Simpson Thacher Dishes Out Summer Associate Meal Policies
We’ve been talking for months about how summer associate programs will be scaled back this year. It’s a recession, baby. Frugality is the new black.
Last month, Cleary issued a humorous memo about how to treat its summer associates. It encouraged associates to take SAs out for value meals at McDonald’s, Burger King, and Wendy’s, or better yet, to invite them over for a home cooked meal (“Pair hot dogs with frozen fish fillets for a surf and turf treat.”)
This week, Simpson Thacher & Bartlett issued its real Summer Meal Program memo as its first SAs start at the office on Monday. Things are dramatically scaled back in comparison to prior years, says a tipster:
summer 2007 - unlimited summer lunches
summer 2008 - 15 summer lunches per associate (entire summer) no limits on how many lunches summers attended
summer 2009 - one lunch a week (for associates AND summer)
More details, and the memo, after the jump.
Lots of firms are starting to let associates know the budget for SA entertaining this year. We encourage you to dish on the policies at your firm in the comments.
Simpson Thacher’s lunch spending limit is holding steady at $65 per head, but the frequency of eating out is down.
Rules for the summer lunch program remain similar to past years, but there are changes worth noting. Importantly, we are retaining our cap of $65 per person for lunch. However, both associates and summer associates will be limited to one lunch per week (either traditional or Chow for Charity). Additional opportunities will exist for summer associates to lunch with one another or full time attorneys at departmental lunches, training programs and other in-house activities.
We’re not sure of the full length of Simpson Thacher’s summer program, but it’s certainly shorter than 15 weeks, so associates will likely be indulging less often than in 2008, and SAs will be indulging much less often, as they were unlimited last year.
And no ganging up on the SAs:
Please make every effort to maintain a one to one balance of full-time lawyers and summer associates. If someone drops out creating an imbalance please contact Recruiting to arrange a substitute (or to get prior approval).
See the full memo below.
Earlier: Cleary Encourages ‘Home Cooking’ To Keep Summer Associate Lunch Costs Down
SIMPSON THACHER & BARTLETT INTER-OFFICE MEMORANDUM
TO: All Associates
DATE: May 4, 2009
FROM: The Recruiting Committee
RE: Summer Meal Program
The summer is almost here, and our summer associate class will soon be with us. We are pleased to continue our summer lunch program again this year. Consistent with the themes of moderation and austerity adopted by so many of our clients (and less fortunate peers), we have implemented several changes to policy and practice as compared with prior years, so please review this memo thoroughly.
On May 11 our first summer associates arrive at the firm. We hope that they will get to know many attorneys here at the firm so we encourage you to host meals with summer associates at the Firm’s expense. In particular, we encourage you to host summer associates with whom you may work, as well as any summer associates whom you may have met last fall or those whom you are asked to advise.
The purpose of the summer lunch program is to enable summer associates to meet and get to know their new colleagues at the firm as well as their fellow summer associates. Please lunch with a range of summer associates, and not merely the same summer associates and associates repeatedly. The more attorneys the summer associates get to know, the greater the
likelihood that they will find friends and mentors in the associate ranks, enhancing their experience as summer associates and the development of their careers when they return as full
time attorneys.
Rules for the summer lunch program remain similar to past years, but there are changes worth noting. Importantly, we are retaining our cap of $65 per person for lunch. However, both associates and summer associates will be limited to one lunch per week (either traditional or Chow for Charity). Additional opportunities will exist for summer associates to lunch with one another or full time attorneys at departmental lunches, training programs and other in-house activities.
Details of both the traditional and Chow for Charity program are set forth below.
TRADITIONAL PROGRAM
time after lunch.
receipt on the same day as your lunch.
Accounting will not approve any meal costs without a copy of the Meal Report form previously sent to Recruiting.
