I suppose that I should know the answer to this question, but is the University of Michigan Law School accredited by the American Bar Association?

"not yet been looked at" (!?)

Jesus. I hope her poor grammatical skills are not indicative of the skills of the admissions office in evaluating students.

3, she's just trolling to be the next ATL EIC.

Michigan is a graveyard.

UM undergrad alum.

Elie,
Contrary to what you say, Zearfoss never said ATL raised the issue with the ABA. Reading comp. pwnd.

Elie,
Contrary to what you say, Zearfoss never said ATL raised the issue with the ABA. Reading comp. pwnd.

You're welcome.

"Well, to be clear, we didn't raise the issue with the ABA"

She never said that you did, asshat.

Sarah Z. is the coolest person in the history of the world.

Wow, even an ATL non-reader is sick of all the "after the jump" crap.

Wow, she frames the question "are you trying to game the rankings system" Then, she frames the answer "we're not in violation of ABA standards." She must really have knocked the LSAT out of the park with that logic. Many critics of the program admit that it's probably not violating the ABA standards, but that's it's nevertheless shamelessly about boosting Michigan's numbers by allowing them to take applicants that would likely be high GPA, low LSAT splitters.

12:

The Law School was promptly criticized by some for "gaming" the rankings--****never mind that even the head rankings honcho himself said the 5 to 10 people we hope to matriculate couldn't possibly have an effect.****

12 -- you must've knocked the LSAT out of the park with your reading comprehension abilities.

Fuck you, 8.

And 3, I don't see a l a grammatical *problem* here, as much as slight inelegant syntax.

Dean Z for the win.

12-- see 13. OWNED.

The admissions staff at Michigan Law have wolverines in their trousers. It's really quite frightening.

13, 14, if the point isn't to game the rankings, then what's the purpose of the prohibition on taking the LSAT prior to receiving a decision?

I do not support Dean Caminker.

Dean Z is the best ever.

First to say I'm glad I didn't go to MLS. Third to say that Dean Z. didn't accuse ATL of complaining to the ABA. Moobs Mystttal wins again!

Sarah Z. got a 180 on her LSAT.

I think this is a great idea. For once a school can track students who are successful by all other measures, but have no LSAT data, and see how they compare. Perhaps Michigan will find that the LSAT scores were unnecessary to predict success, or perhaps it will find that LSAT scores are critical. Either way, this will be a good expirament. And using law students as lab rats - who doesn't find that the least bit satisfying?!

18: Of course, that's the point. Or, the point may be to use the program to admit minorities, who on average would probably perform worse on the LSAT, but may have received a high GPA at Michigan ugrad. And, given how flagrant schools are about keeping the percentages of minority matriculants consistent across years, this would result in Michigan being able to take applicants with much higher numbers during regular admission, but not reduce their percentages of blacks, hispanics, etc.

In other words, get the "advantage" of having just as diverse of a student body, but not suffer the hit from accepting too many splitter candidates with high GPAs and crappy LSAT scores. You can't report the LSATs of candidates who never took them, so why not target applicants who you think might not perform well on the LSAT (based on statistical data by race)?

The point is that people are more likely to donate to their undergrad than to their grad school. If Michigan can get more of its undergrads to choose Michigan Law School, they're probably thinking the students would be more likely to give to the law school, as well.

Plus, admitting them to a better law school than they might otherwise attend might mean more money to donate for Michigan Law and undergrad.

I'm stuck at "fanny" and really never wanted to go there. Yikes.

Because Michigan is a state school, they have to admit a certain percentage of residents. I think this is just their way of getting a certain cross-section of residents with good credentials, before other schools can bid for them. (Most other schools won't give you an offer if you haven't taken your LSATs yet.)
Plus the alumni donor thing.

And Dean Z. is pretty freakin' awesome.

"We are not in any way in violation of the ABA standards." Strawman. The allegation was gaming the rankings, not an ABA ethics violation. Moreover, was it not Pless of Univ. Illinois that decried the substantial impact a couple of underqualified applicants could have on an incoming class of 185. Multiply a couple of underqualified applicants by 5 and that 185 class size by 5 and this looks surprisingly similar to Michigan's situation. I believe Sarah Z. downplays this program's ability to affect rankings.

