First to request Mystal's transfer to ATL's Detroit office. That would be positive.

teach me to write words good
thank you please?

things are getting worse at skadden: SALARIES "TBD" on NALP.

where is ATL on this?!?!?

I drove into Detroit the other day and didn't get shot at. On the other hand, 94 was completely flooded a couple exits from downtown (it had been raining for about an hour; notwithstanding decades of weather data, Michigan's civil engineers apparently overlooked the eventuality of rain in June).

Still, not getting shot at > delays due to Michigan's subpar road drainage, so this is a very positive report.

I am the managing member of a small litigation firm in metro Detroit, and revenue has increased dramatically over the last couple of months.

President Obama is coming to visit in the middle of July. Maybe the ATL staff should follow suit.

I'd rather be laid off and be anywhere else than gainfully employed and living in Detroit

I am a managing partner in an itinerant goat-herding community in Detroit. Our milk production has increased dramatically, and local gang-members no longer use our herd for target practice.

The last time I was in Detroit, it only took me 30 minutes to get to the airport from downtown, even though I left at 5:30. That's a positive (well, for me at least).

Tigers are in first and have the third-best record in baseball at the moment. That's good news for Detroit.

Kwame is not mayor of Detroit any more and their mayor has not been involved in any scandals so far.

Shocking that businesses are leaving Detroit. Here I was thinking that the mayor they elected there a few years ago, you remember the guy who walked around dressed like a pimp and who would show up at court with the bluetoof gadget in his ear, was going to turn that place around. What a surprise.

Hooray for America's first third-world city! To quote Reagan: "we begin bombing in five minutes."

You can buy a house in Detroit for $1. That's positive.

Here's a piece of good news that you missed:

"The Detroit News quotes Honigman Miller Managing Partner David Foltyn as saying that 11 PARTNERS have been terminated from that firm."

Tehran>Detroit

"Usually, Detroit doesn't make the news unless something terrible is happening there."

Not true. Something terrible is always happening in Detroit.

Hell > Detroit

I am a managing partner in a local criminal syndicate. Our drug sale revenue has increased dramatically, foreboding a jump this year in PPP ("Profits Per Playah").

The ship be sinking...

12=racist

Note to Dykema Chairman and CEO Rex Schlaybaugh Jr. -

It is generally not a good idea to allow summer associates to witness a firm giving "severance benefits" to the terminated.

I recently moved from N.Y. to Michigan, and I have a lot of positive news. A lot of the other large firms in Detroit are doing well -- increased salaries, etc. Michigan's standard of living costs allow you to buy a big house, join a posh country club, and have a nice cottage in northern michigan and still save a ton. (Research the real estate listings, entry dues, etc. in the area -- while downtown Detroit struggles, the state itself has suburbs (parks, clubs, etc.)that are on par with and in my view a lot nicer than suburbs outside of N.Y.C., Boston, or Chicago (and probably others, those are the only places I looked).) The state continues to struggle financially, but it is forcing a diversification that was a long time coming and it is providing tremendous value for those who stay. Also, there are still a lot of Fortune 500 companies here besides GM and Chrysler.

All in all though, I am glad people simplify geographic regions to a degree that allows them to give ill-informed opinions about life in Michigan or the Midwest. So Eastcoasters continue feeling sorry for us, and do not visit (I do not want you to ruin a good thing).

@10 that is good news -

although the tigers will get steamrolled by the red sox....

and here comes the red sox/yankees rants....

Note that Mystttal seems hesitant to branch away and write about anything the WSJ Law Blog hasn't first covered.

Way to play it safe.

Check out this alternative online paper in Detroit for good news:

http://modeldmedia.com/

For example, a Tim Horton's is opening up.

i was in detroit a few weeks ago- its a more fun place then most of texas (save austin of course)

the unemployment rate in Metro Detroit is 22%, that's great depression level folks.

also, why did the guy on the LGBT conference call tell people Detroit is one of the places lawyers should be trying to go. i knew that was horrible advice.

My assessment of Detroit's economy and legal market consists of two words: shit sandwich.

27 = Cooley 1L

Tim Horton's is amazing. I don't know what this Dunkin' Donuts thing is all about.

I'm from Michigan. I love my home state. But I know it's screwed.

Not a lot of people realize this, but John Engler, one of Bush's main first term advisors, had the state for eight years BEFORE we elected Bush. My poor home state had 16 years of Free Market, Low Taxes rule. It's over. The tax base is finished. The infrastructure is crumbled past the point of fixing. And the economy is never coming back.

Our small Detroit firm is doing well. Of course, we do 75% bankruptcy work.

Hey MysTTTal:

Detroit sports teams > NYC sports teams

32, you're right, free market must be the problem. Certainly it's not a strangehold by the industry-killing unions and corrupt political pimps like Kwame. Must be the low taxes.

Skadden Detroit is probably going to close its doors. Been slow there for almost a year.

I was half kidding, but no, it's not a stranglehold by industry killing unions, and the politicians are no more corrupt than anywhere else.

Unions represent less than 20% of all workers anyway. But the reason they fought so hard for jobs and benefits was because THOSE HIGH PAYING JOBS MADE UP THE TAX BASE.

The reason you lower taxes to attract industry is so that the industry will pay a living wage to people who will then pay for schools, roads, sewage, and so on. When industry stopped doing that, because the unions were crippled by globalization, the whole thing spiraled down.