CHOW FOR CHARITY PROGRAM - Associates and summer associates can choose to enjoy a less expensive meal and have the Firm donate the balance of the $65 per person meal
reimbursement limit to one of the following charities selected by the lunch participants: Natural
Resources Defense Council, Human Rights First/The Vance Center for International Justice (donation split 50/50), inMotion and Legal Aid. The guidelines are as follows:
GETTING INVOLVED - We know you do not always know in advance when you will be available to host a lunch. For assistance, e-mail “SummerLunch” and someone from Recruiting will attempt to coordinate a meal with available summer associates.
Please note that the Meal Report form has a “Comments” section. In addition to your views on which restaurants work well for these programs, we appreciate any feedback you have relating to the summer program.
If you have any questions, please contact the Recruiting Department, Jamie Gamble or Caroline Gottschalk. We hope you enjoy the program and thank you in advance for your participation.
The Recruiting Committee
cc: All Partners
(163) 
Comments
Comments hidden for your protection. Show them anyway!
Well, at least they *have* a summer associate class to be cheap with. Not so for at least a couple other AmLaw 100 firms.
b
This amazes me...when I was a summer associate in biglaw a few years ago, I was lucky if I got one lunch every TWO weeks, let alone a lunch break to go out and buy myself something. Stop whining, people.
Good thing anorexia negates any desire for me to eat.
Oh wait, my anorexia was brought on by the anxiety of NOT HAVING A JOB.
Summer associates can eat Wendy's, let alone 65$ dollar meals.
Standing Tall
By LL
Sometimes the world looks perfect: Nothing to rearrange.
Sometimes you just, get a feeling like you need some kind of change.
No matter what the odds are this time, nothing’s going to stand in my way.
This flame in my heart, and a long lost friend.
Gives every dark street a light at the end.
Standing tall, on the wings of my dream.
Rise and fall, on the wings of my dream.
The rain and thunder. The wind and haze.
I’m bound for better days. It’s my life and my dream,
Nothing’s going to stop me now.
simpson thacher is sooooo ghetto
3- where the hell did you work?
Back in the good ol days of the early to mid 2000s, I had to implement a tuesday / thursday lunch time running club to avoid packing on the pounds.
When I was a summer associate in Biglaw, I had so many lunches and dinners that I gained 25 pounds and developed diabetes. It was awesome.
Better yet - you are grossing $3K a week, buy your own damn luxury lunch.
As exciting as Simpson Thacher summer lunch policy is, can Elie get on the whole "Sidley Pro Bono Assistance Program" thing- ie they emailed their entire incoming summer class a 75K pro bono "option"
wed all really like to know just how optional this pay cut is.
Indeed, STB is ghetto.
Any chance that crap like this will hit my V5 SA program? I just got here man, I want my chance to feed at the trough.
they should just change their name to Wilson Elser Motherfather Edelsomethingorother Dipshit
1, what AmLaw 100 firms have eliminated their summer program?
$65 per person? I am just going to go to Taco Bell once a week and get $65 in Gift Certificates to sustain me for 3L year.
Foes anyone know what is going on at Fish & Richardson???
Clever headline. That's how I knew it wasn't an Elie post.
look on the bright side you ingrateful slobs, instead of shipping these jobs to overseas, they're importing the overseas standard of living right to your door.
hahaahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahaahahaha
simpson thacher is like ole' dirty bastard from wu-tang
Unlike the Cleary summer lunch memo, which at least appeared to be in jest, this is obviously a real policy for STB. For a first tier firm, this indicates that STB may not be as healthy as everyone assumes. What is the financial story on STB?, is work down?, PPP down?
who gives a shit.
90something % of law students (including most 1st tier) never got the royal treatment at their summer jobs. stop whining over no more lunch at . It was retarded before. a symptom of the attitude that the firms allowed themselves when getting paid for making fake $ on wallstreet. schmucks. You don't do real work and you don't deserve your fillet.
OCEANS RISE
CITIES FALL
BUY YOUR OWN DAMN LUNCH
No firm is as cheap as McDermott Will & Emery. Remember the coffee?
