Michigan Law Graduate Complains to ABA About ‘Wolverine Scholars Program’
Last September, the University of Michigan Law School announced its Wolverine Scholars Program. The program allows the law school to admit University of Michigan college students who have a 3.8 GPA — so long as those students don’t take the LSAT.
We were critical of the program. We wrote:
Look Michigan, if you are going to try to rig something, at least have the decency to do it under the cover of darkness.To a UM college student with a 3.8, the Wolverine Scholars Program looks like an interesting example of game theory. But to the rest of us, it looks a straight bribe. It’s like Michigan Law School is saying: “Please, please, please don’t take the LSAT. Because if you get a 167 we probably have to accept you anyway. And if you get a 175 you will better deal us for a lobster dinner.”
We weren’t alone in our criticism. Indiana University professor Bill Henderson also panned the program:
The lofty rhetoric of the Wolverine Scholar program cannot be squared with the unnecessarily rigid admissions criteria. In my opinion, the only rational explanation is that Michigan seeks a rankings payoff. Here, an elite law school sets a new low in our obsession of form over substances — once again, we legal educators are setting a poor example for our students….
Above the Law’s critiques of the Wolverine Scholar Program are now a matter of record with the American Bar Association thanks to one Michigan Law graduate. Details of his complaint to the ABA after the jump.
So far, Michigan hasn’t been shamed into changing this program, and U.S. News does not seem inclined to do anything to prevent Michigan from gaming the rankings. So I guess the graduate figured that taking the matter to the ABA was the next logical step:
Dear Consultant on Legal Education of the American Bar Association Hulett H. Askew, and Others in the ABA Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar Whom It May Concern:This missive is a complaint about a law school from which I was graduated, the University of Michigan Law School or “Michigan Law School” (hereinafter, “MLS” or “the Law School”) in Ann Arbor, Michigan. (By the way, I authorize the Consultant on Legal Education to disclose this report and my identity to the law school discussed in the report.)
The complaint is about the “Wolverine Scholars Program” at MLS and its apparent violations of ABA rules, plus its damaging effects on legal education and the welfare of law school applicants, effects to be described below. Due to those violations and effects, the complaint suggests that the ABA consider sanctions against MLS, including denial of ABA accreditation, under Section 16 or other appropriate ABA regulations, until that program has either ceased or been significantly altered so that it no longer violates ABA rules and causes the undesirable effects.
The heart of the argument is that the Wolverine Scholars Program violates Standard 503 of the ABA rules:
Violation of Standard 503The policy above, most notably the restrictive stipulation that “In order to be considered for the Wolverine Scholars program, applicants must not have taken the LSAT prior to receiving a decision from the Law School”, is a violation of “Standard 503” from the ABA 2008-2009 Standards for Approval of Law Schools; the Standard is reproduced below for your convenience,
“Standard 503. ADMISSION TEST
A law school shall require each applicant for admission as a first year J.D. student to take a valid and reliable admission test to assist the school and the applicant in assessing the applicant’s capability of satisfactorily completing the school’s educational program. In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test
Wow, with alumni like these, who needs buckeyes?
The complaint is 24 pages long and extensively cites some of the criticism the program has received, including Above the Law’s September post.
Will the ABA act? I don’t see the ABA taking a hard stand against a top-ten law school over this issue. But you never know. If enough people complain Michigan might find the Wolverine Scholars Program more trouble than it is worth.
Wolverine Scholars Program Complaint.docx [Word.docx]
Earlier: University Of Michigan Law School: Please Stop The Insanity
(137) 
Comments
Figgiti-FIRST!
Captain FIRST!
First to say -- Michigan to TTT in 2011!
We dont give a shit!!!! Report on the summer associate shenanigans at Steptoe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another spin on LSAT: "please don't take the LSAT because if you get a LOW score we don't want to admit you and take a hit our our admissions statistics."
Another spin on LSAT: "please don't take the LSAT because if you get a LOW score we don't want to admit you and take a hit our our admissions statistics."
Go Bucks.
The whole US News ranking crap is really screwing up law school admissions. I visited a "top ten school" and sat in a class. I couldn't believe how incredibly stupid some of the students answers were to the professors questions. Don't get me started on the whole entitlement some of the students felt, about how it's so easy to get a job from that school as they are all so great.
