If you don't give summers work, the terrorists win.

Isn't this sort of thing called an "exam"?

this is a very clever idea on the part of whatever firm is doing this.

i know youre not talking about cravath, but i should say if i found out the endless hours im putting in here at CSM was "fake" i would be PISSSSSED.

Aka, check, the firms document managment system, click save as and then head to lunch.

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This has been going on in Biglaw shops for years.

Above the Law? How about, Behind the Times?

Which firms are doing this?

I actually agree with #1 on this one, and I don't see anything wrong with doing this. If anything it's a good way to fairly weed out who can do the work and who can't. How is this any different than writing on for journal?

Blast! Fell for it, #6.

Also, I don't know what the big deal is... the summers' hours are almost always written off anyway and if there is no real work, how else are the firms supposed to evaluate their performance?

i think this is a great idea. there is nothing wrong with this. the firm doing it should be applauded.

9, it's stupid because it is a waste of everyone's time. The summers could spend time editing slide deck for client presentations, updating research on new case law, and other stuff that might actually be useful to the firm, aside from being used as a tool to fuck over its employees. I almost walked out of a meeting when my firm decided to do exactly what the blind item said.

I can also confirm that summers in my firm are doing duplicative assignments, but they are being duplicated by associates in other offices. V-25. (Offices in NY, LA, CHI, SF-SV, DC. and abroad).

5, you are hired.

Only a Texan could come up with as stupid an idea as this. Wow.

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If this is true, wouldn't summer associates just look up the information in the documents already filed, and research that way?

It also seems like a silly use of lexis and westlaw spending.

#4, do not be so sure Cravath does not do this. This practice is old and well-used by many (probably all) firms, as well as by individual partners and practice groups within many firms.

Before the days when everyone got offers, partners and practice groups would use this method to compare candidates. Why would they not do it again now?

first to oust Dechert as the culprit

Doing it at Cravath.

This happens at the firms I've worked for even in busy times - it's not like most summer associate work is ever used for ANYTHING AT ALL, so you might as well make a concerted effort to produce quality assignments, even if they are manufactured. This seems like quite a minor issue to me, although maybe it shows how sensitive firms are to the fact that there is nothing to do for many junior and summer associates (in addition to there being not much to do for anyone else).

"He looks like most white men I know; blinded by his own racism."

-- SotomayOR!

Is it cravath? Please tell me it's cravath. That would be freaking awesome.

Actually a good idea. My first summer in public accounting, back in 2001, my firm did the exact same thing. It was great training because the managers selected some of the most difficult projects, which exposed us to some important and challenging issues. It was also easier to address questions, because all we had to do was look at the real files to see how the issue was handled.

As long as they are telling these folks that this is just for training, I think it is a great idea.

Last year at latham they gave us a mock deal or mock trial depending if you wanted lit or transactional. it was a pretty good way to pick up some fake hours.

summers aren't that stupid, and associates aren't that tight-lipped. if summers are doing research for a brief that's already been filed, many of them are going to find out.

Think of this as private sector stimulus spending. I thought the Democrats would be fans of the law firm equivalent of paying associates to dig holes and to fill them up again? Where's Keynes and Krugman when you need them?

Actually a good idea. My first summer in public accounting, back in 2001, my firm did the exact same thing. It was great training because the managers selected some of the most difficult projects, which exposed us to some important and challenging issues. It was also easier to address questions, because all we had to do was look at the real files to see how the issue was handled.

As long as they are telling these folks that this is just for training, I think it is a great idea.

Alston and Bird in Atl was doing this two years ago when the economy was good. I knew a summer from there who had put together an entire portfolio of his fake work to use as writing samples.

27--summers aren't being told.

first to oust Dechert as the culprit

1 et al. -- "interesting rumor" does not equal "bad."

Why is Cravath coming up in this conversation at all? Have you talked to any associates there this year? Busy busy busy.

I thought all firms did this routinely.

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This isn't new. All summers do this every year. The whole point is to find the already conducted
research and duplicate it without plagiarizing it. Duh!

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There's nothing wrong with this - in fact, I'd say it's preferable to the make-work nonsense that Summers often get saddled with.

Writing a fake research memo for a real case that's already finished is a much better way to actually LEARN SOMETHING than editing slides for a partner's bullshit CLE presentation, or some other "real" Summer assignment...

The ship be sinking...

this has been going on for 30 years. A NY based V15 firm devoted almost an entire summer to a "Project" of non bilable monster memos from hell that at the summer's end went into the proverbial 3 hole binders and were never read again. All but one of the summers received offers and by the time the class arrived the firm was quite busy again. Would that it were the same today. I doubt it.

Genius! You take people who currently pay to be tested, take exams etc. and pay them to take tests. This is great, rather than rely on academic results, you take on the additional work of creating and grading assignments and pay students for doing this homework. Next year why don't they just eliminate the program and email out make-work assignments, you will know pretty quickly who is really interested.

