Breaking Back into Biglaw
Yesterday we participated in an extremely interesting panel discussion, Breaking Back into a Large Law Firm: How to Make Your Way Back into a Top Law Firm. It was part of a day-long conference, co-sponsored by the New York City Bar and Vault, entitled Getting Back in the Game: How to Restart Your Career in a Down Economy.
The panel consisted of:
BRIAN DALTON (moderator), Managing Editor, Vault.com, and Editor, Vault Guide to the Top 100 Law Firms;JOHN J. CANNON III, Hiring Partner, Shearman & Sterling LLP;
T.J. DUANE, Principal, Lateral Link;
HELEN LONG, Director Legal Recruiting at Ropes & Gray LLP; and
DAVID LAT, Founding Editor, AboveTheLaw.com.
Write-ups of the discussion have appeared on the websites of the New York Times, Vault, and the ABA Journal. We recommend them to you.
We’ve also prepared our own summary of the discussion, which goes into greater detail than the other write-ups. It tackles such topics as general recommendations for the job search, when to use a recruiter (and when not to), how contract work is viewed by prospective employers, and what happens to your résumé after you send it into the cyber-ether and it arrives at a firm.
Read more, after the jump.
Here’s a rough write-up of the discussion. Please consider these remarks to be paraphrased (unless otherwise indicated, with quotation marks). We’ve focused on the remarks of the other panelists because our comments are accurately captured in Jennifer 8. Lee’s NYT post (and because you hear enough from us anyway).
What recommendations would you offer to people seeking to break back into Biglaw?
JOHN CANNON: Financial services work is on the wane; regulatory work will boom. You should do something that keeps you up-to-date on the latest regulatory developments. Perhaps try to approach a law professor and try to co-author an article for publication.
T.J. DUANE: You need to be patient. A hiring process that used to take two to three weeks will now take two to three months. Firms are looking for very specific skill sets — and they are taking their time about filling positions.
You need to make yourself the most desirable candidate. If you haven’t done so already, rewrite your résumé from scratch. Anything on your résumé that’s generic, that could have appeared on someone else’s résumé — e.g., “drafted asset purchase agreements; prepared witnesses for depositions” — is filler. Get rid of it. If you’re an experienced attorney, you need a detailed deal sheet or representative matter sheet, showing what you’ve worked on.
HELEN LONG: The good news is that some firms are hiring. As a job seeker, you need to be both focused and flexible. You want to be focused, insofar as you shouldn’t have an “I’ll take anything” mindset; you should zero in on opportunities that would be a good fit for you, given your background and experience. At the same time, be flexible. For example, you should be open to internships that could turn into full-time positions.
When should you work with a recruiter?
T.J. DUANE: In limited cases. Candidates who are referred by recruiters come with fees attached. In a boom market, recruiters add considerable value, because they have connections and credibility with the law firms. But this is not a boom market.
You should generally NOT use a recruiter if (1) you’ve been laid off and/or (2) you’re trying to make a transition to a different practice area. You’d be better off finding a friend who already works at that firm and having them pass along your resume to their recruiting department.
If you’re looking to switch markets — e.g., you want to move from New York to a smaller legal market — it may help to work with a recruiter who knows that market.
How can you reenter the workforce after a voluntary absence (e.g., to take care of your kids)?
HELEN LONG: I did this; I took time off to raise my kids. If you take time off from the workforce, you should try to stay in the game somehow. For example, you can organize or attend conferences. You can take or teach classes, which is what I did — I taught business law to undergraduates.
Employers may question your professional commitment when you return to the work force. You should prepare your “elevator speech” — a short, concise explanation about why you’re ready and prepared to come back.
If I’ve done contract work while looking for a full-time job, how will that be viewed by prospective employers?
JOHN CANNON: There’s no stigma to contract work. People need to put food on the table. And sometimes a contract job can lead to full-time employment.
That said, you shouldn’t rely just on contract work. Try to do other things as well — e.g., attend CLE courses, network, try to write and publish in your field, etc.
HELEN LONG: Contract work is fine, but if you don’t want to be a contract attorney forever, then you should try to move on after a few years. It’s better to move on to a small or midsize firm, where you’ll get substantive experience, than not to move on at all.
What happens to job applications and résumés when they get sent into law firms?
HELEN LONG: If a candidate comes through a recruiter, then either I or my manager will review that résumé. We have good relationships with recruiters that we want to maintain.
If an application is simply sent in unsolicited, then a lower-level employee in the recruiting department will review it. A subset of these applications will be forwarded on to me for my review.
If an attorney within the firm forwards a résumé to me, then I will look at it personally. It helps to know someone “on the inside.” That said, most of the time we still won’t have a job opening for that person. “We’re getting a wall of paper…. for very few positions.”
