To the Lifeboats! Penn and UVA Allow Unlimited Clerkship Applications
As goes Harvard Law School, so goes the rest of the law school world. Last month, HLS pointed its students towards an escape from Biglaw purgatory: clerkships.
Now Penn Law is doing the same, revising its clerkship policy to allow students to blanket the country — and cyberspace — with clerkship applications. From Law Clerk Addict:
JUDGE LIMIT POLICYIn light of the current market conditions and the expectation that the competition for clerkships this year will be greater than in the past, CPP and the Faculty Clerkship Committee decided to reconsider the 100 judge limit and have agreed to the following new limit: Applicants will be limited to 75 paper applications. There is no limit on the number of OSCAR judges you may apply to.
At least there’s still a limit on paper applications. Trees everywhere are breathing sighs of relief.
(For those of you who clerked in the Mesozoic Era, as we did, OSCAR has nothing to do with the Academy Awards; rather, it’s the Online System for Clerkship Application and Review.)
Update: UVA is following suit. Full message after the jump.
More after the jump.
Nevertheless, Penn doesn’t want its students applying indiscriminately:
The committee expects that you will keep the number of your applications at a reasonable level, that you will do appropriate research before adding a judge to your list, and that you will not apply to a judge for whom you would not be willing to clerk (based on what you can discern from the paper record).
Does the “paper record” include deliciously gossipy novels about the clerkship experience?
Then again, given the grim job market, many a Penn grad would probably kill for the opportunity to remain in Philly and clerk for Judge Dolores Sloviter. It may not be a fun experience, but hey, it’s a job (assuming she doesn’t fire you before the year is up).
Encouraging students to investigate the possibility of clerking makes sense, but it’s hardly a panacea. In many cases, it’s much harder to land a clerkship than a random Biglaw gig. This is especially true if you’re aiming for a so-called feeder judge; one of the more popular or prestigious federal circuit courts, like the D.C. or Second or Ninth Circuits; or a federal district court in a major city, like the Southern District of New York, the Northern District of Illinois (Chicago), or the Northern or Central Districts of California (San Francisco and Los Angeles).
Good luck, clerkship applicants. In this hyper-competitive year, with experienced lawyers as well as law students seeking Article III asylum, you’ll need it.
Update: UVA Law jumps on the bandwagon:
ANNOUNCEMENTS
3Ls: New Application Limits
Date Posted: Wednesday, July 15, 2009
Submitted By: Judicial Clerkships/Judicial Clerkships
In light of what promises to be a competitive clerkship season, the Office of Judicial Clerkships has decided to lift the limit on the number of OSCAR applications that clerkship candidates may make. Students are still limited to 75 paper (CARS) applications.
In order to give students enough time to factor in this change when making application decisions, the deadline for the completion of judge lists has been pushed back to Sunday, July 19, at midnight.
Please be advised that although no strict limit on the number of OSCAR judges will be enforced, common sense and courtesy to the faculty and faculty assistants should guide your decision as to how many applications to make. Students applying to an excessive number of judges will be contacted and, in some cases, asked to limit their lists.
If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact Ruth Payne, Director of Judicial Clerkships, at [xxxx].
Penn To Allow Unlimited Clerkship Applications [Law Clerk Addict]
Earlier: Cravath Announcement Causes Immediate Reaction At Harvard Law School
(88) Comments
Comments
First (and you know this, man)
Go Nittany Lions
First
Legalize it, doods.
Joe P is not going to be happy that so many UPennState students are sending out clerkship applications instead of rooting for the team.
Res Ipsa Porkitur
latham sucks
Is Joe Pa younger than any SCOTUS justices?
Doom Doom Doom. No hay clerkship. No hay job . . . No hay.
THOUSANDS of attorney applicants, who are not bound by the date restrictions imposed upon 3Ls, have already flooded (and continue to flood) judges' chambers with applications. It's going to be ugly.
KLAC is going up! buy buy buy
A buddy of mine who clerks at the S.D.NY told me that a judge there has received well over 1000 applications for one open position. Insane.
Do Penn grads even apply for clerkships? Aren't they more interested in trooping off to big firms and collected their six-figure salaries?
Elie clerked?
I thought Irvine already had a law school? Am I in bizarro world?
http://www.newuniversity.org/main/article?slug=law_school_sets_bar194
Why, oh why, am I so firsty?
I'm a 1L looking to transfer and I got in to Penn State Law (both Philly and State College) campuses. I know State College is a secondary market (as opposed to a primary market like Philly), but the tuition is way cheaper. I'm thinking about taking the spot at State College. Am I crazy?
It's simple! Create your own alternative legal venue! It's that simple! Akin to arbitration or mediation, unemployed attorneys should create a less expensive alternative that is binding upon consent of the parties! I propose we name this new alternative forum "Epididymus" and provide perks that are otherwise unavailable in traditional forums like foot massages in between sessions, manicures during cross examination, and perhaps colon cancer screening during closing statements. Who's with me?