With those writing skills the kid should be grateful Michigan gave him a degree.
Michigan will counter with the MLSAT, which consists of three multiple-choice questions that they disregard. 503 solved!
I am against the Wolverine Scholars Program. I had to take the test in 1963, score a 760 and still sweat the admissions process. Why should these spoiled brats get any special treatment?
O. H. ?
This is the first I've heard of this. I'm a Michigan Law alumnus and I'm embarrassed.
Alternatively, this can be seen as a method being employed by a school with an established record of excellent legal education to shift the admissions paradigm away from its slavish subservience to the LSAT. A non-top 10 school wouldn't have the necessary muscle to make such a move. Arguably, Michigan doesn't either; maybe only Harvard and Yale do. But I'm surprised that some of the commenters on this site who are consistent LSAT detractors aren't out in force on this one.
Oh, and I do not attend, have not attended, and have no plans to ever attend any school at the University of Michigan.
I O
So Michigan is allowed to speak about lobsters, but we are not?
Fuck that.
12 - get a job in a town that has an ISP and you won't have to be embarrassed ever again.
Upon additional consideration, if UM adopts the Wolverine Scholars Program, the school will fall far from the prestige tree in my eyes. Does UM really want to become another Georgetown or UVA?
Or it's a way to bypass prop 209.
Or it's a way to bypass prop 209.
Does anyone give a damn for the whole state of Michigan?
PE,
I don't think many of us are familiar with the old LSAT scoring system, although I'd assume your 760 would be equivalent to a 178 under the current metric. Would you elaborate?
The ABA is a joke. Accredited schools don't teach you how to be a lawyer. They basically just waste your time for three years and take your money. The whole system is messed up, so who cares if UM wants to forget about the LSAT?
First to say the complainant (herinafter "jerkwad") is a douchebag (hereinafter "d-bag" or "douche") notwithstanding any of his arguments on the merits.
I did not realize people still hired from Michigan. Students there are slow like the football team . . . ..
MUCK FICHIGAN and FUCK PARTNER EMERITUS so he will no longer be a virgin.
3 - share with the group!
Not enough SA shenanigans stories this summer...
Rule 503 seems pretty cut and dry to me. I hope they lose their accreditation. Of course, if giving Anne Coulter a law degree didn't do it, nothing probably will.
19- you are right. this is a strategy to allow Michigan to admit students who do not belong (at least from an LSAT score perspective), but serve some "other" function (minority/affirmative action, legacy admit, big donor, etc)
Seton Hall has a program like this. Instead of having a 3.8 you have to have a 2.8, and instead of not taking the LSAT you have to have a criminal record.
It has upped the number of applicants from Hudson County 300%
The person filing the complaint is probably some entitled ass that had shitty grades spent two years cramming for the LSAT to make himself look good enough for UM Law.... and now he's pissed that it won't get weighed as heavily.
Here's the way of the world kids - Michigan will stay in the top ten and the people they admit will be no less qualified than the people they admitted before. The idiotic and overbearing focus on the LSAT that all schools have bent over and taken for decades is finally showing some sign of letting up.
And for all the idiots saying Michigan is doing this for the rankings. Duh. But you got the ranking they're trying to boost wrong - GPA is the stat that needs boosting and what better way to raise it than take kids Michigan clearly thinks are smart enough to handle it (ie: kids who handled UM undergrad) and give them a leg up.
- 2L who actually took the LSAT
PE = LIAR, where the fuck are you? It's between 1-3 and you're not at Rick's. Instead you're commenting on ATL. You lose all credibility.
11=14
It can also be seen as a method being used by a school that's been on the wane (Michigan once had a legitimate claim to being a top 3--no I'm kidding about that) to fudge the numbers to get back there.
Say what you will about the LSAT, it's standardized. Little else in the law school application process is.
No matter the pedigree of your undergrad, no matter whether you took hard classes or basket-weaving fluff, no matter the extracurriculars you pad on, or your social background, or race, or gender, or legacy status, etc., the LSAT offers a clear cut way to compare one student and one entering class to another.
