Second

This would never happen at FAMU.

Are you kidding about the old lady?

She may have been racial profiling, sure. Who knows how racist some random old woman is.

But fact is she saw two people trying to force a door open. Whether she assumed certain things cause they were black is irrelevant. She was totally justified in calling the cops.

Her biggest "guilt" is not knowing who her neighbors are. She may be racist (who knows on the limited facts we have) but that's not a crime.

I hate this guy. Fuck him and his race card.

1 - Give yourself enough time to sleep at least 4 hours. DO NOT study the morning of the exam. All studying on a particular part of the exam should end the night before you take that part (MBE, MPT, etc.). On the day of the exam, DO NOT even think you'll have time to cram at the test site - Bar/Bri books don't fit into those tiny ziploc bags anyway. Also, DO NOT be tempted to discuss exam questions during lunch or on the way out. Good luck.

what are you talking about? found guilty of what? reporting a (non)crime?

Do you mean liable?

Not that I hold you guys to a high standard, but this is probably one of the least thought out articles I have seen on ATL.

MysTTTal strikes again. Thanks for linking to your shitty blog

6 - what are you talking about? Four hours of sleep? This is a marathon, not a sprint. #1, you've probably been studying for 6-8 weeks already. Those last few hours will only make you frantic. My suggestion is you stop no later than 9pm the day before, get a full night's sleep, wake up in time to have breakfast and collect your thoughts, then go take the damn thing.

If you want to do additional work the morning of, the only thing I've ever heard of that seems reasonable is some people will make a 1 page list of things that seem to trip them up the most in practice questions. Re-read that if it'll give you some comfort about what you need to know. But don't treat the morning like a final cram session, you'll just jeopardize the weeks of work you've already put in.

Dr. Soul...Count Chocula...

How in the christ this this fat fuck Elie get into Harvard...twice?

Bullshit. i crammed until 4 Am the morning before the bar exam and I did fine and i even drove to NJ later that day to take their exam the following day.

The most important advice is to either brownbag your lunch or else order lunch to be ready for you to takeout (if you're taking it at a hotel). there will be a mob scene at the hotel resty for lunch.

Actually most of the home burglaries that took place where I grew up were in the middle of the day. I'm sure if they were white, asian or anything else the same thing would have happened...

4 has it pretty much. Elie, your ramblings about racism on the True/Slant webrag are totally off-base and idiotic. Are you on a KrispyKreme-inspired sugar high that has you delirious, or what?

A woman sees 2 guys trying to break into a house by forcing the door. If I lived in the neighborhood, I would want ANY neighbor or passerby to call the cops upon witnessing that. I have no idea what the "backpacks" add to the racism angle, but hey, criminals might use backpacks to carry stolen items they pick up after breaking in.

In broad daylight? Lots of crap like this happens in broad daylight. And will continue to as long as witnesses DON'T call the cops.

The race of the people is not even critical. If I saw this scene, with 2 people of ANY race/ethnicity breaking into a front door, I'd alert authorities.

There was a cab out front? So? It probably looked *just* like another parked vehicle. Someone rides by in a cab and sees 2 people breaking through a front door, and they're supposed to analyze whether the people may be associated with an empty cab parked in front, which may also be some distance from the door being broken into? Get real.

The old lady should have helped? I wouldn't shout out at people who are committing an apparent break-in. I would call the cops and let them handle it if that's an option.

Get a clue Elie. You are WAY off base with your ramblings. The old lady DID THE RIGHT THING BY CALLING THE COPS BECAUSE SHE SAW A COUPLE OF GUYS BREAKING INTO A FRONT DOOR. Sheesh.

http://trueslant.com/eliemystal/2009/07/22/gatesgate-racism-101/

Elie's got an interesting take on this.

"But she wasn’t being a good neighbor, she was being a racist neighbor. She didn’t call the cops just because the men were black. I’m sure if there were two black men standing on Gates’s porch holding cardboard signs begging for food, she wouldn’t even have noticed them. Instead she called the cops because the men’s blackness prevented her from thinking like a rational adult."

MysTTTal is a race-baiting idiot

This deserves some sort of explanation:

"Of course, I have my own take. But instead of focusing on the arresting police officers, I'm interested in the the white lady who called the cops in the first place, and whether she'd be found liable under various theories of good Samaritan laws. I don't think she met the "reasonable person" standard"

What in holy hell are you talking about? Guilty of what? good Samaritan what? Reasonable person standard what?

Are you kidding me, how difficult is it to make a halfway rational point, that was goddamn jibberish.

Mystal has his period. Go easy on him.

Great, along with Thio-breaker, can we now have a spinoff Gates-breaker to take care of all the "updates" on the same story?

1,

Tattoo the bar exam answers to your hands and forearms.

Thank me later.

I don't want laws that DISCOURAGE people from reporting a crime.

This is a fucking non-story. When you try to force entry into a home, cops are (hopefully) going to show up. When you get offended because they have the nerve to ask you what you are doing, and you try to play the race card on them simply because you happen to be black, they get offended. No one likes to be called a racist (at least most of us don't).

When you don't give a shit and disrespect them and their mothers even more... you get arrested.

End of (non) story.

What the hell is with all of these comments about Boston chicks farting a lot? What are you like 12 years old?

Has ATL disabled pasting into the comment boxes, or is that just something wrong with my brower right now?

Anyway, I don't think that "Good Samaritan law" means what you think that it means, at all.

Honestly, I'm kind of embarassed for you. For the love of God, do you ever want to get a job after this one, whether as a lawyer or a journalist? You seem to have some sort of intentional disregard for facts and legitimate analysis, only looking to stir up animosity based on your world view, which you wrongly view as typical or justifiied. I'm embarassed for myself when I make mistakes at work or in my other musings, and I try to change the behaviour that led to the embarassing mistake. You should seriously consider doing the same.

Elie, you are truly race-baiting with this idiotic commentary. My advice to you would be to have that racist article taken down from trueslant, and try to save a shred of credibility online. Seriously, wtf are you smoking/eating/shooting up?

If I was walking down the street and saw Elie Mystal trying to climb in his own window because he locked himself out... wait, he couldn't fit through the window...

If I saw him trying to budge his front door open because he locked himself out, I would probably call the police. It wouldn't matter if they were white, black, indian, persian, chinese, or anything else.

Most people would err on the side of being cautious and let the police sort it out. It just so happens that in Henry Gates' case, the police were a bunch of cowboys who aren't used to seeing a "real live negro committing a crime." It is the police that were at fault here, and not the passerby.

Once again Elie you prove that you are not only disgustingly overweight, but that you are a bleeding heart byproduct of an affirmative action program gone wrong.

Wow, Elie, could you be any more ridiculously one-sided and militant in your article?

"while I don’t know him personally I consider him to be one of the best writers and thinkers in America."

Without looking his resume up, please name three major accomplishments of his. We have a lot of great writers and thinkers in America. While Gates has made contributions, you're making it sound like he's some genius visionary at the level of Hawking or something.

"1) The White Lady Was A Raving Idiot. There is no “good Samaritan exception” for this woman. Look at the detail she was able to give the cops: black men, with backpacks (!), attempting to force an entry."

So. you're telling me, regardless of race, if you saw two guys trying to "force an entry" (what would look like, I dunno breaking into a building), that happened to be your building, and you didn't recognize them, you wouldn't call the cops too? Give me a break.

And, we have no idea if the woman filing the report saw the taxi -- you're turning what could have been a very scary subjective situation (someone you don't know, forcibly trying to open a closed door) into "oh, but it was nothing in reality; therefore, that woman had to be a RACIST!"

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/art.gates.demotix.jpg

Which policeman was the racist? The black one or the white one.

6 = racist

19: I'm with you. I truly have no idea what this dude is talking about. Is he trying to say that once you undertake to help somebody you cannot act recklessly? Is that the logic here?

call the cops in upper class neighborhoods - penalty under good samaritan law

call the cops in the gheTTTo - "snitches get stitches"

1. If you think you see a crime, report it, so someone who knows what they're doing can deal with it.

2. If you are a cop responding to the report of a crime, go to check out an alleged daytime break-in, ask for i.d. from the alleged burglar, and are shown the i.d. of the person who lives in the house, which matches the person who is allegedly breaking in, you do not have a crime on your hands, and should not make an arrest.

This is not rocket science. Seriously.

Get back to studying.

"What time should I stop studying the day before the bar exam? I'm thinking no later than 3pm.

Also, should I look over old questions the morning of the exam, or is it better to spend that time sleeping and show up rested? Thanks for any advice"

Give up now. If you are that scared of failing, you suck too much to be a real lawyer.

--person who did jack all studying and passed.

Comment removed by moderator.

MysTTTal: please stick to massaging your moobs.

23, I picture this in Elie's world...

Dear old grandma is sitting in her rocking chair on the front porch. She spies across the street two young black men trying to jimmy open a front door. This old lady runs to call the cops, then thinks to herself, "Uh Oh, those men are BLACK! What if the cops think I'm a racist, and I'm held liable for not having a due standard of care in reporting them?

Undeterred, she goes over to the house, and asks the young men for IDs, to confirm they don't live there. Of course, this time they actually WERE burglars. They tie her up, rob her, and lock her in the basement. Dear old granny isn't found 3 weeks later in the robbed house.

Seriously Elie, can you explain what you were trying to get at with your comment?

Am I racist if whenever I see a black gentleman walking towards me, I cross to the other side of the street?

Elie:

WHAT?

You want to explore whether the white lady should be found "guilty" [sic, liable] for calling the police? You are a complete idiot. Seriously, you are an embarrasment to this blog, your alma mater, and to the profession. You deserve to be fired.

1. She saw 2 people breaking into a house and called the cops. How on earth is that culpable?

2. Cop's actions are intervening.

3. Causation?

I can say, without hyperbole, that this is the dumbest article I have seen here. A new low by a wide margin.

If good samaritans were held to a higher standard of care people would stop reporting possible crimes. So now, you want us to balance the competing interests of privacy (that is, the right to not show identification) against calling the cops when a person thinks, in good faith, a crime is occurring. Just let her calls the cops if she thinks something bad is going on. There are crimes to prevent knowingly false reports of crime, and civil liability is not the answer just b/c some reverse-racist had to show his id.

If this were a black lady who reported a white guy, nobody would think twice. This was not an act of racism - stop reaching.

I am soooo confused. Since when do good samaritan laws provide a basis for liability? Is that like Restatement 90?

I wish I was in high school again so I could shove Elie Mystal into a really large locker, then give him a swirly. Then I would dump all of his books out of his backpack and zip it shut inside-out.

Nothing like some MysTTTal race-baiting to drive up the WWW hits and comments (and advertising $) on ATL.

Fuck this site and its useless, lazy, fat-ass editors. I'm done with ATL.

Not racism.

Not a news story.

A non-issue.

Thanks for ensuring that I never link to true/slant ever again.

Does anybody know the maximum number of BigMacs one can cram into the 1-gallon, BOLE-approved plastic bags? Elie, I assume you figured it out a few years ago. Any advice? Should I squish the buns?

Honestly, Elie, you answered one of the commenters on T/S with this (full quote included for purposes of completeness):

"if my wife sees two men breaking down her own door, I want her to confront them — from the safety of a 1 ton moving vehicle"

You'd honesty want your wife approaching two guys she didn't necessarily know, who appear to be trying to break into a building? Look, take race 100% out of the equation, trying to force open a closed / locked door is more often than not, a break-in attempt. It could be a "I've lost my keys" -- in which case, call someone. It could be a "door is legitimately broken" -- but that's extremely rare. That only leaves "break-in" as you leading reason for the behavior. And also, we're talking about the city here -- Cambridge, next to Boston, with its fair share of crime problems. The general rule when dealing with potential crime is NOT to engage the criminals, but to call the police and keep a safe distance. Suppose they were burglars / robbers (pretty good chance based on background facts) -- then, your wife just got kidnapped, assaulted, raped.

Somehow, I don't think the trade-off of potentially having your wife assaulted, raped, etc. by robbers is worth the inconvenience of you having to explain yourself to cops when you're trying to break open a door. This might be a law school balancing thing, but material risk of physical danger > momentary inconvenience.

34: aaaagreed. plus, arent there usually local ordinances to punish people for prank calls & false reports?

32: your mind has been taken over. im sorry. you don't understand the logic of these facts because your view of the law is based on a desire to commit activism. no state court judge who plans to work longer than his present term thinks like you. not one. never did.

