Career Alternatives for (Laid-Off) Lawyers: Interior Designer
Every once in while, we like to explore career alternatives for attorneys, i.e., things you can do with a law degree that don’t involve Biglaw or contract attorney work. These days, we’ve come to think of the series of open threads as things you might do if you can’t find Biglaw or contract work.
Do you have a passion for Extreme Makeover: Home Edition and HGTV? When you walk into a room, do you immediately judge the color scheme? Do you spend an inordinate amount of time rearranging doc review boxes to maintain the proper feng shui in your office? Maybe you should consider a second career in interior design.
Gordon Chin, a real estate lawyer and American University Law ‘99 grad, has always had an interest in design work. Since being laid off by Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell in November, it’s become his full-time gig. To see his ultra-modern style, check out this Washington Examiner piece [PDF] on him (though the article’s a bit cliched, describing his style as “unpretentious yet somehow still sophisticated”).
Chin told us:
I’ve always done design work on the side, but given the slowdown in big-law, I’ve found more time to devote to my passion. I’m currently working with some clients in the DC area — everything from interior design, to staging services….Projects range in scope and size — some include entire rowhomes/townhomes, others are consulting with paint colors or staging, assisting clients with shopping or selecting decorative pieces.
A Q&A with Chin, and the bright side of being laid off, after the jump.
It helped that Chin got his start doing design work on the side while working as an attorney, as he slowly built up his client base. Most of his work comes now from referral or word of mouth. His clients include attorneys, realtors, restaurant owners, and Hill staffers.
Kash: How does design work compare to practicing law?GC: They are both creative in a sense, so very similar. However, interior design is more of a creative outlet for me. I’d like to think I was always a very good real estate attorney for my developer and lender clients, paying attention to details (that one comma in the wrong place makes a world of difference), so in that sense, the two fields are similar because in design, it also comes down to the finish details — the details make the room. As a very Type-A person, I think I was successful in law, and now I’m seeing the same in interior design. I enjoy both — practicing law and design — however, design comes with less structure, and more ability to think outside the box. I find myself working on weekends to cater to clients’ schedules, so it’s not that different from when I had to go into the office on weekends. No billable hours quota is a plus!
Kash: Would you ever have taken the leap into full-time design work if you hadn’t been laid off?
GC: I probably would not have had as much time to devote to the design side of my life if I were still at a large law firm billing away, but would have certainly still done some design work on the side. It would have just been more difficult to find the time for design — late evenings, weekends, etc. I have been designing spaces for family and friends for quite some time — probably since I started practicing law in 1998. If I had not been laid off, I probably would not have had the time to do a few things which have helped get me exposure in the design world: (1) audition for HGTV’s Design Star tv-reality show (I did not make it into the finals though); and (2) be featured in the local home section of the Washington Examiner newspaper.
Kash: Does your legal training help in any way in your current design work?
GC: I think my legal training and background is valuable in everyday life, including in the design work. I use contracts when working on certain design projects, so I am able to infuse legalese into the contracts I enter into and understand the legal mumbo-jumbo in the contracts. In real estate transactions things are very methodical, so I tend to also apply that to my design — there is always a reason for the design, right down to the small accessories on the coffee table. Another perk of having practiced law for so many years in DC is the network of contacts — this has proved to be a good source of referrals for design projects. I have worked on many projects through friends of friends or former colleagues, etc.
Chin hasn’t ruled out a return to the legal world. But he’ll be focused on the laws of design until the legal market picks back up.
Condo serves as owner’s own “oasis in the city” (PDF) [Washington Examiner]
(92) Comments
Comments
Interior designers are worse than car salesmen. They overcharge (typically 100%-400%) a premium over the decor and furnishings you purchase through them, which they pocket as a commission. Mr. Chin has moved from lawyer to something less than a car salesman. I am surprised he is alive to tell his disgraceful tale.
Not smart. After losing your job in America's second shakiest sector (BigLaw), you head right for.... America's most risky sector (real estate and anything related to real estate). Why not noonlight as a mortgage broker, too? Jeesh.
