Looks like dude will not be talking about what happened...

It doesn't take a mentat to deduce that if you fail the bar the first time, you better pass the second time.

What is this guy's name?

This kid is awesome. His emails were pure genius.

Is taking PMBR a must? I'm just signed up for Barbri, and I know they now offer a 5 day MBE Preview and a 3 Day MBE review at the end. In fact, I was told its on the same day as the PMBR courses, so it wouldn't even be possible to do both. Am I gambling by doing that? Should I sign up with Kaplan just to get the books/questions?

Thanks.

I fail to understand why any law firm, particularly a decent firm, would keep an associate after one bar failure, much less two.

Asscociate? You guys are fired.

7 - Agreed. It's like a drivers' exam - if you can't pass it, you're pretty hopeless.

A wise move on his part not to comment so that he can preserve his promissory estoppel/detrimental reliance claim. Quinn Emanuel better lawyer up!

You guys are abolute idiots. Yes, you too, Lat. He is not a "private" figure. He's part of a fricking NEWS STORY. And even if he were a private figure, that doesn't mean you can't print his name. Did you ever once take, you know, a journalism class? First Amendment class?

Considering his writing "style," I'm not surprised that this guy failed the bar twice. If I was a Grader, I would flunk a guy who constantly inserts parathenticals and doesn't know how to capitalize words. He probably went on some ethical/moral diatribe when he answered any essay question. This is why theatre majors should not go to law school and practice law. While it sucks he got fired, I doubt he is really hurting if he utilized his QE salary effectively.

The associate's name is Alex P. Keaton.

but... i promised some buddies that i wouldn't talk about it until after the redskins mascot is changed.

Assuming he's being honest, imagine how sad and pathetic his 'buddies' must be to extract such a promise.

dont take PMBR. Barbri alone is enough.

"If I WAS a grader"? Ouch.
Many well known lawyers failed the bar the first time, for what it's worth. Example: Lewis Powell.

This Too Shall Pass.

The fear of her getting pregnant was the proximate cause of me oustering myself.

How convenient. Quinn Emmanuel sucks donkey dick. Every law firm needs a conscience, whether they want to admit it or not.

As far as failing the bar, are you really telling me that bar exam is ANY indicator of capability as a lawyer. The answer is NO.

- Lawyer Gay

David,

How do YOU know that what motivated the firm to fire him yesterday was the bar exam and not the opinions he shared with his colleagues? Because Quinn Emanuel said so? Sheesh. You should at least cite a source for the statements of fact you make.

Please moderate. We all need to moderate the moderate identity banter here.

Seriously folks, please moderate.

Comment removed by moderator.

The guy is already outed on other sites without such rigorous moderation policies as ATL. Enquiring minds shouldn't have too much trouble finding them.

17 - Lewis Powell failed? He really turned it around in time to get O.J. off the hook.

The guy is probably better off. It's not like working at quinn is such a great thing anyways.

23--what other sites?

gimme an H

Take BarBri seriously, study for a few hours every day, and then several hours every day 1 month before the Bar and you don't need PMBR. This was my course of action and I passed very easily.

gimme an E

"but... i promised some buddies that i wouldn't talk about it until after the redskins mascot is changed"

Now this putz is trolling for promissory estoppel flames.

One reason why people want to know his name is because we want to do our own research on his background to understand how he came to this and whether his problems bear any relation to our own. Your brief account leaves us wondering about these things. I did that research after his name was temporarily posted yesterday, and I'd like to point out that he is not the son of a Goldman Sachs partner, as some have speculated or assumed. Apparently people leaped to this conclusion because there is such a GS partner with the same first and last names and middle initial as QE 1st-year. However, that GS partner has no connection to Iowa and no son with the same name as far as I could tell. QE 1st-year's family in Iowa appears to still be in Iowa. His father died in 2001, while QE 1st-year was at Notre Dame. The father's obituary strongly suggests a middle class upbringing.

7,9:

The CA bar is notoriously hard. Some very smart people have failed, and not just the dean of Stanford Law. The pass rate for February takers was under one-third.

- First-time passer of non-CA bar

this (former) associate is a (huge) failure at life. he should (probably) give up the law (thing).

(true) dat

Comment removed by moderator.