Cravath and A&L are doing this.

Dear readers,

We have no real information on a widely practiced facet of summer associateship at a large law firm.

Please write our story for us.

Thanks.

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It is (a) a great idea, and (b) nothing new.

Former biglaw partner.

43 - This is Lat's post, not Elie's. Nice try, though.

Expect multiple threads on this very same subject.

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It's a shitty idea because it's a waste of resources. Some summer re-doing a memo that's been done ten times before isn't going to make me money...editing my slide decks, writing my CLE speeches/lesson plans, and doing my unbillable client development work will.

I don't think I'd be happy if I were a client of one of those firms. I'd be pissed to find out the money I'm paying them goes toward overpaid summer associates with little qualifications other than a large debt from an ivory tower school to do busy work so they can get offers to jobs they will be fired from later.

You all may look down on people like me who choose to be a summer associate for in-house counsel, but at least we're doing actual work for clients and learning how to be an actual lawyer.

i would like some ketchup on my FRIED FRANK.

K&L GaTTTes is doing this.

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Nothing wrong with this at all. It helps firms weed out who can do the work, and who merely graduated from a top law school. I see it as a way of forcing top law schools to teach practical skills.

This firm probably isn't using the fake work assignments to evaluate/compare summer associates. It's more likely using summer associate labor to check for errors in already-completed assignments to identify problematic associates for the next round of layoffs.

Seems like it is the associates' work that is being compared against the uninitiated summers that would create the real controversy. So associates, how does it feel to have a 1L draft a better memo/brief than you? Particularly with layoffs eminent?

I've heard directly from Recruiting Committees that this is being done and has been done regularly in the past. It is nothing new, but it likely will be more common this summer than in past summers.

Frankly, it's a great idea--in both bad economic times and good.

Wow 54. That is cold.
--Elie

If it were up to me, I would reassign the summer cretins to do the landscaping at my Florida manor. On second thought, the summer associates wouldn't know the difference between manure and mulch. While I acknowledge that it is common to give phony assignments to summer associates, I frown upon the practice. It is a waste of resources and it adversely affects my bottom line. It is time for peer firms to come clean and reduce the size of summer associates. We should be concentrating on keeping currently employed associates busy with real work and trim the fat. Mark my words, August will be a catastrophic month for many of you lemmings.

SkaTTTen

55:

It probably feels about the same as not knowing the difference between "eminent" and "imminent."

What are slide decks?

How far can it sink, 38?

PE wants to "reduce the size of summer associates." I think it's time we reduce the size of Elie's Moobs.

Word around the office is that something will be happening at some point, and certain thing will never be the same after that.

Sky's the limit.

Very fair way of evaluating the summers based on their performance rather than school grades/prestige.

60:

You don't believe that the layoffs are "prominent, noteworthy, great, or remkarable" I bow down to what, in your opinion, is the only way to write or speak (even though your way is not always right).

Seems like a better way to base hiring decisions rather they relying on school grades/ prestige.

This post is offense. Its not a "blind item," its a "visually impaired item." Please moderate.

How is this different from what they do with 1st year associates at these firms?

Geez or even some of the dumber 2nd/3rd year associates who skirt through because they managed to hit their hours due to getting assigned to some lucky cake-walk litigation with lots of doc-review?

Or with associates who are the children of someone important?

ATL needs to get real regarding the worth of a large portion of "BigLaw" associates.

Post 58 is definitive proof that PE is some TTT law student. Only the olds and guidos, and Trick Daddy think that a home in Florida holds any sort of lay prestige.

The Jig is up P.E.

King & Spalding has been doing this for years. I was one of a number of summer associate work coordinators several years back and we all received a memo about what kinds of assignments to give to summers. We were specifically instructed that if the work flow was slow we should make up fake assignments, or give the summers projects we had already completed without telling them, so that they would have something to do. It certainly was a devious way of making the department look busier than it actually was.

What's wrong with this policy, David? Your attitude suggests that it is better to let summer associates sit around and do nothing rather then have the firm assess their writing skills. In fact, many summer associates do not know how to write. I think it's a great idea.

Would this type of activity be akin to blogs pitching admittedly half-baked stories during slow times hoping that their mustache-ride giving bloggers will bite to provide the only available journalistic integrity?

Hello...White & Case anyone? This happened last year, too.

I'm afraid 54 has the inside scoop. Dechert?

41 - because you need the face time to see who's got normal social skills and who doesn't. Lord knows, the T10 rarely produces normal people. Smart, yes. Properly socialized to work well with others? Not so much.

What is this Big Law you speak of?

McDermoTTT is so slow senior partners are doing this to junior partners.

