first

1=racist

0% interest on student loans-- sounds like a great excuse to raise tuition.

this is a silly. Tuition in the UK is a joke compared to the US. In London they have protests over the fact that they have to pay ANY tuition. 0% loans are hardly revolutionary for them.

It's not QUITE a full student loan...

c'mon.

Not. fair. I paid my student loans in full. So should everyone else. A loan is a loan. IF YOU DIDN'T INTEND TO PAY ITS BACK YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BORROWED IT.

Given that I have $250,000 in debt and no job, I'd rather face the gom jabbar from the Bene Gesserit instead of listening to whining unemployed associates getting zero interest on their student loans..... oh wait.

On third thought... I'd rather face a punji stick up my ass from a disgruntled Atreides trooper from Caladan because you STILL have to repay the loans.

3=transference

1

Ballsdeep in my secretary's ass on a Thursday.

NOTE TO GRANDMAS: If you use ice cream to quiet your idiot progeny, it will grow up to be fat, ignorant and disgusting!

You'd never hear Duncan Idaho bitching about debt relief for his swordmaster training on Ginaz.

10 -

But she poos from there! Gross.

This story has nothing to do with anyone in America anyways.

wait!! don't forgive student debt yet! I haven't started law school yet! I only have a tiny bit of undergrad debt! waahhhh, i want a hand out too!

8, you're a tool. Go get drunk and bang Roxie.

Hey 7, fist yourself.

Whatever, this is old news. I work at a V10 in NYC. Did my BA/JD in Canada, total cost for two degrees: aprox $20k, Canadian dollars (so knock off 20%). Government gave me interest free loans the whole way through, and - like all recipients of the gov't aid money year in year out - had about 15% of that debt forgiven upon graduation.

I made enough my 2L summer in NYC to pay for my entire law degree, and I paid full tuition. A McGill/Toronto degree opens up NYC big law at least as much as a T10-T14 US degree. And the cost for that McGill LL.B?

http://www.mcgill.ca/law-admissions/undergraduates/costs/

These comments suck.

Nice entry Elie. This is why I voted for you.

15 -- don't start, and save yourself the crushing debt.

Actually, if you haven't started yet, and you are already reading this website, you just might be the kind of jerkoff that actually finds a job in this economy. Yay!

Obama will never cut any expenditures. Democrats are incapable.

Law students need it. The US gov't has not altered federal loan maximum amounts since the early 90's. In that time, tuition rose almost exponentially. Gov't was asleep at the wheel on this one. If tuition had been lower, instead of spending all that money just making loan payments, think about how much money would have been spent buying things and stimulating the economy.

7, zero percent interest would not negate the necessity to pay back the loan. It would just reduce the interest paid. Sorry you had to pay hand over fist. Get over it, douche.

"Given that I have $250,000 in debt and no job, I'd rather face the gom jabbar from the Bene Gesserit..."

SERIOUSLY?

24

Short-term intense pain that burns your hands off rather than long-term pain that ends 20-30 years later?

You pick.

19 = Elie

Whiners emigrate to the UK!

13, who said it was a "she"?

Elie,

You have shot for the stars on this bailout idea and even the ATL crowd, debt-laden as they are, have shot you down. But don't give up the fight for reasonable change:

-Remove the cap on tax deductions for student loan debt.
- Lower the rate of interest on federal loans, both stafford (6.8%) and Graduate Plus (8.5%)

With interest rates so low, why are student's getting the short end of the stick?

7 - Why do you hate Change?

Elie,

You have shot for the stars on this bailout idea and even the ATL crowd, debt-laden as they are, have shot you down. But don't give up the fight for reasonable change:

-Remove the cap on tax deductions for student loan debt.
- Lower the rate of interest on federal loans, both stafford (6.8%) and Graduate Plus (8.5%)

With interest rates so low, why are student's getting the short end of the stick?

24

Short-term intense pain that burns your hands off rather than long-term pain that ends 20-30 years later?

You pick.

Canadians suck.

-A non-Canadian

And it doesn't actually burn your hands off 24. Pain by nerve induction, remember?

8 - Love the Dune references.

I think this is the greatest idea ever. The only people poo-poo'ing it have less than 50K in debt - to you all, I say, STFU.

Elie

How did you find a woman with bigger breasts than you?

"If you borrowed it, you should have to pay it back."

Isn't this an argument against ANY debt obligation being dischargeable in bankruptcy? Maybe we should bring back debtor's prison. Can't be much worse than being stuck in biglaw.

Bailout is retarded way to approach this. But I don't see why we're paying such exorbitant interest rates, even on gov loans.

7 -

Would you rather be in my position right about now? If not, go fuck yourself.

Laid Off First Year Associate with Student Debt

Obama is far too busy bailing out labor unions and his community organizer voter fraud teams, and deciding which French-speaking three toed sloth to nominate for SCOTUS to deal with your whining. You already voted for him without a bailout and inevitably will do so again in 2012 regardless of how he reams you in the mean time, so why would he bother? Because you're "suffering"? Because you can't buy the things you want? Because everyone is miserable? Because you are trapped in dead-end jobs or unable to find productive work? All of these factors are just further insurance that you'll continue to vote Democrat; the precise reason they have a vested interest in actually keeping their supporters poor and miserable. If you wanted Obama to help you, you should have first at least pretended you wouldn't support him blindly anyway. You sound like the girl in Old School:

"Look, I did my part. Now you have to do yours. That's how bribes work."
"I know how bribes work. I bribe people all the time,
but I changed my mind. It's a free country."

Screw the short-term pain. I am happy to pay my approx. $250 per month on $70k for 30 years at 2% interest than pay huge sums per month now to get rid of the debt faster.

40 - to be accurate, yuu're no longer an associate, just laid off. Attention to detail may have spared you this situation.

Zing!