Genius at 29,

Yah, the allegation to the ABA was violation of ABA standards. Learn to read.

KIDS WITH 3.79 GPAs ARE STOOOOOOOPID!

18 and others who do not know Michigan state law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Civil_Rights_Initiative

Figure it out on your own from there.

Dean Z also clerked on the 5th Circuit and graduated top of her class from law school.

Why do people assume this would improve the school's ranking or game the system?

Yes, there are some bullshit majors at U of M undergrad. but chances are that someone with a 3.8 will do pretty well on the LSATs if they took them.

This is primarily because (a) the law school has been criticized and been the subject of complaints that it does not have enough U of M undergrads. This is an attempt to get the top of them who will be more likely to come if they can avoid the annoyance of preparing for the LSAT that they'd have to go through to go to another top 10 school. And (b) to get more donors like 25 said.

Sarah Z. trekked across the Mojave with only a water canister, a knife and a flint.

32: Yes, exactly. This is the Michigan version of Boalt's overeemphasis on GPA and socioeconomic factors (for example, you're asked on their application if you had friends on food stamps) that will enable them to take more minority candidates (in this case from UMich), but not technically run afoul of the law. If they can get half the Wolverine Scholars to be minorities, that means they can take less minorities regular admission and thus, their numbers will be stronger on average.

I've been having trouble sleeping lately, so I took some sleeping pills...just some generic stuff from CVS...and those things make me so horny. Then last night I fucked my secretary in the ass while on sleeping pills...it's quite hard to do it and not fall asleep, but I did it...and I'm proud.

34: The TTT law schools are filled students with high GPA from good ugrads that ended up getting 150-160 LSAT scores. There's no such guarantee (or even overly strong correlation) between having a high GPA and getting a high LSAT score. High GPAs are much more common than high LSAT scores -- and this is why most law schools value the latter more.

To disgruntled Mich Law student:

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps as a graduate of Michigan Law as a result of the very admissions which I provided, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you said "thank you," and went on your way.

Sarah Z.

34, I've never heard that the law school has been criticized because it did not have enough U of M undergrads. When I think about my particular section, there were about 100 of us, roughly a quarter were Michigan residents, and all but two or three were U of M undergrads. I never thought or heard they were hurting for undergrads from U of M.

Sarah Z is an eight foot two ton monster who can palm a medicine ball.

The federales had cornered Sarah Z. in the heart of the Sonoran Desert. They knew from the desperate gunfight in Hermosillo that she was wounded and out of ammo. Slowly, they crept up to the corner of the gulch...when the thunder of Sarah Z.'s six-shooters came crashing down on them, shredding them into guacamole. If they had only known how she had used the bat guano, sulphur and her own urine to create gunpowder, they would have ran all the way back to Ciudad Juarez.

40: No kidding. It's not too many U of M undergrads. It's too many U of M undergrads who are dragging Michigan Law's numbers down. Obviously, the Law School determined that the average UM Law matriculant from Michigan had lower numbers that the average UM Law matriculant from elsewhere. However, UM Law can't exactly cut back on its Michigan admits too much (doesn't want to alienate the University and as a public school, must take a certain percent of Michigan residents). Therefore, it just takes 10 Wolverine scholars per year, and 10 less Michigan ugrads with the net effect being it's 10 less students who would probably hurt its LSAT average.

43=Sarah Z

32 and 36 -- please cease with the analysis, as it has no place on a blog that has Mystal as a "writer."

Sarah Z once joined up with a group of filibusters heading into Mexico to wage an illegal war. She fought a running battle against a thousand Apache warriors and everyone in her unit but her was slaughtered and scalped.

Shouldn't the Michigan administration be more concerned about the rampant sandwich stealing at the law school? That's what is really hurting their reputation not the fact that they are gaming the rankings.

“Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia” was based on a…regrettable…incident from earlier in Sarah Z.’s life.

