Guys at my high-school were notoriously absent from on campus interviews at area law-schools all the time, it was no big deal.

~FRAT STUD

It's Hunton & Williams HALL - not a building. Anyone who can read a map can see that.

grunton be sinking?

I suppose that I should know the answer to this question, but is the University of Virginia Law School accredited by the American Bar Association?

UVA student can come work with me. You can chose between mining and cutting down trees.

My clan has a very collegial work environment.

Zug Zug!

5 - Are you retarded, or just trolling?

Considering the Virginia bar exam is second only to New York and California in terms of difficulty, what do you think?

ELIE -

Please do a post detailing what OCI is looking like at the top 10 schools. % decrease in firms showing up, any major firms (like this story) not appearing at certain schools they once had a tight relationship with, etc. etc. This would be relatively easy to do (harvest data from students currently bidding) and would be interesting to read about.

My first guess is its a mistake, some firms are tardy in getting their act together.

If no mistake, this is HUGH, for UVA and H&W, considering the foundation of the firm in Richmond has so many ties there (Thurston Moore, Allen Goolsby, Parks, Wright, Howell, Slater, etc.) , no to mention many of the satellite offices.

But again, my first guess is that its simply a mistake.

3 - leave him alone. Elie is too big to fail.

Van Winkle would never have done this!

The ship be sinking...

7 - Second to two others makes it third.

btw, where do you get your data? I thought Washiington State's was harder than Virginia's.

11,

please get back to your glass blowing and pot smoking.

thank you.

I got to ask, does OCI take place in "Slaughter" hall? Cause that would seem disturbingly appropriate this cycle.

6 - What need doing?

5, 7 - UVA is not accredited, nor does VA have a "bar exam." It does, however, have annual cow-chip bingo.

Yes, a number of interviews do take place in Slaughter hall. And in case anyone was wondering, Slaughter LLP isn't coming to OCI at UVA this year either.

14,

No problemo!
(and stay off the coke)

- 11

To #7 - Strange, its odd that the Virginia bar exam is supposedly now so tough to pass. When I took the DC Bar exam in the 1980s, you had no choice as there was no waive-in allowed from other states into DC for attorneys without experience. A few years thereafter, DC allowed attorneys to waive in and the numbers taking the DC bar exam plummeted from 2000 to about 200; as I remember, there was a great rush to take the VA bar exam and waive in to DC so it couldn't have been quite so "tough" as you claim.

in fact, hunton has more than twice as many lawyers from uva as they have from any other school. either they are taking a year off from recruiting altogether or it's a mistake. i vote for mistake.

OGI, Elie. oGi

8 -

That would require Ellie to do actual work rather than just cutting and pasting from the WSJ. Give him a break, he has four chins to feed.

21-

Many firms are quietly taking a year off from recruiting. As has been noted time and again, the class of 2011 is screwed.

7 -
The only reason the Virginia Bar Exam appears to be "tough" is because graduates of Liberty, Regent, Appalachian State, and Richmond fail the exam in large numbers.

Much like this non-peer firm, UVA law school is an irrelevant institution. Although my firm has recruited from UVA in the past, we will no longer be partaking in UVA's oci. The H&W's of the world can have those misanthropic louts as workers.

Doesn't NY have something like 75 Tier 3 law schools?

Please do a post detailing what OCI is looking like at the top 10 schools. % decrease in firms showing up, any major firms (like this story) not appearing at certain schools they once had a tight relationship with, etc. etc. This would be relatively easy to do (harvest data from students currently bidding) and would be interesting to read about.

.

6 -

I don't know anything about cutting trees or mining, but I do know how to build farms, stables, towers, lumberyards, etc. I even made an Altar of Storms once.

You can ask my current boss Grool for a letter of recommendation.

This is HUGH!

DC bar is a joke - everyone wants to take the VA Bar so you get two-for-the-price-of-one, not because it's easier.

Ellie really is horrid. Everything he touches turns to cancer and madness.

This is what happens when you put a Miami Cuban in charge.

I heard Alaska's bar exam is pretty tough. They have 30 different causes of action for snow.

As a UVA Law graduate, it seemed to me that the place had two key problems not faced by other "Top Ten" schools that are ultimately driving it out of the "Top Ten". First, there is the in-state requirement (I believe 60 percent of first years must be state residents) which even top UVA Law professors have privately admitted results in about 2/3 of the class being competitive with the other Top Ten schools and the other 1/3 not meeting such standards. Second, the law school admits an incredible proportion of UVA graduates who fancy themselves "Ivy Leaguers" but who are in fact the products of a state college that is funded primarily by taxpayers. While the undergraduate is a comparatively good institution for a state college, Ivy League it ain't and all the feigned prep school accents, "The University" bumper stickers (Harvard was founded 200 years earlier), and snotty condescension based on nothing won't make it otherwise.