This is an abortion of justice.
Is there a list of judges that are looking for clerks but don't accept applications via OSCAR?
did u guys hear there is going to be a megyn kelly sex tape?
I go to SMU to avoid this exact problem.
18, perhaps, but it will never defeat us.
wait, landing a clerkship with a feeder judge is more difficult than getting a random biglaw gig?
i was not aware.
What's a "feeder judge"?
Look at me!
6 - you're so selfish, Latham was forced to let some people go by the unprecedented economic conditions, and the people it did let go were given market leading post employment packages
I'm on a boat!
Any 3L who hasn't applied for a clerkship yet will be SOL. Waiting for September is for suckers.
--COA-bound '10
Accredited? Yeah, didn't think so.
Boom.
Duke3L
Comment removed by moderator.
http://jalopnik.com/5311204/hoveround+bound-obese-woman-takes-trip-to-bk-drive+thru/gallery//gallery/#viewcomments
Judge Halverson Cometh
latham laid a bunch of people off, except for one person who didnt pass the bar. guess why they didn't fire him? because he was condoleeza rice's lover.
Ok UVA, what are we waiting for?
32 = roxana
Perhaps one of you Spanish speaking attorneys can assist me. One of my contacts in Mexico recently told me that Obama exclaimed the following in a speech:
"Esperansa e Cambio, Si podemos Cabrones!" Can someone translate this for me?
Get over it 6/32. Latham NY lost two of its biggest clients in Lehman and Bear Sterns, so, in addition to the bad economic times, it had to let a number of NY associates go. However, I doubt you would have lasted long at any decent firm with your lame-ass-trolling mentality. Go look for a job.
WAIT!! Why would U Penn do this? Is something going on in the legal profession?
DOJ Secure
Employed 5th year associate here. The best position to be in at a law firm is 3-6 year associate. The younger
ones and older non partner track ones are getting the squeeze. Thank God I graduated in 02'. We're like the creamy Oreo center, or better yet, the middle
child that is parents don't pay much attention to. You can all envy me fir being born in 77' but dot hate me.
everyone was fired from latham except for men with large phalli and women with perfectly manicured landing strips
-condoleeza rice
UVA has adopted the same policy. Got the email at 2:00.
UCLA!!!!!!!
38 - I don't envy your old balls and upcoming inevitable hip replacement.
Nice job ATL,
Lawclerkaddict beat you to this by about 5 hours. Plus, their post doesnt have all the fear mongering.
Latham is a TTT
To all desperate rising 3Ls---
As most OSCAR judges have already been flooded with grad applications, think hard about where you're applying. If you're limited in the number of paper apps you can put out, don't waste them on judges that are long-shots. Be realistic and, instead, try using them, for example, on solid state supreme court slots, where nearly all courts only take paper applications. Way less competition, and a solid boost into getting a federal clerkship the following year (when you'll be able to apply with grads, before Labor Day).
Also, 3Ls who apply before the deadline = the woman who got clouted into Illinois's law school with a 151. That is, lame cheaters who are afraid of real competition.
43 - Uh, since ATL links to Law Clerk Addict - probably increasing LCA's traffic dramatically - I think they are aware of that.
I clerked for a Fed Judge about 40 years ago, back when there were very few Fed Judges around, plus a lot fewer attorneys to boot. We had to stay for two years. The first year was great. The second year was a total bore. Back then, law firms didn't bump starting pay for former clerks, but the clerk job paid as much as first years made in the large firms. Times have changed. I'm glad I'm retired now.
#45,
excuse me, I just choked I laughed so hard. cheaters? for applying early? don't be a tool.
Why does UCLA hate its students?
13 - This post is by Lat (who clerked on the Ninth Circuit).
15- It's one thing when people who think they are "First!" actually end up 2nd or 3rd, but 15th? That truly is a FAIL!
32
Condi is gay you idiot. Are you suggesting that the Latham NY BFPS is secretly a woman?
Lat - was that book any good? Nonlawyers say yes, lawyers say meh.
50 = Lat
54 - No, Lat would have noted that O'Scannlain is also a feeder judge.
50 = Roxana
The ship be sinking...
36, EVERY firm in NY lost Lehman and Bear. They've taken a hit but they still haven't slaughtered first years like Latham.
-all the V20 but LaTTTham secure
The clerkship market this year is awful. I'm currently a federal clerk looking to move up, with biglaw experience, publications, journals, the whole gamut. It's tough out there.
Another tip for you clerkship seekers: if the judge isn't on OSCAR, verify that the judge is hiring before you mail in your application and have your professors mail their recommendations. As much as I enjoy reading glowing recommendations for an opening that doesn't exist, your professors would probably appreciate it if you culled your list a bit.
The rims be spinning ...
