First

First for blood,

Fix your clock Elie, you didn't post at 4:37 (it's 4:34 now)

Any word on MWE?

A non-peer firm that is afraid of bad publicity offering "Leave and don't come back" money to save face in this dour economy? As long as some of you will take the money here is my advice as to what you should do with it. Three simple words: Hang a Shingle.

Getting Stroocked off never felt so good.

Prof, you have way too much faith in the capabilities of newly minted lawyers.... Unless you live in a small town in the mid-west, hanging a shingle is the first step toward starvation (or life threatening boredom).

I would totally take this offer if my firm offered it, take the money, pay off debt, and go to a small hometown firm because biglaw be sinking.

Crap! I knew I should have chosen them! Then I could have $75k and go back to my 1L firm.

THis sucks. That's gotta be a really hard decision to make. I hope the 3L's are in a better position than I am, as I would really have a hard time deciding what to do here. Good luck incoming Strookers.

take the money and run. If you don't, they'll just fire you a month later with no severence package.

The WSJ Law Blog has a legitimate promisory estoppel thread on an allegedly offered Orrick partnership. When Elie gets around to posting it here in a couple of days, our experts will also be able to show their stuff.

I respect Stroock for being honest with it's incoming associates. I suspect that many firms will end up doing this, but only after they continue to string along their incoming classes for many months.

Let's face reality -- even if the economy improves, which doesn't seem all that likely, the law firm business model is broken. The firms simply don't have enough work to bring in 80+ new associates any time soon.

Firms that *only* deferred until January are either (a) delusional, or (b) outright lying to their incoming classes. No way in hell anyone who was deferred until January will actually start before October 10', if at all. Stroock is simply recognizing reality, whereas other firms are still trying to maintain their image, which will only serve to (further) injure their incoming associates.

How long will 75k last on the beaches of Vietnam? 3 years? 5 years?

Wow, this seems like a pretty classy move, all things considered. It sucks to be that position (graduating with massive looming uncertainty), but at least this firm is providing clear options. I think I would be really tempted to take the "bye-bye" money and run - especially if I currently lived somewhere cheap.

It is a lot better to be looking for a job while living in Nashville with $75k than in NY with 10 months left on a lease and a three-month severence.

This is devastating news for 3Ls at 2nd tier schools.

stoooooooooooooooock

Is it sadder if Partner Emeritus is a real partner who's clearly lost any brains and sense he ever had?

Or a laid off lawyer or law student whose life revolves around keeping up this sad charade?

I don't believe that firms that only deferred until January will abandon most or all of the incoming class. I think it'll give firms time to weed out more ineffecient associates. Thereby making room for the new class, who haven't thought they've had it made for the last few years.

It's gonna be pretty awkward for those who choose to stay. Pretty clear the partnership could give two shits if they ever showed their faces at the firm.

16 - True, I didn't think about that. Now these guys will be out in full force looking for jobs rather than sitting in limbo waiting for a phantom start date. At least the ever-increasing deferral program keeps them out of the market for a while.

This comment is addressed to post no. 18.

I believe it is sadder that you would spend any time wondering about my true identity and whether or not I am a legacy partner at a peer firm or some poor delusional law student with no life. Think whatever you want but it is clear that you are the laughing stock of the day (next to any 3L who takes the 10K stipend at Stroock and expects to have a job in January 2010).

Here is a practical question. Perhaps Mr. $5 answer can provide guidance.....

If you are being paid NOT to work, is the money taxable as income? Is it taxed as unearned income?

I'd take the $50K with an option to return over the $75K. For starters, they seem to help you, and you have an option to return. I think that option of having a job in this uncertain economy is definitely worth $25k. Especially to those at lower ranked schools, not the best grades, etc.

13 is a stroock pr troll

11 is 100% correct. clearly stroock is a sinking ship.

Partner Emeritus,

Are seriously suggesting incoming associates choose instead to hang a shingle? These kids have no clue how to practice law. Law school doesn't prepare them for that. No matter what their summer experiences were like, these kids don't stand a chance practicing law on their own (unless of course they don't mind malpractice law suits).

