Salary Cut Watch: Dorsey & Whitney Cuts Salaries by 10%
Yesterday, we reported that Dorsey & Whitney laid off 55 staffers. Despite the staff layoffs, we mentioned that Dorsey had generally avoided the worst aspects of the economic recession.
Well, “not so fast my friends.” After our report went up, associates at Dorsey & Whitney flooded the ATL inbox with news of a ten percent associate salary cut. The first tip overestimated my mind reading ability:
You probably already have this by now, but Dorsey implemented a 10% across the board pay cut for associates.
Another tipster reported that full time associates aren’t the only people that will be taking a pay cut:
… also cut all associate salaries by 10% and are asking contract lawyers to agree to a similar cut.
We understand that associates learned of the salary cuts via an internal video available on Dorsey’s intranet. We don’t have the video, but we do have some additional details after the jump.
The video presentation was made by Dorsey & Whitney’s managing partner, Marianne Short. Various people have described the video as “confusing.”
Part of the confusion might be that the Dorsey partnership was caught off guard by the layoffs and the salary cuts. Tipsters report that many partners found out about the cuts on the day they were announced to the firm at large.
Not surprisingly, the decision was driven by firm economics. Our sources report:
Management got May’s figures last night, and apparently, the situation was quite dire. The prognostications for the future months also did not hold to budget and they decided something relatively drastic needed to be done.
You never like to see decisions made at the point of an economic gun. Because when people make snap decisions under enormous pressure, reasoning can get muddled. According to a tipster:
The associate salary cuts were made across the board because management deemed it too difficult to do it on a case by case basis. This was the decision notwithstanding that fact that many many associates are on pace to meet and greatly exceed the hours requirement and that the 10% pay cut is on top of the already large pay cut due to the salary freeze.
Faced with these unstable circumstances, Dorsey & Whitney associates are looking for someone to blame — or at least someone to put into a wood chipper:
Walter Mondale has long remained on the payroll at Dorsey and Whitney. See if he still is there.
Walter Mondale, 42nd Vice-President of the United States, is still listed on the firm website, but we don’t know if the firm actually pays him anything. But maybe Mondale can come up with a new firm motto? To paraphrase his acceptance speech at the 1984 Democratic convention:
“Peer firms will cut your salary, and so will Dorsey & Whitney.
Earlier: Staff Layoff Watch: Dorsey & Whitney Shows 55 Employees the Door
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One is the loneliest number.
2 can be as lonely as number one.
2 can be as lonely as number one.
So close ....
Fifth! Zing!
I like fish sticks... so what?
Keep your head up, 4. If you work hard, keep at it, take your vitamins, and say your prayers, someday you may be first.
-1
#5 - Then you are a gay fish.
Huzzah!
I have a reservation for 2 at Dorsia.
all this firsting doesn't answer the question of whether elie passed the NY bar.
First to say Dorsey & WhiTTTney.
On the other hand, panicked salary cuts by firmwide interweb video is just good use of technology. Way to stay classy, Dorsey!
This is stupid, short-term thinking. Minneapolis firms already pay less than firms in comparable cities (120K). How the hell do they expect to attract top talent at 108K? Sure they can raise salaries again when the economy improves but if I was a law student I wouldn't trust them.
In hard economic times, there's is nothing at all wrong with a firm having across the board pay cuts for associates and staff. After all, the partners get to eat a big one too, and don't think they don't. Associates should be happy they have a job, and they should just suck it up like the rest of the world.
Watch for one of two things to happen. Either other top Minneapolis firms also cut their salaries. Or, Dorsey permanently loses its status as top Minneapolis law firm. Dorsey’s management should be fired.
Elie wore a tube top to the bar exam so everyone would stare at his heaving moobs.
Its beyond bad at Dorsey. As one commenter put it in the other post on Dorsey, Dorsey just signed up to drop one, if not two, peer groups. There is no way its peers, as a whole, will follow suit. 10% is an EXTREME decrease and the firm should be ashamed of itself. As the commenter put it, a drop of $5K is bad, 5% is terrible, $10K is beyond bad but 10% is like tossing you into a whole new income classification. For a firm that pays its associates minimal to begin with compared to the outrageously high salaries in other parts of the country, this is embarassing.
Dorsey might now be described as taking the most extreme cuts to date of any firm, with salary freezes (and thus the loss of roughly $10K per associate), slash of bonuses at year-end, a subsequent 10% cut (equal to between $14K and $19K), significant staff layoffs at a percentage larger than most firms, and an enourmous cut in employer 401(K) contributions to boot. Is Dorsey going under? Someone who knows speak up! I'm out of the Minneapolis office and want to know how grim our future is in this crap hole city.
ugh, heaving moobs
Minneapolis is not a craphole of a city; there are many many large boned Scandinavian lovelies to be found.
I feel sorry for the new Dorsey associates starting this fall. Can you imagine? You thought you were going to the best firm in town. Then, sorry kid your start date has been pushed back, oh, and we’re freezing salaries, oh, and we’re cutting salaries. Watch for layoffs now.
The firm was smart enough to make the announcement via webcast on the internal intranet, but dumb enough to not realize that the outrageous cut just compounded its problems. If the partners felt like they weren't making enough as of yesterday before the cuts, wait til they see their pocketbooks in the coming months. This will kill the firm. Say what you will about being lucky to have a job, but bottom line is that to make money, you need qualified people. Why would any qualified person sign up to make the least amount of money in its locale. Of course they won't.
AND PLEASE CONFIRM THAT DORSEY WILL BE DROPPING ITS BILLABLE REQUIREMENT NOW. Associates are simply not going to strive for big numbers when they could go next door and bill at that rate making more money. There must be a corresponding drop in the billable requirement.
