Open Thread: Is Anybody Coming to OCI This Year?
It’s a little bit early to be looking ahead to on-campus interviewing — unless, of course, you are a rising 2L who is about to get reamed. Law firms are already making plans for how they will approach the class of 2011.
The early indications are not pretty. Mayer Brown sent out a message that is sure to disappoint future IP lawyers. The firm is pulling out of the the Loyola (Chicago) Patent Law Interview Program. The program’s directors let students know the bad news, on Friday:
Dear students,You are receiving this email because you had bid on Mayer Brown at this year’s Patent Law Interview Program. Unfortunately, the firm has had a change in plans and will not be attending the interview program on the 30th and 31st. The resumes of all students who bid on Mayer Brown have been forwarded to the firm, and if the firm identifies any students who meet their hiring needs, they will get in touch with you directly.
Best,
The Loyola Patent Law Interview Program Staff
One tipster explains the significance of this decision:
[T]his is the country’s main IP recruitment fair. Every major firm with an IP practice recruits here.
Do you think this problem is just going to affect lower-ranked law schools? Check out one student’s Columbia Early Interview Program stats, after the jump.
One tipster has been digging into Columbia Law School’s Early Interview Program schedule. The tipster reports some disturbing trends:
Columbia came out with their EIP schedule for August and there are a lot fewer interviews/schedules than last year. About 22% less. Not too many 3L interviews either. I’m sure it is the same at other law schools.
Are these reports a harbinger of things to come? Our tipster continues:
Rising 2Ls should be real scared. They don’t have their foot in the door and they are going to find it slammed shut.
Should the class of 2011 be afraid? Should they be very afraid?
At least firms that have no intention of hiring 2Ls aren’t bothering to go through the motions of interviewing them. It’s always good to know where you stand.
(91) Comments
Comments
First First First!!!
FIRST TO GET NO OFFERED!
eeeeek! yum yum yum
rising 2L here.
anyone have advice as to how to look at firms with regard to what the hell i should do for OCI? i'm thinking litigation, if that helps. NYC? avoid NYC like the plague?
would clerking post-grad possibly spare me from the downturn layoffs/deferral/never-hired cycle or just ensure i don't actually have a job when i get back?
191 employers at MLaw. over 700 last year? nice.
What's the deal with "Best" ending emails? Is this really their best? The author can do better.
- Bestest
not only will fewer firms be frequenting OCIs, the firms that do are likely doing so only to maintain connections with the schools
Law firms are avoiding Fordham like swine flu this year for some reason. Maybe the firms are flocking to Cardozo (the new fordham??)?
Is that really true about Michigan? Seems wrong.
BU will get pawned this year. lol
When it comes to patent pros. and lit, IP is a lagging indicator. R&D budgets cut during the downturn are just now beginning to show up in the pipeline. No sense trying to protect your product or sue your competitor when neither is selling.
-USPTO slave
4 - if you are interested in litigation, a clerkship cannot hurt, and will give you a good place to hide out after graduation. However, you still need to try for a summer position. If firms aren't hiring, try for a some sort of internship with a judge. It may turn into a clerkship post-graduation.
STILL nothing re the NYT article from this weekend?
9 - yes. "191 employers" on Symplicity right now.
what if you could invent a time machine and keep Dave Gordon's mom from meeting Dave Gordon's dad? now that'd be something.
btw, why'd Dave Gordon go to syracuse law school? did he bomb the lsat or something?
12 - i know i am going to take an SA position. unless the ITE is far worse than anyone thinks, i don't think i will have too much trouble (about top third at MVP).
i know it is a good thing to have at least in good years - but i am worried that having that offer open for a year will just turn into a "thanks but no thanks" scenario. i suppose that's really a question to ask in the fall of 2010, observing how the economy is then, yeah?
8 - Cardozo Student.
how were tehre over 700 employers at michigan last year??
11 - There may be a hint of truth to your opinion, but just a hint. I'm a patent litigation associate, and am very lucky to be so in this environment. Companies in a downturn are more likely to look to generate revenue without additional investment. That means that they will protect current assets (patents) rather than seek to create new ones. That's why most of my fellow patent lit associates have been saved from the ax, and many non-patent friends haven't been as lucky.
11 - There may be a hint of truth to your opinion, but just a hint. I'm a patent litigation associate, and am very lucky to be so in this environment. Companies in a downturn are more likely to look to generate revenue without additional investment. That means that they will protect current assets (patents) rather than seek to create new ones. That's why most of my fellow patent lit associates have been saved from the ax, and many non-patent friends haven't been as lucky.
13 - link?
First, the rising 2Ls are the class of 2011, not 2010. Second, firms are hiring for their needs 3 years in the future. OCI will be down some, especially at lower-ranked schools, but it won't be a debacle.