When schools want to play around with all these "soft" factors, they learn to hate the LSAT (especially when they can so easily fudge other aspects of the US News ranking). It's for this reason that I like it. You could make the argument that, maybe, it should be longer (it's kind of silly that the answers to 2-3 questions on it can make such a big difference in applying), but it is needed and it's needed for the exact reason that some law schools hate it.
PE is washed up, has hit rock-bottom, and is no longer relevant.
Does it really matter? None of the idiots going to law school now are going to get jobs anyway...
Who gives a shit about some pissant law school drama? Michigan has a law school? I'll tell you what they have! Michigan has Rich Rodriquez you Buckeye Bitches! GO BLUE!
The students had to take the SAT, which is a "valid and reliable admission test."
The students had to take the SAT, which is a "valid and reliable admission test."
36,
42-7. Bitch.
This comment is addressed to post no. 21.
I am afraid I cannot answer that question right now as I am about to go into the VIP lounge for a private afternoon show with Charlotte and Vivian. Cheerio.
Sent from Partner Emeritus' Touch Pro 2 smartphone.
Hey, Moobs McGee, it's UNIVERSITY OF INDIANA. I hate when retards make that mistake.
Hey, Moobs McGee, it's UNIVERSITY OF INDIANA. I hate when retards make that mistake.
I hope Michigan crashes and burns.
-- Michigan Law Alum still paying on loans
31 PWNED Partner Emeritus.
"But you got the ranking they're trying to boost wrong - GPA is the stat that needs boosting and what better way to raise it than take kids Michigan clearly thinks are smart enough to handle it (ie: kids who handled UM undergrad) and give them a leg up."
A 3.8 is hardly uncommon and hardly difficult for Michigan to get. Getting a 168 LSAT is a lot rarer. For that matter, being smart enough to handle the coursework has little to do with it. With current curves, low fail rates, and the prevalence of past outlines floating around, a train monkey (once admitted to a top 10) could graduate.
What schools have going for them are selective admissions policies and their reputation/prestige (as stupid as that may be). Michigan's laxity in the former category has been hurting it's status in the latter category for a couple decades now.
45: "168 LSAT"? I think you meant to say 178.
http://www.michigandaily.com/content/proposal-would-ban-legacy-programs
This complaint (aka missive, aka report) is written like a gunner 1L who thinks the way to write effectively is by using lots of defined terms (including multiple ones for the same damned thing!), extra long sentences with extraneous qualifiers, and lots of self references to the writing itself. Not to mention absurdly long salutations. Precision comes from getting to the point quick and not confusing it with bullshit. It does not come from thowring in every word and the kitchen sink. Douche.
Oh, and 14 = 11. GO BLUE.
Wow, the administration at the Michigan State-Ann Arbor campus have reached a new low.
Dear Michigan-Haters,
The assertion that Michigan is trying to "game" the US News Rankings is laughable. Michigan has nothing to prove. It will remain in the top 14 schools--moving between Berkeley, UPenn, UVA and other comparable schools. Schools that game US News are trying to break into the top 50, not move 1 meaningless spot above a comparable school.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if UM does decline in the coming years given its location in the graveyard of the U.S.-- Michigan. The state is economically decimated.
UM's continued presence in the top 14 is a testament to its reputation and history. Imagine how hard it is to keep great professors there over places like Chicago, Berkeley, New York, and Philadelphia.
29 - Seton Hall is in Essex County. Fail.
If I get an 11 on my LSAT, can I get into Seton Hall?
To 50:
Wrong. Mich. profs stay in MI due to its low COL index, not the academic reputation or history of the school.
"University of Michigan Law School or "Michigan Law School" (hereinafter, "MLS" or "the Law School") in Ann Arbor, Michigan. (By the way, I authorize the Consultant on Legal Education to disclose this report and my identity to the law school discussed in the report.) "
Way to create a defined term and then fail to use it in the next sentence. This ship be sinking?
52
Get in? Double digit scores get you a law review position!
40 -- second best PE comment ever. Best was yesterday's comment re the wedding dance video.