23...its income

They're not offering $75K to LEAVE the firm by July 1. They are offering incoming 3Ls to NEVER come to the firm at all. They have to make this decision by July 1. I don't give a shit about typos, Elie. But it would be nice if your summaries made more sense.

Half the point of this blog is to understand what's going on at other law firms. I shouldn't have to go to the actual memo. It should be clear for the summary. But it never is.

18-

He's a law student.

. . . and a putz!

Stroock > Latham: Latham has not offered a deferral stipend or advance to deferred incoming first years.

22, I don't care about your identify. Just pointing out that you're a very sad little man whether a Partner, laid-off associate, or law student.

If you take the $75 K and fail the bar you're A-ok. Otherwise, it looks like if you fail the bar you are shit out of luck.

I agree with 28. The first years who take the 75k will never be at the firm in the first place so how can they leave by July 1? They just need to make a decison by then.

PE is a small section of 1Ls at a T10 with a couple witty people in it. Isn't that obvous? ( It must be UVa because the group includes a raving conservative nut.) It's not an emeritus partner. It's comedy, laugh.

Do these people get a regular government salary in addition to the $50k/year? Doesn't that seem unfair to people who actually WANT govt jobs for the salary they offer?

30 - what are you talking about? Lathan offered incoming first years $75K to defer to October, 2010.

36 - then again, Latham shitcanned over half of their NYC first years in February. Not exactly a great deal there, eh?

35, no one wants a government job for their salary. They want it for the easy pay, stepping stone, short hours, no other jobs available to them, etc. No one ever goes "I really really want to earn $45K after three years of law school."

Stop being jealous.

I will not tolerate any bashing of Partner Emeritus -- dude is crazy funny, and has my vote to join ATL as a staff writer.

-David Lat

Stop buying the crap that biglaw feeds you that recent graduates are not equipped to practice law straight out of school.

Stop buying the crap that biglaw feeds you that recent graduates are not equipped to practice law straight out of school.

interesting. really shitty position 3Ls are in- 2Ls summering there as well. they should just cancel the summer program.

interesting. really shitty position 3Ls are in- 2Ls summering there as well. they should just cancel the summer program.

Part of the "message" here, which likely is relevant to other deferred start date situations, is that all bets are off if you don't pass the bar.

WTF why not just rescind the offers

WTF why not just rescind the offers

#45

They are afraid of promisory estoppel lawsuits

Large number of lateral partners (especially when their private equity practice was booming), PPP under $1.2 million last year, and lost 4 bankruptcy partners back in 2007. The firm is probably more worried than most about partner defections. Little firm loyalty among your partnership with 75% of your partnership in New York and PPP that is fairly low for New York-centered V100 firms has to scare the crap out of management. Lower profits suck, but a firm really gets into trouble when it starts losing partners.

Retired partner here: I thought I had seen everything, but this is something to behold. A firm without sufficient work to employ newly hired attorneys offering to give away firm funds in order to get them to decide not to come, and $75K at that. Good god, what do you say to the associates who are working for their pay. What totally insane partner would go along with this. Just admit your screwed up, then revoke the offers or fire them. This is rediculous.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,

Know when to walk away and know when to run.

You never count your money when youre sittin at the table.

There'll be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

75K to not show up. Man, if you had another biglaw firm or significant government opportunity to exploit, you could make out.

NY to 235K?

@46: Because perhaps they understand that rescinding offers of 3Ls who have been counting on this job for over a year, and consequently not looking for another job, and are about emerge from law school with six figure debt is unconscionable.

I'm not a partner, and I too believe this is insane. Just revoke offers. You are already gonna take a reputation hit because you can't hire them. Just save yourself the $1million you're gonna spend on this and bounce back. If you need new associates later, the market is flooded with them.

This was not included in the memo, but I believe in order to accept the $75k, the (non)employee will have to sign a waiver of all claims against the firm (including under Restatement Section 90). Pretty clever of Strook to manage their risk this way.

