"its a deathmatch between and every other student."

??

"....its a deathmatch between and every other student. "

Do you ever bother to read these over?

PW hires tons of hot Canadians...not surprised they are still doing OCI there. It's a gold mine of beautiful people with cute accents.

"That's not competition, its a deathmatch between and every other student. "

PROOFREADING IS NOT HARD.

Fo Shizzle. How about a bar-review posting on ATL? Freakout has begun. I've been studying solid 6 hours a day for two months. Nothing left in the tank. Only doing one state (New England, not NY). Thoughts? Know that I value the opinions of the commenters here at ATL like you all are old friends.

I've heard the Canadian Mounties are hiring

Elie you are a waste of space on this earth.

Good! Why should we have to compete with these canucks who don't even learn American Law.

I mean, sure, they may have the option to take American Civ Pro and I bet corporations is similar in a lot of respects.

But, it's still ridiculous that we have to compete with them. McGill is a very good school. But if you want to practice law in the US and you're Canadian, just go to an American law school.

I call bs on 4: http://www.paulweiss.com/lawyers/List.aspx?Schools=a9bafb9f-2497-4b65-9d22-3cde417b8bff

that's 4 firms too many! WTF are NY firms doing in there, like there aren't enough good law schools just in NY alone

I'm a McGill 2L summering at Orrick. Should I be worried about this?

6- go see a movie.

Why is McGill still around???

U of T SECURE

CANADA = IRRELEVANT

Yeah Ropes, going strong! Defer everyone until 2025, and go to Canada to get more people to push back to 3000!

Latham fired 211% of their associates.

Latham fired every first year associate in the NY office that didn’t pass the bar, except the second cousin of a Hong Kong paralegal (I wonder why THAT happened!?!)

Latham ruined my career by forcing me to spend all day on legal blogs feeling sorry for myself instead of looking for a job.

-Never Been Laid Laid-Off Self-Pitying Former 4-Month Year Associate

9 - you're a moron and a coward

Don't you want to compete with the best of the best?

Shouldn't global firms be hiring the best global talent?

Do you really think studying law at some TTT US piece of crap school better prepares you for international corporate law than a top 3 school in any other country in the world?

Go back to your cave with Scalia and Lou Dobbs, the big kids need to get to work...

This information is false. There are more than 4 firms coming. Also, we have CANADIAN firms that come as well, which are not laying off en masse.

Class of 2011 is the lost generation.

Don't understand. Is the tipster saying only 4 US firms are attending OCI this year, or only 4 firms, total? If the former, then "our little legal meltdown" is not "spreading fear and decreased job prospects to our neighbors up north" -- we're still talking about the US job market If the latter and McGill has only 4 firms total coming to OCI Canada is in a lot more trouble than the US. (This argument assumes that Canadian law firms conduct on-campus interviewing. If Canadian firms do not conduct on-campus interviewing, then a grand total of 4 firms on campus means precisely nothing for the Canadian job market.)

So what's the point here? That the US legal market sucks? I think we knew that already. If the post is intended to say something about the Canadian legal market, I have no idea what that might be.

I still miss the hot babes in Montreal.

4 - Both Shearman and Paul Weiss have been hiring tons of hot Canadians for years.

I think they head up North to poach the best talent rather than trawling for bottom feeders at lower ranked US schools...

Just like my TTT - 5 "biglaw" firms interview here, and they're all from my flyover state.

Elie,

Your pedigree of Harvard and Debevoise indicates to me that you are very smart and once performed at a high level. However; your carelessness with editing indicates to me that your thought process has slowed, much like an alcoholic. If you need treatment, ATL likely has to reasonably accomodate your disability. Therefore, your job will be waiting for you after treatment. Get better.

10 -- RIGHT, because the ONLY law school in Canada is McGill. Fail.

Didn't say tons from McGill, said from Canada.

- 4

WTF? McGill isn't even that highly ranked a Canadian law school - much higher reputation outside Canada than within...

