First fail

First and white

first ango-saxon

What a bunch of PC garbage.

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First and white

First and white

"I've been endorsed by the Communist Party. True story."

-- SotomayOR!

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101158

There NYC offices are ugly as shit.

If they're all Arabs, or from the "Asian sub-continent", can't they be allowed to want a white person in the name of diversity?

Or does "diversity" only count when minorities benefit?

Given the locus of these events, I guess an appropriate sanction would include beheading. After all, what else could one expect from a bunch of rag heads. Only a complete idiot would work over there, regardless of the money being paid.

This shouldn't be a surprise....Arabs are notoriously racist toward people from the Sub-continent......to them, Indians/Pakistanis are merely slaves. In fact many of the arab nations including the likes of the UAE and Saudi Arabia have government run slavery programs which bring in Indians and Pakistanis from the subcontinent to do back breaking work, for little pay, and then they keep them locked up in a "dormitory" so that they can't mix with the anglo-saxons and arabs. If you do business with Arabs, just know that you are doing business with a very very large and well funded plantation.

Can Anglo Saxon Jews apply?

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13,

You have it backwards. Everyone in the Mid East knows that Anglo Saxon eunuchs make the most profitable associates.

Minorities, as a whole, are much more racist than any white person ever has been.

Can anyone explain whether this should be a surprise?

No, Elie, you're a HUGE fan of affirmative action.

I'm with 14. Someone should ask this PC poseur if they would even carry on a civil conversation with a Jewish attorney, much less consider hiring one.

This is no different than the criteria by which Sotomayor was selected as a candidate for the US Supreme Court.

Ellie is for affirmative action because he owes his life to it.

Elie loves affirmative action! Without it, his local breakfast nook never would have started serving THREE different kinds of jelly donuts!

Why do Middle Easterners smell funny?

11,

You're a fuckin retard who doesn't know what "minority" means.

Yours,

26

It's all right, cuz it's all white!!!

-Chris Rock

27 hasn't learned his numbers yet. Lol.

Just another reason that Freshfields SUCKS!

Said caucasion specimen must have strong teeth and will be put in the octagon to fight other Caucasians.

17,

Isn't that how we treat Mexicans in the US? Are we notoriously racist?

Why is there so much hate? And why does it mostly surface when people can hide behind computer screens like little weasels.

Freshfields is conducting stealth layoffs, both in London and New York. Look into it, Elie.

My favorite line is in their apology:

"many nationalities including Saudi, Egyptian, Sudanese, Syrian, American, German, French and New Zealand"

They were discriminating against lawyers from the sub-continent (which is lawyers who are enthically Indian, Pakistan and Bangladesh). Then how is their workforce diverse when they state in their apology that they hire folks from diverse nationalities but not from the sub-continent.

And sure, LFHS is different entity. However, Freshfields should be ashamed of itself for aligning corporate interests with such a racist (blatantly racist) law firm.

I am Indian by ethnicity, and I can definitely say that I would have no interest of ever working at Freshfields (let alone LFHS).

I don't get it. Wouldn't they much rather hire a wise Latina?

Is this what PE would consider a "peer" firm?

It's also worth noting that many Caucasians do not "speak fluent English to a very high professional standard."

6 - like Oklahoma City and the Unabomber?? Fucking retard.

33 is a little weasel even when not hiding behind his computer screen.

Elie,

Caucasians are a minority in the Arab world.

Why is it wrong for a firm to want to hire a minority in Saudia Arabia, but perfectly fine for a firm in the United States to attend a "Minority Job Fair" in the hopes of hiring a few black applicants.

If you have ever been to the Middle East, you would know that whites are discriminated against all the time. Would it be ok with you, Elie Mystal, for Saudi firms to attend a "Minority Job Fair" where white males/females were the only ones present?

Seriously, Elie, you know how much racism pisses you off. Is it impossible for you to understand and empathize with young, white men from poor backgrounds who get passed over for less qualified black candidates?

Guess what, racism pisses us off too when its directed at us! We don't like to get judged by the color of our skin either!

Please respond to my argument. It is rational.

32 - If you think there is any comparison between Mexican immigrants in the USA (many of whom are illegal) and the way Indians, Filipinos, etc. are treated in the Middle East you are shamefully ignorant of what goes on in the world (and likely a left winger who hates the freest, most tolerant and welcoming nation in the world (that's the USA, in case ya didn't know)).

My God, these people are sketchy.

23,

no it is not the same thing. Loser conservative admin. staff don't get it. But don't let that stop you from impotently and annonymously whining on this blog.

cheers,
all done with this thread

23,

no it is not the same thing. Loser conservative admin. staff don't get it. But don't let that stop you from impotently and annonymously whining on this blog.

cheers,
all done with this thread

They should have just been completely upfront and admitted that they are casting for the new Ausitn Powers movie: "Austin Powers and the Quest for the Sub Continental Asians."

This guy is CBE?

el-Aurance?

"in a market where every job opening gets flooded with resumes"

By which Elie means "the planet Earth."

this happens all the time in saudi and kuwait. they have different salary levels for the same job, depending on ethnicity.

a white person gets paid XX, an iranian gets paid YY, an indian gets paid ZZ, etc.

this was no surprise or mistake. its common practice, and a common mindset that's persisted for decades.

Elie is a miserable fool and a failure. I don't know why Kash or Lat put up with him.