Doing it at S & C.

this kind of thing was somewhat interesting when I read about it in "The Firm"...

This blog has ceased to have any relevance to the current practice of law. Either get with the new world, or fold. Criticizing summer associate make-work? Dude, summers have been doing make-work for generations. And the "real" work they do is generally duplicate or a "first draft" of what a competent jr. lawyer will do. If you could see the ways summer associates have butchered closing memos . . .

Vreete-a zee breeeff thet is elreedy vreettee. Mork mork mork.

I did an unnecessary 50-state survey project back in the early '00s, at a firm that was ranked #1 by summer associates my year. And each year, a group of summer associates did that same project. I'm sure at some point, some partner looked at that research, but they certainly didn't need 3 summers to share that project EVERY year.

At my current firm, I am having trouble getting summer associates to do my REAL work for REAL clients. So, a lot of summers are not rising to the occasion. At least with associates, I can give them a decent deadline and expect them to meet it. Not give 2 weeks, only to find out they didn't start for a week and aren't concerned about finishing it...

Summers should only get fake work projects. We don't bill out their time anyways.

This is just bad journalism...

72 - Beat me to it - was just going to say King & Spading - I'm in NY & this goes on a regular basis!

It can't be Cravath - they only have 1 office in NY (besides a smaller London office, which doesn't have the same summer system).

Beating the bushes for a story.... this sounds like Elie, not Lat. Mystttal has infected the office with noob.

Hehe, I did that 50-state survey too. Heck, it took up lots of hours that were 'real' for me!

The summers in my office demand more bareback.

Goodwin Procter does this. But with its first year transactional associates in all of their offices. The first years are doing a fake corporate deal (that already closed years ago) and were given fake assignments to keep them busy since Goodwin doesn't have any transational work. No surprise since GP has been quietly laying off associates at all levels (including first years) and offices for some time now.

Goodwin Procter does this. But with its first year transactional associates in all of their offices. The first years are doing a fake corporate deal (that already closed years ago) and were given fake assignments to keep them busy since Goodwin doesn't have any transational work. No surprise since GP has been quietly laying off associates at all levels (including first years) and offices for some time now.

The best fiction is written on time sheets.

This is a great idea and there's nothing wasteful about it. Summers rarely do actual billable work anyway so why not get them to do something you can objectively measure. And like 54 says, if they do it better than the real associate did, then the real associate gets canned.

It doesn't waste Lexis or Westlaw time because most firms pay a set monthly rate, regardless of actual hours used. (They just bill the hours back to the client for a profit.)

first to oust Dechert as the culprit

first to oust Dechert as the culprit

Christ, Lat. Do your homework. Firms have been doing this for years.

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FUCK CENSORSHIP!

I have heard from sources familiar with the matter, that Paul Hastings has already decided to offer only 50% of its summer associates full-time positions with a chance if the economy to hire more (but in no case greater than 60%).

This isn't really anything new. Even when a summer is doing work for a client, it's almost all redone and written off regardless.

Thinking back on my summer associate experience, I wish there was some way to check, but I bet I didn't get more than 20-30 hours actually billed to a client.

Fake removed comment, 98? What's the point?

As long as they aren't being given the assignment under some falsehood (like that it's a real assignment), then who cares? Better then have them surf ATL all day.

103, they are given an assignment under some falsehood. That's the problem.

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We were definitely doing this at PHJW the past two summers (we were slow before slow was cool), but didn't do it to my knowledge the summer before. Summers are definitely smart enough to figure it out, yet we had to keep lying to them.

Plenty of summer work is make-work (e.g., 50-state surveys, research for an article that will never be written, revising slides that have been revised 10 times already, case law summaries that will be emailed to a department and promptly "filed" by all recipients), but the difference recently is completely made-up assignments (for deals or cases that have already happened/closed, or have never happened).

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Summer associates at Dewey & LeBoeuf beware...If if you are one of the few to receive an offer this summer, a bit of information to forewarn you about what you are getting into. I heard that the offer rate this summer is only going to be close to 50%, so many of you will not have to worry about this anyway. Dewey & LeBoeuf is notorious for using its associates for a few years and then firing them based upon false "poor performance" reviews. Whatever partner fires you will tell you in the meeting that they have spoken with the partners you have been working with and that your work is not up to your class level, thus creating reason for your termination. This is complete bullshit. In many cases, partners who the associate may have done excellent work for but are not powerful partners in the firm, are never consulted in the decision. In fact, once you are fired, those partners who may be your mentors will likely have not been part of this decision and are informed after the fact. It is quite simply a popularity contest. If you are liked by the key partners at Dewey & LeBoeuf (which are a few assholes), you will be kept on despite your intelligence and capabilities. So, the morale of the story, make sure you know who is important, go work form them and be liked by them. Unfortunately though, even that will not necessarily safe you. Good luck!!! Oh, also while you are there this summer, try to stop by the conference room completely filled with paper by the partner who has a hoarding condition. It is amazing what firms will tolerate in their partners but yet associates are shown the door based on circumstantial evidence. Dewey and LeBoeuf might simply be the most unprofessional law firm in New York City. Don't say you were not warned!