As a UVA Law graduate, it seemed to me that the place had two key problems not faced by other "Top Ten" schools that are ultimately driving it out of the "Top Ten". First, there is the in-state requirement (I believe 60 percent of first years must be state residents) which even top UVA Law professors have privately admitted results in about 2/3 of the class being competitive with the other Top Ten schools and the other 1/3 not meeting such standards. Second, the law school admits an incredible proportion of UVA graduates who fancy themselves "Ivy Leaguers" but who are in fact the products of a state college that is funded primarily by taxpayers. While the undergraduate is a comparatively good institution for a state college, Ivy League it ain't and all the feigned prep school accents, "The University" bumper stickers (Harvard was founded 200 years earlier), and snotty condescension based on nothing won't make it otherwise.

UVA law students are finally popping their collars in a sweaty search for jobs.

It's nice to see that UVA Law is now finally ranked lower than GULC.

26 -

Learn some English, you illiterate dickhead. It's "A non-peer firm," not "THIS non-peer firm."

20 -

If you can waive in to DC, then there is absolutely ZERO point in taking the DC bar. None. Nada. The fact that no one takes the DC bar has more to do with the fact that it would be a complete waste to forego the possibility of admission to two bars for the price of one and less (if anything) to do with the fact that Virginia's Bar is easy.

With that kind of reasoning, good thing you didn't take the VA Bar.

PE = Elie

27:

there are 15 law schools in ny state, 11 of which are in or very close to nyc. 3 of those 11 are top 50 schools and 6 are top 100. 5 are tier 3 or worse for sure and the total depends how you count st john's, brooklyn, yeshiva, and fordham.

Why would a peer firm like hunton and wms recruit at
West Virginia law school anyways?

36- I totally agree.

-Not A "Double 'Hoo", But Had To Put Up With Them For Three Years

In response to 35, I'm a UVALaw graduate...don't necessarily disagree with everything you say, but Ivy League undergrad is complete BS. The best students I recall were folks that graduated from big public schools (Illinois, Texas, Indiana, Binghamton (scarily) and even UVA - in fact, I don't think a single person on LR was from an Ivy League institution my graduate year, despite the large number of Dartmouth, Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Penn, etc. undergrads), as they had to actually work for their grades. Most of the folks from Ivy League schools were nice people, but trumped up honors doesn't get you far in a halfway competitive environment.

How's the party down on the hill, douchebags?

In memory of Michael Jackson, I will not pop my collar or play flip cup for the entire month of June.

-Rising UVA 2L

H&W has an unsustainable business model and essentially no reason to exist. Either the ship is sinking, or it is actively (read: desperately) seeking a merger partner.

This comment is addressed to the insolent cur from post no. 38.

Do you know what the subject of THIS thread is? Two institutions were named: H&W and UVA law. Did you catch that? My post was a reference to the non-peer firm of H&W, not just any non-peer firm. No wonder this generation of attorneys has been hailed as the true thinning out of the legal gene pool.

To #39 - the pass rate in DC when you had to take the DC bar to practice in the City ranged from 25-35 percent; I know many attorneys far more successful than I who failed it multiple times As I understand it, the pass rate in VA is usually in the 65-80 percent range.

25 -
Appalachian State is a university in North Carolina that doesn't even have a law school. Idiot.

Elie,

Fact-check a little more before posting something like this, please. It's worth noting that, in the past, UVA has had two On-Grounds (yeah, I said "Grounds") interview periods - one in August and one in September. Career Services rotates firms between each session every year. For example, Hunton & Williams may have been slated for the August session two years ago, or even last year, but switched to the September session this fall.

A well-placed phone call to someone in the know could have cleared this up and you'd either have (a) an interesting post with substance or (b) time to think about something else worthless to post about.

Cheers.

MW >>>> HW on VA-based big firm scale

25- Richmond has a better percentage pass rate than UVA on the Va. bar.

Elie,

Fact-check a little more before posting something like this, please. It's worth noting that, in the past, UVA has had two On-Grounds (yeah, I said "Grounds") interview periods - one in August and one in September. Career Services rotates firms between each session every year. For example, Hunton & Williams may have been slated for the August session two years ago, or even last year, but switched to the September session this fall.

A well-placed phone call to someone in the know could have cleared this up and you'd either have (a) an interesting post with substance or (b) time to think about something else worthless to post about.

Cheers.

22: You NAILED it!

Umm, when I took the bar last year, Richmond had about a 90% pass rate.

20/49 -

well certainly i can't verify those numbers. but, if true, congrats; dc's bar exam was a bear.

but you do realize you didn't mention of that in your first post (post #20) but instead blamed the mass exodus of dc bar exam takers on the virginia bar exam's lack of rigor. which, as said in my earlier, post makes no sense.

good job with the correction

50,

Appalachian School of Law (TTT) (Grundy, VA).

idiot.