52, The ability to write a tuition check to Seton Hall without it bouncing guarantees admission to Seton Hall law. Getting double digits in the lsat puts you at the head of the class.
agree with 49
3.8 GPA is almost impossible in hard science majors like chemistry - this is allowing TTT english, political science and philosophy majors into MLS who cannot get jobs and are biglaw drones. on the other hand my chemistry 3.3 GPA was good enough for a T20 law school and a V50 firm. Merck, GSK, and J&J don't have a problem with me drafting their patent applications and I don't have to worry about doing doc review and remaining employed.
was this even a consideration?
53,
I disagree with your point since most professors (especially the younger profs) at UM end up moving to Chicago, NYU, etc., to escape the small-town vibe of Ann Arbor--but I don't have data to disprove you.
Nonetheless, my first point still stands. The top 14 is almost entirely static--it is the same schools every year. The schools switch spots from time to time. Yale stays at the top. Harvard, Standford, Columbia, Chicago (and now NYU?) in the middle, then UVA, UPenn, etc.
Assuming Michigan was trying to game the system, at best, they get a 1 spot boost or break a tie with another school. Who cares about that?
I think Michigan started the program, in part, to avoid Proposition 209.
55 & 57,
Thanks guys. I recently took the LSAT and the lowest they said I could get was a 120. However, when I got it back my score was an 11. I applied to Seton Hall really late in the process (yesterday), and am very nervous about getting in. You've helped me feel secure that I will be a member of the 2012 Seton Hall Class.
-52
PE
I am an attractive 25 year old female upcomming 3L. I have been deferred until 2012 by what is clearly not a peer firm. This is bad news for me. I would be willing to do anything, absolutely anything to work at your amazing firm. I do not require an associate position. I could even be a paralegal or a secretary. Hell, I would even be the "hood" ornament on your "ride." Perhaps I would even consider being a custodian so you could wipe the floor with me.
How do I apply?
59 - And your 3.3 GPA will still be good enough at Michigan if you can get the LSAT to back it up. They aren't refusing students who don't hit the 3.8 mark - they are rewarding the ones who do ----- big difference. High enough LSAT, good enough recommendations and resume and Michigan will still snap people with a lower GPA up just like they did before.
This is clearly an attempt to game the rankings. If you take someone with a 3.8 undergrad GPA and don't have to factor in an LSAT score, you raise your GPA avg without lowering your LSAT median.
If Michigan were truly trying to challenge the relevance of the LSAT score (as other commenters have suggested), it simply would disregard the score in its admissions process. Instead, it has mandated that to be accepted into this program, one cannot even take the LSAT. The reason is clear-Michigan does not want to include the LSAT scores in the data it reports to US News.
While I normally only let Yale law graduates cut my grass, I think I can be generous and let a Michigan law grad do it once or twice.
65
I didnt know that ivory towers had lawns
Not true 64.
It is not simply about the rankings, but rather about avoiding a situation where intelligent, motivated, Michigan students are denied admittance to the law school. Michigan has consistantly expressed a desire for UM undergrads to place in UM grad schools if they make the cut.
Not to mention that Michigan most likely operates under the belief than anyone smart enough to get a 3.8 from their undergraduate school will be smart enough to succed in their law school. There is some logic to that.
Simply removing the LSAT from consideration leaves no safeguard for students from other undergrad institutions. While Michigan likely operates under the assumption that it takes a certain caliber of student to get a 3.8 from UM undergrad, they have no idea what caliber of student it takes to get a 3.8 from IU, Florida State, U Hawaii - you name it.
The LSAT still serves an important role, but keeping smart UM students out of UM law school isn't that role anymore.
47, I'll up the ante with:
http://www.michigandaily.com/content/student-seeks-line-ballot-primary
Everything about this guy screams "major douchebag." If he's against the Wolverine Scholars program, it can't be all bad.
I feel sorry for PE's mom.
This whole debate is stupid (as is the awfully written 'missive').
- UM Grad with a 3.8 and a 170 LSAT that turned down UM Law School for scholarship at a T10.
And what about Michigan resident who applied to Michigan Law with a 3.8 GPA and 169 on the LSAT. She falls in the median range but won't be admitted because the girl who went to Michigan undergrad got her spot without completing even one logic game. Bitter, yes. Thoughts?
41/42 it is in fact INDIANA UNIVERSITY or IU.
