2009 Associate Survey
Yesterday, American Lawyer released the results of its annual survey of midlevel associates. Morale is about what you would expect from postal workers applying for a gun permit, not upwardly mobile white collar workers. But the results should surprise no one:
Associate morale plummeted to the lowest level in five years (since we started asking about it). It fell from a rating of 3.1 last year, on a scale of 1 to 5, to 2.7. The drop is clearly related to job insecurity. Eighty-three percent of our respondents reported medium or high anxiety about losing their jobs. The midlevels had good reason to be concerned. Sixty-one percent said that their firms had layoffs. And, for those who kept their jobs, there wasn’t enough to do. As early as last year, one-third of associates saw a drop-off in their workload, and this year 46 percent said it had decreased.
But it’s not just job security that is making Biglaw associates blue. The pay cuts don’t just hurt associates’ bottom line, they make associates feel less valuable:
Many survey respondents were also disappointed with their firms’ pay cuts, reduced or nonexistent bonuses, and decreased benefits. They were also troubled by what they saw as a lack of transparency on financial issues and layoffs.
After the jump, let’s look at the firms where midlevels are least miserable, and the firms that should consider adding Lexapro to the vending machines.
Overall, there were some Biglaw firms that scored very high with midlevels. Nutter McClennen was the top firm overall. But here are the top five AmLaw 100 firms for midlevel satisfaction:
Gibson Dunn
Ropes & Gray
Debevoise & Plimpton
Finnegan Henderson
Wachtell
If you work at these firms and are slightly displeased, please know that things could be a lot worse.
And speaking of worse, let’s look at the bottom five AmLaw 100 firms according to the survey:
Kaye Scholer
Greenberg Traurig
Winston & Strawn
Katten Muchin
White & Case
You know, in this market the bottom five could be the big winners. Hey, it’s not like firms want to attract new talent and retain fungible associates. The lack of associate attrition is one of the factors that has been driving the layoffs.
We’re listening to what midlevel associates are saying. We’ll see if managing partners are listening too.
A Year To Forget [American Lawyer]
Associates Survey 2009: Results by Size - Am Law 100 and Global 100 Firms [American Lawyer]
Associates Survey 2009: National Rankings [American Lawyer]
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Comments
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Fourst
It's only a matter of time until we are all on the street.
What's up with Arnold and Porter?
Debevoise does not surprise me as a place to find satisfied midlevels, but Wachtell does. But then I suppose no one goes to Wachtell without expecting/wanting to work 120 hours per week, so as long as there are no other firm cultural issues that dent morale, a guy who went there with his eyes wide open could be pretty happy.
PE, how is morale at peer firms?
White In Case You Didn't Know
I bet the Gibson summers are pretty excited about this...
4 = PE
Gibson is awesome. Enough said.
Frank Stallone thinks that this survey is overrated.
--Frank Stallone
Even after all the signs, people are still so damn optimistic. They will need to be hit harder still if reality is ever to take root.
Patterson Belknap #1 in New York, #3 national. Patterson to 190k!
too depressed, didn't read.
Milbank should be right next to White and Case. Morale has never been lower. Work had picked up a bit, but there is still not enough to go around. And the partners have made it clear who their favorites are.
Latham and Proskauer are tied at 79, both dropped like stones from '08. Gee, wonder why............
I have never heard of any of these firms.
Come on, ATL, get the real story--how these rankings are meaningless. Latham had <30% of associates return surveys. How in the world can that be an indication of morale?
Q: According to this same survey done in 2007, what was the highest ranked firm in NYC?
A: Latham & Watkins
See http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202423417920
Need I say more about this survey?
You have a typo: It is Greenberg Traurig (not Taurig).
Interesting point 17, although one name in the top 5 in 07 is the same as the top 5 this year.
Assuming they all give close to 100% offers to summers, these should be top five most in-demand firms at interview programs this August/September:
Wachtell
Davis Polk
Cleary
Debevoise
Gibson Dunn
No attorney layoffs (that we know of), no deferrals of first years into 2010 (yet), and no deferrals of summers (yet).
The car be floating.
-Jon Bovi
DPW stealth layoffs occurring since January. They are called "performance based" firings and then the individuals are give three months severance. They are also still going on, as recent as last week. Gimmeabreak.
How is Gibson doing so well?
I think Law.com has even less bandwidth than this crappy site as if anyone knew that were even possible... what? don't most sites take five minutes to post a comment??
Paul Weiss needs to be included in any "good firm list" for now.
19 -
One out of five being the same in 2007 & 2009 is not a sign of consistency. Just imagine that for law school ranking.
Associates at some firms must have thought the survey was about associate self-satisfaction. Thus the results.
