Fordham Law Grads Share Their Hopes and Dreams with New York Mag
Graduation usually marks a high point in our lives. Ceremonies celebrate graduates’ achievements and their bright futures. But this year, grads are faced with a rocky economy, a terrible job market, and predictions that things will stay this way for quite some time. A sign of the dire times: Harvard grads used their ceremony as a staging ground for a protest against layoffs.
New York Magazine conducted an unscientific survey of 2009 graduates to see what they think about the future. New York City may be ground zero for the fiscal meltdown, but NY Mag managed to find people who are bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, and hopeful about the future:
We were startled by the fact that, circumstances be damned, we found very little bitterness at all — caution, yes; worry too — but judging from the responses to our questions, this is a reflexively optimistic cadre of graduates, feeling, if anything, existentially freed up by this era of radical change. They’re nervous about the job market but figure it’ll sort itself out.
The survey included 200 students from 10 schools. Among the allegedly hopeful lot are a bunch of Fordham Law students, photographed above.
If your depression over the End of Biglaw is still weighing on you, read on. Maybe the delusional optimism of the 2009 grads is contagious. (Or read on if you’re curious to find out when the majority of those surveyed lost their virginity.)
Of those surveyed, 58% have jobs lined up. The article doesn’t get this specific, but we suspect that the Fordham grads who are smiling in their photos [PDF] have jobs. And those who aren’t, don’t. A little Googling would seem to confirm this.
UPDATE (9:04 p.m. from a classmate of Sawkar’s): Anu Sawkar, 30, who is beaming at left, is heading to Ropes & Gray, per her LinkedIn profile. “is going to clerk on the 10th Circuit and then presumably return to Fenwick & West,” where she was a summer associate last year.
Whereas Jennifer Kunz, 25, who looks a bit glum in her photo at right, summered last year with now-dissolved Heller Ehrman.
Kunz talked to UWire about her job prospects back in November:
Princeton 2005 graduate Jennifer Kunz, a third-year student at Fordham Law School, worked last summer at Heller Ehrman. She received a job offer, only to learn in September that the firm had dissolved.Kunz is looking for another job, ideally in corporate law, but said she is being “realistic [because] the market is so bad.” Kunz said she is trying to be flexible and is considering other areas, like government and nonprofit law. She is looking into smaller firms as well.
We sent Kunz an inquiry as to her current job prospects, but have not yet heard back. So we can’t tell you whether she is among the 42% of those surveyed who doesn’t have a job lined up. UPDATE (11:04 p.m.): Kunz should be smiling in her photo. She replied to our e-mail:
I am very happy to be starting work at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission in September.
Most of the questions posed to grads by NY Mag centered on the economy:
Will the country be better off or worse off in five years?91% said “better off.” 3% said “worse.”
How long do you think the recession will last?
Less than one year … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … . 11%
One to two years … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … . . 38%
Two to three years … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … . 23%
More than three years … … … … … … … … … … … … … … 26%
“La la la I’m not listening!”
Tell the Federal Reserve that it looks like there will be one to two more years of this. Surveying the crowd always works on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, right?
By comparison with the other schools in the survey, the salaries for the Fordham kids look pretty sweet. But compared to other law schools…. eek!
Average starting salary:Brooklyn College … . . $40,000
Columbia School of Journalism … … . . $40,000
Fordham Law School … … … $102,000
Kennedy School of Government … … . $88,000
NYU … … … … … . $32,000
Wharton … … … … $113,000
Yale School of Architecture … … … $44,000
NYPD Police Academy … … … … $42,000
We know you may have regrets about choosing law, but doesn’t this make you glad you didn’t choose architecture?
It’s off-topic, but we promised it before the jump. When did most of these folks let someone else explore their briefs?
At what age did you first have sex?13 … … … … … … … … . .1%
14 … … … … … … … … . 3%
15 … … … … … … … … .13%
16 … … … … … … … … .16%
17 … … … … … … … … .15%
18 … … … … … … … … .18%
19 … … … … … … … … . .9%
20 … … … … … … … … 10%
21 … … … … … … … … . .6%
Not yet… … … … … … … .8%
Unfortunately, none of the Fordham grads said anything — on the economy or on their sexual experiences — that the magazine found worth quoting. If you have thoughts on the future for those graduating into a terrible economy (or the best age to lost your virginity), feel free to share them in the comments.