Dorsey isn't going to lose top status in Minneapolis. Faegre, it's only sort-of competition, canned nearly 30 attorneys a few months ago.
If you're an aspiring big law who wants to work in Minneapolis, where would you go? The shop that cans you or the one that sticks together?
Additionally, Dorsey is not the first Minneapolis firm to cut salaries -- it's just that the mid-size firms don't get media play.
PS -- the sea urchin ceviche at Dorsia is phenomenal.
In the next internal video Marianne Short calls on junior associates to commit ritual suicide. It’s the only honorable way for the firm to survive.
Swine Flu at UVA.
Can the Dorsai come out to play?
~Bleys Ahrens
In the next internal video Marianne Short calls on junior associates to commit ritual suicide. It’s the only honorable way for the firm to survive.
This is why the best Minneapolis lawyers, like Gordon Bombay, choose to work at Ducksworth.
What do you expect from a law firm that cannot compete with the big boys from Chicago?
Elie, your moobs look wonderful today. Is that glitter I see?
To all the Dorseyites who made fun of Faegre for firing 29 attorneys I would like to ask how the karma tastes. Oh, and to the guy that thinks Dorsey is head and shoulders above everyone in town I have a gift for you:
http://faegre.com/shownews.aspx?Show=9834 (Faegre & Benson named Top Corporate Law Firm in Minneapolis)
Will be interesting to see if other real firms in MPLS follow suit and lower salaries (Faegre, Fred, Opp, etc.).
20. I for one would rather be at the firm that rewards top talent and balances its budget by getting rid of under-performers. The "let's-all-stick-together" mantra is only attractive to mediocre attorneys. Faegre to #1 in MSP!
Hi. I’m Troy McClure. You may remember me from internal salary cut announcement videos like “So what DID happen to your Countrywide sales commission?” or “Our firm shake-up brings all the boys to the yard” . . .
Quack quack quack, Mr. Ducksworth! You may have paid for this jersey, but you didn't earn it.
Mmmm. Big boned blondes and red heads are plenty in Minneapolis. Eh.
Who cares about Minnesota.
Dallas Secure
Where's Minneapolis? Never heard of it.
28 --
http://faegre.com/shownews.aspx?Show=9834 (Faegre & Benson named Top Corporate Law Firm in Minneapolis)
Yes, the response rate of 10.5% to that survey is highly convincing. Why not just come up with another half-ass survey indicating Faegre cured cancer?
Personally, I'd take the paycut over getting canned (or having my neighbor canned). But if alleged "happy firm" Faegre thinks putting lawyers on the street is more preferable and better for morale, more power to 'em.
Funny how this works: when Dorsey canned less than 10 attorneys after the dot.com bust, everyone said they were a-holes. Now they save jobs and they get the same complaint.
You only get that kind of grief when you're on top...something Faegre will never have to worry about.
Dorsey is definitely not the top firm in mpls. But it will be innteresting to see what Faegre does, or the other mpls firms.
Dorsey is definitely not the top firm in mpls. But it will be interesting to see what Faegre does, or the other mpls firms.
This is shameful. Dorsey partners make more on average than their colleagues at Faegre or Opp or any other non-specialty shop in Minneapolis. They should have swallowed these losses before they started to eat their young. Dorsey will never be the same after this.
Faegre already fired a bunch of associates. Not sure they could take another hit to their reputation.
Dallas Stars to 190k!
39 --
See what happens when the cut associates salaries in short order.
Locke Lord Houston is better than Dorsey&Whitney.
SMU SMU
Hey 30, that was funny...
Mystal's heaving moobs are making me so horny!
What I want to know is when poor underpaid attorneys get their cut of the stimulus money. Dorsey clearly needs a GM-style bailout. Come on Vice-President Mondale. Why does Dorsey keep you around if not pull political strings?
What does Dorsey pay in NYC? Weren't they already below market?
What about Dorsey's reputation in Seattle? It is the only sizable firm to do this, and at such an extreme level. Why would an associate want to go to Dorsey to bill 1850 and make $15K less than Perkins? They won't. Third tier toilet. You just shot yourselves in the foot. This is pitiful!
LOWER BILLABLES!!! You can't pay those associates less than the other firms in town and expect them to bill the same. LOWER BILLABLES! It's the only answer to recoup some of your lost reputation.
Doesn't Dorsey hire crappy fourth tier law students from william mitchell. Who cares about a TTT?
They pay 160K in NYC (or did before this)
Better than being fired.
If I went to W&L and SMU Law, will Doresy hire me?
Given that I have $250,000 in debt and no job, I would much rather donate my water to the Fremen instead of working as an associate in a third-rate law firm like Dorsey & Whitney where they overwork you and underpay you.
Blonde Valkyries are simply not enough compensation for working in a hellhole like Minneapolis.
Well, what do you expect when you have a woman managing partner? This never would have happened if the Marianne Short had testicles.
DW has lost all leverage with its associates. DW better either retract its shameful decision or take remedial action. OF COURSE DW should have instead fired the underperformers (i.e., the people causing the problem). Rather than piss off the people you don't care about, you made a conscious decision to piss off the people who are making you the money. Have you no business sense, DW? Wow. Astonished (and yes, I work at Perkins, but there is no way this will set a trend in Seattle - no other firm is stupid enough).
Dorsey is going to get raked over the coals over this one. Prepare for bankruptcy
What is our peer group now anyway? Davis Wright? I am too embarrassed to go around my lawyer friends making this pathetic salary. I am so ashamed of myself.
Why is everyone staring at me?
1st year salaries in Minneapolis rose 30% between 2002 and 2007, with no increase in hours requirements. Average associate hours through April of 2009 were 77% of required. It's hard to argue with a 10% pay cut.
