Nationwide Salary Cut Watch: Blank Rome Loves America
It’s almost Independence Day! And the invisible hand that guides our robust, capitalistic system continues to exert significant downward pressure on the salaries of law firm associates. The crushing economic logic opined by some Brit — who would have gotten his butt whupped at Yorktown with all the rest of them — named Adam Smith inexorably leads to today’s announcement by Blank Rome:
The legal industry continues to evolve in the midst of challenging economic conditions. As we work to continue to position Blank Rome strongly for the future, we have reviewed and decided to reset compensation for our associates, with particular emphasis on the first few classes.
Uh oh. I think the redcoats are coming:
Effective July 17, 2009, pay will reflect a starting salary for new associates being reduced from $160,000 to $145,000 in New York; from $145,000 to $130,000 in Philadelphia and Princeton; and from $150,000 to $135,000 in Washington, DC and Wilmington.
This news annoyed our Washington D.C. tipsters most. Back in 2007, we reported that Blank Rome did not raise Washington D.C. associates to $160K. But the firm is scaling D.C. down today. A D.C. tipster tells us:
Wait. The firm didn’t raise us up during the good times, but is all too eager to push us down in the bad times. I’m so outraged I will …Whatever, what I am going to do?
Come on, what would the founders say to that? You could at least dump some firm stationery into the Potomac.
After the jump, Blank Rome explains that that it was just following what the market would bear.
It’s not only first years at Blank Rome that will receive a salary cut. Veteran associates will be feeling a pinch too, but the most senior people won’t be on the front lines of this salary war:
Other classes will also be adjusted on a sliding scale of between 2% and 10%, which recognizes the relative contribution of our more senior associates.
Why is Blank Rome spreading the pain around to all of its associates? Well, it appears that the firm is doing this because the market has provided an opportunity that was too good to pass up:
This is a market adjustment. The Firm remains in strong financial health, and is on budget for this year.We are confident that our actions are in line with evolving market conditions among our competition, and, more importantly, with the expectations of our clients. We remain committed to providing our clients with the highest level of service as well as continuing to grow and improve our position in the marketplace.
Let free market capitalism ring, baby!
You can’t blame Blank Rome partners for taking advantage of an opportunity to increase profit for the firm while lowering costs for the consumer. This is, after all, America.
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Comments
First to fill in the blank
The huge number of foreign attorneys in U.S. practice has got to be having an effect on wages. It's simple supply and demand. If 20% of associate positions in big law are accounted for by foreign attorneys (such as LLMs), would restricting the issuance of work visas have an impact on wages and job security?
Hybrid tough love hits DC? You folks should be used to tough love with Obama's treatment of high income earners, which will be redefined (already breaking campaign promises) from $250,001.00 to $150,001.00. Seems to me the salary cut to $145,000.00 may save some of you miserable louts from Obama's pernicious tax agenda. There is your silver lining.
"...inexorably lead"? Try "led". Then try Schoolhouse Rock.
"We are confident that our actions are in line with evolving market conditions among our competition,"
That I agree with.
" and, more importantly, with the expectations of our clients."
Why the FUCK do your clients care if your first years get paid a few thousand dollars less, when equity partners are raking in a multiple of associate salaries? Answer: THEY DON'T!!!!!!
Why do BIGLAW partners think they can get by with this shit?
Please ban the anti-foreigner guy. He is REALLY annoying and adds no value.
_what number 6 said
_what number 6 said
6 - The advisability of insourcing foreign "lawyers" to practice in the United States is a conversation we need to be having.
6=7=8=STFU
He probably has a legitimate point. Lawyers are a self-regulating group - maybe we should be heeding his advice.
This comment is addressed to post no. 5.
To answer your last question: Because we can and associates are powerless to do anything about it, especially in this economic climate. Associates will continue to eat dung sandwiches as an alternative to starving. I am sure you are bright enough to comprehend the concept of supply and demand. Right now law schools are pumping too many graduates for the market to absorb. The whole ranking system has been essentially redefined. Do you really think peer firms will continue to massively recruit at bottom-dwelling schools such as Georgetown, Cornell, Duke, et als.? We are in the position to cherry pick associates from wherever. Translation: We don't care about "we will never forget." You are already forgotten.
this is a shit firm
9/10--Maybe you missed the election results last Nov. You lost, we won. Moderator, please remove 9/10 and similar remarks as being racist and not helpful.