SkaddenDC close door meetings all morning. Everyone is walking around like someone just died.
Did you mean class of 2011?
SkaddenDC is finally imploding. You heard it first here.
It's 2011. 2010 is summer associates right now.
2010 should be very afraid, but for different reasons than 2011. 50% offer rate + no 3L OCI + saturated clerkship market = GREAT SUCCESS.
Hey ATL, no comment on this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/nyregion/07law.html
Got more important things to discuss, i'm sure.
Class of 2011 you retard
25 - nice try. You've been trolling for about 6 months now.
Just to rest some people's worried minds, Crane Poole & Schmidt will be holding OCI's at all Top 20 schools this year, with the natural exception of UPenn State. I believe most AmLaw 100 and AmLaw 200 are not conducting OCI's at UPenn State...terrible terrible lawyers come out of that school!
Official Dave Gordon Latham NY resignation post.
When you have to cut half your associates Dave, you know it means you're a horrible manager.
Resign.
Meat Chicken has as many employers at OCI as the other Big 10 state schools? Ugly.
I am at a top 20, non t14 school, top 5%, on journal. do i have any chance of getting a big law job???? i am also hot beyond law school.
4, 12 here. I think even in bad years, a clerkship is a good place to be (and yes, I'm currently clerking and happy to be employed, but used to be at biglaw and left for this gig). While it seems like the market may be reaching bottom, I think it's going to take some time for law firms to rework how they operate. Fee structures, compensation, and the hiring process are all going to come out of this changed.
If you do have an offer and a clerkship, things can go down a couple of ways. Some judges are perfectly fine with you accepting your position, some aren't - it all depends on your judge, and on if your firm could appear before you judge (might I suggest spending a year somewhere totally random, with a low cost of living).
If the firm cannot/will not take you back post clerkship, move on. A clerkship will always be helpful to you. It used to be that firms looked at the prestige a clerkship brought. Now, it makes you an attractive candidate because you have some real world skills that the firm did not spend money on.
I think by the time you are looking for a firm job, things will have stabilized, and you will be in a good position to find a position. And with a clerkship, you will have something that sets you apart from the hundreds of your fellow young attorneys who spent a year doing who knows what.
Not that I am overly concerned with defending Elie, but I think he meant SA class of 2010.
-Not Elie
how would he be talking about the class of 2010? they aren't all looking ahead to OCI. he obviously meant 2011 (read: my frightened class)
Who wants to have a bukake party with Mystal's moobs?
EVERYBODY is frightened; it's what happens in a crap economy like this. Just because you're 2Ls doesn't mean you deserve serious consideration. The mid-level associates that are being laid off are the meat and potatoes of the legal industry and in doing so the partners are screwing themselves in the long run. Who cares about law students? They're fungible and know nothing about the actual practice of law.
ATL, FYI currently your Mayer Brown link in the article is to a NYTimes article about Justice Breyer selling off stock holdings to minimize recusals and not to anything from Mayer Brown. I was expecting a link to their memo regarding them pulling out of the Chicago IP interview fair. BTW - I did it when I was in law school, outside of hanging out at Navy Pier and hitting the Polish Delis it was a complete waste of time. Glad I had all my interviews in on one day so I could enjoy myself!!
38 - everything you say may be true. however, that wasn't my point. my point was that elie is obviously talking about the class of 2010 or 2011, and the evidence points to 2011. in no way is a thread called "Is anybody coming to OCI" about mid-level associates.
19 - You may want to check out the expected budget changes by practice area throughout Fortune 1k companies:
http://www.patentlyo.com/.a/6a00d8341c588553ef01157074d6e2970b-pi
Your reasoning is valid, but numbers don't lie.
-USPTO slave
The class of 2011 was truly born for the yoke.
40
And my point is that there shouldn't be a thread dedicated to frightened law students wetting themselves.
The entire industry is going through a seismic change.
Man up and stop complaining.
I am a fifth year associate and I have bills to pay and it is damned slow here. You, on the other hand, can easily find a job that fits your needs.
Until then, STFU.
38
lol, every fucking thread on here is dedicated to you mid-levels that are getting squeezed out, i think we can have one.
The ship be sinking...
I am not scared.
YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS
Skadden Secure
Moobs.
that is all.
To be fair, Mayer Brown isn't exactly known for its IP group. However, patent litigation is definitely not safe, as has been seen by the dismal happenings at some IP firms.
Dave Gordon should resign, or commit suicide.
-Senator Charles Grassley
See gunners, your efforts and backstabbing has come to naught. Go have a beer.
What about us laid off first years with 6 fig student loan debt who are out of jobs simply because Dave Gordon doesn't know how to run a law firm?
Hey Elie--once you recover from your weekend carb overload, why don't you post a link to the article mentioning this blog in the fucking New York Times?