JOHN CANNON: If I get an application that is referred to me by a client or a colleague, then I’ll open up the attachment and read the résumé. If it’s sent in unsolicited, I’ll forward it to the recruiting department.
What about deferred associates — will they really be able to join their firms at the end of the deferral period?
JOHN CANNON: Most firms would be ill-advised to go back on their promises to take in deferred associates. That said, the future is unknown. If you’re a deferred associate, it’s quite possible you might find a new opportunity if you look around.
T.J. DUANE: One option to keep in mind for your deferral year is to work in-house for a company. When you return to your firm, you’ll have a client relationship. (For more details, see here.)
If you’ve been laid off, how should you address that fact in your job search?
HELEN LONG: It’s a question of framing. You can acknowledge that until recently, you were at firm X. In this economic climate, people can draw inferences.
T.J. DUANE: You should be honest about your situation. Dishonesty could come back to haunt you.
Will firms hire attorneys for part-time positions?
This generated grim humor from the panelists. The upshot: firms already have people working part-time. They’re called associates.
Unemployed and Struggling Lawyers Seek Solace [City Room / New York Times]
Getting Back in the Game: Good morning, reality [Vault]
Jobs Are Scarce, But Stay Positive, Experts Tell Laid-Off NYC Lawyers [ABA Journal]




Comments
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The New York Times is not a credible source. Better luck next time.
how much did vault charge?
MOAR BREAKBACK
Fourth!
- 4
I was there. It sucked. Only fun I had was the two lines I did in the bathroom.
I was at the event. It was very worthwhile. The $30 registration included lunch.
Wait really? Someone in recruiting reviews your resume? And then might send it along to an attorney? I HAD NO IDEA!!!!!
I didn't know that unsolicited resumes get read. That seems like a waste of time for the firm.
Nice write up, thanks Lat.
Strange that 5 is unemployed.
I think Lat is gay. I am not positive, but I think so.
Nice use of the royal we, Lat.
and more bareback
Hi Lat, I was there along with about 199 of my closest friends from the breadline. I thought it was a great program, but don't you think your session should have been called "Not Breaking Back Into Biglaw"?
is networking helpful? answers please.
do you suppose the mining industry has symposiums titled Breaking Back into a Mountain?
These panels are useless w/o PE. We need him out there.
16
You better watch it. The PE-haters were out in force yesterday.
The guy in the bathroom doing coke tried to forcibly penetrate me at this event.
Seriously? Attend CLE courses. Network. Write an article.
Maybe John Cannon could help the criss by NOT FIRING ENTIRE CLASS YEARS OF ASSOCIATES! This greedy bastard fired the entire second-year class at his firm, then hired first-years to replace them for less.
John Cannon is a first-class douchebag. Karma's a bitch, Chuckles!
I have never been to the Shearman NYC office but I hear it is on par with Millbank NYC's office. Can anyone confirm?
2,
We non-ABCNY membersw had to cough up $50. But we got cornichons.
13/18 (first time I accidentally double-posted).
Shearman's office is a disgusting heap. Cravath's is much nicer.
I didn't pay anything. Lat let me sneak in through the back door.
There's still hope for the Class of 2009.
"...and they pull me back in!"
25 -- There is no hope for the class of 2009. 90% of the deferred associates will never start. Expect phone calls to be made late August/early September pushing back start dates again.
LaTTT
Nobody is starting again ever. That is all.
They charged Mystal triple at the door because they knew he was going to eat his weight in sandwiches.
29 nailed it.
"T.J. DUANE: One option to keep in mind for your deferral year is to work in-house for a company. When you return to your firm, you'll have a client relationship."
That's great advice! Why didn't I think of that? I'll just run out right now and snap up one of those always-available in-house positions. Problem solved, everyone. Thanks for the tip!
Nepotism.
done.
One option to keep in mind for your deferral year is to work in Obama's cabinet. When you return to your firm, you'll have a client relationship.
Even better, 34. I think I'll do that instead. Thanks!
--32
.3-Drank some coffee; 3.0-listensed to useless panel; .5-took a shit; 1.5-ate lunch.; 2.7-continually refreshed ATL and posted useless comments.
Where's the Thompson Hine guy??????????
They have an add in the OBar (weekly publication of the Ohio Bar Assn) advertising for an associate in Columbus. He can have his old job back!!!!!!!!
#36 = racist
27,
I disagree. I think at least half of the deferrees will start. Legal work will slowly come back and firms can use the class of 2009 to slash salaries and benefits. Firms will also maintain good relations with law schools for doing this. It will pay off in the long run for firms to take advantage of this downturn to remodel associate compensation.
