tried to make temps feel involved, hoping to give them a sense of ownership so that their work would feel more meaningful. But I knew plenty of attorneys who treated temp attorneys quite differently, and viewed the supervision of document reviews as an opportunity to wield the power they were denied by all other aspects of the firm hierarchy. They viewed temps or contract attorneys as damaged goods, picked from the dent bin of the legal talent pool. "
This paragraph is spot-on. Nice job, Roxy.
79:
You cannot leave off the document review job from your resume. Presumably the document review job was for a client and if you one day get a job offer you will have to do a conflict clearance with the new firm. Don't you think they would want to know who you worked for while on that document review project? Don't you think they would want to know if you were on a case possibly involving your prospective employer?
As an attorney, you cannot leave a document review job off of your resume. A resume, especially in law, lets an employer know who you have worked for and what experience you have. You are obligated to tell them that you worked on the document review job.
Look at it this way. You can put it on your resume and explain you did the project to feed your family. Or, you can leave it off and "try" to explain to an employer who offers you a job that you "forgot" about that document review project when you are going through conflicts check. Some potential employers will not hire you if you have worked on a document review project, nearly all employers will not hire you if lie on your resume. You also risk your bar license in doing so.
As terrible as the life of a document review job appears, you are still a lawyer and you are working for a client and you still have to go through conflicts check and you still have this client and opponents to worry about for the next few years at least.
This sounds like how they treat temps at Linklaters. I believe I know the female attorney w/ the sneer.
There are benefits to working as a sole practitioner with no staff -- I've been a partner in two large corporate firms as well and the latter do not compare in terms of lifestyle, hours or frankly, enjoying life. I don't have to: 1) put up with resentful old (or young) bats, too many of whom will actively try to screw your career; 2) tolerate snarly types who have been waiting all their lives at a law firm to "get into a position of power' over someone else, especially those more educated than they are; 3) work with ill people with bad eating habits in a stuffy enclosed room; 4) and I've never had to review, stamp or redact piles of documents. For those of you who have been laid off, working as a sole practitioner can be quite a nice change -- you've already got the smarts and the skills, the human capital which is the major investment you'll need and you can easily undercut the ridiculous hourly rates charged by your former colleagues as you are not paying for grand floral arrangements, exorbitant salaries or needlessly plush office space.
84:
You are spot on. Some of these doc review "lifers" have been solid attorneys in big and mid law and then decided to leave. (ok some didn't make partner and were booted out in one of the past mass exoduses of lawyers)
When you state, "it is amazing some of the insights and career perspective you can get from a couple of the smart semi-retirees who are basically just moonlighting to pay for new decks on their summer homes. Underestimate those guys at your peril.", you are entirely correct.
I have run across a few of these doc review lifers and they REALLY know their way around law firm realities and they have a pretty good grasp of the law. Nearly all of the "lifers" have much more insight and understanding of law than the junior associates who are "supervising" them.
The fact that they have paid off their student loans, probably paid off their house (or at least have made a dent) and have an older car that is paid off, or don't have a car at all to save on expenses, makes them all the more interesting because they can give their opinion without fear of saying something that will piss off someone. They usually say nothing that would get them in trouble, but if you can get them in a corner they will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.
Roxy, that was your first column that didn't suck. Well done, however I still think you should pursue a career as a craigslist hooker.
Is Roxanne's name a penname? I hope she is using fake names. Even if, it seems like it would be really easy for Elisa to pick up on who this really is and retaliate against Roxanne and also the man with the brace on his arm who called her a bitch.
Don't complain about doing temp work. It could be (and may get) worse, you may be waiting tables in a year.
Excellent post, and spot on. Keep it up.
I once lateraled to a firm just as one of the other practice groups was starting a big doc review project. I got lumped in with the contract attorneys for the "timesheet software" training, and I've never seen a bigger collection of crushed and broken spirits. The HR minion conducting the training positively dripped with contempt, and at the end of the training the contractors were given 15 minutes to eat lunch and report to the reviewing room, which was in another building. Money and resume damage aside, I'd work in a gas station before I'd take one of those soul-killing jobs.
#30 - you have no idea what you are talking about. She nails how long term doc review spaces look. As a Staff Attorney at a Big Firm who runs these all the time, I know.
Idiot.
89 is a fake post. Even a solo practioner will have to review, 'stamp,' and redact documents if they have any meaningful clients and worthwhile cases. The only difference is the volume. The solo practioner with no staff or other attorneys is even more likely to have to review documents than a senior associate at a large firm.
87: I've never listed a client name on my resume for a permanent legal job, so why is doing a document review at a temp job any different? I wouldn't list the temp gig if it was a months-long situation. Years...well, that's a different story. If you're at the conflict check stage, you likely have an offer and can merely list the client you were reviewing documents for at that stage. If your new employer flips out because you didn't list a temp gig on your resume, so be it - the job wasn't going to be yours in any event.