Dorsey is not going to get raked over the coals. Where are the associates going to go? To all those other firms that are hiring right now? Please. The associates will take it and like it.
And within a month, every other firm in Minneapolis will have cut salaries.
ADP reports another 532,000 jobs were lost in May, indicating that while the rate of descent has slowed, the economy has not yet hit bottom. Therefore, these cost cutting measures by Dorsey are prudent, given that the demand for legal services will not increase until the second quarter of 2010.
1st year salaries in Minneapolis rose 30% between 2002 and 2007, with no increase in hours requirements. Average associate hours through April of 2009 were 77% of required. It's hard to argue with a 10% pay cut.
It is about time D&W. How long did anybody think they could keep up the facade of a successful law biz?
The tide has gone out and exposed all firms spread too thin. Associates are like the shit left behind on the beach.
53, you're a sexist idiot. And for the record Marianne Short has bigger testicles than any man in that building.
So you tell your landlord or mortgage holder that you just got a 10% cut in salary so they'll have to take 10% less. WTF - This is more shortsighted thinking by pinhead partners. Have the Dorkey & WhiTTTney partners offered to share in the pain!
MOOBS!!!!!
Salary cuts are simply an omen of things to come for associates everywhere.
If you know that the Bangalore associates are making .55 cents per hour and there is very little business in the States, overpaid associates making $160,000 will suddenly find themselves an endangered species.
Globalization and an economic downturn like the Great Recession is hell on wheels for businesses. Just look at GM and Chrysler; they failed to innovate. So as they fall, so will law firms decline and fall.
NY to $75K!
Marianne Short is like the Chuck Norris of Minnesota law...only tougher.
100k starting is not a lot for minn, which has a higher cost of living than you think. No way I am looking at Dorsey for employment. Cheap firm in an expensive city.
63; 53 again. You are clearly suffering from your menstrual cycle. Perhaps if we give you 30% time off and an extra month of vacation per year we can settle you down. Here's an idea for balancing the firm balance sheets. Fire all the menstruating women lawyers.
66
Overpaid associates making $160,000 are already an endangered species.
~Bitter Latham ex-associate
59. They may not go right away. But you can bet every top Dorsey lawyer is polishing his resume right now. And as soon as they can they'll migrate to other firms (perhaps in other cities) that won't be the MARKET LEADER in salary cuts next time.
As someone who has never actually met ellie, could someone please confirm that he has a fat-guy speech impediment including (a) heavy breathing (b) reverberation of fat-flesh closing is air-canal.
Without this imformation, I read his mumbled text with George Wednt's voice in my head, which seems imprecise.
Need confirmation before I read another preachy, assinine post.
Aren't there a few national firms with mpls offices that pay 160k? I don't think Dorsey or Faegre were market leaders in minnesota.
Fish & Richardson is the only National firm that paid $160K in MSP. Since they're an IP firm I'm not sure that's really a fair comparison with other MSP firms.
Well over half of Dorsey's corporate partners in NYC are nothing but dead weight that the firm has been carrying for years. Getting rid of these nonperformers would have helped their bottom line a lot, and maybe avoided the salary cuts (beyond the freeze). But those old farts have longevity, if nothing else. And I do mean, nothing else.
73,
The top Minneapolis firms start at $120K
I find it interesting that Dorsey attorneys don't comment on the hotness of women in Minneapolis. Too busy working to look outside? Or just gay?
"there is no way this will set a trend in Seattle"
Isn't it already the trend nationwide?
DLA and morgan lewis have offices there.
"DLA and morgan lewis have offices there."
Both of which have two partners and two associates.
MY LAWFIRM
"They may not go right away. But you can bet every top Dorsey lawyer is polishing his resume right now. And as soon as they can they'll migrate to other firms (perhaps in other cities) that won't be the MARKET LEADER in salary cuts next time."
That's crazy talk. You're crazy. Again, where are these people going to go?
You, and everyone else, should just accept that there was a biglaw salary bubble. The bubble's burst because, as the market has shown, it was unsustainable.
Maybe all the whining MoFo Associates should go work at Dorsey -- 10% pay cut or a 9:30 start -- I know which one I would pick!
82 = Dorsey Partner.
If this is just an industry-wide bubble bursting how come no other AmLaw 100 firm has cut salaries so deeply (and most not at all)? Answer, because partners at other firms are willing to accept a cut in their gargantuan takes before they kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
Mark my words. Dorsey will lose top talent over this.
Can someone PLEASE confirm that Mystal has a fat guy breathing problem. Every picture I've seen indicates that the fat growth on the outside of his neck would be matched with fat deposits around his bronchiols causing him to weeze and giving his voice a broken timber.
Are there any recordings of his fat voice whining about racist lawschools or some other liberal shit to compensate for his unproductive and soon to be diabetic fat-life.
Help me please. The suspense is killing me.
Don't forget this is the same Dorsey that ran to legalweek.com last June to brag about its 30% increase in Profits Per Partner: http://www.legalweek.com/Articles/1093430/Dorsey++Whitney+unveils+30+PEP+surge.html
Dorsey was the last firm in the market to raise associates in 2007. Dorsey was also the only firm in Minneapolis to freeze salaries and lay off associates when the market went south in 2001.
Dorsey long treated its associates like a three-week-old tuna fish sandwich in the back of the staff refrigerator. Those associates that chose to accept jobs at Dorsey despite its long history of treating associates like rotten food are getting exactly what they deserve.
This is a real shame for a lot of hard working associates over at Dorsey. I'm the first one to say Dorsey associates can have an over-inflated sense of their importance, but they don't deserve this treatment. Those of us at other firms should be exceeding cautious about gloating over this. This could be us next.