How many of these genius panelists, do you guess, actually left a top law firm, and then made their way back into one. I'm guessing zero.
Lat is the smartest guy here.
40:
Excellent point!
Lat, what do you know about working as a lawyer? You got FIRED because you wrote a blog pretending to be wearing La Pearla panties, you big queen.
39 -- You're dreaming. Law firms care about one thing right now -- survival. They are not going to bring on new associates when they already have too much capacity.
43,
You're over exaggerating. Biglaw is not going anywhere.
not 39
42 - Lat didn't get fired, but he did shut down his first blog, Underneath Their Robes - http://underneaththeirrobes.blogs.com.
He went back to being a federal prosecutor, which he did for a few months before leaving the U.S. Attorney's Office to blog full-time for Wonkette.
I am guessing that Lat - 9th Circuit clerk, Wachtell associate, assistant U.S. attorney - knows more about working as a lawyer than you do.
@42 - I think you mean, La Perla.
Louis Ziccareli
Lat's advice (from the NYT article):
"1. Marry the general counsel of a Fortune 500 company.
2. Be adopted by the general counsel of a Fortune 500 company.
3. Pull a Rip Van Winkle and wake up when the market has revived."
Sadly, he is probably right. We just need to wait this out.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/unemployed-and-struggling-lawyers-seek-solace/
Hey PE!!!
FUCK YOU!!!!!!!
45,
And now he profits off of fear and panic. And hired Elie. Nice contribution to the legal profession, Lat.
49 - If you don't like ATL, don't read it.
I don't like you, 50. Go back to Texas.
Lat didn't pick Elie - WE did. Remember the ATL Idol contest, where We the Readers got to vote for the new editor?
Personally I think Elie is doing a fine job (typos notwithstanding).
Interesting read, even if not that helpful in terms of getting a job.
But that is not the fault of the panelists. There are just no jobs to be had.
MysTTTal
Small law is booming while Big law is collapsing. Maybe it's time to hang up the white shoes.
23, Cravath's office is going to be even better now that it is less crowded due to layoffs and start date deferrals/recessions.
MOAR BAREBACK
Skadden DC just announced across the board 10 percent pay cuts.
Skadden DC's office is a piece of shit compared to Cravath's in NYC.
I only knew T.J. DUANE for the best law firm
Cravath has nice offices, but you have to share until you're a third year.
Has the office sharing situation improved with all the stealth layoffs?
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/06/stealth_layoff_watch_laid_off.php
Got business? No? Then you are finished in biglaw, kids.
When the recovery comes, it it does, you will be 3-4 years out of the game, and a whole new crop of suckers will be there to get swindled with phony talk of partnership opportunities.
Well said 55. When will you people realize that there is an entire legal field out there beyond Big Law. Not to instigate a heated debate, but the Big Law business model has changed forever, and it will likely never return to what it once was. Don't take my word for it. Take the word of legal scholars such as Larry Ribstein of University of Illinois who has written extensively on this topic.
But the good news is that are plenty of opportunities out there beyond Big Law. Seriously, is working for a small to mid-size firm really the end of the world? Get over your egos and get a grip on reality.
40 - the whole program had sort of a surreal tone, with 20 people who have jobs telling 200 of us who don't how to get one.
64 - I'd rather get advice about how to find a job from someone who has one than from someone who doesn't.
Did unemployed people really pay $50 for this nonsense?
66 - I was there. The networking was as valuable as the panels. I picked up a ton of business cards (and a few job leads).
Looks like a lot of people are available for deportation to Salusa Secundus by the Imperial Bureau of Relocation.
Any advice for 3L's deferred until January '10? How should I spend my time?
67
The only people that are hiring are insurance defense sweatshops and slip and fall suit factories.
I agree with 52. I generally like Elie's posts, and I laugh at his asides pretty often. But he ate the shark with this cuckold story.
67: 66 here. I'm glad to hear that, actually. I hated the idea of these people stating the obvious and pocketing everybody's cash. Good luck to you.
Good q, 69. I'm in the same predicament, and interested as well.
Some positions for deferred associates are listed here:
http://abovethelaw.com/community/
Yeah, in house and small/mid firms would be great alternatives...but I have news, they're not exactly hiring by the boatload either. The govt, while also an outstanding employer by and large, has only limited opportunities outside NY and DC. Plus it takes forever and a day to get hired.
Many small and mid-firms are leery of biglaw refugees, thinking they'll bail when the economy bounces back. And they're probably right.
i'm at a small firm and i've been looking for a new job since i got in the door. teehee
73 -- I guess we should try and so something productive, but it's tough to find something for only 4 months. I will have enough money to survive ($10k), but it would be nice to supplement that with a part time job.