What really matters is what's going on at the University of Toronto...

Any updates?

Canadian law is based on the Code of the Beaver.

It does not travel well.

@18,

You're stupid. And you use strawman arguments.

"Do you really think studying law at some TTT US piece of crap school better prepares you for international corporate law than a top 3 school in any other country in the world?"

Who said anything about a TTT? If I could have one more person from say Fordham, over a McGill person, I'd take the Fordham. I'm not saying, I'd take Cooley over McGill.

My point is that, they're not studying American Law. If someone's a hot shot at a top 3 school from Canada or wherever, then they should at least get an American LLM. But if you want to practice in the US, you should go to an ABA accredited law school. This happens to be the position of 49 out of 50 state bar associations (I think).

If I want to practice law in Canada, wouldn't it make sense to study Canadian law?

9.

10 - There's more than one law school in Canada

http://www.paulweiss.com/lawyers/List.aspx?Schools=9140454d-64b8-4211-834d-dab7ffd4b7a3

@ 29

Clearly you don't know anyone from Fordham then.

Comment removed by moderator.

27 - where do you get your facts? McGill and UofT are the best schools in Canada by far. They offer different things but are both top notch. You must be bitter bc you couldn't get into a top ranked school.

cheers.

9 - you are so funny. You think you are learning only American Law? Get your head out of your ass buddy - it's common law, from ENGLAND - and we learn it too.

Idiot.

Elie,

Check out reactions from the gates scandal in Cambridge.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/should_the_pres.html

What's the big deal? Why does everyone complain about the job market? Just get a non-legal job

29 - actually there are at least 3 states that let Canadian law graduates take the bar - NY, CA and MA. The only area of Canadian law that departs substantially from American is constitutional law, and who needs that for biglaw anyway. The bottom line is that a good Canadian legal education prepares you for the practice of law in the US just as well as an American education, you just have to study a bit harder for the bar.

- U of T grad who has practiced for 10 years in US

pretty ridiculous post. believe it or not, most canadian law students want to practice in canada. that four u.s. firms are recruiting on campus at mcgill means little, elie. even in boom times, perhaps 30 percent of students from mcgill or the university of toronto will apply to new york or boston firms. of those, maybe half will end up coming down for the summer. of those, maybe two thirds will return after 3l.

this is a new low in your search for fox-news-esque hysteria.

Our health care sysytem works just fine. If you want health care, GET A FUCKING JOB!!!!!

I know many Canadian lawyers in the United States. They are all wonderful, beautiful, brilliant people and I am proud to work with them.

29 - Thank God you're not in charge of the hiring for my firm!

A McGill or UofT law degree equates in prestige to Harvard/Yale/Stanford - look it up or ask around.

Canadians don't need a LLM to sit for the NY, Mass or CA bars, because those jurisdictions have actually researched and placed value on the education of Canadian applicants.

You're presumption that studying "American Law" makes someone a more effective practicing lawyer in the global marketplace is where you fail..epically

Comment removed by moderator.

Agreed 38

America Junior has law schools? WTF? Next you'll be telling me they have "roads" and "air planes." Ridiculous.

33-

Canadian lawyers suck and are pansies. I once went up to a trial competition in Toronto and kicked the shit out of Canadian law students. They were pathetic and a complete joke.

"Our health care sysytem works just fine. If you want health care, GET A FUCKING JOB!!!!!"

Yes sir, Mr. Bush!

2,3,5,25 -

Apparently you did not realize that Elie wrote this post in Canadian, not English. The English translation follows, with the changes indicated in CAPS:

"It looks like our little legal meltdown is spreading fear and decreased job prospects to our neighbors up north. A tipster reports that rising 2Ls at McGill Law School are having the same problems as RISING 2LS AT schools in the states:
I know things have been tough AT lots of top American law schools, but imagine only havING four firms to interview with. That's not competition, IT'S a deathmatch between you and every other student.