Professor Henderson techincally teaches at Maurer School of Law at Indiana University. http://www.law.indiana.edu/
Signed
IU-Law 07 grad
Methinks Michigan Law is about to get a lecture from "Bucky" Askew, bow-tie and all.
70 - Michigan is a T10 law school you pretentious douche bag.
Do not shit in my mouth and tell me its raining, @68.
74 - who said it wasn't, ass hat? Read much?
This doesn't sound much different than the formula at T10 schools. Everything is computed by a formula based on: 1) GPA and 2) LSAT. This results in nerds with a sense of entitlement expecting to be spoon-fed summer associate positions in biglaw based on the fact that they studied more than anyone else in college and had the money to take LSAT prep courses. At least Michigan's program allows the poor kids who studied more in college to get into a good school as well.
-3L at T10 who partied during college and drank the night before the LSAT
What is the over/under on number of states in which PE is listed on the child sex offender registry?
71: She'll get into UVA, Boalt or UPenn State and thank Michigan later for getting out of that god forsaken state.
78
He wouldnt get on a registry with me. It would be consensual. And probably legal. But so very dirty and wrong.
62
Thanks for the link, 64 - I lol'd at "winning is not a direct indicator of success . . . "
Georgetown Law has a similar policy. There is a program for Gtown undergrads which allows them to apply to Georgetown Law during their junior year without ever taking the LSAT. I'm not sure if there is a GPA requirement or a stipulation that students cannot take the LSAT, but it still sounds similar.
66
I would never have a tower made of ivory, as I love elephants. I live in a chrome ziggurat, with a beautiful lawn composed of dandelions (which gets me in trouble with the local ziggurat owners' association).
65
Ann Arbor is looking for a few good people to work for the Dharma Initiative.
78 - PE is on on more registries than Zsa Zsa Gabor (different type though).
How can one square this policy with the very high LSAT requirement for Michigan? What happens if an applicant is not a good standardized test taker but happens to have a 3.8 GPA? This seems like an admission from an elite law school that the LSAT is not perfect. I hope law schools in general start to question the undue influence the LSAT has in the admissions process. The test is not a reliable indicator for all applicants.
3.8 undergrad = douche
Why doesn't someone lobby US News to take into account "# of students admitted with no LSAT score" as a factor in the rankings? If this is such a big deal.
Or maybe LSAT shouldn't be a factor in law school rankings? After all, a school that admits 140 LSAT/1.5 GPA students and spits them out as shiny, awesome lawyers should be regarded as BETTER than a school that admits 170 LSAT/3.8 GPA students and outputs the same quality lawyer? No?
What kind of douche sends an attachment as .docx?
Learn to use your Word for Mac on your PowerBook and 'save as' .doc so the rest of the world doesnt have to convert.
This is stupid. Getting a 3.8 in a major like English/Poli Sci/American Studies (i.e., law school by default majors) is pretty damn easy.
I guarantee you most of the people who qualify for this program would not score well enough on the LSAT to get into UM.
PS--Rodriguez is terrible. Fear the Vest.
I think the issue is that US News is a bunch of media dipshits who think they have the expertise required to provde an assessment of what it means to be a good school.
To be honest, if I had to rank magazines, US News would probably be a Tier 3 at best. The only thing their known for is ranking shit. Who actually buys US News and reads it?
Tier 1: Time, Fortune, Foreign Affairs, Vogue, GQ, Forbes, Sports Illustrated, Robb Report
Tier 2: Businessweek, Cosmo, Entrepreneur, Golf
Tier 3: US News, Highlights, Ebony, Conde Nast Portfolio
86 is as stupid as most of the posters on this story. If you admit a bunch of 3.8s without LSATs, you can simply admit some lsats without gpas. The 3.8 can balance a lower gpa, and if that lower gpa is accompanied by a very high lsat you are all the better because there are less lsat scores, so the high one counts more to the average numbers. This is actually an example of a law school putting MORE emphasis on the lsat for most people, while giving a little nugget to their undergrads. (most of whom do not have 3.8s)
Studies have shown the LSAT to be the most accurate predictor of law school success. It should be required. Period.
