PENN STATE DICKINSON!! +12 and rising--

Where did Chicago-Kenttt go?

I would like to defer my University of Penn State Dickinson comment until January 2011.

I don't even have to ask the question; I assume that none of these schools are accredited by the American Bar Association.

It is sad, but true, that if you go to a school like those listed above, you had better be on a huge scholarship, near the top of the class, or independently wealthy. Because otherwise life is going to be just like that person described it...

Ahem. The Pennsylvania State University, Dickinson School of Law. Get it right. It's the DSLs!

I'd take Cincinnatti over Loyola LA any day.

great pizza around brooklyn law school-thats all i have to say about that

FSU will be the best law school in Florida within three years.

That Craigslist poster is an idiot. If you want to work in Biglaw with a BLS degree, you'll need to do a lot better than just "over a 3.0 GPA" - you need to be in the top 5-10% of your class, be on a journal and/or moot court, not be a douchebag (although that last requirement is debatable). Don't blame BLS for your woes - you should have worked harder or done better.

And if you didn't want to work in Biglaw...well, after three years you have *no* permanent job? I think that says more about you than BLS.

6 -- It is sad, but true, that you can go to a highly ranked law school, get a biglaw job, and then be let go almost immediately, and still wind up having to live at home, deep in debt. Law school blows.

I went to Pitt Law. It has dropped from 47 - 71 in 4 years. It is trying so hard to gain notoriety as a liberal school. But, surprisingly, if you want a liberal school, there are some other choice schools that top your list: Yale, UC Berkeley, etc. Pitt is dropping and will continue to drop until it focuses on education and not on becoming a meet and greet for gender and race legal experts.

I went to Pitt Law. It has dropped from 47 - 71 in 4 years. It is trying so hard to gain notoriety as a liberal school. But, surprisingly, if you want a liberal school, there are some other choice schools that top your list: Yale, UC Berkeley, etc. Pitt is dropping and will continue to drop until it focuses on education and not on becoming a meet and greet for gender and race legal experts.

This sucks. My law school should not appear on ATL - ever. Leave it in "real America" where it belongs, far away from all of you status-obsessed worker bees.

/s/
Country lawyer

UCONN!!!!!

American sucks.

That Craigslist poster is an idiot. If you want to work in Biglaw with a BLS degree, you'll need to do a lot better than just "over a 3.0 GPA" - you need to be in the top 5-10% of your class, be on a journal and/or moot court, not be a douchebag (although that last requirement is debatable). Don't blame BLS for your woes - you should have worked harder or done better.

Considering his writing skills are up there with Elie's, I'm not surprised he struggled to find employment. He is, among other things, unaware that there should be an apostrophe in "my parents house," presumably after the s. Conceivably, it could be the house of only one of his parents, but people usually don't talk that way; if it was, for example, the house of his mother, he would just say "my mother's house."

How about USD jumping up a bunch of spots?.. Though the employment prospects aren't great in San Diego (due to the fact that everyone wants to live there), there is really no better locale to attend law school...

What the hell happened to UF?

I transferred out the first chance I got, but Lewis & Clark was a great place to spend 1L year.

i think you have to go with location over cost. for instance, if you want to work in cincinnati, go to uc, not uk. but if you want to work in lexington, go to uk, not uc. of course, to be at a top firm in either city, you need to finish at the top of your class; middle- and bottom-dwellers won't get great paying jobs.

the schools have a great regional reputation, but you do still have to finish in the top 15% to get the $100k+ jobs.

and lexington and cincinnati federal clerkship markets are getting more and more competitive, too. the judges in each city have good relationships with the schools and are more apt to hire top-of-class finishers at each school in their respective cities.

13: Boalt Hall (aka UC Berkeley Law School) is a lot of things, but liberal is NOT one of them. Ever heard of John Yoo? aka Master of the Unitary Executive *and* Torture?

Don't let the undergraduate rep fool you. Boalt Hall is as conservative a law school as you can possibly get in California. With the exception of Pepperdine and its crazy anti-Prop. 8 professor...........

Uconn was #36 I think when I applied....sigh....

I assume (most of) the problem is that other schools that are now in that 30-40 range have done more to improve their ranking than it is that Uconn has done anything that would make its ranking go down. But at the end of the day, Uconn is just a little state law school - it has (or had) the potential to be more, but they aren't really trying all that hard.

And yes, Uconn was my 2nd choice b/c my LSATs were low, but the in-state tuition was really nice too, and it wasn't very hard to find a decent job in CT after graduation.

And our basketball teams rule.

Georgia State is the best kept secret in the ATL. It's something like 8K per year in-state tuition.

Get's grads to all the same "Biglaw" firms in Atlanta, and its grads get to laugh at Emory kids who paid 45K per year to end up at the exact same firm.

SUCKAS!!!!!

I fear for the hundreds of people at each one of these schools who are not at the top of their class...

OH, and Cardozo kids must be thrilled that they are no longer on this list!

Villanova doesn't give you better access to the Philadelphia market than Temple. Temple is easily held above Villanova by Philly firms.

The only reason nova leap frogged Temple is the Temple's evening program was counted this year - and maybe basketball was taken into account.

You also have a better shot at a contract attorney gig in NYC out of Villanova.

Definitely attend Cincinnati to learn the nuances of chili parlor law.

Georgia State is the best kept secret in the ATL. It's something like 8K per year in-state tuition.

Get's grads to all the same "Biglaw" firms in Atlanta, and its grads get to laugh at Emory kids who paid 45K per year to end up at the exact same firm.

SUCKAS!!!!!

For Houston you need to finish in ~ top 25% to have a shot at Big Law, otherwise your only hope of a job is really to work as a 2L/3L and hope they bring you on which is hit or miss. There are exceptions of course but that's the gist of it. Career services will NOT be of any help, but that's probably true at any of these schools. Something to think about if you are considering UH.

Definitely attend Cincinnati to learn the nuances of chili parlor law.

whoah whoah, BLS is a top 25 school? where have I been?

would only attend these schools with a rather large scholarship.

It's getting hotter. LATHAM, LOOK AT THESE SCHOOLS. THEY WILL REPLACE YOUR COLUMBIA AND NYU GRADS. ENJOY!!!

25 - "Get's grads to all the same "Biglaw" firms in Atlanta, and its grads get to laugh at Emory kids who paid 45K per year to end up at the exact same firm. "

From your quote above, Georgia State also "get's" grads who embarass themselves with their grammar. At least Emory and UGA grads can read and write.

24: What do you think accounts for UConn's drop? I, too, was surprised to see it so low. Maybe they're being honest about their employment stats or something.

UConn hasn't done anything to improve anything. It now panders to minority students with 155s on the LSAT and consequently the quality of student has declined. I'm not saying all the minorities are stupid; some were quite bright, but UConn Law is a sucker for a sob story, for sure!

23: I stand corrected. I did let the undergraduate rep fool me. My excuse is that I only researched potential schools in the northeast when I applied (and Boalt would have tossed my application at first glance anyway). And I did not know that Yoo was the norm at Boalt-I thought he was an exception.

Uconn was #36 I think when I applied....sigh....

I assume (most of) the problem is that other schools that are now in that 30-40 range have done more to improve their ranking than it is that Uconn has done anything that would make its ranking go down. But at the end of the day, Uconn is just a little state law school - it has (or had) the potential to be more, but they aren't really trying all that hard.

And yes, Uconn was my 2nd choice b/c my LSATs were low, but the in-state tuition was really nice too, and it wasn't very hard to find a decent job in CT after graduation.

And our basketball teams rule.

University of Houston is a good school. I've interacted with a number of its alums in the plaintiffs and defense bars. Good value too. If you have Texas residency, it less that $20k/year.

27 - got rejected from Nova, eh?

32 - Read much?

That Craigslist post is pathetic. I don't care where you went to law school, if you can't find a job after three years you need to start examining yourself rather than blamming other people or your school.

32 is a retarded monkey

I pounded a PITT undergrad in her ass once.

Re: Craigslist Poster...

Can't get a job after 3 years...what a fucking idiot.

In this economy, a student better graduate in the top 25% at any law school, top 25 or otherwise, to land a biglaw job.

Pepperdine will be a solid top 50 law school in the next couple of years.

Just remember...My education going to one of the 50- 75 schools is only costing $110K.

Guess what? Unless you are at a top 25 school, only the top 20% get big law jobs anyway. So for the rest of you, we are all in the same boat even if you were top third at a 25-50 schools.

The difference is I will owe half of what you owe while working the same job in a major city.

UConn alum here in big law. As one who goes on campus to interview, the caliber of the top 10-15% of the class is strong. But beyond that, there's little depth. It's hard to see how some of the current students are going to land a job that will justify the cost of their education. The work ethic may be there, but the horsepower isn't what I would expect of a student at a top law school. Ranking of 45-50 is probably about right. Better students than Brooklyn, equal to Cardozo, but I can't say as good as any of the schools ranked above them.

BTW, I got into top-20 schools but went to UConn for the instate tuition. I finished top10% with law review, but for those who didn't, the same risk did not pay off.

Just remember...My education going to one of the 50- 75 schools is only costing $110K.

Guess what? Unless you are at a top 25 school, only the top 20% get big law jobs anyway. So for the rest of you, we are all in the same boat even if you were top third at a 25-50 schools.

The difference is I will owe half of what you owe while working the same job in a major city.

Given the continued downward trend in the Dow, reflecting the contraction of the economy and the resulting lessening of demand for legal services, going to any of these schools is a fool's errand.

Quick disclaimer on Baylor...

If want to have the most miserable possible experience, in the most miserable possible city, with the most miserable possible kids, and then have no chance at landing a good job after they put you through more hell than any other school in the country, go to Baylor.

It is an absolute joke.

Hate to break it, but you don't even need a top 75 school to make it into BigLaw, much less T-10. Buffalo is currently ranked 85 (a 15 point jump from last year and 8 point drop from 2 years ago) and we send our grads to Skadden, Ropes, Jones Day, and many other NYC mega-firms every year. All for $13K a year in-state tuition... it's lovely to finance your entire law school career, plus living expenses, through loans and still come out at only $100K in debt :-)

I attended SMU, was not top 10%, and still got a job at Locke Lord.

Which would you rather?

1) Have Evan Chesler perform a rectal exam on you with fire place tools

or

2) Work in Dallas?

Can't believe U. Penn falls all the way to 65. I thought they were an Ivy league school???? Too bad.

Tier 2 is no-man's land. I have a friend who barely failed to get into one of these schools, then went to a Tier 4 school and now has a BigLaw job because he's "on top of his class." Meanwhile, the schools at this level offered me huge scholarships, so I took one, and I'm sitting in the top half without even a glimmer of employment hope. The truth, for students considering law school, is that there's T20 and everybody else. If you pick everybody else, Tier 2 or Tier 4, you have to be on top of your class... and let me tell you, that's a lot easier to do in Tier 4.

Can someone explain to me why Penn is listed in these rankings twice? Looks like USNews made a mistake.

FSU alum here (2005). Got a sweet job with a lobbying firm right out of school. I bank $150k a year with no billable hour requirement. We work a 40 hour week "at most" three months out of the year. In addition, there is an abundant supply of lovely FSU ladies willing to do anything to date a lobbyist.

See www.cowgirlnation.com

FSU at its best. Suck it.

I chose FSU over UF two years ago--when UF could still brag about its rankings. UF is seriously falling in quality, and FSU is about to make a real splash. In the next couple of years, we will have an entire court complex as classrooms and courtrooms for mock trial and moot court competitions--all courtesy of the First District Court of Appeal moving out of its building.

