Open Thread: 2010 U.S. News Law School Rankings (77 - 100)
Even though U.S. News blithely skips from tier 1 to tier 3, we are definitely in the tier 2 part of the law school rankings. You’ll have to do some digging here to find the school that is the right fit for you.
Here is the next batch:
77. Chicago - Kent; Rutgers - Camden; Seattle; Seton Hall; University of Denver; University of New Mexico; Oregon; Richmond;
85. Santa Clara; SUNY - Buffalo
87. DePaul; Indiana - Indianapolis; Loyola - Chicago; Marquette; Rutgers - Newark; St. John’s; South Carolina
94. Catholic University; Northeastern; St. Louis; Arkansas - Fayetteville
98. University of Louisville; University of San Francisco
100. Gonzaga
Does anybody have any fun facts about these law schools?
More after the jump.
Looking at the list, one of the best things that can be said of these schools is that they are not tier 3. In normal times, graduates of these schools should be able to find jobs as full time attorneys in the region of their law school.
But how is that holding up during the recession? Share your stories of job success in the comments.
There are also law schools in this range that have shown significant movement in the rankings, which could be a good (or bad) sign for the future. SUNY - Buffalo (which New York State would love to pour money into, but for the market collapse eviscerating the state’s tax base) jumped 15 spots this year. The University of San Francisco jumped 14 spots. These schools might not stay in the second tier for long.
On the flip side, IUPUI (Indiana University - Purdue University at Indianapolis) law fell 19 spots. Any idea why?
Have at it in the comments.
Earlier: Open Thread: 2010 U.S. News Law School Rankings (50 - 75)
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Comments
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You enrolled in dese schools?
Yo ship sunk...
Boo
Number what? 2
Number what? 2
Catholic is taking a beating.
FINALLY!!!!! THANKS ATL!!!!!
Jewish too.
Indiana-Indianapolis has a great basketball team. Go Hoosiers!
gonzaga. spokane, wa. enough said.
Section 90 Promissory Estoppel
The ship be sinking
The dow is up/down
YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS
Pounding something in the ass.
3500 sq ft, wife, etc.
Nervous. T10.
Guys at my high school used to . . .
Asslobster.
Quinn remains.
Limerick/poem.
Dealbreaker ad blows. No it doesn't. Yes, it does.
PE (foot inserted in mouth after being in rear)
Anything > Latham
Your spelling/grammar sucks.
FAIL
Damn ... I know Hofstra is TTT but no mention of it coming in at 100??
Area Man's Lifelong Dream of Being an Attorney Not Worth Moving to Indiana
DePaul as a tier 2 school? Hardly. Mayor Daley went there and flunked the bar three times.
Dum de dum dum.
8 - UIPUI (pronounced ooey-pooey) has a pretty good basketball team in their own right. They don't need to ride the coattails of that other state school in Bloomington. Go Jaguars!
So, if the two Rutgers combined their assets and made one Rutgers School of Law (New Brunswick), would they crack top 50 ? top 40?
-- Jersey guy who went to a another state's state school
Seton Hall is very well thought of if you want to practice in NJ. They place well in clerkships, and are a feeder to the larger NJ firms. On the flip side, if you want to go to BigLaw, you're going to have to be on Law Review, know someone, or just be highly impressive, otherwise your SOL. The reason they dropped is because U.S News starting counting the part-time program, and they have a very large one. But, I'd say of the NJ programs it's on the rise, while Rutgers-Newark has been having a tough go of late.
I went to an admitted students event at Chicago Kent where I had occassion to meet the Dean. He asked me about my plans, and I candidly explained to him that after thinking about my options, I was pretty sure I was going to delay law school for a few years to get some life experience. He chortled and shot back, "Well, call if me if you come to your senses!"
Class act.
14 - you mean Indiana-Indianapolis != Indiana Hoosiers? Are you sure about this? I could have sworn they made big news recently moving up so many spots to break out of tier 3.
16 - seems like you know Jersey well. Please answer my question in 15.
you said 'chortled' ... hahahahaha. who says that?
St. John's can get you a job in NY if you're top 10%. But you better be prepared to fight arrogant, juicy couture wearing, Long Island kids whose mommy and daddys make their lunch, buy their dinner and refuel their cars.
with the exception of a few, seton hall is full of nothing but doucebags...
19: Yes, maybe top 50, but top 40 would be pushing it
USF 1L...i know, TTT
anyway, part of the reason i think USF jumped 14 spots was because of the addition of part-time programs in the rankings. Our Dean sent out an email saying our part-time program was rated rather high, and that probably had an influence on our ranking jumping up. There have also been a few faculty hirings which many believe were specifically to increase our ranking.
Are you kidding me? Hard to believe that there are one hundred schools below these bottom feeders. The legal industry is more bloated than Chrysler and GM, and continues to produce a product noone wants to buy.
USF 1L...i know, TTT
anyway, part of the reason i think USF jumped 14 spots was because of the addition of part-time programs in the rankings. Our Dean sent out an email saying our part-time program was rated rather high, and that probably had an influence on our ranking jumping up. There have also been a few faculty hirings which many believe were specifically to increase our ranking.
Glad to see USF back in the top 100. When I started there we were on par with Santa Clara. USF offered me a large scholarship, Santa Clara offered me none. Several years later, I still wish I had gone to Santa Clara. But USF is a great school, as long as you can ignore the complete lack of diversity in politics. I consider myself a little left of center and I was considered quite conservative there.
25 sounds like a frustrated Harvard grad doing contract work in a basement somewhere in NYC
looked up NY bar results for Feb. Lots of Wu's on the list:
WU, MARY
WU, EDWARD DIAN
WU, YI FANG
WU, JINGXIA
WU, XIN
Shoot, brah. If those aren't Tier 3, Elie doesn't shit in the woods while wearing a funny hat. Are there really schools below that tier?
WU HOO!
@24, 26 - Have a little pride before conceding USF is a TTT.
@27 - Understatement of the year re politics.
I still say Rutgers-Camden comes out on top among the NJ schools by virtue of staying static in the rankings this year while Seton Hall fell. That said, Seton Hall still has Paula Franzese, who can serve me penne alla vodka any day.
31 -- that's racist. And funny.
Come to think of it - lots of Wangs too but no Wang Chung
WANG, JING
WANG, QUANKAI
WANG, ZIHUI
WANG, NA
WANG, BI
WANG, TIFFANY VIVIAN
WANG, JEREMY H
35 - you must look under C for Wang Chung and T for Wu Tang
I don't disagree that Rutgers Camden may be the best NJ school, I've just heard from some students there that OCI is tough, sounds like a lot of the North Jersey and NYC firms don't want to make the trek down to Camden. Flip side is they have more access to Philly.
Fun Fact about Seton Hall,
If you enjoy paying tier 1 NYC prices to go to a school that belongs tier 4, this school is for you!
Some of the better attorneys that I know went to IU-Indy.
and you have to look under F for the Fuchs that passed.
What school is in a worse location Seton Hall (Newark NJ) or Columbia?
Curious Yale 2L
Denver and Oregon are solid schools that actually have students that you would want to work with, unlike the gunner d-bags of many higher ranked schools.
41: neither, yale (new haven)
Elie,
What are you talking about job prospects being lousy at these schools? Binder and Binder recruit like gangbusters from Seton Hall. In fact, it is rumored that the infamous cowboy hat he wears in his commercials were a gift from Dean Hobbs.
I know 41 is being sarcastic, but it's actually a good question, SHL is in the business section of Newark by the train station, which is basically all new/newer office buildings and the Devils hockey arena. Still somewhat dangerous at night, but aesthetically its not that bad. Columbia is in a little more frightening of an area to me, but it's a gorgeous campus. And by the way, go fuck yourself
In 1994, the firm hired an associate who had strong connections to the firm out of Seton Hall. She lasted 5 months and the firm has not hired anyone directly fresh out of Seton Hall since. We used to partake in OCI at Rutgers in Newark but we were highly disappointed in the caliber and quality of the folks that went there. We never interviewed at Camden since the students there would be too overwhelmed coming to NYC after surviving in a bomb shelter town like Camden for three years. These schools beg the question: do you really love parting away with money (or getting into massive debt) to live and dine in a garbage institution?
Oh my god, I didn't know catholic was that bad. This is the one in DC?
I swears to god I'm gonna bust this cracka's skull
47: Catholic is not that bad. Decent rep in DC and good Communications Law program. Students who do well at Catholic get good jobs. I think they used to be ranked better.
IF you want to practice law in Saint Louis, Missouri, please go to school at SLU. Do not go to WashU.
You can probably get a full ride and the firms in St. Louis love SLU more than WashU. They do not understand the difference between the schools. Do not waste 180k on the education across town.
@ 50 wrote "IF you want to practice law in Saint Louis, Missouri, please go to school at SLU. Do not go to WashU."
That is a pretty big IF.
Wasn't Catholic third tier a few years ago? I think they're doing better in the rankings than previously... no?
As much as it pains me to say it... Rutgers-Newark is a great school for your buck. Lots of kids get scholarships and you cannot beat the in-state tuition. If you are in the top 10% of the class w/ law review, OCI is a breeze and you are interviewing with the Vault Top 20 .
51. 50 here. Yes, it is a big IF--I agree.
But, believe it or not, some people do not want to move to a major market. I make 120k here starting, probably 600k to 1 million as a partner and live a very nice life.
Plus, you NYC hotshots need local counsel in your Madison County class actions, etc.
41: no one cares about your question, we're too busy disdaining you.
50: if you never want to even think about leaving STL, even for Chicago, then by all means, go to SLU.
Fun facts about Rutgers Camden,
They hold two big fund raisers:
1. Fall Cousin Kiss
2. Spring Jerky Off (students are judged on their homemade jerky)
Random hobos, crack heads, and UPenn State grads wander into the law library and ask the students to represent them in Camden County Court proceedings.
The law school is built upon a massive Indian grave. (Not a joke)
The location, Camden, is the murder capital of America and is below the Mason Dixon line. (Sadly not a joke)
While Indiana University School of Law--Indianapolis resides on IUPUI's campus, it is an IU school and therefore doesn't go by the name IUPUI School of Law: http://indylaw.indiana.edu/. The school just got a new dean, so I'm sure that's part of it. There is also night program there too that has lower mean GPA and LSAT scores than the day program. Not sure if those are the answers you are looking for or not.
52- No, but Richmond used to be.
46 -- just STFU and crawl under a rock.
Find a different avatar and have at it, but seriously, this one is done, and you are a tool.
isn't this a waste of time?
PE -
Mission accomplished. Apparently they misunderestimated you. Don't let them intimidate you. Tell them to "bring it on." As long as you keep telling everyone that it's all Obama's fault, even when they suicide themselves, I don't care that you can't spell or think Chicago's a state. Tell them when they stand up, you'll stand down.
Latham Truth # 8:
Latham heavily recruits from shit school like Rutgers.
10 / Schtick guy....
You forgot that I rick roll people on a daily basis.
For the record, though we are on the campus of IUPUI, we are the Indiana University School of Law at Indianapolis.
And we students have no idea why we dropped 19 spots, but we aren't happy about it, haha. It's especially odd considering our 1L class this year has our highest LSAT and GPA that we've had. Who knows.
The big firms here are cutting pay, giving deferments, and rescinding offers just like everyone else.
At least SUNY Buffalo is a baragain at $14,000 a year for in state tuition.
You may also get a pussy pass into Biglaw in New York City like a recent grad did.....
Kenttt TANKED!
Kent is a strange place b/c it funds IIT which really needs the money.
Has a Dean named Harry Krentt.
Come to your senses and DON'T go here. Tier Three Toilet all the way!
Rankings beyond 1-14 are meaningless. You just have to do well.
Santa Clara should be in the top 50. One of the top IP schools in the country and tons of alum are killling it in Silicon Valley BigLaw and SF BigLaw and government. Not to mention that salaries coming out of SCU are on the high end. They need to get their act together and start moving up in the rankings. last time we were 77. No excuse that we're dropping.
Summon a bottle of mid-Eighties Drappier for me.
A second-tier champagne for some second tier schools.
-Pop Bottles
Elie is an idiot who couldn't cut it at Debevoise.
56- Rutgers Camden is not below the mason dixon line. Camden is directly across the river from Philly and the mason dixon line runs between PA and MD.
41:
You must have visited Columbia years ago, when Morningside Heights was a bit scary. Now, it's all hip restaurants and bars, with condos going for over $1 million. Newark is Newark. Easy answer.
41:
You must have visited Columbia years ago, when Morningside Heights was a bit scary. Now, it's all hip restaurants and bars, with condos going for over $1 million. Newark is Newark. Easy answer.
68,
There is no big law in SF. No one is impressed with the 9th best school in California.
Oregon has a beautiful school (thanks Phil Night) and a beautiful campus in a beautiful part of the country. There are some great faculty members, and the student body (including the dirtiest of hippies) is, for the most part, rather intelligent, very friendly and cordial.
Unfortunately, the nearest decent sized city, Portland, is two hours away. Furthermore, Lewis and Clark and Willamette are both closer to Portland, making summer associate positions more difficult to get at firms that want their clerks to stay on year round.