When the tax base started to shrink, Engler cut taxes even more, in order to attract more low-wage jobs. Eventually, though, services suffered. Carry that scenario to its logical conclusion, and you have a state full of McDonald's workers, and no clean water. Which, incidentally, is not far off from what you have now.

I'm the managing partner of a Michigan strawberry field. PPP (produce per plants) is waaaaaay down. These tough times have forced me to lay off a few low-producing plants. It sure was tough. I know they don't have families, or mortgages, or even the ability to communicate, but that doesn't make it any easier. Trust me.

The amazing thing is not that Detroit firms are laying off lawyers. The amazing thing is that Detroit has any lawyers left.

First to say DeTTTroiTTT.

Oh and 23 = Jennifer Granholm.

37, yes you're right, Michigan would be a booming worker's paradise if only its taxes were jacked up even higher. It's all Engler and Bush's fault for lowering taxes trying to attract employers.

23 - I lived in MI for 3 years. Specifically, in a suburb of Detroit. That state is FUBAR. They have a very anti-business environment. Gov Granholm doesn't get it. The people are rude and entitlement driven whiners.

The only upside is the natural beauty of the state for the 2 months of the year you aren't freezing you ass off. You can have that hole.

I feel sorry for 23 and the rest of the people that left good jobs with good firms in NY and Chicago to "go back home". There is a reason that the initiation fee at the GPYC is now $2,000 and you can buy a house on Kenwood in the Farms for $700K (for all you non-Detroiters, we are talking 18 room mansions built in the 20s with pools etc.). The west side is no better. Glad I left 15 years ago. Trips to Paris and Disney cost the same no matter where you live and in 30 years when I retire to Naples, I'll have 10 times more in the bank to buy my condo in Pelican Bay. In the meantime, I get to live in a world class city with more to look forward to than just the fireworks and the auto show.

32-

You're an idiot. Unions and high taxes imploded the economy and remember the legislature refused to make the necessary cuts.

-Not an idiot

32 - Detroit started dragging that whole state down in starting in the late 60's/early 70's. Detroit never recovered from the riots and I'm not sure it ever will so long as they keep putting the ilk of Kwame and his Mommy into political office.

38 = 19 = 8 = penis.

32 - Detroit started dragging that whole state down in starting in the late 60's/early 70's. Detroit never recovered from the riots and I'm not sure it ever will so long as they keep putting the ilk of Kwame and his Mommy into political office.

I'm the managing partner of a Detroit-area prostitution ring. Though the economy is bad, our PPP (prostitutes per pimp) is headed through the roof. Must be all the law firm layoffs.

Here's some good news.... the picture you're posting with this article was taken from Windsor, Ontario Canada. Which coincidentally is the best suburb of Detroit.

-Universal Health Care
-Lotsa doctors
-Massage Parlors
-titty bars
-A smoke free casino
-Real Beer
-Tim Horton's all over the place

I have no idea what you are talking about. The media tells me these people can now enjoy FUNemployment.

I moved to Texas a year ago from a Detroit suburb. Before that, I lived on the west side of Michigan for quite a while.

Detroit and Michigan will utimately survive. Houses will continue to get cheaper. But I wouldn't want to be living in the Detroit area for the next ten years: the infrastructure will crumble and there won't be nearly enough jobs to go around.

I'm the managing partner of a Detroit-area prostitution ring. Though the economy is bad, our PPP (prostitutes per pimp) is headed through the roof. Must be all the law firm layoffs.

Hey... here's a good story out of Detroit. The Red Wings won the Stanley Cup....

Oh wait, they lost that too... losing 4 out of the last 5 games.....

23-I am tempted to move. One question-do they have gated communities.

27 - Really? Perhaps because the only time you spent in Texas is when you did time in Huntsville. Then yeah, I can see how Detroit might seem a little better - more free time in the yard.

"37, yes you're right, Michigan would be a booming worker's paradise if only its taxes were jacked up even higher. It's all Engler and Bush's fault for lowering taxes trying to attract employers. "

Michigan was a booming worker's paradise, for a generation. Lower taxes DON'T attract quality employers, quality infrastructure does. And low-wage jobs negatively impact the infrastructure.

Michigan is a mess because no one wants to move there. Granholm tried to fix it, but it was already too late.

There are a few gated areas in the Grosse Pointes and Birmingham/Bloomfield Hills area. There are also some gated houses in Rochester Hills and Novi.

The last point of 43 is so true. People in Detroit for some reason think that their fireworks and auto show (and suburbs and sports fans, etc...) are so great without realizing apparently that LA, NYC, Chicago, DC, etc all have that stuff too, and in each case, without a doubt, they are much better in LA, NYC, Chicago and DC. The only difference is that people in other cities give fireworks and auto shows the appropriate amount of attention, whereas Detroiters jizz in their shorts over them since it is about all they have.

27 - Really? Perhaps because the only time you spent in Texas is when you did time in Huntsville. Then yeah, I can see how Detroit might seem a little better - more free time in the yard.

"37, yes you're right, Michigan would be a booming worker's paradise if only its taxes were jacked up even higher. It's all Engler and Bush's fault for lowering taxes trying to attract employers. "

Michigan WAS a "booming worker's paradise," for an entire generation. You're wrong. Lower taxes DON'T attract quality employers. Quality infrastructure attracts high wage jobs. And high wage jobs improve the infrastructure. Low wage jobs, attracted to the area by lower taxes, are a death spiral for a state unless it has something else going for it - like beautiful weather. Michigan doesn't. All it ever had was workers, and when the low-wage jobs came in, the state's boom years were over. People who think the union cost the state prosperity have it backward. The union was the only reason there was ever any amount of prosperity for that state. Without the union jobs and benefits, there's no reason to live there. Without an educated workforce and a quality infrastructure, there's no reason for high paying industries to locate there.