This is the worst blog of all the blogs. Thats saying something.

The only racist I see in this fiasco is the professor. He will get a settlement from the City for his inconvenience.

Some relevant facts about the caller:

--The caller works for Harvard Magazine
--She does not live in Cambridge
--She likely witnessed Gates (dressed in a blue blazer, slacks, and leather shoes) and his driver (dressed in a black uniform) wrestle with the door for as much as 15 minutes before they got it open. Indeed, she stayed there until the cops showed up.
--Gates had three bags or suitcases piled next to the door
--The lady told the police that she witnessed "two black men with backpacks"
--The driver is Moroccan
--There were no backpacks

I just lost the little respect that I had for you, Ellie.

13 - He got into Harvard twice by using the jaws of life. Duh.

"I'm interested in the the white lady who called the cops in the first place,"

That says it all...seriously in any other job or industry Elie you'd be fucking fired right now. You focus on the race of woman, for no other reason for her race, and her crime is SHE CALLED THE POLICE?

I echo sentiments above, as dumb as some of the posts have been (Roxana), this is beyond dumb, this is how the fuck did someone so stupid graduate from Harvard twice dumb.

Elie. Resign.

28 and 40 = winners.

ATL = loser. This is the stupidest article I've ever seen on any legal blog... by far.

Steve gets it right: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/07/who-is-carrying-racist-thoughts.html

"When somebody is as out of control emotionally toward a policeman as Gates was, they are often a danger to other civilians, such as their loved ones. I presume that Professor Gates doesn't watch Cops much, but screaming It's None Of Your Business, You Racist at a policeman who asks if there is anybody else in the house is traditionally seen by policemen as a warning sign that there might be somebody else, or her corpse, in the house."

30 - LOL - I thought people were joking when they said that the cops were black...That this is being made into a racial issue is a f*^king joke.

This is the worst blog of all the blogs. Thats saying something.

Does anybody know the maximum number of BigMacs one can cram into the 1-gallon, BOLE-approved plastic bags? Elie, I assume you figured it out a few years ago. Any advice? Should I squish the buns?

Elie, I read you rant on the other blog and you are a fucking race-bating retard of the first order. And this has nothing to do with the way you run this site.

Cops are supposed to respond to calls or stop people breaking into homes, day or night, Cambridge or not.

The question turns on whether the cops were actually racist dicks after being shown proper ID, or whether Gates decided to get all uppity and scream at the cops and make a scene. Who knows?

But then when you post internet tough guy shit like this we know that you are being a self indulgent fucking tool:

"God forbid that I ever do as much with my life as Professor Gates has, and then some police officer comes to my home, wrongly accuses me of a crime, and then doesn’t have the respect to apologize appropriately. Because then I will get arrested and for a lot more than disorderly conduct."

34 and 40 nailed it. Ellie, seriously. I'm not a hater generally, but your "good samaritan" paragraph, at its heart, reflects a complete lack of understanding of what racism is. Racism is NOT calling the police when someone breaking into a house happens to be black. Racism is failing or refusing to call the police when someone breaking into a house is black. It's not like there's any debate about whether he was breaking into the house. He admits he was breaking into the house. It's just that it was his house. Yeesh.

Elle should be disbarred

Am I racist if whenever I see a black gentleman walking towards me, I cross to the other side of the street?

I guess it's wrong to say uppidy negro, because my comment got deleted. Was it the uppidy part, or the negro part? Frankly, I think the professor likely is a total asshole.

I haven't seen Good Samaritan laws so improperly applied since the series finale of Seinfeld. At least Larry David is funny - what's your excuse, MysTTTal?

Elie, I read you rant on the other blog and you are a fucking race-bating retard of the first order. And this has nothing to do with the way you run this site.

Cops are supposed to respond to calls or stop people breaking into homes, day or night, Cambridge or not.

The question turns on whether the cops were actually racist dicks after being shown proper ID, or whether Gates decided to get all uppity and scream at the cops and make a scene. Who knows?

But then when you post internet tough guy shit like this we know that you are being a self indulgent fucking tool:

"God forbid that I ever do as much with my life as Professor Gates has, and then some police officer comes to my home, wrongly accuses me of a crime, and then doesn’t have the respect to apologize appropriately. Because then I will get arrested and for a lot more than disorderly conduct."

99% of the comments herein refer to Elie being fat, retarded, and racist, or to how shitty Above the Law is. I think that speaks for itself.

The article by Gates' daughter is a joke. First sentence is inaccurate:

"Earlier this week, my father was wrongly accused of breaking into his own home."

Really, I thought he was accused of disorderly conduct? First question begins "Daddy, . . ." Most questions include multiple questions, and the author inserts gratuitous opinions "So since it’s clear this happens every day to minorities everywhere . . . "

Joke.

Yes, Ellie, by all means, people who observe what they reasonably believe to be suspicious should do a thorough analysis of the situation before contacting the police. Is that the standard you want your neighbors (or just anyone passing by your property) to be held to? How much analysis must they do? As for the question of what is reasonable, well, have you ever tried a case? Suffice to say that reasonable people can disagree on just about everything. The fact is, you and every other person blogging about this simply wasn't there and can only see the events through your own biases. You weren't there though, so you don't know.

By the way, the cops did nothing wrong and it's simply a red herring for race-baiters to hang their hats on to claim that they did anything wrong. Police are sworn to protect us, every day, every shift, and all they did was show up at Gates' house and try to figure out what was going on. Then by Gates' own admission, he let them have it. A cop in New Jersey with 3 little kids died yesterday after being shot by a drug dealer. Race played no role in it. Yet, for someone like you, a legal commentator, to claim that the police did something wrong here? That's just shameful. Stick to reporting about on campus interviewing or get a job where you have to literally put your life on the line.

First to say, I have no ideas who my neighbors are and would not recognize them if they stood up in my soup. I expect many other people are the same way. In fact, there was a Seinfeld episode about this were Jerry wouldn't let his next door neighbor in the lobby of his apartment building because Jerry didn't know him and thought he might be a burglar. Who's fault it is for not knowing your neighbors? I expect it is the woman's fault just as much as it is the professor's fault. Did he ever introduce himself?

This is terrible, Elie.

Not just your batshit crazy theories, but your attempt to invoke a legal theory about which you don't even have a passing familiarity.

Can you explain how somebody might be "guilty" (or even "liable"--I see you've edited your original post to try to salvage some legitimacy) "under various theories of good Samaritan laws" for calling the police on what she believed were burglars?

Explain yourself, please. Or else stop pretending to be a real lawyer.

The funniest part of all is that Gates and company think their behavior is going to lead to LESS incidents like this.

(and by less, I assume they mean fewer)

67, there aren't even 100 posts here, so 99% doesn't even make sense you mathematically challenged idiot.

Did you read Elie's post, it is truly, truly stupid, and hopefully his Waterloo, how can anyone that can think, and even think so much to write something so stupid, can even be employed by anyone?

Elie is a fraud. And a racist fraud. I haven't met him so I can't vouch for whether he's fat. But by God that was a stupid column.

Yes, Elie, the woman should not call the cops because there is a cab in front of the house, because you know from living in NYC, cabbies are the moral paradigm of metropolitan areas.

I mean, its like you don't even try to look at things from a neutral perspective.

Comment removed by moderator.

Ok, can we please put an end to this story already? I feel like this has been going on for a month already. Dr. Gates needs to just let this go and realize he was at fault in this. I have had the same thing happen to me only reversed, (Hispanic cop, me being white). I live in a very expensive neighborhood and locked myself out. I had to climb up the fire escape and force open the window. By the time I got back in and settled, the police were banging on the door to open up. I was treated extreamly rude but instead of acting like an elitist which I surely could have and said things like "Do you know who my father is?" and "I pay your salery" I treated them with respect, walked outside, answered their questions politly when asked, and complied. The matter was resolved in under 5 minutes, we shook hands and they left. To be honest I was glad they came.

Elie I understand that you and many black commentaters out there feel the need to continue to remind people about racism because most figured once Obama got in the world was a happy place, and nothing bad happened. But seriously not EVERYTHING is racial. Calm down and save the race card for when you actually need it.

Elie fucking resign. This post and the garbage on True/Slant is grotesque and race baiting. Fact is dont talk shit to cops. If anything I find it funny when people are so smart they dont know when to shut the f -up.

Love,
White guy who knows when to shut his mouth

"RACEEEE WARRRRR" "ITS ON"!!!!!

Am I a racist if whenever I see a post written by MysTTTal, I scowl?

68: In the article by Gates' daughter, Gates also complained about not being given Miranda rights upon his arrest as an example of improper police procedure. He's been watching too much Law & Order -- unless the cops wanted to interrogate him upon / after arrest, the police are not required to give a suspect Miranda rights. And, considering the arrest was for disorderly conduct, there clearly wasn't going to be the need for any interrogation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law

"Good Samaritan laws in the United States are laws or acts protecting from liability those who choose to aid others who are injured or ill. They are intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death."

Now you know and knowing is half the battle!

Dear Elie,

Long-time reader, first time commenter.

This is the worst piece of garbage I had ever read. And then I followed the link to True/Slant.

I usually feel bad about all the fat/moobs/dumbass Elie-directed comments I read. But right now I think it's almost justified.

You've become pretty good at what you do. Stick to it. This is just garbage.

I don't think it was a cab. No cabbie I know wears a black uniform. Car service perhaps?

Volokh had the police officer's report, and Gates told his lawyer-vetted version to theroot.com.

Gates admits that he found his door damaged and stuck, and that the driver assisted him in kicking the door in. This would look exactly like breaking into a house to the alarmed neighbor.

Gates claims he was totally polite and the cop was a giant rampaging douche who knowingly arrested a Harvard professor for no reason.

The cop says Gates was shouting and calling him racist from the moment he walked up, and didn't listen to his explanation of why he was there.

It appears Gates did not know about the 911 call, and believed that the officer had happened by his home, seen a black man, and decided to investigate on that basis. This belief upset Gates, and he went off on the cop.

If the cop really was committing a flagrant abuse of authority, one wonders why he called a bunch of other cops, some of whom were employed by a different department (Harvard University Police) to witness this racially motivated hate-arrest.

However, the police officer's allegations don't appear to meet the elements of any crime; it is not illegal to shout at a police officer.

Gates thinks the lesson of the story is that the system will bring the hammer down on a black man, no matter how prominent or rich or well-connected he is.

However, I think, regardless of race, no matter who you are, you should never pick a fight with a cop. At the very least, he can ruin your afternoon.

Elie, before this post I thought the worst commentator in America was Anne Coulter. Now she is #2.

Congrats, at least you're #1 at something, dummy.

She would be guilty/liable if she knew that Gates was not a burglar and just called the cops to harass him.

If she didn't, then she doesn't need any kind of liability shield.

I love how expecting a white lady to say "hello" to two black men on a porch in the middle of the day in Cambridge, MA makes me a racist. Clearly, she would have been putting her life in danger if she had confronted at 58 year old man and his driver.

I get that a lot of you think she did enough, but clearly she could have done more, given the objective fact that she was TOTALLY WRONG about the supposed break-in.
--Elie

79 FTW!

87, maybe so, but she's probably getting a lot of (arguably deserved) hate mail.

Comment removed by moderator.

Elle is clearly incompetent to blog. After next Wednesday, I will be available.

Elie says: "clearly she could have done more, given the objective fact that she was TOTALLY WRONG about the supposed break-in."

We lawyers don't generally look at the objective reasonableness of a person's actions from an ex post perspective.

You've lost all credibility.

Elie,

By all accounts, Gates returned from his trip to China to find his door stuck and damaged by a previous break-in attempt that had occurred in his absence. With the assistance of the driver, Gates forced the door open.

It's completely understandable that this would look like a break-in to the neighbor.

Elie, two guys who spent 15 minutes kicking in a door! Come on man -- this is becoming more and more ridiculous by the moment. And, you're honestly telling me that the 58 year old man couldn't have been carrying a weapon? We're talking about an older woman vs. two guys busting down a door. People don't generally confront others committing suspicious behavior to the level of kicking open a door. Call any police station, prosecutor, or safety advocate in the country -- no one is going to advise you to confront people who might be committing a crime. When in doubt, call the police. I don't know why someone reporting a potential crime is so offensive to you.