FSU is the best law school in Florida, and in ten years I think we'll have one up on everyone in the southeast--including Emory & the usual suspects in Georgia.

Sometimes I worry about graduating with a quarter million in debt from a T6.

Then I think, "what if I could graduate with 100k or 150k less debt from a T2?"

And then I'm glad I am where I am.

Good luck, y'all.

I chose FSU over UF two years ago--when UF could still brag about its rankings. UF is seriously falling in quality, and FSU is about to make a real splash. In the next couple of years, we will have an entire court complex as classrooms and courtrooms for mock trial and moot court competitions--all courtesy of the First District Court of Appeal moving out of its building.

FSU is the best law school in Florida, and in ten years I think we'll have one up on everyone in the southeast--including Emory & the usual suspects in Georgia.

I went to one of these schools over a T10 school because the school offered a full ride and was in a big market. I'm a 2L now and with a top 5% GPA and law review have managed to land a summer position with a V10 firm. Looking back, it definitely would have been safer for Biglaw ambitions to go to the best school I could. However, those who are committed to pursuing public interest or government work should definitely take financial aid into account; debt forgiveness programs do exist, but they can be competitive and rarely mean full forgiveness of debt.

CANES ON THE RISE we are the harvard of the greater metro-dade area.

38: Yoo is the exception. for every John Yoo, Boalt has two or three Haney-Lopez-like professor who make the udergrad look downright fascist. but still it is a good school

I chose Tulane over Emory.

the SUNY Buffalo CS troll is back!?!?!

When is US News going to correct the listings regarding Brooklyn, given that they lied about their entering class' GPA and LSAT? US News said it was going to have more to say about this last week? Not a word from them or Brooklyn, what gives? When they fall below #75 after the correction, ATL will need to discuss them on the 75-100 thread as well.

Law school is a losing proposition unless you:

1) Attend one of the top 3 schools;
2) Obtain a Full Scholarship/Fellowship; or
3) Want to have a lifetime debt owed to Sallie Mae.

Don't say no one ever warned you.

54 - Just because 10 of Buffalo's graduates get Big Law jobs does not make it a good school.

This comments thread is so painful. I feel sorry for all of you.

54 - Just because 10 of Buffalo's graduates get Big Law jobs does not make it a good school.

UPEnn State - Philadelphia, the Dickinson School of Law on the rise baby! JoePa's gonna take us all the way to #1

FSU is the best law school in Florida, period.

Is it true that everything is bigger in Texas, including law school chicks?

61, I almost believed you were just stupid until I read your claim that half-ass U will pass Emory. Up to that point, it was pretty nice flame. Hope you enjoy the second-best LS in your own state.

Pitt's problem is threefold. The first two are its Dean and the university Chancellor. Both are pushing for it to become this big health law school. Dean Crossly has a health law specialization, and was brought in to facillitate this. Chancellor Nordenberg, who was Dean before his promotion, sees how his university is T15 for med schools, and wants to tie that into all other facets of the university, creating UPMC Barco at the expense of all else.

The third problem is Duquesne's law school. For some reason, that tier 4 school has alumni that are in the top legal jobs throughout western PA, and they always rank Duquesne higher than Pitt when the USNews surveys go out. I assume its because the best Pitt grads flee the city (if not the state), while the best Duquesne grads stay put.

FSU's "march" up the rankings is due primarily to two factors:
1. Their efforts to improve the quality of the education and efforts to recruit students with strong LSAT and undergrad GPAs (new professors, addition of new buildings, scholarships, ect), and
2. Their gaming of the U.S News ranking system. But, to be fair about the latter point, which schools, especially ones not in the top 10, do NOT attempt to manipulate the rankings in some way.

As for UF, I am at a loss for why they have steadily fallen in the rankings over the last few years.

Comparing FSU and UF, they both have regional appeal (confined to Florida, Georgia, and Alabama), but definately carry no weight outside that region. On the job front, UF has historically attracted more firms (especially large firms) for OCI. However, even this advantage has eroded significantly the last few years as many, if not most, of those same firms now also recruit OCI at FSU. And of course, like most schools in this range of the ranking system, you will need to be top 25% from either school to land either a pretigious clerkship or BigLaw job.

In light of the rankings this year, it will be interesting to see what effects, if any, it will have on students confronted with the decision of which school to attend between the two.

These are the real tiers:

Tier 1 - Yale (you can get a job anywhere)
Tier 2 - Harvard (you can probably get a job anywhere)
Tier 3 - Schools 3 through 15 (you can probably get a job anywhere if you really try)
Tier 4 - Schools 15 through 50 (it is within the range of possibilities for you to get a job anywhere)
Tier 5 - Schools 50 through 100 (it is within the range of possibilities for you to get a job)
Tier 6 - Everyone else (you better be Top 5%, or you won't have a job, even then, most places won't take you)

27 is right, Temple has the better name in Philly. Less money, better teachers. I got into Villanova and Temple and am at Temple now--very happy with the decision.

My cat's breath smells like cat food

- Villanova 3L

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FSU's "march" up the rankings is due primarily to two factors:
1. Their efforts to improve the quality of the education and efforts to recruit students with strong LSAT and undergrad GPAs (new professors, addition of new buildings, scholarships, ect), and
2. Their gaming of the U.S News ranking system. But, to be fair about the latter point, which schools, especially ones not in the top 10, do NOT attempt to manipulate the rankings in some way.

As for UF, I am at a loss for why they have steadily fallen in the rankings over the last few years.

Comparing FSU and UF, they both have regional appeal (confined to Florida, Georgia, and Alabama), but definately carry no weight outside that region. On the job front, UF has historically attracted more firms (especially large firms) for OCI. However, even this advantage has eroded significantly the last few years as many, if not most, of those same firms now also recruit OCI at FSU. And of course, like most schools in this range of the ranking system, you will need to be top 25% from either school to land either a pretigious clerkship or BigLaw job.

In light of the rankings this year, it will be interesting to see what effects, if any, it will have on students confronted with the decision of which school to attend between the two.

SMU will doom you to work in Fort Worth and have a humongous wife.

i went to UConn, graduated top 40% of my class, had a scholarship, paid less than $7k a year for law school, and I now work for Weil. Suckers.......

72--Don't feel sorry for anyone on this thread; they don't want your worthless pity. Many great lawyers have graduated from these schools, and many will in the future. The only difference between you and them is that they realize their success depends on their diligence and competence as lawyers, while many top-tier graduates feel they've already succeeded merely by attending a highly ranked school. Hate to break it to you, but your success or failure in actual practice has little to do with where you went to school.

UConn's drop is suprising given the caliber of the majority of its students. Contrary to the earlier poster, UConn's minorities come in with a minimum of 160 LSAT score and if you were able to take a gander of the class rankings, minoirities are invariably at the top. There are of course those who falter and are below the top tier of the class. Those students are just lazy.
UConn admits few minorities so I'm not sure why the poster thought UConn is "pandering" to minorities. When you remove foreign LLM students from the mix, UConn admits approximately 20-25 minorities out of a class of 150 days students and 70 evening students, that's less than 12%.

Our rankings are falling because the State places limitations of Professor hirings so student/faculty ratio is high, donations and therefore, scholarships, are down significantly, and we report accurate employment numbers instead of gaming the system.

UConn has excellent professors, many of whom are leaders in their respective fields. For example Richard Pomp on state and local taxation, Lenard Orland on criminal procedures, Jeremy Paul on property and in particular eminent domain, among many others. The clinical programs are excellent. In any event our students go to the top firms in CT, NYC and Boston.

On the other hand, career service took a nose dive when Maria Rivera left. Students will have to seek their own opportunities going forward.

eh, u pick on bls for a high tuition by quoting some ranter on craigslist, but in ur last post of us news rankings, gloat about dozo becoming the next "fordham".. dozo has identical tuitution and employment prospects to bls (the latter may be even worse) yet dozo seems to escape the negative nyc law school buzz

87 - Especially if you want to do patents with a science background. You could have a 2.0 in college and law school (yes even at hofstra or widener) as long as that 2.0 was some sort of science major.

Layoffs today at Thompson Knight... sad

"FSU is the best law school in Florida"

Isn't this like saying Ed is the smartest person with Down Syndrome.

Another UConn alum at Boston biglaw. My loan debt is something like $35k, so if I got fired or had to move to Kansas or something it wouldn't be a tragedy. Firms that hire only from top 10 schools get what they deserve - B-student slackers who coasted in straight from the Kaplan prep course. The top 10% at UConn worked their asses off to be there - I'd take a top achiever at a lower-ranked school than a middling Harvard student anyday.

As mentioned, GSU places at K&S and A&B in Atlanta for $9300 a year in-state. It also has the best PT program in the southeast. In fact, including the PT program in the rankings coincided with a 12 place jump in the rankings.

Pepperdine 2005 U.S. News Ranking: #99
Pepperdine 2010 U.S. News Ranking: #55

80 -- you're a moron. you think all those people from yls and hls who have firm jobs at v30 and below did that by choice??? they COULD have gotten a job "anywhere" (wachtell) but chose nixon peabody instead? sure.

78: I am from Pitt too. I want to add that the only jobs Duquesne grads deserve are in the fast food industry.

89 -- one word: Jews.

Dean Paul at UCONN is worthless. He's the reason the rankings have gone down, not the students. An utter embarrassment.

Location is probably the important thing here. If you want to work in a small market in Texas, Baylor will get you there. If you want to work anywhere else, it won't help you.

I don't think any of these schools can justify charging tuition as high as the top private schools. Of course, I don't think the top private schools can justify charging that tuition either.... But at least with a degree from the top schools, you can pretty much guarantee a high paying job..... except in this market, of course.

69: Whoa - I'm a BLS alum and haven't heard about this little scandal. Details, please.

a BIG +1, poster #99.

Who cares what the ranking differentials are between these schools? Once you're in 50-100 range, the rank difference among the schools is irrelevant to attendees, hiring partners, and everyone except the dean's mother. You go to one of the schools and someone hires you for a host of other reasons - not the ranking.

87 -- How quaint!

70 -- How accurate.

If you plan on practicing in Georgia, go to Georgia State. If you want the option of practicing outside of Georgia after law school, go to Emory. But never, ever, go to U[sic]GA.

University of Baltimore for life!

These are all open enrollment schools? Correct?
-Tarbosh

Location is probably the important thing here. If you want to work in a small market in Texas, Baylor will get you there. If you want to work anywhere else, it won't help you.

I don't think any of these schools can justify charging tuition as high as the top private schools. Of course, I don't think the top private schools can justify charging that tuition either.... But at least with a degree from the top schools, you can pretty much guarantee a high paying job..... except in this market, of course.

to 86 - there are only 4 of you, I'm sure you bragged about your scholarship to someone important when kissing ass to get your job . . . hope they don't mind you posting instead of trying to bill the 3000 hour minimum

Some people have no grip on reality. San Diego is a regional school which means BigLaw jobs ARE available but generally only in San Diego, Orange County, and LA. No one comes here to get a job in NY. If they do, they're stupid.

Check any BigLaw webite in the aforementioned markets and you'll see USD alumns on the attorney page. And even though you've gotta be top 10% to get BigLaw jobs, if you don't get the BigLaw job, it's much better to be stuck in the bottom 90% at a smaller firm in San Diego where we have beautiful beaches, great weather, and gorgeous women, than being stuck in small firms in Philly, Brooklyn, Texas, Ohio, Georgia or Kentucky, - SO SUCK IT!