Good luck, Canucks. You might not get legal jobs in America, but apparently you'll always have a health care system that works better than ours."

Harvard is the McGill of the South

It's so cute that law students think that the "American law" they're learning in U.S. law schools (not Barbri) will have any actual relevance to their legal practice in real life.

40,

I asked around - responses:

1. What a McGill?
2. university of texas has a pretty good law school, its no harvard though.

Um, 49, University of Texas stole "U of T" from University of Tennesee

49 - it's "the UofT" not "UT"

sheesh

I suppose that I should know the answer to this question, but is McGill Law School accredited by the American Bar Association?

McGill is a great school - but don't feel too bad for the students. Do you know what a year of McGill law costs for an in-province resident? $3500 - add to that free health care and financially, these guys do OK (they do have to put up with the snow and French though).

52, No. Only US schools are ABA-approved.

more like UofTTT

53 -- shhhh. This is supposed to be a secret! Don't want the firms to realize how little debt we have....

I spent a year in Canada. While there, I broke my leg and had to wait 6 months for a cast.

56 - lol, wait, debt?! Who has law school debt? my three years of law school in Canada cost me $15K - total, not per semester.

canadian men are hot and in my experience, the "real" canadian ones are well endowed. no i don't mean the immigrant ones who just use canada as a stepping stone to the US

Who cares if only 4 NY offices do McGill OCI. Plenty of Canadian firms are still hiring there.

The future of health care in America:

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!

By the way, the McGill class is 170 people, and not everyone wants to go work in NY afterwards. Some people do, some people stay in Quebec, some people go to Toronto, and countless go elsewhere.

So while it's true that this year will likely be more competitive, it's not like the whole class is fighting for the same 4 positions.

As for the person saying that if you want to practice in the States you should study in the States, it's a very narrow view of the world, of legal education, etc.

But do they speak American? Won't they need remedial languages classes?

canadian men are hot and in my experience, the "real" canadian ones are well endowed. no i don't mean the immigrant ones who just use canada as a stepping stone to the US

It's pointless to hire out of US attorneys. Legal market is flooded with highly qualified attorneys, from schools people have heard of, and honestly, the whole argument of "it's the harvard of Canada" is like saying India is the NYC of the third world.

Doesn't really carry much weight.

Finally, the corporate global transaction argument is pointless. They don't learn international business transactions any differently than students taking similar courses in the US. And none of those students really learn anything. Further, it's not like Canada is a powerhouse of industry or anything remotely close to that.

In these times, with recessions and layoffs and salary reductions, I find it ridiculous schools even recruit from somewhere where they offer to pay $5K relocation fees. Just get someone in NY and possibly save 2 months worth of salary for an associate. Same argument for why I think the entire summer associate program is a waste of money.
Besides, half the kids from out of state who want NYC biglaw end of leaving within a few years anyways and just end up wasting money.

CANADA LAW SCHOOLS ARE PIECES OF SHIT. I WILL BE 150K IN DEBT SO I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR LACK OF DEBT. GOT IT? YOUR COUNTY IS PATHETIC AND HAS BEEN PIGGYBACKING OFF OF MY COUNTRY FOR WAY TOO LONG. CANADIANS SHOULD BE DELEGATED TO CANADA.

"This information is false. There are more than 4 firms coming. Also, we have CANADIAN firms that come as well, which are not laying off en masse."

Yes. This post is ridiculous.

Elie - if you think that the Canadian heath care system is better than that in the US, your are sadly mistaken. It is better only in the sense that all have coverage - everyone has the same crappy coverage.

Every province has lost a significant number of doctors who have moved to the US seeking less oversight and better economic prospects. In most provinces there is a shortage of primary care physicians, and long waiting lists to become a patient of a primary care physician - you read this right, a waiting list to become a PATIENT, not to get an appointment or have a procedure. My 80+ year old mother and step-father have not had a primary care physician since their last dr. - 70 years old with one eye - retired last year; my step-father has no specialist for his diabetes. And no, don;'t start the Canadian jokes: they live in a city of over 200,000 people, not in bumblefuck.