10 is hung like a light switch

-10's secretary

The dealbreaker ad is a horrible concept that is poorly executed. Please moderate.

People (at least, those of us employed)...don't get so excited. Even if the whiners here make this happen, it will phase out well in advance of any first year starting salary. Bastardos.

It is fascinating to watch so many in this country become comfortable shirking their personal responsibilities and the risks they knowingly took. Quite simply, these people, seeking bailouts in all sectors, are comfortable putting the negative consequences of their decisions on other individuals including future generations. I wonder how often these same people share their financial success when the economy is strong?

The sheer arrogance of this comment reeks like a festering carcass: "Yesterday, many commenters railed against people who made the "bad choice" of getting the best education possible." This completely mischaracterizes the choice and reality. The "bad choice", if that's what it is, is taking on significant financial risk to buy a degree of a higher pedigree (and access to additional career opportunities) rather than taking the scholarship elsewhere and avoiding the massive debt. The choice is rarely "better education", but rather, better pedigree. If you elect the pedigree and the corresponding financial risk, then accept the consequences when it doesn't work out.

Education is not a risk-free entitlement--it is an investment with a corresponding level of risk that only provides access to opportunities not guaranteed financial success.

39

It's called PROFIT. As in smart people profiting off you and everybody else including that unemployed Dune guy.

Face it, people who go to law school are financially innumerate and live out a life of indentured servitude for the majority of their working careers.

Good point 40. I don't think total loan forgiveness is the solution, but some accommodations for people who lose their job or graduate into this horrible economy are in order.

As a lawyer, the odds are really, really good that you'll be able to pay off your loans one day. You just don't have the means to right now. In five years the situation will be a lot different.

Talk with your lenders and try to arrange some sort of alternative payment arrangement. If you've been laid off, they'll probably be willing to work something out with you. It certainly doesn't do them any good if you default.

5 - I think you're forgetting that we are primarily concerned with law school, not undergrad.

Zero interest is a great idea.

If you paid all your loans and interest years ago, great for you. There were cool things like jobs, career options, and a robust economy during those grand times.

Today, not so much. Don't be bitter. Help a bro out.

An absoulte bailout would be morally and financially wrong, but the fact that the banks have access to these funds at 0-3% interest rates should equate to at most a fixed 4.5-6% rate for the borrower. Charging 8.5% rates ITE is a formula for default and is making a bad financial climate even worse. People should pay the debts they owe - however, the financial institutions that the taxpayers bailed out should not be allowed to reap the windfall on student loans they currently enjoy. Let's see if Obama truly is concerned about the people who helped get him elected, or if he's another specila interest lackey (my guess is the latter).

# 7

It is people like you who say "I did it, so you have to also" that destroy life. You probably paid $6,000 for your undergrad and law school loans. The average student now walks away from law school alone with over 125K in loans. Add that to the 100k for undergrad, if mommy and daddy didn't pay for it, and you have a heavy load.

Also, the zero interest idea, and that is all it is at this time, does not forgive the loan. It merely reduces the 7-9% interest we are paying on it. So get over your little tantrum. And get over yourself.

The losers spouting science fiction garbage (I mean verbiage) that no one else understands really need to stop.

48 - Government loans are not for profit. As for relative intelligence, speak for yourself.

As an investor that owns student loan debt in my portfolio, Obama better not pull the same shit he pulled with the Chrysler bankruptcy. If the interest rate goes to 0%, it better be because the government is subsidizing the loans instead of Obama abusing his power again to rewrite or disregard legal contracts.

54,

Would it be easier if I dumbed it down for you?

"May the Force be with you!"

Go back to grade school, dude.

54 is a mental midget who is obviously unfamiliar with "big" words. How did you ever pass law school, let alone get in?

Keep the Dune comments coming. As someone who used to play the game until tears were streaming down my eyes due to lack of blinking, the references have brought back fond memories of my ill-spent youth.

Not going to happen. There is no political appeal to taxpayers subsidizing law students. The indebted law student vote just isn't that large.

58

I never said that I was in government loans. I said I was making easy money in investing in private loan portfolios.

Sucks to be you, dude.

@7 -- you took a risk when you paid that loan off in put, buddy; now, stfu! If you had even an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit, you would've went out and put that money to work instead.

56 = flame bait

"Education is not a risk-free entitlement--it is an investment with a blah blah blah..."

Thanks, Drudge, but I'd rather be eaten by a eaten by a mighty sandworm than have to listen to your filth over and over again.

Allow student loan interest deductability to 4000

Move income cap up to 100K

Reduce stafford/grad plus loan rates to 5% fixed

Allow private studentloan rates to range 3.00 - 9.99%*

Best borrowers get prime, while shady credit keepers get 9.99% which is still great because these folks get killed with credit card like rates anyways. Allows flexibility for lenders to factor in borrowers credit risk.

60 - They already do subsidize stafford loans.

54- May thy knife chip and shatter!

Given that I have $250,000 in debt and no job, I'd rather go on a one-way ornithopter flight across the desert in Arrakis instead of listening to aging Baby-boomers justifying exorbitant principal and interest on student loans when today's amounts are quadruple the amounts paid in the 1960s and 1970s.

60, not only that, but as these comments indicate, we're not even a unified interest group!

Come on people, show a little solidarity. Just think: What Would an Agribusiness Congolmerate Do?

Given that I have $250,000 in debt and no job, I'd rather trek across the forbidding deserts of Arrakis in a malfunctioning stillsuit than than listen to the tired diatribes of people who fault me for having the temerity to attend a first-rate law school in the hopes that it would lead to a good job. What gall I had! How dare I attempt to better myself?!

68

I think it's more appropriate to say --

Come on people, show a little solidarity. Just think: What Would an Spice Harvester Conglomerate Do in light of the predatory Harkonnens?