Yes, she ended up being wrong about the situation, but in 99% of other situations with those facts, she would have been right. How often do you think doors just get stuck requiring people to kick them in vs. break-ins to houses initiated by someone forcing open a door? You're way too obsessed with the fact that it didn't end up being a robbery versus the fact that 99% of cases with similar facts would have been robberies, and that a reasonable person would have called the police. You're focusing on the weird outlier situation as opposed to what would have likely been the situation, and therefore, what a reasonable person should have done -- called the police.

88 - I am a white woman and I have black neighbors - I just moved in a few months ago. I tried to be friendly to them and say "hello" as I left my apartment one afternoon. The neighbors were sitting on the stoop outside. My "hello" was returned with a chorus of "Hey, baby!" "Hi, sweetie" "I know what you need" "Fine ass." Etc.

Perhaps that is why the white lady did not say hello.

wait a second. this happened to me. someone called the cops while i was breaking into a house with someone who lived there. same senerio but i'm the cab driver. the cops were pissed. nobody of any species gets uppity with the cops. give me a break. black people have a BIG CHIP on their SHOULDERS.

88, you are totally full of shit. You're wrong, just plain wrong. All the woman did was report suspicious activity. Seeing two people kick in a front door to a house is suspicious by any measure. Add to it the fact that the two men were black in a mostly white neighborhood, and there you have it. You, sir, are a complete dumbass.

What did 91 say?

Was it racist?

What did 91 say?

"two black men on a porch" ? Way to leave out the fact that THEY WERE BREAKING INTO THE HOUSE!

Elie makes it sound like the lady was taking a stroll down the street, saw two black men relaxing in two rocking chairs, enjoying a beverage and then whipped out the cell phone to call the cops.

It's too bad Elie weren't there to help the professor. He could have pulled a Kool-Aid man.

93 - see 51 for a contemporary account of what she likely witnessed

Elie, stop picking and choosing your facts. Could the white lady have done more? You want a person to approach two strangers and ask for what, i.d.? What would Gates have crowed about then? When you say she could have done more and note that he's a 58 year-old guy -- let's not forget about the driver who was with him. How old/big is he? You believe that is irrelevant to the decision by the woman not to approach? What if it was 3 guys? What if the guys all had guns drawn? should she still approach? You're a big fat race-baiter. Do something meaningful with your life.

"given the objective fact that she was TOTALLY WRONG about the supposed break-in. "

Fucking, kidding me. So now people that call the police need to think about whether they might be wrong about something?

Fucking stop Elie, you're a digging a hole you can't get out of.

Elie, if you see something suspicious, you should not have to do an investigation to determine whether there actually is wrongdoing going on or just something with an innocent explanation. This woman called in what she saw, and let the police ask the questions. That's the police officer's job. It was totally reasonable for her to share her concern and let the police sort it out.

I'm sure she expected the police to ask questions and figure out what was going on. That is their job, after all.

People aren't calling you racist because you expect an old lady to confront two men with possibly criminal intent. They are calling you racist because you assume that this lady, because of her race, must have been racist. They are calling you racist because you assume that the police officer, who certainly seems like a dick, must have been racist because of his race. The more likely explanation is that the officer is just an equal opportunity dick to everyone, or at least those who don't promptly follow his orders. You ascribe motivations to these people's actions solely because of their race.

Black people scare me. I don't care if they are an infant, or 58 years old. They scare the hibbity dibbity out of me. Is that racist?

"Clearly, she would have been putting her life in danger if she had confronted at 58 year old man and his driver"

Glad to see your grammar skills in comments are equal to your posts.

Do you realize if you were white you would barely be accepted at the local community college?

Moron.

I think 96's neighbors should be liable if they are objectively wrong about her ass being fine.

Can someone explain to me how two men (one a Moroccan in a car service uniform and the other an African American in a blue blazer) constitute "two black men with backpacks"? That says more about the caller than anything else.

What did 91 say?

America is broken into two groups: the good and the bad. Tough luck for afro-americans that 80% of black males are criminals at some point in their lives, which leads to the obvious difficulty in identifying the good ones when they're seen kicking in doors. If blacks would take responsibility for the pitiful situation in the black community, then there might be some progress. Until then, shut the fuck up.

Really sorry to ask this question - I know I should know the answer - but this Gates fellow was a professor at Harvard, right? Can someone tell me if Harvard also has a law school and, if so, if it is accredited by the ABA?

Elie,

When you call the old white lady a racist, you yourself are guilty of being age-ist and gender-ist. You are a young man and you don't know what it's like to be an old lady. You shouldn't expect an old lady to act the same way that a young man would act.

What's more, if I were planning the perfect robbery, I'd probably get a cab and bring lots of empty suitcases. Then, "reasonable" passers-by would just assume that I was on vacation and got locked out, and wouldn't call the cops on me. They might even ask me what I was doing, at which point I would tell them that I was returning from vacation and got locked out. At which point they would leave me alone, I'd break into the house, put all the stuff in the suitcases, and drive off in the cab.

95. I think that is exactly the point that puts me on the other side of most of the commenters. I don't think that in "99% of other situations with those facts" she'd have been right. In fact, I don't think it's anywhere close.

Think about it this way, how many times have you or people you know been locked out of a house in the middle of the day? How times have you or people that you know been burgled in the middle of the day?

If you are honestly going to say that you are 99% more likely to be burglarized than you are to be locked out of your own home, buddy you need to move to a different neighborhood.

Gates lives in Cambridge, MA, blocks away from Harvard Square. I promise you the amount of times absent minded, octogenarian, professor-types find themselves locked out in his neighborhood significantly outstrips the amount of times these people are robbed in the middle of the day.

So, no, I'd say that in most cases she'd end up being wrong about the situation, just like she was here. Given that, why did she call the cops before trying to ascertain if her neighbor required assistance? I simple do not assume that it would have been dangerous AT ALL, for this woman to have asked a question from the safety of her cab.

So I disagree, but I appreciate your ability to state your point without using racial slurs and stereotypes.
--Elie

The way I see it: I recently moved to a new apartment in Brooklyn. Someone called 911 for a potential burglary case. After I asked the officer (a 6'2 white male) what was going on, he answered that there was a report of my house/building being robbed. Having into consideration that I was born in South America (although I look white), it never cross my head to answer back "Why, because I am a Latino man in America?"
I simply showed him and the other officers some proof that I was moving in. The police took off 10 seconds later.
Now, considering that I have never, and never will, experience slavery, racism, apartheid, and other forms of inhuman treatment, I would have expected that an educated person and public figure like Mr. Gates –even in his worst state of frustration- to react differently before the police (who, after all they are only do their job).
Without knowing the exact details of the exchange of words, if he wasn't doing anything wrong he just should have shown his id. and explained that there has been a misunderstanding.

ELIE, PLEASE POST YOUR LAW SCHOOL TRANSCRIPT.

Jesus, you are a retard. I have absolutely NO DOUBT you were bottom 5% of your class.

96, next time they comment on your nice ass, you might consider offering them a quick ass pounding. It's great way to break the tension.

Am I racist if this story makes me horny?

112: Indeed, and there have been increased numbers of reports of burglaries during the day for exactly this reason -- people don't expect them to take place during the day, so they're a lot less vigilant of suspicious behavior during that time. In other words, yes, it was perfectly reasonable to suspect that something suspicious was taking place even though it was the middle of the day.

I used to read ATL because I enjoyed it. Now I read for the same reason I watch Bill O'Reilly: because I enjoy being angered by poorly-articulated opinions without any intellectual substance. The fact that Elie is a fat fuck is just more reason to be disgusted by his posts. I imagine him sweating Crisco hammering away with sausage fingers on a keyboard made shiny with butter and grease.

That white mouse is racist.

Elie, Good Samaritin laws PROTECT people from liability when they report crimes -- they do not increase their liability. They are designed to encourage - not discourage - this type of behavior. Did you really go to Harvard Law? Really?

Ah so this Mystal fellow was the gentleman writing about "lips" on the train for True/Slant.

Mystal, I didn't move because I was disturbed by your sensitive outpouring of emotion on your blog or that you are black... I moved because your wide girth was covering an uncomfortable proportion of my seat.

Nice use of the verb "burgled."

You are still a moron.

Elie --

Funny story. Once there was a man (who happened to be white) trying to climb into my window in the middle of the day while I was at work. The busy body old lady next door saw him and asked him what was going on. He politely explained that he was a friend visiting from out of town and had locked himself out. Reassured with this explanation, she went back to watching Days of Our Lives or whatever it is that she did. I then came home to a house that had been burglarized, with nearly $20,000 worth of property stolen.

It's either wholly naive or wholly stupid of you to think that burglaries don't happen during the day. In affluent suburbs like Cambridge, residential burglaries ONLY happen during the day. It's even more stupid of you to think that a common layperson should think herself capable of assessing the story's of suspicious individuals.

Any chance we could get a post about what Elie thinks about Ben Rothlisberger raping a person of color? FIRST to say Rothlisberger is racist!

@Elie: You sir, are a moron. You wrote: "Gates lives in Cambridge, MA, blocks away from Harvard Square. I promise you the amount of times absent minded, octogenarian, professor-types find themselves locked out in his neighborhood significantly outstrips the amount of times these people are robbed in the middle of the day. "

I suggest you take a look at the Cambridge Police Department's 2008 crime report on burglary, page 39. Specifically the part where it says that there were 61 burglaries in that part of town last year. It begins:

"Housebreaks most commonly occur during the daytime when victims are not at home, or while the homeowners are away on vacation." It goes on to say:

"The most common method of entry is forcing or prying open the front door."

http://www.cambridgema.gov/CityOfCambridge_Content/documents/5%20Burglary.pdf

The lady isn't even a neighbor of Gates. She lives in a different town altogether. What is she doing calling the cops?

114, you are absolutely right. That is exactly what Skip Gates should have done. He behaved improperly.

That said, he is 58 years old. That means he was born in 1951. His first memories of police officers likely included watching them turn fire hoses and attack dogs on little girls. It doesn't excuse his behavior. He was still wrong.

But there is a history here that informed his actions. A history that even a younger generation of black people can't fully empathize with.

I usually side with Elie but he makes no sense here. She alerted the authorities about a possible burglary. She is the good guy in this scenario (ie trying to look out for a neighbor). Gates is the bad guy in this scenario (ie refusing to cooperate with a police officer answering a call). To assert that she had an obligation to put her life at risk and investigate the situation is really beyond the pale. This situation has nothing to do with race. The person who introduced race (Gates I think) is the racist.

This would be big news if it happened to Obama on the White House steps...

It wasnt necessarily racism, Cops are simply rights violating assholes. The majority of them are just criminals with guns and badges, and the rest are the lowly idiots from high school looking for a good paycheck that requires limited intellect. They can't handle ANYBODY of any race or ethnic group talking down or back to them, especially if that person is obviously more intelligent than them, and especially if that person is right.

126 wins.

124 FTW.

Elie, you fat, stupid fuck. STFU.

Elie is write. At common law, burgarly had to be at night. SInce it was daylight there could be no burgarly.

Elie, you managed to make ATL your own personal soap box to whine about all the injustice you see in life. Go away.

126 FTW!

wow this is absolutely absurd. It's a shame that in this economy that Elie is one of the ones with a job. I don't think there's any way to score even decently on the LSAT with such poor reasoning skills, which leads me to believe this is all on purpose.

Elie, I honestly haven't run into situations where I've been locked out of my place where it would have been practical or reasonable to break open the door. If I were locked out of my place, I would have to call a neighbor, a family member, or a locksmith. That's because my front door is in normal operation condition -- as in, not previously damaged from a prior break-in attempt, and capable of being opened via normal use of force (battering ram or weapon of course, but not merely kicking).

The point is that this wasn't merely a "I'm locked out" situation -- it involved a very subjectively weird factor -- the fact that the door was stuck / broken due to previous break-in attempts. This is not going to be the case in 99% of situations. I would throw the "if it is for you, you should move to a different neighborhood" line back at you here.

Therefore, when you see someone trying to break a door down, in my experience, that's usually a sign of unauthorized / criminal behavior. Again, it's your door, and in most cases, if you break it down, it's going to require an expensive repair, so you're very much unlikely to do so, sans a very weird situation like Gates' (where the door was already quasi-broken b/c of a prior break-in). That's why I would deem people trying to force open a door to be more likely criminal behavior than not.

134 - You need to stop reading Barbri and get to work on those homophones...write/right.