Elie, your post here was really confusing and misleading. First of all, they are not offering money to leave the firm by July 1. This is an offer to 3Ls who aren't at the firm yet to take $75K to never show up, and they have to make a decision by July 1. Second, you list the "options" they've offered in reverse order, which is really misleading. The memo says the start date is January 11, but if you'll defer for a year, they'll pay you $50K. In the event that you want to explore other options, they will buy you out for $75K.

-Not from Stroock

23: if there is "an accession to wealth" it is income for tax purposes. It doesn't have to be from compensation for services.

49: Time to drink your prune juice and change your Depends, grandpa. Leave the legal commentary to the relevant generations.

psst... Seyfarth (which has been making stealthy layoffs for over a year now) made across the board cuts in associate salaries today and also fired several legal secretaries in the New York office... pass it on...

56: But what if this were categorized as a gift? Then it would be non-deductible to Stroock, untaxed to 3Ls.

59: not if they are considered employees, under 102 an employer cannot give a gift to an employee.

Jeeze, when will firms start offering voluntary severence packages to associates generally? That's what I'm hanging on for. I'd leave for a heck of a lot less than $75k.

60-

But the 3Ls are not employees. That's the whole point, that Stroock doesn't want to have to hire them in the fall (and that's why the original question was asked, back at 23, because it's not a salary).

-59

75k to screw your career over forever? What's not to like?

this actually could be a better situation for 2ls- it seems that stroock has sacrificed its 3ls rather than simply no-offer all 2ls. or they will just do both. but still, 75K ain't bad.

What's next? Skadden offers next year's 2Ls $10K not to apply? Sign me up!

36, 37 - Latham did offer an additional 62,000 to 3Ls deferred for a year, but it offered no additional amount to 3Ls deferred until the very end of 2009, unlike Weil, Stroock, Winston, etc.

49: It's pretty rediculous that a former partner can not spell ridiculous correctly.

49: It's pretty rediculous that a former partner can not spell ridiculous correctly.

If Latha was an ice cream flavor it would be Pralines and Layoffs.

mcdermott ...
a chill wind blows down the halls of 601 d street, nw

64, thats why the date is Jul1. If no 3Ls take the offer or not enough, then they can decide how many 2L's to no offer. I bet this summer, offers wont be handed out at the end of the summer as usual, but instead 2L's will have to redo OCI and wait until the firm before they hear anything from their firms about their summers. Damn, that is gonna suck for them.

69 - If Latham were an ice cream flavor, I'd call it "Jonestown Gordona," in honor of sadistic cult leader Dave Gordon.

69 - Wish you had spelled Latham fully, but nevertheless, appreciate the WW reference.

71. . . I meant to say wait until the fall. Sorry.

59: The payment is not a gift because it was paid by the firm in exchange for giving up the right to pursue a claim against the firm. A gift must have 'donative intent.' These payments are analogous to settlements for injury claims. The money will be taxed as ordinary income.

Stroock only had an 84% offer rate last year. The 2Ls had fair warning that they were going to a TTT likely to no-offer them.

why redo oci?

Would rather kill self than work at Stroooooooooock.

Please leave the room if you think this will affect you.

cause you ain't gonna have no offer sonny boy. This years 2Ls in summer positions are gonna average around a 50% offer rate. That means half of you will leave this summer unemployed, and hence be forced to redo OCI. Moreover, I bet most firms wont even let the 2L's know whether they have an offer or not until late into the fall (to avoid over offering based on needs, when this years class starts, etc) and since OCI starts in August, you're all gonna have to redo the resumes, interviews, etc. It's gonna suck for 2Ls.

77 - are you retarded? Seriously?

54 lies

77's right -that's the point- there is no point in redoing OCI. if you are no-offered come the end of summer - you are simply screwed and going through OCI will lead to nothing. (it was hard as a 3l before this economy, now it's a lost cause)

82, not true. I think this is the final year of the summer associate. Firms will revert back to hiring 3Ls based on need instead of trying to gage the firms needs for 18 months post the internship. Summers are gone. 3L hiring will re-emerge. That's the way it was before, and the way it will be again.