I agree with some of the posters above that Michigan is not really doing this to game the rankings, although it does help a small bit. It is in a position where it will continue to move up and down only a few spots and has solidified its reputation. It is actually a very wise move on the school's part (in terms of their long-term bottom line). You have to remember that the law school is only a part of the larger university structure. Students who attend UM for both undergrad and law school are likely to be more loyal as alums (and hence will be donors and involved in other alumni activities at a higher rate, especially than law students who tend to feel more of a connection to their UG school). The alumni development offices (and not just at the lower law school level) love these people.
Correction to 91: "... they're known for"
OMFG! I know that guy! I went to Michigan Law while he was there! He was never in any of my classes, but I saw him out at a couple of bars in Ann Arbor. He used to dance with his shirt off (he wore a vest, so he wasn't exactly bare chested). Weird, weird dude.
#92, you ignore the fact that indeed some of the 3.8 students admitted under this program may very well perform poorly on the LSAT.
# 93, the LSAT should be required. Though, it is not without flaws. It is not 100% accuate. Its place in the law school admissions process is the problem.
#92, you ignore the fact that indeed some of the 3.8 students admitted under this program may very well perform poorly on the LSAT.
# 93, the LSAT should be required. Though, it is not without flaws. It is not 100% accuate. Its place in the law school admissions process is the problem.
PSA:
1. U Michigan has a $7 billion endowment.
2. The law school just spent $100 million on an expansion.
3. U Mich gets almost $1 billion annually from outside research $$ (federal, foundations, etc.)
4. The State has been in decline for 40 years, this is nothing new. UMich has maintained excellence.
= UMich runs itself, it's like an autonomous corporation. It IS and WILL REMAIN solid.
If enough professors leave to threaten the T10 status, the University will up the arms race, but given the current stalemate, why initiate such an expensive practice? The law school endowment alone ($300 million +) is greater than several national public research universities.
MICHIGAN LAW is not in decline nor is it in ascendency. It is and will remain a T10 school.
Should know this but is the University of Michigan's Law School accredited?
97 you ignore the fact that if they perform at all on the lsat they are not eligible for the program
101 I think he means hypothetically, they would perform poorly. Everyone in here is a critic, jeez.
101, that is not the point. Many applicants exist (and I am sure there are some at UM) who have very high GPAs and perform poorly on the LSAT. It is a way for them to avoid taking the test and to get into law school.
102
i am 92/101
he called out my analysis with bullshit.
There is no way the ABA will act. Michigan clearly did not violate the policy. The rule is written so as to not indicate that the LSAT is the only test that can be used (an SAT/ACT score is fine). Why is this alum wasting so much of his time? Guess a UM degree didn't work out all that well for him...
Also, this brings up a major class issue facing schools today. Many of my friends at a top 5 undergrad school (who are wealthy) took extremely expensive LSAT classes that helped them essentially game the test (which really is what they did since I took a Kaplan practice test with them beforehand) and get into T14 schools. I was lucky to be able to get there on my own, but I know many other people just as smart without the resources to do this. I will be interested to see in the next few years if the LSAT is as good a predictor of success as it has been in the past with so many more people learning to game the test.
Many colleges are seeing a similar problem with upper-class students and SAT prep, which is one of the reasons even some very good schools no longer require the SAT.
67--you're full of crap. They could simply ignore LSAT scores in their admissions process for UM graduates with a 3.8 and accept them regardless of that LSAT score. No one would have a problem with that. Instead, they are absolutely gaming the system in order to have their cake and eat it too.
A number of upper level schools game the stats--thus the recently higher % of transfer students admitted as cash cows that do not affect rankings, but allow the schools to retain good statistics, with the trade off being an inferior program all around.
104, you can call it whatever you want. Your analysis is seriously flawed.
106 and 64: Exactly. It's a prohibition on taking the LSAT if you want to be considered for the program. It also prevents 3.8 students from consideration at other law schools which require the LSAT, but that doesn't seem like a huge tragedy to me.
This debate is crazy. Michigan clearly values having a strong connection to the university and is probably right to financially and in terms of educating a small number more of the state's best law students. It hasn’t done anything against ABA guidelines, which I’m sure were written rather carefully. I don't hear too many people yelling about legacy admissions though, which affect a far larger number of slots for those of you thinking "your place" was taken… or does it make you feel better that it was taken by someone who had an LSAT at the 25th percentile after 6 months of preparation classes. Too many people seem to think that they are entitled to a spot solely because of their numbers.
