Skadden Summers: Welcome to the New Market
Class of 2010 start dates pushed to 2011.
Summer associates started at Skadden yesterday, and it doesn’t look like the firm hid the ball when it came to talking about market realities. We have news about expected offers and start dates for the class of 2010 — and it’s not even Memorial Day.
At one of the summer associate welcome meetings, summers were told something like “the offers are there, but you have to earn it.” At that point, the collective sphincter-tightening among summers in the room made an audible noise. As one summer puts it:
They said the usual bs about how if they brought us in it’s cuz they wanna offer us, how we’re not competing against each other, there’s room for everyone, etc, But what wasn’t said is as remarkable as what was said. They didn’t point out the 98 percent offer rate the year before, they didn’t even ever explicitly say they expect to give most of us offers. They only said that we’re all eligible to earn an offer based on merit, as every year. The room got VERY quiet and awkward the whole time the guy was speaking, and other partners felt the need to interject with reassurances throughout.
But other sources have told Above the Law that Skadden does plan on making offers commensurate with previous years. The specific “you have to earn it language” was apparently on a PowerPoint slide — the same slide that is shown every year. We’ve heard rumblings that some firms will have summer offer rates of 50% or less, but none of that talk is coming from Skadden. Our understanding is that Skadden fully expects its offer rate to remain unchanged.
So, as long as you can breathe out of your nose instead of your mouth, things should be okay.
But after you get your offer, when can you start? After the jump, we have a clear indication from Skadden.
Above the Law has been able to confirm that current Skadden summers will not be able to start with the firm until 2011 at the earliest.
Sources at the firm report that the idea was to let summers know as early as possible that they would have to come up with something else to do between graduating from law school in 2010 and starting with the firm.
So get those clerkship applications rolling, kids.
The other benefit of knowing that you can’t start until 2011 is that you can build public interest relationships over the summer. Skadden partners are available to help people find these opportunities, but doing quality pro bono work over the summer could also lead to an important long-term connection summers can take advantage of after law school graduation.
Of course, the message from Skadden is one of the clearest indications that the class of 2010 will be in a very similar situation to the class of 2009. But at least they’ll have more time to adjust.
Skadden sources we spoke with told us that it was too early to tell when in 2011 new associates would join the firm, or what kind of deferral stipends will be available to those incoming first-year associates.
But it is not too early to for summers to start thinking about their own futures. They are likely to get full-time offers from Skadden, but that alone will not translate into immediate post-graduate employment.
At least everything is out in the open.




Comments
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fitsty
You're welcome!
first balls deep
Wow - you'll have to earn the job. It's about fookin time!!!
The first female summer to deny me the right of Anus Poundus will be summarily dismissed.
N. Wacker Stud
just forget about other firms - get out those shingles folks
Good luck to the SkaTTTen summers.
I like the way this summer associate says "they said the USUAL bs".. you have been there for two days now.. and i really do not see why this guy expects the firm to emphasize on the offer rate, even if it were indeed very high? to make sure that the SAs feel even more entitled? so they are even lazier and rowdier than they normally are?
This is why I hate summer associates.
I read articles like this and I thank my lucky stars every day that I took a long, hard look at my life, left Big Law after 10 years, and and took a job as a trial attorney with the federal government early last year.
If a PowerPoint is causing great stress, then you need to think about how much they own your ass. 2200 hours? You'll work it to keep that job. oh, you'll bitch about it to your friends...but every time they put a pile of steaming poo in front of you, well, you're going to eat it.
Screw that. Get while the gettings, er, kind of good.
This sounds exactly like what Skadden told summers during the last downturn (2003), and the firm still made room for the immortal Jonas Blank. In other words, summers, get ready to be busy "doing jack shit":
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/06/30/030630ta_talk_mcgrath
I'd rather be dancing in the pale moonlight on the desert in Arrakis with Face Dancers out for my life instead of being a summer associate at Skadden.