Yeah, people like 79/82 are fear-mongering/over reacting. Offer rates may dip, moreso at lesser firms, but everyone seems to forget that the economy is cyclical and demand will indeed come back.

59/62:

There is no way this would be classified as a gift as there is a form of consideration sought by the firm in exchange. This is a very non-gift type of situation and under tax law the rule is "detached and disinterested generosity." I don't see that standard being met here lol. See the Duberstein case.

-56

The Budd Dwyer character is completely awesome. Budd Dwyer was actually a good, decent man who apparently got a raw deal at trial and saved his pension (for his surviving wife) with his sad, desperate suicide. I am in no way condoning his suicide, but if you saw that stupid Will Smith movie 7 pounds, Budd Dwyer wasn't much different.

85: Apparently you don't understand just how much Stroock likes its incoming first years. Word has it they would do anything for each other and this 75k is just a token of their friendship. As such it is a Duberstein gift and the first years need not report it as income.

Elie - you are an idiot. Very confusing post and only in loose terms is analogous to the Pilsbury offer.

87: That's a damn fine point. I clearly chose the wrong firm.

87 is racist

89 also is racist

VERY classy to give just 2 months notice for the decision during finals for 3Ls AFTER bar application deadlines have passed for most states. Keep it Classy Stroock!

84 = scared 2l just trying to tell themselves it's ok. Think about it, deferred for a year 3L's. . . you dont think they're not going to try to plan better and shorten the list of people they offer this summer?

93: some firms have not frozen salaries, deferred 3Ls, shortened summer programs, or conducted layoffs. You think they are going to start the action by no-offering 2Ls? Homey don't play dat.

94, I'm not saying all firms. But MANY have done all of things you said, even top firms. You really think kids at Strook, Latham, Shearman, etc are safe? if so you are dreaming. DREAMING!

95: I am talking S&C, DPW, Cleary, PW, and Debevoise. Weil on the other hand is very unsafe.

96, those are the exception. Most firms are doing either salary cuts, deferred starts dates, layoffs, or a combination of the three.

Fine, I concede. I'll stop calling Partner Emeritus out. I don't think this 1L section is funny at all. But apparently some people do.

Only 17 more to go...

10 Kirkland & Ellis LLP Chicago, IL
14 Williams & Connolly LLP Washington, DC
20 Arnold & Porter LLP Washington, DC
32 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP London, UK
46 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP Armonk, NY
56 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP San Francisco, CA
58 Fish & Richardson P.C. Boston, MA
61 Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP New York, NY
68 Steptoe & Johnson LLP Washington, DC
74 Reed Smith LLP Pittsburgh, PA
75 Patton Boggs LLP Washington, DC
79 Howrey LLP Washington, DC
81 Crowell & Moring LLP Washington, DC
88 Dickstein Shapiro LLP Washington, DC
91 Lovells London
93 Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP New York, NY
100 Fenwick & West LLP Mountain View, CA

59/62 - A payment not to work is still income - see a non-compete agreement.

This reminds me of the time I paid that fat chick not to tell her friends that we slept together.

Frat Stud

3Ls are facing similar options at many firms.

Is there any point to planning on starting in Jan./Feb./March? Seems like it would be safer to either defer or, even better, take the money and run before "at will" employment is terminated.

Or do enough people want to leave Big Law such that those who want to stay, can?

So, basically Stroock incoming first year = Stephon Marbury.

Dear Timid Deferred 3Ls:

Call the partner(s) you developed a relationship with over the summer and ask them what they think you should do. Grow a pair.

- Benny Blanco from the Bronx

99-

Crowell sent out start-date letters 2-3 months ago. Associates can start any Monday in Sept.

BS.

Pillsbury will announce in June.

***********************************************************************************
McDermott Will & Emery.

Even with HF gone and PS/JS jointly at the firm's helm, things aren't good. I smell layoffs... the next round wil hit NYC and Boston followed then by DC, Chi-town, Miami, and Houston.