26,

If you're curious, just search for a bunch of relevant terms like Quinn-Emanuel e-mail Native-American Yale and first-year, and these other sites come right up along with ATL.

Apparently, Google search rankings do not take into account the rigorousness of a site's moderation policies.

23

Yale sucks, Harvard sucks, Standford sucks, Columbia sucks

two times and you're out is the standard policy at most firms...has anyone heard of a firm allowing an associate to take it three times?

"In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes."

Andy Warhol, 1968

Most newspapers / TV news organizations only withhold the name of someone involved in a news story if (1) they are a minor; or (2) they are the victim of some sort of sexual assault / rape.

My point? The guy lost any expectation of privacy when he forwarded his poorly worded email to 400+ attorneys. If you're gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough!

40,

What if the subject is a minor in terms of maturity? Does that count?

notwithstanding the merits of termination of employment, everyone here making broad statements based on his FEW emails--that's amateur hour kids. add some substance to your arguments--he certainly did in his emails. and on that note, he's writing is better than yours.

37 - your mom sucks.

I just want to say (considering the publicity this story has gotten (and the (I believe (on the first ATL post (concerning this story)) record number of comments (about the story)) that this associate (considering the situation (especially in light of recent developments)) is (somewhat) entertaining (in the humorous sense) and (in my opinion) should start a blog)).

Even if the first-year's father had worked at Goldman Sachs, it shouldn't take away from his many achievements, including finishing with the second-highest GPA at a major university and obtaining a law degree from the most selective law school in the country.

this kid's lucky his family has money otherwise he would probably have no friends.

agree, atl is lame for now allowing others to post this guy's name.

"Maybe attorneys representing the Washington Redskins will one day be sitting across the table from this guy?"

That's assuming this moron will one day pass the bar. Otherwise he will have to hire legal help before pursuing his legal cause.

Quinn Emanuel should have kept him around to help partners at its satellite office to brush up on their grammar.

39 - Pillsbury let a friend of mine take a third try (passed!) but between the 2d and 3d try the person wasn't an "associate" but a "law clerk" with somewhat less pay, but still doing the same work.

I would have fired him after the first time he failed the bar.

Strike that.

I would have fired him when he clerked because I couldn't stand his lack of capitalization.

45,

You don't understand. He has now failed the exam that tests the minimum compentance of those in his chosen profession.

He is a loser. The other stuff doesn't matter anymore.

This dude is a fuckin tool.

But the real story here is some poor d-bag spent 17 years of his life on a fuckin trademark case and is somehow proud of it...

There isn't enough analysis of the relevant sections of the restatement regarding a potential promissory estoppel claim here.

Maybe the QE associate was drunk when he wrote those emails. We will never know.

I am glad ATL is trying to protect his identity. No one deserves to have their entire career judged by one stupid incident, which is sadly what will happen to him if the entire world only knows him for these childish emails.

31 makes some thoughtful comments. Indeed, the first-year associate has had some interesting things to say in other contexts about film, media, and the United States. I would direct you to them but will respect the non-disclosure policy.

First an imbecilic e-mail to the entire firm, now this.

Further evidence that the primacy of the T14 is undeserved.

For some reason, I am feeling a soft spot for the terminated chap. His email, although entirely inappropriate, was witty, concise and made a point. The lack of grammar throughout his email was a sarcastic ruse which only few folks would understand. At least his command of the English language was better than the foolhardy partner that replied to his email. If that partner had been in my firm, he would have been called into the "war room" for some good ole fashion chastising. QE's inflated record on litigation may fool many clients but not all. This incident, especially the junior partner's reply, will hurt QE in the long run. Terminating this associate, although justified by his inexcusable failure of the bar exam for a second time, should have been tolled instead of coming on the heels of this incident. In my day, I would have wiped my rectum with Bob Raskopf's skills. Nevertheless, it is not something I would boast about in an interoffice email. Indeed poor form for this non-peer firm.

People need to realize that John Quinn himself apparently doesn't use the SHIFT key in his firm emails.

45:

31 here. School grades and degrees are in no sense an achievement. They are, at best, an indication of likelihood of future achievement. In and of themselves they are worthless. The receipt of an A+ or a J.D. or a M. Sc. Lit. Ph. has never fed a child or started a business or won a case. Along the way, the student might or might not have done some original research or writing or creating that has some value, but even that is very unlikely to affect anyone outside the bubble of school. Achievement is taking the skills you've learned in school and doing something real with them. I suspect that QE 1st year's believing that grades and degrees from prestigious schools are achievements is exactly what led to his downfall.