Add to that the career services unhealthy obsession with public interest work/environmental law, and you end up with a bunch of JDs at the top of the class accepting jobs making $50k a year.
As an alum, it is frustrating to see the direction Oregon seem to be heading - falling in the rankings every year. But overall I am happy with the education I got at Oregon and am happy with my mid-sized firm which easily pays my government loan payments (no private loans to repay).
72: Fair enough, it has been a while since I've been there, and Newark does suck, but it has gotten a lot better just over the last 3 years.
DePaul needs to get it's own building for the law school. Having to share with the undergrads got old real quick. Overall it was ok - but I should have gone somewhere else and said fuck it to the scholarship.
74 = racist. Please moderate.
i mean, yeah cracka...well one day into Professor T and I blew it, he will be missed...not really
Catholic tends to get crapped on in the rankings, which is a shame considering it's a quality school. The graduates there generally land government jobs. Half the Patent and Trademark Office are Catholic grads. It's hard to compete, though, when you're stuck in a town like DC with Georgetown, GW, and Maryland.
I'm too cheap to pay for the U.S. news premium report, but I'm willing to bet that the lack of alumni relations work drags Catholic down.
Santa Clara should be higher. Obama just tapped an SCU alum for head of CIA (Leon Panetta) and head of Homeland Security (Janet Napolitano). Also the first Latino Secy of Transportation went there.
Perhaps the drop of IU-Indianapolis has to do with IU-Bloomington Law officially changing its name to Mauer. With the new distinct name there is less confusion between the now #23 IU Bloomington, and the school on the IUPUI campus.
47: 49 is right. Catholic has a good rep. The large law firms all recruit. In my interviews I was pleasantly surprised by how frequently the attorneys mentioned how much they liked Catholic grads. It's mostly known for its Communications & Securities programs. Dechert - the big financial/securities law firm - actively recruits from Catholic because the school offers classes in each the '33 Act, the '34 Act, and the '40 Act. The school (supposedly) tends to get docked in ratings because students receive credit (well, 1 credit) for the required "Catholic Social Thought" class.
DePaul and Kent are the same as John Marshall. If you go to these schools, say hello to insurance defense.
IU-Indy 1L here. We compete with Bloomington (excuse, me Maurer) for firm jobs in Indianapolis since we have so many alums here. But, as for the drop in rankings - I think it largely has to do with the fact that the school was caught with a sub-par evening division.
I know for a fact they "shrunk" the day full-time division to make it look more elite, only to place more students in part-time day and part-time evening. Not sure if the swing in rankings from 60-something to 80-something will matter much for us though.
QUINN REMAINS
Mid 90's Rutgers Camden grad here. Tuition was around $10k in state from what I recall. Can't image paying $33k for out of state or even 23k in state.
Rutgers was a decent enough school, close to Philly, where anyone looking for a life will live during law school. Had interviews with big Philly firms on campus due to high GPA but didn't get any offers.
On the plus, I am almost done paying off my 30k in loans at 2.3% (hard to justify paying them off at that rate) and cleared $220k last year at a small lifestyle firm on the left coast. Not much by biglaw standards but it pays the bills.
wha happened to richmond? wasnt it in the 60s last year?
84, so how is the insurance defense parctice these days?
I think I might actually rather ROCK IT at Catholic than be a MIDDLING student at AU WCL BREADLINE LAW.
Are these really law schools?
What school would Elie have gone to if he were white?
What school would Elie have gone to if he were white?
What school would Elie have gone to if he were white?
What school would Elie have gone to if he were white?
What school would Elie have gone to if he were white?
90, that's assuming you "ROCK IT" - ASSUMING!
What school would Elie have gone to if he were white?
90, that's assuming you "ROCK IT" - ASSUMING!
91, are you really a lawyer?
Ask her how she got a pussy passy into Biglaw from Suny Buffalo.
Ok, so i am a woman that goes to one of the schools mentioned in the first U.S. News post (T5), but i can't find a single guy here that can give me some good cock. i am attractive (USC undergrad). any real mean in this thread that can really service me?
102 - sry, *men* was getting to excited by the mere thought of a casual encounter...
these schools put out pretty decent lawyers....they just drop in rankings because they dont scam the rankings like other schools that hire their own grads to keep their employment numbers up. Just do a search on a lot of the biglaw firms out there and you will find grads from these schools. The COO of Cooley is a Santa Clara grad.....here are more alums from these schools.
http://www.cooley.com/attorneys/attorneys.aspx?__VIEWSTATE=dDwxMDYzODg2NzgxOzs%2BjGCgYjABohfGD7f8sqjIgRslhG0%3D&Search=1&FName=&LName=&cboPractices=&cboOffices=&cboLanguages=&cboSchool=000035514003&btnSubmit=Search
http://www.jonesday.com/lawyers/lawyers_results.aspx?Schools=5974c400-ffc9-4cdc-b612-711231eb2c04&english=yes
http://www.kirkland.com/sitecontent.cfm?contentID=219&formProfType=1&formKeyword=Enter+a+Keyword&formLastname=Enter+a+Last+Name&formFirstname=Enter+a+First+Name&formAttorneylevel=0&formLegalservice=0&formOffice=0&formLanguage=0&formBar=&formLawSchool=5118&Search.x=42&Search.y=11&Search=Search
etc...........
Who cares?
HofsTTTra is so ghetto - total waste of $200k and three years of my life.
why do you list Gonzaga, but not Hofstra or Maine, which all tied at 100?
106 - Shut the fuck up. Remember, you also go school for intellectual enrichment, not just for the almighty buck. I very much enjoy my time at Hostra and look forward to graduating next year.
Hofstra 2L
106 - Shut the fuck up. Remember, you also go school for intellectual enrichment, not just for the almighty buck. I very much enjoy my time at Hostra and look forward to graduating next year.
Hofstra 2L
@108 - who's paying for your Hofstttra degree? parents? If not, I betcha feel differently in 2years.
110 - 108 here.
Yes, I happen to have worked before law school, so I'm only taking out federal loans. So what?! That doesn't change a thing about my experience there. Hofstra is a quality school and I have learned a lot. And stop calling it a TTT, motherfuckers!!!!!
you know, I like going to Buffalo and having no debt. I couldn't do a gov't/public interest job if I had paid 40G a year for some of the better ranked schools I got into. Not everyone wants to be stuck in a firm job. Also, the idea that I don't have sell my soul for a student loan payment after graduation is a huge relief.
- Happy UB 1L
84: "DePaul and Kent are the same as John Marshall. If you go to these schools, say hello to insurance defense."
Hello, Loyola Student. Your school isn't included because...???
Dudes, all these schools in this 75-100 group suck ass, and HofsTTTra is at the very end of that lisTTT.
there is no difference between any of these schools and any school that is not harvard, yale or stanford and even then there is no difference in the legal education, just in the brand name recognition
For all of you who went to these TTT schools, I hear Initech's legal department is hiring.
Hey Partner Emeritus, didn't you go to T99-T100 school?
102 - I would love to give you some cock. Any chance you go to Columbia or NYU? If so post here a time and place to meet after finals.
-CLS 2L Stud
TTTop 10 schools = lsaTTT scores
Richmond is the worst value in the Mid-Atlantic. Expensive as hell, horrible Richmond legal market (goodbye LandAmerica, Circuit City, cigarette industry), only the 4th best school in a mid-size state with all of the DC schools to compete with as well. Waste.
I heard a lot of clinics at these TTT schools have been revamped and now teach their students how to flip burgers in order to better prepare them for life after graduation.
TTT based on what?
90 -
To be honest, I think you'd be better off at American than Catholic if you got in at both schools. Catholic has nicer facilities, but it does have a reputation for being an easier school. You won't be able to get a government job from Catholic that you couldn't get from American.
HEY HOW COME HOFSTRA IS NOT LISTED HERE? ELIE, YOU NEED TO F****ING WAKED UP AND PUT UP A COMPLETE LIST.
Someone should cancel Jimmy Fallon's show and put him out of his misery.
Cutting-edge education
Ranked among the top schools nationwide, Hofstra Law is an intellectually stimulating environment.
http://law.hofstra.edu/JDAdmissions/index.html
Driven students
As a Hofstra Law student, you’ll be surrounded by sophisticated classmates who make up one of the most diverse law schools. Our student body hails from 35 countries, 45 states and 150 colleges.
http://law.hofstra.edu/JDAdmissions/index.html
Driven students
As a Hofstra Law student, you’ll be surrounded by sophisticated classmates who make up one of the most diverse law schools. Our student body hails from 35 countries, 45 states and 150 colleges.
http://law.hofstra.edu/JDAdmissions/index.html
The rankings should include the option: "Not attend law school." Such an option would probably rank above most of these schools.
"Hofstra is a special place to study law. Our classes are vibrant, our faculty consist of outstanding scholars who teach with energy and enthusiasm, and our students learn and work in a cooperative environment. We are a law school full of opportunity and excitement."
http://law.hofstra.edu/About/about_message_from_the_dean.html
121= disgruntled Yale student near the bottom of his class who feels better about himself by dropping "TTT" into a post on a crappy law-gossip website
83, 90: Catholic sucks.
anyone who wastes three years in one of these shitholes is a fool!!! anyone who pays to waste three years is a double fool!!!
Makes no sense that Rutgers-Newark has slipped from 48 to 88 in less than ten years. These rankings are a joke.
Makes no sense that Rutgers-Newark has slipped from 48 to 87 in less than ten years. These rankings are a joke.
133,
anyone who uses three exclamation points is a fool. Anyone who uses them twice in the same post is a double fool.
You're all fuc*ing retards for thinking that anyone gives a loving shit about these lists after you graduate.
GET
A
LIFE.
Hasn't it been shown that these schools put people in decent jobs? Why the hate? Why the disregard of facTTTs?
Rutgers-Newark places twice as many students in Biglaw as Seton Hall for half the price.
Hasn't it been shown that these schools put people in decent jobs? Why the hate? Why the disregard of facTTTs?
is it 48 or 47? get your facts straight. i don't disagree that that's quite a fall and i have no doubt things have changed much in that time.
I want to lick some fat TTTits
104-did you actually bother to read the profiles of those attorneys before you posted the links? If you did, you would notice that an absurdly high percentage of them have PhDs and are IP lawyers. Of those who are not IP lawyers, almost all of them graduated magna or Order of the COIF and were on law review. Not exactly a representative cross-section of these schools' graduating classes.
87 - Well played.
There's a chick from Catholic starting at S&C. Pretty hot
The problem with Seton Hall, besides producing horrible attorneys, is that it is full of students who went to Georgetown for undergrad and think they are something special.
Someone needs to inform these kids of some simple truths:
1. Georgetown, as a unvierstiy, sucks
2. If you couldn't get into GULC you really suck.
3. If you went to G'town undergrad, couldn't get into GULC, go to law school at SeTTTon Hall and think you are a big deal because you went to Georgetown undergrad you are deranged and a moron because you spent a ton of money on not one, but TWO degrees that are worthless.
Top 10% or IP people at most of these schools are just fine. They are probably kids who got scholarships, anyway, so it wasn't as expensive. Everyone else, scrambling for crappy jobs.
139: Bullshit. There are far more Seton Hall grads in big law than RuTTTgers grads, and Seton Hall is not that much more expensive given the amount of scholarship $$ they give out.
146= angry former Seton Hall student who transferred to Widener because he couldn't handle the pressure.
148:
Seriously bro, if you are defending Seton Hall by referring to Rutgers as TTT you probably go there;therefore, you are TTT. Pot meet kettle.
West Coast T-10errrrrrr
146=future suicide
150,
very well played, but adding that you are a West Coast T-10errrrr was a little gay.
Rutgers-Newark was a very good deal both for the quality of the professors/education and the price, imo. The ranking is so low in large part because they let applicants select being evaluated on non-traditional criteria (ie, a poor lsat and weak undergrad gpa does not automatically keep you out)--the school believes it is important to have attorneys from a variety of backgrounds, and the result is that it gets hammered in the rankings. But the student body is really very talented--I know lots of people (myself included) who landed great gigs in NYC firms.
There are plenty of reasons for 'prestigious' and 'top ranked' law schools to protect their reputations, but the top students (who knows, maybe top 10-20%) at virtually any decent law school are going to do well at any law school. Anyway, good luck to firms that limit their gene pool to only five or six law schools (...that means you, Dewey Ballantine...oh, wait, sorry you blew up). Successful (ie, long-lived, wealthy, and respected) lawyers come from all sorts of law schools--for recruiting purposes, the odds probably are better of getting in general a talented crop by just cherry-picking from a few schools, but if you simply refuse even to consider a student because of his/her law school, that's so short-sighted and selfish (from the perspective of trying to sustain/build a firm) as to practically telegraph the firm's demise.
My question is how are there SO MANY NYLS kids at v10 firms?? 5 in a summer class of 100 at a v3 this year. Who makes those decisions, the school isn't even ranked??