A humorous post from the greedy Minnesota board discussing the above mentioned article re Dorsey's 30% increase in PPP in 2007
http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003EVr
Diabetic weight-loss program == amputation.
88. That would be funny if it weren't quite so close to the truth.
Does anyone know how badly Dorsey's PPP have been hit? How much of the pain are they really sharing?
"Mark my words. Dorsey will lose top talent over this."
That's funny. Your "top talent" is entirely fungible. There is no shortage of law students ready, willing, and able to perform the type of work needed.
Dorsey & Whitney: this is the same shithole firm that hired an associate who not only hadn't passed the MN bar exam but who hadn't even been to law school; and it took them six (6) months to figure it out!
Hi, we're Dorsey & Whitney, we're totally arrogant, fucking, incompetent morons. Please bring us your high-priced legal work.
86 wrote: "Dorsey was the last firm in the market to raise associates in 2007."
***Important note here*** In the NY office, salaries were 'raised' but beyond the second year, associate salaries were on a sliding scale. And, the top of that scale for each class year was well below the "standard" NY scale. (I suspect similar 'hidden' discounts were instituted in their other offices.) So D&W "looked good" by reporting that they "met the NY market" by paying $160k to first-years, but in fact their associates were paid significantly below market. This is before the current freeze AND 10% pay cut, which makes things that much worse.
NY D&W associates are being paid 3rd-tier wages. Sucks. At least in Minneapolis they can probably claim they are still 2nd-tier.
heh 93 - I'd forgotten about that.
that's not exactly tue, 92. while law firms can probably afford to loose jr associates no problem, they cannot afford to loose so many mid-levels and srs that there is no one around to do the work.
when this happens, work product starts to suffer; clients bulk at bills more than usual; they take their business elsewhere; and firms like Dorsey with insufficient reputations to attract laterals collapse.
that's not exactly tue, 92. while law firms can probably afford to loose jr associates no problem, they cannot afford to loose so many mid-levels and srs that there is no one around to do the work.
when this happens, work product starts to suffer; clients bulk at bills more than usual; they take their business elsewhere; and firms like Dorsey with insufficient reputations to attract laterals collapse.
that's not exactly tue, 92. while law firms can probably afford to loose jr associates no problem, they cannot afford to loose so many mid-levels and srs that there is no one around to do the work.
when this happens, work product starts to suffer; clients bulk at bills more than usual; they take their business elsewhere; and firms like Dorsey with insufficient reputations to attract laterals collapse.
92. Yeah. And the best of those law students will now go to Faegre or Robins or more likely out of town. God knows there are a lot of people wishing they hadn't been persuaded by the "come to Minneapolis; we treat our associates better than major markets" argument. And if that talent is so fungible why did all the best firms bid up the price of young lawyers to begin with? Charitable impulse? If you don't think there is a correlation between what you pay for and what you get then you are not only arrogant. You are also an economic illiterate.
96-98: Better learn the difference between 'loose' and 'lose' before your SA assignment is up. Not that you'll ever get an offer with those grammar and posting skills you exhibit.
Read Roxana's post from this morning, and consider it your personal crystal ball.
84: You are assuming Dorsey has already recruited top talent. Dorsey settles for the law school students that don't get offers from Fargre, Robins, Fredrikson and Briggs, so they aren't worried about losing top talent because no top talent with ANY other option would work there to begin with.
101 you are ful of s---. Check out who has gone there and who has gone to the roster of firms you have mentioned. Would you rather go some place that cares about preserving its associates jobs or a firm that lays a bunc h off. The choice is yours.
100, beleiev it or not, I'm a 5th year at a top 20 firm (Vault and AMLaw). I've just grown up relying too much on spell check. Thanks for addressing the merits of my post though. ;)
Best post yet: Dorsey is losing talent to Briggs. That's good stuff.
Yes, I'm sure associates looking for the best in Minneapolis will start flooding to Faegre...the firm that just canned 30 associates. Sounds family friendly to me, and they obviously have tons of extra work to hand around.
Going from Dorsey to Faegre is just rearranging chairs on the Titanic. The entire law firm model is imploding.
We'll all find out who is the weakest link.
Poll: If Ellie got liposuction, would he (a) eat the removed by-product or (b) fill a blow-up doll with it so as to enjoy a warm-gushy sexual experience.
Vote: A or B.
23,
Awesome post. Hadn't read that name in a few decades. Did you like the new Star Trek movie?
102: I'd rather be at a firm that cuts the deadweight and rewards productive associates. Why punish associates that are meeting their billable hour requirements and producing quality work product? It isn't the responsibility of hardworking associates to carry the water for under performing associates. This sounds like some whacked-out socialist that believes everything so be done for the collective good of the entire associate population. Lock-step salaries is one thing, but at the end of the day, each associate should sink or swim on his/her own.
102: I'd rather be at a firm that cuts the deadweight and rewards productive associates. Why punish associates that are meeting their billable hour requirements and producing quality work product? It isn't the responsibility of hardworking associates to carry the water for under performing associates. This sounds like some whacked-out socialist that believes everything so be done for the collective good of the entire associate population. Lock-step salaries is one thing, but at the end of the day, each associate should sink or swim on his/her own.
I thought Fish was the only firm in Minneapolis with a sizable office. Do they still pay incoming associates $160k?
When will Short come on her internal video and confirm that billables have been dropped significantly? Are they stupid? Do they really think that associates are ignoring the glaring omission of the corresponding drop in billables? Puuulllllease Dorsey, give your associates some credit. Don't be so insulting as to think that you can pay your associates 10% less but still expect the same from them as Faegre, K&L, Perkins, etc. You are living in a dream world! Salvage what (if any) credibility you have remaining and promptly announce the billable reduction.