ATTT least they haven't banned ass poundings.
kashmir - thanks for posting this. I was having trouble deciding between STB and joining a friend's solo practice. Your post made my decision a whole lot easier.
How does STB's lunch program qualify as news, but their London office stealing a huge M&A partner doesn't? Where do you think the money for lunches comes from?
Priorities ATL!
Let's put this in perspective just a little bit. Let's say the STB summer program is 12 weeks. One lunch, $65 per week. That's $780, just for a few lunches. $780 is greater than per-capita annual income for many developing companies. Chew on that!
p.s. This years's summers should be glad they are getting paid anything at all. The only reason firms are doing anything is for prestige -- left to the invisible hand of the market, you'd all be getting the invisible finger of subsistence-pay internships.
I saved a ton of money when the firms bought my lunch...$12 per day x 5 days a week x 10 weeks = $600 in savings! So it's only about 1 day's worth of pay at $3k per week...it's still nice to save a little dough...
I am a new 2L SA who started on Wed (early, I know). The associates here are in a super bad mood, especially the ones that I had been really friendly with since last fall. So far, no one will give me the time of day, no less work to do. I didn't expect to be busy right out of the gate, but I at least thought that I would have something to do. Is this what I can expect for the rest of the summer?
Someone email Jamie Gamble and Caroline Gottschalk and tell them to keep their stinking food stamps.
This is hilarious. I summered at Baker and Hostetler and we always paid for our own lunches. Now Simpson's lunch policy is practically on par with Baker's? The sky is officially falling.
@29 -- Yes...and you should definitely spend your unoccupied time dogging on the firm...that is how to get a job in this market. Given that very few SA's have started yet, your anonymity is assured...
Didn't other V10 firms go to once a week lunches years ago? I could have sworn my friends who went to DPW had a similar limit.
Honestly, and I hate to say this, but this is actually a serious problem.
Summer lunches usually eat up, no pun intended, about a 1/3 if summer associates hours. Without lunches, and without work, summer associates are going to be sitting at their desks all day surfing the internet and bored to tears.
On the other hand, that's what associates are doing, so I don't know that there is much that can be done about it.
Big funkin waaah! You have to pay for your own meals.
Quit yer bitchen you entitlement teat sucking hacks!
Are you allowed to have lunch together and pay for your own meals?
29 is a lying sac of feces. SAs haven't started yet.
The ship be sinking...
This would be notable, were it not for the fact that lunches with partners are exempted. I probably averaged about one non-partner lunch per week over the course of two summers. Granted, the people who view the summer associate program as an excuse to eat lunch every day, rather than a real job, will be somewhat curtailed by this policy.
really?
I probably on went out to lunch a 1 or 2 times a week when I was a summer there. They have mandatory "get to know the firm" lunches once a week; optional learn about a department or CLE lunches every day; and an amazing, subsidized cafeteria.
Summer lunches provide an excellent opportunity to get to know the new young men joining the firm. I recall having some lovely all-boys lunches at the 21 Club with summer associates. I would always don my most closely fitted trousers before any such occasion.
Given Simpson's cost cutting initiatives, I am not sure it can still be considered to be a peer firm of mine.
$65 per person, is this a joke.
That's like a week of lunch, for regular people.
You are all so fucked.
36, you can't be too bright...No, the firm would that for no discernable reason whatsoever.
What was the deal with S&C's policy from the S&C thread a few days back? $500 per associate for the whole summer? For a firm with a 12 week program, that's far stingier than Simpson's rule, no?
The whining about "entitled youngsters" has officially come full circle: 3 and 35 have both told people to "quit whining," BEFORE ANYONE EVEN STARTED WHINING. Preemptive grouchiness from nervous/angry associates.