"many nationalities including Saudi, Egyptian, Sudanese, Syrian, American, German, French and New Zealand"

So, your firm employs Arabs and white folks. How does this show that you don't discriminate against, say, Asians?

The Mexican affiliate of Baker McKenzie pulled this shit about 5 years ago. Caused a major scandal - look it up.

This makes perfect sense in the PC, left-wing Obama world. People aren't regarded as individuals with individual merit - they are merely representatives of communal groups based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Theres no Equal Opportunity Employment Law in Saudi Arabia so they could even post this publically and it wouldnt mean anything.

41: Hooray!

$20 says Elie has no respone.

Theres no Equal Opportunity Employment Law in Saudi Arabia so they could even post this publically and it wouldnt mean anything.

Theres no Equal Opportunity Employment Law in Saudi Arabia so they could even post this publically and it wouldnt mean anything.

Theres no Equal Opportunity Employment Law in Saudi Arabia so they could even post this publically and it wouldnt mean anything.

There may be problems with racism in the Middle East and it likely came through in their recruitment email, but I wouldn't pin it on the head of the law firm. His credentials seem pretty damn good and from the sounds of it he took the appropriate action to correct the mistake. Kudos to him.

No, the appropriate response here would be a hearty "shut up and eff off" to hypocriticial, busybody self-constituted champions of racial minorities who needs to spend more time proofreading their own writing and far less of it meddling in productive enterprise, a field they clearly have little experience with.

the only surprising thing about this email is that it didn't explicitly exclude jews. maybe they thought no jew would be foolish enough to go work in jeddah. although i've received many calls from recruiters with jewish surnames (and i have one myself) about positions in saudi. how clueless can some people be?

What's the difference between this and biglaw minority recruiting? A token by any other name is still a token.

Elie, please follow up on these “sanctions.” It will probably be something out of one of those “Saw” movies.

No, the appropriate response here would be a hearty "shut up and eff off" to hypocritical, busybody, self-constituted champions of racial minorities who need to spend more time proofreading their own writing and far less of it meddling in productive enterprise, a field they clearly have little experience with.

It's ironic that Mr. Al-Hejailan sits on an advisory board at Human Rights Watch, which has extensively reported on the widespread discrimination and slave labor directed at Indians and Sri Lankans in the Middle East. As already noted, many Southwest Asians, whether born in the U.S. or abroad, speak native English.

I think I recently received an email from this firm. They were trying to help a client get $10 million out of Nigeria. Something about me being a long lost beneficiary of some oil tycoon over there or something.

You morons, you think the Saudis care about your hurt feelings? Whoever is not Saudi, including other Arabs, are treated like garbage down there. Why would you want to live in that suffocating sandtrap anyway..

[It's worth noting that Caucasians are not the only ethnicity that can "speak fluent English to a very high professional standard." ]

Maybe the guy reads a lot of Elie's posts and very little else and overgeneralized based on that.

41: Whites are discriminated against?? they may be a minority in the middle east (and many other places), but I don't know of a single place where being white is a negative. The presumptions held by most people in the developing world when encountering whites are overwhelmingly positive..

To 41: "...but I don't know of a single place where being white is a negative."

Your English is fantastic, especially since you must not be from America.

"... employs more than 25 lawyers of many nationalities including Saudi, Egyptian, Sudanese, Syrian, American, German, French and New Zealand,"

Note that people from these countries all tend to be white.

This was simply a mesage that they will hire anyone but Indians. Fuck them.

70,

You mean "To 69:" ?

41, the point of this post is that being Caucasian is a requirement for being hired, when the only reason provided by the firm is that the position necessitates high fluency in English. Your analogy is not reasonable or appropriate.

This is blatant anti-Orc discrimination! Wait til I tell the frost wyrms about this!

Zug Zug

This is blatant anti-Orc discrimination! Wait til I tell the frost wyrms about this!

Zug Zug

Elie,

This post shows how ridiculous you are. In many posts you take the side that hiring based upon race is good. Here, you imply hiring based upon race is bad.

I don't get it. What is the variable?

Read the linked article. The head of this law firm was granted his CBE in part as a rebuke to Saudi Arabia, he worked to clear the Britons who were wrongly accused (and tortured into confessing) of engaging in bombings. He is, or at least was, apparently a critic of a number of things the Saudi Arabian government does. So he sounds a lot more principled than many "western" lawyers. You might say he has character...

I object to the ad, but thinking and reading comments I recognize and understand the point other commenters have made here. Is it any different (in kind, not in degree) from job ads soliciting minority applicants here? If one thinks such ads are okay, then what's wrong with recruiting minorities there?

For that matter, if a wealthy highly lucrative middle eastern client of a NY firm wants e.g. only white non-Jewish males working on his matter or meeting with him, will the firm oblige? What if instead he limits his preference to males only (or females only...). Or if an Israeli citizen prefers Jews, or (etc.). I think that many firms wouldn't cooperate, I would hope most wouldn't, but I strongly suspect at least some would comply. Advertising for the type of lawyer the law firm in Saudi Arabia thinks its clients want ("we have enough brown-skinned guys, let's get some more whites") is at least open and above-board. If (for the sake of argument) they're going to hire a white male anyway, why not save the time and expense of wasting time looking over the resumes and conducting interviews with those who will never be hired?