I'm a partner and couldn't agree more with 111. Even I, who has a vested interested in slashing associate salaries (love you Short!), acknowledges that we are dreaming if we think we can ignore the need to reduce billables accordingly. It's pure nonsense. And while better late than never, those idiots on the management committee could have avoided ALL of this bad, embarrassing publicity (that you know our in-house clients are reading) by simply lowering the billables at right then and there yesterday. That way, you get to announce the upside and downside at the same time and you soften the inordinate blow. What idiots. The sense of entitlement the mgmt committee espoused by their actions yesterday is shameful.
111-are you an idiot? We associates are quite aware that our billables have dropped. Name me a corporate group that is overloaded with work these days. But, we do have a bonus program for both billables and also a discretionary bonus. I just won't qualify but maybe some of the litigation associates will.
112--serious doubts that you are a partner--you tool.
Dorsey’s Management’s Committees gifts in the past five months:
- Salary freeze (loss of $10K) (but promises to lift the freeze when the economy turns)
- Salary slashing (whopping 10%)
- 55 staff layed off
- 401(K) contributions slashed
- Summer associate length of program slashed
- CLE travel eliminated (apparently, on top of everything, Dorsey doesn’t value ongoing education!)
I’m tired just from writing all of this. These collective actions should receive the bad publicity they deserve. Has any other firm taken such extreme measures, in particular, such drastic salary cuts? The firm must be going under. This is bad, bad, bad and a sign of wretched things to come. Get out while you can!
113 - you are the idiot. I'm not 111 or 112 but it's clear they are talking about billable hour REQUIREMENTS, not hours billed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Dorsey already require 50 more hours than Faegre?
115 - are they going to take away my blackberry next? Oh wait a minute, I hope so!
Yes, Faegre associate here, laughing my ass off at Dorsey. Yes, I can confirm that Dorsey requires 50 hrs more per year than Faegre and, ha ha ha ha, you make $15K less now! I'm laughing my ass off at you that you turned me down for a summer associate position.
Oh, and we at Faegre did layoffs of the deadweight so that we didn't lose the valuable associates. ya! Go layoffs = the smart way to do it.
115 -- well, in Minneapolis, Faegre whacked 30 associates. I'd say that's worse than cutting off CLE travel, which is a ridiculous expenditure in any market.
103: Hard to believe you're an actual associate. I didn't comment on the merits of your post because there are none. And you wouldn't have to "rely too much on spell check" (which doesn't always help, does it?) if you knew the difference between 'loose' and 'lose' that the rest of us learned back in grade school.
Stupid Looser.
I gotta say that 113 is mighty dumb if the use of the common term "billables" didn't make sense to his pea brain given the context.
Be careful 118--you could be next. Lots of those "deadweight" associates had had good reviews before they were terminated.
I think there is something to be said for trading less money for keeping jobs. Dorsey could have shown 40 associates the door and everyone would have said they were nasty. The firm shares the pain and now they are out of line. I don't get it.
I grant you that a 10% salary cut is not fun. But it's better than a 100% cut. And it gets back to the realignment going on in salaries everywhere. I also totally agree that hours should be cut as well -- maybe not 10%, but some recognition that the work isn't there.
119 has to be the biggest idiot here - as history would have it, turns out "Faegre" is genius for laying off 30 people, compared to Dorsey's irrational carnage/reckless endangerment created yesterday. I don't even know who Faegre is...but Davis Wright associate here also laughing my ass off at Dorsey in Seattle. Talk crap all you want about Davis, but the realty is that I now make as much as you and am required to bill WAY WAY less. Whoever Short is, good work - You just bumped Davis up a teir in this city!
Another Faegre Associate here-
-118 you are an idiot. Many of the associates recently laid off here certainly could not be classified as "deadweight". You must be a first or second year who genuinely believes you are worth every penny of the $120K+ you get paid. You’re not. Your present worth is merely a function of your future growth potential and attitudes like that are the kind of arrogant puffery that will lead to foot-in-mouth disease in the future for sure.
I commiserate with our fellow associates at Dorsey. They are getting the shaft for poor decision making by management. Finally, for the record, I’d rather take a pay cut for the good of the firm over seeing my colleagues get canned or be canned myself- something I am humble enough to admit is a possibility in spite of my credentials and hard work.
123 - you are just shy of an idiot. If slashing salaries was commonplace, little pidly poo poo Dorsey who no one cares about would not be making these headlines (one of the worst commentary collectively to date). What Dorsey has done is COMPLETELY out of step with the rest of nation - completely out of step, and this is big, bad news for them. a $5K salary cut would have been one thing and would lend itself to the argument that this is normal, but 10%? Unprecedented for a firm that pays pennies relative to the firms who are, and should be, slashing salaries. Dorsey thought it would slip in there unnoticed and exploit the bad economy to transfer the wealth from the associates to the partners, but it hasn't worked out all that well for them, eh? Poor Dorsey.
124 -- who is Davis Wright?
118, you're an asshole. This doesn't hurt the partners who refused you an SA spot. It hurts your law school classmates who now have to make do with less than they were promised. I won't say I wish the same on you because I have friends at Faegre. But I do hope you, and only you, get laid off.
Davis Wright = Dorsey's new competitor! hahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahahhahhahahha.
