Morrison & Foerster Starting Salaries Are Still Up in the Air
Incoming first-year associates at Morrison & Foerster will not be able to start until April 2010. When they do, you can bet they’ll be happy to show up for early morning calisthenics, after they’ve had to wait for so long to live the dream.
But how much will they be getting paid? As of right now, the firm isn’t sure. The first years who plan to start in April received a message from the firm this afternoon:
I am writing to confirm April 5, 2010 as your starting date as an associate at Morrison & Foerster, subject to acceleration to a mutually agreeable earlier date if the need arises. You will join the firm as a member of the salary class of 2009 (subject to any standard salary credit associated with advanced degrees).Additionally, I want to let you know that we are reviewing market data regarding starting salaries. We will contact you closer to your starting date to confirm starting salaries. We will provide an updated offer letter, along with an updated handbook, at that time.
The recruiting department will be contacting you to confirm the details of your $5,000 monthly stipend for the period from November 2, 2009 through the date you join the firm, as well as reimbursement of up to $500 per month of your health insurance premium.
We look forward to welcoming you to the firm.
If you have any questions about your start date, or other matters, please contact the recruiting department in your office.
More details after the jump.
If the past is any indication of the future, incoming MoFos should be prepared to wait a long, long time to find out how much they are getting paid. Remember, these are the same people who were told on January 28th:
[T]he earliest initial starting date that we now anticipate would be November 2, 2009. We are committed to working to provide greater certainty regarding starting date alternatives as the year progresses and as we are in a better place to assess the opportunities for effectively incorporating new lawyers into the practice.
But they had to wait until May 4th to learn that they wouldn’t be starting until April 2010.
It’s also worth remembering that MoFo is the firm that adjusted its associate bonus structure (downward) after the structure had already been announced.
Associates won’t really know their first-year starting salary until a mail room guy physically places a check on their desk.
Of course, that places MoFo first years in the exact same position as every other deferred first-year attorney. There’s not a single deferred graduate out there who is so confident about having a $160K starting salary that they are going to, say, borrow against it between now and whenever they are supposed to start. Right?
I hope not. Fool me once, shame on you …
Earlier: MoFo Watch: Incoming First Years Wait (almost) Patiently For Answers and Money
Nationwide Start Date Watch: MoFo Comes Up With an Interesting Package
Nationwide Bonus Watch: MoFo Giveth, Then Taketh Away
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Comments
Typo in second paragraph. And first.
Come on - at least it was posted after 5!
I don't know what's worse: starting your job next April, or not having a job and not being able to land an interview.
None of this is news. No incoming associate has a job until they sit at their desk and collect a pay check. Even then, they may not be there for long.
The only question is whether firms start bumping incoming associate start dates back again, or they simply start rescinding offers.
They don't get paid unless they get to work at 8:30 am at the latest.
I would love a message like this from my V50 firm. At least MoFo is confirming that the incoming associates will eventually start at the firm. What do I have? A mythical January start date and a lot of law to learn for the bar.
There is no way in hell firms will start associates in January. The work is simply not there for us.
Mark this post: at some point in August, firms that deferred will defer again and/or revoke offers entirely. The class of 2009 is FUCKED.
6,
I am in the same boat as you. Firms will take first-years...but probably not all of them.
7 - I know. But how will the firms decide who to take and who to fuck over for life? Reviews from last summer are already getting stale. So what else is there to base a decision on?
MMMMHHHHH!! MY HOLE IS HUNGRY!
9: i know that is stupid but i laughed
"Mark this post: at some point in August, firms that deferred will defer again and/or revoke offers entirely."
And firms that never deferred?
Why practice law anyway? There's more to life than having a decent job, decent pay, and a warm place to take a shit.
6/8,
I have no idea. Sometimes you just have to accept that things are out of your control. I'd imagine they'll take first years in busier departments and probably those from the top schools. In the end, it may just boil down to luck.
Now, I mean this in the most sincere, encouraging way....don't be such a pussy. If the worst happens, your life is not over. Keep working hard and learn as much about practicing law as you can during your deferral period. Operate under the assumption that you will run shit one day. Even if that's a long-shot, it's the attitude you've gotta have as a deferred 3L if you're going to survive in this business.
7/deferred incoming associate
The bubble just deflated a bit more...
13 - thanks for the honest advice. I will try to not be such a pussy, for realz.