You may also be going into a job that doesn't require a conflicts check (I have one now), so no harm, no foul. All of this being said, I'm much more of a risk-taker than most lawyers I know, so take it with a grain of salt.
87: I've never listed a client name on my resume for a permanent legal job, so why is doing a document review at a temp job any different? I wouldn't list the temp gig if it was a months-long situation. Years...well, that's a different story. If you're at the conflict check stage, you likely have an offer and can merely list the client you were reviewing documents for at that stage. If your new employer flips out because you didn't list a temp gig on your resume, so be it - the job wasn't going to be yours in any event.
You may also be going into a job that doesn't require a conflicts check (I have one now), so no harm, no foul. All of this being said, I'm much more of a risk-taker than most lawyers I know, so take it with a grain of salt.
Wow. I think at that point I would have said goodbye, quit the "law" forever, and done something that makes me happy, no matter how little it paid.
30 is right - the description smacks of inauthenticity. I've seen plenty of workstations, but nary a green-haired troll doll since about 1999. Maybe on the desk of someone who has been working in the same space for 10 years..... but that wouldn't make any sense in a temp area.
And the "dusty M+Ms" - classic. I'm sure someone who needs to munch on a baked potato at 9 am is letting open candy sit around collecting dust - and how long would it have to be sitting there to get dusty? Also since 1999?
To # 95 - Re: stamping, sorting and reading documents - certainly true if you're talking about litigators, which most of us AREN"T.
tl;dr
tl;dr
wow. this is a great post. as an attorney who's supervised several large doc reviews, i can't believe they just threw you in there like that, without substantive training and training using Kroll. Every time we hire new contract attorneys (even if in the middle of a doc review) the first thing we do is spend time with them training them. On top of that, there's ALWAYS an attorney staffed full time on the matter sitting in the room with the reviewers to answer any questions they may have throughout the review!
This was a great post, in fact, the best I've read in this series. I can really picture the room, the varying frustrated/ resigned/ bored/ desparate contract attorneys, petrified of, and, at the same time, disgusted by the young uppity associate with their pay checks in her hands.
I remember, back in my Big Law days, supervising contract attorneys and really hating it. It was depressing for me, it was depressing for them, and that was during the boom times (early-to-mid 2000s). Then you might actually have been able to make the "dented bin" argument, but it would have still been wrong to treat people so shoddily (although I admit I never explained the substance of any of the cases). But these days, as a BigLaw associate, does anyone really think he or she is safe from this potential fate? You'd think that might provide some incentive to treat contract attorneys with a little more courtesy, knowing that many of these people WERE you just a short time ago. Very good, but depressing, piece. Keep it up!
Did doc review at Kirkland in Chicago one summer in b/w jobs. They gave us a half-day substantive training on the basics of anti-trust and the facts of the deal. All in all, the attorneys, esp. the partners, were quite pleasant and actually pretty approachable. The supervising associates didn't give off much, if any, sneer or condascension. It was actually a really good time and worked with some fun people. However, I did know I was moving on to a full time gig in my niche. There were definitely some lost souls in those rooms.
As someone who used to work as a temp, but who now works as an associate, I found this article so interesting. The baked potato bit is, to me at least, completely believable. And so are the dolls and purel. Imagine if all you're given is half a folding table, a chair, and an old computer. You have to find some way to personalize your space or else you start to feel like assembly line robots.
I think it should be compulsory training for new Biglaw associates to spend a month or two in the doc review room, just to get an idea that you're not necessarily "better" than the temp attorneys you're supervising. After all, your first few years at Skadden or Latham is mostly just supervisory doc review anyway. (Which, incidentally, is why so many mid-level junior associates are being let go now: you made a ton of money, but don't actually have any real legal skills yet.)
That said, though, there are quite a few temps who really do represent the "dented bin" of legal talent. I can't tell you how many really nice people I met who got waitlisted at St. Johns or Brooklyn Law (can you imagine the ignominy?), and so they went to Florida Coastal, CUNY, or Pace (often part-time and/or at night) who really just don't have much to offer to the legal profession. Often they have little "private practices" on the side. I'd hear them talking on their cell phones at lunch about their piddly real estate closing or DUI defense, and just feel bad for their clients for not being able to find/afford competent counsel.
But people really have been sold on the idea that getting an education that you can't afford is the key to upward mobility. But, in the end, there are just a lot of people who would be much better suited to getting a blue-collar job driving MTA trains or building cars than they are to being lawyers.
Nice post Roxana.
I have managed contract attorneys before. To the extent I get in a grumpy mood it is usually because I normally have to get to work earlier (8 AM) than usual. I also do not care for the Class B or C windowless office space and having to use a key to use the bathroom instead of being in my own office (with exterior windows) and going to the bathroom whenever I want.