It looks like Blank Rome DC just got a good rectal rogering.
PE is as gay as the foreigner guy
PE, should peer firms still recruit from the top 10% of these "bottom-dwelling school" or just ditch them altogether?
PE:
You support outsourcing. What do you think of importing foreign "lawyers" to practice inside the United States?
@2 - Nonsense.
First, the number of LLMs that actually get jobs in the US is minimal (maybe 3% of any given class during good times?). It is not enough to push salaries down, if you want to call for a "cheap labor" argument.
Second, most of them only stay for a year only on "visiting attorney" or "foreign associate" programs offered by certain firms. The firms that offer those programs (how many, really? around 20-25% of AmLaw 100?) are firms that cannot be considered for purposes of determining a market trend because of their global reach; therefore a local or regional firm is not likely to hire one of these foreign students.
Finally, most of these LLMs are hired because of their language skills and, in many cases, send to a foreign office after a while. So, unless you are fluent in a language other than English and you feel that some foreign person has taken your job while having the same skill-set, your point is moot.
In my humble opinion, I think you should just focus in studying hard, getting good grades and do all the network you can during your 3 years of law school. After all, all us LLMs, are giving you 2 years of a head start and cannot speak or write in English as well as you do.
blank rome failed to mention this information to any of its incoming associates..... not cool at all.
More great news. It's about time more firms stuck it too the associates. Time for fewer offers, fewer associates, fewer partners, and far more contract lawyers from India.
6 and 13 make an important point. When people express opinions other than our own we should ban them from the discussion.
Biglaw associates look around you. Do foreign "attorneys" really only number one associate in 35? That's one of several misleading statements made by commenter 18.
This comment is addressed to post no. 17.
My firm has already instituted such policy. I find that most foreign attorneys are more disciplined than American attorneys. I don't mean this as a general indictment of American attorneys. For the most part, the attorneys of my generation and up until the late 1980s were of a different tree than today's generation of lawyers. When I went to law school, we took nothing for granted. We were not wined and dined as summer associates. Sure there were parties and outings but nothing as excessive as a few years ago. This led to the creation of a false arrogance amongst newly minted attorneys. Most believed they were worth something because they graduated from a top school, yet knew nothing about the actual practice of law. Foreigners on the other hand are hard working and appreciative of this country and the opportunities given to them. They don't compare with their classmates about how big their office is or how many perks they get from their employer. Foreigners don't take their job for granted. Overall, foreign attorneys are a better buy. That being said, I would prefer to deal with foreign attorneys abroad. I have stated my reasons before (i.e., outside the jurisdiction of wrongful termination, discrimination lawsuits, family leave act, american with disabilities act, ERISA, low overhead, no pension or medical benefits, etc.).
"We are confident that our actions are in line with evolving market conditions among our competition, and, more importantly, with the expectations of our clients."
So by how much is Blank Rome lowering its fees?
It seems incredibly unprofessional of them to have let their incoming class of associates find out about this pay cut from ATL. How hard would it have been for firm management to send people an e-mail?
They also still have their incoming associates hanging on when they are starting. Seems ridiculous that Blank Rome meets to lower their salaries, but can't pick a date for them to start.
25/26,
I found out I was laid off from ATL. Be thankful for what you have.
Exposed, exhausted, and nye unto death—thus was I found in the wilderness by Kashmir. She lifted my head, cradled me to her breast, and nursed me like a suckling calf.
I owe that woman my life.
Management brought all soon to be first years into lunch and said that they would not discuss potential start dates until August - but they could convene a meeting to hash out the salary.
It's unfortunate that they weren't able to compose an email to those affected. They must be REALLY BUSY there since they don't have time to have important meetings or extend common courtesy.
It's a group of inconsiderate jerks. I wish I went elsewhere. If you are a 1L or 2L - go to a firm with more character and integrity.
Skank Fome?
Drugged, robbed, and beaten; Elie found me under a New York City overpass. He rifled through my wallet, frisked me for loose cash, and stole my wristwatch.
That bastard.
As a former biglaw associate who went in-house -- aka the "client" these firms continue to cite as a motivating factor for screwing over associates -- let me say without hesitation that I don't care what firms pay associates. I care about how much I pay firms, results, work product and client service. I could care less if Firm A paid their first years $160K, $140k, or $800k for that matter.