I'm not one to harp on grammar mistakes, but "legal-ease"? Seriously? That's just embarrassing.
DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE ECONOMY! Here's my take on it:
Once you guys pass the bar and become lawyers, you can apply to a small firm. Things will be rough, but everyone gets pass obstacles. After all, there cannot be success without failure!! Once you have that, you will gain experience and have a better resume.
Next, you can then try out for bigger firms where you will get the job. Once you have a good job, you will make money and pay off your debts. When that is all said and done, you will be able to leave work in the afternoon to play golf and drink wine with hot blondes. Everyone will point to you and go, "He's a lawyer! He's got it made," while you put on your sunglasses and drive in a BMW.
Right after all of that, a unicorn from Lollipop land will come to you and ask for your help to fight the evil Warlord from Gumdrop planet. You will then set off to fight him and become Master of America.
gay
i thought this would be another post where MysTTTal stalks a racist
bravo to him about being proactive. the legal market is saturated anyway with all those ex-Heller Drones and Thelenites, Thacher Proffitters--better to just get out of the law and find something else you are good at!
PE are you a 1L?
PE: I thought I told you to shut up.
You tried to do schtick on a suicide. No one cares what you have to say. We're not laughing with or at you.
Just disappear.
Hey guys, just a stupid question:
Is it legal to sell your current or used barbri or PMBR books? They are your property, right? There's nothing in your contract with the company that prevents you from selling, or even loaning the book to some one else? I've seen tons of used books online (including some that were just released this summer), so I'm assuming there's nothing illicit about it.
If I was laid off by Locke Lord, I would sell vacuums to SMU students.
Hey, 10 - I think if you sold your books, BarBri or PMBR might have a claim for promissory estoppel. I'm not sure about this, but I bet there's a section of the Restatement that speaks directly to this situation.
10 - You're good bro sell them, just don't do it before you know you have passed...Also please don't gouge other students on the prices thats kind of a dick thing to do plus BAD KARMA always catches up to you
(PE I'm looking at you pal...you're postings have definitely earned you either
1. a flock of 100 bird's shitting on your car right after you washed it
2. A really hot chick you are dating and eventually hook up with turning out to be a dude.
OR
3. A really hot chick that you are dating and eventually hook up with turning out to be a dude AND your cousin Jake from Connecticut that you haven't seen since you were yrs old)
You have been warned.
No. 1 (partner emeritus). You're likely an old, has-been, over the hill old guy who has no style or talent, not even as a lawyer. Perhaps that's why you are so bitter on life, the legal profession, and those like the laid off associate trying to earn a living. One can only guess that you are nothing more than bitter...at life and all. If you're stupid enough agree to pay 400% over the price of something, then you obviously do not need to be a lawyer and your law degree is not worth the paper it's printed on. Give the guy some credit for following his passion and making lemon-ade out of lemons. Enjoy your life and stop being bitter.
No. 1 (partner emeritus). You're likely an old, has-been, over the hill old guy who has no style or talent, not even as a lawyer. Perhaps that's why you are so bitter on life, the legal profession, and those like the laid off associate trying to earn a living. One can only guess that you are nothing more than bitter...at life and all. If you're stupid enough agree to pay 400% over the price of something, then you obviously do not need to be a lawyer and your law degree is not worth the paper it's printed on. Give the guy some credit for following his passion and making lemon-ade out of lemons. Enjoy your life and stop being bitter.
No. 1 (partner emeritus). You're likely an old, has-been, over the hill old guy who has no style or talent, not even as a lawyer. Perhaps that's why you are so bitter on life, the legal profession, and those like the laid off associate trying to earn a living. One can only guess that you are nothing more than bitter...at life and all. If you're stupid enough agree to pay 400% over the price of something, then you obviously do not need to be a lawyer and your law degree is not worth the paper it's printed on. Give the guy some credit for following his passion and making lemon-ade out of lemons. Enjoy your life and stop being bitter.