So, Elie, check your facts. We do need health care reform of some kind, but don't hold out the Canadian system as a model of successful socialism. If you want Obamacare or Pelosicare, what you get will may well be worse than what now exists in Canada, because the current proposal is a witches brew with too many interest groups stirring the pot.

Former Canadian and now a US citizen, socialist at heart, and damn proud of it.

further evidence ropes & gray remains firmly lodged in la la land...stiffing incomings on $/benefits and going boldly into the future...

Really, 4? PW appears to have about 5 canadians. One of them is female (no pic)

nice try tho

66 - Why is my county pathetic? It is worse than your typing?

Does writing in ALL CAPS make your argument stronger or is it just easier to read while you mouth out the words?

Do you see how your ignorance informs your attitudes, your presentation and your arguments?

Now, play nice, or someone is going to suggest you be delegated back to sandbox.

Leonard V. Qiugley "made" (in every interpretation of the word - every single one) the Canadian practice at Paul Weiss (which is the best, IMHO). He was not only a good man and great lawyer, but one of the greatest teachers of basic fact and logic I have ever seen. The Canadian practice at Paul Weiss owe their homes to him. Yes, he was that quiet and that good. He also made it a priority to recruit from Canadian law schools.

Ropes & Gray, along with Latham, sucks!

72 - if PW's Canadian practice is the best, then why doensn't PW have an office in Canada like Shearman or Skadden?

Oh - that's right, PW's scared of ticking off the local firms who refer them their Canadian work...

PW's Canadian practice would be even more impressive if they weren't so reliant on middlemen...

All of us may have different views on the merit of a Canadian education but if I may summarise all of your posts, it seems all of you speak with one voice on one inalienable truth: the Class of 2011 is the lost generation.

72 - I was just saluting a good person , who weened me. And, if you do Canadian work (oil, rock, etc.. - Teck, Pan Canadian, Oil Sands) and have been opposite the table, you'd know why. I'm not remarking on perception, just remebering a friend. (But, I have to say, PW, IMHO, is the best (matched nearly by S&C).

70 -- you are an idiot. Not that many from McGill, but tons from other Canadian schools.

@64, who wrote "in my experience, the "real" canadian ones are well endowed":

How many real Canadian men have you experienced? Just want to know what sample size we are dealing with for your sampling of sizes.

Twenty? Thirty? Forty? Don't know if you are male or female, but either way, you appear to be a cheap slut with a Canadian fetish.

Whoever wrote the story needs to get their facts straight. Law firms do not have to pay extra for visas. Well, not for the first three years anyway. A TN visa (NAFTA) allows lawyers to work in the US; the cost falls on the applicant (the worker). It's $50.
And for the record, I am one of those Canadians who wants to practice in the US. I do attend a US school ... top 10. And I'm still screwed: 2L without a paying job, and going on 3L without hope.

The CC wonders aloud if Lat is finally recognizing Canada because of his killer posts on this blog. If so, he apologizes to all Canadians because clearly the ATL contributors are too myopic to really understand the glory of the great white north.

Let the Captain point out a few issues;

1) "It looks like our little legal meltdown is spreading fear and decreased job prospects to our neighbors up north"
Umm no, not at all. If anything this just shows how bad things are in the States. The Canadian firms are still hiring, and still doing OCIs. If anything the fact that only 4 US firms are coming to Canada shows how bad things are in the US and in no way shows that the decreased job prospects have spread up north. This stat shows that US firms are cutting back in hiring, feel that it is costly to travel ‘far’ away (say Canada) to hire and don't want to deal with visas and the State Department when hiring foreigners. All this shows how weak the US market is, in no way does it dictate the status of the Canadian market. Simply stating that fewer US firms are coming north indicates nothing about the status of Canadian legal market.