-- we'll have delayed start dates
-- layoffs will hit associates, counsel, and income partners
-- across the board salary cuts (I hear 1st years to 145k and all other classes down 10-30%)
-- dead weight capital partners will continue to be pushed out (de-equitized)

***********************************************************************************

any firm that has not announced yet will be doing something similar, if not more drastic. opinions?

Elie, "first year's"? Really? And how can I be the first to point this out?

22/PE - You are the laughing stock of everyday. And not in the genuinely humorous way that blog schtick is meant for. In the "wow if I had a heart I would feel bad for that guy. But I don't so I just want him to have some sense of what everyone else thinks of him." way.

Only in America can some chump get $75,000 for NEVER showing up to work or actually being an official employee of a company! I wonder why everyone is going broke? Absolutely mind numbing. I'm sure every other BigLaw firm will be falling all over themselves not to be out-done by these "severence" packages. What a joke......

#99:

What the hell is that list of?

You've got firms on there that have already delayed start dates, so that can't be it...

99 - expect MoFo to change their start dates. They are updating on May 11th, and I'll be shocked if they don't push back to at least December and offer the same year-long, voluntary deferral stipend that everyone else has offered (to be clear, I mean a Latham/Orrick and not a Stroock-type deferral). I doubt they'll be the first V25 to plunge into salary reductions, but I suppose you never know.

113, what firms on that list have announced start dates? It's supposed to be a list of firms that have not announced at all.

I'd kind of like 75k to go away. It's a clean break. Way better than 10 or 20k to hang around for a while for a job that might be there, or might not. Lots of people in that latter boat.

What would be fun: Things pick up and most Biglaws realize they need warm bodies fast. Would be Stroockies w/ the "75K Go Away Offer" get job offers at other Biglaws. On the eve of July 1, they tell Stroock they all take the 75K and then they go and work at a better Biglaw. Would Stroock rescind its 75K offer if things picked up?

LOL@ the thought that "things will pick up" anytime soon. Do you know how bad things must be if firms are paying people 75k to go away?

The class of 2009 is 100% completely fucked.

I unfortunately agree with 118. 117 describes something fun but about as likely as the fun of jenna jameson showing up at my door

118, i think the class of 2010 is screwed more. Just my thoughts. 2009 had summers and an ok OCI. Many have offers and start dates and some cash. 2010. . . none of those options.

The reality is the stupid multi-year BigLaw hiring process has screwed '09, '10 and '11.

'09 - Whoops, we don't need/want you anymore. Seemed like a good idea at the time in Fall 2007...

'10 - Summer positions down by 1/3, certain increase in no-offers.

'11 - 2009 Fall OCI is going to be a disaster. No summer associate job = no firm job.

If my soon-to-be-firm offered this deal, I would take it in a heartbeat. Kicking myself for not taking that callback at Stroock...

well then... 2L summer strookers are screwed.

Partner Emeritus is hilarious brilliant, the Nabokov of ATL posters. (Recall suave John Ray at the start of Lolita for a similar voice.) To those upset: you never heard of black comedy? Satire perhaps? Let me quote another luminary, the young Mick Jagger: "If you can't take a joke, it's too fucking bad."

124 = partner emeritus/1L doing poorly in Contracts.

117-120:

Arguing as to whether the Class of 2009 or 2010 is more screwed is like arguing which of two quadriplegics would have been more screwed if they were both on the Titanic and all of the life rafts had left the ship.

The Class of 2008 was screwed too. As will be the Class of 2011. Things are not getting better any time soon. If you are a 1L this might be the time to look into another line of work. If you have any scientific skills at all in the biological sciences you might want to try the medical field. The Big Law Model is broken and will not be fixed. The new model will be firms hiring new associates after their third years and AFTER they have taken and passed the bar. Just like it used to be in the old days. Very, very few "associates" will be hired before this time. A few HLS types with stellar resumes will get in early, the rest will be fighting for every spot. There are just too many lawyers out on the street to go around to continue the madness of hiring vast numbers of 3L's on a whim.