UNLV? Does Jerry Tarkanian teach a class there...that would be awesome! What's the deal with this school? Keeps rising in rankings yet no one seems to know anything about it...like, whatsoever?

Pitt's problem is that they recruit people from all the small, sh__ty towns across Pennsylvania (most of which I have never heard of). Most of those people just want to return to their little towns and work for a small general practice firm. If Pitt made an effort to recruit people with decent experiences, it's graduates would get better jobs at better firms and its ranking would increase. Just pick up the Pitt alumni news sometime - it's a bunch of stories about John Smith making partner at a 7 lawyer med mal firm.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to UF Law. A big part of why they have fallen off in recent years is because they eliminated their entering spring class and consolidated them all to fall. The Spring class on the whole had lower LSAT averages, but were not reported to U.S. News as part of the "Fall entering class profile." It also made teh school appear to have an artificially low acceptance rate (it was 13% the last year the spring class was in existence). The school was overloaded and not ready to handle the transition. I know UF is now planning on reducing the incoming class from 450 to 300, which will probably have some positive impact on the ranking, both in terms of S/F ratio and acceptance rate. Where I freely admit UF lags behind FSU is in career placement, which mostly is a result of the locations of the respective schools (small college town vs. state capital). UF Law has been doing a disservice to their graduates for years in this area. The only reason we are treading water is because of a larger alumni base that is spread throughout the state (though mostly concentrated in the Tampa/Orlando corridor), as opposed to FSU which is mostly limited to northern florida (though expanding). For years, the calibre of UF students have been generally higher than at FSU, but this seems to be changing as well. I'm just not sure what the future holds for UF Law. The one thing both schools have going for them is that they are insanely cheap (I paid $3500 a semester). Even with the tuition increase, both schools are generally good values.

Some people have no grip on reality. San Diego is a regional school which means BigLaw jobs ARE available but generally only in San Diego, Orange County, and LA. No one comes here to get a job in NY. If they do, they're stupid.

Check any BigLaw webite in the aforementioned markets and you'll see USD alumns on the attorney page. And even though you've gotta be top 10% to get BigLaw jobs, if you don't get the BigLaw job, it's much better to be stuck in the bottom 90% at a smaller firm in San Diego where we have beautiful beaches, great weather, and gorgeous women, than being stuck in small firms in Philly, Brooklyn, Texas, Ohio, Georgia or Kentucky, - SO SUCK IT!

Man I LOVE that DEALBREAKER ad. Keep up the good work Elie.....

70 - Interesting observation Partner Emeritus. Although I noticed that you bragged about voting down an associate for partnership who was "Order of the Coif" at HLS. HLS has never had Order of the Coif. That's kind of a bad slip for such a distinguised man, no? I mean, anybody who has ever seen HLS resumes or ever interviewed HLS students or ever considered them for partnership/counsel/lateral positions knows that.

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/05/morning_docket_050109.php?show=comments#comment-1038712

Florida has fallen in the rankings because they are accepting people with LSAT scores below 155. Unfotunately, they are not about to stop accepting these students and I will let you speculate as to why.

what's the reason for loyola dropping like a rock? is it the parTTT-TTTime program issue?

I am trying to liken going to pittsburgh to something everyone can understand. Oh yes, I'll use this Eddie Vedder quote

"There's nothing wrong with it, but it sounds like a popsicle stuck up someones ass"
(he was referring to Good Charlotte's music, but it works equally well to describe everything about Pitt.)

Loyola LA had the highest bar passage rate for one of the hardest bar exams in the country and drops in ranking? Just goes to show how screwed up and meaningless rankings are.

Would anyone like to meet in the lobby for a bit of sex?

Fordham Flaccid

No. 96,

Pepperdine 2005 U.S. News Ranking: #99
Pepperdine 2010 U.S. News Ranking: #55
Pepperdine 2015 U.S. News Ranking: #15

If you go to PITT, I can guarantee that you will never have a job, and most certainly will never pound a secretary in her ass.

Haywood Jiblomey

Loyola LA had the highest bar passage rate for one of the hardest bar exams in the country and drops in ranking? Just goes to show how political, screwed up and meaningless rankings are.

120,

Loyola is a 3 year bar prep course. People from real law schools can just prepare in two months and pass it.

These comments are getting quite silly.
Non sequiturs fly willy-nilly.
And woe unto you
If you think it's untrue

These comments are getting quite silly.
Non sequiturs fly willy-nilly.
And woe unto you
If you think it's untrue
That Penn State has a lawschool in Philly.

117,
OH I know, I Know (hand up) Pick Me Pick Me!

Answer: They're Black!

-Tarbosh

what's the reason for loyola dropping like a rock? is it the parTTT-TTTime program issue?

Houston is a good law school that will probably ascend in the rankings over the next few years. Think about it, Houston is the largest city in America without a top law school.

Houston won't get much play on this site because it's not on the east coast, but if you want to work in Texas and get a great value UH should be considered. Not to mention, Houston places students at every big law firm in Texas and if you aren't at the top of the class there will be numerous opportunities to network and work part-time to get you into a post-graduation job.

I'm from Florida and went to UF for law school. I graduated with zero debt, a job in biglaw in a major east coast market, and clerked at the federal level. I, as well as other UF grads, are highly competitive, regardless of the school's recent rankings.

The comments about scholarships are the key. I went to Miami, full ride, passed up a few Top 20s but no T-14. Would have paid any other school entirely on loans. Now I have done well (top 10%) have a clerkship after graduation, and owe about 1/8 of the money I would have going to another school with no guarantee of doing well. If you are faced with a scholarship option in this economy you are crazy not to take it, because you can come out of a T-20 school with 200K in debt and still be unemployed, or a T-2 School with very little debt and still be unemployed. Take the money and run! (note: if it comes down to paying in full, always go to highest rank school, this only applied with a full or near full scholarship). oh and GO CANES!

The fact that this Craigs List tool is bragging about passing the bar says it all. Don't they teach you at Brooklyn Law that passing the bar is a bare minimum requirement for practicing law? $200k for Brooklyn Law is like throwing money away. You'd be better off borrowing that much on your credit cards and moving to Mexico.

Houston is a good law school that will probably ascend in the rankings over the next few years. Think about it, Houston is the largest city in America without a top law school.

Houston won't get much play on this site because it's not on the east coast, but if you want to work in Texas and get a great value UH should be considered. Not to mention, Houston places students at every big law firm in Texas and if you aren't at the top of the class there will be numerous opportunities to network and work part-time to get you into a post-graduation job.

If you want to practice in louisiana, and pass the louisiana bar, go to LSU.

That's always been the traditional advice. No one teaches louisiana civil law like LSU, they teach completely to the bar and to the practice of law in louisiana.

Of course, the degree is fucking useless anywhere else. But since the LSU alum partners prefer LSU grads over Tulane grads, why would you ever leave?

Rankings are pointless. If you are really cut out to go to law school, it shouldn't matter if you practice at the top of a tower in NYC or the bottom of a basement in western Oklahoma. Real lawyers want to practice no matter the conditions, and want a legal education no matter the ranking.

Does anyone ever wonder where partner emeritus finds the time to dispense his useful information

To figure out the true ranking for Penn (since USNews obviously goofed), I think you can just average the two rankings

Cardozo doesn't deserve to be in the top 50. Only 2 years ago, the difference between Cardozo and Brooklyn was 5 spots. The fact is, 'Bozo has the same or even worse placement statistics than BLS and if it edges out BLS in any area, its because of the pro-Jew administration. We all know Jews help out other Jews. So all this hate on Brooklyn is really un-called for because Cardozo should be in the same boat. There are just as many Dozo grads on doc review gigs as BLS grads - you just don't hear them venting on the internet about it, that's all.

UH is good if you want to work in big law in Houston or Dallas, or just get a good job anywhere in Texas. The top 30% gets pretty much automatic placement wherever. I'm dead middle at 50% and I have a job lined up in litigation boutique in the Galleria. I'd say for the cost, its great. It is filled with people who really want to be lawyers, not just people that don't know what to do with a liberal arts degree. I'm not saying we are the best school ever, but I'm proud of my degree and confident that I'll be a good lawyer.

Also of importance these days is the New Graduates Assistance Program Dean Nimmer set up. I haven't looked into it because I have a job, but it is supposed to be pretty cool. It gives LLM scholarships, sets up a few fellowships, and some other help for 2009 grads.

Cardozo doesn't deserve to be in the top 50. Only 2 years ago, the difference between Cardozo and Brooklyn was 5 spots. The fact is, 'Bozo has the same or even worse placement statistics than BLS and if it edges out BLS in any area, its because of the pro-Jew administration. We all know Jews help out other Jews. So all this hate on Brooklyn is really un-called for because Cardozo should be in the same boat. There are just as many Dozo grads on doc review gigs as BLS grads - you just don't hear them venting on the internet about it, that's all.

The top 25 schools have national name recognition in the legal profession.

The next 25 have some national recognition, significant regional recognition and local cache.

The rest just give you varying degrees of regional-local recognition, both good and bad.

Sometimes its positive e.g. Duquesne University School of law is respected in Pittsburgh, PA but virtually unheard of anywhere else.

Counter this with Widener School of law is only known in the Harrisburg-Philly, PA and Wilmington, DE region where most firms in this region would never hire graduates from there!!

Basically, the BLS grad thought he was purchasing a pole position into the local NYC market, but he should have looked into the details, he did not so now he needs to make something happen based upon his own skill set.

You've got the degree, now get to work. After a few years into your legal career no one will care where you got your degree from if your good!! If you suck, it does not matter where you get your degree, you might get your foot in the door because of name recognition, but you will soon be shown the door because you do not produce. Lack of name recognition stacks the deck against you initially but if you get a chance and prove them wrong then you'll be viewed differently.

A legal career is more like a marathon than a sprint, endurance is the key not just being at the front of the pack after the first 100 meters.

Everyone needs to get rid of the sense of entitlement, work hard, get and win a name making case and then the practice and clients will follow.

The top 25 schools have national name recognition in the legal profession.

The next 25 have some national recognition, significant regional recognition and local cache.

The rest just give you varying degrees of regional-local recognition, both good and bad.

Sometimes its positive e.g. Duquesne University School of law is respected in Pittsburgh, PA but virtually unheard of anywhere else.

Counter this with Widener School of law is only known in the Harrisburg-Philly, PA and Wilmington, DE region where most firms in this region would never hire graduates from there!!

Basically, the BLS grad thought he was purchasing a pole position into the local NYC market, but he should have looked into the details, he did not so now he needs to make something happen based upon his own skill set.

You've got the degree, now get to work. After a few years into your legal career no one will care where you got your degree from if your good!! If you suck, it does not matter where you get your degree, you might get your foot in the door because of name recognition, but you will soon be shown the door because you do not produce. Lack of name recognition stacks the deck against you initially but if you get a chance and prove them wrong then you'll be viewed differently.

A legal career is more like a marathon than a sprint, endurance is the key not just being at the front of the pack after the first 100 meters.

Everyone needs to get rid of the sense of entitlement, work hard, get and win a name making case and then the practice and clients will follow.

Is this where I make comments?

I think there are some racial undertones to 141's post.

The top 25 schools have national name recognition in the legal profession.

The next 25 have some national recognition, significant regional recognition and local cache.

The rest just give you varying degrees of regional-local recognition, both good and bad.

