My best advice to HLS grads on avoiding a layoff?

Avoid working for Thompson Hine.

that's "tiny crimson diploma" btw

RA - has Thompson Hine actually laid people off?

3,

Yes, we've been having stealth layoffs for over a year.

Then, in February, we were the first firm (and still one of the only) to enact the "hybrid tough love package" which included announced staff layoffs, associate layoffs, and a 1/6th paycut for associates that weren't laid off.

Stealth layoffs have continued even after the announced layoffs, leading a lot of us to worry about additional rounds of layoffs (and/or further paycuts).

Partners are fully aware that we remaining associates have no job security and few lateral opportunities, and have been treating us accordingly since then. Lots of games/face time/artificial deadlines.

Their attitude is very much "whoever doesn't like it can be the next one to be unemployed."

Not a classy (or beneficial in the long-term) way to run a business.

Harvard is the new gay.

If you bear in mind that most BigLaw associates are easily in the office 6 days per week, then a 1/6th paycut is basically like getting to come into Thompson Hine one day EVERY week and work for free.

Most of us were barely satisfied with this job before the pay cuts. Now, we get to come in and work one day a week for free.

Of course, the really sad/infuriating thing is that we're the lucky ones. The people that got laid off are really in dire straits.

If you're going to work for an Ohio firm (something of a dubious prospect given the OH economy), work for a firm that takes better care of its associates and staff - I'd recommend Jones Day or Baker Hostetler (yes, both of these firms have plenty of issues and plenty to hate, but both are way way waaaay better places to work than Thompson Hine).

Thanks RA.

I had never heard of Thompson Hine before you started posting, but I will remember to avoid it at all cost.

The ship be sinking...

Yeah, the idiots were out in force protesting Harvard laying off staff during commencement. News flash to the morons holding the signs: the economy sucks. Everybody is getting laid off. Why the fuck should Harvard's janitors be the only ones immune from the economy? Oh right, they shouldn't be, you're just the kind of people who do whatever they can to protest "the man" despite the fact that, now that you've graduated, you ARE "the man."

Oh, not to mention they fucked over their fellow law students by doing this. We only got 2 tickets each to the university-wide commencement ceremonies. The rest of our families had to watch on closed-circuit TV. Those signs are blocking half of the law school class, ensuring that families that traveled from all over the world can't see their loved ones graduate. Fuck them.

This post is worthless. Who gives a crap?

Like 9, I was totally annoyed by these protesters at graduation. But they've been doing obnoxious things all year, so I wasn't surprised to see them screwing up graduation, as well.

These morons are either (i) a bunch of rich daddy's girl limosine liberals who aren't paying their own way or (ii) the same idiots who'll be begging for a student loan bailout in 3 years.

If you feel so strongly about layoffs, have your daddies write a check to cover the cost of the staffers. Don't try to foist the cost on those of us who don't have a trust fund.

RA - i'm a 1L and TH has offices in major markets too. good to know i should avoid. (don't remember if it's in NYC or just Chicago.)

Still no post dedicated to the NYT article this weekend? You know, the one about the Biglaw model being in the crapper? Even referencing ATL? Huh....

Mystal, I gunna cum all over your moobs if you do not pick up your game a little.

That really stinks when people disrupt graduation ceremonies. Not necessarily the time/place to be having a demonstration.

Although, considering what Harvard's endowment is (still massive after the market decline) and what they spend in general, I can see why laying off janitors seems like a silly place to make cuts. If things aren't that bad, then why cut janitors? If they are that bad, then isn't cutting janitors like using a sippy cup to bail water from a boat?

Seems to me that janitor layoffs are silly, but that graduation isn't the best forum for that message.

7 - happy to help. Most people haven't heard of Thompson Hine (big surprise), but since Thompson Hine is an AmLaw 200 firm we typically get some prospects that give us a look on the basis that, since we aren't at the tippy-top with the big guys, we must be a kinder and gentler version of those guys.

Unfortunately, we're just a firm that desperately wants to be a top firm (and treats its associates according to that model), but lacks partners with enough prestige and expertise to bring in the sort of work that would make the firm a top player. So, associates here quickly discover that they have managed to avoid the top of market work, pay and prestige of BigLaw, but none of the bullshit.

Avoid.

13 - always happy to help. In the major markets, we only have offices in NYC and Washington D.C. Though, nobody in those cities is aware of our presence because the offices aren't well established and don't get the high profile and/or cutting edge work. Just mid-market drudgery but with a big city cost of living.

Avoid.

(note to the Partners - Please note my above volunteer activities for the hiring committee. Just doing my part to spread the good word about everything this firm provides. No need to thank me.)

FROM ELIE's Twitter Page:

"Every time I hear Pat Buchanan talk, I feel sorry for white heterosexual males. It must be really hard to learn to share."

You are a racist Elie. Seriously.