I'm not sure if Elie was being facetious or not, but I don't think there has been any genuine debate on this blog about the potential merits of estoppel claims that may be based on Section 90 of the Restatement (Second) of the Law of Contracts.

This seems like a black-and-white case of reliance on a promise to one's detriment , no?

"A loan is a loan. IF YOU DIDN'T INTEND TO PAY ITS BACK YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BORROWED IT."

Oh, please. The government f---- led me into this morass. Before I took out my 180K of loans from Brooklyn Law School, I did my research. I carefully reviewed Joan King's post-graduate career statistics. It wasn't until AFTER I graduated that I learned from the Wall Street Journal and US News that these numbers were all fabricated. Where were the regulators?

60 - good point; the only logic democrats, including BO, have is in terms of votes

A pitty... i do think that student loan forgiveness is a good idea for society and, if that is a bit too extreme, at least forgiving all accrued and future interest on student loans... Much better than giving out free money and stimulus checks to scumbags who never paid a dollar of taxes in their life (both domocrats and republics have done this sh*t)

Given that I have $250,000 in debt and no job, I think I should trek across the desert to Sietch Tabr and proclaim myself Muad'Dib rather than listen to anonymous detractors and trolls on an anonymous Internet legal board.

"A loan is a loan. IF YOU DIDN'T INTEND TO PAY ITS BACK YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BORROWED IT."

Oh, please. The government f---- led me into this morass. Before I took out my 180K of loans from Brooklyn Law School, I did my research. I carefully reviewed Joan King's post-graduate career statistics. It wasn't until AFTER I graduated that I learned from the Wall Street Journal and US News that these numbers were all fabricated. Where were the regulators?

This has ZERO CHANCE! Don't get your hopes up. Do you really think the President and Congress are going to subsidize the lowering of student loan interest on anyone, let alone lawyers? NO CHANCE!!

That is as likely as Obama nominating a white male to the Supreme Court!

They are much more likely to raise taxes on those of us with jobs and will raise taxes on those of you who don't have jobs once you get them. The vast majority of you who are unemployed or who have been deferred will be getting good paying jobs eventually and Obama and his ilk in Congress will be taxing you blind.

The only thing that may save you is the massive bout of inflation that will hit in a few years once all this spending and borrowing hit the economy. This will be coupled with much higher interest rates, so consolidate as much as you can at a fixed rate and hope your future salary keeps up with inflation. Even then, bracket creep will kill you on taxes. You are all going to be RICH (gross paycheck) and POOR (net after taxes and inflation hit) at the same time. Change you can't afford! But Change you voted for!

How the fuck do you rack up $250K in debt.

Most expensive law school ~45K/year
Living expenses even in an expensive area = 20K/year. You can work summers and breaks to make money, llive frugally, etc.

Total for three years max = $190K

What were you doing? living in a one bedroom for $2K/month? Why weren't you living in Brooklyn, Jersey CIty, or the Bronx with roomates for $700/mo. That's your own fault.

People who can't pay back their loans should be waterboarded, not bailed out.

I thought Dune was a great book and all when I read it in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

Just kidding. It sucked even then.

This has ZERO CHANCE! Don't get your hopes up. Do you really think the President and Congress are going to subsidize the lowering of student loan interest on anyone, let alone lawyers? NO CHANCE!!

That is as likely as Obama nominating a white male to the Supreme Court!

They are much more likely to raise taxes on those of us with jobs and will raise taxes on those of you who don't have jobs once you get them. The vast majority of you who are unemployed or who have been deferred will be getting good paying jobs eventually and Obama and his ilk in Congress will be taxing you blind.

The only thing that may save you is the massive bout of inflation that will hit in a few years once all this spending and borrowing hit the economy. This will be coupled with much higher interest rates, so consolidate as much as you can at a fixed rate and hope your future salary keeps up with inflation. Even then, bracket creep will kill you on taxes. You are all going to be RICH (gross paycheck) and POOR (net after taxes and inflation hit) at the same time. Change you can't afford! But Change you voted for!

This has ZERO CHANCE! Don't get your hopes up. Do you really think the President and Congress are going to subsidize the lowering of student loan interest on anyone, let alone lawyers? NO CHANCE!!

That is as likely as Obama nominating a white male to the Supreme Court!

They are much more likely to raise taxes on those of us with jobs and will raise taxes on those of you who don't have jobs once you get them. The vast majority of you who are unemployed or who have been deferred will be getting good paying jobs eventually and Obama and his ilk in Congress will be taxing you blind.

The only thing that may save you is the massive bout of inflation that will hit in a few years once all this spending and borrowing hit the economy. This will be coupled with much higher interest rates, so consolidate as much as you can at a fixed rate and hope your future salary keeps up with inflation. Even then, bracket creep will kill you on taxes. You are all going to be RICH (gross paycheck) and POOR (net after taxes and inflation hit) at the same time. Change you can't afford! But Change you voted for!

The problem is employers perpetuating the fraudulent educational scheme... education is valuable, sure, but it has virtually nothing to do with the actual skills it takes to do any given job well. College doesn't prepare you for a job, unless you are a hard sciences/math major or attend a vocational school. From a pragmatic standpoint, those are the only way to learn *useful* job skills, aside from, you know, actually going out and working.

Humanities for the most part ARE NOT USEFUL for a job. They may be useful for many things -- self-improvement, edification, long-term betterment of the human race through research (IF the student actually winds up going into research, not bloody likely) -- but they are not useful for the vast majority of jobs out there. Similarly, the useful parts of law school could easily be condensed into a year. That's right, one year, not two.

The employers have a vested interest in keeping us tied to traditional education for two reasons: 1) mountains of student debt hamper our flexibility, thus giving employers more power, and 2) the interest on those debts makes rich lenders richer, which in turn leads to bigger payoffs for the employers who are more or less in bed with them.