Sometimes its positive e.g. Duquesne University School of law is respected in Pittsburgh, PA but virtually unheard of anywhere else.

Counter this with Widener School of law is only known in the Harrisburg-Philly, PA and Wilmington, DE region where most firms in this region would never hire graduates from there!!

Basically, the BLS grad thought he was purchasing a pole position into the local NYC market, but he should have looked into the details, he did not so now he needs to make something happen based upon his own skill set.

You've got the degree, now get to work. After a few years into your legal career no one will care where you got your degree from if your good!! If you suck, it does not matter where you get your degree, you might get your foot in the door because of name recognition, but you will soon be shown the door because you do not produce. Lack of name recognition stacks the deck against you initially but if you get a chance and prove them wrong then you'll be viewed differently.

A legal career is more like a marathon than a sprint, endurance is the key not just being at the front of the pack after the first 100 meters.

Everyone needs to get rid of the sense of entitlement, work hard, get and win a name making case and then the practice and clients will follow.

ha, Temple better than Nova, thats a good one.

Cardozo = New Israel

Regarding the "3.0" student from Brooklyn without a job . . . . Maybe you should have done better than managing to get only a 3.0 ?? Ever think about that ?

That's like saying, "I could only get into a mediocre school, and I was only able to get mediocre grades." . . . Shock: you don't have a job !

Post 5: re: "I don't even have to ask the question; I assume that none of these schools are accredited by the American Bar Association."

Yea, cause tier-1 law schools are not accredited? You're an idiot. Being accredited is not exactly a major hurdle to clear. Maybe next time you should "ask the question."

There's a very good reason why biglaw prefers to hire top 15% from a crappy school than middle tier from a good school:

Being a hard worker is more important to a biglaw career than being smart.

It's that simple--and that obvious from the hiring policies. All of the chumps from Tier 2 schools bragging about how they are as prestigous as T-14s because they are at Skadden just prove that a job at Skadden doesn't prove you have a brain--just that you're willing to eat shit for 2500 hours a year.

116 (and others)

Why is anybody interesting in "outing" P.E. Either he's real or he isn't. Either way, who gives a fuck.

I think he adds an interesting perspective regardless of his actual story.

-Not P.E

Not sure about the negative comment with respect to minorities at Uconn. That excuse is pretty old. Some of the minority students I come across are pretty hungry and have worked their asses off during my time here.

I went to Oklahoma, and now I'm a partner at a nice firm in Enid, Oklahoma.

Enid Secure

P.S. YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS

I went to Oklahoma, and now I'm a partner at a nice firm in Enid, Oklahoma.

Enid Secure

P.S. YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS

Dear law schools,

if you're ranked 50-100, you're not "Tier 1".

US News may drop straight from Tier 1 to Tier 3, but it's a farce and everyone knows it

Love,
the legal profession

I don't understand why BLS get so much crap on ATL and from ATL editors.

For all the 2Ls out there summering at a NYC firm this summer, you are going to see exactly how well BLS is represented at the top firms. Every firm will have at least 1-2 BLS students and 3-5 at some the V10 (putting them right behind Harvard, CLS, NYU and Fordham). For all the crap BLS takes online, firms in NYC loves recruiting its top students (top 20% or so).

Plus some of the biggest players out there (and especially so at the firm I am going to) are BLS alums. Take Frank Aquila at SullCrom, Dennis Block at cadwalader, and Stephen J. Dannhauser - chairman of Weil. So it might be a good idea to check that warped view of BLS at the door. NYC firms are full of BLS laywers (and obviously HLS, CLS, NYU and Fordham too) so you do not want to piss anyone off.

Its just amazing that lawschools can charge this much tuition because a few graduates are able to command six figure salaries right out of lawschool, and even more incredible that lawstudents fall for this scam. Aren't lawstudents supposed to be smarter?

127 - what planet are you on? Penn's law school is in Carlisle?

157,
I ask the simple question: What are you doing on this site? Why do you spell law students, and law schools as one word (lawstudents, lawschools)? And since you are not a lawyer, or a "lawstudent" why does this concern you?

-Tarbosh

P.S. It is very bold for a part-time bank teller (you) to accuse "lawstudents" of being ignorant.

Look at all the comments here defending Houston law school. Apparently the school adminstration is trying to do some damage control over the revelation that they are paying stipends to nonprofit organization so that they will hire their law school grads for a short while, just long enough for Houston to rig the US NEWS employment stats one more time.

Of course almost all the law school pull this stats fraud on their applicants, and the attorney general does nothing about it....

Baylor is a miserable land from which I dropped out after realizing my friends at UT were going to get better jobs without going through The Paper Chase on steroids. Though that guy failed the bar and does title work, but HIS friends got better jobs.

That said I don't understand why they are ranked so low. They do prepare students extremely well and their bar pass rate is damn near 98%. The finally got rid of the absurd grade deflation (somewhat) and I have friends from my ~35 person class who went on to Baker Botts, Fulbright, DLA, and the like. So what gives actual graduating students? Is it the quarter system? Terrible location? What keeps them so deeply in the cellar?

THE U

you idiots need to recognize

THE U

you idiots need to recognize

159 - oh wah, when did this site become the grammer/spelling police. I thought we did away with that when Elie came on board. Way to ignore the substance and focus solely on appearances.

147 - never met anyone who had the choice who picked Nova. Says a lot.

Having read several comment boards on ATL in the last few weeks, it is evident that this site is largely filled with mean, nasty people who make grand assumptions about others' motivations and have little actual knowledge as to how the legal and business world actually works. First, some people do actually go to law school for reasons other than money. Second, where you start out of law school in no way determines where you end up either financially or in terms of prestige or job satisfaction. Third, success in the legal profession comes down to who you know and how well you can network. In the grand scheme of things, a school dropping from 53 to 56, or whatever, means little to nothing.

There are no decent law schools in Florida. UF sucks in the rankings cause all they care about is "diversity". UF waitlisted me because I'm white and I come from a "privileged" background. Screw them, I'm going to a T14 school. A UF degree is worthless anyways. If you want a job in Miami, a UM degree is worth way more than a degree from UF. And where else in Florida would you wanna be practicing law? UF needs to get their priorities straight.

Are any of the comments from people who are actual working, or are they just from the nerds that sit in the front of the class in law school and thought they were too cool for the pre-law discussion boards? No need to flex your thread muscles and talk shit about other people's schools.

Takeaway - these are all fine schools if you know you want to practice in the local area.

Big 3 in Texas? Why not U of H? Liskow or Stone in New Orleans? Why not LSU?

You get the drill.

I feel like most of the commenters here are the kids in law school that most people hate. No need to get thread muscles and talk shit about other people's schools.

150 - You are EXACTLY right.

I go to a T20 school. It doesn't fucking matter if you go to University of Florida or a school ranked from 15 to 100.

The only people who get jobs because of their school's reputation are those inside the T14. They earned it because they worked their asses off to get there.

The rest of us should stop whining and realize that Fortune 500 clients do not want us unless we were ranked in the Top 10%.

Really, if you went to University of Minnesota, you have no more claim to prestige than the University of Connecticut.

To those who say that a degree from these #50-75 schools cost $110K... check out Cincinnati. In-state tuition is about $20K. If you're out-of-state, live on the KY side of the river for the first year and you'll get charged in-state tuition (a sweet loophole). The cost of living is low, so you can get by on a part-time job. So don't live like a rock star, and you've got yourself a JD from a respectable school or $60K. In fact, it's really the best school you can go to if you intend to stay in the region.

I graduated in the top 1/3 of my class at Houston a few years ago. The market has clearly changed, but I had no trouble finding a biglaw job in patent law (though I ultimately declined). There are many excellent IP boutiques in and around Texas that offer a great lifestyle.

Also, I didn't have to take on any debt. For IP, Houston offers a true bargain.

150--the problem is that there is a massive supply of people who are BOTH hardworking and really smart.

You cannot be just one of the above to make a career out of BigLaw. Sure, you can pose for a few years, but your capabilities will eventually be recognized.

People that go to schools ranked outside of the Top 14 have this ridiculous idea that they are the workhorses of the legal profession. They just completely underestimate the competition at T14 schools.

I went to a Top 100 and transferred to a T14. The students at the T14 are much smarter and on the average work much harder than the students at the T14. That is why they are at the T14!!!!

Top 5% at a T100 = an average law student in the T14 (except for Georgetown, then Top 20%). It is the hard truth.

This thread is severely lacking in Emory...

I happen to be a practicing lawyer, but I don't work in BigLaw. The only reason I am on this thread or even ATL at all (which I feel is full of BigLaw douchebags) is because I went to Brooklyn and my law school is the topic of this thread. I agree w/. some of the comments above that BLS shouldn't be singled out because it really isn't that much worse off from other local schools like CARDOZO (how they are ranked higher is beyond me, I had scholarship offers from both Cardozo and BLS that were equivalent but chose BLS because of location) or NYLS, St. John's, Hofstra, or Pace, Touro, etc. I think if you prove yourself a competent attorney, where you attended law school means little.
This BLS grad who is whining on Craigslist after not finding employment for 3 years is simply using the school as a scapehgoat. I graduated near the bottom and found a job just fine (yes, and I was dumped into the legal job market from Bklyn right after 9/11 when the legal market really stunk). I found a job and stuck with it, and now I'm making 6 figures in midlaw.

I don't understand all this hate with specific schools. I do think the BLS administration was not truthful in reporting its Part time admissions stats to USNW&R. In the past few years, it has not accurately reported employment statistics either, and now that "game"type has affected its reputation. But the bottom line is that it still attracts a quality student body, and its graduates do quite well in the NYC job market ,,,provided of course they don't go on Craigslist and blame the school for their own paricular defects in finding employment (which probably have nothing to do with their choice of LS).

- my 2 cents from a BLS graduate

168,
Miami is a great place if you want to get shot or have little cuban babies. I'll take Jax or Tampa over Miami any day.

-Tarbosh

Instate tuition at any of the public schools ranked in this range is a steal. I'm paying a total of 27K in tuition for my degree, and lost opportunity costs aside, it will pay off no matter what legal job I take. I do happen to have biglaw lined up, but I made the choice to attend one of these schools long before that was the case.

One more comment for the UF/FSU debate: who cares? I don't hear UCLA and Berkeley or UNC and Wake bickering this much! You are two comparably ranked schools with similar career prospects and similar tuition costs. No one gives a damn which of these schools is marginally "better." That said, FSU's sports teams have been an embarassment for at least two years running.

Instate tuition at any of the public schools ranked in this range is a steal. I'm paying a total of 27K in tuition for my degree, and lost opportunity costs aside, it will pay off no matter what legal job I take. I do happen to have biglaw lined up, but I made the choice to attend one of these schools long before that was the case.

One more comment for the UF/FSU debate: who cares? I don't hear UCLA and Berkeley or UNC and Wake bickering this much! You are two comparably ranked schools with similar career prospects and similar tuition costs. No one gives a damn which of these schools is marginally "better." That said, FSU's sports teams have been an embarassment for at least two years running.

I moved across the country for Lewis & Clark's environmental law program--fantastic law school experience, cooperative and ambitious students, stellar professors and small classes. Plus, Portland is really cool town with good food, music and proximity to beaches, mountains, deserts, skiing, hiking, etc. The campus (bordered by 800 acres of forest) and quality of life at L&C, combined with the educational experience, is well worth the $120K in debt. I graduated in top 20% with law review, moved back across the country (into a market saturated with T20 grads) and landed an good job in no time. If you are more concerned with the quality of your education and law school experience than your perceived "prestige," I highly recommend checking out Lewis & Clark.