To #53 - you're right, "Richmond" has a better pass rate on the Virginia bar than UVA Law School. But that is for two reasons: first, it is my understanding that Richmond Law School preps third years for the bar; UVA Law and other Top Ten schools do not although perhaps they should.. Second, quite frankly, by far most of the best UVA Law graduates (and overall great majority of its graduates) leave the state to practice; I assume that most of the Richmond students stay in-state to practice for whatever reason.

36 - as a fellow UVA law grad, I think you're somewhat mistaken in your description of the admissions process. As I understand it, UVA does not have quotas or set-asides requiring a precise percentage of students to be from in-state. Rather, the admissions department employs a complex formula which, in practice, essentially operates to break ties in favor of the in-state resident. So, for example, if a student from a top 10 undergrad school has a 3.8 and a 171 LSAT, they might have a 50% chance at admission if they are out of state but a 75% chance if they are in-state. As a result of the way that the formula operates, there are certainly a significant number of in-state students at UVA Law, but the idea that half or more of the students are in-state is just wrong. While it's not representative, my section several years ago had 32 people and I think that there were only about 5 or 6 folks who were in-state. While that may have been a bit of a low number, I would be shocked if the total number of in-state students surpasses 25-30%.

48 -

Only a turd writes as turgidly as you do. You are the poster child for indefinite usage.

59- percentage pass rate is based on how many take the Va. bar and how many of that number pass. not the overall percentage of all UVA grads who pass the Va. bar. UVA grads leaving the state is irrelevant.

UVA is absolutely brimming with douchenozzles, but so is Huntin' & Gruntin.'

I would think that pile of shit firm would be loathe to pass up the opportunity to re-stock their ranks with the a fair number of those bowtie wearing faggots.

49

You are an idiot. The DC Bar pass rate is so low because of DC School of Law and Howard Law students. It's wonder the pass rate is that high.

7-VA had an 80% July bar pass rate last year. It's not that hard.

To #57 - I'm not downing anyone who takes the VA bar exam as an option; you'd be a fool not to and to obtain reciprocity for DC. I strongly believe in abolishing the bar exam (won't happen as there are too many vested interests including the licensed attorneys who want to limit compettiion and the Bar review folks who would lose the biz) which should be replaced by a requirement that you graduate from an accredited law school. This is the situation in West Virginia for graduates of in-state law schools, although they also have a requirement in West Virginia in which you have to show that you can handle snakes at a church service.

60 - as another fellow UVA law grad ('09), I will tell you that there is in fact a quota, but it is not 60% as was the guess. The Virginia Assembly requires that 40% of every incoming class be from the state of Virginia.

Hey #9-

Who's HUGH?????

35/36--get your facts straight. there is no requirement at UVA, either law or undergrad. unlike UNC, the school does like to keep certain percentages, but is not required to do so. second, the school is not funded by taxpayers. it is funded by donors and its (for a public school) large endowment. if the state of VA actually dedicated the money to UVA that it should, it would be an even better institution. and third, people at UVA don't fancy themselves "ivy leaguers." they just like to have fun. get over the fact that, while they were out having fun, you were home studying contracts and jerking off. just because none of the hot girls at Buddhist would talk to you doesn't mean you should hate on the school so much.

H&W is recruiting at other schools. For example, they're on the "preliminary" list of interviewers at HLS.

Cravath is coming to interview at Oklahoma. Maybe firms are discovering that bottom of the barrel graduates from ivy league or east coast schools are not necessarily better than the top students from schools outside of the USNEWS "Top 10."

Uh #35: 40% of UVA first years are residents. The rest of your stats and opinions are equally suspect.

its still tbd if h&w will have a program next summer. uva isn't the only school sans h&w on their oci slate.

its still tbd if h&w will have a program next summer. uva isn't the only school sans h&w on their oci slate.

Q. How many kids do Jon & Kate have?

71 - dream on.

73: Where else aren't they interviewing?

@ 69. "They just like to have fun"?

wtf are you talking about? as opposed to those other people who hate to have fun? same vein as "i love to travel," or "work hard play hard."

makes my head hurt having to gang-rape these state-school retards whenever i appear opposite them in court. they really are an obnoxious bunch with an inexplicably high level of self-delusion.

To #69 - From your response, I see that the Legal Writing program at UVA Law appears to be just as mediocre now as it was when I attended that institution.