Dorsey might have slid by unnoticed with a $5K hit to associate pay, but they were asking for headlines when they national broke records at 10%.
the mgmt commitee absolutely should have dropped the billable requirement simultaneously. that was a no-brainer and a missed opportunity to salvage rep. Dropping the billable requirement, as we all know, would have been no skin off of Dorsey's back since no one is on pace to bill 1850 for the year anyhow. another bad decision by an incompetent committee. but it gives us non-dorsey folks something to write and laugh about. work would have really been boring today but for the excitement at Dorsey. hahahhahahhahahahhhahah
Noble as the sentiment may be, I think it might be time to stop pretending that "raking firms over the coals" and "giving them bad publicity" really matters.
There is a stigma now, but by the end of the year, as more of these salary freezes /cuts start happening it will be gone. They know they got us by the balls (not the other way around anymore) and the partners might as well squeeze 'em now if it will help them make some more $$.
Dont hate my moobs are just sore.
121--the hours requirement is irrelevant if you can't meet it, bozo. So who cares if I have to bill 50 more than Faegre if as a corp associate I can't get close anyway. At least I have my job and maybe when the market comes back I can get bonuses like I used to.
"And if that talent is so fungible why did all the best firms bid up the price of young lawyers to begin with? "
The simple answer is that law firm management is filled with morons. As Reinsdorf once said, to paraphase, he had to pay his pitcher what the dumbest team paid their pitchers. Same with the legal field. You're all not worth $160K. Get over it.
@128 - "who now have to make do with less than they were promised" - Have any of the affected Dorsey associates even bothered to check section 90 of the Restatement 2d of Contracts?
118, I'm going to take a giant dump in your trashcan. You'll be easy enough to track down, most people at F&B are pleasant and have perspective, like 125.
I feel bad for the folks at Dorsey, but it's better than what we did here at Faegre.
Twin Cities market compensation is just too high. It should be $90-100 to start, not $120.
For all those who think Faegre is a better shop because it laid off 30 associates instead of reducing salaries while still announcng hours and performance bonuses would be paid, let me ask you this question. Would Faegre's management have voluntarily reduced their bonuses to preserve associates jobs like Dorsey did?
I guess having good grades and passing the bar will only guarantee so much.
You can get good grades, go on law review, have a great resume, etc. and get your foot in the door.
The problem that most law students and lawyers have is that they can't figure out how to keep a job.
This problem stems from the fact that most lawyers have a huge sense of entitlement. The real reason they go to law school is because they want a "prestigiuos" job that pays "lots" of money. That is a huge sense of entitlement and vanity. They let these traits lead their life and so now they will have to reap its consequences for the rest of their life.
You imagine a "perfect" life, but that is bound to fail because life is rarely perfect, hence your conflict.
Schadenfraude!!!!!!!!
Dorsey & Whitney: this is the same shithole firm that hired an associate who not only hadn't passed the MN bar exam but who hadn't even been to law school; and it took them six (6) months to figure it out!
Hi, we're Dorsey & Whitney, we're totally arrogant, fucking, incompetent morons. Please bring us your high-priced legal work.
You said this once before dickhead. Very old news. What's wrong? Unemployment checks running out for you?
It's the worst salary slash in the country to date for a firm at this pay level. I don't know how they think they can get away with this. In Seattle, the salaries are now lower than the mere local, insignificant firms, such as Davis Wright, Lane Powell and the like, while the billable requirement at Dorsey is higher! Call it rocket science, but man oh man, this doesn't add up. What the hell are they thinking at that shop? You want your billable requirement to be on par with the big players in town, such as Perkins and K&L, but your salaries lower than the local firms. Something is simply not adding up here. Nice try, mgmt committee. But you failed. miserably.
121 you're a bozo. "the hours requirement is irrelevant if you can't meet it, bozo." Umm, isn't that exactly the point? The point, of course, being that you LOWER the billable requirement so that the associates CAN meet it. Now more than ever Dorsey needs to lower the billable requirement. Given the slash in pay, coupled with the fact that 1850 is completely unattainable, the associates have no motivation whatsoever to even bill anything, since they can't come anywhere near the requirement and are guaranteed to fall short. If you drop the requirement to 1700, then the associates have an incentive, but keeping it at 1850 (with a dramatic pay decrease) will inevitably cause the associates to throw in the towel at 1400. Dorsey is idiotic. no wonder they are having a financial crisis with morons like this running the mgmt committee.
Associates at Dorsey are pissed. Management has no idea how bad it is, because the associates are obviously not so dumb as to show it overtly. But they are secretly plotting.
McDermoTTT is next!
How will I face my friends?
Any amount Dorsey thought it saved by slashing salaries was clearly lost today in lost productivity. Thank GOD for ATL, which exposes firms who make such disastrous decisions. It's good that their poor decision-making of firms is aired so that potential aquirors know better than to ever want to merge with such idiots.
Fuck you 10 percenters. Sonnenshit just cut salaries by 15% on top of a pay freeze, shittier but more expensive health care plans, and 401k chargebacks.
Come to Dorsey. We promise to pay you $108K per year and require you to work 1850 hours. Now if that isn't a sexy offer, I can't imagine what would be. Why wouldn't you want to work more hours than other firms for less money?
Except the 10% pay cut is for the last half of the year so it is really 114K and if you are only billing 1200 hours explain how that is a hardship. So, geniuses Dorsey lowers the billable hours requirement to 1400 and what--pays bonuses for work over that --get serious.
Rumor has it Lindquist and Vennum (of Sapphic Summer Associate fame) has also cut associate salaries by 10%. Can anyone confirm?
Wow 151, you really are easily manipulated into believing idiotic things. You really believe that the 10% pay cut will only be in effect through the last six months of the year? You really believe them when they say that it will be relieved as of January 1? Just like M. Short promised in her e-mail freezing salaries that she would lift the freeze (and, instead, she lowered them to record levels). You cannot trust Dorsey & Whitney. They've lost all trust amongst their associates. Associates can't wait for the economy to turn so that they can flew this craphole.