@173 - Agreed. & a degree from Cincinnati gets a job in the region as well or better than Case Western Reserve without the imposing debt & as well as Ohio State mostly because the class size is so small (not that anyone really wants to live in Ohio....)

U Conn has a special little course only open to people who bomb miserably in class the first year and are in danger of failing out. Har. It's an easy A. Guess how many who attend are minorities.

183 I'm a UConn Student and there is no such class. You are just racist

183 I'm a UConn Student and there is no such class. You are just racist

@161 -

I made the same move as you.... Went to Baylor, realized you actually had to work there, and then transferred to UT.

Baylor would probably have been much better than UT at teaching me the law or how to be a lawyer, but you're stuck in Waco FFS.

The reason Baylor will NEVER rise in the rankings, and will continue to drop is two fold: (1) Too much incest - Baylor has a knack for hiring only its grads as professors - bad move, no diversity; (2) SERIOUS lack of ties with law firms in Dallas/Houston/San Antonio/Austin. In my entire 1L year, I did not see a single luncheon sponsored by a firm from Houston/Dallas/San Antonio/Austin. How can it be that a law school with an endowment as big as Baylor's cannot get a firm to sponsor a luncheon. Although this is second hand, I also heard that the Law review doesn't even get swag sent from law firms, nor sponsored lunches, breakfasts, or anything.

I cannot even tell you how many times a WEEK there was events sponsored by law firms at UT, or how much swag the journals at UT received from big firms.

Baylor will continue to drown in its own shit.... Not to mention that Baylor has THREE entering classes - Fall, Spring & Winter. It seemed to me that the spring and winter students were borderline retarded, and the school entirely depends on the stringent requirements for Fall entry to keep them afloat in any rankings system. Get rid of the discrepency between fall, spring, and winter starters.

That being said, Baylor had a sweet campus, and I could park 20 yards from the front door everyday.

Oh yeah, I thinnk we had like 1-2 minorities in the entire class too - that can't help with diversity either.

okthxbye....

Temple has more recognition in Philly then Nova? Maybe with the cops--Temple=Ghetto

Temple has more recognition in Philly then Nova? Maybe with the cops--Temple=Ghetto

184/185-it's invite only...it meets tri-annually at a place known as "The Meadows"

@90:

Having a hard science degree isn't quite the free ride you're implying. I have a hard science degree (with a GPA much better than 2.0) and went to a T15 law school. I did get offers from firms that normally required higher law school GPA's, but it didn't guarantee interviews and offers everywhere I applied.

On topic, I've been at a couple Biglaw firms in NYC, and have known associates from all the schools listed here. So it's certainly possible, but I suspect you have to be at the top of your class, as most associates were from T20 schools or relatively well ranked regional schools (e.g., Fordham). You certainly can't count on a Biglaw job from these schools, like the ill-informed Craigslister.

184/185 - yes there is, and it's called "Advanced Legal Methods" - see below from the UConn Law website:

This course provides focused training in legal analysis, reasoning and writing, and is designed to help students improve their skills in those areas. Enrollment is limited to students in their second year of law school, and is with the permission of the instructor only.

Course Information
Catalog number-Section number: 550-01
Course Type: Lecture
Prerequisites: None
Credits (min/max): 3/3
Notes: This course has selective enrollment. Please see Professor Marcia Glickman or the Registrar for additional information.

Grading
Grade basis: Graded
Satisifies Writing Requirement: No
Exam type: NO EXAM

Temple and Villanova have competed for Philly area law students for many years. There's Penn law....and then there's Temple and Villanova.

On the one hand, Villanova costs a lot more. But, Villanova has a nice, safe, suburban, leafy campus. Also, Villanova has a brand new law building that is very impressive.

Temple, on the other hand, has a law building that looks like a federal prison. Seriously. It is old, dark, and dreary. It's in a really dangerous part of Philly. The only thing it has going for it is that it's a public school: cheap tuition for in state people. Temple, you better get on top of your game fast!

CANES

you idiots better recognize the U

Temple and Nova are both good law schools (obviously) and both are good with the Philly market. I chose Nova (didn't even apply to Temple) because I wanted to be in Philly after law school but didn't want to live in the city /go to school in the city during law school. I liked the mainline, even though now my student loans are double the ones my temple co-workers have! I must say, though, it seems like more people I graduated with are employed than are temple people, but I'm not sure that's accurate or just my experience.

CANES

you idiots better recognize the U

CANES

you idiots better recognize the U

CANES

you idiots better recognize the U

da U!

It's not where you get your degree; it's what you do with it once you obtain the degree. I am an Oklahoma grad and have been up and down the east coast (Boston to DC) at big law and big 4; practicing with the ivory tower crowd. Most of that crowd has no concept of hard work or quality work. They expect things to be given (e.g., lock-step) when in fact it should be earned. Most of them should still be breast feeding.

San Diego Alum at the NYC office a V50 firm. Anything can be done if you work hard enough.

It's not where you get your degree; it's what you do with it once you obtain the degree. I am an Oklahoma grad and have been up and down the east coast (Boston to DC) at big law and big 4; practicing with the ivory tower crowd. Most of that crowd has no concept of hard work or quality work. They expect things to be given (e.g., lock-step) when in fact it should be earned. Most of them should still be breast feeding.

What really counts--Go Canes, fuck Boston.

I went to UConn Law and was very happy there. Before law school, I was a mediocre student at T10 liberal arts college in the Northeast. Many of my classmates were either mediocre students from Ivy's and top liberal arts colleges, or they were top students from lower-ranked undergrad institutions. All in all, a fairly intelligent bunch. The atmosphere was rather collegial, and I was top 10% and law review without too much effort. Class sizes were surprisingly small for a state school, the profs were approachable, and there were even some real superstars in the bunch (like Rick Pomp, who is a masterful teacher of tax law). I now have a nice job that I enjoy, a good salary, and a very manageable monthly payment on my student loans. The only downside was 3 years in Hartford, which is not a cultural hub but is also not horrible. Anyone looking for a decent law school outside of Tier 1 ('cuz let's face it, 52 is hardly Tier 1 no matter how hard US News tries to stroke our fragile egos) would be well served to look at UConn.

Reading this thread makes me realize that I'd rather go to a hell world like Salusa Secundus rather than rub my elbows with the dregs of law like many of you.

202, unfortunately we cannot all be cool Dune fans like yourself.

202 = bottom of the class at a T10 school who's still using his lsat and undergrad gpa to cling to a feeling of superiority even though he failed at law school and now has to leave the ivory tower to start at a "litigation boutique" aka insurance defense firm.

204

I sincerely hope that you don't use assumptions like that during your final exams. This cardinal error probably explains why you're unemployed like your fellow mouth breather from BLS.

Next time, do take the time to read the commercial outlines before raising your hand in class and opening your mouth.

By the way, your mouth smells like ass. Another cogent explanation for your terminal unemployment.

LSU = Boot Camp for Lawyers. They don't fail out half of their freshmen class for nothing.

As a current UC law student I don't want to ruin anyone's future promissory estoppel claim (or maybe I do).

When considering whether to attend the incredibly prestigious University of Cincinnati school of law please consider the following factors:

1) The law library is frequently infiltrated by high school students from across the street. They are obviously incredibly loud and do a fine job of making it impossible to study. The administration is ok with this because we are a public library and want to accommodate.

2) A female student was assaulted by a male in the women's restroom. The administration's response was nothing more than offering a self defense class. If you are a female you're current options are: (1) Don't ever have to pee; (2) Carry mace at all times in the building.

3) The ranking policy was so horrible that it had to be changed to prevent a student riot. The new ranking will not go into effect until after next year's hiring season because it was "technologically infeasible" to figure out a way to put numbers in order in under 2.5 months.

4) The students' request, yes from the students themselves, to have a Sports Law class was denied because they thought there would be a lack of student interest.

5) There are no built in outlets to plug in your laptop. We currently just use chains of surge protectors. There are not even enough surge protectors.

6) The student's requested that some study rooms be put in the parts of the library that are never used. They built the room but are going to be used as offices for the professors (Not sure who got screwed more on that one).

7) The entire 2L class had to postpone their job search due to transcripts being delayed because one professor was a month late on grading exams.

8) They stopped doing free coffee Tuesdays.

9) A student lost her fellowship because the administration would not return the donor's phone call. He understandably froze all the funds.

10) TBA

As a current UC law student I don't want to ruin anyone's future promissory estoppel claim (or maybe I do).

When considering whether to attend the incredibly prestigious University of Cincinnati school of law please consider the following factors:

1) The law library is frequently infiltrated by high school students from across the street. They are obviously incredibly loud and do a fine job of making it impossible to study. The administration is ok with this because we are a public library and want to accommodate.

2) A female student was assaulted by a male in the women's restroom. The administration's response was nothing more than offering a self defense class. If you are a female you're current options are: (1) Don't ever have to pee; (2) Carry mace at all times in the building.

3) The ranking policy was so horrible that it had to be changed to prevent a student riot. The new ranking will not go into effect until after next year's hiring season because it was "technologically infeasible" to figure out a way to put numbers in order in under 2.5 months.

4) The students' request, yes from the students themselves, to have a Sports Law class was denied because they thought there would be a lack of student interest.

5) There are no built in outlets to plug in your laptop. We currently just use chains of surge protectors. There are not even enough surge protectors.

6) The student's requested that some study rooms be put in the parts of the library that are never used. They built the room but are going to be used as offices for the professors (Not sure who got screwed more on that one).

7) The entire 2L class had to postpone their job search due to transcripts being delayed because one professor was a month late on grading exams.

8) They stopped doing free coffee Tuesdays.

9) A student lost her fellowship because the administration would not return the donor's phone call. He understandably froze all the funds.

10) TBA

As a current UC law student I don't want to ruin anyone's future promissory estoppel claim (or maybe I do).

When considering whether to attend the incredibly prestigious University of Cincinnati school of law please consider the following factors:

1) The law library is frequently infiltrated by high school students from across the street. They are obviously incredibly loud and do a fine job of making it impossible to study. The administration is ok with this because we are a public library and want to accommodate.

2) A female student was assaulted by a male in the women's restroom. The administration's response was nothing more than offering a self defense class. If you are a female you're current options are: (1) Don't ever have to pee; (2) Carry mace at all times in the building.

3) The ranking policy was so horrible that it had to be changed to prevent a student riot. The new ranking will not go into effect until after next year's hiring season because it was "technologically infeasible" to figure out a way to put numbers in order in under 2.5 months.

4) The students' request, yes from the students themselves, to have a Sports Law class was denied because they thought there would be a lack of student interest.

5) There are no built in outlets to plug in your laptop. We currently just use chains of surge protectors. There are not even enough surge protectors.

6) The student's requested that some study rooms be put in the parts of the library that are never used. They built the room but are going to be used as offices for the professors (Not sure who got screwed more on that one).

7) The entire 2L class had to postpone their job search due to transcripts being delayed because one professor was a month late on grading exams.

8) They stopped doing free coffee Tuesdays.

9) A student lost her fellowship because the administration would not return the donor's phone call. He understandably froze all the funds.

10) TBA

As a current UC law student I don't want to ruin anyone's future promissory estoppel claim (or maybe I do).