Come August, and especially in the fall, it will be too late for firms to do anything drastic. They won't have the cover of the financial crisis. So rescinded offers is unlikely, unless a firm is really in dire straits. I think 3Ls should feel comfortable that they'll have a job, but it may be for a lower salary.
Where is the part where MysTTTal stalks a racist?
Where is the part where MysTTTal stalks a racist?
what are you complaining about? $5000/month plus health insurance to sit on your ass? it's like i died and went to Sweden.
Clearly, Mofo is trying to head off any Sec. 90 claims.
Is Kash dating anyone? (a friend wants to know)
David and Elie: Please stop objectifying and exploiting Kash. Also, would either one of you know if she's seeing anyone? (a friend wants to know)
First to say well played number 1.
MoFucked.
Any advice to recent graduates trying to find work at small firms?
Does Kash like walking on the beach at sunset? (a friend wants to know)
Hey Kash, cats or dogs? Innie or outie? Sixteen candles or breakfast club? (a friend wants to know)
As the leader of a major dildo syndicate, I must say that I was very displeased with MoFo's handling of our lawsuit against another major dildo syndicate; as it turns out, they simply took our evidence and used it themselves
Fool me twice, fool me, can't get fooled again. . .
9 is the best thing to come along in months.
Flow Chart for 25:
1. What is your undergrad?
A. if engineering, go to 2.
B. if science, go to 3
C. if other, go to 9.
2. A. mechanical? go to 4.
B. electrical? go to 4.
C. computer? go to 4.
D. industrial? go to 9.
3. A. chemistry or biology? go to 4
B. social? go to 9.
4. Do you speak Chinese? if no, go to 5, if yes, go to 6.
5. Learn Chinese.
6. if Mandarin, go to 7, if Cantonese, go to 8
7.
8. See 7.
9.
Entries for 7 and 9 are left as exercises for the student.
This is news? Look at some firms' NALP forms. It says that compensation for 2009 is TBD. The fact of the matter is that it's the case for all incoming attornies that their salary is subject to change. As a matter of fact, I am willing to wager that the VAST MAJORITY of incoming associates will start at less than $160,000.
Scared 3L: At least you have an offer that will most likely mean you will be employed at some point. Imagine the 2Ls who are struggling to even get an offer in this rough environment. And even if a 2L does get an offer they know that there is a good chance they will be deferred as well. The 2Ls are the ones who have it really rough. Although there is enough bad news to go around for everyone.
Kash is currently in a very long term relationship with an asslobster.
Look, if you're getting my Long Island ass of to work and into the office by 8 a.m. for jumping jacks and a day spent hopping in my office, you had damn well better pay me and give me a starting date.
I love their logo. One is an African American and the other a Smurf?
33,
I assume you are serious? While it is certain that fewer offers will be extended to 2L's --
There is also an argument to be made that 2L's are not yet locked into a city and a firm, and that they can also engage in some defensive hedging. -- eg pursuing additional offers, looking at smaller cities. And they can create fall back strategies -- plus they'll know that an offer (or even a job) at some firms may not be entirely secure.
When I graduated from my TTT law school 30 odd years ago, it was the other end of the bubble. Biglaw jobs were hard to get from my school. Fellow Law Review top 10 students went 1)to the federal government (good luck now) 2) to the top firms in the local market area, like Atlanta or Tampa or Miami 3) got clerking jobs at the top firms in our city for our 3L year and got offers from them to stay. Tax LLM's were popular. There always seems to be a shortage of labor and immigration lawyers.
I would say that the best way to get a biglaw job remains scoring a COA clerkship followed by a district court clerkship.
The second best is to find an arcane area of law at a federal agency that you like (FCC, FERC, NRC, CIA etc ) and work there for a couple of years.
I know two guys, good lawyers, who do much better than I do -- both were C+ students. One was really good at finding paralyzed personal injury victims, the other collected money down on the docks for Frick and Frack in cash, carrying a gun) and is now one of the leading creditor bankruptcy attorneys.
So there's strategies to get there after a bit of a detour. Of course, if you can get your mom, dad or a close friend elected to the Board of a Fortune 200 company, that's a good strategy too.
its wonderfully written. i like it.i appreciate it.thanks for sharing. http://www.legalroadmap.com/
Salaries may be adjusted. Instead of 95% SA offers, there will likely be 75%. Most first years will start in Jan. But the major adjustments - layoffs, deferrals - have already been made.