No. 1 (partner emeritus). You're likely an old, has-been, over the hill old guy who has no style or talent, not even as a lawyer. Perhaps that's why you are so bitter on life, the legal profession, and those like the laid off associate trying to earn a living. One can only guess that you are nothing more than bitter...at life and all. If you're stupid enough agree to pay 400% over the price of something, then you obviously do not need to be a lawyer and your law degree is not worth the paper it's printed on. Give the guy some credit for following his passion and making lemon-ade out of lemons. Enjoy your life and stop being bitter.
#14-17? Problems with ATL site? Multiple posts?
Hey 5. "Gay" what? Are you claiming coming out of the closet? Or you saying he's gay? Either way, does it matter? I think not.
So what if he is? If you are, get back into the closet the gays don't want you.
14 - PE is actually a 1L at a third tier law school. He was outted by a classmate on another post. You got the bitter part right though. (and the stupid part).
PE (#1). I agree with #9, just disappear. No one wants your input. Peace out.
Ditch diggers are needed, laid off lawyers welcomed. Street sweepers needed, laid off lawyers welcomed. Shit eaters needed, laid off lawyers welcomed, given their experience with eating shit while working with BigLaw. There are many things that a person can do, but do you really want to do them.
11, huh? Vacums to SMU? Hope you don't get laid off. I heard Locke didn't hire you.
No 3 harp all you to your heart's content. The guy is probably making more bucks as a designer than he was in Biglaw (and likely more than you).
Did Locke Lord have layoffs? Did not hear about them on ATL. Stealth layoffs?
Gay or not #5 & #19. He's a cutie.
Kudos to him for getting out of biglaw life. It ain't what it's cracked up to be. I'm still in it. Good $$$, but terrible life.
I wanna buy a vacuum.
That's great but what are the options for straight guys?
That's great but what are the options for straight guys?
That's great but what are the options for straight guys?
That's great but what are the options for straight guys?
I'd buy a vacum from him.
Straight guys can be designers. Not all designers are gay. Some are women. Some are straight guys that just have talent. If you're a hot straight guy, stripper? Escort? Just kidding of course. Find a hobby and if you can make a living at it, then do it. A buddy of mine (ex-marine & straight) was laid off from biglaw and started his own outdoor adventures biz. His venture is taking off and doing well. Lots of laid off people with time on their hands and have paid for his outdoor adventures (camping, whitewater and stuff). Straight guy #32, you can find something you're good at. This guy (whether straight or gay) must have thought he was good at design and decided to do something with it. People will pay for something if you're good at it.
#26 = Lat, obvious.
#26 = Lat, obvious.
#26 = Lat, obvious.
#26 = Lat, obvious.
22,
You mentioned "ditch diggers." I hear the term of "ditch digging" in ATL a lot.
The only digging that will be done around here is my fingers and the pants of the mom of whoever keeps using the "ditch digger" phrase in ATL.
And this was the one of the three American University grads from that year that had a non-legal aid job !!!
(Biglaw goes dumpster diving at American for minorities.)
20 - thank for letting us know. Does not surprise me that PE is a second-rate hack. Yeah, obviously bitter, ignorant and just jealous of other's successes. Life is too short all. Focus on yourselves and be happy.
Hey 40, jealous because you're not as good as American grad (or for that matter, anyone,whether it is Gtown, GW or even Catholic Uinv)? Did you go to top-tier? If so, bet you're still not as sharp as a grad from a third-tier school. Your ignorance shows through in your post above.
Anyone on here know if Locke Lord had mass layoffs? First I'm hearing about layoffs at Locke was this guy. Locke must be doing good job at hiding layoffs.
I need an interior designer...call me laid-off Locke Lord guy. yum!
Laid off Locke Lord guy gaurantees a happy ending or your money back.
that dude's doable....in a pinch.
that dude's doable....in a pinch.
Louis Zaccareli
#44, #46 = Lat, again. Keep your banana in your pants Lat! For crying out loud!
47 - doable? hottie!!!
