1st?

thirdsty

Andu the magnificent! is third......

As a person who invested money in Madoff, all I can say is...

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN!

Breaking: An empathetic and wise Latina would've let him go with a pinata slap.

This would never happen to a Latino.

His wife, sons, accountants, and clerks should go with him.

Could someone run a story about proceedings against his accomplices. I think thats the real story now.

Denny Chin = Hangin' judge

Madoff will be guaranteed bareback action if he is locked up at the ATL offices. Otherwise, it's a 50/50 roll of the dice.

MysTTTal

why would you invest in madoff? that's like paying $400 an hour for the work of a bar failing latham partner's son.

I'm sure the judge will be accused of anti-semitism. Nothing like a couple of hundred shysters thinking they were in the know because they wore beenies. Ahhhh....too funny. Bernie lined up his own people like a stack of dominos.

Racist comment.

hope he rots

HAHA prison rape is TEH FUNNY!

Really, even you can do better than this.

Fuck you, Mystal!

Hey moron--yeah that's you #13. No, actually the Judge won't be accused of Anti-Semitism because most, if not all, Jews understand that Madoff was a piece of scum who hurt many charities (Jewish and non-Jewish). Jews aren't coming to his defense just because he is Jewish. Notice how the judge was "struck" by the fact that no one sent a letter in support of Madoff?

Agree with 16 -- prison rape humor just opens the floodgate for homophobic humor -- there are enough trolls spewing homophobia on here lately without being encouraged.

#17 - what is the point of this comment?

He smiled when he was sentenced...unbelievable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

19 = Liberace.

I don't agree with this prison turn. People get 5 years for rape. Rape is much worse than stealing money. Think about it, would you rather have someone rape your wife, or still all your money. How does Mike Tyson get 3 years and this guy get 150 years. This makes no sense. Financial crimes is not near as bad as violent crimes, yet financial crimes are getting much longer terms.

17 - NAILED IT!

I don't agree with this prison term. People get 5 years for rape. Rape is much worse than stealing money. Think about it, would you rather have someone rape your wife, or still all your money. How does Mike Tyson get 3 years and this guy get 150 years. This makes no sense. Financial crimes is not near as bad as violent crimes, yet financial crimes are getting much longer terms.

Think he's prolly gonna request the warden give him a little hammer for his hobby of like geology or something. Then hide his tunnel behind the poster of Jonas Bros (amirite?). Then escape to beach in baha and reunite with Morgan Freeman (the music will be crescendoing at this point, obvi).

Couldn't he be released so he could work for the FBI like that "Catch Me If You Can" guy?

or maybe they'll let him out as a 'disgraced cop' and he will join the staties and alec baldwin will say some funny stuff and matt damon and blah blah blah.

Which character from Oz would Bernie be?

Most of the Club Fed facilities, like the one at Nellis AFB, were closed.

21 - You got me. Probably for the third time in the two years I've been reading this site. I applaud you.

23 is right; this shows how far the federal courts have gone back to indeterminate sentencing since Booker. The guidelines may be unjust in some circumstances, but they are at least consistent. We profess to be ruled by laws, not men-- this judge was making an example of this putz.

"Umm ... crying doesn't make you sympathetic. I think instead of turning on the waterworks, Madoff should try not stealing billions of dollars."

Good use of "Umm," mystal-- your writing style more closely reflects your intellectual prowess.
As to the observation itself, you start out talking about sentencing and finish up by talking about the offense conduct. If the distinction isn't important to you, or meaningful, then you are as much a dumb-shit as your faithful commenters say.

Hey Mystal, fuck yo couch!

23 = 31 = is running a Pozni scheme

i hope he gets more bareback where he's going

He'd be at greater risk of abuse if he were sentenced to hard labor at The Palm Beach Country Club.

13:

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Coming to prison cells everywhere in July: Weekend in Bernie's.

The investors who sunk money into Madoff's funds were not choir boys/girls either. The rates of return were too good to be true. But, his clients were not interested in knowing how his "fund" worked. They were interested only in the return. As Warren Buffett said, I never invest money in things that I do not understand. None of these investors understood what he was doing. He preyed on his own ethnic/religious group and they all fell for it presumably because they shared that common background. Still, he got what he deserved. Look at it this way, because of his actions, two people comitted suicide. He is responsible for those deaths and I suspect the Judge factored that into the sentence as well. Madoff was a modern day bank robber who used technology and other people's greed as his weapon. Dillinger used a gun.

"23 is right; this shows how far the federal courts have gone back to indeterminate sentencing since Booker. The guidelines may be unjust in some circumstances, but they are at least consistent. We profess to be ruled by laws, not men-- this judge was making an example of this putz. "

What financial crime would warrant the maximum sentence, if this did not?