Mo Fo = Mother Fucker
Mo Fo = Mother Fucker
I'm an associate. I'd happily take a $5,000 a month sabbatical so an eager-to-go recent law school grad could start on time. It's a great deal, everyone should relax and have a good time until April.
If you are smart and if you to be able to look back on your life and be proud of it, for god's sake don't go to biglaw!!!! Follow your bliss.
How much worse can things get over at MoFo?
Well let's see ...... Mr. Echostar has just been demoted to the "management" "team". Checkmate!
As a current MoFo associate -- one who has no intention of showing up on a regular basis at 8 am, for jumping jacks or any other purpose -- I would happily take $5000/month + health insurance from the firm to *not* work there. I wish the firm would offer this deferral package to current associates, thus freeing up room for all the summers who are stupid enough not to want the deferral, to start on time.
45: I don't necessarily think it's stupid to not want the deferral. Working would bring in over twice the income not-working would. For those of us with families, that really, really matters (it would've mattered to me single, too). The shelf life of an associate is pretty short and I can understand wanting to make as much as you can as soon as you can.
That being said, $5K per month as a placeholder is far from shit money.
Given the shit storm with all the deferrals / possible rescinds this year, you would think big firms will cut back severely on hiring for the Class of 2011. No? Seems like it would be better to have snuck in at the last minute (even if you take a pay cut) than having the door slammed shut in your face.
I though about this long and hard, but I have finally come to a decision. This firm is run by complete HACKS! There are certain parts about MoFo's no BS position that I like, however, they are officially Hacks!
I feel bad for those deferred associates who will turn into hacks themselves once they join the firm for $90,000 in Big Markets..hahaha.
Denny Crane
P.S. No tubsters here at CP&S
36 - "Black and blue" -- beaten up badly.
Reminds me a "nasty" but enjoyable experience I had at Toga party in a San Fran "health club". Took a while for the swelling to go down, but the smile lasted even longer ;) . The oyster came good eventually.
"African Americans" are a rare species here, but smurfs are growing on trees. The smurfs are running the show. They are not good in recessions.
"We will provide an updated offer letter..." What's the point, they'll just lower the salary again and then provided an update to the updated offer letter...
They keep using this word "offer", I don't think that word means what they think it means...
And like always, IT'S PUSSY FART TIME, BITCHES!!!
40 and 41 you ripped me off and worse mine was a lot better.
- 24
somebody should make a list of the top 10 overhyped firms that everybody realized were TTT's once the economy crashed.
1. Latham
2. Mofo
etc., etc., etc.
Ex-MoFo Associate,
The ship be sinking... and I am making more now than I did when I was at MoFo... without the calisthenics, though I could probably stand to do a few.
MoFo leadership is disingenuous, and really doesn't care about their associates. Each practice group runs like its own little law office and treat their associates like drones. I used to enjoy working there, but not that I am not, I realized that the grass is indeed greener on this side.
Why is this news? MoFo sent these emails out to incoming associates over a month ago?
There are many reasons why MoFo sucks. The most recent one? A SF corporate paralegal is going on maternity leave and they offered $30/hr as a salary. The nerve!
For $5k a month, you could count me as funemployed.
MoFo is going down... I can't believe they would risk their reputation with a stupid email like this. Lower if you must, but don't be the only V25 to do it.
58, I guarantee you MoFo will no longer be "V25" when those rankings come out. It never belonged there in the first place; just got weirdly overvalued because a bunch of cheerleaders managed to convince gullible law students that it was a "lifestyle" firm rather than a place where associates do doc review for their first three years and don't even get depo experience until they're mid-levels. It's like Skadden with less lucrative and dumber partners.
King & Spalding Socked with $90k Discovery Sanction
This is one of those "think before you leap" lessons. Lawyer A says Lawyer B had obstructed discovery and misrepresented facts to the court. Judge says he's going to figure out who's telling the truth. He did so. Essentially, the court lambasted K&S's counsel for accusing Duane Morris's counsel of being uncooperative in discovery. The order in the patent infringement suit of CBT Flint Partners v. Return Path, No. 1:07-CV-1822 (N.D. Ga. Aug. 2008) is here:
http://www.dailyreportonline.com/Editorial/PDF/PDF%20Archive/Cisco-order2-081908.pdf
and the an article about it, is here:
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202423885428
Why would anyone in their right mind hire King and Spalding ?
NY 1st years do not deserve to be paid more than first years in LA or SF.