Elie,

She was not wrong about the break-in. She was ignorant about the ownership of the house. And maybe the reason for that is not that she is a racist, but because HLG thinks he's special ("do you have any idea who I am?") and better than everyone on his street and doesn't take the time to meet them. Maybe not, but it does seem plausible, no?

My main problem with you is not that you expect a woman to confront 2 men -regardless of color- who are kicking in a door (which is a pretty stupid idea it itself).

My main problem with you is not even that you think that her failure to do so makes her a racist (which is also pretty dumb-do you really think she would have introduced herself to 2 white men kicking in a door? Really? )

No, my real problem with you is that think that her failure to confront the door-kickers before calling the cops could or should in any way render her legally "guilty" [sic, liable] of something. That is such an objectively stupid idea that it is just offensive.

-40

If the two people breaking into Gates' house had indeed been thugs and had they gone on to find Gates in his home and then killed him while committing their other crimes, and had the two breaking into the house and not called the police, I'm sure that Elie would be whining about how she must have known that the house was owned by a black man and how she was racist for not caring about black on black crime.

I look forward to reading the ATL post from Elie the day after he finds his own home broken into in the middle of the day...I'm sure he'll blame the cops and his neighbors for being racist for not stopping the crime.

Elie, if you ever scrounge up enough to buy a home of some sort, I hope you can find neighbors who could give a fig whether your house is being burlarized. Try NYC.

As for me, if my neighbor called in anyone breaking into my front door, I'd make her some freaking cookies.

Elie, Even Gates agreed that the lady did nothing wrong in calling the police (see the Washington Post article). He would want anyone seeing what was happening to call the police as well.

Also, your rant about the cab is wrong. There is apparently no Yellow cab for the lady to observe as Gates was using a limo service. So she could not have made the association you think she should have made about the two men using a cab as a getaway vehicle.

Get your facts straight before you start making conclusions, especially when playing the race card.

I can personally tell you that if someone drives by my house and sees two white men trying to force open the front door in broad daylight, I would want them to call the police. People's homes get robbed all the time in broad daylight because they are at work. I just don't understand how these circumstances equate to being a racist for calling the police.

I can personally tell you that if someone drives by my house and sees two white men trying to force open the front door in broad daylight, I would want them to call the police. People's homes get robbed all the time in broad daylight because they are at work. I just don't understand how these circumstances equate to being a racist for calling the police.

144 it's not the fact that she called the police itself but what she reported to them versus what she was confronted with. There is an incongruity there that can only be explained by racism.

Elie-

Take a few deep breaths, relax, then read comments 124 and 126.

Think reasonably about the situation and your own comments about the woman who called the cops.

Think about what HLG said about the woman who called the cops.

Then, admit that you may have overreacted, and in hindsight, you were wrong.

If you do that, you will gain a great deal of credibility for being honest, thoughtful, and reasonable.

Gotta love Elie arguing that busting down your own door is 99 times more likely than being burgled during the day, when the reason they busted down the door was because of an attempted burglary, and, for all we know, the attempt occurred in broad daylight.

If you witness what appears to be men breaking into the house, it should not be incumbent on the witness to investigate further; it is perfectly appropriate to call the police. That is what the police are for.

I can't see any argument in favor of a policy that discourages people who believe they are witnessing crimes from coming forward or contacting the authorities.

This would never happen to Michele Obama.

Some relevant facts about the caller:

--The caller works for Harvard Magazine
--She does not live in Cambridge
--She likely witnessed Gates (dressed in a blue blazer, slacks, and leather shoes) and his driver (dressed in a black uniform) wrestle with the door for as much as 15 minutes before they got it open. Indeed, she stayed there until the cops showed up.
--Gates had three bags or suitcases piled next to the door
--The lady told the police that she witnessed "two black men with backpacks"
--The driver is Moroccan
--There were no backpacks

"At least I'm consistent."

You are only consistent in that you see everything as a racial issue. You're criticizing a woman who called the police after she saw people forcibly entering a residence. She doesn't have a duty to investigate. THE RACE OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED DOESN'T MATTER. You are OBVIOUSLY taking the positions that you're taking because of the racial angle. The funny thing is that it's quite transparent, but you actually chime in to argue these points, arguing that someone should only call police after observing suspicious activity after confronting the actors to verify that they are, indeed, breaking the law.

You've said a lot of stupid things, but this is the most stupid.

This post = epic fail.

Housebreaks most commonly occur during the daytime when victims are not at home, or while the homeowners are away on vacation." It goes on to say:

HEY ELIE ! ! ! ! ! ! !

"The most common method of entry is forcing or prying open the front door."

http://www.cambridgema.gov/CityOfCambridge_Content/documents/5%20Burglary.pdf

Now you STFU and resign.

#154 = black cop

In the interview with his daughter, Gates says that the officer wouldn't have questioned a white man. How does he know this? Unfortunately, jerks who like to boss other people around and who are obsessed with petty things are attracted to the law enforcement profession. And unfortunately those people don't get weeded out often enough. That's my experience at least. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with abuse of authority. Gates lives a life of luxury (travel, vacations on Martha's Vineyard, posh job, prestige, respect, etc.). He is not a victim of anything.

152: Indeed, if the actors are in fact breaking the law, when you establish this with them (or more realistically, establish that they have no credible reason for being at / breaking into the house), they're not exactly going to be thrilled about letting you go to report it to the police.

So, again, I fail to see the benefits of confronting the suspicious guys vs. calling the police and placing the burden on the suspicious guys to explain themselves and their behavior to the armed, and capable-of-defending-themselves police. I dunno about you, but I'm not about to put my safety at risk in order to be extra courteous to guys suspiciously trying to break open a door. If they have a legitimate reason and express it to the police civilly, there shouldn't be any problem. Whereas, if they don't have a legitimate reason, and I confront them, I could be assaulted, robbed, etc.

Al Sharpton shows up to help Gates battle this 'problem' within hours but couldn't be bothered to show up to New Orleans until days after Katrina hit? That's a joke.

FIRST to point out that if the old white lady had approached Gates, he would have busted a cap in her ass.

why does it matter what color this guy is? From the neighbor's perspective, he was breaking into a house. So she did the responsible thing and called the police. The police came and he was flippant with them when they were cautious about his story. So they asked him to step outside.

wtf.

this could happen to a white, black, yellow, red, green, or polka dotted person.

IT WOULD HAVE PLAYED OUT THE SAME WAY NO MATTER WHAT COLOR THIS GUY WAS.

His color doesn't make him guilty or suspicious. his actions and his reactions make him a total DOUCHEBAG!

I think the real problem here is that Elie has a little too much empathy for folks breaking and entering. This probably stems from the fact that his childhood hero was the Hamburglar.

This professor, who 90% of America has never heard of, is simply trying to drum up press for his next book. He could have defused the entire situation by responding to the cop questions. He therefore is either (a) an idiot or (b) trying to cash in by playing up "racism" in America.

Ellie - I hope your house gets burgalized while your neighbors watch. You are an idiot.

I can imagine Lat saying right now: "Wow, Elie, your POS post generated over 160 comments, its a shame that 159 of them were pointing out that you are a morbidly obese mongoloid." Then Lat will beat Elie with the mutton leg Elie is currently eating.

156,

The officer almost certainly would have questioned a white man, because a 911 call creates paperwork, and the officer has to get the information necessary to write off the call as an erroneous report.

Emergency calls reporting crimes in-progress are pretty serious and get more response than just the officer rolling by and deciding that it looks fine from the street.

@162 - 90%? That is being very generous. I would be surprised if 2% of the population had ever heard of this guy, or even 1%.

And now for your Black-U-Weather forecast:

"Its gunna rain!"

Thank you, Ollie.

Lucky Boston has the Red Sox and Patriots otherwise those northern rednecks would be all over their 1st cousins

"Asking Gates to explain his actions after the point where the police accused him of breaking into his own house without any probable cause misses the point and is borderline offensive."

they dont teach what probable cause is at HLS? A phone call from a witness that saw 2 men breaking into a house qualifies as probable cause. You seem to be forgetting that HE WAS IN FACT BREAKING INTO A HOUSE. Yes, it was his house and this would have been easily proven if Gates showed his ID BEFORE he threw a hissy fit and the situation would have diffused. Gates is the only one that acted inappropriately

Elie,

I'm finished with ATL. I just read your article on True/Slant and it is the most incoherent piece of shit ever. You must have been a really shitty lawyer considering your conclusory analysis and careless attention to detail. Also, if you ever say something is "prima facie," you're letting the readers know you're about to discuss the different elements to establish whatever it is you're trying to establish. Instead, you use your likely incorrect assumptions and accept them as verified facts. You're a fucking gluttonous, racist, retarded waste of life and you hinder the movement to stop racism.

-Black guy T10 rising 2L.

I have always thought the Elie-bashing on here was a little over the top, but after reading what he wrote about this incident on his own blog, I am starting to wonder if he might the stupidest person ever to go to Harvard. He has managed to focus on exactly the wrong part of the story - the woman who called the police to report what looked like a burglary. She obviously did what any of us would hope our neighbors would do if they saw someone, of any race and at any time of the day or night, trying to pry open our front door.

In fact, according to the Washington Post story, Gates himself does not think that the woman who called 911 did anything wrong; his ire is directed solely at the cops who responded. He thinks the woman did the right thing, and hopes she would do so again:

"He has always said his neighborhood is the safest place in the world for him. He is often recognized on the streets, asked for autographs or to debate his latest documentary.

He has no qualms about the neighbor who called the police.

'I'm glad that someone would care enough about my property to report what they thought was some untoward invasion,' Gates said. 'If she saw someone tomorrow that looked like they were breaking in, I would want her to call 911. I would want the police to come. What I would not want is to be presumed to be guilty. That's what the deal was. It didn't matter how I was dressed. It didn't matter how I talked. It didn't matter how I comported myself. That man was convinced that I was guilty.' "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771_2.html?sub=AR&sid=ST2009072103463

So Gates is glad that someone "care[d] enough about [his] property" to call the police, but Elie thinks the woman was way out of line because she didn't give adequate weight to the possibility that there might be an innocent explanation for the apparent burglary and erred on the side of caution? I'm glad Elie doesn't live in my neighborhood.

I was locked out of my house once upon returning from an overseas trip because I had lost my house keys while abroad. It was broad daylight. I called a locksmith and waited for him to arrive and let me in, partly because I didn't want to get arrested for burglarizing my own house, but mainly because I didn't want to risk damaging the house.

Did anyone ever consider that Elie might be a white gay guy who is wearing black makeup so he can pass as black in order to have a better shot at getting some black ass. I mean, did anyone ever think about that?

I have always thought the Elie-bashing on here was a little over the top, but after reading what he wrote about this incident on his own blog, I am starting to wonder if he might the stupidest person ever to go to Harvard. He has managed to focus on exactly the wrong part of the story - the woman who called the police to report what looked like a burglary. She obviously did what any of us would hope our neighbors would do if they saw someone, of any race and at any time of the day or night, trying to pry open our front door.

In fact, according to the Washington Post story, Gates himself does not think that the woman who called 911 did anything wrong; his ire is directed solely at the cops who responded. He thinks the woman did the right thing, and hopes she would do so again:

"He has always said his neighborhood is the safest place in the world for him. He is often recognized on the streets, asked for autographs or to debate his latest documentary.

He has no qualms about the neighbor who called the police.

'I'm glad that someone would care enough about my property to report what they thought was some untoward invasion,' Gates said. 'If she saw someone tomorrow that looked like they were breaking in, I would want her to call 911. I would want the police to come. What I would not want is to be presumed to be guilty. That's what the deal was. It didn't matter how I was dressed. It didn't matter how I talked. It didn't matter how I comported myself. That man was convinced that I was guilty.' "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771_2.html?sub=AR&sid=ST2009072103463

So Gates is glad that someone "care[d] enough about [his] property" to call the police, but Elie thinks the woman was way out of line because she didn't give adequate weight to the possibility that there might be an innocent explanation for the apparent burglary and erred on the side of caution? I'm glad Elie doesn't live in my neighborhood.

I was locked out of my house once upon returning from an overseas trip because I had lost my house keys while abroad. It was broad daylight. I called a locksmith and waited for him to arrive and let me in, partly because I didn't want to get arrested for burglarizing my own house, but mainly because I didn't want to risk damaging the house.

This is less about race than about a privileged Harvard professor running his mouth off at a bunch of blue collar cops who didn't want to take crap from some loafer wearing self-important jackass.