Ruthey cries herself to sleep each night, resting her head on a pillowcase full of cash. Booh hoo.

Why no getaway bag?

I would say that 10 years of hard time in a maximum security prison would be more of a deterrence than the rest of your life at Club Fed.

23- I don't think you know what indeterminate means.

One down and one to go. Marc Dreier, you're next!

23: Booker, Shmooker.

A quick glance at USSG 2B1.1 . . . . His offense level is well over the maximum 43. Even with no criminal history, he's looking at a life sentence.

MADOFF TO 190!!!

39 - not only that but some pathetic losers are even crying on TV that they are forced to go on food stamps and dig through garbage cans because they lost their life savings. How do you invest your entire life savings with some mysterious private fund that shows returns that are too good to be true? These people didn't deserve their money.

The Second Circuit just reduced the sentence to 75 years. They held it was cruel and unusual punishment.

44-- Indeterminate means the judges can pick whatever number they want, as opposed to under the guidelines regime, where they are given a range of sentences.
40 and 46-- That's right, under the guidelines, you max out at a life sentence. But then you don't get headlines for giving some ridiculous, state-court type sentence, like 150 years, or multiple life sentences. The result is the same, but it doesn't look like some judge who wants more press just added up max sentences until he got a big, tough-on-crime sentence.

serves the INVESTORS right. what moron would believe Madoff in the first place. dumbasses.

50--
That is *not* what "indeterminate sentence" means.

50--
That is *not* what "indeterminate sentence" means.

44/52-- Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Sit down, take out a pen: There are two ways courts sentence people in America today. First, there may be sentencing ranges set out in the substantive law-- rob a store, get 10 to 99 years. Judge picks the number, INDETERMINATE SENTENCING. Not "indeterminate sentence," which doesn't happen in america unless you're sent to Gitmo. The second option is when legislatures, or the US legislature, sets out a series of guidelines to narrow down the appropriate sentence, taking into account the specific facts of the offense and the offender, et cetera. That's what the feds use, so the press coverage which says Madoff got the "maximum sentence" is referring not to the guidelines, which max out at life, but to the substantive theft statutes, which set out a max sentence for each count.
Fuck you, and don't post unless you've actually finished law school.

Anyone that can't spot a classic ATL rickroll from a million miles away is a buffoon.

Yes 30, I'm talking to you.

54--
I've been praticing law since before you started jerking off to pictures of BigLaw partners. And I practice in federal court. And I went to a law school that you probably think sucks. I'm your worst fucking nightmare.

First of all, the "feds use" ranges set out in statutes AND ranges set out in Guidelines. Sometimes the Guideline range will exceed the maximum statutory period of incerceration. Sometimes, the Guideline range will fall short of the statutory minimum. Whether the Guidelines are mandatory or not, the statutory maximum and minimum control.

When the Guidelines were mandatory, the judge virtually had to sentence a person within the calculated Guideline range. (Range is 52-78 months). Sentence is 63 months.
That is one example of a determinate sentence.

Another example comes where, as now, the Guidelines are non-mandatory. The statutory maximum is 50 years. The Stautory minimum is 1 year. The judge flips a coin and says, "I sentence you to 23 years." That, too is a determinate sentence.

"Indeterminate sentencing" is sentencing a person to a period of incarceration that is not fixed. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GUIDELINES.

INDETERMINATE SENTENCING is when the judge hands down a sentence without a fixed time period. "I sentence you to serve 18 to 25 years."

That no longer happens in the federal system. Guideline or not. "The judge picking a number," whether he's picking it out of a book, or out of his ass, is NOT indeterminate sentencing, AS LONG AS its just one number, as in "Out of my ass I hereby sentence you to 12 years."

Since the penalty is over 30 years, BOP guidelines require incarceration at a high security facility unless an exception is granted. I would not be surprised for an exception to be granted down to medium security, but I really doubt that the BOP will grant an exception down to low or minimum security.

44- I am not 52 or 56, but 52 or 56 has it quite right. You have exposed yourself as a bonehead.

Indeterminate sentence- 2-4 years.

Determinate sentence- one year.

OK, 56, so you're a dumb-shit whose failings are borne by his CJA clients. Great, my faith in the system is restored.
Read Berman's blog, read the SRA commentary, read something, for god's sake, and learn. You're not too old, and you can get back to the voucher forms later.

I think 54 is the bonehead, not 44.

56- for example-- http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2009/06/luck-or-law-the-constitutional-case-against-indeterminate-sentencing-.html

It is correct that 54 and not 44 is the bonehead. I am 44 and meant to say 44 here, not 44.

For a further explanation of how big a bonehead 54 is, anyone with too much time on their hands can follow this link-http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/isl.htm

This includes you 59.