The one thing that usually cheers me up is that about 15-30% of the temp attorneys are hot (as opposed to the less than 5% of associates at my firm.)
If it seems like the associate is staring at you a lot it might just be because you are hot rather than him/her having a grude against you. Although I speak as a male. Maybe ugly female associates are mean to hot temp attorneys? But it's too easy to get into generalizations.
I think this is where the story ends or should end for Roxanna, so I'd just like to make a request that the powers that be stop posting any more of her stories from the bread line, as they have gotten quite stale.
Also kudos to whoever decided to lay her off- it almost makes up for the decision to hire her- self-righteous, lazy and entitled brats don't make for good lawyers, no matter how good their first year contracts grades are.
Wow, Biglaw has really warped you guys. I'm a solo and I did coding when I was starting out to supplement my practice. Guess what - if you stick with it, all those DUIs and real estate deals eventually add up to $100,000 per year working 6.5 hours a day. Don't underestimate your temps.
All of you fat, small-dicked Roxana haters should shut the fuck up before I come find you in yo shitty law office and stab yo ass with a rusty knife.
108: And if a cute female temp is staring at you, she's probably mentally drafting her petition for an order of protection.
Didn't Roxana just get released from an Iranian prison? How's she back to blogging so quickly?
Troll dolls? Is she doing document review in 1993?
Congratulations! You win the world's tiniest violin playing you a sympathetic song of pity.
Funniest sentence:
"After five minutes, I am reasonably certain that the receptionist's beverage offer has been rescinded."
Or, you could suck it up and get a job in small law and actually learn some skills or god forbid build a career.
Can somebody please confirm whether one must (as a result of ethical obligations or practical reality) put his temp doc review job on resume? why can't I just say that I worked for that client at my old firm. I did not put every job or even every legal job on my resume (it's not a bar application). For example, I did not mention my split summer firm because I did not have space and did not think it is useful. When they do conflict checks, how exactly is that done? Why would they take away the offer? If they ask me at the interview if I worked during the time off, I can tell them but do not see any reason to disclose. Explain to me why am I wrong because I am seriously considering getting a temp job.
Also, what happens to your unemployment?
118 - According to my law school's career services office (and these ladies are real lawyers - the signature lines of their emails have "Esq." after their names), a resume is not a disclosure document and thus you are not required to list any temp work. Happy clicking!
118 - According to my law school's career services office (and these ladies are real lawyers - the signature lines of their emails have "Esq." after their names), a resume is not a disclosure document and thus you are not required to list any temp work. Happy clicking!
118, 119, 120:
I really do think that you should put all jobs you had since you passed the bar and were sworn in. Using the argument that a resume is not a disclosure document is pretty weak. Let's assume you go for an interview, get an offer and then find out that the reason you were hired was to work on the same mega case that you were just working on for another client. Don't you think that would not look good.
Additionally, let's assume you were recently laid off as a second year and most of your experience has been supervising document review projects. If you later worked as a document review attorney you actually have more experience now. I have seen more that a few first and second years doing document review work that is indistinguishable from the work done by the contract attorneys.
Leave relevant work experience you have as a lawyer off of your resume at your own peril. By the way 119, 120, I have Esq. after my name also and I have practiced law for years and I am not a career services flunky wanna be lawyer.
Listen up, all. Putting "esq." after your name is extraordinarily pretentious. It is a title of respect that others may convey on you, should they deem you worthy of it. It has nothing to do with being an attorney, although it is primarily used when referring to attorneys. Calling yourself "esquire" is like a judge introducing himself by saying, "I am the honorable Judge X."
106 writes: "That said, though, there are quite a few temps who really do represent the "dented bin" of legal talent. I can't tell you how many really nice people I met who got waitlisted at St. Johns or Brooklyn Law (can you imagine the ignominy?), and so they went to Florida Coastal, CUNY, or Pace (often part-time and/or at night) who really just don't have much to offer to the legal profession. Often they have little "private practices" on the side. I'd hear them talking on their cell phones at lunch about their piddly real estate closing or DUI defense, and just feel bad for their clients for not being able to find/afford competent counsel."
Oh puhhhlleease. Since when is a BLS/Dozo graduate "that much"better than a CUNY/Pace graduate? The funny thing is that I WAS waitlisted at Brooklyn, was taken off and enrolled - and before I landed my current mid sized litigation job, I had my own private practice for a bit. I did quite well and never resorted to the need for document review.
The attitudes and assumptions made by some of you posters are really astounding. Face it, unless you graduated from a top 10 (no, not top 50 or top 100) law school where BigLaw is virtually guaranteed if you just follow the program, everyone is pretty much in the same boat vis-a-vis job opportunities. If you are a CUNY, Pace or NESL grad who "hustles" - you are as much the same boat as a law grad from a higher ranked school - to claim their clients were "unable to afford" or "find" competent counsel is just flawed, arrogant and misleading at best.