143 - most of the people that go to these schools go because they want to specialize in something like IP. Firms in places like the Bay Area open offices only to focus on things like venture capital, technology law, or IP and these schools put out lawyers to fit that mold. Plus, most biglaw firms cut off at top 20% anyways so, you're gonna be order of the quief or cum laude to get a job at firms like that anyways unless you have some special set of skills that the firm wants....no matter where you're from you have to put up or shut up if you want to get retained. Nobody at a biglaw firm cares if you're a scrub from cornell, berkeley.....its not like they're gonna hire you because they owe something to those schools.
So, just to be sure... we're done talking about suicidal laid of associates? 'Cause, I'm feeling like a suicidal
TTTTT future graduate.
- CUNY Law School 3L
P.S. At least I don't have any debt. I'll be working in the public defender's office, but I don't have any debt. Maybe I'll keep that bullet chambered instead of putting it in my head.
I go to Santa Clara. Great school, but thanks above the law for opening it up to ridicule from the elitist asshats on this site.
Let the TTT's begin!
146,
And the problem with Scotland is that it is full of Scots!!!
By this point in the rankings it's like arguing about who has the best seat on the Titanic.............
what is a TTT anyways?
I'm trying to decide between schools in this bracket of the US News rankings. So far I have come up with the visual comparison in the link below. Can anyone help me decide?
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/688/salvageyardsfindlids.jpg
"[G]raduates of these schools should be able to find jobs as full time attorneys in the region of their law school."
Q: So, when the region is New York (e.g., Seton Hall, St. John's, etc.), what's the only difference between this "subpar" schools and the "superior" schools like Columbia and NYU?
A: $120,000 in debt.
-Associate at V20 firm from SJU
I was a top 5% grad at Louisville in the past 3 years. About 10 kids had market paying jobs in Louisville - but no one could move outside the city (surprise surprise).
Complete TTT in all aspects - profs, facilities, student life. Wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they were on full/nearly full scholarship and they were confident they could do top 10%.
But if you can do well, you can live pretty well - and not worry about loans if you lose a job sometime down the road.
162,
Seton Hall's region is Newark/Ho-Ho-Kus/ Dover not NYC.
last night, i nailed a suny buffalo 2L in the ass. about what you'd expecTTT.
If you know where you want to practice, its probably better to go to one of these schools, in that market, and get top 10% vs going to a school ranked, say 15-50, and finishing middle of the pack.
164: Thats funny, considering that basically the entire law review and a solid group outside of law review are going to BigLaw NYC firms, but why let the facts get in the way of TTT bashing fun!
lets face it the only reason that most people have hard a hard time finding a job out of anywhere that is not harvard or yale is because they dont have anything to offer a firm. The average law student has come out of their undergraduate poly sci degree and the only skills they have in life are taking beer bong hits while being held upside down. Obviously the market will be saturated because there are too many people applying for law firm jobs that are all equally unqualified to be there and a firm might as well take someone from harvard to justify paying them 150k a year. Anyone that has anything to offer a firm can go anywhere and still do well.
Elie:
Well SUNY Buffalo may have jumped 15 spots as you state.
But remember, they dropped 23 spots this time last year.
So let's keep things in perspective.
lets face it the only reason that most people have hard a hard time finding a job out of anywhere that is not harvard or yale is because they dont have anything to offer a firm. The average law student has come out of their undergraduate poly sci degree and the only skills they have in life are taking beer bong hits while being held upside down. Obviously the market will be saturated because there are too many people applying for law firm jobs that are all equally unqualified to be there and a firm might as well take someone from harvard to justify paying them 150k a year. Anyone that has anything to offer a firm can go anywhere and still do well.
How do I get this "pussy" thing that helps SUNY Buffalo law grads get a biglaw gig in NYC?
Nervous Buffalo 1L
You people are hilarious. Just hours ago you were talking about how this profession is so fucked up that it brings people to the point of killing themselves. Well guess what? The asshole partners conducting the heartless stealth layoffs were once elitist assholes like yourselves. You all deserve each other. Enjoy that smoking cock in your mouth right before you pull the trigger.
172 - HAHAHA SO TRUE!!!
If that fat black piece of shit Elie were white, I can guarantee he would've been "forced" to attend CUNY Law School. And for those of you too slow to know what I mean by "forced", I mean if Elie were white he would have been judged on his own merit (i.e. 143 on the LSAT).
50,55:
St. Louis U is definitely the best place if you want to stay in St. Louis (believe it or not some people don't want to go to NYC).
But, if you want to leave STL, you're screwed unless you're in the (#1 ranked) health law program
104, you can get a job at a good firm from these schools. But you probably need to be a superstar. At Kirkland, for example, all of those Loyola grads were magna cum laude and most were editors of Law Review. It's not clear exactly what their GPAs were, but magna at most schools is 3.7. So, it's probably that at the least.
SUNY Buffalo is great if you wanted to be drafting wills on the Transit Road in 40 below weather for $37,000 a year when you graduate.
When a city only has 2 types of commercials on TV: 1) Personal injury 2) Fucillo Chevrolet.....you know the city is fucked.
Lat, Elie, Kash...
You three are very impressive. The three of you alone have been able to rally together the very worst this profession has to offer. Snobs, elitists, cowards hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. You clowns day in and day out visit this blog to deride and humiliate anyone you deem inferior, but suddenly become bleeding hearts when one of your ilk can't handle the thought of being without her precious BigLaw job and blows her self-entitled brains out.
If you are at any of these schools, you should be working your ass off so you can transfer to a school in the top 25.
Santa Clara is terribly underrated. It should be a top 30 school, along the lines of Fordham.
Santa Clara is terribly underrated. It should be a top 30 school, along the lines of Fordham.
CUP O' BALLS!!!
Elie,
Is it time to make the doughnuts? You obese worthless piece of shit.
Buffalo is $15k in state now (and residency is quite easy in NY--just live there a year). I say go big or go cheap. Buffalo is pretty affordable for anyone, and therefore *should* be considered by anyone who didn't get a full ride at a top 15 school, especially if you want to roll the dice in this economy. They place people pretty well by their stats, including clerkships, and have a strong alumni network. The nearest other law school is Syracuse, which is grossly overpriced for what you get.
I heard a rumor (from a decent source, but I'm anonymous, so take with salt) is Buffalo won't offer you a scholarship unless you are a minority. But 15k tuition is very doable, and the cost of living in Buffalo is quite cheap by city standards. And they have the best wings on earth.
re Catholic - if you are in the top 15% and on law review, you have a very good shot at the top firms in DC. Outside of DC, it's pretty hard.
MarqueTTTe is really 4th tier school. Despite being 90 miles from Chicago, almost no Chicago firms interview there. After the top 5-10 people, quality plummets.
161 - i see what you did there. lol
What's so great about law review. All it was was hours and hours of bluebooking. If you have nothing else to put on your resume it is OKAY but really, what has being part of the law review really meant in life???
What's so great about law review. All it was was hours and hours of bluebooking. If you have nothing else to put on your resume it is OKAY but really, what has being part of the law review really meant in life? When I look at resumes anyone boasting about law review gets an automatic toss in the garbage
161 - the tilted brown one in the front row is MarqueTTTe.
166-dead on smart advice.
ELI........you're a filthy little jew
So, are we done being compassionate and all sympathetic and shit? It seems like we can all go back to being the assholes that were born to be in BigLaw. Damn, it didn't take long for you all to stop the self-examination and critique of the legal profession. That STB associate that sucked on that pistol is barely cold and yo all have gone back to being the elitist assholes you've never stopped being.
SUNY Buffalo (UB) is in some serious trouble if NYS goes through with its plan to open additional law schools at Stony Brook and Binghamton... It may just be a rumor, but it would really screw UB over unless its gets its shit together.
193, I don't see how people here are being assholes. Most aren't saying that firms SHOULD be grade and school snobs to the degree that they are. We're just acknowleging the reality.
Look, if you want Biglaw out of SUNY Buffalo you need a #1 rated pussy. Then it doesn't matter of you have Cs on your transcript and no law review. You will get Biglaw in NYC....
193, some of you are. The majority, however, are keeping up with their usual TTT nonsense and "BigLaw this and BigLaw that" bullshit.
What is the difference you ask? LSAT measures your intellectual ability. Clients want smart people working for them. Smart people DO NOT include anyone, even those graduating at the top of their class, from schools ranked outside, say, T35. And there is a large difference at that, between the T3, T6, T14 and the rest. Big Law is charitable, and will give some of you unintelligent and incompetent people a job in the name of diversity. Especially if you are an attractive female. Otherwise, leave the smart stuff to the smart people. We will solve the world's problems; just be satisfied living in the society we shape.
Buffalo is the most depressing place on earth.......it's a hell hole that all the locals think is the greatest city on the world...
Ellie:
How come you never did a story on the SUNY Buffalo law student that banged assemblyman Sam Hoyt and got in a fight with his wife. There are even really salacious emails between the two from the Assembly ethics probe. You could have made her home wrecker of the month or something.
I go to Santa Clara and I love it here. Also, as one of the top IP law schools, we play a huge role in the Silicon Valley. I have met a lot of alums that are at the top SV and non-SV firms.
188/189, there's absolutely nothing great about law review. That's why I didn't do it. Didn't even try. I was burnt out after 1L finals and simply didn't want to write on. At Michigan, you couldn't grade on. Instead I did the bullshit journal of Michigan Telecommunications and Technology which required essentially no effort and process to get on.
That said, it's definitely something firms like to see. I was certainly asked why I didn't do it in various interviews. I came up with some bullshit that sounded pretty good.
And if you toss resumes with law review, you're definitely in the minority. And it's very doubtful that your recruiting committee and hiring partner feels the same way. I'm now on the recruiting committee at my V10, and law review is something that people reallly like to see. It's even more of a plus at my wife's firm. There is actually a rubric/pre-set form when evaluating interviewees and law review is a box attorneys must check.
Look, it's quite simple actually. The more blacks and hispanics enrolled at any law school, the lower the school will be in the US News rankings. This is simply because US News' rankings uses LSAT score and undergrad GPAs as primary metrics of a school's quality. These are just the facts. Nothing personal. Although to be honest, 2 Negroes and 2 quarters don't even equal a dollar.
Stop EVERYTHING!!! Can someone get an email in to Hofstra to either shutdown or completely revamp that shitty website. I threw up in my mouth a little when I saw that crap.
It makes zero sense that this TTT blog isn't covering the White & Case story. Much more interesting that the typical bullshit covered here.
203, while socioeconomic factors may account for lower black and hispanics GPA and LSAT, your comments reveal that you underperform on a far more important metric--the content of your character.
"It makes zero sense that this TTT blog isn't covering the White & Case story. Much more interesting that the typical bullshit covered here."
Look, the White & Case story is a story that potential makes Democrats look bad, and if you want a story on the law that potentially makes Democrats look bad, you have to go to "Dealbreaker" not here.
God, this is so simple.
i went to rutgers-camden. Landed a federal clerkship. Have PLENTY OF FREE TIME to bag depressed UPenn law students while their ex-boyfriends pull all nighters. Ran the broad street 10 mile run in under 60 minutes because i have free time to do what i want to do. Will be replacing a sad T-10 biglaw associate shortly, if I feel like it. Graduated with under 50K debt. Still have a soul. Yes, went to school in Camden...but didn't have to spend one night there, or one minute in New Haven for that matter. Don't feel the need to check my spelling or grammar on a website because i'm not sad enough to give a shit. PE's wife hit on me at the golf course but blew her off because she's old and her tits sag.
208 = AA
no law school is worth it
64 - My understanding is that IUPUI Law calls themselves IU-Indianapolis, much like the Kellogg School of Management, Wharton or like Boalt Hall before they changed the name.
That's why IUPUI lists their law school under the academics portion of their web page - see e.g. http://www.iupui.edu/academic/.
OMG!!!! CLS 2L Stud!!! You guessed my location. I was hoping you would respond, been wanting to check out that massive one of yours. If you are the true CLS 2L Stud, in fact, we have a connect. I got (really) lucky with a friend of yours down here, but he is too hot for me and I knew it wouldn't last. Maybe both of you could get together with me???
212 = CLS 2L Stud
How did that TTT SUNY slut get a job in Biglaw.?
These boards are elitist. Do you guys really think there's no life outside biglaw? The truth is, being a successful lawyer is about finding a niche and making your own way through creativity and hard work. A Biglaw lateral who was wildly successful at a small/mid firm will make partner. You T14 snobs and the bookworms on top of the class elsewhere will get recruited at 2L OCI, paid pennies on the dollar for what the firm is billing your clients, and kicked out the door in year 5-7 of writing memos and doing research for 100 hours a week. At that point, you'll still have no clue how to be a real lawyer. This layoff madness was just an acceleration of that process. The fact that partners would rather cut associates than eat a 3% lower paycheck says a lot about what they think you guys are worth.
I'll take a boutique insurance defense gig out of my crappy little law school, thank you.
if i were at these schools and wanted biglaw i would drop out if i wasn't in the top 1-2%. then again a lot of these students don't expect biglaw. the real idiots are the ones who go to these schools thinking they can finish in the top of their class and get biglaw. hell, i go to a TOP NINE school and look how nervous i am.
-nervous T-10 1L
soon to be nervous 1L sa
215 - That's a lot of words to say "I didn't want that six figure job anyway."