73 -- I guess we should try and so something productive, but it's tough to find something for only 4 months. I will have enough money to survive ($10k), but it would be nice to supplement that with a part time job.
69/73 - I'm in the same boat.
I was actually wondering whether law firms will take what we do in the Fall into consideration if/when they give some of us the axe. If I work my ass off this Fall and get canned in favor of someone who vacations in Thailand for 4 months, I might as well drop out of Bar/Bri and forget about ever being a lawyer.
Also, is there a good way (is it even worth doing) to inform the firm of what we're up to this Fall?
Please advise, thanks.
69/73: Stop reading above the law and study your barbri stuff so you can actually start in the winter.
78
Part time jobs can be found in your local bodega. Otherwise, STFU.
79 -- that would be messed up if they did that, but i suppose anything is possible.
To all of you not so bright people. This post, if you haven't figured out is nothing but a 3-way marketing maneuver between Abovethelaw, laterlink and the big firms. This is how abovethelaw and laterlink make their money. Whether it is worthwhile or not has nothing to do with it. I would surmise that many of the positive comments on this event are nothing more than Abovethelaw editors posting accolades. Don't be so naive.
83 - The event was sponsored by the NYC Bar and Vault. If you want to spout conspiracy theories, you should involve them too.
Also, I tend to doubt that law firms are in bed with ATL. If they were in cahoots, then ATL should say nicer things about Biglaw.
Deferred associates should look at nycservice.org for short-term volunteer opportunities.
Does anyone know when Helen Long, one of the panelists, went to Ropes & Gray? She used to be at STB. Did she get.... FIRED?
I urge anyone who thinks they might possibly be interested in fed govt employment to check usajobs weekly and apply for every job you can. The selection process can seem interminable but many of the jobs are excellent. None of the salaries can compete with BigLaw, but many agencies have pay scales better than the GS schedule - I'm five years out and make $145k in Chicago...yes, I know it's not a lot but the work is wonderful with lots of autonomy/responsibility and you rarely work more than 40 hrs/wk. I work a 4x10 schedule and work from home a couple of days per week on average. Every weekend is 3 days. More time to devote to family and hobbies...and more job security than most other attorney positions [especially once you get a few years in]. Anyway, our agency will be hiring once the new appropriation is passed, especially in DC and NYC - give it some thought. If any of you are veterans, remember you get a formal preference in fed govt hiring. Good luck to all.
let me get this straight...break BACK into BigLaw??
Didn't you just ESCAPE from BigLaw?? (and got paid a nice severance)
I'm so confused...
Very decent of you, 87.
83 is correct. It is no coincidence that laterlink inundates this website. They are in bed with ATL.
84 was obviously posted by an ATL rep. Good job!
Additionally, of course biglaw firms want to take part in a conference like this and get on the good sides of organizations such as ATL and lateralink.
Nice try though.
88 ==> "escape" is a volitional act...you were expelled...but congratulations on the "nice severance"...
91: no, I definitely consider it an escape and the severance just makes it sweeter.
have fun being stuck in there.
92 ==> yes, indeed, what could be "sweeter" than abject failure...well done. I'll bet your dad is really proud of how well you are doing just now. Congratulations again.
93---> I know many good lawyers that were laid off throughout my many years practicing law. I would not tarnish their names by saying they were "abject failures".
C;mon now, you guys. You can't say that being laid off is abject failure. We're all in this together. Some people have fallen, some people haven't. Why are lawyers so into back stabbing each other? We're all in the same profession and we need to stick together and help out our colleagues as well as the image of our profession, which has been suffering to say the least.
I'm not in the navy anymore, but if I were, I wouldn't want you in my flotilla laughing at me if my ship went down.
Lawyers really do bring new meaning to dog eat dog.
About time someone said it, 95. The comments on this site are pure evil.
SAY WHAT?! I had no idea Helen moved on (other than the fact I haven't seen her lately--I thought she looked kinda milfy hot, and her tallness and slimness adds to the sexyness). She only joined the firm like yesterday when Dee left. Talk about a stealth layoff. Since the firm doesn't have to recruit, they don't have to keep around their recruiter. It's probably cuz Dee set the damn bar too high. She had a set of brass balls to rumble with those ego-trippin' partners. She would've totally made partner if she was a lawyer--I mean, she lived and breathed the firm--no kids, no husband. STB was her husband, that's why she got a diamond ring at her departure party. She was the heart of STB. The firm's since become the tin man.
Dave Lat, you and the other panelists should be ashamed of being associated with this racket. They charged $50 (FIFTY DOLLARS) to many people, most of whom are probably unemployed.
Any shame? No?
Hey Dave, at least you got some publicity out of it. Great.