118 - If this is the case, what are all the 2009-2010 students with 150k in debt going to do (myself included)? Revolt? Jonestown? It's like a mortgage payment (1500/mo for 20 years) on top of rent. Well, at least I got to read incredibly tedious shit, cram, and listen to professors self-fellate for three long years. What an life-altering mistake law school was.
- CLS Class of 2009'er

GOOD QUESTION 118- and I have no idea. but, one thing to keep in mind is that many of us are facing the same situation, and there is some comfort in knowing that others are equally screwed. this is a very humbling experience - which SUCKS.

108 is right on. I am worried.

128 was directed towards 127.

49, Now you know why law firms need a staff.

now you know how the class of 2008 feels except we've been at this longer...laid off in 2/09.

Do you know now im under even more pressure to find something BEFORE you guys take your bar exam!? Class of 2007,08,09 are going to be competing for even less jobs with 3 times the people - GREAT!! But yes - I dont feel as bad or as big a loser as I can because I know more than 1/2 of you are just as f*cked as I am, except im collecting unemployment till it runs out - what are you going to be collecting straight out of your bar exam? Not trying to be a jerk but at this point ive accepted changed reality - and so will most of you and the few who will be able to get the NEW 145K salaries before they axe 1/2 of you because they dont need or want you either.

Retired partner here: While it sucks to have your previously anticipated schedule turned upside down, I really doubt the future is as dire as many of you are suggesting. The need for legal services is not going away, at least not for many years to come. There's plenty of life left in law for you guys to have a lifetime playing at the law game. Yes, and you'll earn great incomes compared to most college grads and most of those with other types of grad degrees. Stay focused on finding a good firm to join. Forget about BigLaw being the only place to go. There's nothing wrong with BigLaw, but it's never been a reliable place for the long haul. Most of those who join after law school are long gone within 5 or 6 years. MidLaw and SmallLaw are much more reliable. You might earn less, but you might earn more. You'll probably work hard no matter where you go. Smaller firms are less likely to dump you in bad times. Life might not turn out as you had planned a year ago, but it will turn out just fine if you haul ass. One thing is for certain: Life will turn out quite badly for you if you sit around tha mope.

Good post by 133. No doubt these are hard times for a lot of people. But people have made it through other recessions and The Great Depression just fine. And will this time too. The melodrama on these forums gets out of hand.

133- BRAVO! Just because BIGLAW dumped you does not mean you are screwed. If you have a skill, go to a boutique. There are tons of patent boutiques that pay the same as Biglaw, have no layoffs, salary freezes, delayed start dates, etc. But GOD forbid someone mentions them in the comments of start dates, etc. and this board jumps on the TTT, that aint biglaw band wagon. You know what, they're better than BIGLAW. Believe me, I've done both. And I know everyone can't do patent law, but there are smaller, mid firms all over the place that pay decent, don't lay people off, and won't just screw you over. My little sister is graduating law school this year, her offer got rescinded, and now she's going to a small law firm in the middle of the country. Does it suck? Yeah. But there are jobs if you can find them. And you can always switch gears soon. I pick my jobs like I pick my lovers, Loyalty always trumps money and prestige. I suggest many of you on this board start thinking the same.

I'm a public interest lawyer and these douchebags are coming to work for us. Despite the free help and the (unofficial) plan to make them suffer for their money grubbing ways, we're really not looking forward to their arrival. If I were them, I'd take the $75K -- don't bother with the public interest option, we don't want you.

Retired partner here: 136, I've heard the same thing from a number of non-profits. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

We are as excited as you are 136. Now is it your trust fund or your spouse's that lets you sit on your high horse as a public interest lawyer without worrying about the money?

132 et seq. - Of course people with exorbitant student loan debt that go to small law will "live." Here's some rough math:
1500/mo = 30,000/year for minimum debt service.
85k salary = 59,500 take home at a 30% tax rate

29,500 for everything else.
Rent - 12,000
Food - 6,000
Clothing - 2,000
Transportation - 1200
Various insurances - 2000
[Double these if you live in NY]

133 --> Most new associates are in on the fact that they can't rely on the Biglaw job being there 5 or 6 years down the road. That's why I plan (if my job is still there in January) to live as frugally as possible and paying my debt down as much as possible during those 3,4,5 or 6 years - and then starting my "life".