Those graduates who wrote on the back of their diplomas and held them up are the smart ones: they got more practical use out of their degrees than most of their classmates ever will.

"I believe this picture has more to do with law students protesting Harvard's layoffs of various staffers around the university, not the dismal economy all lawyers are facing."

Thanks, EagleEye. Never would have come to that conclusion on my own.

Are HLS grads actually having a hard time finding jobs? I mean, seriously?

What's your moniker on xoxo?

Latham NY laid off at least 2 first years from Harvard.

Also, did Dave Gordon bomb the LSAT? Why'd he go to Syracuse Law School?

It's almost 11 and no post on either the NY Times article from this weekend on Big Law or the SCOTUS decision today where the WVa judge got his ass handed to him. This blog sucks these days.

Thanks to the commenters that pointed out the NYT article.

It's an interesting read.

If only there were a blog to point out major articles of interest to the legal profession... then commenters wouldn't have to keep each other informed.

If only such a blog existed...

17 - That's true of many (most?) firms in the AmLaw 100-200 range.

27,

Unfortunately, that is not the case.

Although many (most?) firms in the AmLaw 100-200 range are also experiencing the downturn and have done some belt tightening, hardly any firms have had to resort to Partner Emeritus' hybrid tough love package of paycuts and wide spread announced layoffs (in addition to the ongoing stealth layoffs).

Thompson Hine's capital position and standing with creditors must be shaky or something, because we pounced on the hybrid tough love package months ago. We were the first to do it, and remain one of the few to do it.

Every firm is having some difficulty, but Thompson Hine is basically handing out the worst version of every response to the downturn.

Also, when there is a slowdown and layoffs, some firms take the "isn't sad we have to do this" tone with their corrections. Thompson Hine is much more of the "bill or GTFO" approach. It makes the whole thing even less pleasant for us.

29th cupcake for MysTTTal today

can we get an update on Epstein?

i really enjoy reading about your personal vendetta against an insignificant racist, Elie

RA - i'll be sure to avoid TH/NYC.

31,

You would be wise to do so. Happy to help.

If you're curious about how associate morale at Thompson Hine is, here are two interesting facts:

1) Someone like me on ATL exists in the first place, b/c associates get no information and have no avenues to have our feedback listened to by partners. They've made it clear they don't care, and are only looking to preserve PPP.

2) Like at every firm, tons of us at Thompson Hine read ATL. When a firm that takes care of its associates/staff (like Jones Day) gets bad mouthed on ATL, employees within the firm post here to defend their firm. That never happens for Thompson Hine. We read ATL, there's just no reason for us to defend this hell hole from criticism.

Rogue associate-- you are a boob and a crybaby.

Both absolutely true.

I hate being treated like shit, I hate seeing my fellow associates and staff get treated like shit (especially all those that got terminated for "performance reasons"), and am generally inclined to make some noise about it.

To many, that makes me a crybaby, I know.

Fortunately, this warm and fuzzy cloak of anonymity insulates me from those concerns.

20, how would those of us not in harvard law school know whether harvard is laying off janitors? I didn't think that was so obvious.

I don't know, none of the "protestors" look all that sad.

HLS JD '09 here.

The protesters are upset about janitorial layoffs, not about associate/3L layoffs or deferrals. Typical head-in-the-sand liberals who have no sense of perspective. Every single one of those janitors has a higher net worth than any of our friends and colleagues who have been laid off.

Also, those are not the diplomas. This was at the morning ceremony, before the diplomas were given.

20, it's customary to read an article before you comment on it.

As you'll note from the photo, the Harvard graduates are waving gavels. It's a Harvard tradition for graduates to wave objects at morning exercises that represent their Harvard experience. Harvard Business School students waved flags to represent their international community and Harvard Graduate School of Education graduates waved children's books. Last year, the education students waved signs asking that education be

Somebody please smack some sense into these whippersnappers! Academia certainly isn't immune from the realities of the economy.

35, it's explained in the text of the article that you're commenting on.

As you'll note from the photo, the law students are waving gavels. It's a Harvard tradition for students to wave objects at morning exercises that represent their Harvard experience. Students from Harvard Business School waved flags and students from the Harvard Graduate School of Education waved children's books. The books and flags blocked just as much as the "No Layoffs" signs and no one from the business or ed school is complaining that they were blocked out -- especially since the signs were only in the air for about 10 seconds and the chances of their parents finding or seeing them in such a large crowd were slim to none.

Harvard spent a ridiculous amount of money on commencement - what better time to ask the Harvard administration to question its financial priorities?

These new lawyers -- advocates -- chose to represent their Harvard Law School experience by standing up for others. Good for them.

Wow - HLS grads who can spell.

Harvard LAW Graduation, not Harvard University Graduation.

Elie, you suck.

RA,

Thanks for the props to Baker. We're f'n swamped over here. Sorry to hear things are so bad. Hope it gets better.