When considering whether to attend the incredibly prestigious University of Cincinnati school of law please consider the following factors:

1) The law library is frequently infiltrated by high school students from across the street. They are obviously incredibly loud and do a fine job of making it impossible to study. The administration is ok with this because we are a public library and want to accommodate.

2) A female student was assaulted by a male in the women's restroom. The administration's response was nothing more than offering a self defense class. If you are a female you're current options are: (1) Don't ever have to pee; (2) Carry mace at all times in the building.

3) The ranking policy was so horrible that it had to be changed to prevent a student riot. The new ranking will not go into effect until after next year's hiring season because it was "technologically infeasible" to figure out a way to put numbers in order in under 2.5 months.

4) The students' request, yes from the students themselves, to have a Sports Law class was denied because they thought there would be a lack of student interest.

5) There are no built in outlets to plug in your laptop. We currently just use chains of surge protectors. There are not even enough surge protectors.

6) The student's requested that some study rooms be put in the parts of the library that are never used. They built the room but are going to be used as offices for the professors (Not sure who got screwed more on that one).

7) The entire 2L class had to postpone their job search due to transcripts being delayed because one professor was a month late on grading exams.

8) They stopped doing free coffee Tuesdays.

9) A student lost her fellowship because the administration would not return the donor's phone call. He understandably froze all the funds.

10) TBA

MIAMI HURRICANES U IMBECILES

get out the way or get smacked out the way

how bout those gay-tors slippin

This country has a surplus of lawyers, and having a law degree does not change economic reality.

I would like to feel bad for the craigslist poster, but the popular conception of lawyers as bottom feeding parasites on society has some merit. Not becoming a lawyer might be the best thing that ever happened to him

I did my 1L year at University of Houston (in the second half of this decade) and then transferred to a T14 school, so I've seen both. Absolutely no reservations in saying the quality of legal education at UH is within spitting distance of top programs. I felt better prepared in legal writing than my new 2L/3L classmates, at least as well prepared in Contracts and CivPro, and can't think of a glaring weakness I faced that left me feeling like I had to catch up (at least in areas the school had anything to do with).

Other comments nailed it: UH punches above its weight big time by virtue of being the clear #1 school in Houston, the fourth largest city in the country, not to mention either the 2nd or 3rd best school in Texas, the second largest state. The legal market is huge in Houston, and the UH brand is very well respected there, particularly in litigation, IP and Health Care (UH has a national reputation for the latter two). The federal courthouse has something like a dozen district judges, plus a commensurate number of magistrates, bankruptcy judges, etc., almost all of whom take on more interns from UH than any other school.

The students are mostly very friendly and helpful (read: helpful, not merely non-competitive), and slightly older and more serious about actually becoming lawyers. Most professors are legitimate experts and come from prestigious academic backgrounds (they're not just biglaw dropouts pursuing second careers; they actually pursued the academic track and came from schools like Yale, Berkeley, Harvard, etc.).

The bad stuff: besides the ho-hum facilities, career services sucks, unless you're one of the chosen few who are in the top 10% or better. It was shocking the difference in how they treated me before and after first semester grades came out. Before they separate the wheat from the chafe, they were pleasant but useless. After they've decided you're highly employable, they invite you in, let you speak directly with the assistant dean instead of going first through your assigned career counselor, and generally treat you like a god. So if you do well, they do well by you. Hey, I benefited from it, but I found the disparity in treatment shocking and unfair, especially because it's the students not in the upper bracket who need more help getting jobs. And even though I thought they did a decent job with class-wide efforts like seminars and lunches and training programs to give you the information you need to make yourself employable, the disparity continued here as well: they did a special seminar over the summer before on campus interviews began just for the Law Review students.

If you get into a top school, go. The value of reputation in this biz is just too high to ignore. I transferred for that reason. (Note, I am NOT recommending anyone go to UH with the expectation of transferring--that's just a stupid plan to bank on no matter what school you're at. You will do better if you go as I did, mentally committed and enthusiastic about making UH your home for three years, and seize on any opportunities as pleasant surprises if they come. Plus, giving off a vibe you don't want to be there is a good way to be perceived as a bitch, rightly so.) But if you don't get into a T25 school, but know you want to be a lawyer, going to UH is among your better bets.

194 - it's just you.

Wait, I thought UPenn State was in the T14? What happened?

@213 - I call BS!

You never transferred, you're lying ass stayed at UH...

Now you're clearly trolling....

UH sucks... Its building is awful...and the faculty is a joke...

the caliber of students is the worst out of the top 4 schools in Texas (UT, SMU, Baylor)...

the only good thing about UH is that it's in Houston, which is a great city, and UH has decent ties to the big firms in Houston...

Otherwise...talk about TTT.... When I worked in Houston the UH first years were always the worst... i kept trying to convince the partners to take more students from UT and Baylor... or even South Texas (also in Houston) before UH sTTTudents, who frankly, just were not intelligent enough to be attorneys....

UH and Thomas Cooley...is there really any difference?

177-you went to brooklyn because of the location? oh yeah, i'd much rather be in crooklyn than in the heart of manhattan. do you like to get robbed? brooklyn didn't even report their night school numbers and we're still ahead of you.

Top Tier Troll

At GSU my total student loan debt, including a study abroad program, ended up less than a single year's tuition at the private schools. Enjoying my federal clerkship now.

Carry on.

I've never understood all the ripping on Loyola (LA).

The PT program does drag down the ranking, but Biglaw obviously has no problem recruiting there.

Whiney little bitch with a B-average and no motivation blames the world for his/her problems. McDonalds is always hiring.

i went to UF LAW, during their library construction. get this, we spent a period of time using an abandoned Publix grocery store as our Law Library, seriously, and it was during finals.

i cant imagine a lot of people who were thinking about going there during the few years of construction applied after touring the construction site campus. they probably lost money and now are admitting people with low SAT and GPA. From what i can tell from the rankings they are admitting the same range or lower than they were in 2001. Thats not good, especially when its that low.

anyway, i live in nyc now, unemployed with monster debt. i went on an interview a while back and the associate said, oh, the Seminoles! so, uh, UF is not competitive outside of the SE that is for sure.

Whiney little bitch with a B-average and no motivation blames the world for his/her problems. McDonalds is always hiring.

@216 - suck it! If the TTT firm you worked at in Houston could only manage to attract first years from the bottom third of UH's class, you don't get to complain. UH produces many top notch lawyers, and many bad ones; but I defy you to name a school that doesn't produce bad ones.

I graduated from Brooklyn Law School and will vouch for it as an institution (no i am not a homer and obviously there are substantial problems with any school). It is often overshadowed by other NYC programs like Columbia and NYU, but I found the quality of the courses and professors to be pretty decent. Also the students at BLS average a 163 on the LSATS - it is only ranked lower on US News due to other useless categories (see the Leitner rankings which highly ranks BLS based on the quality of students etc and not libraries).

With respect landing a post-school job, I have a great job at a respected mid-sized (80) firm. And no i was not on law review or in the top 10%. The vast majority of my friends from BLS also have good jobs. To the extent you could not land a job, part of the reason is that you had a 3.0 - sorry, thats reality in an exceedingly difficult recruiting climate.

UF 3L's got to see 3 national championships and are graduating with very little debt from a school that has a good rep in Florida and Atlanta. If you want to work in Florida it is the best place to go to school. If you want to work in Atlanta but cant get instate tuition at UGA UF is a good choice. You do have to get good grades if you want a high paying job, but that is true for any school outside the t14.
And FSU trolls- your football team sucks

Among the larger firms with offices in Miami (Greenberg, Akerman, H&K, and White & Case), Florida and UM each has far more alumni than FSU. It could be a function of geography, reputation, or (most likely) smaller class sizes.

If you want to practice in South Florida, UM and UF are the best places to go. UM has the advantage of being local, so your ability to work during the year is a plus. Florida has by far the largest alumni base of any school in the state, and the best reputation among the recruiting managers I've spoken with.

Florida's ranking will be back in the 1st Tier next year as a result of the slashing of the class size by 25%. I heard chatter from UF administrators that the cut wasn't done to influence rankings, but I don't think that's entirely true.

202: true, but it's civil law boot camp. their common law and federal programs are laughable.

if you ever want to practice out of state you're going to be teaching yourself the UCC.

191- You are really reaching. (1) That class has not been offered the last 3 years. (2) Professor Glickman is not even a professor at UConn anymore. (3) That course is not listed on the catalog so you really went digging.

The course was not for people who are on academic probation but was directed at people who did not reason/write well, mainly people who failed Lawyering Process because of a language barrier. In 2006, the last time the class was offered, no minority student was enrolled in that class. That is a class reserved mainly for english as a second language students.

Making stupid comments only serve to reveal the douchebag that you are and highlight that you were either (a) rejected by UConn or (b) scraped in into the evening program and now dwell at the bottom of the class ranking.

223 -- Heartless!

In all seriousness, I would only got to U. of Miami if I wanted to get shot.

UF and UM are the only schools that give students a shot at Miami BigLaw.

Do a profile search on [insert big firm here]'s website and look at the associates' alma maters. FSU doesn't place well, does it?

In all fairness, UF students still have to be in the top 25%/Law Review for a realistic shot at a biglaw job.

Adding on to 213 - when the career development office realizes that you are a potential talking point (or at least not a statistic they have to hide) the assistant dean will be in touch regularly and will even call or email you to offer a weekly apology when a bigtex firm screws you royally.

25% is enough for biglaw from UH (top 33% for IP or a good professional background) but given the state of market freefall, those numbers have tightened to 15% and 25%.

The school itself is a dump that still reeks of a mildew smell from the flooding several years ago. UH is a 4th tier undergraduate institution. Undergrads at UH tend to fall in the "mouth-breather" category. My entering law center class was made up of less than 3% UH undergrads.

For all of the effort, I'm taking a non-law position with a large energy company that pays the same as the lower end of biglaw and has a 9/80 work schedule.

Go pioneers.

Hey 218 - you've obviously never been to Brooklyn, or have any idea. You think you'll get shot in Brooklyn Heights?!? LOL. Retard.

ATL has such an east coast bent. good to see some comments about UH, Baylor and other schools. I'm a 90s UH grad, bigtex partner, and make a boat load of money. Life is sweet.

UF Law's singular downfall is its decision to worship at the altar of diversity in a way that stretches all credulity. Dean Jerry has swallowed this agenda hook, line, and sinker. This has been a huge mistake, and the school is paying the price for it. You can bet that UF's reputation will continue to sink among hiring partners and rankings for the foreseeable future. A kabal of radicals on the faculty are running that school into the ground.

I went to Oklahoma even though I got into Columbia, WashU, and GULC, (though I was rejected at Yale and NYU) because I am from the state and was interested in a political career during my senior year in college. I did well there and have worked for great Big Law firms in Washington and New York since graduation, but it was a lot harder to get that first placement. There were a lot of my classmates who I think had the horse power to compete with T14 grads but whose decision to take scholarship money or stay local significantly affected their career prospects. Still a few of my classmates made it to big firms in DC, Denver and LA and a decent among made it to big firms in Dallas and Houston.

San Diego grad (a while ago) here. Like 110 said, you can (or at least could) get BigLaw jobs within the SoCal region, although a smattering also got BigLaw jobs in SF and NY. You do need to be at or near the top of the class, though.

San Diego is working hard to improve its reputation and ranking (and it has some interesting programs, like a new energy policy center) so it is probably a decent bet going forward.

Go Gators! Lots of Article III Judges.

Go Gators! Lots of Article III Judges.