Half the judges in Virginia went to Richmond. It gets a lot of respect in-state. Also has representation at every major firm in any city in VA, including Northern VA.
Half the judges in Virginia went to Richmond. It gets a lot of respect in-state. Also has representation at every major firm in any city in VA, including Northern VA.
206 - calling 203 a racist makes you ignorant.
How can you libs squawk about how the LSAT is racist, then squawk when someone observes that schools trying to increase minority enrollment will have a lower average LSAT.
If the LSAT is racist, then minorities score lower on average. That means that even an attempt to represent minorities proportionally from application to admissions will lower a school's mean LSAT score. Given that many of these schools strive to overrepresent minorities, that means the ones that are left 100 schools down the list are even lower, man for man, than the white peoples' applications on the same admissions desk (the smarter minorities already got admitted to better schools). Sum all this, and what have you got? At this point in the list, it is statistical fact that admitting more minorities means lowering the average LSAT score.
I understand you may not get that. You're probably the keg-suckling poli-sci student that 170 was talking about. They may not have taught you any statistics along the way.
Leiter: Law School Rankings Based on Job Placement - Hiring By Very Selective Firms
See 17
1. Harvard University
2. Columbia University
3. New York University
4. Fordham University
5. Yale University
6. University of Pennsylvania
7. Georgetown University
7. University of Chicago
9. University of Texas, Austin
10. University of Virginia
11. Boston University
11. Cornell University
13. Brooklyn Law School
14. University of California, Berkeley
15. Northwestern University
15. University of Michigan
17. Duke University
17. Rutgers University, Newark
19. Cardozo Law School
19. Stanford University
19. Univ. of California, Los Angeles
22. Emory University
22. George Washington University
22. Seton Hall University
22. University of Iowa
22. University of Notre Dame
For the record, I hate having to do this:
but what would a law school rankings thread be,
without some discussion of Emory?
Rutgers-N is consistently ranked in every category for a school that is supposedly ranked so low by US News:
http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/1999faculty_reputation.shtml
#218 is a notorious fellatrice. Please moderate.
194, those schools would only make Buffalo look better by comparison. It's just a rumor, like the rumor of one at University of Rochester. I seriously doubt it will happen *anytime* soon. And Binghamton won't want to compete with Syracuse 1 hr north or the NYC slew of schools just 3 hours away. Unless we have another Rockefeller style Governor dump tons of money into the system (ha), SUNY is only going to get trimmed, not bolstered.
Latham Joke of the Day:
What do you get when you cross Latham with a douchebag.
Just more Latham.
Santa Clara is good if you want to practice intellectual property law or international law. Otherwise, it's very much a local school, well known and respected in Silicon Valley and unknown elsewhere. But BigLaw Tech law has quite a few SCU grads.
Chicago still turns out good tax lawyers. But who the hell wants to be a tax lawyer.
198:
The LSAT measures how well you do those stupid logic games which have nothing whatsoever to do with anything lawyers actually do.
Richmond grad at v20, no debt, what's up bitches?
University of Richmond = clown school. If it wasn't for Regent it would be the worst school in the jurisdiction.
230 - Wrong, Regent, Appalachian and Liberty are all worse. As was your law school.
Yeah 230, keep telling yourself that.
USF has a surprisingly high bar passage rate - #6 in the state (for the July '08 exam). It came in between Pepperdine and Loyola, and beat out schools such as Santa Clara, Hastings, and Davis.
SUNY Buffalo has sent/ is sending students to the following Biglaw firms in the last three years:
1) Sullivan & Cromwell.
2) Skadden.
3) Jones Day.
4) White & Case.
5) Nixon Peabody.
6) Shearman and Sterling.
7) Ropes & Gray.
8) Weil Gotshal.
9) Schulte Roth & Zabel.
10) DLA Piper.
11) Dewey.
12) Willkie Farr and Gallagher.
13) Chadbourne and Park.
14) Cadwalader.
15) Fried Frank.
Buffalo also places its students in all the top regional firms in New York State. Not bad for $36,000.
198,
How young and stupid are you? The LSAT does not reflect whether a person will be a good lawyer. It reflects whether a person can figure out, in 30 seconds, whether Bob can sit next to Suzie if Tom sits between Patty and Carl. Who gives a shit? Real lawyers apply cases and statutes to their client's factual situations to solve real problems. And guess what? The answers are not multiple choice.
Now go stick your head back up your ass where it belongs.
198- Nice try, d-bag. It is people like you who end up offing yourself after you realize that all the elitist gunning your whole life ends up costing you your soul. You don't "shape" my world, in fact I was having fun "shaping" the inside of the girl you could never get last night. You can take that elitist BS and shove it. Gunners love talking about other gunners, and you all love living miserable lives. LSAT means nothing. he best litigators on the planet didn't go to Harvard. Oh, and PS. Leon Panetta is the one "shaping" your world as we speak (head of CIA) and he graduated from Santa Clara, one of the most underrated schools on the list. Obama obviously doesn't just look at the top 35 schools. nice try though, d-bag.
221 - your list seems to have an east coast bias...
going to one of these schools (with scholarship) vs. a top 50 --- go to the "better" school and get good grades, your transfer will be so much easier.
If you care so much about a number aren't you planning on transferring anyway?
When I die, I want the USNWR ranking of my school on my tombstone!
234--Buffalo did increase from $12k to $15k+.
It's still quite affordable but that's $10k in loans, which is $30k in payments.
The top 5% at Buffalo are and probably always will be placed liberally at Vault 50 firms in NYC -- with several offers to spare.
Another 10-15% generally prefers to work regionally at the higher-paying firms of Western New York despite offers from NYC BigLaw or state/federal gov.
Tuition is a modest ~$12K/yr.
Note also that the top 20% of students are unlikely to pay full sticker price (though full-rides were scarce).
Anecdotally, none of the NYC-placed grads of the past several (~5) years have been laid-off.
Also of interest: the 1L class is a major feeder to transfer-friendly USNWR T10 schools.
It doesn't take a genius to do the analysis here, people: Buffalo is a great place for bargain-minded students confident in their ability to out-perform 80% of their classmates.
lot of buffalo trolls. truth is all the ny/nj schools are all overranked b/c biglaw nyc has been picking them up to do shitloads of due diligence. guess that gravy train is over.
239,
I will add to that the mid-siz eregional firms (Hodgson Russ, Phillips Lytle, Damon & Morey) in Buffalo take a lot of UB grads and pay well. You can live like a King in Buffalo for $90,000 a year. Only problem is most people can't handle the Weather.
SUNY Buffalo has sent/ is sending students to the following Biglaw firms in the last three years:
1) Sullivan & Cromwell.
2) Skadden.
3) Jones Day.
4) White & Case.
5) Nixon Peabody.
6) Shearman and Sterling.
7) Ropes & Gray.
8) Weil Gotshal.
9) Schulte Roth & Zabel.
10) DLA Piper.
11) Dewey.
12) Willkie Farr and Gallagher.
13) Chadbourne and Park.
14) Cadwalader.
15) Fried Frank.
Buffalo also places its students in all the top regional firms in New York State. Not bad for $36,000.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Er...yes.....but exactly how many out of the thousands that graduate from SUNY get jobs in Biglaw? About 1%......
yeah Nixon Peabody in Buffalo......
Catholic: underrated feeder for federal government. I'd rank it as similar in quality to American/George Mason/Maryland.
Seton Hall: Perhaps the shittiest law school in America. The inside of this place looks like a prison riot waiting to happen. http://www.njfilm.org/Locations/photos/ess-seton.jpg
Rutgers-Newark: Why the hell wouldn't you go to this state school over Seton Hall when they're literally blocks apart and just a few ranks off each other?
Northeastern: Now that the socialists of the Obama administration have taken over, the hippies here might actually be able to get jobs again...if deferred associates weren't taking all of them for free.
SUNY Buffalo, we welcome ou at LATHAM.
-Latham Hiring Committee
What are my chances at NY Big Law if I attend the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. I've got to get out of Arkansas!
~ Nervous Razorback 1L
For all you Latham haters, I was fired from another biglaw shop in the recent past. I am a first year and I did not get anything close to 6 months severance. I wish I used to work at Latham. Sure, they fired a ton of ppl b/c they didn't have work for them, but they gave an ultra-impressive severance package that no other law firm has even come close to matching, which they didn't need to give.
Northeastern is a wonderful law school, especially if you're interested in public-interest law and social issues. It's small and not especially well-endowed, but the faculty is first-rate and the co-op program is very, very good for training lawyers.
241, don't forget Cellino & Barnes! (Or The Barnes Firm, as it was briefly known while Cellino was under suspension for lending money to a client...)
198...i will dance intellectual circles around you...the smartest people in the room got us into the economic mess we are in now...FUCK YOU
245,
Your chances are 0% at biglaw, 3% at private practice, 8% at Public Service, and 89% as part-time bank teller trying to pay off student loans.
Any more questions I am more than willing to help you out:)
-Tarbosh
I agree that Catholic has an ok rep, but that looks ready to change. 94th? Really? How does that even happen?
All of the private schools on this list are bad value at sticker. The mathematics just suck. Tell yourself they don't, but other than "90% think they are Top 10% material" syndrome, you are going to have issues in finding a job that will justify the price.
I went to Catholic for two years and Ohio State for one year. My grades at Ohio State were much better than at Catholic, but yet Ohio State is ranked much higher. That fact alone convinced me that these rankings don't mean a whole lot and that LSAT scores don't predict success. Catholic is a great school, and if you're willing to spend the extra money, I would recommend it over Ohio State.
I went to Catholic for two years and Ohio State for one year. My grades at Ohio State were much better than at Catholic, but yet Ohio State is ranked much higher. That fact alone convinced me that these rankings don't mean a whole lot and that LSAT scores don't predict success. Catholic is a great school, and if you're willing to spend the extra money, I would recommend it over Ohio State.
I don't understand why Kent's still so low in these rankings. The school has an excellent trial advocacy program - we've won the national moot court competition and the national trial team competition two years running now. Good IT program, too, not that I ever want to go near it.
Kent grads get a lot of respect in the Chicago market, but of course the Chicago market is complete crap right now (like pretty much everywhere else). The school's biggest problem is that we get so much competition from U of C, Northwestern, and U of M grads. Those are some big names to compete with. That said, a lot of BigLaw firms recruit at Kent because the quality of the school has been going up in the last few years. I'd say between 5-10% got offers from BigLaw firms (although half those people are now deferred).
As more than a few people have already noted, you can go to one of these schools and get a good job so long as you are top 10% and either law review or moot court. It's risky to assume that you will be able to do that, however, as these schools are still surprisingly competitive.
IU-Indianapolis dropped solely because of inclusion of part-time numbers. About 250 of the law school's almost 1000 students are part-timers. The part-time program is well respected in the city and is made-up of largely area professionals. IU-Indy's previous rank of 68 is probably more in line with the school's quality.
I don't understand why Kent's still so low in these rankings. The school has an excellent trial advocacy program - we've won the national moot court competition and the national trial team competition two years running now. Good IT program, too, not that I ever want to go near it.
Kent grads get a lot of respect in the Chicago market, but of course the Chicago market is complete crap right now (like pretty much everywhere else). The school's biggest problem is that we get so much competition from U of C, Northwestern, and U of M grads. Those are some big names to compete with. That said, a lot of BigLaw firms recruit at Kent because the quality of the school has been going up in the last few years. I'd say between 5-10% got offers from BigLaw firms (although half those people are now deferred).
As more than a few people have already noted, you can go to one of these schools and get a good job so long as you are top 10% and either law review or moot court. It's risky to assume that you will be able to do that, however, as these schools are still surprisingly competitive.
Suck on my prestige, Hofstra!
SMU2L
what kind of career placement do they have at these schools? local manager at McDonalds?
Gonzaga: $30k in tuition each year and few job prospects outside Spokane, WA at graduation. What's not to like?
I'm a 3E at Catholic and I can say that the school is pretty well respected in DC. I agree that outside the area, however, we don't have the rep that I'd like. If you're at the top of your class, you do fine. I came out of fall recruiting with multiple offers.
We were 88 last year. The fall is disappointing.
260,
This is a thread about law schools. We are not referring to undergrad institutions known of late for basketball. I think you may be "lost on the web."
On behald of all the ATL readers, sorry to throw off your google searching.
-Tarbosh
My school was U. of Denver. I could have gone to a much higher ranked law school, but chose not to do so.
I have found its more practical education prepared me better to be a lawyer than many of the top-tier colleagues I have had over the years.
My only complaints about DU are that it costs far too much given its low ranking and scarce (at least when I attended) scholarship money, and that its low ranking makes it harder to land a great first job. After being a lawyer for a few years, I found it hasn't mattered much except to prima donna hiring partners at big law firms (where I didn't want to work anyway).
I went to Hofstra and let me tell you that JAP's from the Strong Island are naughty. I pounded at least three different chicks in the ass during my time there.
BANG!
Rutgers-Newark is a great school if you want to work in the NYC metro area. It's much cheaper than Seton Hall and gives out lots of scholarships. Even better, students get access to all the undergraduate facilities such as a free gym, health care services, and an actual campus. The top 20% have easily been able to get the job they want (be it BigLaw or public interest). Those who specialize in IP or tax also have no problems with the job market.