*shakes fist; yells at kids to get off the damn lawn*
Is a graduating 3L I have now had two summers full of lunches. While it was nice to meet the associates and it was great to try out all the good spots I thought it was kind of crazy. I would have been just as happy eating with the other summers a couple days a week, or even grabbing lunch at my desk and checking my personal email. I did feel like there was work to do and sometimes a two hour lunch was a bit much.
I figure there were about 100 SAs at my firm last summer. If each was with 1 lawyer then there were 200 people out to lunch a day. We had a $50 limit. So that was $10,000 a day, $50K a week, or $600K for the 12 week summer.
In other words two associates could still have jobs right now if we could have bought our own lunches with our $3K a week salary (or PPP could go up $3 or something like that).
36: Most firms do not allow that for obvious reasons.
34 - As an associate working like mad right now, I can't wait for the additional hands on deck - limited skills and all.
Any ideas on what Orrick's policy is?
Simpson is a class act, and this memo is further evidence of that.
Also, their Chow for Charity is a great program and I cannot believe it got *bad* press a few years ago instead of the *great* press it deserved.
-Former Simpson summer (turned down the firm, but still respects it greatly)
48: it's a slippery slope.
7:
Jack's old place.
"who gives a shit.
90something % of law students (including most 1st tier) never got the royal treatment at their summer jobs."
i'd say about 10% of us?
$65 a person is insane! Seriously what are you people eating? You could eat at a decent restaurant 3 times a week for less than that!
$65 a person is insane! Seriously what are you people eating? You could eat at a decent restaurant 3 times a week for less than that! So much for cost cutting.
Most first tier students DID get the royal treatment. I know I did. That said, it's a brave new world. People should just be have to be summering at good firms and hopefully getting offers. And I think most will be.
Oceans Rise.
Cities Fall.
Student Loans Remain.
54: of course, you have to define your terms.
Should read "should just happy to be summering..."
-57
1. Stop saying, "After the jump." It's really dated. You sound like your Dad desperately trying to sound "hip" in front of your friends. http://tinyurl.com/bsre6c
2. Only entitled, school-only/no life experience, born-with-a-silver-spoon-up-my-ass wannabe attys would complain about $65 SA lunches that would buy many families in this country a week's worth of groceries.
ATL hasn't posted yet about Kirkland's start dates? November is not too bad!
The cake is a lie.
36 - can you be more of a loser? You're the guy that needs to kick a hundred to the doorman before there is even a line.
Lunch with summers is for poors and if you just want to bang one of them, well, you probably think that's prestigious too.
They are still subsidizing our gym memberships at Equinox across the street. I guess this means, with all the meals cut out, I won't be putting on that summer associate weight.
Does the $65 include dessert? Unclear from the memo.
#39 - you sound lovely.
I know you need to hold an SA’s hand when they try to do legal work, but you would think, after 25+ years of life, they could manage eating without needing to refer to a memo.
How can I get crab cakes, lopster bisque, the filet, and a baked Alaska for only $65?!
I'm gonna starve.
people act like taking summers to lunch is a good thing.
i'd rather bill those hours and, i don't know, have a life outside the firm
Hey Kashmir your HOT HOT.....
I recognize that now is probably the worst time to raise concerns such as this.
That being said, based on the policies of 2007 and 2008, I'm wondering whether it might be said that Summer Associates and Associates might have relied on previous policies and thus expected to have more free lunches this summer.
Assuming this is the case, might there be any recourse here? I'm trying to think creatively here, but nothing is coming to mind right now.
Its not just about the food. When you meet an associate at some event for five minutes you can no longer say "hey lets set up lunch" so that you can get to know them better. Associates are busy so are not going to want to go get lunch with summer associates if the firm is not paying. Even if the firm implemented a rule where there was only one $65 lunch a week but also $25 lunches the rest of the week that would help SAs get to know people in the firm a lot better.
73: Awww, that's adorable.....