24: yes - the Supreme Court justice (Jr.), not his son. I am not sure of any connection to the O.J. trial. Many other examples of well known lawyers failing the bar exam are out there. That's not to say firms shouldn't fire those who don't pass on the second try, but not everyone who fails the bar the first or second time is doomed.

46--what makes you think QE 1st year isn't gonna do something with his skills? he tried out something a lot of people think is miserable, didn't think worth his time, grabbed some money and decided to leave... poor argument, chap.

54,

I have no problem with ATL's protecting this guy's identity.

I have a problem with ATL's hypocrisy and its utter lack of a moderation policy regarding suicide and homicide (threats or encouragement), homophobia and misogynism, and the whole host of other beyond-the-pale comments rampant on this site.

Will somebody explain to me why we must protect the identity of some narcissistic little rich kid, but it's perfectly OK to encourage another kid who professes to be suicidal to off himself?

23/36

Why is everyone hating on the Yalie? He sounds like a pretty hilarious dude.

55:

31 again. I've read QE 1st year's other writing and disagree strongly with the notion that QE 1st year has said anything interesting on any topic. The other writing was as non-sensical, overblown, and indulgent as in the Redskins emails.

newsflash: 9% of native americans are offended by "redskins" --- NINE PERCENT. and dan snyder didnt sponsor this survey. the super left-leading anneberg center did.

so, please tell me, dear overly-concerned, ridiculously politically correct liberal lawyer friends of mine: why is this such an important issue for you? in a perfect world, i think we would have no native american mascots. but guess what, we dont live in a perfect world. we live one that has evolved over time. GET OVER IT.

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/Downloads/Political_Communication/naes/2004_03_redskins_09-24_pr.pdf

63--agreed

31/59 - Although making money, starting a business, or winning a case may be considered achievements, I think most people would disagree with you that obtaining an advanced degree, expressing a talent, or acquiring an education aren't also achievements. You've really overstated your case.

In any event, would you like it better if I had written "his many talents"?

62 - ATL has explained its comment policy before:

"If you see a problematic comment that you want deleted, please email us (subject line: "Comment Moderation Request"), identifying the specific comment(s) by post title and comment number. Because of the sheer volume of comments posted to ATL, we have adopted this "notice and takedown" procedure to comment moderation, as opposed to full-time, active moderation."

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/01/atl_new_comment_policy.php

I hope things work out for him. He seems like a nice kid from an Iowa farm, if I understood what I read about him.

Not sure where you fuctards get the Goldman connection from. Believe it or not, sometimes people do share a name without being related. (srlsy)

WHY ISN'T ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THE LAYOFFS AT WHITE & CASE???

6,

If your firm is paying for both Barbri and PMBR, go to the PMBR. Otherwise, if you study, Barbri should be more than enough.

The only caveat is that PMBR felt much closer to the real bar in difficulty (barbri seemed much easier).

I know that I am one of thousands of commenters on this case, but I want to get my 2 cents in. I am a 5th yr recently laid off and would trade my right nut to be a first year at Quinn, getting paid $160K to do jack shit.

So this is the best thing to happen to me in 6 months. I have thoroughly enjoyed every aspect of this case and I look forward to further tales to emerge from this young attorney, at a level simlar to Judge Halverson's saga.

58 - That's true, but what's your point? John Quinn is founder/name partner of a successful biglaw firm. What's QE kid done? Oh yes, failed the CA bar.

64,

Unless you are QE 1st year, you are again overstating your case. Mind telling us how you have read all his "other writing"? Or how you know he has never written anything interesting on any topic throughout his academic and legal career?

44 - He has a blog.
It is disturbing.

(e)(e)(e)(k)(!)

62, you are a fascist.

He lost all sympathy and any hope for another job in law when he forwarded a private email to the entire firm. Doesn't matter that it was a partner's, but it certainly doesn't help.

73,

The point is that he is criticized for being unprofessional or annoying in using lowercase but the guy who sets the example for conduct at the firm does the exact same thing.

At the same time, he is criticized for not "fitting in," when his email style conforms to the firm's style.