You should ask them whether they would consider a Jewish candidate, given that I understand that Jews are not permitted to live in or travel to Saudi Arabia. There's your real discrimination story.

73,

What is your point? Would the requirement of being Caucasion be appropriate in your mind if the firm explained it was for diversity reasons and not for English speaking skills?

The point of my argument is that race is often considered an explicit or implicit requirement for hiring in the United States. Go to a minority job fair as a white person, see what happens.

I want to know if this diversity argument should apply to other countries where white people aren't given equal opportunities for everything in society.

Why, would it be wrong for Saudi firms to encourage diversity within their ranks? Elie's presumptive answer: Because white people would benefit from diversity.

What's the grammatical error in "but I don't know of a single place where being white is a negative"? It reads fine to me.

Do you have a substantive response? The equating of typical diversity hiring in the US to hiring of a white "minority" in Saudi Arabia in the arguments above is laughable. The totem pole looks the same there as it does here (whites on top and blacks at the very bottom).

@69

You can't be serious... not "a single place" where it's better to be not-white? Hmm, how about Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea, Togo, Eritrea, or Somalia. Or do you think that locals think it's perfectly normal and not-at-all suspicious that you're walking around being white in their town? Please hold while I airlift myself to Syria and await my "positive-for-being-white reception.

81,

Great points. You should add trying to get a simple table at a restaurant in Japan for you and your white wife. 69 should try that some time.

Racism exists everywhere, against minorities wherever they are found. And minority IS a term whose definition is relative to what part of the world you are in.

Venus Springs is looking for a job.

Didn't the same thing happen to Greg a while back?

76, to paraphrase Henry Ford, we all know that hiring someone based upon race is perfectly acceptable as long as that race is Black.

"Poorly worded"?

I think the email was crystal clear.

"Salah Al-Hejailan has promised disciplinary action". Thats gonna be painful...

@70

I grant that many people in the countries you mention despise the American gov't and some radicals in those countries would kidnap or hurt Americans in their midsts -- but that is not the point. The locals in those countries largely view whites through rosy lenses and assume whites are wealthy and intelligent, and businesses look favorably upon white candidates too.

Regarding Syria, I have an American friend who is working in Damascus and she feels perfectly welcome there. Have you traveled much? While many in the world may harbor strong anti-American sentiments, It is rare to find people who hate individual Americans traveling in their countries (ask Americans who've traveled to Iran for example - I doubt you will find one who did not have an overwhelmingly positive reception there).

85 = post of the day

This rag has become, and is becoming more so each day, a forum for Elie to promote the racism that is currently represented by required diversity and affirmative action. For all of those commentators who agree, the best action is to simply ignore this website until he is replaced with someone that has more self-respect and confidence. Exercise your right as a consumer and reject this horrible product in hopes that something new (and better) will spring up in its place.

For all those saying that the e-mail was acceptable U.S.-style affirmative action to increase diversity, that's not what was going on here, because (1) the recruiter specifically excluded Asians (read: Indians, etc.), who are not employed at the firm and are thus not even a minority but completely absent; and (2) the firm's apology makes no sense - if the intent was to recruit strong English speakers, why didn't they just call for "native English speakers" instead of banning all South Asians?

73 - the email sent to recruiters doesn't say anything about speaking English. The "clarification" mentioned speaking English with a very high professional standard. You suck.

27 - Actually, in that part of the world, I bet a white male IS a minority. Dipshit. Think before you try to be abusive. Oh, wait, you went to some third rate law school, sorry, that is beyond your scope of ability.

Long time reader, first time commenter. I was motivated to comment, because this post struck me as a bunch of PC non-sense. I read the job posting several times trying to find what was wrong with it. I even read a couple of times placing extraordinary emphasis on the original text emphasis in an attempt to discern the supposed error. I still couldn't figure out what was wrong. I then read the commentary after the jump in an attempt to figure out what was wrong with the job posting. Guess what? After reading the commentary, I'm convinced there is nothing wrong with the job posting. ATL owes the firms involved an apology for inciting un-PC PC terrorism.

Agree with 94, there is nothing wrong with the request, the PC nazis are at it again.

94 and 95 = racist. you two must work at this at this TTT place.

This blog sux, do these people get paid to write dribble? Amen

Amendment to original recruitment letter:

Finally, we have an urgent need to engage either a Recruitment Agency or Contractor for an internal HR position. This availability is temporary, duration to parallel the incumbent’s medical disability leave. We expect the successful candidate to have sufficient maturity/acumen to handle a broad range of HR activities, including but not limited to writing appropriate recruitment postings, updating HR policies for Diversity and Inclusion, and establishing proper and prudent HR Sanctions regarding policy violations.

Long range goals for this position include developing and conducting Diversity Training programs for LFSH staff in all offices, and resolving the various crises in the Middle east.

Allah hu Akbar

I think it is patently wrong to limit hiring to just one race. As many have noted, the original email could be read to specifically exclude Indians, Jews, and a number of other Americans and British people who were native English speakers and qualified.

If you'd ever been to a "minority job fair" -- and something tells me that the vast majority of the people talking about one have never been to one -- you'd know that those events do not exist so that firms can hire a minority at the exclusion of everybody else. Instead, those exist to give minorities a chance to meet recruiters who might otherwise overlook qualified minority candidates. (perhaps because they think "fluent English speakers" must mean "white people.")