Yes, we make comments about salaries when we look at some of the rates, but those comments are directed at partner salaries as much, if not more than associate salaries. We also comment about the absurd rent most firms pay, but we haven't seen firms move to more humble abodes.
Although this is of little consolation to associates taking these hits, I can tell you that any firm citing "client pressure" as a factor in their collective decision to cut salary will hear about it from me. Again, I don't care what they pay people but I DO care about candor and integrity.
For the record we wouldn't utilize Blank Rome under any pay scale because they fail to produce quality or value.
32 for the win!
anal then dump
PE just gave "American" attorneys a sound thumping.
Former Thelen and current Orrick partner the Glass Cock here, wondering why Elie wrote this: "You can't blame Blank Rome partners for taking advantage of an opportunity to increase profit for the firm while lowering costs for the consumer. This is, after all, America."
The Glass Cock didn't see anything about fees being reduced. Did something get left out of the story?
Did the incoming associates really not get this memo?!?!
Oh man, and the HOTSHOT associates there used to say they work at BANKROME. Not any more.
that's how we roll in ghettodelphia
that's how we roll in ghettodelphia
Does anyone remember when this dogshit firm was called Blank Rome McCauley Culkin? I do. Piece of crap firm that tries to emulate a REAL philly firm like ECKERT.
it's called ghettonomics
Thats for letting us know. I will be sleeping much better after I respond to their acceptance offer with a rejection letter.
First WolfBlock dissolves, then Sargent gets canned from Nova' now Blank Rome is cutting salaries, what's next? It's like armageddon!
Quit your whinning. It takes years for someone to be able to practice law - why BigLaw finds it necessary to pay unskilled associates $100k+ for doing work that doesn't add any value is beyond me. You are getting paid over $100k to do little more than document reviews and you are complaining? STFU.
i dont think its the money for these associates, but more the fact that they had to hear about it on ATL and still dont have a start date. this firm clearly messed up in not telling the people that this affects before it was broadcast to the legal world.
Maybe they didn't bother to give the new associates the memo because it's never going to affect them, a.k.a. don't hold your breath for that start date...
Blank Rome is a trend setter. Philly firms will follow in due course over the summer. Pay cuts to this level will happen at NYC biglaw in the fall.
Elie remember when your title say God Damn America after Cravath lowballed the bonus. Some people were offended but I thought it was funny.
Is DLA still the only Vault 50 firm to first freeze and then cut salaries? What a market leader...
Adam Smith was a Scotsman. Even a chimp knows that.
This is a very Q4 2008/Q1 2009 thing to do. Definitely not something you'd expect to see during the nascent stages of an economic boom.
Sidley's next - from a good source, associate layoffs and salary cuts are looming with the "spring" reviews that mysteriously have been postponed.
What a trash, amateur firm. All this recession is doing is washing the veneer of eliteness away from shit firms like Blank Rome. So sorry you can't play with the big boys, but don't worry-- mediocre law grads will still work for you. Losers.
@53, I think you might be on to something. Sidley Chicago just canceled OCI at our T14 school.
#54 - What firms would you describe as "the big boys?"
They still make more than half of 2008 Latham first years.
The Big Boys = Morgan Lewis and Bockius, Dechert Price and Roads, and Eckert Semen.
Margolis Edelstein and Lavin Coleman used to be up there, but they're on the way down.
Does anyone know if Sidley Chicago has done layoffs this year?
13, if you chose the Dems in November then you chose the anti-free trade party. The protectionists are running the country now, and they have always run the ABA.
Latham 1st year associate salary chart:
160 until february, and then $400 a week
56- these are the big boys: Wachtell, S&C, Davis, Skadden. Cravath used to be a big boy until the partners ruined the firm with stupid management and had to defer all their incoming associates.
The point of lowering costs is usually to increase profit. If savings in salary and materials were ever really passed on to the consumer, my phone would cost 12 cents, my jeans would cost $3, and my shoes would be worth one and a half lattes.
I highly doubt the clients will see much of this supposed savings, and it drives me up a wall when people pretend that associate salaries have anything to do with the absurd legal billing. Associates make MONEY for the firm. One third year associate used to add to the firm something like $350,000 a year, after salary.