OK-- 50, 54, et seq, here-- the old guy was right, sort of-- I read my own link. I was referring to "discretionary sentencing," more correctly, rather than "indeterminate sentencing." In my defense, the terms have been used interchangably a lot. But, nevertheless, I am THE ASSHOLE. Today, anyway.

61-
(56 here)
I think you proved my point.

As the comment immediately after the blurb says:

"I look forward to getting a chance to read Dan's full article, though I am a bit troubled by his use of the term "indeterminate sentencing" for what I think ought to be called "discretionary sentencing." Most (though not all) sentencing folks use the term "indeterminate sentencing" to describe sentences that include the possibility of later parole, but I do not think that is what Dan means to reference in his criticisms of what most describe as "discretionary sentencing."

63- the terms are only used interchangably by dumb shits who don't know what they're talking about, which would include you. Get back to reading Berman's blog to learn how to practice law. That seems to have served you well so far.

Was 150 yrs really necessary for deterrance, wouldn't say... 90 yrs in fed prison also be a deterrant? I'm sure if Madoff was black Sharptons of the world would've been on the streets rioting

13- Well I don't know how many of them were Jewish, and I don't think that matters- most were probably just typical white people, like my grand mother- but it was definitely a case of one greedy a-hole ripping off a bunch of other greedy a-holes.

16, 19

I disagree. Rape jokes are wildly humorous, especially if they involve bending over for soap, and prison is a good venue for that. Surprised there isn't a website for them besides this one. i think I saw a link to one earlier

My comment is not regarding Mr. Madoff's 150 year prison sentence, but rather this thought from the poster:

"But the pitchfork rally doesn't have to end here. Next up: what prison will Madoff be heading to? A "club-fed" facility, or someplace where Madoff might expect "more bareback.'"

Again and again I read supposedly humorous comments from those who have never been to jail or prison (that much is easy to tell . . .) -- in all different contexts, related to all manner of news -- that make fun of the hideous conditions of our jail and prison facilities. In this case, that Mr. Madoff may be raped if sent to a particular prison. As an American, a recent J.D., but especially as a person with some sense of empathy and decency -- I find these comments disgusting.

I wonder how in the world the people who make these types of comments aren't similarly revolted. Maybe these people honestly find that rape is funny. Or, perhaps, that it's unremarkable our recidivism rate is among the highest in the world (and completely unrelated to the criminal and inhumane conditions of our prison facilities?). Maybe it's just the idea that "criminals get what they deserve." Maybe, but does stealing from rich -- even by the billions -- condemn an American not just to serial sexual battery, but to our laughing at him as that rape occurs? And, if we're fine with the deplorable conditions of our prisons, why not just pass legislation imposing the penalty of rape for all manner of crimes? Surely such a law would pass 8th Amendment scrutiny if we all find it so damn funny.

ATL is a widely read and regarded news and commentary source for the legal community. As such, I expect better out of ATL, even if its bread and butter is irreverence and sarcasm.

J.D. in New Orleans

Thr rape joke is pretty classless, Elie. The J.D. guy in New Orleans has it right. Unfortunately, it's also par for the course around here.

31,32,50,54,59,61, and 63 here. I'm new to this posting thing, and shocked by myself. Whatever an anonymous amends is worth, I apologize again to the guy I flamed on-- though I'm not sorry enough to post my e-mail address or anything like that.
I'm sure this conversation wouldn't have gone the way it did in a face to face meeting, and not just because I don't want to get my ass kicked. I would have asked for clarification, he would have told me, and we might have had a pleasant conversation. Hell, we may practice in the same courts.
But instead I just posted whatever came to my mind, without any serious reflection or ...
Like I said, I'm new at this. The anonymous communication phenonmenon is well documented and commented on. I'm just sad to see myself do it, like some kind of ... young person.

Hey 69/ JD in NO -- Write a law review article, and/or complain to your Congressman/woman.

Blogs, and the comments on this site in particular, are for venting. (Does the concept of "valve" in Con Law - Individual Rights ring a bell?) There is a lot of stress today, particularly in our profession, so if someone wishes to get through the day with a joke, whether tastless or not in your opinion, instead of doing something with more concrete consequences, so be it YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ IT

MADOFF IS GETTING 150 YEARS!?

I hope he brings a sweater with him. Sometimes the cells in prison can get cold and you can get sick. It was like last night where I took a walk at night without a sweater and now I"m sneezing. I hope it's not the swine flu! It could just be my allergies.

I think I will have to see my doctor. He's Mr. Schinestein's son. Can you believe he became a doctor? At least it's better than Mr. Zluchzter's son who became a lawyer. It's not as impressive anymore, you know?

You know Madoff went to Brooklyn Law School? Wouldn't that make Bernie Madoff the most successful person ever to have attended Brooklyn Law?