I have no problem with a firm seeking out diversity, whatever that means based on where you are and what business you are in. But I do have a problem with companies actively excluding other ethnicity based on faulty stereo types of what one racial/ethnic group is good at.

I would empathize with young poor white men who got passed over for a position by a less qualified minority. But have no sympathy or empathy of respect for a young poor white man who *assumes* that every minority they see is "less qualified." When a white person gets something that I also wanted, I don't always assume race played a role, even if I'm "more qualified" based on objective factors.
--Elie

As this incident clearly demonstrates, Freshfields is a firm that has its head completely up its own tight asshole and should be avoided like the plagued by students from the top law schools around the world and in the United States. Also, top law school career counselors should do their students a big favor and steer them far away from this firm if they want their students to have jobs when they graduate. This incident as well as the recent story where prospective Freshields trainees were left messages on their cell phones by H.R. reps that they no longer had positions is just the tip of the iceberg of the shit that one can only imagine goes down within this cold institution.
You mean to tell me that a partner who supervised the traineee could not have taken a few minutes to call those unfortunate students and offer them some assistance from their vast network of contacts. I am sure those same partners would not have problems quickly tracking down an associate who they needed to do their crap work. Utter cowardice.

Article about incident with trainees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1192511/Trainee-lawyers-receive-gutless-voicemail-managers-giving-sack.html

If a firm of such a supposed "stellar" reputation has two major P.R. blunders like this in one week, can you just imagine what other terrible actions take place behind closed doors that the public never hears about. These incidents simply exemplify the total and utter lack of professionalism coming from this firm and its partnership. Ultimately, what is really to blame for the development of this horrible public image is the firm's leadership. When profit without respect for employees and prospective employees is your only driving motive and underlying value system, the truth about character will eventually come out. It looks like the truth about Freshfields is already out for display.

Sigh.

Elie,

stereo types = categories of audio equipment
stereotypes = an oversimplification of an image

Jeez.

Elie,

So its patently wrong to limit hiring to just one race but its not patently wrong to give some races special preference? Either way somebody is getting screwed based on color.

Qualified white candidates are overlooked all the time. Shall we also have a white male fair just to make sure none were missed in the hiring process? That would be ok under your logic, but I doubt you would be ok with that if it was actually done.

Perhaps the posters who don't perceive the outrageous nature of this e-mail aren't aware that many Middle Eastern countries, especially Saudi Arabia, have a consistent record of egregious discrimination against certain ethnic minorities, including south Asians.

The situation would be the same if a south Asian firm sent out a recruitment e-mail stating that they wanted an ethnic French person for a job requiring French-speaking skills, but refused to consider French-speakers from West Africa, for example. The intent is not to ensure linguistic capability, but to exclude particular groups.

Arabs are also white. They just want some non-Arab white guys for diversity. Let it go!

As this incident clearly demonstrates, Freshfields is a firm that has its head completely up its own tight asshole and should be avoided like the plagued by students from the top law schools around the world and in the United States. Also, top law school career counselors should do their students a big favor and steer them far away from this firm if they want their students to have jobs when they graduate. This incident as well as the recent story where prospective Freshields trainees were left messages on their cell phones by H.R. reps that they no longer had positions is just the tip of the iceberg of the shit that one can only imagine goes down within this cold institution.
You mean to tell me that a partner who supervised the traineee could not have taken a few minutes to call those unfortunate students and offer them some assistance from their vast network of contacts. I am sure those same partners would not have problems quickly tracking down an associate who they needed to do their crap work. Utter cowardice.

Article about incident with trainees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1192511/Trainee-lawyers-receive-gutless-voicemail-managers-giving-sack.html

If a firm of such a supposed "stellar" reputation has two major P.R. blunders like this in one week, can you just imagine what other terrible actions take place behind closed doors that the public never hears about. These incidents simply exemplify the total and utter lack of professionalism coming from this firm and its partnership. Ultimately, what is really to blame for the development of this horrible public image is the firm's leadership. When profit without respect for employees and prospective employees is your only driving motive and underlying value system, the truth about character will eventually come out. It looks like the truth about Freshfields is already out for display.

102 -- Dude, if you are white, and you don't know where to find the "white male fair" is, I'm sorry. You should ask some of your friends.
--Elie

78,

How are Saudi's treated in Israel? For that matter, how are Arabs in general treated in Israel?

107: 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs and there are no legal distinction between Jewish Israelis and Arab Israelis (Arabs-Israelis are exempted from compulsory military service however). 10% of the members of Israel's parliament are Israeli Arabs. Israeli Arabs enjoy more freedom and economic opportunities than the the vast majority of their brethren living under oppressive Arab regimes.

There is simply no comparison to the treatment of Jews (or any non-Muslims for that matter) in Saudi Arabia (and across most of the Arab world).

You wrote, "To his credit, Salah Al-Hejailan has promised disciplinary action against the person that sent the original email."

That's bullshit. They wanted to hire a white person in a location where they are a minority...so...freaking...what. That's exactly what employers do in the U.S. with racial minorities.

I love how the double standard becomes distasteful to non-whites when they don't benefit globally from racial hiring preferences.

I agree with 108. There is no apartheid in Israel. Arabs in Israel are treated as equals with the Jews. Settlements are not being built. No wall has been built. They don't issue different ID cards to the Arabs, and there have been no attempts to force the Arabs to take a loyalty oath.