That being said, the cops were COMPLETELY wrong. They were right to show up and investigate the call, which was properly made despite Mr. Mystal's ignorant but probably intentionally provocative blog post. Nonetheless, if you are in your own house and prove it by offering proof of identity, end of story. Its an abuse of power to arrest ANY citizen for reasons presented in these facts. Mr. Gates could have taken a shit on his floor and yelled "Eat my shit you Nazi-racist pigs!" and they still would have had no right to arrest him.

I once called the cops on two guys in Chicago under very similar circumstances. I noticed that the upstairs apartment across the alley was being searched by two guys with flash lights. Since it was just getting dark I couldn't tell what race they were.

After calling the all-purpose police number (not 911) CPD rolled up in full force, covering all the exits and then going up the stairs with guns drawn. From what I could tell they made them get down on the ground and ID themselves. It turned out they were workers there to fix the place up and they were surveying the apartment, which had no electricity, before they started the next day. Of course CPD detained them until they could verify this with the owner of the building and that took a while. It wasn't until they exited that I realized they were Latino and CPD didn't know until they arrived. Obviously no one knew what race they were ahead of time and things would have gone the same way if they were white, black, or whatever.

You see if you take the fact the old lady could see they were black out of it you can see that it was reasonable for her to call the cops just as it was reasonable for me to. I bet if I could have told this story to any of you before this HLG fiasco and you would have said, “You did the right thing and so did the cops.” After all, you don't take chances nowadays no matter where you live, especially if you're a 77 year old woman. Gates should have done what the 2 guys I called the cops on did: cooperate and be patient. Being questioned by the cops sucks when you’ve done nothing wrong. I’ve been there. But you don’t need to make matters worse by acting like a fool.

Of course Gates wanted to pick a fight, got one, and now is whining so he can capitalize from this. The cops shouldn't have arrested him but I think he's probably happy they did. He's getting a lot of mileage out of this and there seem to be no shortage of idiots out there willing to eat the bullshit he's shoveling out. The real tragedy here is that there are lots of people out there who actually are the victims or racial profiling and and their problems aren’t getting any attention whatsoever.

Riddle me this Batman, when are people most likely to not be home?

DAYTIME

My apartment was robbed while I was gone for 3 hours on a Friday afternoon, the Floridian couple murdered in their home? Daytime.

Burglars aren't generally looking to be violent, thus they break in during day in hopes of going undetected.

The fact that the race card was brought up in this situation is sickening and just discredits its future usage. Keep crying wolf, keep crying wolf...

One more thing: I had to break into my apartment 3 months ago because the latch was stuck. You know what I did? I told my downstairs neighbor ahead of time so he wouldn't worry someone was breaking in. That's called common sense.

Elie you are a dumbass.

Elie,
I read your article. How do you know the lady who reported Gates is white?

Elie- have you no shame.

Seems to me the person who likely made this about race was the professor. To the officer, it was probably about a getting yelled at and berrate for doing his job--checking out a burglary call. This is a classic POP charge. Bad judgment on the part of the professor and bad judgment on the part of the officer.

BTW, isn't that a big black cop standing in from of the professor in the picture as he is getting hauled off.

Oh no, the poor professor got arrested and sent down to the police station. The professor said this was going to lead him to study race relations in the criminal justice system. What a fucking pussy and waste of life.

Mr. Mystal, what you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone reading this blog is now dumber for having read to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

The counterrevolution against the absurd overuse of the race card has begun.

Cambridge PD has no backbone, but others aren't as weak. The day will soon come when completely rational behavior termed "racist" by leftover civil rights era dinosaurs will become nothing more than mindless chatter in the background.

Would Obama call racist in this situation? Hell no. He would've produced identification on demand and probably ended up going out for a beer with the cop.

150, of course this would never happen to Michelle Obama. For one thing, she is very smart and focused, and probably never forgets her keys. And if she ever did lock herself out, she has Secret Service officers who could break into the White House for her. She would just follow them in after they broke down the door. And she would look fabulous while doing it, too, so any tourists passing by on Pennsylvania Avenue would just look over and say, "wow, doesn't the First Lady look great in that sleeveless dress, and so strong too, she should help that tall guy with the wire coming of his ear to break that door down, because she looks stronger than he is."

Holy shit, did anyone read Elie's link? Here is a passage:

"Quite simply, I don’t think it is reasonable to call the cops whenever you see two people trying to forcibly enter house without first attempting to fully ascertain the situation."

What the hell? How many people may be shot to death for trying to fully ascertain the situation?

Elie, post your LSAT now, people need to know how fucking dumb you are.

MysTTTal

179 -
No, Elie has no shame.
Its a shame that we have Elie.

Q: How many black guys does it take to totally misinterpret the situation in front of them?

A: 2, Professor Gates for his extremely overbroad use of the race card and Elie Mystal for absurdly focusing and trying to place blame on a good faith neighbor.

similiar to post 122:

my friends back in my undergraduate days moved into in alston (a neighborhood in boston), and had moved in a week before the big move in weekend before colleges start.

a man (who was white, even though that shouldnt matter) was spotted by some of my other friends walking into their apt and out of it and moving things their things into a truck in BROAD DAYLIGHT. they asked who he was and he said he was a mover and that the tenants were moving again; they (stupidly) believed him.

needless to say my friends got robbed bc my other friends didnt call the cops and chose to trust someone they didnt know.

elie, come on; the greatest sign of strength is to admit when you are wrong. even gates acknowledges that the woman was right to call and i dont think thats just him covering his ass in the press as you think. just admit that your past experiences of being harassed skewed your viewpoint and you shot from the hip in your latest post. its ok, it happens to everyone.

Ellie,

You should be proud of yourself. This is a brilliant piece of journalism. Don't listen to the haters.

Bill Smith
CEO of Dunkin Donuts

In light of Elie's stupidity, I'm removing ATL from my RSS feed. I recommend the rest of you do the same. Clearly our complaints aren't getting through. Maybe if we stop looking at this website, Lat will wake up and do something.

187- that's a shame

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
An affirmative action admit.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
A hostage-taker.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
A preeminent black scholar. After all, he can read, right?

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
Unemployed.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
A unicorn.

193: Win.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
Urkel.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
Property.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
A man who's 23 letters away from literacy.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
Guy who stole the spot of a deserving white man.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
A man who still can't spell.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
Yo' momma.

What do I call a black man with a PhD?
A sellout.

dude, i am brown and if i saw two white guys trying to break into a house i would call the cops too. this has nothing to do with race. you break into a house, even your own, expect to be called on it and explain what you're doing when the cops show up. the only way gates was arrested was if he was being combative instead of cooperative.

Wow, Elie, that link is even stupider and more poorly written than this steaming turd.

Really, no burglaries during the day? You must not talk to many people with both jobs and houses. You must also not have had your door kicked in. Surprisingly easy, often easier than a window. When my place was burglarized, they took all my luggage and filled it with my own stuff.

You are either the worst neighbor or the most clueless human being on the planet if you don't see anything with two dudes of any color breaking down a door at any time of day.

Also, Elie, if he was an ACTUAL octogenarian (definition --> alive at least 80 years), she may have never called. Gates is 58, so your point is inapposite.

Mystal, you smell like dead bunnies.

Hey, I'm part black, brown, yellow, red, and white, so I can say anything I want to say without being a racist. The cops should have beat the shit out of the guy for backtalking. I got stomped once when I cracked wise with a cop. He wished me a good day as he left, with me bleeding on the ground. The fact is I deserved it, so there you have it you motherfuckers.

second hundred & first (also my law school's ranking coincidentally)

I'm not sure if I agree with this being a racist issue, but it's definitely a case of the cops overstepping their boundaries.

Professor Gates produced two forms of identification to the officer. When he asked for the same courtesy in return, WHILE STANDING IN HIS OWN HOME, he was arrested because he dared question the authority of a cop.

I'm a white woman and I have experienced this kind of behavior from police officers who instead of enforcing the law, in some way think they are above it. They then use their positions in order to be vindictive, bringing shame upon our whole justice system. Not all police are this way, but I have run into more than one.

This is a civil rights issue, but not necessarily a race issue. As soon as the police officer established there was not a crime taking place, he should have left. Instead, he decided to take an educated man "down a notch" and arrest him for disorderly conduct in HIS OWN HOME. The home where the police officer was not an invited guest, where Gates' identity had been established, and where the police continued to question him without probable cause.

I do not blame Mr. Gates for his reaction. It's the same as mine would have been, and the same as I bet many of your reactions would have been. I can't believe on a website full of attorneys most can't see past the race issue to the clear constitutional and civil rights issues in this case.

Somebody sounds bitter....

If a neighbor of mine saw two men she didn't reconize trying to break into a house in my area, I would hope to God she would call the police.

Seriously, I think it's sad that reporting suspicious activity to the police is no longer PC, if the people acting suspicious are minorities. Like, get over it.

Lesson learned today: if you see suspicious activity being done by non-whites, there is no need to call the police. It's not like blacks and other minorities ever commit any crimes in major cities.

200 - idiot
204 - sarcasm 101 "D-"
193, 195 - bitter loser, not really cool, friendless, socially awkward, virgin maybe, lots of self-doubt w/ cool on-line game characters and maybe a cat.

Can a white man be unjustly arrested? YES
Thus, it had nothing to do with race? TRUE

So, is it possible that a black man can be unjustly arrested, and the arrest have nothing to do with race? YES

Thank you.

This whole fucking episode has only aroused the race instigators. But the sad thing is blacks really are convinced this was about race. Sure it may have been about race; but to them there is no question. They will not even consider this had nothing to do with race.

That is madness.

206: Indeed, I think it's much more reasonable to conclude that Gates was arrested unjustly than that he was arrested unjustly because of his race. Had Gates not made a racial issue out of this, but instead made more of a police overstepping their bounds argument, I think he'd have widespread support.

And, as other posters have pointed out, Elie wasn't even close with his "the white woman who reported Gates was racist and should have investigated the situation beforehand" argument. Daytime burglaries are increasingly common (even cited in the Cambridge police report that posters have linked to), confronting suspicious guys who look like they might be committing a burglary / robbery is never a good idea, and it's much more preferable to let the police hash out what's going on.

Does this mean that the police treated Gates appropriately? Not necessarily, but it also doesn't mean the situation had anything to do with race as opposed to police overreaction and likely Gates overreacting to some extent as well.

Elie, you really lack reasoning.

Lady sees two guys breaking into home: FACT

She DESCRIBES THE MEN: FACT

They were black: FACT

So you should stop defaming the poor woman. I would love to live next door to her vigilance.

I didn't realize that blacks were above the law? they just need an excuse to cry foul based on their race. they are racist. the guy didn't respond to what the cops wanted, he's not above the law.

I've got no idea what Prof Gates and the cop said to each other. But I hope Prof Gates calls the lady who alerted the cops and thanks her. Vigilant neighbors who actually go out of the way to help people in their community are harder and harder to find in this day and age. Check out the video of the Asian American lawyer fighting with the guy who followed him home from a bar and assaulted him. The guy at the desk did NOTHING. Neither did any of the people coming in and out of the building.

Good article on the matter:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32085686/?GT1=43001

206 But the sad thing is "blacks really are convinced this was about race." Sure it may have been about race; but to them there is no question. They will not even consider this had nothing to do with race.

How do you know what Blacks think? You don't know shit. You are an idiot and you are talking out of your ass.. You speak for you. I speak for me. That's it. Don't assume every Black person who the Media trots out on TV speaks for Black people. That is one Black person giving his / her opinion. Blacks are not a monolith. I support a Dr. Gates but I know it may not have been about race.

Which is more likely - Wealthy, famous Harvard PhD married to a white woman (no less) father of mixed children claims racism. Underpaid townie cop sees (arrogant I will grant that 'Do you know who I am') black man in house he can't afford and power trips. No way a similarly situated white man is arrested.

I just read your stupid website about this. You fucking idiot. I hate you and this stupid website.

Will someone ELSE please start a legal blog about the job layoffs and salaries and leave all the liberal bullshit out of it.

Fuck you Elie

Elie,

I have to say that you've lost all credibility. Listen, I know that even if you point out a legitimate instance of racism to white people, they'll shoot you down and call you a bigot and accuse you of playing the race card. Nothing short of seeing black people getting their asses beat while marching across a bridge will convince most white people that blacks are still discriminated against. Having said that, your T/S article was ju

This whole thing is ridiculous. What evidence does Gates cite for the racial profiling? First, the cop had a bad tone in voice. Second, the cop looked at him after he handed over his Harvard I.D. And finally (the most convincing thing of all) it was "clear that he had a narrative in his head."