I'm the managing partner of a Detroit-area prostitution ring. Though the economy is bad, our PPP (prostitutes per pimp) is headed through the roof. Must be all the law firm layoffs.

I don't want to delve too deeply in the economy of a city that I have only driven through on my way to the Windsor casino. But I'm interested in this taxes v. infrastructure debate. It seems to me that business want both low taxes and a world class infrastructure. Usually they can't have both.

But is it possible that Detroit actually provided neither? As in, when taxes were high, the city didn't invest enough in its infrastructure, and that non of the tax cutting regimes re-invested in the city either.

I'm just trying to understand why a city like Detroit ends up like Detroit, but a city like Indianapolis is doing (relatively) fine.
--Elie

Is it possible that Partner Emeritus is actually Kwame Kilpatrick or vice versa?

Does Partner Emeritus admit to being related to Eminem?

Good Detroit news, huh? being a public defender should carry pretty good job security given the crime rate...

56/60 - And what did Granholm do to try to fix things? She ran pharma out of the state - oh, wait, that didn't fix things.

She worked with the auto industry (marginal 3, suppliers, etc.) to get aligned with reality? Um, nope. So just wht did she do?

Yes, in the 40's/50's, it was a workers paradise. But what happened? Surely you won't try to blame THAT decline on contemporary politicians too?

Face it, Detroit sucks.

There are some pretty big differences, but quickly:

- Detroit used racism and post-riot justifications to avoid infrastructure investments.

- Indianapolis created a tourism industry out of racing and basketball.

A large percentage of the cuts made at Dykema occurred in the Chicago office rather than the Michigan offices. In addition, the attorneys were notified in mid April, and thus were gone before the summer associates started.

My flock used to enjoy its annual sojourn by the Detroit River. However, now that the taxes in Detroit are too low, I have decided to summer across the river in Windsor, where my bunions are treated at the local hospital for free while my goats dine like kings upon Tim Horton's. Save a double-double for me, you guys!

There are some pretty big differences, but quickly:

- Detroit used racism and post-riot justifications to avoid infrastructure investments.

- Indianapolis created a tourism industry out of racing and basketball.

- Michigan's workforce was built on transients, while Indiana's was largely more homegrown, so more likely to stay.

- Indiana isn't doing all that well. It's just not as much of a disaster as Detroit.

66 - What was their excuse over the past 20 years for not fixing the infrastructure?

"Without the union jobs and benefits, there's no reason to live there. "

So basically its a s--thole.

Detroit City has been losing people since the late 50s/early 60s. (At one point, it was the 4th or 5th largest metro area in the country). But "white flight" began because the suburbs started having better infrastructure (schools, etc.) and then just continued and continued, especially after the 1967 Detroit riots. My understanding is that the Detroit mayors in the 1980s and 1990s had an "us vs. them" attitude with respect to the suburbs and intentionally made it difficult for people from the burbs to spend much time in downtown Detroit for much of that time. They also didn't do much to try to redevelop Detroit (other than implement a $500+ million People Mover which goes around the central city and not much else) and casinos, which only contributed to the continued isolation and hollowing out of Detroit city and to the urban flight. GM and a few other large companies (DTE Energy) did stay, but the rest went elsewhere. There's no real retail in Detroit city and no real signficant downtown entertainment or restaurants, apart from most of the sports teams, casinos, and two auditoriums, so there's really little reason to go to downtown Detroit for most people in the area. Many of the suburbs of Detroit (Grosse Pointes, Bloomfield Hills, Rochester, Novi, Troy, Auburn Hills, etc.) are better to live in than Detroit and have more things to do more conveniently and better schools.

Indianapolis seems to have done quite a bit more to revitalize its downtown area. The last time I was there (ten years ago) it had much more in the way of activities in the downtown area than Detroit has.

"66 - What was their excuse over the past 20 years for not fixing the infrastructure?"

As someone who grew up in Michigan, I assumed everyone knew this. The Michigan economy was devastated 20 years ago. Things have been bad there since Flint died in the 1980s. Flint wasted some taxpayer dollars trying to "attract" people - most notably with an automobile themed amusement park - but without high payin gjobs, everyone left.

Michigan has been cutting taxes and services ever since. The union, which hadn't fought globalization, has been shrinking and is now barely a blip. The jobs have been disappearing. The population has been declining.

Lower taxes didn't reverse any of it. It just made it all worse. Detroit is full of empty houses. Flint is something like 1/3 of the size it was 25 years ago. And nothing the Republicans did fixed it.

So don't tell me it was the unions. You have no idea what you're talking about.

72 - I agree.

I think you're sort of glossing over the racism, though. "White flight" was a direct response to the civil rights movement, particularly school integration, and people were leaving long before the riots.

"So basically its a s--thole."

Well, it has incredible pollution, crumbling infrastructure, and a standard of living/wage base well below the national average.

You say "shithole," I say "Free Market Paradise."