108,

"there are no legal distinction between Jewish Israelis and Arab Israelis"

That is funny.

@ 108. I never said Arabs are treated equally, I said there are no legal distinctions. Israel has a long way to go in improving the situation for it's Arab minority (though considering the country has faced relentless terrorism and fought several defensive wars against its Arab neighbors, I believe Israel has behaved comparatively well). Still, Israeli Arabs are better off than most of their neighbors in the Arab world. It is indisputable that they are treated much better than certain minorities/political opponents across the Arab world. It is disingenuous to attempt to equate the two.

"Still, Israeli Arabs are better off than most of their neighbors in the Arab world."

This means nothing. I know a guy who beats his wife twice a week. His neighbors beat their wives every night of the week. Still, the wife who is beat twice a week is better off than most of her neighbors. So what?

Also, many minorities in Arab countries are treated just fine.

Hey Elie at 106, keep your goddamn idiotic Gloria Steinem Noam Chomsky opinions to yourself. We've heard the whole "white male is the devil" bit a million times from your ilk.

Elie was just offended that the email discriminated against Indians. If that wasn't in the email (which it should not have been), it would be perfectly appropriate. Law firms in the US hire unqualified blacks, why shouldn't law firms in saudi arabia hire unqualified whites?

This was no mistake. This was a high-level job in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. That means they don't want Jews, blacks, Asians or South Asians.

If you know anything about Saudi Arabia, this won't surprise you in the least. Although I cannot imagine a Jewish attorney wanting to go to Riyadh anyway...

113 - I bet the wife who is spared 5 beatings/week cares that she's better off than the neighbor. But your analogy is highly unfair to begin with. Arabs living in Israel are Israeli citizens. They vote, participate in government, they have rights, can worship freely, can own property, open businesses, travel, have recourse to the courts, etc.

It is not even legal to wear a cross in public in Saudi Arabia and homosexuality is punished by death -- Jesus, how can you compare the two?

"Dude, if you are white, and you don't know where to find the "white male fair" is, I'm sorry. You should ask some of your friends."

Elie, I did, and they don't know of any. However, I can google "diveristy job fair" or "minority job fair" and I will be inundated with hits. Sorry my little cherub, you are in way over your head on this argument. Get off your computer much?

116,

Don't take our God's name in vein. Why do members of the tribe love doing that?

Elie- all white people weren't raised in country clubs. Your pathetic attempt to justify minority job fairs, and aa in general, fools none of us. You cannot logically defend it, and your last post demonstrates just how underqualified your argument is. I'd love to see you actually debate this topic.

Elie,

It is possible to be a white male, not a racist and be against affirmative action.

Little information for your entitled self.

I actually work at a law firm in Saudi Arabia. It is 1:30 am here so I won't write much.

1. You people debating racism against diversity have no idea what goes on here or even how most of the world works.

2. This firm is not PROMOTING DIVERSITY (or at least the skin color diversity that liberal westerners promote). There is plenty of skin color diversity here already. Saudis come in all colors. Most are olive or tan. Some are white. Some are black. This is from the migration of traders, armies, and slaves over the centuries.

3. There are a lot of South Asians and Arabs here who are "tangentially" European, Canadian, or American. They somehow have citizenship and maybe studied or qualified in the West but they are NOT Western in thought, deed, or work product.

4. Business here is dominated by South Asians. They do most of not just the back breaking work but often the management of companies. Most of the executives at the firms that are well run here are South Asians. In the middle of the spectrum are the Filipinos. At the bottom are the South Asians again.

5. This firm is looking for a person who can make Western and East Asian clients feel comfortable about their representation in Saudi Arabia. I once had a Western client tell me (in front of a Saudi) that he was dam happy to have a white lawyer finally. Western and East Asian clients don't feel comfortable with a guy with an South Asian or Arab accent who isn't available to take a call because he's at prayer. This is the kind of diversity the firm is looking for.

6. As a white person in Saudi who doesn't speak enough Arabic to even order a meal I am sometimes price gouged on the assumption that I am rich. If I were rich why would I be in Saudi Arabia? I would be on a sandy beach in Bermuda hanging out with Chinese Muslims not breathing Sandy air in 110 degree weather with Arabian Muslims.

7. We work on Saturday and Sunday here.

8. Everything closes during prayer time.

9. This won't be a PR problem for the firm here.

10. I am sure the principal of the firm specially directed his subordinate to find a white lawyer.

Elie,

You make an argument, someone else takes your logic, substitutes "white" for "black" and asks if the logic still applies. The best you can do in response to that question is to say, "Dude, if you are white, and you don't know where to find the "white male fair" is, I'm sorry. You should ask some of your friends."

Answer the question Elie, or admit you're a moron.

Do you even see the irony here? In your previous post, you said, "[Minority job fairs] exist to give minorities a chance to meet recruiters who might otherwise overlook qualified minority candidates." Now you're saying that it's impossible for a white person to be overlooked.

When faced with a legitimate challenge to your logic, the best you can do is say, "all white people catch breaks." When a guy with two Harvard degrees cannot even articulate an argument that would convince a third grader, something tells me his definition of a "qualified minority candidate" isn't something I should bother considering.

Your ability to make an argument is just plain terrible. None of us is surprised that you failed at being a lawyer.

The recruitment was being conducted by TLSH and not Freshfields. TLSH is simply the firm they use when they need Saudi advice and the e-mail that was sent to the rec cons was probably drafted by some HR git.