Seton Hall is also a good school and do place students in BigLaw. However, it is much more expensive for the same education and it's not nearly as diverse in terms of race, age, experience, and goals in life (many at Rutgers Newark are very focused on public interest work).
Rutgers-Camden is good if you want to work in the Philadelphia area, although it competes with Temple (a highly ranked, cheap state school).
Can't wait til this list gets down to my yet-to-be-fully accredited Tier 4 school.
Charleston Law 2L
260, that's actually incorrect. True, a lot of Gonzaga students go on to firms or public interest jobs in Spokane. But, I graduated last year and am working at a great firm in Seattle, as are many of my friends. This year's class has several students going to prestigious firms in Seattle, LA and Chicago. There are also students with federal clerkships and high profile public interest jobs in DC. The school is totally underrated, much like Santa Clara, and personally, I'm thrilled that it finally broke into the top 100, where it deserves to be.
Northeastern's rank doesn't fairly indicate its employment prospectives. During the boom, around 20% of the 2L class had summer associate gigs. Northeastern plays well around Boston if you do well.
I graduated from Rutgers-Newark 19 years ago (yeah, I'm old - what of it?) Back then it blew away Seton Hall, Cardozo etc. I turned down Cardozo to go there, not just because of lower tuition. So I wanna know: WTF HAPPENED!!
81 = FAIL. Napolitano is a UVA Law grad
178 - dead fucking on point
220 - You're an idiot and a racist apologist of the first order. 203 never said the LSAT was racist, nor did he/she say 206 was racist. For you to defend a comment as pathetic as "Although to be honest, 2 Negroes and 2 quarters don't even equal a dollar," however, definitely confirms you to be a punk ass racist bitch. You are a douchenozzle of the first order.
A fun fact about the University of Louisville:
Justice Brandeis' ashes are interred at the front door of the Law School.
UofL is a fine place to go if you want to practice in the area. Everyone always complains about their school with very little perspective of the experience at any other school.
I went to Seton Hall. I'm working at a V10 firm. And I have no debt. Just sayin...
I'm really surprised about Loyola Chicago. I think they are really trying to become a top tier school. They have a good dean and (at least back when I was in law school, or just thereafter in 2003-2005) had some impressive young faculty. Maybe that's changed and I haven't kept up. Or maybe the fact that there are a number of other good law schools in Chicago affects their LSAT, GPA, and job placement numbers.
I had a friend who took summer school at Denver (because her boyfriend was there). She said none of the students read any of the material prior to class and had nothing intelligent to say. I went to a top 20 (now top 25) school, and I guess that's the difference.
242, so what you're saying is every year about 5 students get into biglaw from Buffalo. Wow.
Why is banwidth being wasted on these schools. No one important cares.
266,
What the hell are you doing even reading this board? Charleston Law School is possibly the 4th most embarassing school in the country...such a waste of a beautiful city. Honestly, if you can't get in to South Carolina ( A grade-A piece of shit school in its own right)...you should probably think about a different career.
Seriously, Charleston is embarassing! I actually heard they are in danger of not getting full-accreditation due to an abysmal bar passage rate? any truth to this?
256 - I agree. IUPUI Law has produced such notable alumni as Dan Quayle and, um..., uh, did I say Dan Quayle? I've heard that UIPUI Law is basically just a K&E feeder school. A lot of other firms don't even bother to recruit there, since they know Kirkland's going to take most of the top 15%.
"DePaul and Kent are the same as John Marshall. If you go to these schools, say hello to insurance defense."
To 84. Whiler ethere may be some truth, you missed out Loyola, which is by far teh real dud in Chicago. It's been plummetting for years and is famous in Chicago for its rate of decay. Heck, even John Marshall and NIU are probably more highly respected than Loyola these days. There's a well known betting pool running in Chicago among associates/partners about how long it will be before Loyola, based on its rapid rate of descent, ranks in the 4 the tier. Current favorite is by 2012.
Richmond grad and former federal law clerk. During clerkship, I interviewed prospective replacement - - a U Chicago undergrad / Harvard law grad. Told him his resume was thin. Everyone can suck my fuzzy tier 2 balls.
Richmond grad and former federal law clerk. During clerkship, I interviewed prospective replacement - - a U Chicago undergrad / Harvard law grad. Told him his resume was thin. Everyone can suck my fuzzy tier 2 balls.
Nobody busted PE's chops at 46 for misusing the phrase "beg the question." Although a bunch of guys in my high school used to do this all the time, FAIL.
I can't WAIT until we get to the TTTTs.
Went to Seton Hall, got a biglaw gig this summer, but mostly because I knew someone. But if you do know someone, no one in NYC looks down on Seton Hall the way they do some of these other schools.
279 posted twice. Once for each fuzzy ball.
2008 middle of class Seton Hall grad working at mid-sized NJ firm making 120k. Not big law, but I come in at 9:30, leave at 6:00, have interesting work, go to court, client meetings, and take deps regularly. Would probably have saved some money going to Rutgers, and I don't like telling people where I went to school due to lack of national prestige, but as I want to work in jersey, I wouldn't change my position for the world.
256, The Law School At IUPUI has historically been ranked in the high 80s. It jumped last year, but this year's ranking is more in line with the past several years.
263, I agree. I graduated from Denver a few years back and got a very good job in another city doing transactional work. The facilities are very nice and living in Denver made for a great experience.
SLU is a sinking ship. Talented professors are leaving in droves. The dean has his head up his ass and folks outside of the top 10 percent can't find jobs - even in St. Louis. Their US News ranking as gone from 77 to 87 to 94 in the last three years. And even their health law program (ranked no. 1) is losing faculty members.
I also completely disagree with the "IF you want to practice in St. Louis" theory. WashU grads have their picks of jobs in the region and are competitive out of the region. The theory only works for the top 10 to 20 percent and the rest have serious difficulty finding a job. Moreover, pricewise you are saving only about 6 to 7k a year in tuition by going to SLU. The 18-21k difference is worth it - unless of course you get a full ride to SLU and want to do public interest. Then, by all means, avoid debt as much as you can.
Catholic's drop in the rankings this year was a direct result of lumping the evening program in with the day program. Almost every other school with an evening program suffered a similar decline in ranking.
Catholic's evening program ranked 21 out of to 80-90 programs ranked nationally.
I'm current a 2E there and I have absolutely no concern about my marketability once I graduate. There is clear respect in the Washington, D.C. area for the school.
I work in the DC area and I don't think anyone at my firm respects Catholic.
Just my 2 cents...
I went to Buffalo during the years they were raising tuition from 5K to 8K to 12K -- thanks Pataki -- and it was still the best deal I ever made. Other than Cornell, it's the best law school in the state outside NYC. SU and Albany don't come close, and they cost three times as much.
In this economy, there are about three private law schools worth the money. If you're from NYS and you don't get into any of them, UB is the best option out there. If you're intelligent and can write well, frankly that will automatically put you ahead of 50% of the class. A little hard work will put you in the top 20%, and if you bust your ass the world will be your oyster upon graduation.
This earlier comment was spot on: "It doesn't take a genius to do the analysis here, people: Buffalo is a great place for bargain-minded students confident in their ability to out-perform 80% of their classmates."
I outperformed 95%, OCI was a breeze, and I had offers from everywhere. My law review classmates had Biglaw offers and clerkships. Had I wanted to go to Biglaw NYC, I could have.
I never even heard of some of these schools. Honestly, Richmond? Arkansas? How many Rutgers are there btw?
Whoever criticized Richmond law because of the surrounding legal market is a dumbass. In Virginia alone, that is an asinine statement: Washington & Lee, William & Mary...bustling cities? Damn, think before you type, man.
With that being said, let's not kid ourselves, U. of Richmond is about where it should be. Locally, if you can parlay that into a job at H&W or M&W, you're golden- low cost of living, no traffic, etc. Tough to beat that if you don't WANT to live in a city. It's also easy enough to get jobs at D.C. and NOVA firms. Beyond that, it's definitely a struggle.
The only reason I have heard of Richmond is because I applied there once I read that it was likely the most racist town in the top 100, and I liked that.
But ultimately chose to go elsewhere.
Another Denver (DU) grad here & agree w/ most of the comments. I did spend a visiting year @ a Tier 1 school, so I was able to compare DU to a Top Tier school. I thought the main difference between DU & the school I attended was that there were more students who don't care @ DU & more "gunners" at the Top Tieir. However, you could take 80% of the students at either school and wouldn't know the difference.
As far as jobs, unless you graduate from a Top 10 law school, if you don't graduate from DU or CU in Denver, it's difficult to land a job. And I dissagree about top law firms in Denver. Many of them hire the top students out of DU. Just look up where the attorneys at the top law firms went to school and you'll find at least 10-20% attended DU.
289 - Some schools actually jumped up (by 12 positions) in the rankings by including their PT programs. Stop bringing down your day counterparts.
282, exactly, it will be brutal, and I will love every minute of it.
Leiter: Law School Rankings Based on Job Placement - Hiring By Very Selective Firms
1. Harvard University
2. Columbia University
3. New York University
4. Fordham University
5. Yale University
6. University of Pennsylvania
7. Georgetown University
7. University of Chicago
9. University of Texas, Austin
10. University of Virginia
11. Boston University
11. Cornell University
13. Brooklyn Law School
14. University of California, Berkeley
15. Northwestern University
15. University of Michigan
17. Duke University
17. Rutgers University, Newark
19. Cardozo Law School
19. Stanford University
19. Univ. of California, Los Angeles
22. Emory University
22. George Washington University
22. Seton Hall University
22. University of Iowa
22. University of Notre Dame
I would go to one of the Rutgers law schools. At least it's associated with a quite reputable national research university.
Picked Kent over NW. Got the same Big Law job in Chicago. I'm probably $50-75K less in debt. Could have picked Illinois at in-state price, but Champaign vs. Chicago is a no-brainer. I suspect the fall is from the new full/part time thing.
271,
Do those ashes help anyone outside of the top 15% find a job?
They do not.
I know from experience.
/s TTToileteer
160, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ttt
BTW, is this profession so mindless and uncreative that it cannot think of anything new to call a perceived inferior law school. If I could read a day in the comments without seeing, TTT, my life would be a good bit better.
215, Exactly. As a bonus, we don't have to live in one of the major markets like NYC. Though about half of the New Yorkers I've met, and apparantly 100% of them present here, can't understand that NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO LIVE IN NYC. I enjoy a higher quality of life and lower cost of living by giving up the prestige rat race.
217, Is the 20K difference between these markets and working regionally worth the much higher cost of living that eats your salary difference on top of the notorious work schedules that don't even train you to be a real lawyer?
So the top fifteen ppl at SUNY go to big law...who wants to work that hard before you work hard before the rest of your life?
...seriously, if you can only get into one of these schools you should try the LSAT again later...unless youre poor and need a free ride....and you better be REALLLLLY poor because if you go to a top school and take out tons of loans you can still pay them off in a couple of years with your high paying job.
This thread is really sad. I went to one of these schools as a 1L and then transferred to a "T14" (a pathetic, meaningless distinction, by the way). At every law school, how well you do corresponds with the opportunities you're going to have. The bottom half of the class at Harvard is not going to have the same prospects (in the short and long-term) as someone in the top 10%. The same goes for these schools except that you need to do really really well to Harvard-esque opportunities (but for the top students, they're there).
I was one of those students and there are many days I regret leaving. I actually have the same grades at my "T14," but the type of student is very, very different at my new school. At my first school, my classmates tended to be normal, well-rounded, went to a great college, but had a little too much fun or played a serious D1 college sport, and got just over a 3.0 as a result. Didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but when applying to law school, a gpa like that can really haunt you (case in point: I have a friend from college who had a 2.9 bc he was lazy as hell, but then got a 176 on the LSAT yet didn't get into a single T20 school).
As a result, my former law school classmates were great people, had great perspectives on what's important, no sense of entitlement (see: anyone who has ever called anything "TTT" on this site), and put simply: were the type of people you'd want to work with (and be friends with). You would never hear, for example, anyone debating the difference in prestige between S&C and Cravath (something you might hear before class at my current school). The students knew working in "Biglaw" wasn't a foregone conclusion, and frankly, most students (including most in the top 10%) had given that thought so much consideration before coming in, that they were able to discern exactly what they really wanted out of a fulfilling, meaningful legal career in their first year of law school. There are a lot of aspiring public defenders, prosecutors, and JAGs in that class, as a result.
So before coming on this thread just to call a school "TTT" (which is so damn stupid, by the way. look at yourself in the mirror and honestly tell me you like yourself if you're going on a website to anonymously bash some school you never went to just to make yourself feel good, particularly when using meaningless "words" like "TTT." idiots), you should know that the schools from 77 to 100 are places with caring professors, down-to-earth students who don't take themselves too seriously, and hard-working kids who could just as easily be at the top of a T14 (I'm evidence of that).
A lot of you people are either pathetic, have serious self-esteem issues, have no idea what you're talking about, are bitter that transfers from a "TTT" cleaned up in OCI because they were personable and well-rounded, or all of the above.