26-
True, but I suppose it's a sign of consistency for the one firm. A survey that ranks firms based on a such a varying response percentage is not very scientific anyway.
These results were probably dragged down somewhat by the responses of the associate who made the zillion dollar typo.
The water is great over, too bad you can't come in.
Skadden Secure
28: The consistency is the pressure that the one firm puts on its associates to fill out the survey and give it high marks...wait, no firm would do that.
Got to love the drop by Thompson Hine...Rogue Associate is not just spewing spite.
Where does the V10 fall for associate satisfaction?
Agree with 16/17. This survey has flawed methodology that skews on both the upside and downside. I know of firms that consiously manipulate this stuff (and Vault, too) by leaning on favored midyears to submit favorable responses--that's a hard blandishment to resist, whether you're a nervous mid year or not. This is just AmLaw trying to sell more magazines--rely on this data at your peril.
Anyone have a feeling of the top DC firms right now, similar to 20's list for NYC?
Gibson sucks, but they forcefully and shamelessly plead with their lawyers to give them fives, claiming that "if you don't hate us, 5 is the correct response. If you're miserable, give us a 4. Nobody ever gives anything below a 4." At least that's what they did for the summer surveys.
That was on a 1 to five scale, obviously.
36--
My friend who summered at GDC had the same experience a few years back. Sounds like that's been their strategy for a while. I'm sure they're not alone, but I also don't think every firm does that.
It's odd that winston, a firm that never had open layoffs has such crappy morale. Is there just a constant stream of stealth firings going on over there or what?
2008-Gibson ranked 6th and Latham ranked 7th
2009-Gibson ranks 4th and Latham ranks 79th
Never Forget
Why do surveys like tihs. Who cares what little dipshit associates think about their jobs. They are paid to make money for partners, nothing else.
39 - Winston has always had crappy morale. I can never remember a time when they ranked high on these surveys.
41 - right on! they should learn their place and quit running off at the mouth....dipshits.
This shouldn't surprise anyone - working at a large firm, ANY large law firm, is a miserable job.
Whenever the pay is as high as it is, the field is no more than a race to the bottom to see who is willing to neglect their families and personal life the most. The most psychologically unhealthy people the industry are your competitors. No one can deny that the most successful people in our field are, paradoxically, the most miserable.
Vorys, Sater went from next to last to like 7th overall. That alone should show how worthless the survey is.
Forget happiness bitches, it's a thing of the past. Struggle through and hope you don't lose your mind...or spouse.
39- yes. steady stream of stealth layoffs.
36, i was a summer at gdc a few years back and they did the same thing to me. wouldn't be surprised at all if they're like that w/their associates too.
Good for Ropes. Like every company, I think management makes some missteps. However, I do believe that Ropes' management genuinely cares about associate satisfaction. Communication has been much better in the last couple years. Good job Ropes - it's appreciated.
Top 10 Lists in NYC
2007
Latham & Watkins
Fish & Richardson
Alston & Bird
Crowell & Moring
Patterson Belknap
Covington & Burling
Cleary Gottlieb
McKee Nelson
Bracewell & Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
2009
Patterson Belknap
Ropes & Gray
Boies Schiller
Bryan Cave
Debevoise & Plimpton
Skadden
Wachtell
Cleary Gottlieb
Gibson Dunn
Wilmer
Draw your own conclusions.
Slightly disagree with 44. "Success," of course, is a relative term. If your definition of "sucess" is making as much money as you can, then yes, I agree. This is true in most other professional fields too.
However, I consider federal judges, law professors, and gov't attorneys in high-ranking positions to be pretty sucessful too, and I bet that most of them are not miserable...
PH summer here. We had a great summer, but we couldn't help noticing that in this office (NY) morale is totally in the crapper.
52- all of us at PH are feeling great. As soon you summers leave, we are all going to get shit canned. What could be better?
I am a Midlevel at Gibson, and they have never asked us to give any score on any survey. They might have mentioned how the scores usually end up past surveys so you understand how people score on average, but they are completely confidential, so I am not sure why anyone would be affected by that.
Where is Mayer Brown? I don't see any results for it . . .
52/53: It's a good thing the windows don't open here. That just might ruin the summers' "buzz."
51 - Agreed. I was using "our profession" to refer only to Biglaw, and "success" to refer to prestige and money (strictly outward signs of success).
If you work at a large firm, the person who is in charge of your department is probably miserable, even if only privately.
I would kill at the chance to be a judge or professor.