Skadden, acting with class and professionalism during hard times. Unlike K&L Gates.
Law students...complaining about having to earn something? You don't say! Yes, you'll have to lay off the booze and the weed this summer and actually produce a workable memo once or twice. Oh...god no!
The sound you heard int he room was not just sphincters clamping down, it was the crackle of synapses firing at the realization that the entitlement train is off the tracks.
Welcome to the real world you schlubs!
Look, this is getting a bit ridiculous. Yes, guess what? You may have to actually earn a job. Earning is what we in the working world like to equate to putting in the effort, showing you are a good employee, and being worth the time, effort, and pay. Why are we so aghast at the fact that fresh-out-of-college 2L morons won't be given $80 lunches everyday? Do what the rest of us do: buy a freaking sandwich. This is exactly why other generations call ours the "expectation generation." Get your head out of your ass and do some work. For those of us who go to school at night and work during the day, it's embarassing to be associated with whining full-time students. Go to wikipedia and type in "perspective." Yeah yeah, Wikipedia has errors, but it's a good starting point for you.
Was there any actual content in this story?
SKADDEN blah blah blah blah SKADDEN blah blah blah blah blah blah SKADDEN
Look, this is getting a bit ridiculous. Yes, guess what? You may have to actually earn a job. Earning is what we in the working world like to equate to putting in the effort, showing you are a good employee, and being worth the time, effort, and pay. Why are we so aghast at the fact that fresh-out-of-college 2L morons won't be given $80 lunches everyday? Do what the rest of us do: buy a freaking sandwich. This is exactly why other generations call ours the "expectation generation." Get your head out of your ass and do some work. For those of us who go to school at night and work during the day, it's embarassing to be associated with whining full-time students. Go to Wikipedia and type in "perspective." Yeah yeah, Wikipedia has errors, but it's a good starting point for you.
Look, this is getting a bit ridiculous. Yes, guess what? You may have to actually earn a job. Earning is what we in the working world like to equate to putting in the effort, showing you are a good employee, and being worth the time, effort, and pay. Why are we so aghast at the fact that fresh-out-of-college 2L morons won't be given $80 lunches everyday? Do what the rest of us do: buy a freaking sandwich. This is exactly why other generations call ours the "expectation generation." Get your head out of your ass and do some work. For those of us who go to school at night and work during the day, it's embarassing to be associated with whining full-time students. Go to Wikipedia and type in "perspective." Yeah yeah, Wikipedia has errors, but it's a good starting point for you.
Skadden, acting with class and professionalism during hard times. Unlike K&L Gates.
16, 18, 19
You, sir, are a douchenozzle.
And more than a bit ridiculous.
Things have been busy, but it’s good to be back. For those getting deferred don’t feel too bad. I used to start work in September but then I got deferred until January and it worked out for the best.
19 - I think the problem is that "earning it" is really code for "we can only afford to hire 50% no matter how awesome you are."
Taking what firms tell summers at face value is a little naive, but maybe that's just me.
If this is news to you, raise your hand. Thanks, you're dinged. Next!
DAMMIT! I saw Skadden in the headline I thought "finally Skanned is laying off people in DC, yay!" ...but, noooo, just a lame article about lameass grads getting paid to not work.
What asshat tipsters. Like they know what the usual BS is. Even when offers are at 98%, they don't come out and say it during an all hands meeting. Why not just say - go out, get drunk, hook up with each other, and have fun - we'll hire you anyway. It doesn't work that way, even when it's true.
Morons. Wake up.
lulz way to change the headline to be more sensational. summer update not generating enough interest? let's call it "first deferral announcement of 2010" instead! rock the boat, elie, rock the boat.
1st year salaries to 120!
I think summers are cool with the idea of working for their jobs, but it does kind of suck for them to already know they won't even have a shot at working until 2011.