Just my two cents.
Lower ranked law school + JD/MBA program = 6 figure job, 40hr weeks and less than 80k in debt.
You kids have fun billing your hours and masturbating to your top 10 diplomas and huge student loan payments. That extra 60k in salary isn't worth those extra 30 hours a week.
247: Re: "first rate faculty" - are you kidding? did we go to the same school??
This thread is really sad. I went to one of these schools as a 1L and then transferred to a "T14" (a pathetic, meaningless distinction, by the way). At every law school, how well you do corresponds with the opportunities you're going to have. The bottom half of the class at Harvard is not going to have the same prospects (in the short and long-term) as someone in the top 10%. The same goes for these schools except that you need to do really really well to Harvard-esque opportunities (but for the top students, they're there).
I was one of those students and there are many days I regret leaving. I actually have the same grades at my "T14," but the type of student is very, very different at my new school. At my first school, my classmates tended to be normal, well-rounded, went to a great college, but had a little too much fun or played a serious D1 college sport, and got just over a 3.0 as a result. Didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but when applying to law school, a gpa like that can really haunt you (case in point: I have a friend from college who had a 2.9 bc he was lazy as hell, but then got a 176 on the LSAT yet didn't get into a single T20 school).
As a result, my former law school classmates were great people, had great perspectives on what's important, no sense of entitlement (see: anyone who has ever called anything "TTT" on this site), and put simply: were the type of people you'd want to work with (and be friends with). You would never hear, for example, anyone debating the difference in prestige between S&C and Cravath (something you might hear before class at my current school). The students knew working in "Biglaw" wasn't a foregone conclusion, and frankly, most students (including most in the top 10%) had given that thought so much consideration before coming in, that they were able to discern exactly what they really wanted out of a fulfilling, meaningful legal career in their first year of law school. There are a lot of aspiring public defenders, prosecutors, and JAGs in that class, as a result.
So before coming on this thread just to call a school "TTT" (which is so damn stupid, by the way. look at yourself in the mirror and honestly tell me you like yourself if you're going on a website to anonymously bash some school you never went to just to make yourself feel good, particularly when using meaningless "words" like "TTT." idiots), you should know that the schools from 77 to 100 are places with caring professors, down-to-earth students who don't take themselves too seriously, and hard-working kids who could just as easily be at the top of a T14 (I'm evidence of that).
A lot of you people are either pathetic, have serious self-esteem issues, have no idea what you're talking about, are bitter that transfers from a "TTT" cleaned up in OCI because they were personable and well-rounded, or all of the above.
Just my two cents.
Lower ranked law school + JD/MBA program = 6 figure job, 40hr weeks and less than 80k in debt.
You kids have fun billing your hours and masturbating to your top 10 diplomas and huge student loan payments. That extra 60k in salary isn't worth those extra 30 hours a week.
USF is better than all of the 75 to 100 schools.
There is a blatant anti-midwest sentiment to the rankings. Chicago-Kent or Depaul match up with many schools in the top 50. Believe me, I spent time at one of these two schools, and time at a supposedly peer school on the west coast. The faculty, rigor, and writing program at the Chicago school was superior. The students at the west coast school were a little more east coasty, to the extent they weren't locals, however. Kent to #35!
The best way to level the playing field is go to Rutgers, work in NYC and then move wherever you want after a few years of solid work experience. I personally have never worked with or dealt with NY biglaw atty from AZ, AL, Wake, UT, CO, SMU, FL, FSU, Cincy, CW, TN, KY, SD, LC, GSU, KS, LSU, etc, etc, etc. (all ranked higher by USNews). Go figure.
The biggest problem facing Rutgers' rankings is its admissions standards. The school allows for applicants to select an evaluation standard based on either:
1. Experience
or
2. Grades/LSAT
Therefore, many students who choose the former and get admitted because they increase the "diversity" profile of the law school, dilute the grade point avg/LSAT average that USWR rankings weigh fairly heavily.
Further, because diversity is no longer a factor considered by the USNWR rankings, all the eggs that Rutgers has placed in that basket previous, are now no longer considered.
That being said, Rutgers is an underrated law school. Top 20 worthy, no, but top 50, YES.
When you combine cost, access to big markets, faculty and relatively new facilities, it is a pretty good deal.
They also recently hired a new dean, former NJ Attorney General, John Farmar, who should be a positive, fresh addition to the law school.
This thread is really sad. I went to one of these schools as a 1L and then transferred to a "T14" (a pathetic, meaningless distinction, by the way). At every law school, how well you do corresponds with the opportunities you're going to have. The bottom half of the class at Harvard is not going to have the same prospects (in the short and long-term) as someone in the top 10%. The same goes for these schools except that you need to do really really well to Harvard-esque opportunities (but for the top students, they're there).
I was one of those students and there are many days I regret leaving. I actually have the same grades at my "T14," but the type of student is very, very different at my new school. At my first school, my classmates tended to be normal, well-rounded, went to a great college, but had a little too much fun or played a serious D1 college sport, and got just over a 3.0 as a result. Didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but when applying to law school, a gpa like that can really haunt you (case in point: I have a friend from college who had a 2.9 bc he was lazy as hell, but then got a 176 on the LSAT yet didn't get into a single T20 school).
As a result, my former law school classmates were great people, had great perspectives on what's important, no sense of entitlement (see: anyone who has ever called anything "TTT" on this site), and put simply: were the type of people you'd want to work with (and be friends with). You would never hear, for example, anyone debating the difference in prestige between S&C and Cravath (something you might hear before class at my current school). The students knew working in "Biglaw" wasn't a foregone conclusion, and frankly, most students (including most in the top 10%) had given that thought so much consideration before coming in, that they were able to discern exactly what they really wanted out of a fulfilling, meaningful legal career in their first year of law school. There are a lot of aspiring public defenders, prosecutors, and JAGs in that class, as a result.
So before coming on this thread just to call a school "TTT" (which is so damn stupid, by the way. look at yourself in the mirror and honestly tell me you like yourself if you're going on a website to anonymously bash some school you never went to just to make yourself feel good, particularly when using meaningless "words" like "TTT." idiots), you should know that the schools from 77 to 100 are places with caring professors, down-to-earth students who don't take themselves too seriously, and hard-working kids who could just as easily be at the top of a T14 (I'm evidence of that).
A lot of you people are either pathetic, have serious self-esteem issues, have no idea what you're talking about, are bitter that transfers from a "TTT" cleaned up in OCI because they were personable and well-rounded, or all of the above.
Just my two cents.
the lower half at harvard has way more opprotunities than the upper half at a low ranked school...and we dont have to work hard to get those opprotunities...we have lives IN law school...have fun wit dur skeeters in da boonies
USF is better than all of the 75 to 100 schools.
A lot of you on here don't know very much and need to grow up. I believe the progression of the psyche of the "I am better than you crowd" goes something like this: 1. hated in high school and went to prom with sister, 2. went to college and got wasted on Zima, 3. killed the LSAT, 4. got into a good law school where my credentials existed solely of killing the LSAT and 5. now am a peon at a big firm and feeling super cool for the first time in what has been a socially awkward and frustrating existence.
The funny thing about these schools is that some are in the worst parts of the country (anything in new jersey) and some are in some of the best part of the country (Denver, Oregon, Santa Clara) so the kids at say denver (where I go) get some of the best skiing in the world, while others (again see NJ) just hope to avoid getting shot and/or molested by some dude with blowout.
Seriously though, at this point in the rankings, the people that don't consider quality of life between the different schools are absolutely too stupid to even be going to these schools.
317, you're ignorant if you think NJ is as bad as you describe. it has one of the highest per capita incomes of any state in the country. outside the urban areas of newark, camden, etc. it's actually pretty rural and quite beautiful.
denver is a joke. good luck getting a job in uh... denver. you go to law school to study law not ski you moron.
316, you nailed it.
TTTLDR
276-
Didn't bother applying to University of South Carolina. That town is abysmal except on football gamedays in the fall and St. Patrick's Day.
Bar passage rates at CSOL, while poor, are slowly climbing. It may take 20 years at this rate, but they will eventually catch up to the USC's and Mercer's of the world. Haven't heard anything about not getting accredited. They've passed all the hurdles to date with flying colors. But to be honest, don't you agree that the onus is on the student, and not the school, to study for and pass the bar?
And to answer your first question, I read this strictly for the comments section.. Latham guy, Section 90, Nervous 1L, Dow is Up....All of them combine to give me comfort in knowing that I have absolutely no intention to go to BigLaw, clerk for SCOTUS, etc.
When I get out of here, I will assuredly be employed at a respectable local or regional firm, and that's fine by me. I've already got a house on the water, and enjoy a relatively low cost of living. If I can put the kids through private school and maybe get a bigger boat, I'll be content.
Little traffic, a vibrant arts and cultural scene, the beach and miles of waterfront, top-notch medical facilities, and more beautiful women than you can shake a stick at.... Yep, I really screwed up choosing to stay here and go to school.
319 proves the point of many posts here.
322,
I agree Charleston is a GREAT town. However, I didn't say I go to South Carolina...I would never go to that hack-ass school. However, you cannot possibly tell me the Students at Charleston School of Law are even remotely intelligent. They are the future Ambulance Chasers/Public Defenders/Para-laywers/ Quitters. You may as well call Charleston an Open Enrollment school...they will take anyone. I hope it succeeds, but these for-profit institutions are going to find it tough to climb in rankings while appeasing the shareholders.
I don't mean to be an ass (b/c South Carolina kids are just as stupid) but the students I have met from Charleston are utterly hopeless!
-276
318 I've been to NJ multiple times, its miserable, and the worst thing about people from NJ is they just don't realize how much their state sucks.
319 Are you retarded? I would think skiing for half a day (that's all the time it takes) certainly doesn't count as skiing and not studying, but since I assume you probably are from NJ, your characterization is understandable. Oh and by the way, I have a $160K offer upon graduation. Have fun being miserable the rest of your life.
317 - Some people may be considering their prospects after law school in choosing to go to school in NJ over Denver. Your degree will get you in the door in Salt Lake or Boise or Omaha, but if NY or DC is in your plans, good luck.
BTW, while it's no Denver of course, NYC is rumored to be an enjoyable place to hang out from time to time. It's about as long a train ride from Newark as a ride on the light rail to Littleton.
Lawyers = Gardeners. . . .working in finance, consulting, or at an S&M club is much better than any job you'll get coming from these schools
Rutgers - Camden recently built a new law school that was just dedicated last month. It is quite spectacular and is easily the nicest building in all of Camden (HA!).
They should hand all of their students some mace.
Rutgers - Camden recently built a new law school that was just dedicated last month. It is quite spectacular and is easily the nicest building in all of Camden (HA!).
They should hand all of their students some mace.
Not quite 327. Go to marhub and you can see that denver has a fair number of partners in big law in dc and elsewhere.
Working in Finance....hmm, that may be the only industry getting BIGGER pay cuts than BigLaw.
Consulting.....hmm, this may be the only professional people hate more than lawyers, due to the fact it is difficult to understand exactly what skillset it is consultants have.
S&M Club....hmm, you got me there. Are there any hiring?
The people at these schools are smarter than those at the "T14." I have a friend who finished in the top 10% after 1L at Rutgers-Newark, and transferred and now he told me he's in the 5th percentile at a T14 school. That is SO AMAZINGLY GOOD. He said the students at the T14 don't even compare to the ones here.
While we're on Charleston School of Law . . .
I beat up an annoying fat kid by the monkey bars in the 3rd grade. Later, I mocked him for being held back in the 4th grade. In junior year of high school, I spread the "truth-ish" rumor that he smelled of urine and baloney. I found out the other day (via facebook) that he's at Charleston and most likely has no job prospects whatsoever. If I see him again, I'm going to have to beat him up on principle. It's like he and God teamed up to produce the suckiest loser. I can't wait to post this again when ATL hits the bottom of the barrel law schools so that he can read it, recognize who I am, and realize that his life has been a never-ending punchline. Thank you, God for creating that fat smelly little bastard. Though I am tall, handsome, well-educated, and successful, none of these have brought me the joy in life that equals the joy I have received by continuously mocking this worthless chubby skidmark of a human being. If karma works, in a former life he might have been Hitler. But I discount this because not even Adolf would have attended Charleston.
The people at these schools are smarter than those at the "T14." I have a friend who finished in the top 10% after 1L at Rutgers-Newark, and transferred and now he told me he's in the 5th percentile at a T14 school. That is SO AMAZINGLY GOOD. He said the students at the T14 don't even compare to the ones here.
Working in Finance....hmm, that may be the only industry getting BIGGER pay cuts than BigLaw.
Consulting.....hmm, this may be the only professional people hate more than lawyers, due to the fact it is difficult to understand exactly what skillset it is consultants have.
S&M Club....hmm, you got me there. Are there any hiring?
Went to Santa Clara but cannot understand for the life of me why other commenters feel like it needs to be ranked higher -- its definitely on par with the other schools in the 75-100 range. The only draw to the campus is its location in Silicon Valley -- the alums and faculty that it brags about in big tech only went there because they didn't get into Stanford, Boalt, or Hastings, and they wanted to/had to stay in the bay area. I was content with the job I landed post-graduation, but definitely did not receive a spectacular education, esp for the amount of money I paid to attend and live there for three years.