Read Gates own account:

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks

Nothing in his own account supports any suggestion that the cop was motivated by race. Gates himself admits that he wants "to make this a teaching experience." Completely made up controversy if you ask me.

Elie, save your outrage for cases of actual racism (which do exist). All this "crying wolf" only hurts your argument.

Elie, you disgrace this blog. If you want to talk about "classic cases," this is a "classic case" of someone using the bullshit race card when what they should have done was show some respect for the cops, calmly explain the situation and present whatever proof was necessary to convince the police officer that he, in fact, lived there. I don't know, but if I were breaking into a house and got caught, throwing up some bullshit race rant might be a good way to get the cop to back off. At least now, that is. It demeans the offensiveness of actual racism when you label acts of good police work, maybe even good neighboring, as racist.

212 says "No way a similarly situated white man is arrested."

You are a racist (and I rest my case).

Respectfully,

206

212, White weathy men INVENTED the "Don't you know who I am" response to the police - and tehre are hundreds, if not thosands of cases where that backfired on them and they were arrested. Look at Hollywood for a start. Ranted at the police = giving them an excuse to arrest you regardless of color.

I am from Puerto Rico and get some bullshit stops by the police. But I was raised to respect the law, to see them as an ally, and while all orgs have bad apples I always act respectful and, yes, kow my place. Because they are the police, and are doing their job. Gates should have known better, but as he was in teh heat of it (and tired from his trip) I can give him initial benefit of doubt - but his subsequant actions show he is playing race card, and the fool who wrote that true slant article sure as hell ought to know better.

212, White weathy men INVENTED the "Don't you know who I am" response to the police - and there are hundreds, if not thosands of cases where that backfired on them and they were arrested. Look at Hollywood for a start. Ranting at the police = giving them an excuse to arrest you regardless of color.

I am from Puerto Rico and get some bullshit stops by the police. But I was raised to respect the law, to see them as an ally, and while all orgs have bad apples I always act respectful and, yes, kow my place. Because they are the police, and are doing their job. Gates should have known better, but as he was in teh heat of it (and tired from his trip) I can give him initial benefit of doubt - but his subsequant actions show he is playing race card, and the fool who wrote that true slant article sure as hell ought to know better.

174 nails it:

"Of course Gates wanted to pick a fight, got one, and now is whining so he can capitalize from this. The cops shouldn't have arrested him but I think he's probably happy they did. He's getting a lot of mileage out of this and there seem to be no shortage of idiots out there willing to eat the bullshit he's shoveling out. The real tragedy here is that there are lots of people out there who actually are the victims or racial profiling and and their problems aren’t getting any attention whatsoever. "

- not 174

lol..what a surprise...Obama doesn't bring up any of the temper tantrum and sides with Professor Race Card.

Anyone see that shit?

Elie, how would you react to the following scenario:

An older, white Harvard professor and associate are seen forcibly entering the professor's home. A passerby, not recognizing the men, sees this happen and calls 911. The responding officer is young and black.

The white professor is abusive and uncooperative, yelling at the black officer things like "don't you know who I am" and "you're messing with the wrong person." Eventually, the black officer arrests the white professor for disorderly conduct. even though he's already determined that the white professor is in fact in his own home. Now just run that scenario through your head and ask yourself -- who would you sympathize with? The black officer, right? Tell me you wouldn't assume that the white professor had been rude, condescending or downright racist towards the black policeman.

212 says "No way a similarly situated white man is arrested."

You are a racist (and I rest my case).

Respectfully,

206
This makes no sense whatsoever.you made a point of some kind

212 is a racist because he thinks a white man in the same situation would not have been arrested? I agree, but I do not think the arrest was racially motivated. Gates acted like a jerk and an annoyed cop arrested him.
223 - I agree, but end result there would not be an arrest absent said professor becoming physical.

So here is what the majority is offering - A respected career academic, Dept. Chair at Harvard, suddenly at age 58 decides to seize the opportunity and play the ‘so-called’ race card and becomes a racial agitator. Really? No Really?!?!?

222: Obama appointed Holder as AG, the same Holder who infamously dropped charges against the Black Panthers for their voter intimidation stunt caught on tape that the DOJ had already won on default judgment. Somehow, I'm not surprised that despite his persona of being so enlightened and post-racial, that at some level, he plays favorites and is biased with the worst of them.

Or, if you want to be more sympathetic toward Obama, that he surrounds himself with people who will pull such stunts and make him look bad -- think Reverend Wright et al. I tend to be somewhere in the middle on what I think. Ultimately though, Obama is the consummate politician and it's much less controversial for him to take Gates' side than it would be for him to back the police. Therefore, I'm not surprised by his stance.

Barrack Obama and Eric Holder =
Stokely Carmichael and H. Rap Brown
Comedy

(some of you may need to look up Stokely Carmichael and H. Rap Brown on Wikipedia)

I guess it's not a great day to be Elie.

this guy is such a f*ckin p*ssy. "what, cause i'm a black man in america!?" um, no, because u should just shut the f*ck up and give the officer ur ID. be calm and explain the situation and not turn it into a white-on-black thing. man, i hate people like this. gotta love how the cop won't even apologize. haha. typical boston cop.

Elie- the little old lady who lives a few doors down from me saw a couple guys kicking in a door and went over to say hi. They kicked the shot out of her. Good thing she "did more" than call the cops. My god- you are so fucking dumb. Contrary to what you'd like to believe, the actions of ordinary people are not motivated by well hidden racism on a consistent basis. The simplest explanation is often the correct one. In this case, someone called the cops because two guys were kicking in a door. Get a fucking clue.

Quotes are froM Elie's "artcle", ALLCAPS ARE ME;

"Here are two important points to remember when assessing the situation:

1) The White Lady Was A Raving Idiot. There is no “good Samaritan exception” for this woman."
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? SERIOUSLY, YOU WENT TO LAW SCHOOL, RIGHT? IS THERE SOMETHING I AM MISSING? DO YOU THINK SHE IS GUILTY OF A CRIME?? OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A TORT? DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT A COURT WOULD HAVE ANY TROUBLE FINDING IN HER FAVOR. SUMMARY JUDGMENT WOULD BE A RIOT. ASSUMING THE FACTS MOST IN HER FAVOR, NO WAY IS SHE GHUILT TO ANYTHING. BUT A “good Samaritan exception” I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT CLASS. SOMEONE ENLIGHTEN ME IF THERE IS A LAW WHICH PROSECUTES PEOPLE FOR CALLING THE POLICE WHEN THEY SUSPECT A CRIME IS COMMITTED. OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT SHE KNEW HE OWNED THE HOUSE AND WAS CAUSING TROUBLE?

"Look at the detail she was able to give the cops: black men, with backpacks (!), attempting to force an entry." REALLY YOU SHOULD HAVE STOPPED THERE BECUASE YOUR LAST FACT, THE ONE ABOUT ATTEMPTING TO FORCE ENTRY, IS ALL THAT WAS NEEDED TO JUSTIFY WHAT SHE DID.

"But here are some other facts that a reasonably intelligent, non-racist person might have also observed and considered before calling the cops.

A) The potential crime took place in broad daylight. Do you know many (any) criminals that cruise around well-to-do Cambridge in the middle of the day looking for houses to rob?" IT HAS BEEN SHOWN, BY MANY OTHERS, THAT YES CRIME DOES HAPPEN IN DAYLIGHT. CAN YOU PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE HOW STUPID THIS COMMENT IS. IF YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO BE AT HOME, WHY NOT GO DURING THE DAY WHEN MOST PEOPLE IN WELL TO DO PARTS OF TOWN ARE NOT AT HOME. IN BAD PARTS OF TOWN, GO AT NIGHT WHEN THEY ARE PROBABLY NOT AT HOME.

"Even in that unlikely scenario, wouldn’t the would-be criminal be using some kind of lockpick device instead of just trying to break the door down with their bare hands?" AGAIN, NO EASIEST WAY TO BREAK IN, AND NOT GET CAUGHT, IS KICK DOOR IN. HAVING TOOLS TO BREAK IN MAKES ARREST MORE LIKELY, ESP. IF YOU GET STOPPED. THIS IS COMMON SENSE MAN.

"Not only was this lady prepared to believe that there are black people casing Cambridge waiting to break into houses, she evidently also believes that black people are really, really stupid when committing crimes." THIS SENTANCE IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR VIEWPOINT - EVERYTHING IS RACIST. SO SHE THINKS BLACK PEOPLE ARE STUPID, AND THEY ARE CRIMINALS, BECAUSE SHE SAW TWO PEOPLE BREAKING INTO A HOUSE AND MADE THE ERROR OF NOT ASSUMING THEY LIVED THERE. DO YOU EVEN SEE HOW STUPID THAT SENTANCE AND THOUGHT PROCESS IS?

"B) There was a cab right there, lady. Right there! Seriously, did she think it was a “getaway cab?” Whether the cabbie dropped Gates off on the street in front of his house or in the driveway, the cab should have been clearly visible to anyone bothering to look." NOW THIS IS JUST PLAIN OLD WRONG. YOUR ARTICLE HAS A FACTUAL ERROR THAT YOU SHOULD ADDRESS. REREAD GATES'S LAWYERS STATEMENT. NOT A CAB, A PRIVATE CAR. YOU GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT A YELLOW CAB WAS OUTSIDE. SO EITHER YOU SUCK AT READING AND GATHERING FACTS, OR YOU WILFULLY IGNORED THIS FACT TO "PROVE" YOUR ARGUMENT THAT SHE WAS RACIST. EITHER WAY, POOR, POOR ARGUMENT. NOW LETS ASSUME YOU CAN READ, AND TOOK THE TIME TO RESEARCH YOUR ARTICLE, ARE WE TO ASSUME THAT A NICE CAR PARKED OUTSIDE A HOUSE MEANS NO CRIME IS BEING COMMITED? WHERE DO YOU LIVE, I WANT TO BREAK INTO YOUR NEIGHBORS HOUSE. I'M BLACK SO YOU WON'T SUSPECT ANYTHING, BUT TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE I WILL COME DURING THE DAY, WITH ANOTHER NON-WHITE GUY, AND MAKE SURE I HAVE A CAR OUTSIDE. MAYBE A YELLOW CAB. AND I'LL MAKE SURE I HAVE BAGS WITH ME - BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD BRING A BAG OR SUITCASE TO A ROBBERY!

"C) Did she offer to help?" AND "In this lady’s situation, a simple “hey” or “yo” would have sufficed. If the men were really in the middle of a criminal act, the vocalization would probably have sent them running." I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK I NEED TO ARGUE ANYTHING HERE. I HONESTLY THINK YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID THIS IS BUT YOU HAD TO ADD SOMETHING. RULE OF THREE AND ALL THAT. BECAUSE IF YOU REALLY THINK THAT A WOMAN SHOULD APPROACH TWO MEN WHICH SHE, RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY, HONESTLY BELIEVES IS BREAKING INTO A HOUSE, THEN YOU HAVE BIGGER ISSUES AND BEING EDITOR OF THIS BLOG IS BEYOND YOU. NO ONE, NO COP, NO VICTIM SUPPORT GROUP, NO LAWYER, NO PRIEST, NO CRAZY MAN ON A SOAP BOX, WOULD EVER SUGGEST ANYONE APPROACH CRIMINALS IN THE ACT WHEN THEY HAVE THE OPTION AND ABILITY TO CALL THE POLICE.

"Since they were not criminals, they probably would have said “Hello there. Can you give me a hand here? I’m locked out.” A SMART CRIMINAL WOULD SAY THE SAME THING, AS OTHERS HAVE ILLUSTRATED ABOVE. AND A DANGEROUS CRIMINAL WOULD HAVE ATTACKED HER. SO SHE HAD, AT WORST A 2/3 CHANCE THAT NOT SPEAKING TO THEM WOULD BE BEST, AND YOU ATTACK HER FOR THIS?

"Are octogenarian, bespectacled black men like Gates inherently dangerous? IS HE 80? OR DID YOU THROW THAT IN SO THAT PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW HIM WOULD THINK HE WAS 80 AND IT MAKE YOU CASE BETTER. LYING, IGNORING FACTS, MISREPRESENTING FACTS ETC IS THE CRUTCH OF A POOR DEBATER. I FEAR THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE.