Damn, this place is a shithole.
Fat pig hillbilly judge loses at Supreme Court.
That 700 figure for Michigan OCI includes multiple offices from the same firm, if you are not counting Jones Day, for example, as 12 employers then you get the actual number of employers hiring on campus. Just another piece of grossly inflated law school data.
Burgundy (48) is right - MB has 65 IP attorneys, including only 42 associates. While it's definitely not a good sign, it's not shit-the-bed bad news.
14, I bet you're confused. 700 probably double-counted (rightfully or wrongfully) for each location. So Skadden DC and Skadden NY would count twice to reach 700 total. But Skadden would only count once towards your new number.
My school's OCI firms # is down between 8-10%.
How long do you think until Partner Emeritus weighs in with his sound advice? Or how long until he discusses the quality of Michigan's education? What do you think his real job is since he has time to post three or four times a day?
How long do you think it will be before recent graduates and current law students start committing suicide due to this market coupled with astronomical student debt? I can say that I have been in pretty fair mental health for the balance of my life save the last six months that I have spent in a deep, dark depression worried about whether I will ever have a career or be able to start a family.
See - studying for the bar is not easy when you are absolutely sure you will never get out of the bottom of this nightmare market.
- Recent second tier grad, law review, 2 CALI's, 114k debt and back to living with my parents come this fall (and no I am not a poor interviewer - I just was born at the wrong time and should have wanted to become a welder when I grew up instead).
58 - should have done your research on TTT schools before you pissed away 114k.
QUINN REMAINS vigilant
58: My sympathies. Your life will suck for a while. Try to keep your head up.
I will not be attending OCI this year because I am too busy pounding my secretary in the ass.
59 - When I signed up for a school - not in the third tier but now in US News and World Report's "1st tier," the "research" said 78k average first year salary in the private market and 98% employment 9 months after graduation.
Oh, but I guess I should have known that these stats were lies like you would have (b/c you are perfect like everyone else who posts here). I was raised, like the great majority of this country to think law was perhaps the best bet at prosperity (it still might be one of the best).
RESEARCH - what research? I told you the information that was available. I believe when I applied to law school I did not even have high speed internet access at my house. Beyond that - I did not ever know what a blog was (I was too busy trying to get laid- unlike losers like you who will actually be 40 year old virgins).
SO -- I hope you kill yourself - If I ever start using the term TTT - I would hope someone would slap some sense into me. Enjoy the rest of your day being a bad person.
60
63 - you should have done your research. research is not reading law school recruiting brochures.
your bitterness is hilarious. you hope i kill myself and think i'm going to be a 40 year old virgin because you were too irresponsible "trying to get laid" (maybe trying is the operative word there) to succeed in college and on the LSAT.
you are the one that made shitty decisions, not me.
love and cupcakes,
59
63+64 = weird
Kicking a guy when he's down isn't very classy. But whatever floats your boat.
Thanks for scaring the crap out of me.
Skadden has one form you fill out for multiple offices. The NALP has a list of who was at your law school last year.
Most firms have an entry for every office, which inflates the number of schools that go to OCI
63, the random sex life insult confirms that you were not mature enough to do the math on how much you would have to pay back when you borrow that much money.
Social life insults tend to be the province of those who either do not try in undergrad (and thus ensure they cannot go to a T1) or those who party in law school like they are in undergrad, and then wonder why their grades are worse than the "nerds" who they are curved against.
I GET ASS is really not the best retort, especially when the outcome has left you financially ruined.
63, the random sex life insult confirms that you were not mature enough to do the math on how much you would have to pay back when you borrow that much money.
Social life insults tend to be the province of those who either do not try in undergrad (and thus ensure they cannot go to a T1) or those who party in law school like they are in undergrad, and then wonder why their grades are worse than the "nerds" who they are curved against.
I GET ASS is really not the best retort, especially when the outcome has left you financially ruined.
The economy is getting better. Law Firms have cut to bone. It is only amount of time before law firms start hiring again. Stop worrying. Start Building Skills. Go out and Network.
64:
you shouldn't sign your lawopen posts the same way you sign your law-school-listserv emails.
dumbass.
60:
My T10 is at 240 employers, and Quinn is not one of them.
QUINN IS FAILING
72: those two are the same thing.
but assuming i knew what you meant, why not? i'd say the same thing in person. most lower ranked schools ARE a scam. have a cupcake.
The Columbia tipster needs to STFU. There are still tons more potential offers than students, a ton of firms coming, and the possibility of getting non-scheduled interviews via resume drop-off. The 3L schedule is noticably smaller than last year's but it wasn't large to begin with.
No need to start a panic, especially when the Columbia (and Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, Yale, etc.) folks will still be getting the goods jobs.
and sixigan. you forgot sixigan. :)
Aside from 63's poor retort, he does have a point. If public corporations are not allowed to publish misleading materials to their investors, why should it be any different for law schools?