Is he published in any law or other academic journals?

67:

31 sez, no I've not overstated my case. "Expressing a talent," is encompassed by "original research or writing or creating" within the school bubble, and is likely not worth much. Acquiring an education, is just another way of saying "the skills learned in school," which, along with the degree, are worthless except as the foundation for real achievement. More to the point, if you think your school "achievements" are really achievements, you are setting yourself up for failure like, oh, give me a second, I'll think of an example, maybe someone making an enormous investment in one profession and then bombing out of that profession in the first year, maybe that could happen, but I can't think of a specific example.

Pretty cool if the kid indeed came from relatively humble origins in Iowa.

How do you fail the bar, twice, and get a job at Quinn? Was he blowing one of the partners or were his parents that connected? What an idiot!

The initial victory email was almost as bad. "America's law firm"? Please...

82 - Usually you get your job offer as a 3L. You graduate, you take the bar, you show up at the firm. You get the results from bar exam #1 while at the firm.

If you fail, they will (usually) keep you on and let you try again. But if you fail again, then your days are numbered.

Agreed with 83, sooo corny. Maybe now dork partners will think twice before sending out corny, conceded mass emails, just like I will think twice - at least - when using parentheticals

This concept of "privacy" confuses and infuriates us!

74:

64 ripostes, I'm not QE 1st year, you are. As such, either out yourself and direct us to your rich body of work or put your head under the faucet for a cool refreshing blast of STFU.

@81 - I hope your kidding or being sarcastic. He is a complete and utter failure, how is that "pretty cool"? From what I know, he is not that smart (e.g., failed the bar the first time), he has weak character (e.g., mass emails), he has no disciple (failed the bar second time) and he is definitely anti-social. If anything, that would be a case for an aristocratic system, if I didn't know that he's just some privileged idiot from Iowa

I am sad to learn that maybe he does not come from a ridiculously rich family.

I agree with 62. I actually had not been to this site since the suicide-post, until a friend forwarded me a link to this silliness.
68, that's not enough. Certain threads are obviously going to get more out of control. ATL at the very least could watch those.

82- There are first years at every big firm who've failed the bar. They get hired b/f they take it.

Idiot.

not that smart, 89? which is a more reliable metric of "smart"--the LSAT or the Bar? presumably, this kid aced his LSAT...meanwhile, plenty of people with mediocre LSATs pass the bar on the first try. passing the Bar is about diligence and discipline, not raw intellectual horsepower.

62 / 90 - If you don't like the site and / or the comments, then don't read it / them.

Comments are now hidden. You only see the comments if you affirmatively click on them.

QE = Indian givers.

92- douche- "raw intellectual horsepower"?

dont take PMBR. Barbri alone is enough.

95--intellectual pygmy

-93

94: I do like the comments, often, and there is interesting information here. Don't like them when they are horrendous and directed at particular people, as some past threads have been. Also, even if I don't see them, they are still destructive for real people who are foolish enough to get on ATL's radar (or their families). I'm expressing my opinion that the operators of ATL might be bad people for creating a nasty thing in the world. Not wining because my sensibilities are offended.
You are welcome to disagree.
Cheers,
90

that lowercase thing at quinn would really drive me up a wall

I still think it was a blaze-of-glory situation. He had to know he shat the bed in February and time was short.

97 - what is a "mental midget"? I'll take "ex-associates who use excessive parentheses" for $600.

-95

Dear Ex-Quinn Associate:

You should not bother to take the bar again, find something else to do with your life, and thank God you're out of this profession, because it sucks.

Sincerely,
An associate who was given a substantial assignment today at 5:30 by a partner who knows I'm going on vacation tomorrow.

Good luck!

"Maybe attorneys representing the Washington Redskins will one day be sitting across the table from this guy?"

Wouldn't they need to waive the conflict? I'm too tired to analyze it. Eek!

98: If you think that ATL is "a nasty thing," then you definitely shouldn't read it.

By visiting ATL, you are only increasing its influence, revenue, etc. If nobody read ATL, then this "nasty thing" would go away.

I like ATL and have no problem with the comments. But if I thought it was "nasty," I sure as hell wouldn't read it.

yeah, cmon ellie... we're all scared shitless over our jobs... give us something to be happy about!

Well, it worked out for Jerry Maguire, so the kid should be alright.