106: get over yourself. Since when does a Florida Coastal/PACE/CUNY grad be someone who can't offer anything to the legal profession? Such an assumption is misguided and laced with arrogance and presumptousness. I say this as a BLS grad who WAS waitlisted, taken off, and worked alongside many other graduates of various schools in different firms who were all similar in terms of work product and performance. Its not like the dividing line between Tier 2 schools and Tier 3/4 schools is all that clear.
My advice is don't disclose for the practical reaosn that an unemployed lawyer could do as many as 20 temp gigs in alone to two year period. That will turn the resume into a treatise rather than a succinct description of your qualifications. Most employers understand by looking at employment dates if there are gaps then that means unemployment and possibly temp work. Six years ago I was unemployed for a year and half. I swallowed my pride and had to do those jobs to pay the rent during the last downturn. When I got my current perm job as an in-house counsel, the background check folks in HR did ask about about that gap between associate positions in my past. I told them I did temp work but did not want to list a bunch of gigs for 10 pages. Besides, if you interview at a firm, you probably should have a sense if it was involved in the matter you worked on as a temp and act accordingly.
My advice is don't disclose for the practical reaosn that an unemployed lawyer could do as many as 20 temp gigs in alone to two year period. That will turn the resume into a treatise rather than a succinct description of your qualifications. Most employers understand by looking at employment dates if there are gaps then that means unemployment and possibly temp work. Six years ago I was unemployed for a year and half. I swallowed my pride and had to do those jobs to pay the rent during the last downturn. When I got my current perm job as an in-house counsel, the background check folks in HR did ask about about that gap between associate positions in my past. I told them I did temp work but did not want to list a bunch of gigs for 10 pages. Besides, if you interview at a firm, you probably should have a sense if it was involved in the matter you worked on as a temp and act accordingly.
A little wisdom, such as it is, from someone who has been there for real in the not so long ago past - not someone who seems to be writing a work of fiction, however entertaining it might be to read.
The story this week has it right - the first contract work an associate gets after a layoff can be a very rude awakening after being an associate at the top of the hill. At least Roxana got an attorney to guide her into the office, however rude and offhand the treatment was of her by that attorney. Usually the contract lawyers don't even get assembled in the front reception area where a partner or, God forbid, an important client might see these wretched untouchables. Often times the whole thing goes down in an empty office building down the block from the shiny law firm offices with some folding tables, older discarded PCs and monitors from the mid 90s, Internet cables, and crumbling drywall with nail holes from the former tenant that resided there. Most times it is just a paralegal supervising the whole thing who enjoys the rare chance to have someone they can crap on with impunity and many of them will do exactly that. Practice for their later careers as lawyers no doubt. The point is, once a person enters that world it is time to swallow a sh*tload of pride and get used to low expectations about work life until a real job comes along. Forget whatever illusion is fed by the staffing firm that there is a chance that it can turn into something permanent - that is a load of BS designed to sucker the few fools out there who think working harder to code documents quickly and efficiently will lead to a job (which ironically will only serve to shorten the assignment and the chance for overtime). However, do enough temp jobs and you begin to learn how to play it - finding ones with unlimited overtime and minimal supervision or even one with a printer in the room you can print resumes off of when nobody is looking at night and after anyone who gives a damn leaves while you pile up overtime. The key is not getting used to that life and becoming one of the perpetually damned drones who are there year after year - doomed to spend the rest of their lives in a war room coding documents for second requests wondering, if they are still capable of such thoughts after years of being crapped upon, why that expensive degree only qualifies them to do work a monkey could do. Though this too will one day pass as a phenomenon - in 10 years even those crappy temp jobs will be outsourced to India. It's already happening.
Roxana, sadly, has the document review picture down exactly. I have over 15 years of big law practice experience and have seen conditions degenerate in that and so many other areas of the law.
Those closed rooms are awful, but so are the document reviews offsite or in the field-- try a warehouse in Chelsea or worse, and old building in New Jersey.
Hope we find some way to use all of you (and me)better some day.
Roxana, sadly, has the document review picture down exactly. I have over 15 years of big law practice experience and have seen conditions degenerate in that and so many other areas of the law.
Those closed rooms are awful, but so are the document reviews offsite or in the field-- try a warehouse in Chelsea or worse, and old building in New Jersey.
Hope we find some way to use all of you (and me)better some day.
Roxana, sadly, has the document review picture down exactly. I have over 15 years of big law practice experience and have seen conditions degenerate in that and so many other areas of the law.
Those closed rooms are awful, but so are the document reviews offsite or in the field-- try a warehouse in Chelsea or worse, and old building in New Jersey.
Hope we find some way to use all of you (and me)better some day.
good installment. the ones where you just write about your life are better than the ones where you try to address all the commenters.