There can’t be too many top grads here because the discussion is pretty pathetic. Seton Hall bashing, really?
Georgetown Law has an "Early Assurance" program for Georgetown undergraduates. It's basically the same program as the "Wolverine Scholars" program; both programs exempt applicants from taking the LSAT.
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/admissions/ApplicationProcess.htm
Where are the posts lambasting Georgetown?
109--
No jealousy. Just privilege on top of privilege pisses me--and most people--off. You and others suggest there was no violation of Standard 503: so what admission test exactly did these students take then? What were the test results? Yeah I thought so.
It's bad enough that the gate keeper is flawed (and we all know it is). Now only certain people have to use the gate while others can use a convenient other door.
106
Can Michigan not keep their LSAT up without this program? BLS doesn't even stoop this low.
Props on including Bill Henderson in your analysis. He is at the forefront of empirical analysis of the admissions/rankings scene - use him more often.
PE, you fucking loser. Haven't you realized that playing your virtual persona all day on ATL is as bad, if not worse, than playing Second Life, Sims or Dungeons and Dragons? Of course, ou probably play all those too.
111, the law school would have access to the students' university files, which would include SAT/ACT results. These would be even more flawed than LSAT scores but would likely fulfill the requirement.
PE is clearly a dungeon master without peer. Do they have courtrooms in the Sims? He probably gets his ass kicked there as well.
Curious recruiting gambit by one of the finer schools. Within my experience (at 2 BigLaw firms), UM law graduates more than hold their own against those of the presumably top schools. Foolish program, and damaging to the institution's reputation.
Yes, they are playing the rankings game. Everyone does.
They will not lose their accreditation. 1)The ABA doesn't drop that bomb lightly. 2) The ABA rules call for an admissions test, not necessarily the LSAT. The words valid and reliable are pretty loaded words in the realm of psychometrics. Hell, didn't everyone take an admissions test to get into Michigan? The validity requirement may not be met by your SAT your ACT score, but who wants to get into the details.
I also want to state that I never attended Michigan and never plan to attend Michigan.
115 and 118 and others defending the school:
Please read the text kids:
"In making admissions decisions, a law school shall use the test results **in a manner that is consistent with the current guidelines regarding proper use of the test results provided by the agency that developed the test**"
SAT, ACT, No go. They're in obvious and clear violation. They have no test unless you can tell me another test besides the LSAT that's out there. Stop. Playing. The. Privilege. Game. You guys are in such denial that you have been refuse to accept the basics.
106/111
This whole state is going down the tubes under its liberal leadership. Who gives a fuck about this second-tier public school?
119, you're correct on this point. I'd admit that. The ACT and SAT are not designed for law school admissions. Regardless, Michigan could, at its discretion, create its own test to beat the system. There are many ways to skin this cat.
I'm not saying what they are doing is right. I am saying they can get away with it if they want to.
110: GULC's Early Assurance program requires candidates to take the LSAT to apply under it. In contrast, this Michigan program stipulates that applicants to it cannot take the LSAT. That's the difference and explains why people aren't bashing GULC (at least w/ respect to its Early Assurance program).
I am looking at our student face book page. So far, there is a smaller percentage of UofM grads in the first-year class than there is in my class (second-year). This is mostly making a story out of nothing.
The much bigger issue is that this 1L class is not nearly as attractive as mine was. Elie, please write a story about this.
To anyone defending this policy, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain why the fuck it would *mandate* not taking the LSAT. This is more than just a waiver of the LSAT requirement - it's an incentive not to take it. What possible reason could there be for this other to ensure that they can access, if they wish to, a steady crop of 3.8 UM undergrads without having to take on (and report) low LSAT scores at the same time?
Just ridiculous. and transparent.
Michigan should just change its policy so that anyone who meets the criteria would raise Michigan law's average LSAT score.
A cutoff of 157 should be sufficient.
The idea that Michigan wouldn't be gaming the rankings because it's a top 10 school is completely ridiculous. All law schools game the rankings. All of them.