26 -- I think the tipster is upset because Sidley and Kirkland both guaranteed 100% offers and advised everyone to go out, get drunk, hook up with each other, and have fun. Come on SkaTTTen!! Step up to the plate.
When I practice shield fighting with Gurney Halleck, if I fight one whit below my abilities, he’ll give me a good scar to remind me. Skadden grunts should be glad their scars are only on the inside when the partners are done with them.
Yesterday a summer associate left the office at 5:30PM. His lack of dedication already has my mind made up that he will not be getting an offer at the end of the summer. Day two and a no offer has been sealed. I offer this true anectdote as a lesson for you insufferable summer associates that are desperately jockeying for an offer at the end of the summer. Whatever you do, do not be the first summer associate to leave the office at the end of the day.
I would worry more about being a summer at a firm known for stealth layoffs. Even if you do a great job all summer, you will be denied an offer for "performance related" reasons....and then you're screwed for next year too. Fun, Fun, Fun!!!!!
Is it common for these firms to hire people as 2Ls and then guarantee them all, sight unseen, starting jobs after graduation...before they do any work? Is this lala land?
33: in this economy, even if you get a cold offer after your 2L summer you are screwed.
16, 18, 19 speaks wisely. 21 is an idiot.23 is on crack if he thinks that more than 50% of any summer class is worth hiring on an objective scale.
And PE actually has something to say that is worth noting.
32
You sound like a major-league dick.
I hope you get eaten by Shai-Hulud.
If a Skadden SA is caught, or even suspected of, farting in the elevator, they will NOT receive an offer. I am dead serious.
If a Skadden SA is caught, or even suspected of, farting in the elevator, they will NOT receive an offer. I am dead serious.
If a Skadden SA is caught, or even suspected of, farting in the elevator, they will NOT receive an offer. I am dead serious.
I can't believe that those evil partners do not intend to make offers to an unreasonably high number of inexperienced law students that have never demonstrated any real legal skill. The audacity of them cutting firm expenses to actually derive a profit. Who cares if there isn't enough work and what clients are out there are demanding that low level associates stay away from their files.
And sorry about the multiple posts (16, 18, 19); typical gov't computer freeze-up.
I can't believe that those evil partners do not intend to make offers to an unreasonably high number of inexperienced law students that have never demonstrated any real legal skill. The audacity of them cutting firm expenses to actually derive a profit. Who cares if there isn't enough work and what clients are out there are demanding that low level associates stay away from their files.
Firms aren't going to toss around cold offers like they have in the last few years. They don't want to run the risk that people will accept them in desperation.
Also, there's a big difference in telling future employers that you aren't a great fit, but still got an offer and being forced to explain that why a firm said you suck.....like night and day.
It's all about the reputttation of the firm. Sorry kids.
36 -- riiiight, if PE was a partner in a "peer" firm sure he would know summers by sight on day 2.
Co-head of hiring at my office of Skadden explicitly told all of the associates and summer associates that offers will be per usual (intended 100%), but no one will start until 2011, staggered but they don't know the dates yet. However, they also explicitly said no deferral compensation and have scheduled speeches on obtaining clerkships, public interest jobs, etc.
"The specific "you have to earn it language" was apparently on a PowerPoint slide -- the same slide that is shown every year. We've heard rumblings that some firms will have summer offer rates of 50% or less, but none of that talk is coming from Skadden. Our understanding is that Skadden fully expects its offer rate to remain unchanged."
I don't get it. Now you've resorted to devaluing your OWN reports instead of letting the commenters write "This isn't news!!! AHHH!!!! You suck!!"
ATL, you are an evil genius.
Here's a Hint for this genius SA tipster: sending information about firm meetings to a legal blog puts you at the front of the no-offer line. Idiot.
Of course thery could not give guarantees of offers. They cannot risk walking straight into a Section 90 suit. That is why this site should ban all Section 90 comments and references. The law firm partners read these boards and are adapting.