To 21:
If someone gets a little monetary help from their parents, is that supposed to somehow lend less importance to the fact that he/she has a better GPA than you?
Do you really think you didn't get hired because you pay for your own gas? Are you sure it didn't have something to do with you being awful at taking exams and coming across as a bitter, self-righteous jerk in your OCI interviews?
When you graduate from Northeastern, you can fight your fellow unemployed graduates for sweet babies like this (taken from the Northeastern job board):
Description: I am looking for someone to assist in a research project that involves the following situation:
Client signed an agreement to arbitrate disputes between himself and company "A", if any arose. Client, though not an employee of "A" was controlled by "A". He was a salesman whose compensation was based on commissions. "A" terminated the relationship and refused to pay the client for monies earned.
Client files suit in the Superior Court for various claims against "A", but does not reference a claim for non-payment of wages. Superior Court Judge dismisses the suit and orders that the "claims" be resolved by arbitration. Under the non-payment of wages statute, an employee must first obtain permission of the Attorney General's office before filing a lawsuit against an employer.
Client decides to obtain the AG's consent; received the consent; and has recently filed a suit in another Superior Court, seeking damages under the non-payment of wages statute.
I expect that "A" will seek to have the case dismissed based upon the previous Judge's ruling, notwithstanding:
1. Non-payment of wages claim was not previously presented
2. The AG's office had to first give its consent to filing a lawsuit, which had not been done in the first lawsuit.
I want to be ready to oppose "A"'s attempt to get the new lawsuit dismissed. I will be looking for a memorandum/opposition that will oppose any attempt to dismiss this new lawsuit.
Compensation will be at $15.00 per hour. I expect 15 hours should be sufficient amount of time.
To 21:
If someone gets a little monetary help from their parents, is that supposed to somehow lend less importance to the fact that he/she has a better GPA than you?
Do you really think you didn't get hired because you pay for your own gas? Are you sure it didn't have something to do with you being awful at taking exams and coming across as a bitter, self-righteous jerk in your OCI interviews?
To 21:
If someone gets a little monetary help from their parents, is that supposed to somehow lend less importance to the fact that he/she has a better GPA than you?
Do you really think you didn't get hired because you pay for your own gas? Are you sure it didn't have something to do with you being awful at taking exams and coming across as a bitter, self-righteous jerk in your OCI interviews?
To 21:
If someone gets a little monetary help from their parents, is that supposed to somehow lend less importance to the fact that he/she has a better GPA than you?
Do you really think you didn't get hired because you pay for your own gas? Are you sure it didn't have something to do with you being awful at taking exams and coming across as a bitter, self-righteous jerk in your OCI interviews?
To 21:
If someone gets a little monetary help from their parents, is that supposed to somehow lend less importance to the fact that he/she has a better GPA than you?
Do you really think you didn't get hired because you pay for your own gas? Are you sure it didn't have something to do with you being awful at taking exams and coming across as a bitter, self-righteous jerk in your OCI interviews?
To 21:
If someone gets a little monetary help from their parents, is that supposed to somehow lend less importance to the fact that he/she has a better GPA than you?
Do you really think you didn't get hired because you pay for your own gas? Are you sure it didn't have something to do with you being awful at taking exams and coming across as a bitter, self-righteous jerk in your OCI interviews?
21,
Holy shit, you fucking jackass.
-Tarbosh
Pardon me...337, 339-343,
Holy shit, you fucking jackass
-Tarbosh
Agreed.
337,339-43,
Wow.
9 & 260: What's your beef with Spokane? It's a great place to live while going to law school with its inexpensive cost of living and friendly environment.
And 267 is right, most Gonzaga grads leave Spokane for very good jobs (primary in Western Washington). If you're choosing between Seattle U (also a good school) and Gonzaga consider the cost -- 3 grand less at Gonzaga in tuition and probably 6 grand less in housing each year.
You can really have a good quality life after graduating from most any of the schools ranked 50-100 (perhaps even some tier three), at a fraction of the debt.
313,
Don't you get it yet? Your two cents don't count for anything. Don't think your transfer status makes you as good as those that got in out of a large and well qualified first year applicant pool. Showing you got better grades than intellectually handicapped students at some TTT proves nothing. You are destined for irrelevance.
313,
Don't you get it yet? Your two cents don't count for anything. Don't think your transfer status makes you as good as those that got in out of a large and well qualified first year applicant pool. Showing you got better grades than intellectually handicapped students at some TTT proves nothing. You are destined for irrelevance.
Re: Catholic
Two of its law grads, Rick Renzi and Beardall were indicted for corruption and insurance fraud.
313 - Same boat. Couldn't agree more. It wasn't until I arrived at my current "T14" school that I realized what kind of elitist snobs I'd be surrounded by for the next two years. I had been operating under a grand delusion that people attending "T14" schools must be pretty content (on the whole) given where they were and their admittedly solid job prospects (pre-economic collapse). Boy was I wrong. It is sad that anyone comes on here to post "TTT (insert inane comment here) TTT OMG you work at McDonald's with that degree." And I mean it is sad that ANYONE would do that. Your 8 year old little brother posting those kinds of things on here is less pathetic than a "T14" student doing that. The image of anyone reading this blog and feeling the need to respond with a post like that really makes you wonder about who is sitting at that computer. These aren't well-rounded or in any way "normal" people. It's not a pretty picture.
honest to god i didn't even know denver was a college or a law school for that matter. why wouldn't you just go to colorado at boulder?
Let me break it down:
If a person becomes rich by winning the lottery, does it mean they get to play golf with the people who earned their wealth? No!
If a T50-100 scrub makes it to BigLaw, does it mean they get to play golf with us T14 kids? No!
You are second-class citizens...just be happy you arent a TTT or TTTT citizen...I think my Dog lives a better life than those scrubs.
-Tarbosh
Richmond...
where we have one studly dean:
http://www.law.richmond.edu/faculty/jdouglass.php
yow!
denver is a hole. boulder, now you're talking.
351-
Obviously someone is feeling a bit bad about their degree from Thomas Cooley:(
-Tarbosh
Thanks, 347. Go Zags.
Plus Gonzaga is in a nice college town with attractive undergrads and a decent sports program.
Tarbosh - where do you golf; where are you a member?
As a Richmond 2L, I get to hit CCV on the reg and head down to Sea Island often.
I'll let you carry my bag.
Thanks, 347. Go Zags.
Plus Gonzaga is in a nice college town with attractive undergrads and a decent sports program.
356 - When that Cooley transfer gets better grades and jobs than you, I suggest emphasizing your high LSAT score in all subsequent interviews.
Tarbosh-
for want of a book of business, many a graduate of your hallowed "T14" institutions missed or were dismissed from partnerships in BigLaw. This state of affairs will continue. Once you get past a certain point, resting on one's laurels will do nothing more than get one laughed right out of the door. It won't so much be about what you did in law school or where you went. In BigLaw, I suspect it's more about the $$- and there is no correlate between going to a T14 and being a better rainmaker than someone who did not.
-Not a T14 grad
358,
Are you an idiot? I am a junior associate at a major firm. Do you expect to have a lot of time to travel to Sea Island, GA? We work non-stop, and sure as hell don't take vacation now...or may not have an office to come back to. I get to play twice a month at most during summer. Of course, your Richmond degree should get you into the Public Defender's office so you'll have plenty of time. Good luck affording a good club on $35k a year.
I was usine golf as a metaphor (for ya know..like, hanging out and stuff. Should i have said you TTT scum can't drink Scotch with us? Would that be better.) I meant that most Tier 2, 3, 4, people don't like us because we don't want to hang out with plebians like you.
-Tarbosh
P.S. Congrats on getting into the 4th best school in Virginia!
304, 307, 313
Awesome post--a diamond in the rough that is why I do sift through these posts.
349
Sorry, play again. You may want to actually read his post and what it's about, instead of shooting from the hip and looking shallow and mistaken.
351, Thanks for the affirmation.
I go to school in the dregs of the T-14, but I've really never noticed this snobbery or transfer hatred that is apparently rampant. Most people simply don't care if you came from some other school for second year. I'm sure there are some d-bags around but whatever.
The only thing that could be more annoying than the elitist snob is the insecurity issues displayed by some transfers/T2 students on this board.
And I wouldn't be overly proud of 2nd/3rd year grades. Everyone knows the race is won 1st year.
362 - Tarbosh
Are you not a member at any decent private clubs?
Maybe, when you're laid off from BigLaw you can wait on me and my friends from Richmond.
My membership's paid off too.
338 - Is that a fucking joke?
Tarbosh - we could have guessed you were a junior associate. Everything about your is junior and amateurish. Once you get past a certain point in the profession nobody gives a crap about where you went to school. For me, that point was actually day one. Once you are in, you are in. The academic comparison's cease. Now go back to being an angry peon.
365-
Memberships paid off? Riiiiight..ok....again, on $35k you should be able to afford dues, Drinks, Food, Cart/Caddie, Guest Fees, a nice apartment, nice car.
Unless of course you have a trust fund....but I would never feel very good flaunting money that I didn't earn myself....but that's just me.
-Tarbosh
I never said I wasn't a member anywhere. I said I don't get to play often and your little joyrides to Sea Island will end...unless your law career never gets off the ground (highly probable).
Tarbosh. You are significantly overweight. Isn't it remarkable that we can just tell? Have fun in Teir 1 with a body mass index of 4000.
and no . . . i seriously don't know who you are, tarbosh.
that'll do, pig. That'll do.
--369
367
You clearly don't work in BigLaw.
365
Are you seriously using the "you'll be serving me food one day" line. Truly pathetic. I expect more from someone at the 4th best school in the state
-UVA 2L
369, 370-
Spoken like a true slumdweller. Nice argument!
-Tarbosh :)
oh, i'm not arguing at all, tarbosh. I just thought that everyone should know that your OCI's inevitably ended in: "are you gonna finish that?"
373,
Your mother didn't seem to mind the weight gain when I was blasting her up the ass
-Tarbosh
346, no doubt culture varies by school, and surely the poster wouldn't want to reveal an identity by naming the school.
I saw a wide variety of opinions here too:
http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/12/poaching_1ls_a_new_perspective.php#comments
367 here. Um yes I do work in big law and nobody asks me where I went to school. I could have gone to school on jupiter at this point. Progressing quite well and living day to day with ass bags like you. I don't know where half the people I work with went to school because I don't measure the quality of people's work by their LSAT score. I mean what a joke. Half of these "top schools" don't even rank and just mesh their students into an undifferentiated mass. Throw a high B + curve into the mix and what do you get ... a nice rubber stamp on that LSAT score.
TO ALL:
Notice that Tarbosh has yet to refute the claim that he uses a special razor to shave his triple chin. By his silence on this hefty hefty issue, he has acquiesced that he indeed sweats nutella.
Amazing, isn't it, Tarbosh?
oink oink
I go to Santa Clara right now and i have to agree it is pretty underrated. The education i'm getting here is on par and in some respects better than the education I received at UCLA. The school just needs better facilities and a better faculty to student ratio and it would shoot up the charts. Jobs are really no problem and many of the students at the bottom of the class were able to secure jobs within 9 months of graduation, not in high tech either, and those that didn't just didn't want to work in the legal profession anyways.
It doesn't really matter what school you go to. Yeah it helps if you are in a better school but if you bust your ass and actually have a personality they you can get your foot in the door. It also always helps to network with the alumni cause they tend to look out for each other.
Also, Tarbosh, get off your high horse. No one cares where you went to school. There is no need for you to bash people who went to schools that are ranked below 50, except to boost your insecure ego. If bashing these schools really gets you off then go for it, have the time of your life. Just know that everything you said is wrong. Once you are out of school it just matter what kind of person you are. If you want to make fake classes based on where people went to school then you are gonna miss out. Tarbosh, you are the exactly the type of person I would never want to associate myself with, no matter where you went to school.
379, don't forget that someone confirmed that tarbosh is indeed fat.
379,
Spoken like a true Cooley grad
-Tarbosh
USF 3L, Top 15% (almost Top 10), LRev (published), Moot Court, tutoring (hi guys!)
304- Thank god.
198- Elitist bastards always overestimate their abilities, don't they?
And as far as LSAT's go, sorry, Daddy didn't have money to send me to a training course which boosts your score 15 points. An intelligence test? I can move shit with my mind compared to some of the dumb T-20 shits I've gone up against in Moot Court. TTT kids = usually just as good.
Your school's ranking/median LSAT doesn't mean a goddamn thing in front of a judge.
dear fellow half-retards at shitty, bottom of the "first tier" schools,
stop getting all defensive about your position in life. the only people who give a fuck about this thread are current students and grads of the schools listed above.
love,
the people cringing when we see a passionate comment about how WONDERFUL it truly is at school XY, if only everyone else knew!
# 198 - Are the intellectual people you're referring to the same people who are now in the unenviable position of laying lawyers off weekly and pushing back the start dates of their new hires 6 months to a year?
maybe i crossed the line. i'll stop being a dick. i think it's all the weight i gained.