I am straight guy that likes to design. Married with kids, so yes, straight. My business is extremely profitable. Former small-firm lawyer that decided to give up billable hours. Good luck to this guy.
Does LLBL have summer program or have they cut back like so many Texas based firms? Anyone know? Is Locke Lord still well regarded Texas firm since merger?
No. 46, you're probably out of luck. He likely has a boyfriend or girlfriend. Maybe married for all we know. Maybe not, he looks young.
I would hit that guy hard. I wonder if he's straight and likes white chicks. How old do you think he is?
You go girl (#54)!!! Work it.
Too bad he's on east coast. I'm in LA
10 - look into it, but I think there's some case law on this subject. As I remember, courts in different states have come out differently on the issue. Some have held that the first sale doctrine allows you to sell the books, while others have held that it is a violation of the agreement with barbri. Barbri would probably claim that they are only licensing the materials to you, much as software companies try to claim. I'd be willing to bet the contract you signed when signing up for barbri has something to say about this as well. Whether that agreement is valid or not probably depends on your jurisdiction's interpretation of the first sale doctrine.
10- check with BarBri
I think BarBri made me give the books back to get my deposit back.
come on, #34. no straight guys are designers. this is GAY.
come on, who really cares whether gay or straight?
54, let's tag team him :)
this is change we can believe in!!!
Locke Lord does hire good looking attorneys
It was my understanding that American University was the best law school for Asia. Can anyone confirm this?
65
It's the best law school for gay asian americans as well.
66
What is the basis of your post?
65
For real?
65
For real? The whole continent?
Admittedly, I have developed a huge crush on Kash (thank you, Facebook). I am actually in the middle of composing a sonnet in her honor. Is there a word that rhymes with lobster?
Wow, such negatives. I am actually impressed that Mr. Chin is doing something while out of work, and it's even better that he's doing something he can excel in even after the economy turns around. I know many people who need help to either a) better their current house, b) need help selling their house and need a few tips, c) just bought a house and need some advice, or d) bought a foreclosed property and need a lot of help. Even though he did not choose to be laid off, Mr. Chin's timing could not be better to transition in to a new career. I hope he succeeds, as I hope the rest of us do.
70 - "mobster"
Kash are you trying to hook Lat up with this guy? He is a good catch!
70 FTW.
Ack! Ouch! I caught teh gay!
Locke Lord most definitely had layoffs, but I heard they were mainly in real estate. They laid off first-years.
46
Doable? Try hot! Definitely boyfriend material. Educated, good looking, brains. Oh, yeah, and good looking.
77
You neglected to mention that he's a tiger in the sack and drives a sweet, sweet car - not to mention that fantastic sense of humour!
Kash,
Are you really that arrogant that you think "Biglaw and contract work" are the only types of law to practice and everything else should be considered a career alternative?? What about family law, criminal law, immigration law? What is wrong with you people? It is amazing to me as I read your posts and the comments, how self-centered, ignorant and devoid of substance you all are!
I like Kash! You go girl. Ignore the haters on here.
76
Are there more layoffs at Locke on the way? I turned down offer from LLBL to NYC job, but may want to consider practicing it DC or TX office.
78 - You must be a friend of the attorney-designer. Hook me up!
73, who is Lat?
I'm not big on Asian men but Gordon is a hot mo fo suh.
Yep, he's a hottie.
Locke Lord = sinking ship
Are more layoffs on the way for Locke? I heard they let partners go in the last set of layoffs in March. Talk seems to indicate that more on the way both in associate and partner ranks. Managing partners not safe either.
76 - How many were laid off in that round? Is real estate group dead at Locke Lord? Is there still substantial real estate group/practice at LLBL? Should clients looks elsewhere?
This guy can come decorate my place anytime. He's a hottie.
Yeah 89, he is a cutie patootie, alright.
Big meeting of all partners at LLBL today. More layoffs? Anyone know the scoop?
91, word on the street is they voted out a managing partner of the firm. Any LLBL'ers know anything?