Class of ‘09 [New York Magazine]
(47) Comments
Comments
First!!!!!!!!!!!!
God, this proves fordham kids are retarded. when asked to be interviewed, just say no and walk away or you look retarded
This is further evidence that the "End of Biglaw" theme is an overblown media invention.
Karen hayes is good looking, as is Margaux G.
Delusional optimism? You too, Kashmir?
More evidence that ATL enjoys pushing fear and panic...
Jesus, people. The economy is getting better. Demand for lawyers and legal services will return...
Is Skadden a good place to learn to practice law?
Amanda Mayer is a hotty
Where did all the comments go for Friday's wedding watch?
fordham ranks 5th in the nation for placement of their grads into big law. how come the avg salary is only $102,000?
Well, I'm leaving New York. I know it's hard, but it can be done. There are opportunities elsewhere. There is more to this world than Biglaw in New York.
3L here....
Question. Do Fordham students stick around the building to study? I was up there for the moot court competition, and I have to say, I've never seen a more poorly designed, uncomfortable, ugly building.
And I can't imagine trying to study from home in Manhattan...Where the hell do you people go?
I'm not trying to criticize the students or the institution...just trying to empathize. Seriously, where are you people studying for the Bar?
This is good PR for Fordham
Anu isn't going back to Ropes & Gray. She's going to clerk for the 10th circuit this fall.
11-
You are right. The building does suck. However, as we get reminded of frequently, the school is in the process of getting approval from the city for a new building.
I study at home and at a local library. I was never the type to be in a school library anyway, so studying for the bar away from school works out fine for me
Everyone, be careful with your comments, they are being removed left and right. Some of mine have been removed and I have been receiving threatening phone calls at night from Mystal.
Is the primary intent of this poll to collect data or pictures of the unattractive? It does a better job of the latter.
I suppose that I should know the answer to this question, but is Fordham Law School accredited by the American Bar Association?
Jesus fuck, ATL. Enough already.
The end of BigLaw? The economy won't recover in two years?
At my firm, litigation is chugging along at an albeit slower pace, and corporate groups range from somewhat cool to slammed. PPP is down like, what, 5-7% last year, on average? After a steady growth period of two decades? And this signals the END OF BIGLAW?!
This myopia is frustrating. A handful of firms folded, the partners for which have, in the main, found gainful employment elsewhere. There have been some really lamentable reductions in force, but none substantially over 10%. Alternative fee structures for clients will become somewhat more popular. Etc.
But for FUCK'S SAKE, enough with this Chicken Little bullshit. You're almost as bad as the fucking New York Times. If you really don't think the economy will once again grow, and soon - albeit with a rather less steep trajectory - and that firms will once again hire, and soon, you're fucking deluded.
We're already going to need more people, and firm management with any foresight whatsoever will continue to hire. More modestly, more judiciously, but hire they will.
I am better than all of you.
Louis Zaccarelli, Esq
11- yeah, the building blows and everyone hates it. they can never properly regulate the temperature so it's either clammy and hot or freezing cold. however, tons of people still study at the library, especially during finals. it's been pretty empty for bar studying, not sure why.
These virgins are ripe for sacrifice.
Quetzalcoatl
fordham's avg starting salary is only 102 because that reflects all of the students who also go into gov't work, clerkships and small firms...
Fordham Law grad's dream: NYU LLM
nyc is ground zero for the legal world. good luck to the fordham grads competing against t14 grads this year. seriously.
Hello!?! Unscientific poll.
You're getting salary info for *only* those who chose to answer the question out of 19 or 20 Fordham Law students who were willing to be in the story. I know some of those folks, and they didn't tell NYMag what salary they would be making -- let alone answer many of the other stupid/voyeuristic questions that rag asked.