Now the profits are down, so salaries have to go down too. But let's not pretend this will have any significant effect on what consumers pay. It has never worked like that in the history of outsourcing.
Costs are what you control to increase profits. Prices are what the market will bear. In most industries, the two are barely connected.
The point of lowering costs is usually to increase profit. If savings in salary and materials were ever really passed on to the consumer, my phone would cost 12 cents, my jeans would cost $3, and my shoes would be worth one and a half lattes.
I highly doubt the clients will see much of this supposed savings, and it drives me up a wall when people pretend that associate salaries have anything to do with the absurd legal billing. Associates make MONEY for the firm. One third year associate used to add to the firm something like $350,000 a year, after salary.
Now the profits are down, so salaries have to go down too. But let's not pretend this will have any significant effect on what consumers pay. It has never worked like that in the history of outsourcing.
Costs are what you control to increase profits. Prices are what the market will bear. In most industries, the two are barely connected.
Wow. Adam Smith the Brit. That's a Trivial Pursuit-level fail. Does Elie ever look anything up, ever?
deport the LLMs back to their countries
Scotland is part of Britain. Britain is England, Scotland and Wales.
Oh man, when I get outta this thing I'm really going to let her have it. Ten years and this is what I get. I wish I could go back in time, then I'd fix everything. Gone, gone gone would be my misspent decade. I'd be a painter, no a writer. Yes m'am. Let's fire this thing up and notch and see what she can do.
32- i am also a biglaw associate that went inhouse, albeit involuntarily. i was one of the first wave that got hit, so i have been here for awhile (I was laid off when the main partners securitization practice went belly up about 2 years ago).
I second what he says. what is interesting is that i now work for one of my former firms clients, and guess who gets to make decisions on where mid level and low level work goes? yep. guess what, i am keeping it with my old firm. want to know why? they treated us well. they didnt make it look like our fault. when we were forced out, the partners that were not marketable, i.e. had no book of business and were merely grinders, were quietly shown the door. it was brutal, but quiet. we were given 4 months to find new positions. the firm went all out to help us out.
as i read about my old firms layoffs, most recently a couple of months ago, I still feel that they are doing it on the up and up. they are honest, they dont try to blame associates. they have never commenced irregular performance reviews, and always give great recommendations if someone calls asking about a person (a good friend of mine was recently let go, and that was his experience).
like 32, i also dont care what first years make. i only care about the quality of the product and the bottom line. but, i also watch and listen to what the firms are doing that i send work to. if the firms treat their associates poorly, i can almost guarantee that the work product will be shoddy and that there will be personality conflict issues. it happens all the time. bad morale is a poison that affects everything.
so, if any partner is reading this, know this. inhouse is watching what you are doing and how you are treating your employees. a lot of us ended up inhouse involuntarily. i will never leave, now that i know how great it is. to the partners that are merely grinders, i.e. no one in the legal community know who they are and they one do work for other partners, we know who you are. the associates take note when you start blasting them for not having enough hours, knowing full well that you are hording them for yourself. but, what is truly aweful is that your desire for short term gain is a major long term loss. while you are billing your hours, you are missing out on major opportunities to build your network. when the legal work comes back, and it will eventually, you will be left out. those associates that took the time to market themselves will be leaving with firm clients and with new clients.
to all my biglaw, midlaw, and small law brethren, inhouse is not your enemy. you are your own enemy. in the last month, i have had one call, ONE CALL from someone that wants to meet me. yeah, i may not send her work for a year, but if she continues to build a professional relationship with my company, when the time is right, she may get a call. what I do know is that when work is ready to go out, i will never send it to someone i dont know. so, while your hours are down, get out there. meet people. give us a call. take us out to lunch. take another law firm colleague out to lunch. now is the time. when i was let go, i had several choices of where to go, not because my legal field was hot (which obviously it wasnt), but because i had built up my network.
the time to market yourself and build your network is when you dont need to market yourself and build your network.
sorry for the long post.
62 - Wake up. Blank Rome can do everything a Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Davis or Wachtell Lipton can do. Do you really think those firms are special? Its not rocket science or saving a life in the E.R. What makes a contract so special or different that only those 5 firms could do it? Seriously.