While hiking through the Arizona desert, Sarah Z. came across a group of ragged and weary undocumented aliens that was lead by an especially cruel smuggler, or "coyote." Using the knowledge she had acquired from her Sisters at the Coven of Bryn Mawr and the sharpest of focus, she summoned a mighty storm that simultaneously struck down the despicable dog while quenching the group insatiable thirst with its deluge. Once the rain had ceased, stalks of corn, or maize, erupted from the ground, allowing the beleaguered bunch to craft their traditional dish, the tamale.

8 = Narc

The LSAT model is dying a slow painful death (testing bias against minorities, "test mills" cranking good results and awful students, etc.). Schools are now trying to find alternative ways to find quality applicants. A relative of mine would have been immediately disqualified from admission if based upon LSAT scores alone. But he has enjoyed a successful run in private practice and appointments to the state and federal benches. So what standard do you apply to find him and other unconventional students?

Wow, what a cutting edge blog. Yawn.

I hope Michigan Law crashes and burns. The school is sh-t and deserves to fall in the rankings.

-- alum still paying off loans

(Yes, I am serious you lurking Mich Law administrators. And I tell all my Michigan Law fellow alums to not send you money.)

LOL at the Sarah Z stories! She seems to have a sense of humor, from her letter. She should get a kick out of these comments.

51: Name an objective measure of merit that isn't allegedly biased against minorities.

The only alternative is wishy washy soft factors, and we know how that works -- buzzwords like "experience," "perspective," etc., which just translate into blindly taking minority applicants just because they're minority applicants, and not because they show particular academic promise. It's not a coincidence that even with affirmative action, etc., most minorities finish in the bottom 1/3 or 1/4 of their law school classes. School mismatch effect anyone?

53 - you are a disgrace and I suspect will wander through your life blaming others for your mistakes and the random misfortunes all of us encounter on this planet. Go away. You won't be missed.

56,

Just so you know, I trash Michigan Law with a sad shake of the head and a heartfelt sincerity, to make my attack seem more credible. I even say things like "As an alum, I wish I didn't have to say this but..." Really evil stuff!

I tell others that, despite successes I have as a professional, I feel the institution where I started is rotted out and held up by past glories. The faculty are not what prior generations were, the students are not up to other schools' standards, and---let's face it---Michigan as a state is totally finished. As a result, The level of sophistication of the school is simply going away. Then I mention positively how Northwestern, Penn, Georgetown, NYU, etc all seem to really be going places, and certainly should be above Michigan now.

Judges. Lawyers. I say this to them all. I tend to get nods of agreement. I will keep doing that for the remainder of my legal career. Michigan deserves it.

I hope that really grates your cheese!

--53 and loving it!

(I hope that fat tuition you charged me spent well, Michigan Law, because it is really gonna cost you! lol)

I can't believe this! The nerve of some schools...

While nobody knows the exact time or location of Sarah Z's birth, she was found by a vaquero under a stand of cacti approximately one solid day's ride from the Nogales border . Despite her infancy, Sarah Z had managed to train a pack of coyotes to bring her fresh meat upon which she had sustained her life. The vaquero noted her fortune as, having gone through a dry hunting spell, Sarah Z had just eaten the last of her faithful coyote.

34- ". . . chances are that someone with a 3.8 will do pretty well on the LSATs if they took them."

So true. But people here don't understand that in Michigan you can't just take the LSAT, you have to take the three secret LSATs as well. Obviously, this is a horrible burden to place on good students. Good for UM.

OK, UMich defenders. Explain to me what the good faith rationale is for forbidding this set of applicants from taking the LSAT. Not remaining neutral on the LSAT. Not gently encouraging away from. FORBIDDING. There simply isn't a good faith rationale. The only explanation is that they're trying to game the rankings. Mind you, I'm not a UMich hater. I loved the school and almost went there. But this is egregious, and as well-liked as the dean of admission might be, she's putting an inoffensive face on something that's obviously rankings-motivated. It's shameful.

IT'S NOT RANKINGS-MOTIVATED! As 28 said, without an LSAT score, these "Wolverine Scholars" can't throw over Michigan for a better-ranked school. Likely, by the time they get their decision, it'll be too late to take the October LSAT, so they'll either go to Michigan, or be forced to wait a year and take their chances with admissions elsewhere.