When I started in this business over 40 years ago, my mentor told me "lunch is for wimps." Here is a tip for summer associates. In this dour economy, you will have to stand tall above your other colleagues if you want to get the job offer. My recommendation is to skip lunch all summer. Show the brass you put the firm above your own interests. Develop an emaciated gulag prisoner look and you will be a lock for an offer. An associate who skips lunch just to bring me that extra billable hour is a workhorse asset. Summer associates will be watched this summer. Be careful. That unnecessary meal you eat may cost you an offer.
72,
You may be thinking about the reliance principles that are set forth in substantial decisional law, as well as Section 90 of the Restatement (Second) of Contracts. This type of approach may be a little "out of the box," but if anyone wants to chime in with litigation strategy thoughts (particularly our law student ATL community members), I think we can start a healthy exchange of ideas.
STB always has awesome summer events so they'll make it up to their summers that way.
STB always has awesome summer events so they'll make it up to their summers that way.
This is a repost as I did not sign in earlier.
When I started in this business over 40 years ago, my mentor told me "lunch is for wimps." Here is a tip for summer associates. In this dour economy, you will have to stand tall above your other colleagues if you want to get the job offer. My recommendation is to skip lunch all summer. Show the brass you put the firm above your own interests. Develop an emaciated gulag prisoner look and you will be a lock for an offer. An associate who skips lunch just to bring me that extra billable hour is a workhorse asset. Summer associates will be watched this summer. Be careful. That unnecessary meal you eat may cost you an offer.
72 - You may want to check some secondary sources for such a novel argument. I'm thinking that I saw something like that covered in the Restatement (2d) of Contracts, but I'm unable to recall the section.
all of you complaining are idiots. as a firm, what do you say to your clients if they are laying off people and having to cut costs and yet you keep on spending like nothing has changed. you losers need to get lives.
Idiots, the SA who will get hired is the one who has lunch with partners. The only loop hole in the memo is that lunches with Partners; do not count towards the lunch cap.
3- What firm? Certainly not a V-50 firm. In 2005, my firm (low in the V-50) paid for every...single...lunch for the entire summer.
Idiots, the SA who will get hired is the one who has lunch with a Frim Partnes. The only loop hole in the memo is that lunches with Partners; do not count towards the lunch cap.
45, yes. Sullivan & Cromwell is $500 an associate for the whole summer, including amounts paid for the summers.
I don't know how this website picks which stories to run. S&C's policy is far stingier than Simpson's. Heck, I heard Davis Polk had Simpson's policy already before the downturn.
Do they allow lunches where you eat something other than food?
84: I'd like to meet this Frim Partnes of whom you speak. Do you have his contact information? Is he Albanian, by chance?
83:
See comment 53. It was, at the time, a V-60 firm, I believe.
86 - last summer sometimes we had lunch at the driving range. The firm didn't care as long as we were under the limit.
I heard of some pedicure lunches too...
So Simpson Thacher is cutting costs, laying off associates and staff, and now they are scaling back on the summer associate program. This looks like they are not doing too well.
Fewer lunches means fewer opportunities to bed a summer associate. A sad day for America.
87--My Braille keyboard doesn't work so well probably much like you.
what a stupid program. what about having a $15 per head max and letting them go out as much as they want. It would cost the same and its not like many of the associates don't have the time....that is unless they are actively trying to demotivate summers to come to the firm.
This is nothing, STB summers. Wait until half of you get no-offered, then you'll really have something to cry about.
"Sullivan & Cromwell is $500 an associate for the whole summer, including amounts paid for the summers."
That's madness. You go get a burger and a soda at a pub on Stone Street, its $20-25 per person after tax and tip.
84, 87: "Frim" is a Yiddish word meaning, "religious" (keeps kosher, doesn't work on Saturday). Don't know if that's relevant, but it's a neat word to know in any case.
"Partnes" is either a typo, or a bad attempt to imitate some kind of ethnic accent.