To toss out a few examples: 1.) every law school, up to and including Yale, sends free applications and fee waivers to people who have no hope of getting in just to get lower acceptance rates to give to U.S. News; 2.) UPenn's 100% employment number that they tried to pass off a couple years ago; 3.) the increase in the number of transfers being admitted at top schools (instead of increasing the number of students they initially admit, which would dilute the U.S. News numbers); and 4.) the fudging of employment numbers in general (top schools don't need to do this as much as lower ranked schools, but it still happens).
Michigan's ranking is not set in stone. It is a top 10 school and I don't see it dropping out of the top 14 in the near future. As late as the early 80s, however, it was arguably a top 3 school. Law school rankings change at a glacial speed, but they do change and practices like this don't help.
Since people will take practice LSATs and have a general idea of what they're capable of getting, the only people who are going to sign up for this are the ones who perform at the lower end of the spectrum, whose numbers wouldn't otherwise get them into an elite school.
Looks like a desperate move by an insecure institution.
A rigged admissions process and scores of sandwich stealing students have ruined Michigan's reputation.
#36 thanks for taking out WVU's trash. Rich Rod is a douche.
The LSAT is overrated. I scored in the lower portion of our school's admittance range but after the first year I'm in the top 5% of my class...
126,
Berkeley doesn't send fee waivers, as far as I know.
Chicago sent me one, but I didn't even apply. Who wants to be in Chicago when you can get into Columbia or Berkeley?
130, Chicago is the greatest city in the world. I have family who have gone to both Berkeley and Columbia. We all like Chicago more.
126, great post. I think you nailed it.
In 2001, I was admitted to University of Michigan Law School before Thanksgiving with a 3.94 GPA from an ivy league school and a 164 on the LSAT. The school subsequently embarked on a propaganda campaign, sending me brochures every week and encouraging me to stop by the law school fair at my school to talk to the dean of admissions. It seemed to me that Michigan was already pretty desperate back then as well as generous with whom it would admit despite mediocre LSAT scores/high GPAS and vice versa.
Top U of M undergrads who went there to save their parents money but were smart enough to get into Ivies probably have 4.0s or higher and will score very highly on LSAT practice tests with little prep. (There are a surprising number of U of M ugrads at top 5 law schools). These people will not be dissuaded from taking the LSAT because their thinking will probably be along the lines, "Why the hell would I stay in Michigan when I can get into a law school in a real city that is ranked higher and has ivy clout?" By not taking the LSATs, these people would probably also be taking themselves out of the running for the U of M Law Clarence Darrow scholarships that provide full rides for all three years to top applicants. The only people who will take advantage of this program are Michiganders who love their state, suck at standardized tests, and studied their asses off to get a 3.8 at a state school.
has any school actually ever lost ABA accreditation?
It's strange that everyone seems to assume that the sole reason for Michigan doing this is to ratchet up its ranking. While I'm sure that is one motivation, this program also ensures that the Michigan students who participate in the program will only apply to Michigan because all other law schools would require them to take the LSAT.
If I were able to go to a well ranked school without having to spend a summer cramming for the LSAT or having any of the application anxiety, I might be willing to give up other options. On the other hand, if I have a 3.8 out of Michigan undergrad and I have to take the LSAT anyway, then I might as well see if I could get into a better school.
Plus, this not only helps the rankings by eliminating bad LSAT scores by students that Michigan would likely accept, it also decreases the number of students they accept out of those that do apply. This increases Michigan's perceived exclusivity (and, yes, rankings).
110, stop bringing up Georgetown. No one cares about G-town. It is well settled that it is the worst T14 to attend if you want to get a job.
Leave that shithole out of this discussion. This is about Michigan trying to avoid Prop 209, or whatever number it is.
So Georgetown gives an option but Michigan requires applicants do not take the LSAT. They cannot apply to any other law schools. They cannot attend any other law schools. Michigan admits them, they enroll - a 100% yield - very selective.
They have no LSAT score - no merit scholarships? A money saver.
They admit 10 Michigan Undergrads, can play with LSATs for 5 other admits.
They tranfer in 3 times the number they transfer out.
Why can't my law school dean be so creative, we could crack the top 50!
Michigan the Cornell of the Midewest