IT'S NOT RANKINGS-MOTIVATED! As 28 said, without an LSAT score, these "Wolverine Scholars" can't throw over Michigan for a better-ranked school. Likely, by the time they get their decision, it'll be too late to take the October LSAT, so they'll either go to Michigan, or be forced to wait a year and take their chances with admissions elsewhere.

The LSAT is biased against minorities? Give me a break.

The only people against whom aptitude tests are biased are people with no aptitude.

The little children came to Sarah Z. and said, "We are hungry. Feed us." But Sarah Z. had nothing to give them and she wept. She told them: "Be patient. I will make some food. Then your little bellies will be full." But she kept weeping.

To her first son, Sarah Z. said, "Tomorrow at high noon, you must take hold of my hair and drag my body over that empty patch of earth. Drag me back and forth over every patch of that earth until all my flesh has been torn from my body. Afterwards, take my bones, gather them up and bury them in the middle of the clearing. Then leave that place."

Sarah Z. smiled and said, "Wait seven moons and then come back, and you will find my flesh there, given out of love, and it will nourish and strengthen you forever and ever."

So it was done. The children dragged Sarah Z.'s body to and fro as she had commanded, until her flesh covered all the earth. They took up her bones and buried them in the middle of it. Weeping loudly, they went away.

When the children came back to that place after seven moons had passed, they found it covered with tall, green tasseled plants. The plants' fruit-corn was Sarah Z.'s flesh, given so that her children might live and flourish. And they partook of Sarah Z.'s flesh and found it sweet beyond words. Following her instructions, they did not eat it all, but put many kernels back into the earth. In this way Sarah Z.'s flesh and spirit renewed themselves every seven months, generation after generation.

Remember and take good care of Sarah Z.'s flesh, because it is her goodness become substance. She has given her life so that you might live. Yet Sarah Z. is not dead, she lives: in undying love she renews herself again and again.

I need a guy like PE around me. I need him around me all the time.

- Frank Lopez

63, why would UMichigan care if an applicant with a 3.8 and good LSAT score spurned Michigan if it weren't rankings motivated? Yield is a factor in these rankings. With this program, UMich gets to lock people down, before they take an LSAT and get a score high enough to temp them elsewhere (benefits yield), while at the same time UMich avoids having to deal with a low LSAT/High GPA admit, which, because of state laws, would likely be admitted anyway, and consequently avoids having to report a low LSAT.

I hope you didn't buy the incredibly flimsy cover story put forward by the Dean of Admin. If you believe that, you should be a priest, not a lawyer.

"IT'S NOT RANKINGS-MOTIVATED! As 28 said, without an LSAT score, these "Wolverine Scholars" can't throw over Michigan for a better-ranked school. Likely, by the time they get their decision, it'll be too late to take the October LSAT, so they'll either go to Michigan, or be forced to wait a year and take their chances with admissions elsewhere. "

People take practice tests before they take the actual one. They get a general idea of what they're capable of scoring. If they're capable of going to a better school, they aren't going to take this deal and will take the LSAT.

If, however, they don't score high on their practice tests, they'll jump at this deal. That's the people you're going to get. Especially depending on the major, a 3.8 really isn't that difficult (just a matter of work) compared to the upper 160s and above, the top 2-3% on the LSAT, which even when you do work at it, you're either capable of it or you're not.

Dean Z is the best. The 180 LSAT and top of her class claims happen to be true (she'd never tell you, but her classmates will), and she is fun(ny) as hell. One of the brightest spots of my law school career.

Dean Z is the best. The 180 LSAT and top of her class claims happen to be true (she'd never tell you, but her classmates will), and she is fun(ny) as hell. One of the brightest spots of my law school career.

Dean Z is the best. The 180 LSAT and top of her class claims happen to be true (she'd never tell you, but her classmates will), and she is fun(ny) as hell. One of the brightest spots of my law school career.

Guys, it's a cold and cruel world out there and if you're really this shocked and in denial that your law school would be doing this just to improve its rankings, I pity you.

72, it is a cruel world. But as far as I can tell, there are not that many "top flight" law schools that stoop to shenanigans like this.

73 "But as far as I can tell, there are not that many "top flight" law schools that stoop to shenanigans like this. "

Hey, I'm not defending it, all I'm saying is that the UMich defenders would be well served by becoming a little more skeptical of claims of altruism in stuff like this.