Glad to see the Dorsey third years no longer living in denial. Sorry about the pay cut.
DorseTTT. Makes me puke. Minny is a crappy city to begin with; now I have to get up and go to work at a place that is robbing me. And if I have to pass M. Short one more time in the hall, I think I really will hate my life.
152 -- I have heard this from someone in L&V, yes.
Partner here from local firm in town. I just heard of this news. Every year we lose our talent to Dorsey. In my experience, Dorsey loses all of their talent to the large, more prestigious firms in town but swallows up those associates who aren't good enough to get into the likes of Perkins, K&L Gates, etc. Those "big-firm rejects" are the associates the small firms compete with Dorsey for in town, but because Dorsey previously paid a bigger salary, we lost most of those people to Dorsey. Now, with Dorsey paying less than us but yet requiring many more billable hours, it seems like a no-brainer that we'll get all of the Dorsey talent. For planning purposes, my question is - is Dorsey even going to recruit this summer? What would be the point, since they now have a competitive disadvantage with the combo of high billables and (much) lower salary. Anyone with knowledge of this, please post.
I was one of the lay-offs from Dorsey this past Tuesday. I genuinely LOVED working for Dorsey. I was so proud of how Dorsey financially aided such diverse organizations and causes. I was proud that Dorsey financially supported Bethune School with enough school supplies for every student. That representation was provided for Enemies of the United States in Guant. Bay. Funding available for and Arabic section at our Public Library so that non English books are available. So on Tuesday there I sat with 29 other co-workers being told that we needed to leave right a way, and to not talk to anyone about it, I'm sitting next to men and women, some a few months from retirement who are not eligible for their pensions. Women and men who had worked for Dorsey since the early 1970's. We were the support staff that went above and beyond administrative work. We made sure it all went smooth for the managing partners who axed our lives on Tuesday. So much for the stellar reviews we received year after year. They didn't know us, we were just numbers. Dorsey, the next time you "help" another cause that most Americans wouldn't embrace, maybe you should look first at how you treated your own people first.
157 clearly is not practicing in Minnesota. Dorsey is the biggest firm in town, there are no "bigger firms."
Aside from 158 seeming a bit xenophoic generous severance was provided to all. Many received 26 weeks.
Wow 26 weeks is so much better than losing your entire lifelihood, a career and all around life change -- who out there will hire 55+ legal support person without a formal education most were trained on the job when they started as clerks or assistants when they were 18 sorry if I'm sounding a bit xenophoic -
So, you're saying Dorsey should hold onto an unemployable person?
I was layed off also but not in the group setting. I sat by myself with the "powers that be". At least Dorsey could have had the courtesy to talk to these admin. staff individually. Laying off one staffer that was set to retire at the end of June was incredibly cruel. I was able to go back to my dept. and say goodbye to my crew and had the option to pack up my own belongings. The hardest part is if you are not able to say goodbye to friends you have worked with for years. When we are all out job hunting, we will definitely think twice about giving another employer that many years of our life. Loyalty only goes one way people. They were generous with the severance according to an employment agency I talked to today. I got 6 months but the agency heard that people with my longevity only get 1 month. Even more devestating to hear about the 10% cut for the associates and the reduced 401k contribution. AND, beware still current employees, by the way things look, there will DEFINITELY be more layoffs and cuts to come.............
157, you are are an idiot.
Word is that Faegre had a capital call in the past week or so - any truth to that?
165 - I heard the same. And what selflessness compared to Dorsey who steals from its associates rather than take from its partners. Faegre is a model of honor compared to Dorsey. 10%? Really Dorsey? Really??
166: That is 10% ON TOP OF A SALARY FREEZE. Which means a cut of about $30-35k (in NYC) or about $20k (MN and other markets) over what midlevel associates expected to be earning this year (and in coming years).
You can bet the rainmaker partners at Dorsey are already well along into their exit plans, and that the competent/hardworking associates will flee as soon as they possibly can. When the economy starts picking up I bet Dorsey will be a casualty, if not sooner.
It would not be absurd to start a deathwatch on D&W.
167 - if starting salaries at DW are 120 in Mpls (which were frozen at 120) and they were reduce 10% for only 1/2 of the year (i.e., 5%for the year), that equates to a $6,000 reduction for 2009 and, if not reversed, $12,000 for 2010. Senior associates in Mpls are at around $150k so the 5% reduction is $7,500 for 2009 and $15,000 for 2010. You might want to check your math . . .
167 - if starting salaries at DW are 120 in Mpls (which were frozen at 120) and they were reduce 10% for only 1/2 of the year (i.e., 5%for the year), that equates to a $6,000 reduction for 2009 and, if not reversed, $12,000 for 2010. Senior associates in Mpls are at around $150k so the 5% reduction is $7,500 for 2009 and $15,000 for 2010. You might want to check your math . . .
165 - more likely FB was out of compliance with its lending covenants and its lender required the call - a much more serious issue than laying off support staff.
166 - a DW deathwatch? You are an idiot.
166 - more likely FB was out of compliance with its lending covenants and its lender required the call - a much more serious issue than laying off support staff.
167 - a DW deathwatch? You are an idiot.
165 - more likely that FB was out of compliance with its lending covenants and its bank required the call - a much more serious issue than laying off support staff.
166 - more likely that FB was out of compliance with its lending covenants and its bank required the call - a much more serious issue than laying off support staff.
166 - more likely that FB was out of compliance with its lending covenants and its bank required the call - a much more serious issue than laying off support staff.