Or they're just metering out the pain. Last fall these kids got hired to what they thought were plum, in the bag jobs. Now Skadden is saying you have to work. That way when they offer 50% of the class, it won't feel so bad. And that way when they rescind the offers of the 50% they did, it won't feel so bad. And when they lay off the class of 2009, it won't feel so bad. And whey they make no summer offers to 2Ls next year, it won't feel so bad...
Anyone else think the "DUNE" guy's schtick is annoying? I just don't grok it.
Great, just what the clerkship market needs.
51: sorry. You're just a stranger in a strange land.
This post doesn't address the real question - why would someone ever want to get a job offer from Skadden?
You guys are all idiots.
SKADDEN SECURE
All you assholes keep talking about what's good for the firm as if we (SAs) care. I know I'd rather my firm go absolutely bankrupt, taking every single fucking partner with it, if that's what it takes for me to get paid. If I could toss the partners' children out on the street, left to fight with their gold-diggin' mamas for food, I'd do it if it got me half a cent more. I don't give a shit about the firm or anyone in it, and the only reason I'm there, working to further the firm's interests is to get paid. So, don't tell me shit about entitlement or the firm's reasons or interests or anything like that--I'm pissed off because the gravy train is taking a detour. That is all.
~Skadden SA
This is conclusive proof that the class of 2010 is doomed to be the lost generation.
All 2L SAs should really drop out of school and find another profession. Seriously, you will never work as an assoicate in these firms.
49 is right. We will soon see similar language making its way into offer letters etc. Who would have thought that this board would help change the way major law firms look at associate employment?
Section 90 to 180!
This article is actually code for SkaddenDC layoffs. You just have to read between the lines.
Robert Langdon
what the hell is 30 talking about?
51 - No I do not, but thanks for asking.
16/18/19 - Please get control of your computer. It appears it is still posting more drivel (see 42).
Serious question here: Are law firms participating in fall 2009 recruiting for 2010 summers, or are this year's rising 2nd year law students out of luck?
Dear Summer Associates, deferred 3Ls, etc....
Pay no attention to the comments criticizing your work ethic, attitude, etc.... They are completely irrelevant. These are the same people that made fun of a guy who killed himself. The people criticizing you are the bottom-of-the-barrel low-lifes with nothing better to do. The truth is, they were all SAs once, except when they were, the economy was great and they had nothing to worry about. You all on the other hand are entering a terrible economy. You will have to grit your teeth and work hard. You will have to manage stress and anxiety unlike any of these pathetic associates who jump at the opportunity to put you down. Pay them no mind. Good luck to all of you.
3rd year biglaw associate
Y'all betta get a grip! The Big Law days is ovah! The things y'all discussin is like trying to get a corps to stand up when ain't no life blood in it. The corporations are failing, banks ain't lendin so's ya'll ain't gettin dat dere gold mine no mo. The gold rush is ovah! Shoot outs are done! They ain't got it like that no more to give it to yah. Got that dimb wits! No work from the corps means no money to pay y'all dim dots!
Can someone please tell me if this ship be sinking???? I just can't tell!!
The ship be sinking...
63 - Firms will continue to run through the motions of the usual recruiting process. But the underlying business model has completely changed, and the need for large first year assoc. classes has gone away for the foreseeable future.
So yes, this year's rising 2Ls are out of luck, as are several classes before and after them.
65 - Chances are equally good that all of the laid off attorneys and recent grads will find work outside of biglaw (because they have no choice) and when work picks up firms will be so desperate to over-populate their ranks again that starting salaries will jump to 190 or perhaps 215.