74, point taken. You're dead right. 73.

Hey, Michigan is no Moritza after all.

Hey, Michigan is no Moritz after all.

Guys with an undergrad GPA of over 3.5 never got laid in college.

-- Penn State Frat Stud --

Appellation School of Law is to University of Michigan Law School what Appellation State football is to Michigan football.

78,

Guys with an undergrad GPA of under 3.5 at a [relatively shitty] public school are pathetic. Congratulations on hittin' some ass who's only at your school because she was in the top 10% of her graduating high school class of 45 students in Elk County.

Very truly yours,

Your "Peers" from Private Schools

80, that was completely incoherent. I hope someone didn't buy your way into Amherst or something. Based on that sentence, I would say you went to Burlington, Villanova or GW. Congrats on your "achievement."

Sincerely,

Community College Grad

I am confused--
do these wolverine scholars--gee those 2 words were made for each other--have to study like animals and stuff.

I mean what if they want to focus on badgers or mollusks? stange majors in fly-over country.

Don't state schools have a sense of pride and character?

I guess Michigan 3.8's tank on the lsat or go elsewhere.

what transparent moral rectitudial dysfunction

UMich Law Admissions = Rectitude Fail.

Michigan is a state.

23, that was irrelevant. They probably already have mounds of data on Michigan undergrads and their success (or failure) at Michigan Law. They can slice and dice all that data and exclude the LSAT. What's your point exactly?

29, I'm with you. I have trouble believing there is no impact. You get kids with better GPAs and you improve your yield. This has to give them some advantage.

34, even if they would do well on the LSAT, it still improves their yield and therefore their selectivity. That's a plus for the rankings. Selectivity plays a small part in US News (it arguably should play a larger part), but it's still relevant.

78 and 80, you're both idiots.

Just a general comment to the LSAT haters. There's nothing wrong with the test. It's a perfectly valid. Too much emphasis is probably placed on the LSAT. That's the problem. That's generally why I think selectivity should be weighted more heavily in the rankings than it is now.

FYI "fanny" means "vagina" in Australian English.

209, 209, 209.

And the Blood Meridian, genius.

Funny that this law school bitch thinks that it's beneath her to read the law blog that's read by every law student in the country.

89 = Elie's Mom

89 = Elie's Mom

Clearly, this is not a problem at the Michigan State College of Law.

Will any non-URMs be admitted under the Wolverine Scholars Program? Of course not.

This program is simply a repackaging of unconstitutional affirmative action in UMich Law admissions.

Will any non-URMs be admitted under the Wolverine Scholars Program? Of course not.

This program is simply a repackaging of unconstitutional affirmative action in UMich Law admissions.

Is Michigan Law a prestigious firm?

I guess the good dean does not like primary sources.

Her whole response and attitude is so disingenuous.

Oh no we are not gaming the system--liar!

I have not read this site--liar!

Proletariat deans--the only thing she has to lose are her chains--because this is below dignity.

Dean know your audience--this is not the Grand Rapids Jaycees/alumni group.

I think wolverines are interesting critters--
is it hard to scholar them?

Go Buckeyes.

Mystal,

I am a Michigan grad and take offense at the way you down-talk U of M Law. Well Mr. Harvard grad, please post your LSAT scores and put to rest the rumors that you are an affirmative action beneficiary. Given your relatively affluent upbringing (relative compared to the rest of your race), you should not have received any of the benefits of race-conscious admission policies.

100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go Gators

#99, do you really have any doubt that Elie Mystal is an affirmative action beneficiary? Based on his poor reading comprehension and failure to write correctly, I ballpark his LSAT at about 160. That may be a bit generous. When one's job is to be an "editor," yet he is corrected routinely on basic grammar by people who just skim his writing, I must doubt his ability to write. 160 is well above "retard," to be sure, but not good enough for anyone not black and not named "Elie" to be admitted to HLS.

To be fair, almost every schoool is gaming the system. If you trust the rankings at all, a pox on your house. I mean seriously... Duke reports 100% employment for its graduates. The only time I met Duke grads was when I was handing them $5 to wash my scrotum.