Michigan Football is a TTT. So are the rest of the big ten. Geaux Tigers.

Michigan Football is a TTT. So is the rest of the big ten. Geaux Tigers.

At least they are trying to help. That $4,000 fellowship sounds ideal for those of us deferred until "January". Add the $10K from the firms and you are living quite well.

This has nothing to do with the State of Michigan - either its politicians or its budget - UofM Law is almost entirely privately funded (thank goodness, otherwise it would surely be a Tier 3 school by now) - a proud UofM alum

The entire state of Michigan = TTT.

Michigan law isn't acting like a public school because, for all intents and purposes, it isn't. It gets less than 2% of its funding from the state. That means that the law school essentially operates like a private school, relying on endowments, alumni donations (from an incredibly loyal alumni group), and other fundraising.

START TEACHING US HOW TO PRACTICE. I don't care what some Judge from 1600s England thinks about Real Estate Transactions, I want to know how to DO Real Estate Transactions....

Think long-term. Teach law students how to practice...

5 is spot on. Much like most other similarly ranked schools, Michigan has a large endowment due to generous donations from alumni. Come on Elie, use some common sense when writing these posts.

They teach real law at SMU. That is why most Texas lawyers are better than those of their Northeastern counterparts.

If I was going to pay $42,000 - $44,000 each year for a public law school, I would expect a guaranteed $160K starting job and a lot of blowjobs.

Michigan failed to make that promise.

re: UNC

Um, Michigan charges a heck of a lot more in tuition than UNC. Maybe a smaller proportion of their operations is funded by the state?

What's that Harvard rapid descent link? It takes me to some Outlook log-in page.

What's that Harvard rapid descent link? It takes me to some Outlook log-in page.

Comment removed by moderator.

When I enrolled at Michigan Law, the career office counselors really went through great lengths to assist students in job-hunts.
I did not participate in OCI at all because the market I sought was too small. The staff not only reviewed resumes, gave advice on job search and interview techniques, but also put me in touch with local alumni and found a legal job bulletin board from the local school for me.
They also hold frequently lunch programs that generally discuss job hunts and stuff.

I don't know if any other school provides this kind of detailed assistance. I do know that my husband, who is currently enrolled at Berkeley Law, does not get even a third of the attention or resources from their career office.

Why aren't ALL law schools taking similar steps to help their students? Why are only the top law schools taking initiative?

This is good to hear - all reasonable and effective steps.

- Another Proud UM Grad

I went to U. of M. Law and graduated when the dot com bubble burst. I was left without a job (as were a number of my classmates). The career services office did jack shit for me or anyone else at U. of M. that was in a similar circumstance. All the head of that office seemed to want to do was pop out babies. Fucking useless. It took me years to claw my way back to where I should have been upon graduation. Maybe they've improved, but I doubt it. I suspect this is all p.r. bullshit.

I went to U. of M. Law and graduated when the dot com bubble burst. I was left without a job (as were a number of my classmates). The career services office did jack shit for me or anyone else at U. of M. that was in a similar circumstance. All the head of that office seemed to want to do was pop out babies. Fucking useless. It took me years to claw my way back to where I should have been upon graduation. Maybe they've improved, but I doubt it. I suspect this is all p.r. bullshit.

I went to U. of M. Law and graduated when the dot com bubble burst. I was left without a job (as were a number of my classmates). The career services office did jack shit for me or anyone else at U. of M. that was in a similar circumstance. All the head of that office seemed to want to do was pop out babies. Fucking useless. It took me years to claw my way back to where I should have been upon graduation. Maybe they've improved, but I doubt it. I suspect this is all p.r. bullshit.

I think this calls out UNC for their cheapness and poor management. UNC law relentlessly PROMOTES themselves as serving the interests of students who want to go into public interest work. They used to (i suppose they can't anymore) call themselves the "public interest" law school, so it is obvious that they attracted at least some (idealistic) students by advertising this.

So yeah, very shitty of them to yank the loan repayment assistance program (LRAP?) for the kids who were depending on it. Especially when they just sent out a huge list boasting all the hundreds upon hundreds of donors to the school this year. Especially when the class of 2008's class gift was student donations we were told would FUND the LRAP (!!! Where'd my hundred bucks go, Boger?!) Especially when Boger and the rest of the ineffective muckety-mucks are up there making 250+k for a 9-5. If the 10-15 people in the administration making six+ figures would have foregone just a fraction of their salary this year, they could have helped many public interest law students make a dent in their loan repayment... help they were counting on...

So much for UNC being a 'public interest' law school.

19-20-21 - and still after a decade you don't know how to post on a blog. Maybe you were kicked to the curb for a reason?

Wow, 16 is blatantly a Michigan career office employee.

I like how he/she puts the "and stuff" in there to seem more hip/young.