-44
The A&B ranking is a joke. It's based on the Fortune Magazine 100 Best Places to Work ranking, which itself is meaningless. The Fortune ranking is only based on companies that participate, and I believe that most of the Fortune 1000 do not even participate, let alone smaller firms in various economic sectors. It's a great marketing piece that allows the firm to promote the image of kinder, gentler BigLaw, but it's all smoke and mirrors. ATL has given A&B a free pass for what has been going on over here firmwide. There may be nothing to report that isn't the same everywhere else, but when I see A&B consistently ranked high in associate satisfaction I can't imagine what must be going on in other firms. Morale couldn't be lower.
This survey is utter BS... Winston belongs dead last.
The new associates last year turned out to be Children of the Corn and there is no reason to think this year's will be any better.
44/57 --
Agree completely, and I understand that, at least on a website that focuses pretty much exclusively on big law, success is defined by prestige of firm and money.
As a former biglaw associate, I think its a shame that more people -- and particularly law schools -- don't emphasize that there is more to the legal profession than big law. A lot of attorneys are very successful and do very well that do not practice in a big law setting. They may not rake in a seven-figure salarly, but they live incredibily well and seem to be much happier with their "lot in life."
But, I know, those law schools in to impress USNWR with that average starting salary.
51
"Morale is about what you would expect from postal workers applying for a gun permit, not upwardly mobile white collar workers."
Nice.
56: PHJW NY is the worst shithole of them all. Summers beware!
I was stealth laid off by one of the firms in the bottom 5. While I was still 'working' there and looking for a new job I was asked to fill out this survey. Needless to say I'm not surprised at the results.
62: The little pervert in the corner office on 14 doesn't help matters. We are not buying his bs.
52 - Another PHJW sa. Yes, great if you like smoke and mirrors.
64 - That lecherous litttle prick needs some saltpeter on his cornflakes.
vince,
morale at katten sucks. why is this? because of how you have acted and reacted to the crisis. i know you read this blog, as you referred to half skaddens in our april meeting, so hopefully you will read this letter for what it is - an honest breakdown of what is wrong, and something i wish i knew you well enough to say face to face.
chicago treats us in new york very badly. we are kept out of the loop and babysat. key clients are not shared when it makes sense. you have forced us to carry part of the chicago marketing budget. how can we associates develop business without funding?
good people are getting let go, while useless income partners remain. good associates are being held bad, while useless income partners remain. re associates are becoming litigators, but useless income partners remain. you get the picture.
i, and i think most fellow katten lawyers, understand people let go. lets be honest about it (over 40 gone??), and let merit impact things. if a partner can not carry their weight, get rid of them before the 2nd year who bought your bs about culture.
also, explain to me how my pay went down but my billing rate went up? we are in a recession, is it so hard to bill creativly. how can a mid level associate add value if our rates go up? i must have missed something, but didn't i freeze in years?
also, the pay cut makes no sense. i am not in real estate, i made my hours, but i took christmas vacation so i did not bill 150 in december - and i get cut!!??!! and you promise to pay me at the end of the year, didn't we get rid of that 7 years ago? we have 5th year assoicate earning what they did as 2nd years. it has to change. i am ready to leave, and many in my group will go also.
what we need is to rid ourselves of useless partners, change payscale ($145 ny, $130 chi, dc, la, $115 cha), cut billing rates, end lockstep, give ny its balls back.
65 - He does! I caught him leering at a group of female SAs getting bagels on 7 one Friday morning. Way to show them what this firm is all about! This little bean counting prick makes my skin crawl with his unctuous "nice guy" act.
67: He told someone that no more than half of the summers will get offers.
68: That was 2 months ago. The current figure is 25%.
I'm at Finnegan and the associate morale right now is pretty low. The HR apparatus and managing partner constantly hound people to respond positively to these surveys.
Katten NY: the firm that has to put signs on the bathroom asking people to please flush the toilet.
Lol.
66, you make some good comments, but I think you are a little harsh. I think the firm is trying to come to a balance, but I think they were unaware how unhappy some of their decisions made us.
But lets be honest, this is about pay, pure and simple. I was fine with a freeze, and would be happy with a sensible reduction, but this general cut makes no sense. I agree we should go back to a new base, but it won't happen as that would be a pay rise for most of us now.
Also, while I agree there are income partners who should be cast out before associates, how do you calculate it? Based on what they did in the past year, the past 2 years? That is not really fair.
I don't want to go somewhere else, but in Chicago we work as hard as anyone, but are paid less. This needs to end.
50, not trying to be funny, but what point are you trying to make?
I think you'll see a lot of interest in mid-size, regional, big law (500-800). A lot of those firms did well in the surveys, and avoided having to do anything negative to associates. All this with a billable requirement under 2,000, and comparable pay. 130,000-145,000. The trade off is no Chicago, NYC, or LA, but it's a choice one makes.