You may be right, 74. I lived in one of the Grosse Points in 67 and remember the riots (and the smoke I could see in the air in the distance). I'm not surprised that Detroit had trouble getting investment into the city for a long time after those riots.

By the way, Elle, there is some new development/redevelopment right in downtown Detroit. You can get newly redeveloped condos only four or five blocks from the River Walk (it's on the Detroit River that separates Detroit and Windsor) very cheap.

Or, if you prefer, "I dreamed a little dream of deregulation..."

Unions and goatherders are so TTT.

Agreed about the white-flight history, and the statement about the city lacking a centralized entertainment/retail district.

Detroit is unique from most other major cities in that the wealth is concentrated in the suburbs rather than downtown. While the river is beautiful and the architecture that remains has much potential, you can expect wealthy people to move there and just "hope it gets better". It will take investors and initiative-- in a risk that no one wants to take. The best parts of Michigan are about 25 minutes away in every direction, and the west side and northern parts of the state are beautiful.

The Detroit legal market is not the largest, but at one time it prospered. Like one commenter said, there are still many Fortune 500 companies here, and the market isn't obsolete just because the tiny Skadden office is bored. I think it is just hurting like every other market.

Is anyone else killing themselves laughing at 23's assertion that the Detroit suburbs are better than Greenwich, Scarsdale, Weston, or Manchester-by-the-Sea??

76 - I appreciate your support, but I sort of hate that subtle hint of blame (which I may be reading into your post).

People in Michigan always say, "Well after the riots no one wanted to spend money in Detroit." As though nothing else could have possibly been going on, maybe even BEFORE the riots, that would explain it.

People were moving out in the 1950s and 1960s because African Americans were pushing for more equal treatment. It's not like everything was just grand and then, bam, Those People burned the downtown for absolutely no reason.

Wait. The Detroit area generally does not have bad pollution (there still may be some problems with some communities to the south of Detroit like Wyandotte, but it's generally many times better than, say, Gary, Indiana). In terms of value for your dollar, the Troy area (which is about 16-20 miles directly north of Detroit city) is one of the most affordable large cities and best large places in the US to live according to several surveys. It also has good schools and good shopping and a high median income and education level. (I'm not sure how the Big 3 and supplier bankruptcies will affect it, though).

Much of the Detroit area is no where near as bad as you're making it out to be.

82 - I agree with you. I was thinking of the more rural areas of the state when I mentioned the pollution - and you're right that Indiana is worse.

I'd just like to note that every positive that you listed required infrastructure investment - including the "Best Places to Live" rating. Cities get those by spending a lot of money and time wooing the people in charge of the surveys. It's not something that happens in a vacuum.

Detroit was a worker's paradise when the big 3 car makers dominated the market and didn't have to face real competition. It used to be that what was good for GM was good for America. The economy never diversified, and with the decline of the Big 3, Detroit no longer had a reason to exist. Too bad reality is not like the game Simcity where you can just press a button and blow up the whole city and start over. I think it was Flint that recently raised the idea of simply bulldozing entire neighborhoods and returning them to nature. The city would then have the chance to regrow itself organically. This is a great idea.

Detroit's population is 82% black, while Indianapolis is 26% black.

So one time there were these two goatherders, one from Detroit and the other from Windsor. The Canadian goatherder came upon the American and found him pounding a goat in the ass that had it's head stuck in a fence. "That sure looks like fun," said the Canadian goatherder to the American. "Oh, it is," the American replied, "Would you like to have a turn?" "Would I ever!" exclaimed the Canadian as he bent over and jammed his head in the fence.

85 - Detroit's population was majority white before African Americans started expecting to go to school with everyone else. Or vote.

Racism has motivated a lot of the lack of investment, and for that reason, I don't feel that sorry for the city.

80, you're right that 23's comment about Detroit's suburbs being nicer than NYC's is ridiculous. But 35-yr-old lawyers in Detroit can afford to live in Bloomfield Hills or Grosse Pointe and have a vacation house in Charlevoix. 35 yr old lawyers in NYC aren't allowed to drive through Greenwich or the Hamptons. 23's comment should have been that the suburbs young Detroit lawyers live in are nicer than the suburbs NYC lawyers can afford to live in. That's true for any low-cost-of-living city, and it's why we don't all live in NYC.

Detroit is actually a very attractive area to live in. While the city itself has suffered since the riots in '67 there has been a lot of recent development activity taking place in the downtown. Once the economy turns around, Detroit's downtown should experience a significant revival. Detroit's suburbs also compare favorably to the best suburbs in the nation. Before the current auto-crisis the top suburbs in Oakland County were among the wealthiest in the country and Grosse Pointes is an excellent community on the water just 10 miles from downtown. The metro-area has around 6 million people (making it one of the 10 largest cities in the country) and contains a number of cultural attractions. Metro-Detroit has incredible access to large bodies of water and many Detroiters have cottages and cabins in northern Michigan.

It's unfair to judge the metro-area by the city itself because of the unique problems that have plagued the city of Detroit. That being said, there is a incredibly strong and growing creative community in the city. The city has all the natural resources to be a truly world-class city (like it was in the early part of the century). The current crisis is forcing to Detroit and Michigan to emphasize supporting a diversified knowledge based economy, this should bode well for the state over the long-term.