Ask yourselves: why do most employers require bachelor's degrees? Seriously, why? Don't give me the bullshit empty answer about how it proves you can stick with something and complete it. It takes just as much dedication -- more, really -- to consistently build a skill set through actual practical experience. Smart kids can drink, oversleep, and slack their way through college and, to an extent, even through law school. No one can slack their way through a job for very long before they find themselves without one. So why the insistence on degrees?

Full disclosure: I'm a formerly-biglaw-now-small law attorney with a CCN JD and respectable state bachelor's. My SO is a college dropout in the tech industry whose current salary is within spitting distance of mine. However, he runs into a lot of bullshit from companies who question his lack of degree in spite of the fact that he's been consistently working in his field for the better part of a decade (and is better at what he does than most of the college grads he works with -- certainly better than those his age, who are a good 2-4 years behind him in experience since they took the time to finish school). Frankly, he has really opened my eyes to the absolute stupidity of education for the sake of a job. I don't regret getting mine, but I also come from a rich family, don't have any debt, and genuinely enjoy education for its own sake. I'm not blaming anyone who goes into debt for education -- I'm blaming employers for insisting on it, thereby giving people very little choice in the matter. The problem isn't people going to school when they can't afford it; the problem is that a degree is virtually a pre-requisite to the vast majority of upwardly-mobile jobs (which then turn out not to be so upwardly-mobile for most people anyway), and no one has done anything to make degrees more ACTUALLY accessible to the lower-middle and working classes. Hell, these days it's inaccessible to most of the UPPER middle class.

*anticipates pointless "poor little rich girl" comments in spite of the lack of personal complaint*

This has ZERO chance!

CHOAM and the Spacing Guild will never stand for it. They fronted you the money and if you screwed up, it is hardly their fault.

And going to the smugglers to get out of the Empire won't help, either.

"How the fuck do you rack up $250K in debt. "

What?! Do you think buying sufficient amounts of spice in order to achieve a consciousness-altering spiritual transformation is cheap?

Average law school debt of graduates = $80K.

If you have more than double this, you made a poor choice. NYU, COLUMBIA, HARVARD, YALE are not worth the price. If you were gonna graduatee making $200K or those degrees were worth more than a cheaper degree than you have an argument. But since BIGLAW has always been a market pricing situation where everyone makes the same, you were actually stupid to go to these schools.

It's like MIT v. Rutgers for engineering if you are a NJ resident. $120K v. $50K for a 4 year education. Both get you the same job with the same degree. Now, if you want to be a professor, name matters. But outside that, lockhead martin pays both graduates the same.

If you whore yourself out for prestige, prepare for your pimp to bitchslap you.

If the index on which the UK student loans are based is negative, how is setting the interest rate to 0% on all loans lowering the interest rate?

I'm not complaining about having to pay back what I borrowed, but I'd be much happier to pay it back interest free. I've been throwing $2k a month down that black hole for the past 8 months and have yet to reduce the payoff amount to the original principal.

Highway robbery, I tell ya.

85 = spot on!!

I am a TOP student at Western State University College of Law. I will get my J.D. from there and an M.B.A. from Argosy University.

You guys are all all whiners. Once I pass the CA bar, I will get my dream job and have every person envy me.

I will see my old high school buddies and act humble, but will sure let them know that I am a lawyer!

What you think of dem apples?

I am a TOP student at Western State University College of Law. I will get my J.D. from there and an M.B.A. from Argosy University.

You guys are all all whiners. Once I pass the CA bar, I will get my dream job and have every person envy me.

I will see my old high school buddies and act humble, but will sure let them know that I am a lawyer!

What you think of dem apples?

89

I'd rather be a slave boy in Giedi Prime than be a TOP graduate from Western State University College of Law.

I bet 82 is hot.

Sure 0% in England sounds great, but what is that when you translate it to American percentage? 4.2% I think, give or take. I'm paying less than that right now. What can Obama do for me?

I agree with 85. If demand at overpriced schools diminishes, their acceptance rate will increase, lowering their ranking status. Forcing them to rethink that maybe they should decrease their tuition to increase in rankings again.

Those who go to these overpriced schools are stupid. Go state school or lower ranked school on a scholarship.

I just sress-tested my asslobster and it needs a serious freakin' bailout.

What we need to do is mobilize a legitmate lobby effort. 0% is fine. But I would rather be able to deduct my loan interest like I can with my mortgage. Or let us pay them down on pre-tax dollars. I mean there is no way I can pay off my debt and it sucks. I make great money so I am taxed in the highest bracket even though 1/3 of my income goes to loan repayment.

PS - F@ck off to those that say - "I paid my loans, a loan is a loan" I will pay them but give me a chance. There are only so many of us making over $120K a year.

“If you whore yourself out for prestige, prepare for your pimp to bitchslap you.”

This is ridiculous. The difference between attending a T5 and going to say, Vanderbilt, is the same as between becoming a Sardaukar or joining the army of a Minor House. The former is more likely to earn fortune and glory and to stomp the latter to death. Don’t blame me if, by some freak of nature, the Kwisatch Haderach appears and launches an intergalactic jihad that obliterates all opposition.

Obama can do no wrong

Why kill yourself with 14 hrs days at the firm and get caught up in the competite hupla. 9-6 job / 55K a year, and a whole bunch of free stuff from the government, baby!

The best thing, is knowing that, in a year or two, those ashole partners at S&C will lose more than half of their dirty share of PPP to Tanisha, Rowanda and Jamal over in brooklyn and in the bronx

Bless Jesus, bless the lord; I voted for him so he can work for me!

Obama can do no wrong

Why kill yourself with 14 hrs days at the firm and get caught up in the competite hupla. 9-6 job / 55K a year, and a whole bunch of free stuff from the government, baby!

The best thing, is knowing that, in a year or two, those ashole partners at S&C will lose more than half of their dirty share of PPP to Tanisha, Rowanda and Jamal over in brooklyn and in the bronx

Bless Jesus, bless the lord; I voted for him so he can work for me!