67 - I'm also a UVA Law grad - VA state law used to require each UVA law class to be comprised of a set percentage of VA residents. It no longer does - that was part fo the deal when the law school effectively went "independent" a few years back. The law school no longer takes state funding (in fact they are a net contributor to the overall UVA budget, allowing the udnergrad to take less state money), so the law school is no longer is subject to the set percentage requirement. I understand they still do give some boost to VA residents but it is discretionary and definitely not a quota. UVA undergrad still takes state money so is still required to take a set percentage of its incoming class each year from VA.

62 - you went to Richmond, obviously; so, I'll slow it down for you.

We all understand what a percentage is. But what the poster was trying to say (and I think did say clearly for most of us) was that the better UVA students take bars in other states (e.g. NY) and Richmond students are stuck in, well, Richmond and thus must take the VA bar.

I happen to think he's wrong about that, as most UVA grads go to DC and also take the VA bar. But I think the disparity can be pinned on a reason other than: "oh my god, maybe richmond students are smarter than uva ones." No. Sorry. Instead, Richmond clearly teaches to the bar, which is what it should be doing to help its students. UVA students, even though it's not the smartest thing to do, don't think about the Bar until about 7 weeks before they take it.

69 - Yes, there is a quota, both for UVA Law and for UVA undergrad. Judge Wilkinson went out of his way in his commencement speech this year to condemn a proposed increase by the General Assembly in that quota.

It is a huge issue every year in Richmond whether the quotas are high enough, and there is a staunch bloc of conservatives that think it should be raised (because they are idiots).

76 - Believe it or not, but states outside of the NE read the same textbooks, and even have Westlaw subscriptions. Learning the law is only partly about how smart you are; hard work is equally if not more important. Most of the concepts in law are only complicated because it requires a type of thinking different from that used in high school, and undergraduate institutions. Once one learns to think and analyze like an attorney, the information that guides our profession is not that complicated.

83 - sorry, even with the economy, firms would rather take a H/Y/S student than a non-T20.

And 41 explains why JDUnderground exists. Fifteen law schools and everyone wants a job in NYC.

83 = Litigator

Try tax law sometime buddy.

75 - trick question...Kate just pretends to have 8 kids, whereas John actually takes care of 8 kids while Kate flies around the country promoting herself and her "fabulous" hairstyle.

85

Last time I checked it was way easier to land a BigLaw job in NYC than in DC.

I think one reason the Virginia bar exam has the reputation of being tough is due to the many of the traditional anachronisms in Virginia practice and procedure, including the formal law-equity split that existed up until a couple of years ago. Also, at least as of a few years ago, Virginia had a very broad list of possible question subjects, at least compared to other states in the area.

As a UVA law grad, neither this post nor nothing else takes any pride away from me in relation to my law school. UVA boasts an elite legal institution and our professors and students engage in both high quality research, sophisticated jurisprudiential debate, and our stastically non-significantly different than other elite law schools (re: LSAT, arithmetic mean GPA). I find it absolutely hilarious that so many posters attempt to degrade the school - obvious there are a lot of sour grapes here. Face it, you couldn't get it, and you are bitter. There are reasonable debates to be had as to why an aspiring lawyer may consider going to other top schools such as Yale or Harvard, but many, many UVA law students turned those elite institutions down. Our graduates earn positions at the world's finest law firms, and the most elite clerkships in the legal profession. Also, and I admit it's somewhat subjective, but our day-to-day culture is unique and refreshing compared to that of our elite law schools (I know this because I visited them during admit weekends, and I have many friends there). UVA is steeped in tradition - a tradition of excellence and intellectual rigor, and that no one can challenge.

89 -

The law-equity split still exists in Illinois, where we have Chancery courts and Chancellors, but no one, other than Mayor Daley, contends that the Illinois bar exam is tough.

44 - I think you might be high. What you would like to say is that UVA's bright students do not only come from the Ivy League -- they came from state schools and other private schools, too. This bears out the research that shows that motivated, bright students will succeed whether or not they attend Ivy League schools. However, as a UVA alum, I can guarantee you that many Ivy League grads do also make Law Review. Though you are correct that the Ivy League grads at UVA Law may not be as hard core as their colleagues who went to HLS or Yale Law.

H&W Hall is a building. Single story, and it used to simply house student lockers and be the fourth side to the square. Complete with the nice, clean architecture and windows. In 2002, the student center was completed, which attaches to H&W Hall.

I am fairly certain that more of the graduating class sit for the Virginia Bar Exam than any other state, but I don't think it's over 50% of the class.

If you wanted an easy bar to use and then waive into DC, the choice is Maryland. Virginia tests on far more subjects, and while the questions aren't that difficult, the amount of information that you could be tested upon makes studying more difficult.

86,

Agreed. Tax law is a great alternative to normal social interaction and/or the sun.

90 -

UVA may be steeped in a lot of things, but after reading your comment, I can tell that the proper use of the English language is not one of them.

84 - Considering the struggles most firms are having, excellent job making 83's point.