Finally, the large Detroit law firms have been living through a recession for the better part of the last decade so they were better prepared for this crisis than other firms. The Detroit cuts, so far, have actually been much less severe than cuts at many other large firms. Detroit firms began diversifying their business long ago and many, like Dykema, have established offices from coast to coast. Working at large Detroit law firms provides opportunities to work for some of the largest global corporations on significant matters (for example, Honigman is co-counsel to GM's bankruptcy) while also getting substantially more experience than at other big firms in large markets.

Wait until football season for the good news.

I'm amazed at how many people feel the need to express negative opinions of Detroit.

When I see person X put down person Y, I almost always get the feeling that person X is trying to compensate for his/her own insecurity.

The Detroit area is a great place to live. If other places are also great, I am pleased.

I wonder why so many people actually take the time out of their busy days to post the reasons that they don't like some place to which they have no connection. I think it stems from the perverse feeling that their lot is better because they don't have it is as bad as the next guy. Yet, their lot remains unchanged, and their wasted effort represents lost opportunity to improve themselves.

Why would I spend my time writing this? Because I hope at least one person takes it to heart and attempts to make their own life better or the lives of others better rather than continue to convince themselves that having a comparatively better lot means jack sh!t.

87 -- is your comment in support of racism? Detroit is in bad shape, the majority of its population is African American so people do not invest in the city "and for that reason, I don't feel that sorry for the city." Horrible thing to say.

What does TTT stand for?

88, I don't live in NYC either (I'm in Boston, which is only slightly less expensive these days). It is a valid point that one's money goes much further in smaller, lower-COL cities and states. I nearly wound up in-house right out of law school at one of the two Fortune 25 corporations in Cincinnati.

Not to be a jackass, but I don't think anyone can drive THROUGH the Hamptons, because there is nothing on the other side. They would wind up in the ocean.

80

As long as Robocop stays in Detroit, I don't think there should be any problems.

Oh, and (to 58) the DC auto show really sucks. I was there this year and the year before. Very few concept cars or anything cool at all. Pretty blah if you ask me.

Anyday now, Batman will return from his soul-searching with R'as Al Ghul and polish the streets with those hoodlums.

Hold on. All my professors in college told me that the plight of black people in America is caused by us evil white people. This has caused much guilt and caused me to vote Democratic. Now there's a city which is pretty much all black and it's NOT heaven on earth. Well that just makes no sense.

93 - TetraThydroThannabinol

I live in Oakland County (about 20 miles north of Detroit), work at a 30-lawyer shop, have never billed more than 1875 hrs/yr and make $155,000/yr. That's enough to support a family of four in a 3000 sq ft house and have plenty of toys. True, I don't visit downtown unless I am going to Fed Court or Wayne County Circuit Court (or a Wings/Lions/Tiger game). My community is gorgeous. Let all the haters keep spewing bile about the "Detroit area." I'll keep enjoying my slice of heaven.

Elie - did you check out the Windsor ballet while you were over there?

Detroit in general is Cleveland, just 10 or 20 years in the future. Give it time, all of your Detroit lifers... eventually you will have company from Clevelanders whose industry and tax base are also slipping away before their eyes.
That said, Cleveland's firms appear to have gotten the jump on Detroit's... layoffs in CLE started back in the fall with salary cuts to boot. So call that a positive for Detroit - at least it's not Cleveland's legal market!

Canadian strippers are hot.

I'm an East Coast transplant to metro Detroit. Detroit law firms offer cllents access to great lawyers at much lower rates than comparable lawyers nearly anywhere else (just compare Honigman's rates to Weil Gotshal's). The suburbs are as nice as any in the U.S. and a LOT more affordable, and northern Michigan is a slice of heaven. Yeah, the economy's currently in the tank, and we miss a lot about the EC, but we're glad to be living and raising our kids here.

Kash and I are vacationing in Mackinac Island this summer.

Detroit's problems with race relations and urban decay were no different than those faced by other major metropolitan areas in the heavily industrialized northern states during the same time period. There were riots, school intergration and white flight in other cities. Heavy industry left other cities because of wage pressures. Substantial urban blight occurred in other rust belt cities. So what happened in Detroit?

I see two main differences. One, an overreliance on one specific industry that has been declining for nearly 30 years which is now literally bankrupt. That writing was on the wall the first time Chrysler went begging for a government bailout in the early 80s. Two, piss poor leadership at the state and municipal level. Absolutely no imagination with respect to diversification of the local economy.

I have no connection to the city, but I hope Detroit makes it just because it is sad to see a city die. But its not a quick fix at all. Ironically, it will probably take a massive government bailout to make it happen.

Honigman laid off 11 Partners (non-percentage) and likes to claim that it has not laid off associates, but has been doing stealth layoffs for MONTHS now.

We're quite talented at bringing you last week's news.

Switzerland is small and neutral! We are more like Germany -- ambitious and misunderstood!

Elie,

I lived in Indy for ten years. Don't know much about Detroit but

Indianapolis is a different situation, although you are right to note that it has been severely affected by the auto decline. Indy has Eli Lilly, and the Lilly Foundation pours (by terms of its charter) a large amount of money into the City. More importantly, Indy was/is just blessed with a great family/neighborhood leadership -- the Binford family, the Hulman family, the Davoe family, the Simon family etc. They made a large scale commitment as a strategic matter to amateur and professional supports, poured a lot of money into local infrastructure -- bringing in the Colts, the Pacers, etc etc. The NCAA -- Tom Binford (who started the Indy 500 for decades as the steward) started many small business with personal funds. Among them the local alternative paper -- just to promote a diverse community -- just a great group of civic minded leaders stretching across decades. Little like Omaha, and maybe Chicago

I was very sorry to have to leave, and my daughter was devasted -- great place to raise kids, but there is very little economic opportunity.