Obama can do no wrong

Why kill yourself with 14 hrs days at the firm and get caught up in the competite hupla. 9-6 job / 55K a year, and a whole bunch of free stuff from the government, baby!

The best thing, is knowing that, in a year or two, those ashole partners at S&C will lose more than half of their dirty share of PPP to Tanisha, Rowanda and Jamal over in brooklyn and in the bronx

Bless Jesus, bless the lord; I voted for him so he can work for me!

“Hotel Brooklawonia” The Leagles

On a dark New York highway, cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of gorditas, rising up through the air
Up ahead in the distance, on Joralemon Street
My heart grew heavy and my sight grew dim
I had to enroll for the night [program]
There Joan stood in the doorway;
I rang the admissions bell
And I was thinking to myself,
This school could be Heaven or it could be Hell
Then she whipped out a brochure and she showed me the way
There were voices down the corridor,
I thought I heard them say…

“Welcome to the Hotel Brooklawonia”
Such a f*****g place
Such a f*****g waste
Plenty of room at the Hotel Brooklawonia
Any time of year, you can wind up here

Joan’s mind is Tiffany-twisted, she’s got a Mercedes Benz
She got a lot of shifty, shifty tools, that she calls friends
How they dance in the school courtyard, sweet summer sweat.
Some dance to dissemble, someone will cash your check

So I called up the placement office,
Please bring me some jobs with wine [bottle service]
She said, “We haven’t had those spirits here since nineteen ninety nine”
And still those voices are calling from far away,
We threw up in the middle of the night
Just to hear them say…

“Welcome to the Hotel Brooklawonia”
Such a f*****g place
Such a f*****g waste
They’re livin’ it up at the Hotel Brooklawonia
What a nice surprise [after graduation], Joan King has her alibis

Smoke and mirrors at Career Services,
Chin Kee Fatt’s telling lies
And she said “You are all just debt prisoners here, of your own device.”
And in Joan Wexler’s chambers,
They’re gathered for the feast
They stab the real stats with their steely knives,
But they just can’t kill the Beast

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the life I had before
“Relax,” said Chink Kee Fatt, man
“We are programmed to deceive.”
“You can checkout any time you like,”
“But you can never leave [your debt behind]!”

Law students don't need sh*t. If you discharge in bankruptcy, then you should have to give up your degree and license. or recapture discharged amounts with interest. That's kind of the difference between the numbskulls that gamble or rack up 100 g's in credit card bills.

Don't worry guys, all your financial troubles will go away when Obama raises taxes on single people making over $200k and married people making over $125k each. See, when we raise taxes on you, it's easier for you to pay back your student loans.

Yes We Can Change We Can Believe In

97 - a tier three kid with a full scholarship will choke a Yale debt bitch. I WILL CHOKE A BITCH!

P.S. I have biglaw with a September start date, so please, please, please tell me how you'll crush me.

Even if I get laid off in a few months, I'll have a $50K cushion while you'll have a mountain of debt.

"Don't worry guys, all your financial troubles will go away when Obama raises taxes on single people making over $200k and married people making over $125k each. See, when we raise taxes on you, it's easier for you to pay back your student loans."

Yeah, it's almost as if some previous administrations had run up huge deficits and economic turmoil and left it to someone later on to try to restore fiscal responsibility.

97 - a tier three kid with a full scholarship will choke a Yale debt bitch. I WILL CHOKE A BITCH!

P.S. I have biglaw with a September start date, so please, please, please tell me how you'll crush me.

Even if I get laid off in a few months, I'll have a $50K cushion while you'll have a mountain of debt.

Loan forgiveness is taxable income!
Loan forgiveness is taxable income!
Loan forgiveness is taxable income!

Many of us get annoyed at those who bought too much house with no money, had the luxury of living in that huge house for several years at almost no cost while we all dutifully paid the exhorbitant rent on our studio apartments, and are now crying crocodile tears that they'll have to toss the keys back to the bank and move out of "their" house and live like the rest of us in rented cramped spaces.

Now sure, I have student loan debt, and I probably wouldn't turn down the windfall of having my debt suddenly wiped out.

But there are a lot of fiscally responsible kids out there who turned down Ivy League offers in order to take full scholarships at second-tier schools and avoid six figures of debt. I wouldn't blame them for being really really pissed right now at the notion of loan forgiveness for the kids who already have the job-search advantage of holding a more expensive degree.

97 is a true Dune fan.

Props.

Sincerely,

Muad'Dib

People say that Western State University College of Law is ranked low so they will never go there.

I'll tell you this though: I have high grades at the school! This means that I can study the law, know the law and pass the bar. I have full-ride scholarship (no debt!) and will be a lawyer (I am graduating this week).

Even for people from "higher" schools can't say all of that.

I have life figured out. I will be a lawyer, make lots of money, impress some hot 18 year old chick out of community college and bang her and her friends and make all the people in high school and law school feel like crap.

They will go, "He turned out to be cooler than me!!" "I should of f*** him when I had the chance!"

105, "fiscal responsibility" by spending $787 billion on pork and racking up a record $1.8 trillion, or over 10% of the GDP, in deficits? Even during the worst of the Bush years it was never much more than 3% of GDP. But hey, at least Obama found $100m in savings and reduced the deficit by 0.005%.

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

106 - Every now and then even the meanest of foot soldiers from the lowest of armies will have some small success. How are the rest of your classmates?

You WILL be crushed. If not now, than later.

I agree with many commentors on this post and laugh at all the TTT, non-T14 kids are garbage posts from days back.

MANY MANY MANY students at lower ranked schools got into way better schools and took a half-price tuition over the sticker price prestige whore. Was it a gamble? Sure. But my theory doing this was after first semester, if I'm not in the top 10, I'll drop out with only $10K in debt. We all weren't taking a giant risk. Many of us took very calculated, smart financial decisions.