63 -- "bowtie wearing faggots"? Why do you have to go there? It's never enough for you people...not enough to be nasty and mean...must also throw in a slur...I've officially reached my limit with ATL and the trolls who spew their venom in the comments. Peace out.

94 - you're engaging in abstract criticism, essentially a declaration without proof - exactly the type of reasoning that wouldn't stand a chance at UVA law.

Hillary Clinton, among other famous Washingtonians who are attorneys, failed the DC Bar exam (it caused her to move to Arkansas and to this day, she reportedly won't talk about it). It doesn't mean she isn't bright, in my view it simply means that the bar exam was and is a stupid and unnecessary test that very intelligent (and too often, overconfident) law school graduates can and do fail and which needlessly causes a lot of pain and psychological damage.

Large firms in our nation's largest cities, the majority of whom are staffed and run by ivy league graudates, are struggling significantly more than companies and firms that are not as large, and are staffed and run by those who worked hard and learned a lot in schools that are not considered "top tier." Coincidence?

82 - You're somewhat confused. Although he attended the law school and not the College, JHW's address during Final Exercises spoke to the folly of statutory in-state/out-of-state quotas in reference to undergraduate admissions, not the law school.

As Wilkinson pointed out, there is no current statutory quota for undergrad public institutions or graduate programs. But for fear of reprisals by state legislators, most colleges aim for 68-72% in-state enrollment. As pointed out earlier, since UVA Law no longer receive any general funds (taxpayer money), the school has no obligation to (and typically do not) hew to any particular resident admissions quota.

@99

I can't believe I'm about to do this, but you fucking spelled graduates wrong you IDIOT.

You're also mistaking correlation and causation.

@99

I can't believe I'm about to do this, but you fucking spelled graduates wrong you IDIOT.

You're also mistaking correlation and causation.

Smart people will tell you the DC bar is hard. It has nothing to do with where you went to school. Waiving in is like $600 and takes six months, so just do that. The CLE requirements are a joke.

People who point out spelling mistakes in posts on blog comment pages are infinitely more pathetic than the worthless people who write on blog comment pages with the notion that anyone actually cares what they think about anything.

92, I'm not high, and you're a douche (fortunately a minority at UVALaw).

I'm only expressing my experience, and my graduate year there were ZERO Ivy League undergrads on UVALaw, I'm not sure the total number in our class but in my small section we had 7 (out of 32), and 5 of those 7 were likely at the bottom of the class.

I know Ivy League people, I know Groton, Spence, Dalton, Exeter and other name-only schools from which they originate, Ivy League undergrad is worthless, in law school or anywhere else. At some point you have to stop sucking daddy's teat and do things for yourself, whether its at a hard core LS like Harvard, or a relatively laid back LS like UVA.

-44

@69 Fuck I miss Buddhist.

91, I'm unfamiliar with Illinois practice and procedure. When I took the Virginia bar exam and subsequently practiced there a few years ago, Virginia maintained a very strict separation between law and equity, beyond nomeclature. Equity and equity procedure was considered a discrete test subject on the exam, in addition to Virginia and Federal civil procedure. Virginia civil procedure was, for the most part, based on a mish-mash of common law and statutes as opposed to some adaption of the Federal Rules (with the exception of the Supreme Court Rules dealing with discovery, which were based on the Federal Rules). Many of the states in the region had moved to some adaption of the Federal Rules, so Virginia had the reputation among many recent grads as having a harder exam due, in part, to the need to learn a different procedural system in addition to reviewing Federal procedure and reviewing/learning substantive areas. Personally, I'm two-for-two on bar exams. I took Virginia first and feel that it was more difficult to prepare for, but it's hard to retrospectively compare. The only objective difference I can point to in preparation would be the number of potential test subjects and I don't know how Virginia stacks up in this area against any other states, including those generally considered to be the most difficult.

97 -
"Proof! You can't handle the proof." But let me provide a few examples:
"jurisprudiential"
"stastically"
"non-significantly "
"arithmetic mean"
"it" instead of "in"
"our" instead of "are"

44-

Why the misplaced hate on Binghamton? It's the best public school in the state, filled with smart kids from NY who won't or can't pay private school tuition or out-of-state tuition at schools like UVA (which is basically private school tuition).

uhh, richmond's bar passage rate is definitely not higher than uva's. 2008 stats for uva were 97% passage of va bar. not sure what richmond's was, but its usually around 88%.

fact checking would be good.

It cracks me up to no end that a lot of folks on this board and elsewhere cite USNWR rankings as sort of a debate-ending appeal to authority that cannot be trumped.

Have you folks read USNWR?

If yes, do you honestly want to base life-decisions and sense of self on the folks that turn out that magazine? Do you want to give off even the slight impression that you do?