Yale... what a TTT.

CMON ELLIE!!! REPOEN THE OTHER POST!!!
JUST FOR A LITTLE!! LET US HIT 1K !!!!!!!!

I'd like to see the Washington Redskins -- i.e., the players -- show this guy their appreciation by gang-tackling him and sitting on his head.

Sounds like he wanted out.

Where is Roxanna's column???? If I don't get my weekly fix of Roxanna's (column) ....

PMBR questions certainly do mimic nuances of the real questions from the MBE far better than BarBri's (which are to the true bar questions as QE1st Year's writing is to John Quinn's), so I think I felt a bit better walking out of the bar. But it should not really make that much of a difference. Learning the founder used to employ Ms. Cleo was a nice added bonus.

Of course, I took both, coming from wealth and it being expected in such classes (my own PMBR class started a supper club), but I got a 175 on my LSAT so it was really superfluous.

I agree with 62 as well.

A law school classmate of mine and former biglaw attorney committed suicide last week, and another attorney I know recently survived an unsuccessful attempt.

This is a genuine problem (think if it happened to one of your friends or relatives), but ATL leaves these posts about killing yourself or other people up for hours or days after complaints are made.

The question, 92, is not whether 90 or I should read this site if posts encouraging suicide offend us, but whether someone like my classmate read it before actually committing suicide.

And besides, a lot of the non-death-related posts are beyond disgusting.

goodnight, sweet prince.

he leaves, Quinn remains.

"Maybe attorneys representing the Washington Redskins will one day be sitting across the table from this guy?"

More like 'standing across the counter from this guy' and waiting for him to get their order right.

Every single positive comment on here is by the first year, plus maybe his roomie and his mom. They all have the same weirdness...

Since Elie implicitly incorporated these comments by reference into the previous thread (in a thinly veiled attempt to further capitalize on the page view windfall QE idiot boy has generated for ATL), I believe the comments have already exceeded 1k.

Lat's policy (and I certainly believe that Lat makes the policy) is to model it like a gossip column, do "blind items" and not do anything that names people without their permission or inclusion in a primary source, so as to not get himself sued. For better or worse, he has clearly considered the suicide issue and I'm sure he is acutely aware of the arguments.

For fuck's sake, if you want a blog with a different comment policy, start your own.

112 - The notion that ATL is causing these unfortunate events is ridiculous. The influence of this one blog should not be exaggerated. How do you know that these people even read ATL?

50: I would have no offered him when he was a summer associate...oh wait...

Typical Ivy League a-hole thinking that whatever comes out of his mouth must be roses when, in fact, it's just self-absorbed bs.

He won't allow the name for the QE first you to be posted on the website in order to protect his privacy. But, what about the privacy of those newly engaged lawyers who this site feels the need to ridicule by pointing out pros and cons of the relationship.

I guess getting engaged means that you have opened up yourself to having your personal life and looks dissected by a fat guy with girl's name.

(And, no, I was not one part of a named couple. I just find it a bit hypocritical.)

On paper, the first year seemed like a smart kid. I'm not sure how he failed the bar twice. I hope I can pass the bar when I'm done with law school.

By the way, can anyone help me out with a job, either for this summer, or when I hopefully graduate? Although my grades are terrible, I did manage to fool a number of you into thinking I was a big time partner at a TTT. That should count for something.

you people who are annoyed by non-caps are retarded. seriously who gives a f u annoying little pukes. u r the reason law school sucks because of people who whine about the dummest shit. its a f'ing inter-office email, its not going to a client. u r probly the same ones that will ignore a hole argument on the interweb bcause someone mispellt a word or didnt use fucking caps. you make me sick. long live PE.

How does ATL know why he got fired? There are people at my firm who've been for years and didn't pass the bar. Even if they do fire people for failing twice, do they bum rush them out of the door and disconnect their phone the next day? I feel no sympathy for this kid but the idea that his Redskins email wasn't a cause of his getting canned is bullshit.

127

Please tell me what firms employ associates and partners that have not yet passed the bar so I know which firms not to use.

~ CHOAM In House Counsel

128--just do a google site search at most big law firms for "not yet admitted".

128--just do a google site search at most big law firms for "not yet admitted".

128--just do a google site search at most big law firms for "not yet admitted".