62 - Wake up. Blank Rome can do everything a Cravath, Skadden, S&C, Davis or Wachtell Lipton can do. Do you really think those firms are special? Its not rocket science or saving a life in the E.R. What makes a contract so special or different that only those 5 firms could do it? Seriously.
Wachtell to rule them all. NYC really only needs one law firm. Think about it.
CLS2L
69- long but good post. the only problem is that for those of us still on biglaw survivor island, the hours have gotten even more brutal. we have no time to network. we freak out if we don't pull a minimum of 6 12/hr days a week. to make it even worse, with all the layoffs, we have only slightly less work than before, meaning that my workload has increased 20%. The partners love it because they know that if they email us at 9pm, it will be on their desk at 9am the next day, family life and networking be damned
After the jump, Blank Rome explains that that it was just following what the market would bear. ????
WTF: Mystal you jackass.
Lat, get rid of him!!!
PE,
How high has your firm managed to push the representation of non-U.S. citizen associates?
PE works at Seyfarth Shaw. As a Concordance specialist.
PE works at Seyfarth Shaw. As a Concordance specialist.
Marshall Denehy bills associates out at $75 an hour and they haven't cut associate salaries. Margolis Edelstein bills out associates for even less ($20/hour I heard) and they haven't cut associate salaries either (which start at 35000/ year).
Sidley Chicago has a hundred incoming attorneys- who have not been postponed/deferred. I'd be surprised if they fired ppl (they let go 30ish ppl in March) and cut salaries, while taking on so many in November.
oh what the fuck. another day another salary cut. Didn't we just finish a day yesterday? another one already?
www.lawshucks.com/laidoffdiary
Thanks 79
70/71,
Blank Rome is a good firm (and I'm sure there are plenty of really good and smart attorneys who work there), but comparing them to Wachtell, Cravath and Davis Polk is just plain stupid.
If Wells Fargo is trying to buy Wachovia out from under Citibank in a last minute coup, who are they going to call? A firm that does $20 billion dollar deals all the time, or are they going to go with the third best corporate firm in Philadelphia?
67 - don't forget Ireland.
82 - you are shitting us. some of the most complex and sophisticated deals are midcap company mergers. you want to get complex, try mixing family interests with company interest, and try to figure out how to get the two to come together without being taxed to death while still making it legal. the dollar amount is not in the mega billions, but the legal issues are extremely complex. get your head out of your ass. you are merely perpetuating the myth, hiding behind a dollar amount instead of getting to the root, which is the complexity of the deal itself. btw, the BoA buyout of ML was done in a weekend. it was a relatively simple deal. yeah, it was a lot of money, but straight up buyouts are almost form document deals.
that being said, i wouldnt use blankrome not because they are not capable, but because they are run by ass clowns that no one respects in the city.
It sounds like Sonnenschein still takes the cake in screwing its associates. Good work Elliott! You're a real visionary.
83-only Northern Ireland.
55, Sidley Chicago also canceled at my T20 school. They're in the tanker.
86: Isn't Northern Ireland a part of the United Kingdom but not Britain?
Horse hockey. BRCM is just following the herd, as always. Cutting associate salaries AFTER other firms have already forged the path. Meanwhile, the associates have no real choice but to stay and accept it in this post-apocolyptic job market.
For all those of you grappling with the terminology of the British Isles, I present to you the highest authority in all the land on all subjects:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles
Britain= england and wales
Great Britain = england, wales and scotland
United Kingdom = Great Britain and Northern Ireland
88 - Northern Ireland is a part of United Kindom. Ireland (Eire) is a dependent territory of the UK.
So as far as I can tell, Ballard, Blank Rome, Schnader, Reed Smith, and Drinker Biddle are big Philly firms that have cut salaries. Haven't anything on Morgan, Dechert, Pepper, Duane Morris. Any others?
why are we not mentioning which T14 and T20 schools Sidley is not interviewing at? why would that be a secret? and wouldn't more people know about it?
i call BS. esp bec everyone knows Sidley is gonna have a tiny summer class next yr (in all offices except DC) but will pretend to interview normally to keep up appearances.
Blank Rome is run by a bunch of clowns. They are all a bunch of liars, scammers and cheats. They fancy themselves as sophisticated, politically-connected intelligent lawyers, but they are all classless buffoons. It is surprising to me that they can find themselves out of a bag let alone figure out how to get people to work for them.