Really? Read the magazine again.

If yes to those questions, I'd love to buy you a subscription to TigerBeat. It'd be worth my money just to see what havoc was wreaked on your I-pod playlists due to your blind adherence to its music recommendations and judgments.

Going to a top 3 USNWR school will open some doors that a top 10 USNWR school won't. And speaking very, very generically, you've got higher metrics (e.g., LSAT, GPA, etc.) at top 3 v. top 10. Same holds for top 10 v top 25, tier 1 v . tier 2, etc.

With that said, I'll take a top 5% grad from a tier 2 school over a middle-of-the-packer at a top 3 or top 10 any day of the week.

An Ivy League degree, at the undergrad or grad level, is not a Willy Wonka style "Golden Ticket." Or, on second thought, maybe it is.

THE SHIP BE STINKING

Peons,

Quit hating on The University's esteemed Law School. If you feel inadequate because a U.S. President didn't found your institution of higher learning, I apologize.

For those of you starting law school elsewhere in the T10 this fall, enjoy 3 years of the Paper Chase. See you when we both start work at the same place.

UVA grads FUKCING OWN 99.9% of you idiots!!!!!

107 - Separate courts for law and equity were abolished in 2006.

Da' poop be floatin'!!! (street version).

The "poop" is floating. "Poop" is a colloquial term for human fecal matter. (grammar patrol version, for the hordes of bored lawyers who love to flyspeck, of all things, blog comments).

DDo" pope be flating!!! (Elie misspelled version).

How do I monetize this floating poop by writing about it or, better yet, paying Elie to write (or wright) about it? (Lat entrepreneurial version).

All this shit sucks, floating or not. The economy is in the toilet and folks are losing jobs and houses. And our politicians are, on either side of the fence, not exactly confidence inspiring. I hope this turns out okay for me, my circle and everyone else. Best of luck, people. Buckle down and buck up. (human version).

Within the realm of peer firms, the adage that the "cream" rises to the top - a metaphor signifying that the highest quality and most valuable portion of the available resources will make itself apparent - has held, is holding and will continue to hold true. Within the leper colony that is legal practice outside of my immediate ambit and influence, however, it appears that, to be delicate, "scat" may be lighter than the tap water that bourgeois lawyers drink out of financial concern. I shudder. (partner emeritus version).

Having taken, and passed, two bars, I can attest to the fact that Virginia is disproportionately harder. This may have to do with the fact that there are more subjects to learn. But it may also have to do with the fact that you have to show up in suit and tie (as opposed to PJs). I'm much prouder of myself for passing VA, I know that for sure.

115, I know. I was just pointing to the old split as a wrinkle not present in most other states that may have contributed to any build-up reputation over time of relative toughness. Has the Commonwealth made any major changes in civil procedure aside from the law/equity consolidation? I always enjoyed getting the opportunity to file a "Motion Craving Oyer" back in my days there.

No matter. I'm sure Hunton & Williams will be at UGA.

109, wasn't hating, just saying that Binghamton undergrad are scary, that campus must have hit every branch on the ugly tree on the way down, I'm sure they have smart and diligent students like most big public universities, but I doubt you'll see "Girls of Binghamton" on the best seller list.

-44

here's another way to think about schools besides usnwr. IF you want to work for a big law firm (basically, AmLaw 200), UVA seems like a good place to start. it ranks 5th (behind yale, harvard, chicago, and michigan) in terms of what fraction of its graduates over the last 35 years are now partners at these big firms. if you just look at what fraction of alumni are partners at Vault 100 firms, it ranks 6th (behind yale, harvard, chicago, columbia, and stanford.) however, if you just look at what fraction of graduates are partners at Vault Top 20 firms, UVA drops to 10th.

you may not care about making partner at any of those firms. but if you do, there you have it.

Does anyone know if H&W is coming to UPenn St?

well put, 111.

44-

Ha. I'll agree with you on the "Girls of Binghamton" thing -- the biggest problem, for me at least, was that so many of the girls that were hot would gross you out once they opened their mouths with those Long Island voices/accents.

I must say, though, while Binghamton is no FSU/ASU/Miami/etc., average Binghamton girls are waaay better than average law school girls.

Kashlobster?

h&w is recruiting at gw. just patent folk though.

I'm not interested in getting into yet another debate about which state has the hardest bar exam. They're all fairly difficult; get over it.

As for H&W, they're just doing what many of us are doing: riding out this year by skipping most OCIs. My firm is avoiding most of these little events this year, but heading to Harvard to see if we can pick up a few more panicked Crimson kids than usual.