UM's not a bad place to go to law school if:
1) You like Miami, or
2) You're graduating in the top 10% of the class, or
3) You have some kind of job security for after graduation.

I'm a 3L, and I fall into the third category. I'm firmly in the bottom 25% of the class, but it doesn't matter since my job - the same job I took on in 2L spring - wants me to stay on after graduation. That they treat me well is a bonus.

But for the vast majority of graduating 3Ls who don't fall into one of those three categories, life is awful. They don't want to stay in Miami after graduation, and they can't distinguish themselves from the hordes of other applicants for jobs. Here, the problem is the students themselves.

People told me when I was applying to law school that if I couldn't get into a T20, then I should go somewhere I'd like to practice. The miserable Miami 3Ls should've heeded that advice.

1. Brooklyn has a great clinical program.

2. Hang out a shingle.

Top 25%, try top 10% from one of these schools, I go to FSU/UCONN/UF, and i know decent top 20%ers who are doing nothing substantial this summer....

@ 207-210: Um, you need to chill out. Whine whine. . . you can fix most of these problems yourself, and the rest aren’t really problems. And what kind of stupid-ass posts complaints about their school on ATL? Maybe once you’ve graduated and been unemployed for a while, you’d be entitled to have a chip on your shoulder about the years and $$ that this law school has robbed you of, but for now, you really ought to quit-yer-bitchin’, study for exams, and try not to drag your school down into the dirt you crawled out of. To address your listed concerns:

1) Loud high school students in the library: First of all, the HS has been under renovation for the last 1.5yrs, and so there are no kids there, for now. Second, if loud people disrupt the library and complain about it, the school will kick them out. Third, if you can’t focus in a PUBLIC library, then study somewhere else.
2) A female student was assaulted in the women's restroom: They locked down all the doors to the building after hours, some of them during the day too. Yes, UC is located in the ghetto. It just makes us more like Chicago.
3) The ranking policy was horrible: The ranking changes will move you up 1-2% if you’re lucky. If you can’t get a job without that bump, tough shit. It sounds like you’re a rising 2L or 3L if you’re worried about fall interviewing—so at least the policy will be implemented by the time you graduate. To anyone considering coming to Cinci, the ranking policy will be in effect by the time you get here.
4) Sports law? Yeah, that is a great way to spend our taxpayer’s dollars, and will surely help you overcome that poor rank to get a job. Sounds like a testosterone-fueled version of law and literature or something.
5) There are no built in outlets to plug in your laptop: Boo hoo… the surge protectors provide the juice, don’t they? Surprise—our building is a ‘70’s renovation of a ‘20’s building, and folks just didn’t anticipate the ubiquity of the laptop back then. UC Law is slated to start construction on a new building within the next few years, funding permitted, and the problem will be solved.
6) The student's requested that some study rooms be put in the parts of the library that are never used. They built the room but are going to be used as offices for the professors: I thought you were Mr(s). quiet library. Maybe if you want to have group meet-ups, the library is not the best place. Try the high school across the street, or perhaps your apartment?
7) The entire 2L class had to postpone their job search due to transcripts being delayed because one professor was a month late on grading exams: Yes, that prof was a dick, but at least he gives mostly A’s. But you don’t have to “postpone” your job search. You just have to follow up with your transcripts later.
8) They stopped doing free coffee Tuesdays: Entitled whiny person. Maybe we could afford outlets by now if they hadn’t been paying for all that coffee.
9) A student lost her fellowship because the administration would not return the donor's phone call. Hadn’t heard about that one.
The only truly annoying thing about Cincinnati is the stupid slogan they keep throwing in our faces… the heavily qualified statement that we’re the premier “small, urban, public” law school. Administration: no one is fooled by this. A turd may be the premier brown, bumpy, smelly object in the bowl, but it is still a turd. Why not just call it like it is… the “premier regional law school” or something to that effect?

To be perfectly frank, if any of these school's charge even $1 they are ripping you off. Truly terrible terrible schools...all of them.

236=Texas Tech Grad
245= Cooley Student

I went to GSU with people from solid undergrad schools--mostly from east coast. UGA, UNC, Vandy, UF, UVA are disproportionately represented in the entering classes. The Health Law Department is tied with Georgetown in USNews. The environmental and land use professors are also rising in the ranks. This is in addition to a pretty strong bankruptcy, corporate tax, corporate finance, payment systems, UCC foudnation. GSU has always been a business law school because of it serves the economic engine of Atlanta. Atlanta has the third largest concentration of Federal Agencies (DC, SF). As a consequence, GSU has a strong externship and placement record with dozens of Federal Agencies and Courts for that matter.

GSU's historical placement record is pretty good. For instance, I practice in an AMLaw100 in a state way far away. I know people from my class who are all over the world. With the law school building their new free standing building in downtown Atlanta, it is bound to keep rising in the rankings, as it has (12 spots this year). GSU also has a very highly ranked public affairs school and business school. The business school has benefited from large donations from Bank of America (Ken Lewis got his BBA at GSU).As a side note, I don't remember there being so much volatility in the rankings.

(Written, not read or edited).

I went to GSU with people from solid undergrad schools--mostly from east coast. UGA, UNC, Vandy, UF, UVA are disproportionately represented in the entering classes. The Health Law Department is tied with Georgetown in USNews. The environmental and land use professors are also rising in the ranks. This is in addition to a pretty strong bankruptcy, corporate tax, corporate finance, payment systems, UCC foudnation. GSU has always been a business law school because of it serves the economic engine of Atlanta. Atlanta has the third largest concentration of Federal Agencies (DC, SF). As a consequence, GSU has a strong externship and placement record with dozens of Federal Agencies and Courts for that matter.

GSU's historical placement record is pretty good. For instance, I practice in an AMLaw100 in a state way far away. I know people from my class who are all over the world. With the law school building their new free standing building in downtown Atlanta, it is bound to keep rising in the rankings, as it has (12 spots this year). GSU also has a very highly ranked public affairs school and business school. The business school has benefited from large donations from Bank of America (Ken Lewis got his BBA at GSU).As a side note, I don't remember there being so much volatility in the rankings.

(Written, not read or edited).

GSU Law was the beneficiary of the Larry Thompson's directive at the Justice Department to expand their ranks outside of the Top 10. Larry, as Deputy Attorney General and now GC at Pepsico, was once a White Collar Crime Professor at GSU Law.

You forgot to mention that Georgia Tech is a big feeder school for Georgia State Law. GSU Law produces a ton of well placed patent attorneys as a result. The architecture school and the law school also have a joint program for JD/MCRP which is pretty amazing. At 8K tuition a year. You can't beat it.

Are you kidding me? Pepperdine ranked higher than Loyola (L.A.)? What a joke.

FSU- not a true statement that must be top 10% for BigLaw or federal clerkship: I personally know two recent grads who clerk at federal level and were both only top 30%, and many (MANY) students at BigLaw who are only top 30%. (I also clerk at federal level, but admittedly was top 5%)

FSU Law is a solid school.

FSU- not a true statement that must be top 10% for BigLaw or federal clerkship: I personally know two recent grads who clerk at federal level and were both only top 30%, and many (MANY) students at BigLaw who are only top 30%. (I also clerk at federal level, but admittedly was top 5%)

FSU Law is a solid school.

Lewis & Clark is the only law school in Portland and it has a great reputation in the region, where the cost of living is decent. So it's a good choice for people who want to live in Oregon, and a horrible choice for anyone who wants to get into BigLaw. 15 lawyers makes a big firm in Portland (you might actually talk to a client at some time before you're 45). Just don't end up near the bottom of the class--those people end up going solo because there aren't enough jobs in the state.

All of these schools suck...I don't understand what all of the crap is about. You could go to Florida Coastal and have the same job prospects as Florida. They are all STD's on society.

GAYtors wear jean shorts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7BZI_ROwMo
all about the U! Go Canes!!!

As a Pepperdine alum, I'm pleased to see its value going up in the ranks. Even on the east coast (where I now practice), I got a lot of favorable comments about it while interviewing (granted not "big law" firms, but good solid middle firms). Its become fairly well respected, not just a novelty "beach" school. Even when I practiced in CA right after graduation, I know many of my peers got jobs at LA's "big law" firms.

Fortunately, at least, I went before tuitions went through the roof, so paying off student loans is manageable. I really shudder at the sums students have to pay these days. I'm not sure I could make those kind of payments without getting a "big law" type job. Even 'middle law' in LA would be difficult to cover payments on $150,000 in loans.

Comment removed by moderator.

229 - by the way...

"In 2006, the last time the class was offered..." - wrong

"no minority student was enrolled in that class" - but at least 1 was in 2007

"stupid comments" - look back at my message. nothing stupid - i simply cut and pasted from the UConn Law website. no editorial attached - just the facts.

"the douchebag that you are" - seriously? douchebag? how old are you? douchebag? i don't see why you take such personal offense to a factual statement.

"you were either (a) rejected by UConn or (b) scraped in into the evening program and now dwell at the bottom of the class ranking." - as I said, I successfully navigated my way out of UConn into a profitable career. I can only hope the same will transpire for you, although your use of the word "douchebag" leads me to believe otherwise.

GAY-TORS are slipping

WATCH OUT FOR THOSE CANES

get on the U train IDIOTS

test

Temple and Villanova are basically identical in student quality.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/ONLG_Default.aspx

Here are their cutoffs (75/25):

Temple day = 164, 160
Villanova all (no evening) = 163, 160
------
Temple all = 164, 159
Temple evening = 161, 157)

If you want to go to school full-time, day, then you're basically deciding whether it is worth $54K in savings or future income (plus interest) since you're looking at 3 yrs times $18K in tuition difference to go to school on the Main Line rather than North Philly.

Florida's problems relate to a serious and long term lack of support from the central administration. A few years ago, the UFL president berated an AALS/ABA inspection team and literally threw them out of his office (he's now gone, luckily for UFL). By way of contrast, the FSU central administration has given the College of Law its full support, including significant discretionary financial support. Both schools have good deans, although Don Weidner is a masterful fundraiser and relishes success on this front; he's also great at both faculty and student recruiting. UFL has been in a state of relative decline for the last 10-20 years; there's nothing that the dean or faculty can do to arrest this; it all comes down to money (or the lack of it). Unless the legislature or central administration seriously boost support for the Levin College of Law, UFL's law school is going to be the second best in the state. The trajectory of each school is very easy to discern. It's a shame, really, because Florida's law school should be in the same league with public schools like North Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama (all ranked in the top 40 pretty consistently). Unless the financial picture changes, however, FSU will be more likely to reach top 40 status than UFL will be to retake it.

259-

Hiring Attorney huh? You do realize you are the equivalent of a Bat Boy on the company softball team.

-Tarbosh

259
I seriously doubt you are who you say for a number of reasons.
As a current student I know for a fact that the class was not offered after fall 2006. Advanced Legal Research is offered every fall, taught by the same professor before she left. This is a class for people with scholarly inclinations, not a class for people who couldn't hack LP.
You may think your firm is prominent but I'm sure it's small shop because you have a lot of time on your hands to troll this site.
Stupid comments referred to your earlier comments in the thread, try to keep up.
There is a difference between taking personal offense and refuting incorrect information. I am doing the latter. I engaged you because I'm friends with many of the minorities on campus and I don't want to see incorrect information about them out there.

Thank you for the well wishes for my career. I am top tier/law review and have a job with a national firm after my clerkship, I think I will do fine. Don't bother asking if I'm sure the job will be there, my future is secure even if that offer were to be rescinded.