2) “Good luck, Canucks. You might not get legal jobs in America, but apparently you'll always have a health care system that works better than ours.”
Yes, our health care system is better, top doctors for all, not just top doctors for the rich and no doctors for the poor. You are right about this.
Regarding "Canucks not getting legal jobs in America". In part it is true. Yes that does suck that Canadians are not getting US jobs in the same numbers as before, but Captain Canuck finds it acceptable because American's are not getting those jobs either.

So in summary: Things in the US are still shitty. As a result there will be fewer hires to US law firms; this includes both American students and foreign students (e.g. Canadians). However, this factoid--that fewer US law firms are coming to Canada--has no bearing on the number of Canadian firms that are hiring.

If this sort of logic is typical of an American lawyer/student, I am worried.

-Bay Street is Awesome!

78 FTW!

U. of Washington law school has only 4 law firms coming for OCI.

Princeton Law School has 5 coming!

Where is Canada?

As a foreign-educated (ie. outside of US and Canada) working at a top NYC firm, I wanted to pose a few rhetorical questions in this, ahem, "debate". Firstly, why is the rhetoric from Americans, directed to fellow American and Canadian posters alike, so hateful? Secondly, why do the Canadian posters feel the need to engage these egregiously rude American posters? One thing that attracted me to the law, both study and practice, was its civility. Do you people speak like this to each other outside of cyberspace (and, outside of M & A and trial litigation? hahaha, small joke). Seriously, vitriolic blog commenting is like pounding sand. If you are going to comment, please add something constructive, of which you are knowledgeable about!

85 = PE

86- Didn't you just prove 85's point?

85 - Following your own advice, you shouldn't have posted. You lose!

$20/song and the most fun you'll ever have in the VIP of any men's club.

85 -- while I agree with your overall sentiment, it really does not apply often here at Abovethelaw, or anyplace where anonymous comments are allowed.

Also, you have no idea who really is Canadian or American, obviously. So it is all a bit moot. Just read the stories, see if you are amused or intrigued by some of the comments, move on with your day.

None of the posts are in French, so they must all be from Americans, aye.

65 - Excellent comparison, you moron:

"The whole argument of "it's the harvard of Canada" is like saying India is the NYC of the third world."

NYC is a CITY (that's what the "C" in NYC stands for, in case you've ever wondered). India is a COUNTRY.

Why not buy yourself an atlas? Perhaps a set of maps will also help you more easily distinguish your head from your a$$.

"American Law" does not exist, nor does "Canadian Law," both draw from the Common Law system. For some reason law students in the States don't seem to be educated in the history of their legal tradition. McGill Law provides a dual-degree, Common Law and Civil Law (an international legal system developed from the Napoleon Code). Like any respected top ten US law school, McGill does not teach the mechanics of laws per se, but is focused on theory and analysis; embracing law philosophy over the statute memorization exercises underlying the curriculum for non-top ten drones. All this to say that there is no underestimating the parochialism and xenophobia of our US brethren.

"American Law" does not exist, nor does "Canadian Law," both draw from the Common Law system. For some reason law students in the States don't seem to be educated in the history of their legal tradition. McGill Law provides a dual-degree, Common Law and Civil Law (an international legal system developed from the Napoleon Code). Like any respected top ten US law school, McGill does not teach the mechanics of laws per se, but is focused on theory and analysis; embracing legal philosophy over the statute memorization exercises underlying the curriculum for non-top ten drones. All this to say that there is no underestimating the parochialism and xenophobia of our US brethren.

90 -- You are right. In perusing some other stories here, I have to say that this is my first and last visit here. Why such intelligent people demean themselves and others in this way is repugnant to me (obviously, I engage very little of the blogosphere). In reading the posts, however, it is usually clear who is Canadian and who is American, so I feel that my positions stands.

86 -- Admittedly, it is poorly edited. I couldn't be bothered to proofread for this audience. But I hope you feel great about yourself for having taken the time to declare the obvious.