And times are tough there.

lepetitzincdetroit.com is a cool bar...

"87 -- is your comment in support of racism? Detroit is in bad shape, the majority of its population is African American so people do not invest in the city "and for that reason, I don't feel that sorry for the city." Horrible thing to say."

I meant it in the exact opposite way. People who live in Detroit's suburbs, and I DO count that as Detroit, even though no one else does, always pretend that what's wrong with the area is that big pile of unemployed African Americans in the center.

The suburb crowd never admit that one half of the city has spent the last 50 years trying to avoid having to pay for the infrastructure of the other half. In fact, the suburbs only exist because one half tried to get away from the other half.

Now both halves are going down together, and I can't feel too bad about the suburban lawyers.

You're right though, I should have clarified that I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who had to go to inner city Detroit schools, drink inner city Detroit water, or try to find employment. Those people got a raw deal.

"Detroit is unique from most other major cities in that the wealth is concentrated in the suburbs rather than downtown."

This is the problem. It's a situation that was created by racism. And the lack of investment in the city center is a problem that just keeps getting bigger.

"Now there's a city which is pretty much all black and it's NOT heaven on earth. Well that just makes no sense."

People who say "Detroit's a mess because it's full of black people" are sort of right, but also really missing the point. Some people, racists, moved out of the center of the city, cut funding for education, and refused to support inner city businesses, because it was full of black people.

Detroit is an incredibly clear example of how an inability to resolve racial tensions can devastate a community for both sides, yet the racists continue to use it as an example of how black people are failing.

Yes, black people failed to make white people comfortable with integrated schools. Black people failed to convince white people to live in integrated neighborhoods. Black people scared white people away from working and shopping in the center of town.

It was all the black people's fault, and what did you expect the poor racists to do? Keep paying for inner city schools to provide an educated workforce? Keep paying for inner city infrastructure? Or maybe just all move out to the edge of town and try to pretend that "Gross Pointe" is a completely different city?

80 -- not to sound like a snob, but you do not know what your talking about. People from Greenwich know the nice suburbs of Michigan, and they know that they are -- shocking as it may be to you -- comparable, yet as of late half the price. Scarsdale and Weston are nice. Manchester-by-the-Sea, like all suburbs in Massachusetts, is full of people who do not take care of their property -- overgrown weeds, peeling paint, etc., and poor or nonexistent park systems.

113 -- you are also totally wrong. I grew up in Detroit in the 60s and it declined after the riots not before. People still went downtown, shopping at Hudsons, etc, throughout the 60s and then the civil unrest throughout the country had a particularly harsh explosion in Detroit. Mayor Young went in office and helped put down extremely bad actors (racist cops), but he did perpetuate an us versus them mentaility that jumps up every so often to hurt the city and its suburbs.
Detroit started coming back before this down turn. There still is construction and projects going on to improve the city, which did not happen at all during the 90s.

80 -- not to sound like a snob, but you do not know what your talking about. People from Greenwich know the nice suburbs of Michigan, and they know that they are -- shocking as it may be to you -- comparable, yet as of late half the price. Scarsdale and Weston are nice. Manchester-by-the-Sea, like all suburbs in Massachusetts, is full of people who do not take care of their property -- overgrown weeds, peeling paint, etc., and poor or nonexistent park systems.

113 -- you are also totally wrong. I grew up in Detroit in the 60s and it declined after the riots not before. People still went downtown, shopping at Hudsons, etc, throughout the 60s and then the civil unrest throughout the country had a particularly harsh explosion in Detroit. Mayor Young went in office and helped put down extremely bad actors (racist cops), but he did perpetuate an us versus them mentaility that jumps up every so often to hurt the city and its suburbs.
Detroit started coming back before this down turn. There still is construction and projects going on to improve the city, which did not happen at all during the 90s.

80 -- not to sound like a snob, but you do not know what your talking about. People from Greenwich know the nice suburbs of Michigan, and they know that they are -- shocking as it may be to you -- comparable, yet as of late half the price. Scarsdale and Weston are nice. Manchester-by-the-Sea, like all suburbs in Massachusetts, is full of people who do not take care of their property -- overgrown weeds, peeling paint, etc., and poor or nonexistent park systems.

113 -- you are also totally wrong. I grew up in Detroit in the 60s and it declined after the riots not before. People still went downtown, shopping at Hudsons, etc, throughout the 60s and then the civil unrest throughout the country had a particularly harsh explosion in Detroit. Mayor Young went in office and helped put down extremely bad actors (racist cops), but he did perpetuate an us versus them mentaility that jumps up every so often to hurt the city and its suburbs.
Detroit started coming back before this down turn. There still is construction and projects going on to improve the city, which did not happen at all during the 90s.

"People still went downtown, shopping at Hudsons, etc, throughout the 60s and then the civil unrest throughout the country had a particularly harsh explosion in Detroit. Mayor Young went in office and helped put down extremely bad actors (racist cops), but he did perpetuate an us versus them mentaility that jumps up every so often to hurt the city and its suburbs. "

I think you just proved my point, and I know it's not very Christian, but I think you, as a resident of the suburbs, deserve what you're getting. You were selfish. You didn't make it a place for everyone.