When I was summering with Big Law we knew how to stretch a dollar. We'd hit up places like Olive Garden for free salad and breadsticks plus the never-ending bowl of pasta. Or we'd take a ride down to Red Lobster for the all you can eat shrimp specials. Don't even get me started on the hour plus lunches at Long John Silvers. Those waitresses really knew how to refill a glass of iced tea.
Ain't nobody takin my lunch away, I'll shake down my summa associates fo dey lunch money befo I would go hungry.
People need to compare apples with apples. All the "we never did $65 lunches at my 125-lawyer firm in Philadelphia!" need to stop: quite frankly, you're not comparable.
That said, among the NY firms with high PPPs, the lavishness of the summer program did vary. I think the "One lunch per week" rule has been in operation at DPW for a few years now (i.e., before the market crash). The issue is that the firms that have had the most lavish summers--Kirkland, Latham, Skadden, Simpson--are the same firms that have been hit hard.
Let's recap:
Couple years ago Davis Polk implements lunch policy of roughly 10 lunches per summer $60 cap. Not reported by ATL.
Few weeks ago Sullivan announces a $500 for the ENTIRE SUMMER cap ($41 a week). Not reported on ATL.
Simpson cuts back to more lunches than DPW and a 50% higher total amount than S&C, and they are the ones who are in trouble?
I was at a satellite office of a V20 firm and once took a summer to lunch and ended up paying $120 for 3 people. The firm immediately set forth a new policy of $25 per person for lunch. This was 2006, in the middle of the boom. I'd hate to see what their policy is now.
It's great for Simpson Thacher associates that their summer lunch reimbursement program this year is once again going to be so much more generous than its peer firms (like SullCrom, DPW, etc.). I wish I were summering at STB.
The limits on the associates make sense because this year the ratio of associates to SAs is so much higher. That said, you'd think with a smaller summer class this year we would be able to afford to treat the summers as well as in previous years. Then again, our partners don't give a shit about associate happiness.
newsflash: associates hate taking billable time out to eat lunch and answer you're shoo shoo retarded flu questions anyway.
Hooray for one lunch a week!
Interesting story, but can we talk about the 9% unemployment rate and when it will hit double digits?
Why isn't ATL on this? Hope, Change?
99: and yet, those of us who don't live in New York are free to mock the concept of a $65 lunch. In my midwestern (non-Chicago) city, I sincerely doubt it is even POSSIBLE to pay $65 for a lunch for 1, excluding alcohol of course.
Last I checked DPW's limit was $75 per person, twice a week. But the twice a week limit isn't actually enforced.
It will be interesting to see how many summer associates will get a "cold offer" this year (that is you get an offer on the paper but they encourage you orally to search for opportunities elsewhere).
105: there's unemployment? Where?! I thought Blahmah cured all societal ills. HA!
How long should SAs wait before demanding a raise? Is two weeks a good rule of thumb?
It will be interesting to see how many summer associates will get a "cold offer" this year (that is you get an offer on the paper but they encourage you orally to search for opportunities elsewhere).
Look people, at S&C it's $500 per _associate_ for the summer. IE, each associate can go on about 7-8 summer lunches. There are no limits on the SAs, who will be just a coddled as usual.
Honestly, Summers who search out lunches all the time in the past were frowned on. no one said anything to them mostly, but we all knew who were the food whores. You shouldn't be going to more than 1 or 2 lunches per week anyways. You have the training lunches, etc that have free food and show you're interesting learning, etc. I suggest all incoming summers consider this, especially in this economic downturn. It is not rude to turn down a lunch at a fancy place for a training lunch or because you have work to do.
What happens if you accept a cold offer? Can you just show up to work in a year and pretend that nothing happened, Constanza style?
For all you boys and girls truly worried about the implications of this policy for your future employment:
The Marines will provide you with lunch, breakfast AND dinner every day of the week.
"If you want to be one of the boys, stay with the boys. We are looking for a few good men."
Professor Emeritus, it's good to know that your mentor was Gordon Gecko.