87 -- Thanks.

88 -- If you read the entirety of this "discussion" you will find that, generally-speaking, my statement is factual and in no substantial way transgresses my position. I presume you feel great about yourself though.

Goodbye and good riddance then, forever. Spending an hour of my sick day on this site has been a great reminder of why I make most of my friends outside of my profession.

I'm a U.S. citizen but working in Canada (Toronto, Ontario) as a lawyer. I had lived in Canada for some time and went to law school here (not McGill, Queen's in Kingston, Ontario). Although tuition has risen since I went, it's still much, much less expensive at almost all schools (I think U of T - Toronto - has the highest in the country at $20K+ annually and Queen's is around $10K per year). In case I ever wanted it I took Barbri and passed the NY bar no problem, became admitted as a patent attorney before the USPTO, etc. If I ever wanted to practice in the US I'd have to brush up on stuff but the same would apply if e.g. I was working in NY and wanted to move to another state. I certainly have a much better understanding of what a "Good Samaritan" law is than Elie, and he went to Harvard... [grin]

93 - I would add that the measure of whether one is fit to practice law in NY state is, practically speaking, the bar exam. McGill has a higher pass rate than any US school.

Who would pay 150K for an American school when you could land the same job at Cravath/DPW/Skadden out of McGill for 10K? Unfortunately, your US dollars are such garbage fiat money that I'd be better paid on bay street.

6 here. I went to a movie. Now what?

Hey, I have a great idea. Let's keep issuing work visas to Canadians so they can come to the United States and compete against American lawyers for nonexistent jobs.

Law is a self-regulating profession and the United States is--or is at least supposed to be--a self-regulating political entity. Nothing against Canadians, but the United States needs to be taking better care of Americans. There is no justification for leaving the flood gates open to foreign lawyers to take U.S. law jobs in the midst of a recession like this.

Signed,

A "xenophobe"

100 and 101, please pick up a basic economics textbook.

Signed, a Canadian lawyer in Canada who'd be more than happy to have you compete for any job up here.

REJECT, I know india is a goddamn country and NYC is a city. .

You are truly retarded, and you shame your people.
BTW, Freedom of Speech motherfucker! Don't be pissed at me because your country truly sucks and has an ungodly poverty rate yet a bunch of people with a ridiculous amount of wealth fueling a class system that is bound to collapse and result in anarchy. I bet you're from long island, only hang out with people of your own type, only wear Armani exchange, and think that "clubbin in the city" is dope don't you. You are disgusitng.

Foreign attorneys cost more $, are a hassle, and generally not worth it. I don't get why foreigners in America have this mentality that they are entiteld to American jobs as well. You don't see American's mass applying to jobs in Foreign markets, so why do we allow the same. Just crapt in my opinion.

103 - 96 again. If you make that many spelling mistakes in your work - not to mention cover letters - it's no wonder U.S. employers would rather hire someone else, even if foreign-educated.

Not to mention, there's this thing called NAFTA, which among other things specifically allows Canadians and Americans and Mexicans to work in each others' countries. You don't like it, fine, push for its repeal, but Americans benefit from the same provisions, mutatis mutandi.

103 - "You don't see American's mass applying to jobs in Foreign markets."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA...

You've obviously never been to London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, ah forget it...you don't know where these places are...

And even if we carve out the professionals, there's always Haliburton, Bush and Obama transferring American's to work in Guantanamo and the Middle East...

I guess it's all just "crapt"...

103 - please detail your experience in hiring foreign attorneys.

Besides a visa application that costs less than an average Summer Lunch, what are these extra costs?

Is the 56 minutes it takes on average to fill out the visa application the extent of the 'hassle' or are there other burdens? Too many funny accents maybe? Too many people who don't pronounce nuclear, "Nu-cue-lar?" Too many shades of skin-tone?

Why aren't foregin attorneys 'worth it'? You really think BigLaw operates on an affirmative aciton basis and gives out associate positions to those they don't value?