Duh.

Elie: "But have no sympathy or empathy of respect for a young poor white man who *assumes* that every minority they see is "less qualified." When a white person gets something that I also wanted, I don't always assume race played a role, even if I'm "more qualified" based on objective factors."

Elie, is it ok to make such an inference when it's true that the vast majority of minority students/employees in our field do in fact have less impressive qualifications based on objective factors? You don't "always" assume race plays a role when you don't get something you want, but I'd say you're a solid 99% or so.

Where did your LSAT fall in the Harvard range? SAT?

123- It's pretty clear that Freshfields didn't have its hand in this, but Elie needs a pretext to call someone a racist and attribute it to the vast white guy conspiracy. TLSH is not that guy. Freshfields is. Thus, Freshfields is the perfect example of white racism, and Elie's hunch that the world is out to get him is confirmed.

102 -- Dude, if you are white, and you don't know where to find the "white male fair" is, I'm sorry. You should ask some of your friends.
--Elie

Unbelievable.

Can someone tell me where the while male fair is?

Elie- since you're so offended by the white guy who "assumes that every minority they see is less qualified", would you address the study conducted by Derek Bok and William Bowen (former presidents of Harvard and Princeton universities) that concluded, among other things, that if race were given no consideration whatsoever in admitting students, the percentage of African American students at the most selective schools would have dropped from 7.9% to 2.1%?

What does it mean if 3 out of every 4 of such students would not be admitted but for race? Does that permit us whiny white guys to infer anything about less qualified candidates?

Would you argue that 75% of all white guys (you know, those of us who should just "ask our friends" where the white guy job fairs are) are given that same kind of benefit? Do you really think 75% of the white kids in college got there because of legacy admissions or the like?

Please tell me that all the overpriced diplomas understand that this employment posting was not an accident, and that is was meant to specifically exclude Indians/Pakistanis from the USA and England. Read another way, the posting says "no matter whether you went to Yale and then HLS, and are fluent in five languages including English, you need not apply if you have a South Asian last name." And listing a bunch of source countries which are predominantly white does not mean you are diverse; it is evidence of the opposite.

And why the hell is Elie getting a hard time for posting this? It's far more important and relevant than the wedding posts.

Leave Elie alone

126,

For non-pedantic fucks, it means white people food, like mayonnaise and Chinese take-out.

128 is right. A lot of people are missing the (explicit) exclusionary import of the e-mail.

128 - does anyone REALLY expect a law firm from Saudi Arabia to be PC about these things?

You can rant out loud in your ivory towers about racism but, oh, the irony: take a good look around you and tell us, what's the percentage of black lawyers at your American firm. Far less than 12%? Are you truly surprised?

This article is, at best, the result of sensationalistic tabloid journalism.

I definitely feel for the dude who is facing saudi "disciplinary action"

To Elie post 99

1, I, however, think it perfectly acceptable to hire members of one race. It is patently wrong to hire anyone you don't want to hire. No private person (natural or corporate) owes any minority group, or any given candidate, a damn thing.

1. As racist as this is, I virtually guarantee you this ad was put out there due to the racism of the clients (both inside and outside Saudi Arabia).

2. If you're a fan of affirmative action, you shouldn't have a problem with firms picking people according to their race.

What's that? The white guy here wasn't oppressed? And that's a criteria for affirmative action since when? (And what do you know about the person's background other than his race?)

This ad is discriminating against Indians, Pakistanis, etc.--so while you're using this incident as an example to show how whites are privileged, you're also going to use it to show that Indians/Pakistanis deserve affirmative action, right? . . . Oh, what's that? They don't? Oh, yeah, that's right, we discriminate against Pakistanis and Indians **right here**, we provide a hurdle that makes the standards tougher for admission through affirmative action--But it's okay to discriminate against them, because Indians and Pakistanis, just like Jews, Italians, the Irish, etc. were never oppressed...at all...ever...so they don't deserve a boost. They must be made to pay for the unfair advantage they had in the past.

132 - Given the number of posters who actually think that this e-mail was an attempt to encourage diversity in the law firm, and not an attempt to exclude certain minorities, I think it would surprise some that a Saudi firm would be this blatantly racist. At the very least this post may sensitize some people to this problem.

And even though racism exists in the US, it's the explicit nature of the racism in the e-mail that's newsworthy.
- not 128

Saudis hating on Indians is nothing new; these Arabs have been destroying Indian culture for the past 800 years. I'm just puzzled why academics support them.

People like 136,

Nobody thinks this was an attempt at diversity. Their point is that this is no more "racist" than diversity hires. The firm specifically targets one race because, for whatever reason, it values members of that race more than other potential candidates. Follow the bouncing ball.

Nothing would make me happier than to have the world develop alternative forms of energy, so that we stop pumping ridiculous amounts of money into Saudi. Those backward fools would be back to riding camels in their miserable nomadic existence

Yes, as an Indian-American, can I get a whoop for F**k the Saudis, and Arabs in general?

These are the least liberal people in the world.

The job posting must be clarified - if the Anglo-Saxon happens to be Jewish he is also unacceptable.

He also must not be gay. And he must be a he.

Jesus fucking christ, 107, Israel has nothing to do with this. Seriously, get over whatever Israel hangup you have and try to get on with your life.