Keep pickin the bones, dere's no meat on it! The corpse is DEAD. Finding fault among yourselves is ridiculous. Why first years, why thirds, why, less money, why why me... STOP. Partners are trying to save what's left for their families and damn the rest of us. They have all those mortgages to pay on all those properties they can't afford any more. Look at Kirkland millions of dollars over budget on their big green move! Heavens to Murgatroid! The underlying business model hasn't changed. There is no underlying business model and there was no contingency plan. Those left behind to see the empty offices and dead phone lines await hoping there will be severance packages. We all have our doubts. No more blood is no more blood.
You summer associates in BigLaw, you best get ready for a real ass screwing. You can work as hard as you like, but you'll be screwed anyway. Drink, fuck, suck, do whatever turns you on, but you'll be screwed anyway. Get used to it.
ball hair
People like 57 are the reason why I feel it is ok to screw the summer associates!
Back in my day the $80 lunches were plentiful, steaks piled on chickens piled on lobsters.
Back in my day the $80 lunches were plentiful, steaks piled on chickens piled on lobsters.
You know what... I think that ATL should be shut down until the end of the recession. In good times, ATL likely played a key role in getting law firms to step up to the plate on things like bonuses and salaries. Now it is just giving firms information about other firms cutting salaries and laying off lawyers -- in turn giving the other firms the ability to follow suit. I think that ATL is actually driving salary reductions and the pushing out of start dates. I think that it will also drive lower bonuses and higher billable requirements before the end of the year. Give us associates a break and at least keep it difficult for our firms to find out the many ways that competitor firms are screwing associates.
That taint right.
Huzzah 76! Your idea is a good one. ATL is good-for-nothing these days.
There should be an editorial shift led by the indefatigable Lat-- Mystal having proven useless--to cover stories going the opposite way from the race to the bottom for associates.
LAT please read this!!!!!!!!
The one-year deferral with a stipend should become a permanent practice. It allows law students to gain a year of experience as lawyers at a discount to the law firm and the firm's clients and will also provide needed man power to public interest groups. Everyone wins but the graduating law students. And they've been winning for too long.
Sorry, Skadden SAs! Looks like your dream of models and bottles just turned into a nightmare with coors and whores.
xoxo,
GG
Is Skadden hiring laterals?
76 is on the nose. My firm uses this crap as competitive intel. Keep it up Mystal you fat fuck. Good stuff. Of course, we also mock all the whiny associates.
Sick conspiracy theory brah
Firms would not hire SAs to do useless memos at 3K a week all summer unless they were serious about making them permanent offers. Sure, they will not give out offers like candy as in past years, but if the prospects for an offer were so low these firms would have rescinded some of their summer offers.
Sorry, 84. Completely incorrect. Firms would never rescind a summer offer (making themselves look bad in the recruiting scene) when they can simply no-offer you and your poor-performing peers in August (making you look bad in the recruiting scene).
85: they're rescinding offers for first years, so how does that look any better than doing so for a summer?
Does anyone else find it disturbing that the next class of Skadden incoming associates have a better idea of their start date than the current class headed to Fish and Richardson?
This is GREAT for me!
~Skadden 2009
I'm a Skadden SA and to clear up some confusion - there is likely NO COMPENSATION associated with the one-year deferral. We were advised that bar expenses + stipend will be paid and that is all. The point of telling everyone ahead of time is that we can all make alternative arrangements well into the future, but the firm won't be footing the bill.
I think this bodes well for those associates/3Ls who did Sidebar showing that the firm will honor their commitment to those who have left AND also to us, but I think recruiting for Class of 2011 is going to be harsh. I still really like Skadden for being honest with us, it's just a rough economy.
88 - and how is this good news for you? what this means is that skadden sees no hope of a recovery anytime soon, which in turn means that your ass will be on the firing block from the moment you arrive in september.
49 = 1L. Section 90 is of no significants.
76 - you wrongly assume that ATL is meant for associates when in fact it's for the general legal profession, including partners. ATL frankly couldn't give two shits about you and associates or even partners, but would rather report stories that generate maximum ad revenue. Sorry, but you lose this time.