173 - I'm a layed off support staff, that's the most important issue for me than some associate sitting around doing nothing more than research because something might come up when the economy comes around. Who I was in Dorsey and what I did for associates, rainmakers and everyone else, made their jobs flow. Deflate your ego somewhat, you know all that charity work you do come United Way Campaign time and all those volunteer projects you involve yourself with so you'll look good for your mentor or you're department head, well we the support staff that are so little to you, we are those people now you'll be "helping" out.
168/9: I'll give you the 'half' reduction for this year. But I also posted MID-LEVEL associates (who cares about first-years/starting salaries? Let's look at the average associate) and IN COMING YEARS.
And check your own math/reasoning, smartass. You failed to include the effective salary reduction brought about by the SALARY FREEZE, which also will be a deficit in each future year compared to associates' salaries if no freeze were implemented, even if they reinstitute 'normal' yearly salary bumps next year. D&W will NEVER bump that 10% back, nor will they give associates a 2-year bump to make up for the freeze. They set a new, lower salary standard and will stick by it as long as they can (or as long as they survive).
I stand by my figures, with a small correction for this year. It is still a large reduction in income from what was anticipated, with the double-whammy of a freeze and a 10% cut. This is a much more SEVERE cut than firms who merely froze salaries, or just made a 5% cut, etc. Dorsey is hurting badly, and this just makes it worse. Associates are PISSED.
Do you really think Dorsey will bump up that 10% any time soon? They won't. And the firm was already hurting before this economic downturn. This latest bonehead move (freeze plus large salary cut) is a huge nail in the D&W coffin. And the partners with large books of business ARE working on exit strategies.
I stand by my suggestion to put D&W on a deathwatch list.
175 - talk about ego - whoa nelly! I think 173 was talking about which is more problematic for a firm's existence as a viable business entity - a capital call or a layoff . . .
Although staff is valuable, I know at least a couple of staff who were laid off this week that were totally useless. Dumping them made sense in any economic climate.
176 mathematics aside, you don't have a clue about Dorsey's well being . . .
178 I'd like to see you tell these usless layed off staff people that, that we were dumped because we were uselss. Were you there at Dorsey and saw the work we useless people did? its people like you that make this past week so effin wonderful. You know what's useless to me? The semi retired partners who have offices still at Dorsey and are still on payroll and still enjoy all the perks like exclusive memberships and free subcriptions to countless periodicals that pile up at their semi retired desks.
180: I said "at least a couple of staff", and yes, I DID WORK WITH THEM DIRECTLY and I KNEW firsthand that these particular people were indeed useless and should have been let go a while ago. I also worked with very many staff people (the majority) that were and are indeed helpful and talented. Don't read generalizations into my comments that simply aren't there. And I also agree that Dorsey has many totally deadweight partners who should have been culled a long time ago.
179: Sorry pal, you can remain optimistic about Dorsey if you want, and keep believing that your rose-colored glasses are neutral 20/20. But I am still employed and I do know a lot about Dorsey's health, apparently a lot more than you do. And it is NOT good. Now stick your head back in the sand and relax.
179: When I say I know more than you do, I am referring to things like current changes in partner distributions, current and projected trends in billings for the firm's major clients, etc., all of which are down and the picture is worsening. So feel free to gossip with the associates and staff and pretend that the worst is over and things are about to get better. You might want to look up some alumni of places like Thelen and Morgan & Finnegan while you're at it. There were some blissfully ignorant optimists in those ranks too.
Dorsey management committee doesn't know its head from its ass. Their idiotic decision to cut salaries is the nail in Dorsey's coffin. Associates are less desirous than ever to work. What's the point? They don't get paid nearly enough to sacrifice what the job requires. Stupid, short-sighted decision. Fire everyone on the mgmt committee, rather than cut associate pay. Hey, there's an idea to cut costs. Clearly they are useless. Idiots.
183 is genius. Associates have lost all respect and trust in Dorsey. If Dorsey thought it had troubles before with associate billing levels, wait til they see what they brought on now. It's going to be hysterical when the partners not on the mgmt committee begin to see numbers falling even more, which will be directly linked to the idiotic decision by the mgmt committee. Then the partners are going to be irrate at the mgmt committee.
Associate here who would normally be working right now and all weekend but hey, I'm going to take the weekend off now. Idiots. Way to make a counter-productive decision. Good work genius mgmt committee! good f'in work.
I was one of the staff people who begged for work. I sure hope I am not considered one of the"useless persons" and I do know of others that pawned off their work and they shouldn't have a job. Those persons made way more money than I did. I guess that is what makes it so hard to be one of the chosen to go.
Worst. Decision. Ever. Here I go. Under 1300 hours this year is guaranteed. F' this.
yawn. I would normally be billing right now. Sorry bitches....not anymore. I'm not about to earn you any money when you are not passing any of it on to me. Bullshit. F'in greedy-ass Dorsey.
187-Amen Brother
187-Amen Brother
187-Amen Brother
187--you're not a Dorsey associate or you would know that billable hours bonuses and performance bonuses are available. And, if you are a Dorsey associate I guess you just kissed them goodbye. Yes, cutting salaries is hard but better than cutting jobs. And again where else would members of mgmt voluntarily reduce bonuses to save associates jobs?
Dorsey's bonuses are a joke, and won't make up for the freeze+cut that they did on salaries. This firm is seriously hurting. I expect things to get worse.
191 = President of the Management Committee. foolio. dolt. Cutting jobs of people who don't deserve them is not worse than cutting the pay of those that you value.
193--and who doesn't deserve their associate's job? The first or second year who hasn't got much work because the economy is down but who is otherwise a good lawyer?
look out for a merger people......it's coming.....
195, what merger?
just speculating but with high suspicion
$0 left over from the campaign for Coleman to pay his lawyers???????
$0 left over from the campaign for Coleman to pay his lawyers???????