Or is all this just xenophobic whining from yet another local yokel who couldn't put up and now won't shut up?

I don't understand why some of you Americans feel so threatened? NYC firms have only ever done OCI's at three Canadian law schools: McGill, University of Toronto, and Osgoode Hall. The number of firms coming in have dropped at U of T and Osgoode this year as well. Also, Canadian grads are only eligible to write the bar in NY and MA anyway. So relax!

Im in ur c0untry
G3ttin ur j0bs

Suck it, n00bs

- Canadian law student in V5

I'm a Canadian.
A law degree from Univ of Toronto is equal in prestige to a law degree from Ogoode Hall, McGill, Ottawa, Univ of Western Ontario, Queen's, Albert, UBC. The schools in Canada are equally tough to get in. Unless your undergrad GPA is like a solid 3.7+, law schools don't even talk to you. Just to get in the door of the law profiession in Canada, the numbers need to talk. I find that there is a much heavier emphasis on the numbers in Canada than in the States. A more holistic approach I guess in the United States. I find that the American students are much more well-rounded than Canadians. American students also have more life experiences to show which contribute to the legal education.

FYI, the post did not make it clear that only 4 US LAW FIRMS are showing up at McGill (and 3 at Osgoode). Canadian firms are recruiting as usual. Oh and our recession is over: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/07/23/bank-canada-economy-recovery.html

Why is it over so soon? Because we have a good regulatory system; unlike you chumps wwith politicians in the pockets of corporations. Corporations that lose money having to comply with regulations. You see up here Corporations are banned from donating to political parties and campaigns eh.

Canada=America done the right way.

104 = FAIL.

NAFTA does not permit the free movement of labor among Canada, the United States, and Mexico.

Should Canadians be allowed to come into the United States and work when Americans are facing such a high rate of unemployment and a large amount of financial uncertainty?

112 - Should all Americans employed in Canada, the UK, Iraq, Afghanistan, Europe, Asia and annexed portions of Cuba be forced to return stateside, while these areas face unemployment and financial uncertainty?

109 - that's funny...show me the student who turned down their admisison to go to UofT and went to Queens.

Also - how exactly does the average Amercian student generate more life experience then the average Canadian student? By owning proportionately fewer passports, not drinking till they turn 21 or by signing up to ROTC?

109 nailed it.

113,

That policy decision should be reserved to the people of Canada.

American xenophobe

#114
what I am saying is : it doesn't matter where you go to law school. At first, Uof Toronto seems appealing because it is the #1 research univ in Canada (med, graduate, dental, pharmacy). But in the end, it doesn't matter where the hell you go to school. You get hired anyway. My friend from Ottawa Law just got a job on Bay Street. There are less than 20 English-speaking law schools in Canada, the schools are pretty much equal in terms of job prospects and etc.

For Life experiences, I think there are more opportunities for Americans do to internships because there are more organizations. I know students who used to intern at NIH and the Pentagon. I don' tknow any Canadian students who have had the chance to work with the CSIS or Canadian CDC. Even if there are, I have not heard of them. Owning passports does not mean more life experiences. You don't have to go out of your country to experience life.

I agree with 117 that owning passports does not mean more or better life experience.

109 is right re: law schools in Canada -- it's laughable/weird how US firms think McGill is any better than other schools. Kindoff an unmerited windfall for McGill vs other Cdn law schools.

109 is right re: law schools in Canada -- it's laughable/weird how US firms think McGill is any better than other schools. Kindoff an unmerited windfall for McGill vs other Cdn law schools.