I'm at Weil, and we've already deferred the class of 2010. As you'll recall, when the class of 2009 was "asked" to defer until Jan. 2011 (fyi, 85 out of 140 firmwide accepted), they were assured by Danhauser that the class of 2010 would not start before them. So the class of 2010 has already been deferred until at least Jan. 2011.
Of course, I'm not sure what the firm is going to do with ~200 associates in Jan. 2011, short of pulling a Strook on them.
But then again, Weil also laid-off 30 associated in January, and the classes of 2007 (94) and 2008 (140) are still massively under-utilized.
- Weil associate desperately try to get BFR work.
Result of deferrals: clerkship applications to 190 in the fall?
87 - Right on...F&R are you reading this!!
Hey dumbshit - the partner who broke the news to the stunned summers was so tongue tied, confused, and visibly embarrased that it was virtually impossible to glean any real information other than that offers for this summer will be typical, but start dates will be deferred.
If anything, Eric Friedman cleared it up today when he emphasized that the firm could have chosen to reduce summer offers, but instead chose to defer start dates.
No BS there.
BTW - I hope you posted that shit from your home computer, not that shiny new blackberry while sitting there with your anus clenched.
Hey dumbshit - the partner who broke the news to the stunned summers was so tongue tied, confused, and visibly embarrased that it was virtually impossible to glean any real information other than that offers for this summer will be typical, but start dates will be deferred.
If anything, Eric Friedman cleared it up today when he emphasized that the firm could have chosen to reduce summer offers, but instead chose to defer start dates.
No BS there.
BTW - I hope you posted that shit from your home computer, not that shiny new blackberry while sitting there with your anus clenched.
Interesting news. The real question people should be asking, however, is why they are deferring the 2010 class when they haven't deferred the 2009 class (yet).
This strategy definitely makes sense for the firms that have deferred the 2009 class, though. Gives me some hope that the pain won't be 100% concentrated on we 2009'ers.
96/97: They also could have sucked it up like a real V10 and given offers while not deferring.
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/skadden-loses-partner-to-latham-watkins/
to da summa associate class of 2009,
You are fucked,
sincerely,
T-dog
Skadden proves to be the firm within the US magic circle that has been hit the most by the economic downturn. They literally laid off over 200 hundred associates (pretending to just be giving them 80K to "voluntarily" leave for a year - rumors are that partners were literally walking in associates' offices to ask them to take the offer), they gave no bonuses (pretending to give full bonuses and not giving it, as a matter of fact, to people who did not meet the hour requirements and to those who had a bad review - and apparently there were several "bad" reviews this year). And now, they are pushing start dates to 2011.
Thus: laid offs, push back dates, no bonuses. The only missing item is lower salary. The remaining "crisis" criteria have all been met.
30, Kirkland did not guarantee 100% offers. But it probably will be somewhere thereabouts. And we will probably start them sometime in 2010 and not 2011.
102, I guess you're not counting Latham. Probably correct. They were never actually a top firm.
56--
You're probably feeling pretty proud of yourself now. You tell yourself, "Hey, I got what it takes...the killer instinct." Whether that's true or not--I express no opinion--allow me to point out those things you do not yet have: (i) a law degree; (ii) admission to a state bar; (iii) a job; (iv) experience; (v) experience that people actually give a shit about; and (vi) the title "partner."
Those who sit in the partner offices at Skadden share that mentality when it comes to associates, staff and summer associates. The main difference is that they are in a position to do something about it like deferring your start date--assuming you get one--until the stars burn out.
At least you'll understand the mentality of the person tossing your ass onto the street. And knowing is half the battle.
105, you got to be stebbins.
Check the Nalp directory for Skadden, it reads" Is there a minimum billable hour expectation? No".
Now, why do they lie about it? At Skadden there is a minimum billable requirement which is 1600 hours NOT including probono (which, considering they had to send away 200 associates, it's probably safe to assume that was met by half of the associates in 08).