Yes, I know, several of you will inform us why it is a horrible decision to attend a "ttt" or something along those lines. The aforementioned criticism is relatively accurate, especially depending on early career expectations.
However, does anyone like where I am going with this?
63 here,
If you go back and read the comments, all of you that are criticizing me really have no point. I did not do poorly in undergrad or in law school. I graduated summa in undergrad (wow - how horrible, I must have "partied too much.") In law school, I wrote on to the law review, earned two CALI'S, and was in the top 20% of my class
As far as "doing research before attending a TTT" … That comment is probably the most retarded thing I have ever read. I did the research that was available to me. Also, I go to the best school of 2 in the city I have lived in my whole life and wanted to continue living in. It is not a "TTT" it is currently in the "top tier" of US News and World report.
I would love to know what research I could have done to save myself 64; you pathetic slimy creature. I did not sit on the internet all day reading blogs before I came to school. I read U.S New, had no reason to assume I was being lied to, and talked to lawyers that I caddied for in my community.
64 and 69- your arguments fail. The random sex life insults are meant to hurt you, and I know they hit home. You will probably never find true love because people like you are completely bereft of any human feeling. You are bad people who deserve nothing but pain in your life. I actually hope you learn your lesson one day and save yourselves from your lonely, pathetic existences. Finally, I am glad in did not attend at TOP TIER jerk each other fest and was able to meet my wife and several potentially lifelong friends during law school and was not forced to spend three years with you creatures.
58 and 63
Dallas-based firm Thompson & Knight seems to have stopped recruiting at Harvard, or at least not during the EIP when the other major Texas firms are coming.
This is a suprising turn of events, as T&K used to be one of the top destinations in Texas for Ivy-league law school grads. Haynes and Boone in Dallas seems to have picked up where they left off and has begun actively recruiting at HLS.
Why does love cupcake insist its ONLY foolish to drop 100+K on 50+rank school?
Can someone please remind me which schools all these Biglaw junior attorneys (Latham, etc) that have been laid off went to? Oh wait, that's right....it was T14 schools.
So what then is the difference?!
It must be scary for the elitists to realize they aren't safe from being laid off and having no way to pay off their loans.
Well said (78 here)
Your decision to attend the so-call TTT was done so for the rights reasons, no criticism from me.
Most of these former xoxo junkies blindly criticize every attorney who did/does not attend a T14 institution in order to make themselves feel slightly better because they lack self-confidence and/or self-esteem.
In my opinion, many of these people are the bitter HLS students who were rejected from Yale. Or the bitter GULC students who were rejected from Columbia but still hang on dearly to the coveted "T-14" status.
They continue down the same miserable path, angry they got rejected from Cravath & Skadden. Bitter they only got a district clerkship rather than a state supreme court or federal appellate.
Before they know it, they are angry because some "TTT" attorney with social skills has just been named partner before they have.
There is some good commentary on here at times but it is starting to be overrun with worthless banter.
Mayer Brown...getting ready for 3rd round of layoffs. And their new DC building? MB "gave back" 2 floors to their future landlord, Vornado. Vornado not happy at all about this turn of events.
Mayer Brown...getting ready for 3rd round of layoffs. And their new DC building? MB "gave back" 2 floors to their future landlord, Vornado. Vornado not happy at all about this turn of events.
Mayer Brown...getting ready for 3rd round of layoffs. And their new DC building? MB "gave back" 2 floors to their future landlord, Vornado. Vornado not happy at all about this turn of events.
79 - for not wanting to be around us miserable creatures, you sure come back for more abuse. although you might be flame for calling top 100 "top tier"
81 - it's more foolish. i'd have a hard time recommending sticker price at almost any school right now. but having a degree from HYSCCNSixigan etc. will still carry weight and connections after the end of the Great Recession - it's still better for govt, etc.
-love cupcake/slimy creature/etc.
Dear 58, these are tough times but suicide is not called for. If your main stress is debt pushing you to the brink think creatively. As an absolute last case option, leave this country and emigrate to Canada/Australia/England and kiss your loans goodbye. There is no extraterritoriality and you still have your degree. No worries. Alternatively, do like the 6 million illegal immigrants, get a new identity and start over sans degree.
39--You must be retarded. As long as you can tie your shoes and hold a conversation, the interview to callback ratio is about 80% @ the Loyola patent fair, and as long as you are ~ top thirdish you should have at least 20 interviews.
83-85: How did they "give back" two floors? I thought their contract was for the entire building. I'm sure they wish they could give back the entire thing.
Rising 2l at TTT here. Top 1% of the class and on our crappy law review. Should I transfer to another NY law school?
uh, yes.