I too graduated from the third tier with minimal debt, was ranked #4 in my class and landed Biglaw.

110,

Riiiight. The Prez should have just cut taxes, yes? Yawn.

111 - many are hurting. but they chose that route. any kid at any school who is not top 25% after first semester grades should drop out.

113, well Obama is cutting income taxes for 95% of the population, including the 40% who don't pay income taxes. I thought tax cuts don't stimulate the economy? How confusing.

Sorry you studied and worked hard to pull yourself into the top 5% of the population as measured by income. Even though you have student loans, the 95% think it's only fair that you pay more in taxes.

"Lower the rate of interest on federal loans, both stafford (6.8%) and Graduate Plus (8.5%)"

Jeeze, is that what people are paying nowadays? I pay less than that on my credit card (well, less than 8.5% anyway).

At my tier 3 school, all of the top 15 kids in the class have full scholarships and biglaw. I know the rest may not, but most wanted government anyways.

Guys in my high school would rack up 250K in debt all the time. It was no big deal

Guys in my high school would rack up 250K in debt all the time. It was no big deal

115, No tax cuts don't stimulate the economy. Yawn. That 40% not paying taxes includes every child and retired person, and people barely making povery level wages. Yaaaawn.

I pay my student loans. I took responsibility for them, so I'm not going to whine too much about it.

Guys in my high school would take mind-altering substances known colloquially as "Spice" and proclaim themselves the messiah while sweeping the known universe with their still-suit covered cronies all the time. It was no big deal.

120, then why is Obama pushing his tax cuts as a way to boost the economy? Like his Making Work Pay credit*?
Do you understand that there is little difference between tax cuts and government spending? That a $2000 Pell Grant is economically equivalent to a $2000 education tax credit to the same person?

* People who earn more than $100k do not count as "working" for purposes of this credit.

Also, that's 40% of income-earning households. The poverty line is set much lower than that. Most children don't form their own households. That is all.

43 you're a moron and dick. 40 had to contextualize it somehow. Former first year wouldn't suggest how it happened. He or she was a first year and they were laid off. Perfectly accurate statement. You sir are a moron and likely some asian brat with a complex.

To everyone in this "forum":

You are all lawyers or law students and are very hard workers. You guys set up plans and goals to get that life that you always wanted. You are obviously rational people.

But SERIOUSLY, what is your plan to pay off your loans? Is there some big plan that you have? OR do you guys just go, "I will just work off my loans once I get a job?"

Student loan rates are indeed that high now. Double that for my "good" credit cards. All because of my debt to income ratio, ie I have too much student loan debt than I can ever think about paying off and save any money between now and the time I DIE!

On a 30 year plan...I end up paying 2x the value of the loans in interest. = I pay 3x the amount I borrowed. While those assholes flit around the world in their jets and kick thier feet up at their posh estates. FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!

I say, confiscate 75% of the assets of all major creditor's executives and sell them to Dubai or convert the estates into co-ops. It's not like they really earned it.

Besides, has anyone else not noticed newcomers to the Fortune 500? WHY ARE CREDITORS ON THERE AT ALL!?

Student loan rates are indeed that high now. Double that for my "good" credit cards. All because of my debt to income ratio, ie I have too much student loan debt than I can ever think about paying off and save any money between now and the time I DIE!

On a 30 year plan...I end up paying 2x the value of the loans in interest. = I pay 3x the amount I borrowed. While those assholes flit around the world in their jets and kick thier feet up at their posh estates. FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!

I say, confiscate 75% of the assets of all major creditor's executives and sell them to Dubai or convert the estates into co-ops. It's not like they really earned it.

Besides, has anyone else not noticed newcomers to the Fortune 500? WHY ARE CREDITORS ON THERE AT ALL!?

England has Hugh Laurie, and now this. Hot damn, America is a TTT!

Do you feel like you are cursed?

Many of you law students are probably people in their mid 20's who have lived a blessed life so far. What I mean is that it seems like yesterday that you guys were children who were enjoying Power Rangers, X-Men, Playstation, comfort with your parents, no stress about life choices, etc.

But now it is as if your life is cursed. You went to law school and are in debt. This debt may or may not be paid off. You feel like you are no longer the smartest or the most significant person in the world. It's like your goals and dreams may never be met, upsetting that inner innocent child (you) from your past.

Let me tell you about Saul from the bible. He was a blessed man. He was blessed by god and lived a blessed life. But God giveth and so he taketh. That is what happened to Saul.

However, if you go to his story in the bible, there is a prayer specifically made to cure this disposition. The prayer is this and I want you to say it with me:

"Dear God, I have lived a blessed life and have taketh from you without after thought. I have become a gluttonous person who have become apathetic to my spirit. Please enter into my soul once more, so I will become a stronger christian to better serve you."

Elie, you stupid fucking retard....we would still have to pay for it...just at lower interest!! So instead of 150,000 + interest, you pay 150,000...the vast majority of what you took out. How is that not having to pay for it, you dumbfuck!?

Anyone on this board - and beyond - who will be weighed down by any large amount of student loans - be it 50K or 200K should get on board w/ a 0% interest rate. Who gives a fuck if some people ended up with more debt than others because they went to higher ranked more expensive schools - we're all graduating in a shitty economy, some with jobs, some with jobs deferred, many with no jobs.

It's just like lawyers - well, law students anyhow - to be total in-human assholes who can't see this is a win-win situation for ALL LAW STUDENTS/GRADS.

What is wrong with you people? You don't want interest rates to go down because it will help someone else more than it will help you? you should be ashamed of yourselves.

128

Thanks but I'll stick with the Orange Catholic bible and Zensunni beliefs.

129, will you lend me some money and let me pay you the exact same amount 10 years from now with near-zero interest? Thanks. Can you make it everything you got? The time value of money has apparently no meaning to you.