People on this site don't seem to realize what is going on here. In Saudi Arabia, like a lot of the middle east, people of the Indian subcontinent are severely discriminated against (and many who work as laborers are literally treated like slaves). In the professional classes, people get paid according to skin color. A white guy gets more than an Indian/Asian guy because of local racist attitudes - its common knowledge (and no one usually hides it) that different ethnicity/skin color puts you in a different pay bracket. This is NOT affirmative action for white people - the firm is trying to deny Indians/Asians the job as they see them as inferior beings. Its racism at its purest and its sick.

For an education on how bad it is for people from the Indian subcontinent in the middle east, check out this recent piece by a British reporter - its about Dubai, which is supposedly the more modern side of the middle east - read it and realize that Saudi is far, far worse. http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

In addition, I will undertake firm-wide training to make sure that this never happens again.

Thank you for bringing to my attention.

Yours faithfully,

Salah Al-Hejailan CBE

In other words - he will make sure that next time, his employees are properly trained to hide their racial prejudices and not display them so blatantly. Interesting that while he claims to have a diverse mix of lawyers, they were clearly all either arab or "Anglo Saxon". Nobody from the "Asian sub continent" in the hallowed portals of the law firm of salah whatever his name is...

I also co-sign 128. The job posting and email were explicitly racist. Those calling it a "PC" criticism apparently have no problem with excluding a particular group (South Asians, in this case) from employment. Yet, they hate AA, because it supposedly excludes whites. Perhaps they just care about exclusion when it supposedly excludes whites, I don't know.

I also agree that you frat boys should lay off Elie. This is the most interesting post on this site in a while. Some of us are secure enough in our abilities to compete even if we don't benefit from AA.

I also co-sign 128. The job posting and email were explicitly racist. Those calling it a "PC" criticism apparently have no problem with excluding a particular group (South Asians, in this case) from employment. Yet, they hate AA, because it supposedly excludes whites. Perhaps they just care about exclusion when it supposedly excludes whites, I don't know.

I also agree that you frat boys should lay off Elie. This is the most interesting post on this site in a while. Some of us are secure enough in our abilities to compete even if we don't benefit from AA.

You've got to admire their honesty. When Americans favor one race over another we use euphemisms like "life experience" and "diversity." The Saudis, it seems, have the courage to admit to what they're doing. Good for them.

Great post Elie. This job ad is blatantly racist and shame on Freshfields for being associated with this firm. Given the number of attorneys in Freshfields who are of South Asian origin one would think 'cultural' issues like this would be vetted for years before regional alliances are formed.

poor me.

it's so hard to be a white man in the legal profession. i have no role models at my firm. none of the heavy hitters look at me and see themselves 20 years ago. they don't volunteer to show me the ropes. hell, they won't even assign me any work!

all the rainmakers are wise old latinas, and all they want to do is feed the best work to their own kind. when i walk into a conference room, before i even open my mouth, everyone assumes i was hired because of my race, and not because i'm 15 times smarter than they are. and if they've never seen me before, they sometimes assume i'm a paralegal or a court reporter or a secretary or a janitor.

it's really rough being a white man in the legal profession.

This is no mistake. This is was direct discrimination against all people, including Arab nationals. To clarify, Heijalan wants a blond hair blue-eyed lawyer that doesn't have the name of Hassan Mohammed, Pradeep Singh, Jung Wong, Takashi Fujimori, Jose Gonzales, Avi Goldstein (unless he can change his name), Mobuto Kwame. He is looking for a John Frankford, Michael Smith, Chris Charles, George W. Bush. This isn't a case of discrimination against South East Asians, which does exist, but this is discrimination against everybody who is not "a blond haired blue-eyed Devil (quoting Malcolm X)."

Our Firm will only hire female Brazilian lawyers with 36 - 26 - 26 measurements. No experience required in any form of law. Send picture first!

I agree with 138. While this job posting is significant because it highlights the explicit exclusion of certain races and ethnicities in the Arab world, if we are going to use it as a jumping off point for a debate about affirmative action and diversity in the U.S., then it becomes a difficult counter-example for supporters of race-based preferences here in America.

If the exclusionary part of the job post about MENA or Asian Sub-Continent applicants is omitted, I have no doubt that Elie and his ilk would have still complained mightily about the racism of the posting. However, with the explicit exclusionary barrier removed, the post would have little meaningful difference from minority job fairs, law firm and corporate hiring practices and a myriad of other arenas where race-based preferences are employed in the U.S.

I'm sure Elie would have some sort of flip comment in response (see the "white job fair" remark, which I think was intended to mean that "regular" job fairs, although never stated, are always "white job fairs"), but a more honest player would probably say something like: "The Arab law firm is hiring a white person for the wrong reasons, i.e. because whites are perceived as intellectually superior, better liked, and more attractive and because the minority candidates are perceived in an opposite manner. So, the job posting is very explicitly racist."

That's a fine explanation, but it lays bare the real motives of those who support race-based preferences in hiring and education in the U.S. For them, it's only acceptable to discriminate based on race when you're doing it for a virtuous reason, namely correcting for historic discrimination. If this rationale is not used, then the Saudi law firm has as equally a powerful argument to support wanting an Anglo-Saxon candidate -- he or she would better serve Western clients -- as American law firms (or other businesses and educational institutions), who constantly tell us that they value diversity because it's good business to have all sorts of people in an organization that serves a global economy.