#10 -- what are you talking about w/ Sidley's pro bono option????
Why not a column about the firms that are doing well right now? They're out there, and law.com has written a few things on this.
I'm grading a batch of 70 first year essay fact-pattern exams and about 5 folks have written something to the effect, "This question was impossible," at the very end.
How should I handle this? About 1/3 of the class nailed the question, more or less. Another 1/3 performed credibly. The bottom third was a bit of a zoo.
The question didn't involve Rest. 90, which would have been easy to grade- except for the injustice prong, which kills everyone. (It's not Contracts, anyway, but that wouldn't stop someone from showing off.)
I'm thinking of attaching the best answer and the median answer to the back of the Random Person's exams. Should I deduct points on style grounds or let it be?
I think this Random Person is Navin R. Johnson, by the way.
I love how so many people are complaining about people whining about this, when very few (if any) posts seriously whined about the new policy.
That said, when I was a summer (at STB), I rarely had time for lunch more than once a week anyway. It was also incredibly hard to find associates with time to take summers on a 3 hr lunch. Well, except for the lonely ones who kept taking the female summers.
The reason Chow for Charity got bad press is because it was misunderstood and the firm did a poor job of explaining/structuring it. If they had donated IN THE NAME of the SA it would have transferred ownership to the summers. Instead they were seen as putting limitations on their OWN donations to charity.
At my AtlanTTTa firm 2 years ago, i paid for my own lunch only twice during the entire 12 week summer. But then again, I was stuck in atlanta.
121- Why pay,,,couldn't you just pick up the road kill as well?
112, you are wrong.
S&C's limit is per associate, including amounts paid for summers they take out. That is not 7-8 summer lunches unless you're talking Burger King, and there are limits on the summer associates in the sense that all the money paying for them is coming from this limited pool. Assuming each associate only takes out 1 summer at a time, which was not the case in the past, and that each spends 60 on lunch, with a total of 120, that's just about 4 lunches for the entire summer.
I do not think the summers are going to be coddled just like they were in past years.
Why wine and dine summer associates this year? With the deferral offered to this year's class anyway, not many of these guys will receive offers anyway.
Lots of people during my summer caught cold offers, it was no big deal.
Summer: I want a hamburger...No, a cheeseburger! I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake.
Firm: You'll get nothing and like it!
Associates at STB have hardly any work to do now, so they will try to go out for as many lunches as possible.
I agree with #10, let's get some coverage on Sidley's incoming associate deferment program.
Hey Simpson, I'd lay off the snide "less fortunate peers" comment, since in the same sentence you are claiming to adopt the austere measures of those same firms.
Also, I can understand limiting associates to 1 lunch per week, but limiting SAs to 1/week? That is slumming.
the lunches were the only highlight of my biglaw summer, and you better believe i went out every damn day. and yes it took me a year to lose all the weight i gained in twelve weeks, but it delighted me to know that i got a nice paycheck and great meals for a relaxing summer without having to ever have to work in that hellhole.
My balls are a good lunch.
"less fortunate peers"... Yeah, right, it's not like STB did not have to layoff associates to maintain their high PPP...
129 - yeah. the less fortunate peers remark is really obnoxious.
It's hilarious because Simson IS a less fortunate peer. I've said it before and I'll say it again:
The Real V10
WLRK
S&C
Cravath
DPW
Cleary
Paul Weiss
Debevoise
Covington
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn
96:
Actually, the word you are looking for is "frum."
134, blatant Gibson Dunn trolling.
Who eats all of this food anyway. It's too much
PE = Paralegal Extraordinaire
Hey, where you frum?
The DPW rumors reported in the comments are false. There is no one summer lunch per week limit, and has not been for the years I have been associated with the firm.
140, are you an associated associate?
♠135 I think it is also Frim
Let's just hope nobody does anything rash after hearing this news, if you know what I mean.