In response to 22 -- I guess ignorance is bliss! This had nothing to do with cheapness or management. A state budget freeze ordered by the NC governor canceled this year's program. The UNC Law School had the program cut out from under it by powers beyond the school's control.

I've had nothing but good interactions with Career Services.

However, that whole only 191 employers at OCI thing is a doozy!

By the way, Sidley NYC isn't showing up. Any other Symplicity lists out there missing SidleyNYC? Maybe they're in trouble, or maybe they just hate us!

Come on, who needs work? Join the party - the FUNEMPLOYMENT party! Of course, that $4k could buy you some sweet tickets to Mongolia to commune with a yak herder - thanks UM!

19, 20, 21, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. All I can say is that I think things have changed. I just graduated from Michigan law, and career services helped me tremendously in getting a federal appellate clerkship and my dream job in my dream city. They were there to help me at every turn. One thing to note, however, is that I aggressively took advantage of all they had to offer.

19-21 - no idea how representative your experiences were with UM's career services back in 2000, but a lot could change in nearly 10 years so not sure why you so strongly doubt improvement.

19/20/21 - we were probably classmates. I survived the dot com bust - yep my SV firm dumped at least 60 first and second year associates in 2000 and 2001 - gave a pittance in severance (and only in exchange for a general release) - and after trying to pound sand in the SF SV market I followed the advice I received from Michigan's career services office to refocus my efforts on markets which still had life (midwestern primarily). I resisted but then followed their guidance and landed with a strong firm in Chicago, lost one year of seniority, but ultimately made partner with my class in litigation (which was not my first choice). Career services does not make the market and cannot manufacture jobs - but at least in my case I thought the advice I received in 2 telephone calls was extremely useful. Go Blue. 8-4 this year

Go Blue!

29&30 -- #19-21 here. I guess maybe reading about U. of M. Law's career service office made me feel a bit bitter. My first few years out of law school were awful. Easily the worst time of my life. I shouldn't be bitter though, things turned out fine. I really do hope career services has improved. I thought the school itself was great, but that department was lacking.

I'm not an employee with the UM career service, I'm a Dec. 2008 grad/associate with a job at a great local firm.
I literally left Michigan 2 hours after my last exam, that's how much I hated being in school and in Michigan in general. So for me to say something nice about MLaw is rare, and I really am grateful for those people who helped me find a job.

-16

26, Sidley NYC is on our Simplicity OCI list at GULC.

34,

Interesting! We have DC, Chicago, and LA.

It's okay, I hear NYC is DONE anyway, according to ATL.

I hope all you current Michigan students are glad I gave the school some positive spin by sending on Dean C.'s e-mail!

Maybe my image will improve somewhat after the whole FOIA thing. ;)

25 - then where'd the money go that all the students paid into LRAP? why would the government seize donations from individuals? Makes no sense.

Glad to see the admin is using their time wisely and going online to defend their actions, one anonymous internet comment posting at a time.

I am not UNC administration and, whether it makes sense or not, the governor in essence seized the funds. As student fees, they are funds subject to state control -- your beef is with the Gov. As any good lawyer would do, you should get your facts straight before you speak. That's what I learned in my classes at UNC!

Univ. of Michigan = "White males need not apply."

35 - Yeah, we've got those offices here at GULC too. While they will show up, I dont' think many, if any, call backs will occur.

22,

Hey dumbfuck, if you were literate enough to read the UNC email, you would know that state budget freezes caused their problems.

There seem to be a lot of UofM employees on the board today. I'm looking at you, 28, 29, and 30!

No 37, donations from alumni also went into the fund.

Did you learn how to be a douchebag at UNC as well?

Hey 40, if you knew anything beyond that email, you know that's not the whole story.

Ari Gold here...When I was graduating with a JD/MBA from UM i made things happen!!!!!!!! you are all whiners....

NOW WHERE'S MY BOY VINNIE CHASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

25 & 37: Do you need a refresher course in reading comprehension? 22 was talking about alumni contributions, not student fees. And yes, i'd bet the admin could make sacrifices elsewhere & at least attempt to fulfill the promises of loan (or at least partial) loan repayment for the affected students. You didn't even address that. UNC is ridiculous, but your arrogance is astonishing.

- not 22, but a public interest lawyer still paying off the debt

41 - If I were a UM employee, I might say something a little more complimentary than pointing out to a disgruntled individual that a lot can happen in 10 years. You're an investigative genius!

No one associated with Michigan would refer to it as "UofM."

What about the sandwich stealing? Nothing hurts Michgan students' job prospects more than their well-deserved reputation for refrigerator raiding.

47 - You are so wrong.

47 - You are so wrong.

So are 22 and 45!!

41, 28 here. Definitely not an employee. I'm actually a Dec. 2008 graduate as well. Summer starter. Currently employed and will clerk next year. Go Blue!

lol. a unc troll lecturing about 'getting facts straight' sure seems ironic when you consider the giraffe head incident...