Now no one wants to be there. And no one ever will until there's more than the racists who killed the town parked around the edge of an abandoned center.

I had no idea I was this upset by what happened to Detroit.

Apparently, I am completely incensed by Detroit suburbanites.

Actually, I have always been incensed by racism, small town boosterism, selfishness, and people who insist that lower taxes will fix everything. That happens to describe almost every Detroit suburbanite I've met, so yeah, they all drive me up a wall.

"80 -- not to sound like a snob, but you do not know what your talking about. People from Greenwich know the nice suburbs of Michigan, and they know that they are -- shocking as it may be to you -- comparable, yet as of late half the price. Scarsdale and Weston are nice."

Detroit has some old money there, like Cleveland. They too think there's no place like home, and love to brag about things at home being "as good as anything you'd find out east." I've never heard anyone out east brag about Cleveland, or Detroit.

And according to the population stats, it looks like almost no one else has agreed with this high assessment, for a generation.

117 -- I did not prove your point -- I grew up in Detroit, lived elsewhere after college, and now I live in Detroit -- Indian Village, which is a nice neighborhood in Detroit. The "selfish" suburbanites are the ones that invested a ton of money into the cultural infrastructure in Detroit and is the reason Detroit still has the Detroit Institute of Arts, Detroit Symphony Orchestra, Detroit Opera House, Fox Theatre, etc. People sometimes have trouble investing in Detroit because there is a lot of red tape, but there are a ton of suburbanites that recognize that Detroit has to survive and prosper so that the rest of the state can, including the suburbs -- Karmanos, Penske, Illitch, and the list goes on and on.
Blah, blah, blah -- I can praise the city and the state that has hit bottom, forced to diversify, and will thrive again, but it will fall on deaf ears. Boston in the 60s lost its main industries, bottomed-out, and rebounded decades later, New York in the 70s, Pit in the 80s . . . nothing to do with race just diversification of industry.

113,
One isn't a racist simply because they moved out of the city proper. Some argue white flight caused the decline in schools, infrastructure etc. while others say that whites moved because schools were already declining and crime was rising. Shortly after the riots someone in my family was beaten up in front of her home and told that her people were no longer welcome in the neighborhood, certainly she shouldn't be labeled a racist because she subsequently moved out to the burbs. However, younger generations of people in the Detroit area are making significant progress in race relations.

Certainly Detroit needs to focus on its city center. Unlike cities like NYC, where all the trendiest restaurants, entertainment venues, bars, etc. are in the city center.... in Detroit, many of these places exist in the suburbs...although the city proper has much more than people realize in terms of fantastic dining and nightlife, cultural destinations, etc. ... it's just a little more underground to the average suburbanite who never comes to the city other than for a sporting event).

So while Detroit has suburbs that can compete with any other top 10 city in the country its city core lacks the vibrancy necessary to attract the young, educated workers who are the future of the area. Unfortunately, too many suburbanites seem to think that they can exist without a thriving central city, hopefully current events will make everyone in the region realize they need to invest in the central city if they want the region to prosper in the long term.

"Detroit has some old money there, like Cleveland. They too think there's no place like home, and love to brag about things at home being "as good as anything you'd find out east." I've never heard anyone out east brag about Cleveland, or Detroit." - 119

True, but some people out east think nothing exists between them and the west coast, their loss, everyone else's gain. As 120 said, Boston, NYC, Chicago, Pittsburgh all have experienced significant urban decay and rebounded, no reason Detroit can't too.

99 - slow suburban death, you're already numb but don't even know it. What am I talking about, you have a choice between McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's and White Castle, world class, global dining. You are a winner. Like i give a shit

I wonder how many of those laid off were driving Saabs or Bimmers.

#124---exactly. I remember reading a WSJ article a long time ago where people in Detroit were thinking whether they should give up their beemers to support the big 3, already declining at that time. Even the pricks in Detroit don't drive the trash that they build.

In terms of people saying that Detroit suburbs are soooo great. C'mon, you can buy a house in TX for probably half of that in MI and it'll be newer and in a warmer climate, with lower taxes. You can find good-looking, cheap and vacuous suburbs everywhere. Not just Detroit, but STL, KC, Cleveland, etc, etc. The problem is Detroit is a total and complete dump and it'll probably never change.

Oh, good luck with Culpepper!

"Oh, good luck with Culpepper! "

Shouldn't that be Stafford? Culpepper was on the roster last year, I surmise Lions fans know his abilities.

One of the reasons the Detroit suburbs are better than comparably large cities is because unlike most other cities, wealth is concentrated in the 'burbs, not the central city. While other suburbs relied on the central city to provide entertainment and dining options the Detroit suburbs developed these amenities themselves. Furthermore, suburbs like Grosse Pointe or Royal Oak have beautiful old homes and are built in pedestrian friendly fashions with nice little downtowns, they aren't the suburban sprawl subdivision type suburbs you find in many other cities.

0-32 is coming.........

Shitty football team
TTThird-ttier law firms are dying
Welcome to DetroiTTT

--- TMQ

Elie is long on Indianapolis municipal bonds.

You got cut off. It's supposed to read:

"The firms are blaming the layoffs on the economy of 1982."

i want to learn writing. You can suggest me!

Cleveland and Baltimore should be happy there's a Detroit, otherwise they would be America's urban whipping boy.

I love Deeeeeeeeetroit

I love Deeeeeeeeetroit -- the fireworks were great last night.