There have been many theories posted here as to the existence and extent of an in-state "quota" at UVA. Here is how it actually works, as learned straight from the administration of the Law School:

When the law school became "independent" and became a privately funded institution, it entered into an agreement with the main University that included several things. First, the University Provost retains final approval for all hiring and firing decisions, as well as decisions on compensation. Second, as essentially an "association" fee, the Law School must give 10% of its annual revenue to the main University. Finally, as part of that agreement, the Law School agreed to maintain an enrollment of approximately 40% in-state students. This does not necessarily mean that the 1L class each year is 40% in-staters, but it's fairly close. The "difference" is made up through 2L transfers...a process in which SIGNIFICANT preference is given to in-state transfer applicants, in order to ensure that the 40% threshold for the entire Law School student body is reached.

In my estimation, the 40% will soon (i.e., in the next couple years) be negotiated down so that the Law School can maintain it's status as a top ten school.

Hey, my buddy in career services just said that Orrick's not interviewing on campus this year. True or false?

But will there be some hot outhern Blondes at OCI this year? If so, the Sheriff would love to "interview" them. We can check out each other's briefs. And a hot girl saying "I miss ya'll (me and my balls, she means)" is way hot.

The Sheriff rides at UVA!

But will there be some hot southern Blondes at OCI this year? If so, the Sheriff would love to "interview" them. We can check out each other's briefs. And a hot girl saying "I miss ya'll (me and my balls, she means)" is way hot.

The Sheriff rides at UVA!

But will there be some hot southern Blondes at OCI this year? If so, the Sheriff would love to "interview" them. We can check out each other's briefs. And a hot girl saying "I miss ya'll (me and my balls, she means)" is way hot.

The Sheriff rides at UVA!

THANK YOU #128 for bothering to look into the facts about the quota, as opposed to spouting off half-remembered or made-up shit like everybody else. This is easily verifiable on the Internet, people.

You should all get back to work.

UVA rocks. And H&W will always be the best firm in Richmond.... but I wouldn't go to any of its other offices.

128 is right. Well stated.

Further, at UVA each interviewing firm is rotated to the September OGI every three years. It's been that way since they went to one-week intensive OGI in 2005. Even the big hitters have to get rotated. Skadden ran what amounted to a "dirty rush" in August when they were in the September group in '05, as I recall.

UVA is a law school that teaches law to students who pay tuition.

UVa Law is awesome. This fat piece of shit Mystal seems to have some kind of grudge against the school, but everyone pretty much agrees that he is a complete douche (which, he is), so we really shouldn't worry very much about that. If you want to go to law school, go to UVa. This post ISN'T EVEN VERIFIED. Ha. It's hilarious. This fatass hasn't even checked to see if the premise is TRUE. It really makes this blog look bad. ATL has really become a joke. Too bad David Lat turned it over to this prick.
Few are "defending," because few at UVa really care what all the losers on this site think. That should say something.

Great mention of the Skadden Dirty Rush of 2005. That was an epic tale - those chauffered to Keswick that year inevitably ended up paired with absurdly good-looking Skadden associates (ahem, for the evening). In fact, we were fairly certain some were model-escorts hired specifically for that recruiting trip. But, I guess with 900+ attorneys, you can hand-pick some decent looking lawyers. Ah, the golden days of yesteryear, before the economy went to shit and before everything Biglaw-related was blathered about endlessly on ATL (which did not exist).

Did UVA ever get rid of that useless career services dean (the red-headed guy) who was there when I graduated in 98?

138, I don't think Elie was trying to dis UVa. I think his basic point is that H&W and UVa are best buddies, so if H&W is not at interviewing at UVa then the firm is probably having some trouble.

The comments are another matter. There are many UVa haters out there. I think these comments come from folks who couldn't get into a top 10, or folks who have preconceived notions about the south. (This has always amused me. People prejudge southerners by believing southerners prejudge others).

140, nope. He is still there.

Did anyone ever confirm whether, or not UVA is accredited by the ABA?

I am a UVA Law alum and wish to set a few facts straight.

1. The school is full of douchebags. All of these reports about UVA Law students being "cool" for top ten law students may be true but, if you follow the same logic, getting the gold medal in the special olympics also makes you a "winner."

2. One of the previous posters stated something along the lines of, "uva is no longer subject to the laws of VA requiring X students." This statement is not exactly true. There is no law proscribing UVA from accepting a certain number of foreign students. However, in prior years, state funding was subject to the condition that a certain percentage of students were domestic. UVA no longer gives a shit and does not accept state funds. Nonetheless, the school still only takes a high percentage of in-state grads because the dean is chicken shit and afraid to piss off his friends in Richmond. Oh, and he charges out of staters an extra $5k for no justifiable reason.