130,

So I got into Columbia yet went to a lower ranked school for free. I have to fight for interviews, keep my job, will never work at some places all because I was fiscally responsible and sold prestige for financial security. How the fuck do we win for making sound decisions by letting your "I don;t know how to look to the future" selves off. FUCK YOU. You're the ones who gave me a look during our summer associate experience when asked where I went. You all were the assholes to me. Inferiority complex? You bet your ass I feel inferiior when the likes of you guys go "Oh, well, where's that school? Queens? Do you know someone who works here?" Or when I said I lived in Yonkers and you asked "really, why? The city is soo much better. Why? You COMMUTE? Why?" Because my rent is 1/3 the price and I did not have an income as I was a full-time fucking student!!!!!

Fuck you pretentious assholes. I have yet to meet a columbia or nyu law graduate who is not an asshole. So until then, I hope you all get fucked over by your pretentious, self-created system.

If one was really in a pinch and wanted to avoid repaying interest OR principal, I might suggest acquiring a homestead in Texas .... tough place to enforce a judgment

Agreed. There's no way NYU ior Columbia is worth it. If you got in there, why not go to Texas for 1/3 the price. Market pay. Stupid, stupid prestige whores.

MysTTTal,

You fat fucking piece of shit, quit whinning about these student loans. Blacks and minorities already get every advantage imaginable, now you want them to have a free ride too.

A Student Loan Bailout only punishes people like me who have the financial wherewithal to afford to pay for law school legitimately. If you couldn't afford it then you made a stupid fucking decision and now you have to own up to it. End so, forgiving your student loans won't make your TTT degree worth anything.

NO STUDENT LOAN BAILOUT.

MysTTTal,

You fat fucking piece of shit, quit whinning about these student loans. Blacks and minorities already get every advantage imaginable, now you want them to have a free ride too.

A Student Loan Bailout only punishes people like me who have the financial wherewithal to afford to pay for law school legitimately. If you couldn't afford it then you made a stupid fucking decision and now you have to own up to it. Even so, forgiving your student loans won't make your TTT degree worth anything.

NO STUDENT LOAN BAILOUT.

47 - I'm sick of the "you should have taken the scholarship to X" argument. If everyone other than trustafarians and people with full rides to HYSCCN went to lower ranked schools, a) there would be classes of 50 in HYSCCN, and b) not everyone that would be otherwise qualified would get said scholarship b/c of oversubscription. So, if had a 4.0 GPA and a 173 on the LSAT, and decided to take a scholarship, it would be to SMU, not Cornell Do you see why your argument is simplistic and shitty?

138, if people stopped paying full fare to the expensive schools, those schools would have to lower their tuition to respond to the reduced demand. Those without scholarships would still have less student loan debt. The tuition would fall back to the 1970s-levels, before student loans became widely available and vastly increased demand.
Do you see why your argument is so simplistic and shitty?

Hell, I would just be happy if I could
(1) deduct my student loan interest, and
(2) I could have refinanced my consolidation loan back when they rates were low and the kids were getting 2% interest rates.

To me, that seems like a pretty good deal!

85/88 - where the fuck were you in 2005/06, when I made my decision. Probably saying, "Go to the best law school you can get into." I'm sick of this Monday morning quarterbacking bullshit.

139 - so all of the prospective law students that get into HYSCCN (class of 2012) but can't pay with their parent's checkbook should do what? Reminder - there are only a few scholarships available at each lower school.

142, they can not go to law school, go somewhere else cheaper, or take out loans to go there and eventually pay them back.

Just because you're able to buy a nice house to live in doesn't mean you have to buy it, or that you can renege on your mortgage used to buy that house.

135 - Non-resident UT law tuition is 43k.

Elie, there's already a "world where students can achieve the highest and best education possible without ever having to pay for it."

It's called "most of continental Europe."

130,

I'm a lawyer with no debt. A bailout wouldn't help me in the slightest.

Elie,

I get that the loan bailout thing is your shtick. But you're walking a fine line between providing journalistic entertainment geared to a certain demographic and all-out personal crusade soap-boxing. Bear in mind that not all of your readers -- not all law students, and not all lawyers -- are on board with the idea of an all-out bailout. Even those of us who are registered Democrats (I am), who voted for Obama (I did), and who despise the unscrupulous lenders (I do) favor simply bailing students out and wiping the slate clean. Aside from the fact that what's *actually* needed is a complete overhaul of a broken system (a bailout is a poorly-constructed bandaid AT BEST), you're the editor of a legal tabloid, not a personal blog. Your job here is to entertain us with legal news and gossip. You want to crusade for your bailout idea, fine -- but make your own personal blog to do it. Coopting Lat's popularity and abusing your position to get your message out to a wider audience is a cheap move. Hell, even make an announcement on ATL that you're starting a personal blog. I don't care. But stop posting this shit here. THIS BLOG IS NOT YOUR SOAPBOX.

I am a graduating CLS student with 185k in loans. I don't want a bailout. But I think being allowed to fully deduct student loan interest is fair, given that we allow the same for mortgages and HELOC loans. For those of us with taxable income, this would go an awful long way towards solving the problem.

That should have read "NOT even all of us who are..."

85 - the average law school debt (of $80k) is an AVERAGE. It includes people who had full scholarships and parents who paid part or all of their tuition.

I don't know very many people who walked away with less than $115k, and I REALLY don't know why basic math terms are so difficult for lawyers/law students/ATL trolls to interpret.

47 - You need to check your facts. In many cases, third tiers charge MORE, and offer fewer or no scholarships.

Lawyers are way too prestige conscious, but you're all upset about a phantom problem. Law school is expensive, and federal loans are capped. Every school in the country is going to require private loan debt (and your work-while-in-school-thing is a JOKE - if you don't get the firm summer, you intern, or you will be screwed).