The problem is that people ignorantly associate the reputation of a specific faculty with the general reputation of the entire school. McGill's law school is thought to be special because Americans have heard of McGill, perhaps because high school students from the north-eastern states go to undergrad there so they can drink at 18 and pay a third of the regular tuition. Don't get me wrong, it's a good school, but nothing special (except for having to be bilingual to get in and their unique transystemic program). They accept kids who haven't even gone to university though.

i have never been trained in the law...I have children that are lawyers with Biglaw and I enjoy your comments. However, I am thrown by you mentioning health care in Canada as better than ours. I have so many Canadian friends who must wait for surgery and have very little control over their health care that I had to speak to your cavalier comment....check it out. America has lots of health care issues but the Canadians are still trying to come to this county for procedures.

i have never been trained in the law...I have children that are lawyers with Biglaw and I enjoy your comments. However, I am thrown by you mentioning health care in Canada as better than ours. I have so many Canadian friends who must wait for surgery and have very little control over their health care that I had to speak to your cavalier comment....check it out. America has lots of health care issues but the Canadians are still trying to come to this county for procedures.

Overall, as a Canadian, I've always known that McGill is a solid school both for its undergrad, grad and professonal schools. It's a good school all the way. But there is no reason to think it's any more special than other Canadians school of equal caliber.

Yes i know many Americans in the northeast region (ie Vermont, NH) who went to McGill for undergrad. It's understandable because tuition at McGill is a joke. It's probably 1/20 of the tuition of a first year at even a SUNY school. McGill gives a solid education for 5% of the tuition tag. Why not take advantage?

Canadians are irrelevant.

-S&C

111 - I meant for lawyers, not everyone, de facto at least.

It's amazing how defensive the foreigners on this board are.

It's a simple fact that when times are tough there seems to be a tendency to hire within the U.S. With an unemployment rate nearing 10% nationwide and across the city, hiring in the US should and must be done from within.

What good is America sending aid and money to foreign countries if we cannot even take care of ourselvevs.

123,

Maybe you also want to share with us how many Americans go bankrupt every day because they can't pay medical bills or how many are denied coverage due to "existing conditions" or other great excuse invented by insurance companies to deny care.

Plus, the argument that people come to the States from Canada to get coverage misses the whole point. Canada spends far less per person on medical care and those that are coming are the ones that can afford it (or cases where the Gov sends people south). It's like saying cubans are so luck in terms of beaches, because, "look how many people go there from vacation" when in reality cubans aren't allowed there. Instead of looking at the numbers of Canadians that go south for treatment, start by looking at the number of uninsured and under-insured that can't benefit from those same services.

they took ARE jobs!

A Frenchman has just as much right to work as a lawyer in New York as an American does.

U of T, McGill and Osgoode Hall are traditionally viewed as the top rank of common law Canadian schools, which is why New York firms seeking talent rightfully recruit there. The rest (except for two or three others at the lower end) are generally more or less equal to each other and not far apart from the top three. Getting into any law school in Canada is much more difficult than getting into the U.S., as there are only about 20 schools north or the border and all of them (except the few I alluded to above) are good. This is the main reason many Canadians go to the U.S. or Australia for law school after not getting into their home country (except of course for the students who opt for a T14). We don't have any Cooley or Phoenix equivalents here.

Wow ... protectionism rearing its ugly head. How about this then: since canadian lawyers are allowed to work in the US per NAFTA, we just shred the treaty. No more canadian lawyers. Also, no more cheap oil, metals, wood and electricity. Deal?

132--

Please cite the alleged provision in NAFTA that allows Canadian lawyers to compete in the U.S. legal market as if they were American lawyers.

Canadian lawyers "allowed to work in the US per NAFTA"? I don't think so.

It seems the Canadian who posted comment 132 inadvertently disclosed he is working here illegally.

131 is wrong. If you want to do corp law, UT has a slight edge but neither Osgoode nor McGill has anything over any of the others. I got in everywhere and didn't even consider Osgoode or McGill (and didn't end up going to UT but did consider it).

Where did you go 136?

I went to Alberta.

I went to Alberta.

LMAO @ 136! The fact that you go to Alberta explains a lot!

133-135:
http://www.grasmick.com/nafta.htm#3.2B%20TN-1%20STATUS:%20FREE
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