-Tarbosh
385 is obviously an imposter. If you had half a brain you would realize I capitalize the first letter of all my posts. But then again, exactly what I expect from the future public defenders of the world.
-Tarbosh
This imposter problem will be in the past. I am proud to say, from now on you can all look at my beautiful face when you read my comments.
-Tarbosh:)
These are all great schools to transfer out of.
Santa Clara's Problem: The Students. The faculty is top notch, but only about the top 20% of the class actually cares about being in law school. The school needs to focus less on turning a buck and actually be a bit more selective in admissions (though maybe that's how they subsidize a decent faculty).
Buffalo is a great place to live and to go to school. It has great culture, museums, restaurants, and a good law school that is a great bargain. I can vouch for the fact that many Buffalo grads go to Vault 20 firms because I am one of them- and happy to say that I have half the debt of everyone else in my year. Also it is indeed a great public interest minded school and not everyone wants to go into BigLaw.
Buffalo is a great place to live and to go to school. It has great culture, museums, restaurants, and a good law school that is a great bargain. I can vouch for the fact that many Buffalo grads go to Vault 20 firms because I am one of them- and happy to say that I have half the debt of everyone else in my year. Also it is indeed a great public interest minded school and not everyone wants to go into BigLaw.
Buffalo is a great place to live and to go to school. It has great culture, museums, restaurants, and a good law school that is a great bargain. I can vouch for the fact that many Buffalo grads go to Vault 20 firms because I am one of them- and happy to say that I have half the debt of everyone else in my year. Also it is indeed a great public interest minded school and not everyone wants to go into BigLaw.
Tarbosh, clearly no one cares about you or your work product as you have too much time on your hands to be posting so many messages.
Go find a job where someone actually wants you.
389: couldn't agree with you more. i go to Santa Clara and most of the people in the top 20% are pretty smart. but the rest of the class seems almost oblivious to the fact that they're in law school and should actually care about trying to get a job after graduation.
389: couldn't agree with you more. i go to Santa Clara and most of the people in the top 20% are pretty smart. but the rest of the class seems almost oblivious to the fact that they're in law school and should actually care about trying to get a job after graduation.
Santa Clara grads, don't fool yourselves. Whittier and CAL-WESTERN!! had higher bar passage rates than you.
I attended one of these schools. I applied to the two local law schools, one of which is ranked here and the other is top 20. I was accepted at both, but I chose the lower ranked school for the scholarship.
Yes, the program was less rigorous than I would have experienced had I chosen the more prestigious school, but I made the best of it. There's something to be said for being a big fish in a small pond.
I scored a federal clerkship and because I plan to practice in the local market, my degree is just as valuable.
If Santa Clara admitted less of some of these shitty full time law students that come straight out of undergrad and added more part time students it would actually be better. The part timers are actually very smart and focused and almost all come from prior professional careers. The level of interest and intelligence between the two groups of students is very noticeable.
wow, tarbosh. Has anyone told you that you have the Innsmouth look? I can't believe that a little teasing made you create a profile, load a pic, etc. If you're T1, i'd rather be T5. You look like Herpes and Hepatitis had a child.
Tarbosh claims to be a junior associate at a major firm, yet he spends his entire afternoon posting on a blog. He must be taking a break from constantly writing memorandums.
So is it Hofstra and Hofstra-Texas or
SMU and SMU-Long Island.
I always forget which of these TTTs has a satellite campus in another state.
348,
Are you arguing that transfers are "irrelevant" but non-transfers at a magical "T14" are not? irrelevant in what sense? what the hell are you talking about?
What do you mean transfers aren't as "good" as those who got into a school the first time? As good at what? Getting into a T14 school? No shit, fuckface. What is the "relevance" in being "good" at getting into a school?
And why do commenter's "two cents" not matter? What is the point of this entire comments section?
And if these schools are "TTT," then why are you reading these comments? To put down people who go to a lower ranked school?
Your shit makes no goddamn sense, son.
If Santa Clara weren't in Silicon Valley it would be ranked even lower. Oh and that IP thing is so 2006. The glory days of patents are just about over.
"If Santa Clara weren't in Silicon Valley it would be ranked even lower." .......based on what?
"Oh and that IP thing is so 2006. The glory days of patents are just about over."......the only thing keeping biglaw from firing the rest of you losers is the patent litigation they have going on
You're an idiot 403. Have you looked at Obama's corporate tax plan. He's plannng on giving meaningful tax breaks to companies who invest heavily in research and developement for new products and technologies. That means... wait for it... MORE PATENTS! This policy coupled with the huge mess of patents currently in the system should keep patent attorneys busy for a long time.
yeah, but that doesn't mean the system is right. at some point the system is going to crumble based on all its clusterfuckery. i'm IN patent and i'm more than willing to admit the whole body of law is a giant money-making scam, and the more rules that are slapped on, the better it is for the patent guys. but really, if you look at some of the shit we're "protecting", it's complete and utter nonsense.
390 - Ha. Ha! HA! Buffalo is the shittiest, most depressing city. It is absolutely FULL of people who think it's the best place ever, which is truly bizarre.
Take one weekend and drive to Pittsburgh, Cleveland or Toronto. Or fly JetBlue to Boston or New York, or fly direct to Chicago, DC, Atlanta, or FLL/Miami. Or skip out of work early on Friday and go to the West Coast (Seattle, Portland, SF, LA, or SD) and take a red-eye back Sunday night.
"But it's SOOO expensive everywhere else!!!" Know what? It's really not. Rent might be 2-3x as much, but everything else is pretty much the same.
I know that there's not one perfect place for everyone, but, seriously, live a little. Buffalo is dead. There are no neighborhoods. Elmwood? Please. Allentown? There are like 5 places there. Cobblestone "District"?
Yeah, you can buy a sweet McMansion for $300k, but you can do that in Dallas, Denver, etc., too.
--One of many, many ex-Buffalonians (still Sabres and Bills fan, but that's about it)
I went to Rutgers-Camden. No journal, did a federal magistrate clerkship, big city ADA for two years, and now I'm an AUSA in a northeastern state that isn't NJ. It isn't biglaw, but I wouldn't want that. I'd rather be a lawyer (few people in my office consider biglaw attorneys real lawyers).
Best part: I don't owe a penny of student debt. My parents footed college and law school. Yes, it IS nice.
In short, I'm doing what I want -- hell, I never thought during law school I'd end up in a USAO, to be honest -- so why isn't a tier 2 school a good idea, again? Oh, that's right, if you want to go into biglaw blah blah. Haha.
Patent law is pretty fun. Way more fun that doing corporate monkey work.
I would just like to say that I envy all the top grads from good law schools and wish that I too had gone to a good law school. I went to a TTTT and hate my life. I work 40 hours a week for 60K a year and can only afford 5 suits off the discount rack at Macy's and I have to shuffle between them throughout the week. I have to settle for Polo and Hugo Boss dress shirts from Outlet Malls and my shoes are Kenneth Cole! :( I even had to settle for the Vizio 42" HDTV rather than the Panasonic Kuro Elite and my Costco card isn't even Executive! Do you know how embarrassing that is? Furthermore my wife and I had to purchase the cheapest airfare to Southern France on crappy American Airlines rather than Virgin Airlines for my two week vacation, and I can't afford the Movado watch I saw Sean Penn wear in that movie where he gets stranded in some desert town. I really wanted to wear that in France because as you know I can't afford the high class stuff that all the snazzy Europeans wear on my TTTT salary.
Why do all of you Top tier intelligent and handsome law students and graduates have to torment me? Isn't it enough that I envy you all and wish every night that I was as smart and awesome as you? Please stop hurting my feelings because I seek satisfaction of my entire being via the acceptance of anonymous others on an internet message board. Please be more considerate!
-Fourth Tier Loser
I would just like to say that I envy all the top grads from good law schools and wish that I too had gone to a good law school. I went to a TTTT and hate my life. I work 40 hours a week for 60K a year and can only afford 5 suits off the discount rack at Macy's and I have to shuffle between them throughout the week. I have to settle for Polo and Hugo Boss dress shirts from Outlet Malls and my shoes are Kenneth Cole! :( I even had to settle for the Vizio 42" HDTV rather than the Panasonic Kuro Elite and my Costco card isn't even Executive! Do you know how embarrassing that is? Furthermore my wife and I had to purchase the cheapest airfare to Southern France on crappy American Airlines rather than Virgin Airlines for my two week vacation, and I can't afford the Movado watch I saw Sean Penn wear in that movie where he gets stranded in some desert town. I really wanted to wear that in France because as you know I can't afford the high class stuff that all the snazzy Europeans wear on my TTTT salary.
Why do all of you Top tier intelligent and handsome law students and graduates have to torment me? Isn't it enough that I envy you all and wish every night that I was as smart and awesome as you? Please stop hurting my feelings because I seek satisfaction of my entire being via the acceptance of anonymous others on an internet message board. Please be more considerate!
-Fourth Tier Loser
412,
I am empathetic to your situation, yet cannot help but know that if you had been smarter, better looking, and socially skilled you would have been able to at least gain acceptance to a Tier 3 school. There is a very large difference between Cincinnati (Tier 3 I believe) and Thomas Cooley.
On the other hand though, you should be Commended for obtaining such a large salary. I am sure you are one of the top 2 or 3 biggest earners from your class. That is well done. I am actually somewhat surprised you recieved an interview out of Cooley/Florida Coastal/Regent. That speaks volumes for your drive and persistence.
If you manage your budget wisely, you may even be able to buy a new car (as opposed to used) one day. Hang in there bud...you'll be ok!
Hey dip$hit, it's a "Pioneer" Kuro . . .
413,
Jesus how pathetic am I! I can't even get the name brands right! Good thing they didn't ask that on the LSAT or I wouldn't have even made it into law school probably!!1
-Sad Sack Fourth Tier Reject
You had to take the LSAT to go to Cooley? I thought it was open-enrollment.
Tarbosh, you're mom just called, she says move out and get a job.
"You're mom"? Or, your mom? Either way, Tarbosh is still the idiot.
In case anyone gives two rips...the students who want to achieve at South Carolina can and do. We have one graduate (TODAY thanks) clerking for Shedd on the 4th circuit. We have 4 possibly 5 (including myself) clerking for federal judges. Personally I think the faculty is young and vibrant and may not have the credential to move the law school up the ranks, but they are invested in us and want us to achieve.
For those of you that want to trash Charleston - go for it, I agree. But South Carolina is the flagship institution in this state, and most of us don't even want to start out at big law anyway...and if we end up there good for us.
In case anyone gives two rips...the students who want to achieve at South Carolina can and do. We have one graduate (TODAY thanks) clerking for Shedd on the 4th circuit. We have 4 possibly 5 (including myself) clerking for federal judges. Personally I think the faculty is young and vibrant and may not have the credential to move the law school up the ranks, but they are invested in us and want us to achieve.
For those of you that want to trash Charleston - go for it, I agree. But South Carolina is the flagship institution in this state, and most of us don't even want to start out at big law anyway...and if we end up there good for us.
145 is a liar. That girl is not hot.
This is why people hate attorneys. The sense of self-entitlement emanating from ATL makes me sick....
407: I haven't been to Buffalo but Boston is pretty bad too. Bostonians tend to think it's the greatest place on earth and only get out when it's to go vacation (to FL) or to retire (in FL).
420,
You should be bannished from this board for such a poor 420th comment. Damn
Hofstra is a fine school. We have two associates in our national practice who graduated from the law school. They work hard and, in some cases, harder than others from "higher ranked" programs. They do good work and we have no qualms about hiring Hofstra graduates. These rankings mean very little in practice.
Gonzaga....higher bar pass rate than UW. But...if you plan to live in the area, expect to find out that your buddy working at safeway makes as much or more than you do.
All 200 of these schools have brilliant people working for them. If you are passionate and hard working you will succeed no matter what. Just try and stay away from the herd...
DePaul grad here. . . . DePaul is a good school (it tends to suffer in the rankings because most of its graduates stay in the Chicagoland area). I was for the most part happy with my education there. I have worked on the East Coast for two top 20 law firms post graduation. While DePaul grads are rare out here, I feel my education is respected amongst my peers.
Biggest problem with all schools at this tier is that you must graduate in at least the top 20% to ever make it to big law (top 5% if you don't have connections). In a competitive year, this can make for a stressful 3 year experience.
Santa Clara #85- it's probably the best in the Bay Area- yes I'm including Stanford, Boalt & Hastings in that assessment. Check out the credentials for General Counsel's at Silicon Valley companies.
396--I think US News messed up on Santa Clara's bar passage rate. I think that 69% should be a 79%.
Frankly it's a bit disconcerting that, as far as I know, no one has brought it up.
BWAAHHAA! Anyone who goes to the disgusting rotten festering TOILET known as SETON HALL LAW deserves what they will get. The LAW school is rotten from the top down. It is a shame that this despicable overpriced rathole of a law school ruins the good name of the undergraduate school and of the first US born saint Elizabeth Seton. The board of regents should clean house at this toilet starting with the valvoline dean and his henchwoman.