139 - that was my plan too. now my job is gone and i have to start from scratch. while 133's plan sounds great in theory, it's not that easy. it's very, very hard to get a job at a law firm right now. they just aren't out there and the recent (as well as the soon-to-be) grads have taken a lot of that hit. it blows.

Retired partner here: 140, I didn't mean to suggest that it would be easy. I would hate to be in your shoes. It's going to be hard, but there really is no choice but for you to move forward. Good luck.

Would the 3Ls who take the $75K option be eligible for unemployment benefits? Probably not (at least not at the BigLaw salary rate), which would mean they are worse off than First Years who get fired with a severance.

142: Depends on the severance package.

i dont think so - seems unlikely - you havent "worked" unemployment in NY is based on salary during the last 2 quarters - you need 2 quarters of work. I doubt a 75K handout will cover that - but are you insane? 75K is a trillion times better than 11K in full NY unemployment benefots - think about it - max i 405 i think? plus 25 federal....take the 75K and RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

i dont think so - seems unlikely - you havent "worked" unemployment in NY is based on salary during the last 2 quarters - you need 2 quarters of work. I doubt a 75K handout will cover that - but are you insane? 75K is a trillion times better than 11K in full NY unemployment benefots - think about it - max i 405 i think? plus 25 federal....take the 75K and RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

this is actually an interesting look into game theory....you have X amount of people who all want to keep their 160k jobs but the firm is offering opportunity to walk away with 75K. However, you have no guarantee of keeping your job or getting a severance or working long enough to make up to 75K.

So now this decision will depend on how many people accept the 75K walk away amount - if enough do - then those who dont get to keep their jobs (in theory) but then only a few of the those who chose to keep their job will be allowed to stay for at least 6-7 months in order to make up the full 75k in salary....

PLus if you are laid off - you are laid off in a potentially worse market with no chance of getting another job and youve lost the opportunity cost of time to have found another job 6 months earlier that would allow you to develop relevant and marketable skills.....1-2nd years dont do anything relevant during their time in biglaw that will speak to another firm for hiring.

This is a HUGE decision for those who choose to tough it out and accept the position versus those who take th 75K and walk way.

This is seriously Russian Roullette with your career and life....

138 -- my spouse is also an attorney at a non-profit and sadly, neither of us have trust funds. Guess it's just our consciences... oh, and job security... that allow us to look down from upon our high horses.

146, I agree. I would rather not have an option than this. It's like "deal or no deal" for your entire future. Go Big or Go Home? Sucks. I think the mandatory deferals are better. At least you know others are in your boat. I feel for you Strook 3Ls. That's gotta be a few sleepless nights in the middle of finals. Sorry.

As lawyers we need to make difficult and important decisions every day...

149 - my only decision is where to go to lunch.

i'm just blue skying here -- but it may be that in addition to fear of bad publicity and section 90 claims, SSL is trying to structure the payment so that it does count as employment compensation, which would then require Social Security tax and Medicare tax deductions by recipient, and additional matching payments by SSL -- takers may walk away with 50 k net. I agree too that they are trying to clear the decks. The reality is that firms can now hire as many second and third years as they want to, with stellar resumes, for less than a first year.

All the best to all those affected, absolutely take the money and run.

151, I certainly don't think it's the case that the market is flooded with laid off attorneys with stellar resumes. Even with the layoffs that have happened. That's just not the case.

But it IS true that there are ENOUGH top people who are jobless and hiring needs are reduced enough that offers to incoming first years are going to be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced.

take the money. stroock cut salaries for half the associates by 25% and this is AFTER the salary freeze for everyone. basically second year makes 120k now. run.

PE fan here again. To the Associate Without a Sense of Humor: I am neither PE nor a law student. I am old enough, however, to remember the John Belushi SNL skit during the last swine flu scare when he was the leader of people giving loving, ridiculous testimonials to the disease -- e.g., "The swine flu bought me a new car." In other words, sometimes all you can do is laugh numb nuts.