"Instead she called the cops because the men’s blackness prevented her from thinking like a rational adult." NO, IT HAS STOPPED YOU THINKING LIKE A RATIONAL ADULT. YOU SEE RACE IN EVERYTHING.

"(Note: I’ve been quietly writing this on a train from D.C. back to New York. There was a white gentleman sitting next to me, rudely reading over my shoulder until a few sentences ago. He just suddenly got up and moved to another aisle seat, 3 rows away from me, to sit next to what appears to be another total stranger – albeit a stranger with fairer skin than mine. If I had to guess, I’d say it was the “huge and powerful lips” line that spooked him. I’ll make sure I blow him a kiss if he’s still there when I disembark. )" WHAT IS THIS EVEN ABOUT? YOU ASSUME A WHITE GUY IS READING WHAT YOU WROTE AND ASSUME YOU SCARED HIM. YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ASSUME, RIGHT?

"2) The Cops Were Insulting And Stupid Too. I’ve had my brushes with the Cambridge police department. I’ve always been happy with my interactions with them (Boston Police is a whole different story). In my experience, they’re a pretty diverse group (as cops go) and I understand it was a multi ethnic group of officers that arrested Gates." LET ME STOP YOU RIGHT THERE, SO THE BLACK COP WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE ARREST, HE'S RACIST, RIGHT? AND THE LATINIO COP, RACIST TOO, RIGHT? CAN'T YOU STOP ALREADY! THIS IS A CLASS PROBLEM, NOT A RACE PROBLEM.

"A) Who would say, in the middle of Cambridge, “I am a Harvard Professor” who wasn’t one? " A CRIMINAL. A NON-CRIMINAL. AGAIN, 50/50 CHANCE.

"B) It’s called an apology. Okay, let’s say you don’t believe Professor Gates is who he says he is because you are bad at your job and you only watch PBS for the muppets. The man reluctantly shows you his identification (it really doesn’t matter how reluctant – if at all — he was to comply with your fundamentally idiotic request)." DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE IT WAS A "fundamentally idiotic request" FOR THE POLICE TO ASK A MAN IN A HOUSE WHERE THEY HAD BEEN CALLED TO, TO INVESTIOGATE A POSSIBLE BREAK IN, TO SHOW SOME ID? REALLY, DID YOU HONESTLY GO TO COLLEGE? HOW WAS IT IDIOTIC? AND OF COURSE IT MATTERS WHAT HE SAID AND HOW HE SAID IT, ITS WHY THEY ARRESTED HIM!!!!!

"At that point how do you not apologize profusely and get the hell out of his house?" BECAUSE YOU WERE DOING YOUR JOB. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way.

Elie = as racist as any KKK member. That won't get him fired, though. Of course not.

"The Constitution does not allow such speech to be made a crime. The freedom of individuals verbally to oppose or challenge police action without thereby risking arrest is one of the principal characteristics by which we distinguish a free nation from a police state." Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451, 463 (1987).

cops should have beat his black ass.

Why does the race of the woman who reported the crime matter? Because she's white, she's racist?

This is the best thing to ever happen to this guy, financially speaking. He will make millions on the talkshow circuit and selling his new book.

Mass. bar studier here: Generally, reports made to police officers about potential crime are privileged if made in good faith. I don't know what "good samaritan" laws you're talking about, as they mainly involve whether or not someone who comes to another's assistance could be held liable for negligently assisting the other. I bet the lady feels pretty stupid/terrible though.

"...will lead him to explore race in criminal justice."

How about I save him 3 years, marches alongside Al Sharpton and shakedowns of municipalities, and just give his inevitable conclusion that 'the Man discriminates against the black man, in a gross violation of civil rights and humanity; after 600 years of slavery, [something something]...'

GATES GOTS TO GETS PAIDS

people should boycott this piece of shit blog.

The people who write for this blog are the bigots. Yes, you know who you are.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1186567

Comment? Thoughts? You are all acting as ridiculous as Gates.

Elis is Homer Stokes from Oh Brother.....discuss.

The police arrested Gates after he had proven both his identity and right to enter the building. The relevant question is what Gates did afterward.

If he berated the officers in the street and continued to yell at them after they provided their names and badge numbers, he was clearly in the wrong. If, on the other hand, he merely "mouthed off" in his own home, he should not have been arrested.

It appears more likely, based on media reports that I have seen, that the former is more likely than the latter. However I love stories like these because they raise an interesting issue, which the blogger Steve addressed, referenced in post #56:

"Making an ass of yourself shouldn't get you arrested, but anybody over the age of three should know that you speak to policemen in quiet, deferential tones."

Is that true? Is it more true for minorities than others? Should minorities have to be more deferential than others when it comes to interactions with law enforcement officers than others?

As a normative point, we should not have to be. As a practical point we must be. Gates is clearly exploiting the situation. But if it changes the should/must gap, all the better.

BTW- Elie, please clean up your act.

235 - to the average black person anyone white is racist

Racism will never go away in this country because most blacks won't let it. Trust me, I'm not white and was called a racist by a black woman just because I looked at her (yes simply looking at her and I'm apparently a racist).

241, Well that's easy -

They are both hold racist views
They both believe the average person also holds these views
During a moment of apparent comfort they articulate their ugly views
They seem really shocked that educated people don't agree with them.

While we have no log to carry Elie out on, I get the point.

Elie thinks he is on Avenue Q, and that racism is everywhere. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Elie, I'm just going to assume that you didn't gather facts on the incident before coming to conclusions. For example, you seem not to have realized that daytime burglaries accomplished by breaking-in are actually one of the most common crimes, and the Cambridge Police had previously asked people to be on the lookout and to call if they see anything suspicious. You also thought a yellow taxi was outside, when really it was a private car idling out there. And you missed facts, like the fact that the woman's attention was drawn when the audible burglar alarm was going off for an extended period, and how she saw one person apparently acting as a "lookout" out front while another person walked around the house looking for points of entry. Who wouldn't call the cops and let them ask the questions and figure out what's going on?

I'm not sure how you missed all this. Maybe you read the races of the people involved and jumped to conclusions from there? (Heck, I don't think you even read the races--I hadn't heard that the reporting party was white. Did you just assume she must have been?) I guess racism isn't dead.

When will blacks finally put to rest the "plight of the poor black man"? Isn't enough enough already?

I know what house in Cambridge I'm going to rob tonight. My guess is that I'll have about 8 hours to go through every closet, desk, draw and corner of the house before the cops decide to finally show up because of the alarm "STILL" ringing!!! God knows the neighbors aren't gonna call the cops.

Elie and Lat, this is a crock of shit.

For the love of God, Elie, please acknowledge your foolishness. If you want anybody ever to take you or anything you write seriously, acknowledge that you shot from the hip and you might have been wrong.

245 & 248 are right on. Elie, you'd gain a lot of credibility if in a comment you admitted you missed some of the facts, apologized about it, and issued at least a partial retraction.

Also, the lady who reported the crime is a private person. Your unsubstantiated accusations that she is an unbridled racist seem defamatory to me.

This is a sad story. And not addressing the veracity of either side's claims, maybe part of Gates' problem is his poor understanding of the law. In the interview with his daughter, he complains about not being read Miranda rights. Police don't have to do that if they have enough to charge you and therefore don't need to question you while you're in custody. The charge was disorderly conduct, so no need to question him about something an officer (allegedly) observed.

Also, Gates repeatedly talks about the difference between staying in the house and going on the porch (and I'm not sure I follow exactly what he's getting at here). That might make a difference in a disorderly conduct charge, but if police suspect a crime is taking place, they can enter without a warrant. His comment that he will tell students not to just stay in the house may not be the best advice. Gates should stick to his knitting and leave the law to his more than capable lawyer.

As for the lady who called 911, even Gates said he would always want her to call the police. But how many people take a limo service to the house they plan to burglarize? How many people wear a blazer and bring luggage to the crime? How many people bring a uniformed accomplice? And was it daylight? You get the picture.

THIS SHIT WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED TO A WHITE PERSON. NUFF SAID. And all you white assholes who are like "i'm not really sure this was about race" are saying that because you have no point of reference for this shit because it doesn't happen to you. IDIOTS.

251, I question your knowledge of the law.

251 You need an arrest warrant to arrest someone in their home unless there is some kind of exigent circumstance. There was absolutely no such circumstance here. So when Gates says stay inside, he knows what he is talking about.

I think 251 is right on the law. Miranda rights exist solely to make subsequent confessions admissible. The officer wasn't looking to get a subsequent confession.

Gates thought the officer couldn't enter his home without a warrant, but clearly "exigent circumstances" justify warrantless entry to the home. Here, the officer received a report of a burglary in progress which alone usually justifies warrantless entry. The allegedly hostile or uncooperative response from Gates could have justified an inference that he was being held hostage or was a burglar, further justifying warrantless entry.

I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice, but it looks like 251 is right.

252: White persons are arrested for disorderly conduct every day when they are uncooperative with the police. You're totally wrong to suggest that a white person who is hostile and belligerent to a cop would be ignored. Maybe you're the one without a point of reference?

253/254: I think 251 is right. There certainly were exigent circumstances here: reasonable belief that there was a burglary in progress. That is one of the most classic examples of exigent circumstances allowing police to enter a home without a warrant. As for the Miranda warnings, since they exist only to preserve the admissibility of subsequent confessions, 251 one is right that they would serve no purpose here.

251 is wrong. miranda warnings are always required upon being in police custody. and "exigent circumstances" require knowledge of a felony occuring on the premises, a fleeing felon on the premises, or the presence of evidence that can be quickly discarded, like drugs. I am a lawyer.

256: there was no basis for the police to think any burglary was going on once he showed his id.

and point me to a case where a white person has been arrested on their own property for simply being agitated that they're at their house and the cops show up for no apparent reason. remember, when they showed up, he had no idea he had this "good samaritan" neighbor. I just want you people for once to admit your unconscious bias.

257: No, they're not -- stop getting your legal knowledge from Law & Order. And if you want confirmation (from Wikipedia):

"Due to the prevalence of American television programs and motion pictures in which the police characters frequently read suspects their rights, it has become an expected element of arrest procedure. In the 2000 Dickerson decision, Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote that Miranda warnings had "become embedded in routine police practice to the point where the warnings have become part of our national culture." Dickerson v. United States 530 U.S. 428 (2000). However, police are only required to warn an individual whom they intend to subject to custodial interrogation at the police station, in a police vehicle, or when detained. Arrests can occur without questioning and without the Miranda warning—although if the police do change their mind and decide to interrogate the suspect, the warning must then be given."

As other posters have pointed out, the police weren't / had no need to subject Gates to a custodial interrogation -- based on the charge of disorderly conduct, there would have been no need to interrogate Gates for any proof of it -- it was based on observable conduct by the officer(s) there.

And, wrong again on exigent circumstances:

"An emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect, or destruction of evidence. There is no ready litmus test for determining whether such circumstances exist, and in each case the extraordinary situation must be measured by the facts known by officials."

People v. Ramey, 545 P.2d 1333,1341 (Cal. 1976).

United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1199 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 824 (1984):

"Those circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of a suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts."

Prevent physical harm, as in two guys who might be breaking & entering into a building to burglarize or rob the residents -- seems to qualify to me. And serious damage to property, as in the theft of said property. Anyway, it's a friggin' facts and circumstances test, so your giving of a bright-line rule isn't accurate.

259, you are clearly NOT a lawyer, so shut the fuck up!!! you don't know shit.

and, 259, the fact that you're going to this effort to inaccurately analyze a body of law that I worked with for several years to "prove" that Gates is wrong, just proves my point about unconscious bias. Good Lord.

Lets just say that any defense lawyer or prosecutor would agree that literally before a judge the way I said it is the way it REALLY goes.

and getting your argument from Wikipedia!!!!!! Stick your head in a toilet and flush.

and getting your argument from Wikipedia!!!!!! Stick your head in a toilet and flush.

and getting your argument from Wikipedia!!!!!! Stick your head in a toilet and flush.

260-261: It's about as black letter as can be that police don't need to give Miranda warnings unless they're going to be conducting a custodial interrogation, which they clearly weren't in this case. They probably should, but since you're such a skilled attorney, explain to me what would happen if Gates brought that up in this case. There wasn't any interrogation to speak of, so what exactly would have been suppressed?