Private loan debt is:
- not discharged in bankruptcy
- not subject to federal rules or oversight
- has a six-month "forbearance" period at best, and lots of places don't even offer that.

It is an unregulated industry run amock.

Why!? Why must you make me hope? 0% is a fantasy.

As of a few minutes ago, I was thankful and smug to be sitting in an hotel room, gainfully employed, trusted by a partner to take party depositions in another part of the state.

Now I have bitter blazing false hope pulsing in my chest that my law school loan interest will be banished.

Curses!

133, wow, issues much? not everyone who went to a top school is an asshole.
maybe you should use all that money you saved going to a shit law school on therapy instead of being angry at people who didn't create the prestige-whoring system in the first place, but made an equally rational decision, deciding that the name school was worth the cost.

130 has it right, stop hating.
i'd be happy with an interest bailout or even reduction.

I'm a douchebag.

Sincerely,
7

No bailouts for student loans. We need this generation of debt-laden law students (and lawyers) suffering under the immense pressure of their prestigious degrees, unemployment, and largely empty, meaningless lives to help future generations of students to understand the long-term financial and risks of going to law school. If you are laid off with loads of debt and that handy law degree, know that you will someday help future law students make the rational choices that you did not. Yes, it is irrational to ignore the financial risks of paying 40k+ tuition entirely on student loans and assuming the economy would grow at rates never seen in the history of this country.

PE- Finals getting you down? Car 54 where are you?

PE- Finals getting you down? Car 54 where are you?

No.

We definitely do not need to make this happen.

And I say that as someone with six figures of debt.

Using the fact that everybody has their own special interest to justify your or my special interest leads to just one thing: modern-day California on the verge of bankruptcy.

That's our future if we keep taking this route.

That's beside the fact that subsidizing and aiding people in paying tuition will just do exactly what it's done for the past five decades--allowing schools to jack up the cost of tuition.

Screw handouts. Screw the idea of me paying for them and just cut the federal budget.

Seriously people, Elie certainly paid off his loans before thumbing his nose at big law and jumped ship to this "fun" job. Elie?

"Don't worry guys, all your financial troubles will go away when Obama raises taxes on single people making over $200k and married people making over $125k each. See, when we raise taxes on you, it's easier for you to pay back your student loans."

Uh, Obama's tax raises are still 10% lower than taxes were for those people under Reagan. Stupid republicans.

110 - You forget, 1) Bush's sleight of hand accounting left off a few minor things: all the money spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (you know, those insignificant little events) which he snuck in under "supplemental" spending later on, Medicaid spending, and the $250B he borrowed from Social Security. Whoops!

Yeah, not only is Obama cleaning up Bush's mess, starting to pay for shit he put our country in debt for, he's also doing it with transparency: He's including all the things in his budget that Bush left out. Read it. Get your facts straight, and for christs sake quit watching Fox News before you turn into a Rush Robot.

Once again, let me remind all of you people that say we're "shirking our responsibility" if the government lowers our interest rates that the situation we are in is completely, 100% different than what you dealt with. Graudates as recent as the 2007 class had the option of consolidating their loans to 4% or lower. 2009 graudates have seen tuition and cost of living increases (I was paying $4/gallon for gas this time last year!) every single year since they started in 2006. Couple that with doubled interest rates (8.5%) and no consolidation options (because all lending has gone out the window) and what you have is people whose degrees cost A LOT more than yours, whose loans are on A LOT worse terms than yours were, and a job market that is A CRAP TON worse than anyone has seen for decades.

You can't put all those things together and say that we're "shirking responsibility" if we get a well-deserved break on interest rates. The 2006 entering class did absolutely nothing to precipitate any of these problems, we just went to law school when it was reasonably cheap and when the job market was positively blowing up with $160k starting salaries and Biglaw jobs for anyone who could muster a top 25% finish in their regional law school.

And before you pile on about how I should have gone to a cheaper school - I moved and worked for a year between undergrad and law school to get in-state tuition, went to the cheapest law school in the state, lived like a freaking pauper for the last three years, worked part-time jobs throughout school, and I saved up my summer associate dollars to pay my tuition (but I still needed to take out a little in subsidized stafford to cover my last semester). The cost of my education despite those prudent choices? $80k at 8.5% interest.

Have a heart, people. It wouldn't kill you to help us out a little - I would be glad to return the favor.

Elie - good job on picking a beneficial policy for the legal community and using this platform to spread the word. Ignore those commenters that say this is a bad idea: I can't understand why these people are bitter at us because they graduated at a time when loans were reasonable, costs of school and living were relatively low, and available jobs were abundant. I love how every last one of them acts as if it was their, and ONLY their, contributions that made their current prosperity possible.

161, it's not that we're bitter at you for asking for a bailout; it's this ridiculous notion you have that this benefits "everyone" in the legal community. It doesn't, and in fact is actually a detriment to many of us.

I understand and share your frustration at seeing other people get bailouts while you're still holding the bag. I get it. But rather than feeling like this bailout would finally be something to help me, instead it would feel like yet ANOTHER bailout for some OTHER interest group while I'm STILL paying at least as much in taxes as everyone else but with no bailout to show for it.

If you're going to ask for my tax dollars, don't try to fucking guilt me into it. Do some fucking research. Show me why a student loan bailout benefits ME in some way. Does it improve the educational system? Does it help restore solvency to the overall economy? Will it lead to innovation? What are the ways that it helps someone who doesn't directly benefit from the bailout? Sitting here and accusing me of being bitter does little to convince me of the merits of your request.

162 - Does welfare benefit you in any way. Personally, I've never had to take advantage of it, but I sure as hell will when I get laid off.

I AM SICK OF MY TAXES BEING RAISED TO PAY OFF SOMEONE ELSE'S DEBT!!!!!!!!

163, yeah, 'cause threats are an effective argument.