112- Here are some generalizations for you- I am going to leave racism out of this- I am not denying the existence of racism, I just think it is really confusing the issues here so I am leaving it out for one comment, but hopefully the next 100 posters or so will be able to engage in a cliche-ridden oft-recycled debate about racism.

Anyway, in the US, most wealth is now in the suburbs. I don't know where you get that about bit about most money being downtown, but I have lived in a lot of major US cities, and there isn't much money downtown. This is because nowadays, most people, white and black, move to the suburbs when they have money- there is a natural sprawl. Most people, when they have money, want space, privacy, and peace and quiet, and they have a better chance of finding that in the suburbs. And most people with money, are white. And as a result, wealth gets drained from the cities, and the urban population becomes comprised of an increasing percentage of angry and hopeless "have nots."

I wasn't the one who said that most money is downtown, and you're missing my point.

Detroit suburbanites created a shithole of a city through shortsighted planning, much of which many people I know have largely justified with racist lines of thinking. It's always, "We don't have good schools because of the riots." Or, "No one goes downtown because of the riots." That's b.s.

Thanks to lack of investment, you now have a city with a shrinking economy and a fleeing population. The people living at the edges are largely there because they thought they could prosper while the city and the state's economy went down - they are the low-level executives, the salespeople, and the lawyers.

Unfortunately, they were only right in the short term. They were like the people who clung to the first class cabins on the Titanic. They went down after the people in steerage, but that wasn't really a big win in the end.

They actively resisted investing in anything. It was a poor decision. I don't feel sorry for the suburban lawyers. And I know for a fact that white flight started before the riots.

Another way to look at it - Detroit suburbanites deny their own complicity in this mess, even though they had more control than anyone else. If you don't want to live in a diverse neighborhood, ok. If you don't want to pay for schools outside your neighborhood, ok.

If you decide it's a good idea to work for a car company you know is only propped up by government subsidies, while pretending it's unfair to spend tax dollars on inner city services, yeah, ok.

Just don't pretend that it's the fault of the people you deliberately exploited. Your suburban paradise didn't happen in a vacuum. It was a by-product of a once-vibrant economy. If you benefit from that economy without reinvesting, odds are it won't be there forever. When that happens, you can't then blame the unions and the rioters.

In the last 40 years, the unions gave up salary and benefits and members. The rioters gave up services and participation in prosperity. The suburbanites only took without giving back.

The Muslim Quarterback

The coach had put together the perfect team for the Detroit Lions. The only thing that was missing was a good quarterback.

He had scouted all the colleges and even the Canadian and European Leagues, but he couldn't find a ringer who could ensure a Super Bowl win.

Then one night while watching CNN he saw a war-zone scene in Afghanistan. In one corner of the background, he spotted a young Afghan Muslim soldier with a truly incredible arm. He threw a hand-grenade straight into a 15th story window 100 yards away.

KABOOM!

He threw another hand-grenade 75 yards away, right into a chimney.

KA-BLOOEY!

Then he threw another at a passing car going 90 mph.

BULLS-EYE!

"I've got to get this guy!" Coach said to himself. "He has the perfect arm!"

So, he brings him to the States and teaches him the great game of football. And the Lions go on to win the Super Bowl. The young Afghan is hailed as the greatest hero of football, and when the coach asks him what he wants, all the young man wants is to call his mother.

"Mom," he says into the phone, "I just won the Super Bowl!"

I don't want to talk to you, the old Muslim woman says.

"You deserted us. You are not my son!"

"I don't think you understand,

Mother," the young man pleads. "I've just won the greatest sporting event in the world. I'm here among thousands of my adoring fans."

"No! Let me tell you!" his mother retorts. "At this very moment, there are gunshots all around us. The neighborhood is a pile of rubble. Your two brothers were beaten within an inch of their lives last week, and I have to keep your sister in the house so she doesn't get raped!"

The old lady pauses, and then tearfully says, "I will never forgive you for making us move to Detroit!"

137,
That's ridiculous to say suburbanites don't support the city. Who do you think keeps the Detroit Institute of Arts/Detroit Historical Musuem/ etc. alive? It's all suburban wealth and mostly suburban patrons. Furthermore, all non-residents who work in the city pay a 1.5% tax (without representation)... this tax probably more than pays for all the services that the city doesn't provide to them.

You gave the city a historical museum? AND the 12-25 suburbanites who still work downtown (doing what, exactly, there's nothing there?) are actually paying $12 out of every $400 paycheck for trash pickup, water, road maintenance, police protection, and schools.

Your generosity is completely overwhelming. How ARE there any poorly educated unemployed people living with a bare minimum of city services in a wasteland of empty buildings? Clearly must have been their own fault. They should have just moved, right?

140,
There are 90,000 people who work in downtown Detroit everday, hardly 12-25. Their taxes, and the business taxes (businesses largely run by suburbanites) pay far more into the city than they get back. And yes, in a city that has a 50% literacy rate it's not surprising that city residents aren't exactly supporting Detroit's finer cultural institutions.

Detroit should be plowed under, the entire city, Nothing worth saving, and no reason to pour more money down a rathole.

Dykema had roughly a half-sized Summer class this year (~14 Summers firm wide down from 25+ in a 'normal' year) and only gave offers to roughly half of the 14. Obviously the economy was cited as the reason for the low offer rate. It was a great firm to Summer at, but beware the Detroit economy.