The National Law Journal reported in February that Fordham Law "sent 43.7% -- or 205 of its 469 J.D. graduates -- to NLJ 250 law firms. It came in at No. 17." (see http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202428438260)
And the New York Times reported in April that Fordham Law grads average salaries in the private sector were $150-160K. (see http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/04/19/education/edlife/19edlifeDATA.ready.html?ref=edlife)
sorry 25 but this years true avarage starting salary will clearly be lower than 102k.
Set aside the tabloid speculations: Jennifer Kunz is going to work at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
26 - not "clearly" at all
There were 469 JD grads from Fordham this year. (see http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/news-2details.ihtml?id=612&nid=1088)
NY Mag published an average based on answers from fewer than 20 grads.
Rather than speculate -- despite the fact that it's SOP on ATL -- perhaps we should look at the real salary data when it's published.
I agree with 26.
A lot of graduating students got hit HARD by the deflating legal industry. Thus, some who has jobs, lost jobs. Others who normally could rely on the place they summered to make them an offer never got one. Also, a lot of students will be deferring for a year from their firm, thus their salary will be lower (if Fordham will count that year's salary rather than the firm that deferred them starting salary).
Either way, the numbers will not be as high as in years past and may go below $102k.
But 28 is right, we will see what happened when the new numbers come out.
As someone who participated in this "interview," I must say it was an abomination.
too easy of a target.
Fordham law school starting salary 102K, NYU 32k? I call BS unless they are comparing Fordham law grads with NYU undergrads. If that is the case, pathetic.
They are comparing the 10 Fordham grads against the other people in the pool, dipshits.
6 NYC market rate, 1 clerk, 1 gov't job, 2 unemployed. Sounds about right for Fordham and it gets you close to the number given.
You people are morons. Starting with Elie. Eeek.
28, I wasn't basing my comment on this crap article at all. I was basing it on things I've heard from multiple 3ls at different top20 schools who have told me that in reality about 50% of their classmates were unemployed (at least at graduation) and many of the rest are currently deferred. Data for the class of 2008 will tell us basically nothing about the class of 2009 given that "deferral" wasn't even in our vocab in 2008.
I am not knocking Fordham, I'm just saying that based on what I've heard from sources at 3 different T1 schools. Fordham is a good school I'm just saying this market is shit.
And with that....IT'S PUSSY FART TIME, BITCHES!!
should read: some who *had jobs, lost jobs
-29
Shoot your hopes and dreams!
- R. Belding
This comment thread is very upsetting. How could no one point out yet the obvious fact of how bangable-in-the-ass Lindsey Davis Stover, 30 is? Throw in the girl on either side and make it a party!
Watch the hot girls getting offered decent jobs before anybody else.
I am a Fordham 0L of some notoriety, and this article made my night. Optimism: long may it reign!
@ 9 -
Fordham ranking 5th in biglaw is news from 2007, but impressive nonetheless. Never expected that!
"And a 2006 analysis by AmLaw100 showed that Fordham ranked fifth in the number of graduates at the 30 firms with the highest average partner compensation. The only law schools ahead of Fordham were Harvard, New York University, Columbia and Georgetown."
http://www.fordham.edu/campus_resources/enewsroom/inside_fordham/inside_fordham_archi/20072008/november_19_2007/news/fordham_law_school_s_28147.asp
Fordham's always had an unusually high placement into BigLaw, simply on the back of being #3 in NY.
Its proximity to so many large firms lets it punch out of it class for students looking to avoid sleep for a few years.
It's life and life only.
If anyone truly thinks this recession is the end of Big Law... then they are sadly mistaken.
Wes
I wish I would've become a cop! Instead of using my 30s to brainstorm constructive activities post-BIGLAW, I'd be just a few years from retiring with a fat pension. Harassing the disenfranchised is so much easier than trying to build a book of business. And chicks probably dig the uniform more than my stories of appellate successes past. At least my law degree is written in Latin, so I can try to pass it off like I went to medical school.
The midlevel associates are being squeezed out of federal government jobs. These '09 graduates are getting entry-level positions and the experienced attorney positions are going to junior partners and counsel. Is there no love for midlevel associates in government agencies?
Not even starbucks would take a midlevel.