What were the circumstances of the Sidley Chicago departures in March?
Sidley did a round of layoffs in March- i think 80 attorneys nationwide? Half were in the NY office, a bunch more from the chi office, and a few from the remainder.
93- Morgan cut
Ballard has cut salaries and associates, at least two dozen. Rumors of more stealth layoffs abound.
Cue Michael Ray Richardson...
Comment removed by moderator.
The ship be sinking...
Didn't Morgan just freeze? I don't think they cut starting salaries.
93, Drinker has (so far) cut only first-year salaries, and then for only six months. No one else has received a cut.
clarification: DBR has cut only incoming first years' salaries (class of '09). current first years are still at $145k.
-103
@94, I'm the original "T14" guy who said Sidley Chicago isn't showing up. That's very true. (I'm at GULC). However, the other Sidley offices are still showing. K&L Gates also cancelled OCI at our school.
Blank Rome may be the worst AMLaw 100 firm in the country. Their NY office is a joke and profits are less than 600k. Why even talk about them?
anybody know where blankrome got the sweet pens they gave out at OCI/Career Fairs last year? There are no manufucturer's trademarks on it.
The partner who interviewed me was personable as stale bread. She seemed to not know how to interview, but the pen was awesome. I use it now as an SA.
Unlike most pens, it's not tiny in my man-hands. Good weight and comfy grip that doesn't look like sports equipment.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks!
Blank Rome may be the worst AMLaw 100 firm in the country. Their NY office is a joke and profits are less than 600k. Why even talk about them?
Sidley Chicago pulled out of Georgetown? thats interesting. do they usually heavily recruit there?
how many Georgetown students usually wind up in the sidley chicago office?
80,
Maybe you can confirm -- I've heard a rumor that Law Shucks has teamed up with Above the Law? Is that true? Thanks for any help
Comment removed by moderator.
109 - Can't really say for sure. Georgetown students tend to flock to DC and NYC the most. But, we still have quite a few firms at OCI (and I presume quite a few students who accept offers there) from all over the place.
not sidley affiliated, just guessing, but dont many firms allow attorneys from other offices to interview at OCI?
would be smart of sidley to have NY or DC partners do OCI at Gtown, then give out a few callbacks and have the chicago office take care of the rest back in chicago.
when i was at penn, more than a few firms did this. i interviewed with Jones Day NY for their cali office.
anybody know where blankrome got the sweet pens they gave out at OCI/Career Fairs last year? There are no manufucturer's trademarks on it.
The partner who interviewed me was personable as stale bread. She seemed to not know how to interview, but the pen was awesome. I use it now as an SA.
Unlike most pens, it's not tiny in my man-hands. Good weight and comfy grip that doesn't look like sports equipment.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks!
Did ATL report big March Sidley layoffs?
113 - That just depends on how each firm wants to do it. Some firms say that you can only interview with the office for which you wish to receive an offer and you are strictly not being considered for other offices. Other firms say that it doesn't matter which office you interview for, just express during the interview that you have a desire for another office as well.
Blank NY was trying to make a name for itself in the early 2000s from a small group (3-6) of partners. Its always a shit Philly firm, below Morgan Lewis & Bockius and Dechert Price. Even firms like White and Williams or Montgomery McCraken are better.
Blank Rome sucks. Its problem is, bluntly, is that it simply hires too much Rutgers and Villanova losers.
Signed,
Rod Laver
Blank Rome did to Girard DiCarlo what WolfBlock did to Alan Davis. My sources tell me that they are desperately looking to merge or pull a WolfBlock. Seriously though, how can you turn down a former Managing partner and CEO? Couldn't they offer him a staff position at the very least? That speaks volumes of their character!
Blank Rome should just change their name to Law Offices of Lovell Woodsworth.
Elie should make Blank Rome partner John "Jack" Pribish a belated lawyer of the day. In April an appellate court upheld liability against Pribish for converting $$$$ from the accounts receivable of his former firm. No word yet whether or not Pribish will be facing disciplinary measures in either NJ or NY, where he's admitted.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/NonEquity-Partner-Has-law-14888231.html?.v=1
118-
Let's see what DiCarlo does for his new firm and circle back in 6 months.