Summer associates at Dewey & LeBoeuf beware...If if you are one of the few to receive an offer this summer, a bit of information to forewarn you about what you are getting into. I heard that the offer rate this summer is only going to be close to 50%, so many of you will not have to worry about this anyway. Dewey & LeBoeuf is notorious for using its associates for a few years and then firing them based upon false "poor performance" reviews. Whatever partner fires you will tell you in the meeting that they have spoken with the partners you have been working with and that your work is not up to your class level, thus creating reason for your termination. This is complete bullshit. In many cases, partners who the associate may have done excellent work for but are not powerful partners in the firm, are never consulted in the decision. In fact, once you are fired, those partners who may be your mentors will likely have not been part of this decision and are informed after the fact. It is quite simply a popularity contest. If you are liked by the key partners at Dewey & LeBoeuf (which are a few assholes), you will be kept on despite your intelligence and capabilities. So, the morale of the story, make sure you know who is important, go work form them and be liked by them. Unfortunately though, even that will not necessarily safe you. Good luck!!! Oh, also while you are there this summer, try to stop by the conference room completely filled with paper by the partner who has a hoarding condition. It is amazing what firms will tolerate in their partners but yet associates are shown the door based on circumstantial evidence. Dewey and LeBoeuf might simply be the most unprofessional law firm in New York City. Don't say you were not warned!

^ Deserved termination.

wowwww, 22 are you really that pathetic? Do you feel so inferior at whatever firm you are from that you sit and pray for things to go down that make Cravath look bad. I don't even work at Cravath and I can't help but notice the ridiculous enmity on this website for Cravath. What is you people's problems? The more you go into an uproar over everything Cravath does, the more it proves to them that they are the best firm and that everybody is obsessed with them. Do what I, and every other sensible person does, and just treat them like they are like every other firm and stop nitpicking. I can't blame any of my Cravath friends for being self-important douchebags mostly because of low-self-esteem douchebags like you.

Better than having them sitting around doing nothing at all. There is no work for the full-time associates, much less for the kids on their summer holidays.

It would be better to have them do pro bono, they may even help somebody, but given it's biglaw that's a longshot.

108 is correct. Right down to the hoarding partner (who was put in a conference room when his office was too trashed but now he's clogged that up too). Anyhow, low summer offers will be a problem but even worse will be the partner defections, meaning layoffs for the associates they leave behind.

IGood idea to keep the summers doing memos. Their writing always sucks. No analysis; 3 pages of statutes regurgitated verbatim. With the slow down, I now have time to edit their memos and explain why. And send them back to add more analysis, etc. At the end of the summer, they are ready to be useful (billable) and they're also more confident with their skills. This is how slow associates with good writing skills should be used this summer - as writing mentors. Stubborn summers who are too lazy to revise work product to make it top notch: they shouldn't get offers.

Good way to evaluate research/writing/analytical skills. Firms need to evaluate each SA's ability and you can't always count on there being a real, finite yet complex issue presented by a real client just as the SA miraculously comes looking for a writing assignment. Thus, "our client would like you to prepare a memo on the meaning of the term 'several liability' as it stands on its own in the context of indemnification in a tripartite agreement, by next Friday if you could. Thanks."

Tell Paul Weiss to update the SUSHI MEMO!!!!

This type of work is Cruel & Boring....

McKenna Long & Aldridge does this as part of their summer program. And they seemed pretty desperate for work in my office.

McKenna Long & Aldridge does this as part of their summer program, a nationwide program for all offices. And they seemed pretty desperate for work in my office.

McKenna Long & Aldridge does this as part of their summer program, a nationwide program for all offices. And they seemed pretty desperate for work in my office.

Sounds a lot like Sheppard to me...

I've been getting real work pretty much all summer. Guess that's a good thing.

108 got fired from dewey for not knowing the difference between "morale" and "moral," or "safe" and "save"

Go to hell, PE. You are a cretin.

I've heard rumors of summers at Dewey wearing suits every day because they are so scared.

Can I get confirmation on this?

123, whateva!!!

125, I am at Dewey and it is true...summers are scared shitless..no one is safe.

wow. makes me feel a lot better about my firm. i am not doing "fake assignments," and I've billed a ton of hours to clients at my NYC V50.

Simpson Thacher is doing this... They sent an email to partners recently asking them "to be creative" in making assignments due to the low level of activity at the firm.

Gibson Dunn was king of the 50 state survey last year. This year I imagine it's worse.