STB only has 60-odd summers in NY so those SAs don't have to worry about cold offers. At the firms that have way oversubscribed classes, on the other hand...
Cake or Death?
134, S&C no longer belongs on that list.
Uh, cake please.
Is complaining the new black? Does it prove you are at least in the league of entitled folks who still expect things to be given to them? And when they're not, you are taken aback? Oh my! And this demonstrates what, exactly? You sound like a bunch of only children, raised on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, Dalton educated,
and now aghast that you would be downgraded on lunch. Gee, this problem deserves a column in the style section at least.
DALTON!!!
Only TTTs live at home
- Dougie Rockerfeller XVII. Andover ' 02; Princeton '06; YLS '09; Posner Clerk.
148- you wrote:
"You sound like a bunch of only children, raised on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, Dalton educated,
and now aghast that you would be downgraded on lunch. Gee, this problem deserves a column in the style section at least."
This is completely amazing, because,I am
(1)an only child,
(2)UES raised,
(3) and yes, a Dalton alum.
(4) And I'm going to be summering at a V10 this summer.
While I'm sure life was more fun when you went to lunch every day, I'm not working a summer job to eat lunch, I'm working a summer job to get a job-job. So, meh.
Sorry, i know this isn't profound, I was just delighted that I was the living embodiment of someone's entitlement paradigm.
132: Simpson has not been laying off associates. I went through all departure memos that were sent over the past 12 months and there are only 4 or 5 who left with no job (including those who left for a really crappy job suggesting that they have been laid off). That's in a whole YEAR.
148, only poors and middle class are impressed by going out to nice NYC lunches and think that this is a big deal.
125 - underrated.
I wasn't the first, but I posted earlier about DPW's "one SA lunch per week" rule.
I interviewed at DPW but did not accept a summer associate offer, so I have no first hand knowledge. But I did ask about associates about this "policy" when I made a second (post-offer) office visit. I also asked a 3L who had spent the summer in DPW's NY office. And everyone said that the one lunch rule was in effect--or at least, it was the norm.
Now, I don't think that's a big deal either way. But perhaps it's a little unfair for STB to be faulted for being a little stingy, when some other NYC firms with high PPP have been stingy all along. (And you can see that just by comparing associate benefits.)
Actually, 148, complaining ABOUT complaining is the new black. Congratulations!
The fact that there are students or associates that expect more than one lunch a week is a symptom of the larger problem -- an attitude of entitlement. You are making a ton of cash this summer -- buy your own lunch. Or better yet, buy an attorney lunch. The bargaining position has changed. Act like it.
I just looked at our brochure of summers. I am sure some of them are great, but I really have no interest in getting to know them. Part of me feels that I don't care if they like the firm, if they have a great experience, or anything else. My plan is to keep myself busy.
Those who still doubt that Simpson is laying off are incredibly naive. They should read more posts on ATL to wake up to the hard truth: Simpson is laying off, whether you like it or not.
157: Out of curiosity, what does this "brochure of summers" entail? I assume that it is more than just photos... Is there information about each student in the brochure, taken off of the students' resume? I realize that all firms are different but am curious what Simpson tells its associates about the incoming summers.
159 - not at simpson, but at our firm it's just their pics and names. It's the same facebook the summers get of all the associates at the firm.
158: Stop making stuff up. Simpson hasn't been laying off other than for redundancies meant solely to replicate ordinary course attrition in a market downturn.
I find it astonishing that only 39 and 82 have noted that lunches with partners are exempt from the 1/week limit. I don't know about other summer associate programs, but I know mine involved plenty of lunches with partners. Assuming 2 training/informational sessions, 1 lunch with a partner, and 1 lunch with an associate, that leaves the summer associates, with, gasp, one lunch per week to themselves! People in my summer associate class didn't want huge lunches every day, and sometimes we really had work to get back to. We liked having the occasional opportunity just to grab a fast-food salad.
151 - The departure memo is not mandatory -- some associates have left without sending out the memo.