I wish I went to Michigan right now. The career services at the TTT10 I attend takes days to respond to my emails. Some of the stuff they told my to put on my resume has gotten me laughed out of interviews. Several 2Ls couldn't find jobs until May & have to live off savings for the summer because May is too late to get public interest funding. I also think my school's career services office is working with one less person this year.

They did this in 2005 too - i.e., the Great Unemployed 3L Scholarship Fund of 2005. And then (I assume, based on the published numbers v. number of friends I knew to be unemployed) they counted us as "employed w/n 9 months of graduation" for USNWR purposes.

I had a great time at Michigan, but seriously Career Services was completely. fucking. worthless. PS, We only got $3k. And then they fucking called for donations.

Speaking of law school, I will be starting law school this coming fall.

I am an emo skinny girl with long black hair. I am petite and I get bikini waxed every 6 weeks ; P

What do you all think about the book called "GETTING TO MAYBE?"

Do you also think that "A CIVIL ACTION" is a good book that will give insight into civil procedure?

2009 MLaw grad here, joining V25 firm in Jan 2010.

Career Services at Michigan is amazing. They run a fantastic OCI (esp impressive given the lack of a decent place to run OCI in AA), give tons of useful advice, respond to emails quickly, and basically ask "how high?" whenever you say "jump." I look forward to making continued use of them through my career (I anticipate leaving the law firm world in 2-3 years).

Of course, OCS doesn't make the market, as was mentioned before.

They also aren't a substitute for good grades, a pleasant personality, some degree of ambition, or any of the other individual factors that contribute to getting a good job post-grad. If you don't have a good job (and I don't just mean a BigLaw job; I mean any job you aspire to) after graduating from MLaw, it's categorically not OCS' fault. Maybe you shouldn't have gone to law school, maybe you shouldn't be such a lazy douchebag, maybe you shouldn't be so arrogant, or maybe you should be patient & get something else while your dream opportunity opens up... I don't know what your particular recipe for failure was.

But anyone who blames OCS for not delivering a job offer to their pendaflex by graduation is probably a self-entitled jerk who doesn't deserve what they didn't get.

Such efforts miss the long term problem: TOO MANY LAW GRADS --- way more than the system can handle. The law school industry needs to start "right sizing," just like GM and other businesses that overexpanded. Some schools need to close, while others need to shrink total class size.

Even when the economy "recovers" there is just not enough room for the thousands of grads being pumped out each year (at least not if they all want to earn a decent living).

57 -- I have a great job now. Well compensated and I love it. When I looked for help from the career services people, they didn't do shit, so I struggled through a tough econmic time and worked my way up. In short: I'm doing very well, OCS sucks ass, and you are a fucking annoying piece of shit. Fuck off.

I agree with 59 completely--OCS is great at saying "good for you!" if you have good grades and and cruise right into a firm job. Of course, they played no part in that happening because it would have happened anyway. But for everyone else, especially in the climate today, their help is certainly wanting.

As an example, why is Symplicity not updated with jobs year-round? I can confirm that almost all other t-20 law schools, especially ones ranked LOWER than Michigan, they are updated year round. Michigan's is BLANK aside from the OCI section. This is inexcusable. The good things that have happened to me jobwise while at Michigan have been completely of my own endeavors; OSC certainly was very nice, but at the end of the day, nothing was to be gained from them. I don't feel comfortable saying the same about Public Interest, but it seems that Michigan has its share of problems in that area too.

Unfortunately, Michigan seems to have ridden the bubble of the last two decades like lots of law firms did--assume that it would never end and all they had to do was set up OCI and everyone would get some sort of job. Those days are over, and it's time for OCS to get in gear. Sad, but true---and people should know.

Michigan law isn't acting like a public school because, for all intents and purposes, it isn't. It gets less than 2% of its funding from the state. That means that the law school essentially operates like a private school, relying on endowments, alumni donations (from an incredibly loyal alumni group), and other fundraising. http://www.Start-an-Internet-business.net

#24, you may be right, but there is enough demographic information in that post to verify whether or not such a person exists. At any rate, my experience with Michigan's career services people also was extremely positive, so I'm inclined to believe it was a real post. It doesn't surprise me at all to hear that Career Services is working on creative situations for any students that happen to be affected by the poor economy.

And to echo what others have said, Michigan Law is unofficially a private law school. It has considered going entirely private, but has maintained its nominal connection to the state in large part because of its connection to the University, which receives a significantly larger share of its funding from the state.

I graduated in 2006 and found OCS to be useful if you wanted to go the route of the masses and useless if you wanted to do something out of the norm. I was in the latter category, but found a job pretty quickly without any help from OCS. I probably owe some opening of doors and ears to UM's reputation for which I paid dearly.

I haven't and won't give a dime to UM post-graduation. The tuition was extremely high, and anything I give now would just be enabling.