3. The statement regarding staggered OCI is true. It is possible that H&W will make an appearance in a later round of interviews in the fall. However, the previous commenter(s) are wrong to state that the time of appearance is subject to the whim of UVA Career Services. Firms ELECT to come to campus at a later round - usually this means they are TTT or don't take the school seriously. The fact that H&M is not showing up for the primary rounds of interviews is significant.

a little late i know, but 58 should learn how to use the Internetz and discover that Appalachian State University (public UNC system school, Boone, NC) and Appalachian School of Law (private TTTT, Grundy, VA) are two completely separate institutions.

idiot.

144 - You have lots of good info. Thanks. However, if you are able, please also let us know if UVA is accredited by the ABA.

UVA is the best. Sorry to all the haters.

1) The majority of people who claim they are UVA grads on this thread then go on to bash the place are lying. Very few who go to UVA bash it. If you did, you were the kid in the class who wanted to go to Columbia, didn't get in, thought you'd transfer but got owned gradewise by all the people you initially looked down on. As for the others, you're simply lying. Give me one piece of info that only a UVA kid would know to prove otherwise. Oh, right, you can't.

2) Elie is a total douchewit. I suspect that his UVA hating has to do with the fact it's in the South, which, for someone as unsophisticated as Elie, constitutes per se racism. (Nevermind so many civil rights leaders were and are from the South.) Lat, the dude's an embarrassment. Please replace with someone good, or at least not crappy.

7 - 5 was a far better post than yours.

7=fail.

7 - 5 was a far better post than yours.

7=fail.

7 - 5 was a far better post than yours.

7=fail.

Buy Hutton calls on takeover speculation, or long puts because the ship be sinking? Am I Boesky or Einhorn?

80 - "comprised of" is bad grammar. I don't blame UVA for this per se, since you should have learned this before law school, but I am disappointed you made it through the screening process.

148 = best post on this thread

Everyone relax - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_fCqg92qks

148 = true.

"H&W will always be the best firm in Richmond.... but I wouldn't go to any of its other offices"

Funniest post I've ever read. Who - besides some dumb UVA rednecks - would want to live in Richmond? And H&W isn't interviewing at UVA!

I wouldn't invest my career in H&W any more than I would invest in Confederate bonds.

There is no second round of interviewing at UVA this year. All interviews are done in August, so H&W isn't coming in September.

Also, UVA just implemented a new software for the interviewing process. The search function is pretty confusing. It could be that H&W is interviewing, but Elie's two sources just missed it.

There is no second round of interviewing at UVA this year. All interviews are done in August, so H&W isn't coming in September.

Also, UVA just implemented a new software for the interviewing process. The search function is pretty confusing. It could be that H&W is interviewing, but Elie's two sources just missed it.

Everything in that building is named after me.

Scott Slaughters Spies

148 - I suspect the first part of your post may have been directed at me.

I am, in fact, a UVA alum. Here are a couple of pieces of information only a UVA law kid would know: (i) there is a clock at each long end of Scott Commons on the second floor level near the skylights; both clockfaces use roman numerals, and (ii) g-rob is the highest paid faculty member (ridiculous, I know).

More of your speculation is incorrect. I did get into Columbia, but I went to UVA because the school financed my education. My grades were fine, but that doesn't really matter coming out of UVA. You just have to not be a social retard, which is hard for many.

No one transfers OUT of UVA unless it's to HLS and I don't think such a move is a worthy investment. Transfers come IN to schools that are good at job placements like UVA, but they come from TTTs like Richmond. Transfers are confused to think they are as good as the regular admits when they weren't good enough to get in the first time. They will always be an underclass.

The "UVa in-state students are stupid" thing gets old. Quite a few of us were accepted at peer institutions, but chose Mr. Jefferson's university because of the beautiful town, the lower cost of living, a more cordial student body, and yes, cheaper tuition.

And even if in-state residency is a "plus factor," so what? So are lots of other things (race, gender, age, military service, attendance of parents, sexual orientation, etc.). Should everyone who graduates from UVa as something other than a 25 year old non-resident white male have an asterisk on their diploma?

161 - Certain regular UVA admits are confused to think transfers actually give a fuck what they think. They will always be douchnozzles.

UVA Transfer in cushy BigLaw job

Comment 144 is wrong, firms interviewing at UVA Law are now required to rotate between the rounds of interviews at least once every three years, although they can elect to come to the later round in any given year.

Hunton's back on the fall recruiting list. Email update went out today.

From 3:38 Career Services email:
"Second, a number of employers have signed up for OGI just this week. We have provided a list below. If you prepared your rankings previously, you may want to consider working these employers into your schedule. For example, contrary to what was reported on AbovetheLaw.com, Hunton & Williams is, in fact, interviewing during the OGI process and has been added to the system as of this afternoon. "

Hahahahahaha, ATL is TTT! Why do I bother reading this awful rag and these stupid comments?

Milbank, Tweed is not interviewing at Cornell's OCI or job fair.