Although I think that all race-based preferences violate the fundamentals of the equal protection clause, I can, at least, respect those who support it to correct historic discrimination. At least, this is a coherent, if misguided and unconstitional, view.

However, the "diversity" mantra that has replaced the traditional rationale for raced-based preferences (following the Supreme Court's rejection of the traditional rationale) is quite the opposite, and I think it's interesting how this example from half a world away eats away at the diversity conceit.

The Affiliate is Fares Al Hejailan not Slalah AL Hejailan!!!!!!
as it shown it their webe site:
Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP working in association with the Law Firm of Fares Al-Hejailan

http://www.freshfields.com/locations/saudiarabia/offices/

The Affiliate is Fares Al Hejailan not Slalah AL Hejailan!!!!!!
as it shown it their webe site:
Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP working in association with the Law Firm of Fares Al-Hejailan

http://www.freshfields.com/locations/saudiarabia/offices/

American law firms are racist in the same way, they're just not as explicit about it. What do you think minority job fairs are all about? If American firms could advertise for a "black associate," they would.

This post displays an unfamiliarity with the Middle East. A visit to any gulf countries will reveal two types of people: the Arabs, who are from the particular country, and the South Asians, who are brought in to work on construction and at retails stores, etc. They are tolerated, but looked down upon, and definitely excluded from any role beyond their particular job. You will notice that the "very diverse" organization consists exclusively of whites and Arabs. They meant what they said in the original email. When they got called out on it, they retracted, but they are still not going to hire an Indian lawyer with a degree from Oxford and an LLM from Harvard who speaks perfect English. Racism runs deep in the gulf...

This post displays an unfamiliarity with the Middle East. A visit to any gulf countries will reveal two types of people: the Arabs, who are from the particular country, and the South Asians, who are brought in to work on construction and at retails stores, etc. They are tolerated, but looked down upon, and definitely excluded from any role beyond their particular job. You will notice that the "very diverse" organization consists exclusively of whites and Arabs. They meant what they said in the original email. When they got called out on it, they retracted, but they are still not going to hire an Indian lawyer with a degree from Oxford and an LLM from Harvard who speaks perfect English. Racism runs deep in the gulf...

This post displays an unfamiliarity with the Middle East. A visit to any gulf countries will reveal two types of people: the Arabs, who are from the particular country, and the South Asians, who are brought in to work on construction and at retails stores, etc. They are tolerated, but looked down upon, and definitely excluded from any role beyond their particular job. You will notice that the "very diverse" organization consists exclusively of whites and Arabs. They meant what they said in the original email. When they got called out on it, they retracted, but they are still not going to hire an Indian lawyer with a degree from Oxford and an LLM from Harvard who speaks perfect English. Racism runs deep in the gulf...

The author of the communication will not truly be subjected to sanctions as they followed a directive to fill the position. You think they made that selection criterion up themselves? Grow a brain!

The "leadership" response to the issue was crafted to address what American's will interpret as severe racism.

Racism exists in America and in the world, so stop with the outrage. The difference between this solicitation for candidates and any other written to an American audience is honesty. If you think that recruiters and managers in America don't have code words for who they want to hire, your pathetically niave. Calls for diversity fairs, diversity hiring practices, and diversity statistics within American company's are an advertising/marketing ploy, and little else. It's better than nothing, but it's still not good.

Read 121's post, it's the only one that makes sense, then give up trying to unify the world - its too soon for that.

Never have I ever seen such total pwnage of Elie Mystal, and I have seen a lot of pwnage of MysTTTal.

This post displays an unfamiliarity with the Middle East. A visit to any gulf countries will reveal two types of people: the Arabs, who are from the particular country, and the South Asians, who are brought in to work on construction and at retails stores, etc. They are tolerated, but looked down upon, and definitely excluded from any role beyond their particular job. You will notice that the "very diverse" organization consists exclusively of whites and Arabs. They meant what they said in the original email. When they got called out on it, they retracted, but they are still not going to hire an Indian lawyer with a degree from Oxford and an LLM from Harvard who speaks perfect English. Racism runs deep in the gulf...

142,

Learn to read.

I thought that South Asians actually are of the Caucasian ethnicity. They are not Anglo-Saxons, though. Too bad English and American law firms can't put "No Arabs need apply" in their job ads. I wonder how old LFSH would feel about that?

162,

How many Arabs do you see in law firms? It is de facto in place.

This post displays an unfamiliarity with the Middle East. A visit to any gulf countries will reveal two types of people: the Arabs, who are from the particular country, and the South Asians, who are brought in to work on construction and at retails stores, etc. They are tolerated, but looked down upon, and definitely excluded from any role beyond their particular job. You will notice that the "very diverse" organization consists exclusively of whites and Arabs. They meant what they said in the original email. When they got called out on it, they retracted, but they are still not going to hire an Indian lawyer with a degree from Oxford and an LLM from Harvard who speaks perfect English. Racism runs deep in the gulf...

149,

Maybe they wouldn't assume that you were hired for your race - if you weren't hired for your race...

If and when 165 is ever hired, it will definitely be for his white supremacist worldview. Strong work, 165.

Freshfield's affiliate ended up hiring a western trained Saudi for its Riyadh office.

167 is wrong.

Good luck to Freshfields with their association with Salah. Seems no proper due diligence has been done (or the results have been ignored).