My advise to to you is to get your facts straight and maybe bill a few hours huh?

265 - as long as I'm paid over $225K per year, i'll take the bat boy gig with a lower billable quota and lower originations. it's called quality of life, in case you haven't come to figure out there's more than 2500 billables per year.

266 - you don't know how off-base you are:

first, it's advanced legal methods, not advanced legal research

second, i see it was offered last fall with Prof. Mailly (http://www.law.uconn.edu/academics/courses/1088-7550-01)

third, i was not the poster for 183. i have not made a single race-driven comment - only comments to refute your misinformation regarding the existence of a course you seem quite interested denying exists.

i'm all for UConn alums doing well, as it's my alma mater, but just keep YOUR facts straight. my firm has hired 3 UConn law students for this upcoming summer, all in the top 20 of the class, and i look forward to working with them as well as our other candidates. i actually think the UConn candidates may be among the strongest we have coming in, even with others from "better" schools such as Emory, BU and Vanderbilt (no, we are not a small shop).

as for worrying about the time i spend on this site, i suggest as a current student you worry about yourself and stay humble given that you have accomplished nothing in the profession thus far.

I feel for that Brooklyn grad. I graduated from a top 25 school and couldn't get a damned thing. Finally, I just gave up trying to get anything professional and became a cross country truck driver until I could find something better. And no, I am NOT kidding.

UPENN: Philadelphia
PENN STATE (DICKINSON): Carlisle/State College

Okay!?

Despite not being ivy league like UPenn, Penn State is a great law school and will continue to move up the ranks as it moves from being the once more regional Dickinson School of Law to a nationally recognized entity because PSU will invest heavily in it... I think Penn State may be the most powerful entity in the Commonwealth. Disclaimer: I didn't go to PSU law but I considered it heavily with the scholarship they offered. I regret my debt.

Pepperdine in the top 50?!

Are you kidding me? That law school is WAAAAAAAAAAY too conservative and backwards to advance in any way beyond 50-100. You go to that school to parrot what you already believe about the world, not to expand your mind and better understand the practice of law.

105 went to Georgia Tech.

-George P. Burdell

In response to 111--about UNLV. When I first noticed it two years ago, it barely made top 100. They've jumped 25 spots in about two years. Could make it to first tier very soon. Great program, great professors. Also important to note the relatively cheap tuition--even for non-residents. Furthermore, the facility is gorgeous. UCLA is of course an incredible school, and acamdemics cannot be compared here...but UCLA law bathrooms are so disgusting I'd be afraid to even use the toilet. Walk into UNLV's bathroom, you may as well be in...well, a hotel/casino bathroom. Guess Boyd of Boyd Gaming has had his influence! The Vegas community is beyond supportive, and the support has shown.

271/George P. Burdell --

You are correct.

-- 105

27,
Let me get this right, the reason Temple's ranking dropped is because they actually looked at the LSAT/GPA of all the students?

How's that subway and campus treating you guys way up in North Philly after a late-night study session at the 'brary?

I'm at GSU and going BigLaw. I think I know who the federal clerkship guy is. Good to hear from you.

And the White Collar guy is now Don Samuel of TI, Ray Lewis, Bill Campbell, and Gold Club defense fame.

245:

I also went to UC Law. There is at least a penny of merit to each of the things that you say, but you have bitterly taken all of these things out of context and added quite a bit of exaggeration. The fact is every school will have an issue but why you would spend your time bashing your own school is both disrespectful and not useful to you. There are students that go to UC Law that go on to be fine lawyers with a rich urban experience in learning the law. And because this matters on this site, it must be added that UC lawyers go on to work at the most prestigious firms in the country. They are able to achieve this because of the small class size and the environment at the school, which promotes the close professor-student relationships that yield learning and professional development.

245:

I also went to UC Law. There is at least a penny of merit to each of the things that you say, but you have bitterly taken all of these things out of context and added quite a bit of exaggeration. The fact is every school will have an issue but why you would spend your time bashing your own school is both disrespectful and not useful to you. There are students that go to UC Law that go on to be fine lawyers with a rich urban experience in learning the law. And because this matters on this site, it must be added that UC lawyers go on to work at the most prestigious firms in the country. They are able to achieve this because of the small class size and the environment at the school, which promotes the close professor-student relationships that yield learning and professional development.

245:

I also went to UC Law. There is at least a penny of merit to each of the things that you say, but you have bitterly taken all of these things out of context and added quite a bit of exaggeration. The fact is every school will have an issue but why you would spend your time bashing your own school is both disrespectful and not useful to you. There are students that go to UC Law that go on to be fine lawyers with a rich urban experience in learning the law. And because this matters on this site, it must be added that UC lawyers go on to work at the most prestigious firms in the country. They are able to achieve this because of the small class size and the environment at the school, which promotes the close professor-student relationships that yield learning and professional development.

274:
I am a Temple student and have nothing against Villanova and think it is fine law school. However, the way that some commenters on this site (and in the law student community generally) describe Temple's community is not only offensive but horribly inaccurate. Temple is one of the country's largest universities. The campus is not only patrolled by police around the clock but there are people walking around at nearly all hours of the day. I have left the library and taken the subway at 9pm or later on many occasions.
I have benefitted greatly from my experience at Temple. The academics are suberb and I have appreciated going to school in an environment that is more different and diverse from what I am used to. Based on your comment, you could have benefitted from this experience as well as you have slandered a community that you don't even know.
If you are considering Temple. You should know that the professors are outstanding, your classmates will be wonderful, and the community is diverse and interesting. It's a great three years that I will miss. But be warned: It will be hard. The profs hold you to a high standard and your classmates won't mess around either.

246 and 256 - idiots. Such gross generalizations - I doubt that you actually KNOW anything about all of the schools you so blithely dismiss. I went to one of these schools. I liked it. Was it perfect? No. Would I have had better career opportunities at a bigger-name school? Yes. That said, I got a good education, and I have had a good legal career, including government and BigLaw. F**k off.

I agree w/ # 11, except if the letter writer had Prof. Teitcher for legal writing, in which case his grammatical error is fine.

Here are a few things about UConn Law that are dragging us down...

1) Dean Jeremy Paul. When the search for a dean was on, the school could have gone out and found a rising star with some name recognition that could have boosted our profile. Instead, they hired from within, and we're stuck with this awkward clown.

2) The Evening Program. UConn uses this as a backdoor way to let in crappier students and thus collect more tuition. Any evening student can automatically transfer in to the day program after their first year, and I'd estimate that at least 1/2 of the "evening students" aren't working full-time - they're in the evening program because their profile wasn't strong enough for the day time. So then they transfer to the day program, don't get jobs, and screw us over.

3) The Evening Program, redux. SOME of the evening students do very well for themselves - they take a half course load the first year, and if they aren't working a full time job, they can just study their asses off for half the credits and ace all their courses. Then, when they transfer into the day division, they're eligible for Fall OCI...and the school doesn't alert these firms that they're actually evening students who took a half course load, so they get jobs they don't deserve due to their inflated GPA. That doesn't really have an effect on our ranking, I just wanted to highlight this so any evening student at UConn can know that the rest of us hate your fucking worthless guts.

4) Career Services. An earlier poster noted that things have gone downhill since Maria Rivera left. This is untrue - things have always sucked. I landed a job with a BigLaw firm...but not through OCI. This particular firm didn't come to campus, despite being prominent in New England. After I got hired, I asked them why they didn't do OCI at UConn. The answer? Career services had never reached out to them. No joke. I know kids at Quinnipiac who are winding up with better jobs than UConn kids simply because the QU career services has been out there hustling.

5) Faculty. As some others have noted, we do have some distinguished faculty - Pomp, McCoy, Lindseth is a rising star, Lahav, etc. However, we also have a large number of very old and very ineffective educators (Whitman and Day come to mind). UConn needs to trim the fat, and bring in some better talent.

It's really a shame, because the school is affordable, the campus is gorgeous, and the students are generally decent people.

I will echo that minorities are catered to. We even have a "minority recruiting" session in the early spring where large local firms (places like Robinson & Cole and Shipman & Goodwin) come in and hire minority students under the aspect of "diversity" for their summer programs. The problem is that many of these students aren't that distinguished, and were they white, wouldn't even sniff these jobs. I understand why it's done, but it's unfortunate nonetheless.

Oh, and in case anyone is wondering...I'm a graduating 3L, job with NYC BigLaw, top 10% of my class, secondary journal. I don't think that shit is relevant but many of you seem to.

I love guy from the university of miami who says he got a scholarship and went to "a major east coast market". Well, NYC and DC are the only "major east coast markets" and since he didn't say NYC or DC, we can assume he probably works in Bangor, Maine or perhaps some shithole town in North Carolina.

If you went to law school at UM for something other than the girls in Miami, you are a moron.

283 is an IDIOT!

THE U is where its at

269-

Get off your knees and stop trying to blow JoPa....he needs his sleep

265-
I am thrilled your quality of life is so good. Just let it be known that in my firm you would be considered Admin Staff, as opposed to Professional Staff.

Translation, you are the dude who never had guy friends because "girls just understood you better"

Have fun eating in the cafeteria with the secretaries, discussing how you were a little dissapointed with Oprah's book club this past year.

93: funny. And 197/199L I hear you. Those ppl think because they went there they know it all and don't have the slightest clue as to what's going on.

Is the top 10% at Miami really still getting jobs?

270, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I didn't realize that to practice law you have to be a liberal douche.

Please call the faculty at Pepperdine immediately and let them know what it takes to move up in the rankings. A move from 99 in 2005 to 55 in 2010 is just pathetic. If they weren't conservative they could be number one by now.

Now pull your finger out of you butt get back to your $35,000/year ambulance chasing PI work... you have a dog bit claim to file.

270, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I didn't realize that to practice law you have to be a liberal douche.

Please call the faculty at Pepperdine immediately and let them know what it takes to move up in the rankings. A move from 99 in 2005 to 55 in 2010 is just pathetic. If they weren't conservative they could be number one by now.

Now pull your finger out of you butt get back to your $35,000/year ambulance chasing PI work... you have a dog bite claim to file.

I am starting to dislike how popular this place has become. We have about 5% people who are actually smart, and tend to have a bit of an attitude problem (I know I have faults...nobody is perfect...did you hear that DAD, I can't be perfect!) and the other 95% are just dumb people...probably undergrads. But it is just disturbing when someone makes the claim that pepperdine would be #1 if it were not so conservative. Pepperdine is no different than Tennessee, or Richmond, or Buffalo or any of the other schools in that 50-100 range (well OK, I didn't realize Depaul had a law school, they are much worse) The only conservative school that matters is my alma-mater in Charlottesville. The rest are just associates with different churches. I think we need to cut this board off to top 50 students and alum only. Any seconds?

Hey 290/Tarbosh...
You are awfully stupid for being from a "Top 50."

I didn't go to Pepperdine for law school, but it's a good school. 289 was obviously being sarcastic. Hence, the line before the one you've "quoted."

Perhaps despite your academic intelligence, being from a "Top 50" and all, you are socially awkward and can't even detect humor and sarcasm.

TARBOSH FOR PRESIDENT!!!

I go to Pitt Law right now- we got an e-mail from the Dean about the faults of the ranking. We're not going to do the Cooley thing to rank ourselves, but step back for a second and ask how on earth Penn State could in any fashion be better than Pitt (or Cincy, for that matter). The public schools on the list are all the same, except we have the best place to live.