If you have case law that refutes that point of view, feel free to post it. Otherwise, your screaming that I "shut the fuck up," that you're some sort of legal authority in the area of Miranda rights, and that I'm a racist, doesn't exactly come off terribly persuasive. Remember, you're on an online bulletin board -- you could be the leading defense attorney in the country, or a kid in his parents' basement for all we know.

"Anyone in police custody and accused of a crime, no matter how minor a crime, must be given Miranda warnings prior to interrogation by the police." 468 us 420.

That there will be some kind of police questioning that can be characterized as interrogation--because the questioning occurs at a time that the suspect is not free to go and is in "custody"--is interrogation. In practice, any prudent prosecutor educates their cops always to Mirandize and cops screw this part up all the time.

SHUT UP.

Clearly 260-264 are the same poster with the same lame ad hominem attacks. He criticizes the other guy for citing from Wikipedia, yet he makes ridiculous declarations about being some expert in the field and provides NO evidence whatsoever that the law is the way he says it is other than likely made-up assertion that he's some expert in the field, and that we should all defer to his wisdom. Somehow Wikipedia < wild statements w/o any factual support whatsoever, and cursing the other poster out. Right, you stay classy 260-264.

UGH, i hate it when people who don't know shit talk like they do.

AND any prosecutor would tell you that the Gates situation doesn't even come close to what the courts mean by "exigent circumstances."

I am done talking with the stupid. Oh, and Obama got it just right. Those cops were stupid.

226: Dude, prior to INTERROGATION. What the hell interrogation would the police need to have conducted for a disorderly conduct offense? There's no questioning, because the police already concluded that Gates wasn't guilty of breaking into his house -- the entire arrest & non-reading of Miranda rights took place right as the cop was about to leave.

Yes, it's always better to give the Miranda statements to be safe, but explain to me, what would have been suppressed exactly, had this case when the court and Gates complained that he didn't receive Miranda warnings? At worst, it would have been said, yeah, it's better to give the Miranda warning when in doubt, but there would have been no consequence here to not giving it, because there was no interrogation.

268

Yes, backing up Obama, who himself admitted not to having all the facts behind what happened -- at least to me, it doesn't seem like wise judgment when you have to preface it with something to the effect of "yeah, I'm a good friend of Gates, and I don't really know exactly know what happened..." Seems like the prudent stance would be not to take a stance until / unless you have all the facts. But clearly, you'd rather not withhold judgment and start bashing the cops because you believe in the knee-jerk, it was the cops' fault, they were racist, you have unconscious bias despite all the surrounding circumstances pointing to a burglary of the building and that Gates was flipping out (witness the picture of him with his mouth wide open screaming) type of thinking.

235 - to the average black person anyone white is racist

Racism will never go away in this country because most blacks won't let it. Trust me, I'm not white and was called a racist by a black woman just because I looked at her (yes simply looking at her and I'm apparently a racist).

243 - Are you really that stupid or that young. One black woman calls you a racist = 'Racism will never go away in this country because MOST blacks won't let it.' That is your evidence One black woman calls you a racist.

Many people remember segregation and lynching, not heard about it, remember it. Keep that in mind non-white / non-black poster. Things are better now because of a lot of struggle by blacks, whites and browns.
Racism won't go away because although the vast majority of people are NOT racist, few people are willing to stand up and say that's not right when they see injustice. When Rodney King was getting his head thumped no one had the courage to prevent let alone stop the beating. But for the video people would have assumed he got what he deserved. (Rodney King was no saint I know people are going to go into his history.)

235 - to the average black person anyone white is racist

Racism will never go away in this country because most blacks won't let it. Trust me, I'm not white and was called a racist by a black woman just because I looked at her (yes simply looking at her and I'm apparently a racist).

243 - Are you really that stupid or that young. One black woman calls you a racist = 'Racism will never go away in this country because MOST blacks won't let it.' That is your evidence One black woman calls you a racist.

Many people remember segregation and lynching, not heard about it, remember it. Keep that in mind non-white / non-black poster. Things are better now because of a lot of struggle by blacks, whites and browns.
Racism won't go away because although the vast majority of people are NOT racist, few people are willing to stand up and say that's not right when they see injustice. When Rodney King was getting his head thumped no one had the courage to prevent let alone stop the beating. But for the video people would have assumed he got what he deserved. (Rodney King was no saint I know people are going to go into his history.)

271-272:

Yes, and we remember what happened after the Rodney King verdict. Does the name Reginald Denny ring a bell to you? Unlike King, he literally did nothing wrong (he was pulled from his truck and beaten down to point of permanent brain damage and aftereffects). Yet, Rodney King is the victim and barely anyone remembers Denny. Why is that again?

HE WAS AT HIS HOUSE AND SHOWED THEM HIS ID. HE HAS A RIGHT TO BE ANGRY AT HIS HOUSE.

It is so insulting and hurtful to continue to have to try to reason with people who live in their clouds because it doesn't affect them when it comes to racism. Go back to the clouds, but do us all a favor and stop trying to justify an unjustifiable position, particularly when you have NO personal experience with this kind of thing. Sickening.

274:

Just because the police acted improperly, doesn't mean that they did so out of racism. That's the major dispute most posters on here have. You're telling me this has never happened to a white person before? Or, that whites aren't also arrested for acting belligerently toward the police?

Had Gates chosen to emphasize the "police overstepping their bounds" aspect of his ordeal, he'd have a lot of sympathy and this would be a much more defensible case. However, the racism thing is where he loses a lot of supporters and credibility, especially as the two disputed versions of the events don't support the conclusion that Gates was nearly as diplomatic and polite as he makes himself out to have been.

to summarize: Gates is a moron.

To summarize: MysTTTal is a moron.

273 - You are RIGHT. I point to King incident only to illustrate that for many people brutality and profiling have to be that concrete for people to acknowledge they exist. Denny was a victim no question about it. There is no excuse for the way he was beaten. Would I have had the courage to defend him or at least speak up? If I was an officer on the scene of the King beating would I have attempted to stop the beating. If I were present and someone made an off color comment about another would I have the courage to say,"not cool??" I also say this, I speak only for me though some may agree. Every black leader who is trotted out does not necessarily represent me. I can speak and think for myself. ( BTW - I don't think I got to vote for these leaders) I don't assume white people are racist though I admit to being slightly guarded in my initial interaction. I do not walk around preoccupied with race nor do I say stupid thing like 'I don't see race.' The first thing I see is race then I judge person based on how they behave, cool? asshole? After a few beers I can get along w/ anybody.
Moral - Buy a black guy a beer.

Have no witnesses spoken up? Caller? Other?

278: I think the moral of the story is that everyone just needs to chill out. Objectively, what happened to Gates was probably somewhere in the middle of the two stories: He was probably giving attitude to the cops (in part because he was tired, he was coming back from a long trip, and he wasn't obviously doing anything wrong), the cops didn't appreciate that attitude and probably told him to cool off in not such a nice way, he didn't take that well at all, and there's your arrest for disorderly conduct.

Like you say, yes, it would be naive to ignore race completely, but there's nothing here that sticks out like a red flag about race being the reason why Gates was treated the way he was. I'm much more inclined to believe that it was a combination of Gates and the police not being particularly pleasant and cooperative with each other. That says much more about the balance between police duties & citizen rights and about basic civility than it does about racial problems.

There are still battles to be fought on the issue of race, but what happened here isn't one of them, and it only discredits real racism when stuff like this is called racist. In other words, it's a credibility thing -- society as a whole is much more likely to identify and condemn legitimate racism when the charge isn't thrown out there for every incident that takes place between people of different races. In contrast, incidents like this just reinforce the notion that we should take claims of racism with a grain of salt if a claim this tenuous is so legitimized and sensationalized by the media.

280 - I am going to make an assumption - You are of my generation somewhere between 20 and 40 yrs old. It is a little easier for us to not see the issue as racially motivated because of the world we grew up in. I guess I am inclined to be a little more understanding when someone of the prior generation feels slighted due to their race. I don't know, I guess I feel I owe them that because their efforts provided the freedom / opportunity I have today. Corny I know. I also don't believe a scholar would be so petty and self-serving to use this incident to further an already successful career. But who knows we have seen worse behavior by respected and trusted people.

"But the dignity code itself has been completely obliterated. The rules that guided Washington and generations of people after him are simply gone.
We can all list the causes of its demise. First, there is capitalism. We are all encouraged to become managers of our own brand, to do self-promoting end zone dances to broadcast our own talents. Second, there is the cult of naturalism. We are all encouraged to discard artifice and repression and to instead liberate our own feelings. Third, there is charismatic evangelism with its penchant for public confession. Fourth, there is radical egalitarianism and its hostility to aristocratic manners."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/opinion/07brooks.html?_r=2

Gates is a rich, entitled, effete intellectual. He--like many others in the upper strata of academia--believes himself to be above the fray. This controversy is about privilege, not race. If I were to break into my very expensive home and subsequently refuse on-site police questioning, I would consequences would follow. Would you care to guess my race?

post script--rarely has our president appeared so un-presidential. I had to go back and watch his speech in Cairo for consolation that he really isn't the person that spoke carelessly yesterday.

Gates is a rich, entitled, effete intellectual. He--like many others in the upper strata of academia--believes himself to be above the fray. This controversy is about privilege, not race. If I were to break into my very expensive home and subsequently refuse on-site police questioning, I would consequences would follow. Would you care to guess my race?

post script--rarely has our president appeared so un-presidential. I had to go back and watch his speech in Cairo for consolation that he really isn't the person that spoke carelessly yesterday.

Somebody should print out MysTTTal's posts and mail them to Gates's neighbor, so that she can sue Mystal for libel.

I would want 126 as my lawyer.

Embarrassing EM; the real facts were a quick google search away. Of course, I'm not naive enough to imply that you care about integrity.

Years ago when I worked for a very prominent attorney I had to go to his house and wait for the guy to come and do the termite inspection - my boss was in the process of selling his house. As I was unlocking the front door - WITH THE KEY HE HAD GIVE TO ME -- a black neighbor across the street quietly came up behind me and said "May I help you?" LOL Well, I didn't tell him his "MAMA" could help him -- I told him what I was doing there and he graciously left. If the neighbor had called the police instead of checking the situation out himself, I hope I would have had the common sense to act the same way I had acted with the neighbor. It's a good thing when neighbors look out for each other.

Ellie, do you seriously advocate little old ladies confronting potential burglars rather than reporting their suspicions to the police?

This idiocy is the epitome of racial bullying.

Ellie, you should have your race card revoked for taking this position.

251, here. I am a lawyer and I am correct. I didn't comment on what good police practices are. I'm sure it is a good practice not to antagonize and arrest someone like Gates who was just trying to come home after vacation and got understandably upset at the officer. Yes, I suppose all prosecutors would tell officers to Mirandize everyone. I simply said Gates was complaining about something the officer was under no legal obligation to do for him. The quote someone gave just illustrates my point. "'Anyone in police custody and accused of a crime, no matter how minor a crime, must be given Miranda warnings prior to interrogation by the police.' 468 us 420" Please notice the words "police custody" and "interrogation." Miranda is only needed for a custodial interrogation. The officer allegedly witnessed the disorderly conduct and then placed Gates under arrest. What was he going to question him about that relates to the crime charged? Nothing, ergo no Miranda. I know this is only a blog but some of you can't be real lawyers.

On the other point about warrantless searches, of course I was talking about exigent circumstances (did I really need to spell that out?) but I thought I made it clear that I wasn't sure exactly what Gates was talking about. If it was strictly about disorderly conduct, he's probably right that being in your house prevents them from charging you with that. But he mentioned teaching students this general idea of staying in the house. That's misguided advice and I'd think any 1L could understand that.

257, I find it hard to believe you're a lawyer.

Miranda warnings are only required for custodial INTERROGATION. If you do not attempt to elicit a statement- as you don't when you observe them commit a misdemeanor in your presence- you don't need to Mirandize them. In fact, even his spontaneous statements- the hollering and yelling- will still be admissible, because they are not in response to police attempts to question him about the crime.

Miranda has nothing to do with whether the arrest is legal. The only consequence of violating Miranda is that any statements obtained via interrogation cannot be admitted in evidence.

As for the arrest in the home: if the police didn't enter into the home to nab Gates, they did not even arguably violate Payton.

Hey Elie, looks like you got some splannin to do : http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/27/gates_caller_didnt_cite_race_police_say/

Are you finally going to admit you were wrong?

Have you left no sense of decency?