43,

Just calling them like I see them. I have friends at Baker and they aren't swamped, but they are generally making hours (or coming close), and not with a bunch of worthless fluff bullshit work (which is pretty much the only work to be had at Thompson Hine).

Heck, I've even played poker with some Baker partners - they generally act like human beings.

That must be nice for you guys...

42, you clearly didn't go to Harvard. There are two commencement ceremonies: one for only Harvard Law School students, and one for the entire university.

Do you see the other people wearing the caps and gowns? The ones not standing? The ones who are not waving gavels or holding signs? They're non-law students. Which means that Elie was correct -- this photo was taken at morning exercises. Bonehead.

You critics of protesters are all a bunch of selfish schmucks. Fortunately I have the satisfaction of knowing that you will all rot in law firm hell :)

These signs had nothing to do with the sad plight of Harvard grads struggling to suckle from big law. It had everything to do with a University with plenty of cash laying off workers who need incomes. We should all be doing our part to help workers in these tough times.

The protest did not disturb graduation, whoever made that allegation could not have been present since it was a huge graduation and at max a row of law students was obscured for a few seconds.

I am an HLS grad very proud of this protest and all who participated. Let the complainers rot I say.

This Panda believes that you all have it backwards.

The students are not Protesting. They are not protesting "No Layoffs" for themselves. Nor are they protesting "no layoffs" for themselves.

They are simply bragging to their parents. In the vein of "hi mom!!" What they are bragging about is that none of the Harvard Law grads were laid off or rescinded or deferred.

Misfit Mascot Panda could be an amusing persona to use, but post 47 wasn't all that amusing/interesting. Got any better schtick for the Panda your next outing?

Agree with 46 - I graduated from HLS last week, and I was thrilled to see my classmates hold up these signs in support of Harvard workers.

Harvard still has $20-30 billion. Many of its less wealthy peers are trying to save jobs by finding more equitable ways to make cuts (the president and top administrators of Stanford have taken a voluntary 10% pay cut for the next two academic years).

The people on this site often complain about associates being sacrificed to preserve profits-per-partner; if they believe in shared sacrifice at law firms, why shouldn't Harvard professors and administrators making mid-to-high six figures take an across the board pay cut to save jobs?

I was sitting 5 rows behind the protestors--I don't care if they blocked me, and my parents certainly didn't care if they could see me or not for the 5 or so seconds law students were on the jumbotrons.

Commencement was the MOST appropriate time to speak truth to this administration.

I never thought I'd say this, but Yeah HLS! What a contrast to HBS sitting up a few rows in front of us! When Pres. Faust said the HBS students were ready to be leaders of economic organizations, the HLS students around me erupted in spontaneous laughter. When the Boston Globe put pictures from the Harvard University Commencement up on its website, the picture of HBS showed a student waving a wad of money in his hand. The picture of the HLS section showed signs reading, "NO LAYOFFS."

Nice autoadmit reference.
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=796666&mc=9&forum_id=2#9602375

Hey #48

Too bad my comment wasn't funny enough for you. It's tough being funny! Click on my name and you'll see the other comments I've made, none really too hilarious. Really, only my first one was strongly panda related. O well.

I'll look into being funnier in my next outing.

Remember: frivolous lawsuits make me a saaad panda.

9- Good points. Those graduates are just young and stupid- let them work for a little while and they'll understand that there is only so much money and so many jobs to go around, and they'll realize how naive and silly they looked.

I never thought I could be so proud of my fellow HLS classmates! Finally, law students thinking of others for a change, instead of themselves--and this at a time when many law graduates are having trouble finding work.

I'm only ashamed I didn't have the courage to do something like this myself. I guess some of us are only capable of whining about our own plight anonymously on blog comment boards.

Yes, there is only so much money--and most of it is lavished on obscenely overpaid, megalomaniac professors and administrators (and law firm partners, for that matter). Either that, or it's hoarded in gargantuan, tax-exempt endowments.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for disrupting the self-congratulatory smugness of the Harvard commencement!

These kids are awesome! I also graduated from HLS last week, and I sat 15-20 rows behind the protesters. They didn't block anything. They had the decency to hold up the signs only at the very end of the degree conferral, and stayed standing after everyone else sat down. Better than the K-school people holding a fucking globe in their hands, or the B-school people waving wads of cash! Jesus, how much of an egotist do you have to be?! I'm proud that HLS students, with all their privilege, actually stood up for people other than themselves for once, while everyone else was patting themselves on the back.

Hey 55 - it's a FUCKING GRADUATION. The graduates ARE SUPPOSED to pat themselves on the back.

Harvard students...thinking of people other than themselves? Umm, this story is obviously a hoax...

congrats to everyone who graduated HLS, but the party's over and it's time to meet reality

HLS is where you go if you're so full of shit that no other law school worth spit will allow you in. It's the HLS grads who are fucking up the world for the rest of us. May they all rot in deepest dungen in hell.