Chris Rock
45 and 59 - Thank you for the advice.
I love it! But hey why are you maligning the wonderful Joe Paterno. You don't say Paterno and Penn in the same breath. All of you folks who are confusing Penn State University ( called Penn State i.e. Nittany Lions and Coach Paterno) and Penn ( called Penn --the expensive one with the big endowment, and the famous business school). You are makiing Penn, the Philadelphia institution cry. They have spent hundreds of millions on branding and buildings just so that you won't do that. Besides, in this economy in the PA/NJ region, one is better off having Penn State, Villanova or Temple U on that resume.
Thanks 62.
COUNSEL EMERITUS,
It means "you've been de-equitized."
Now, go find the carbon paper.
- The Partnership / (La Asociación)
62 - it's the same school, duh! Penn is the Philly campus of the Penn State University System. They have been pretty successful with the branding, though, as the Philly law school and the Warden school are ranked separate from the other Penn State schools in the USNWR.
Is it true that clerks for judges get to pound the judge in the ass at least once a week?
Haven't plenty of good schools financed unlimited clerkship applications for years? This isn't news.
WHO NEEDS CLERKSHIPS? SUCKERS, THAT'S WHO
MORGAN LEWIS SECURE
#66 - Yes, oh god, 1000 times, YESSSS!
There is absolutely NO HOPE for those of us at schools like Vandy, WashU, Emory, etc.
How the fuck are we going to compete with every person in the T14 who wants to do a clerkship suddenly?
@17 - It's been done. See, e.g. EDTx for lame patents. But it's dying on its own and congress is ready to finish it off.
@35 - As a fluent Spanish speaker, I would be happy to translate (not quite word for word, more the gist of it), "you are a bastard." It's possible that you are not personally a bastard in that your mom and dad may actually know each other, but I doubt it.
Oddly, kids at lower ranked schools will do fine (at least at the district level) if their grades are excellent. Most judges would rather take the Top 10% from T20-30 than the middle third from T10.
this policy has already been in place at vandy for a while.
@65 Dear Duh.
I don't think 62 was talking about occassional courses offered at a satellite campus. I think he or she was talking about the Law Schools. There is an institutional, thus corporate difference between University of Pennsylvania (Ivy League and Private) in Philadelphia with its WHARTON School of Business and Pennsylvania State University (Public) with its Dickenson School of Law which is located in both University Park-State College PA and Carlisle, PA. Penn State University actually has 27 different campuses, none of which are located inside of the City of Philadelphia. Research before you speak/write. While I disagree with a portion of what 62 said, I guess I spent too many hours in Biddle Law Library at one of these institutions to let your smirk stand unchallenged. Go look for yourself. Penn law is: http://www.law.upenn.edu Penn State Law is:
http://www.dsl.psu.edu/
@70 at Wash U in St. Louis? H-- yeah you're competitive. Think regionally. Think functionally. Think Washington,DC think Chicago. Think Baltimore.
74, you a serious drooling retard. I went to Penn. It is most certainly a public school, affiliated with PSU.
GO NITTANY LIONS!
This would never happen at Widener.
I'm a tier 4 (upcoming) 3L and I have accepted a circuit clerkship (I had to turn down 3 others). This just goes to show that it doesn't matter where you go to school. YOU GUYS ARE SNOBS!!!!
Penn State's Warden School of Business is over-rated- the economics it teaches has no practical application in 2009. I encourage PA residents to avoid the lure of Philadelphia, forego the in-state tuition discount, and say no to Penn and go to a real school
UPenn in Philly is a private school and in no way related to Penn State. Simple as that.
PS. It's also Wharton, not Warden, School of Business and again, it is private, so there's no in-state tuition.
Damn it. We already get enough applications from idiots with no chance who think a judge will take a chance on them. Honestly, unless you are top 5 at a top 10, don't apply if you lack any life experience outside of law school.
W&L should reimburse students for their clerkship applications. It would be a good investment by the school. If it wanted to take baby steps into this whole idea of reimbursement, the school might start by footing the bill for people who are in the top [insert arbitrary cutoff]. It would be worth cutting one of its less needed expenditures (e.g., law review banquet) to institute this reimbursement policy.
And yes, to preempt anyone who says otherwise: several W&L grads got federal (a few appellate and mostly district) clerkships this year.
I can't find anything on-line about this Warden School but I can't imagine it's as bad as you guys say it is- does anyone have a link to the school?
Joe Paterno vs. Morgan Lewis- Who wins?
Joe Paterno vs. a hurricane- Who wins?
What if the hurricane is also named Paterno?
78--- An exception doesn't make the rule.
Look at lawclerkaddict.com for the stats. It is sersiously difficult to get a circuit clerkship coming from a T3 or T4 school. Generally, only local circuit judges who have some connection with your school will be options, and you will have to effin' rock out with your cock out to be considered. You are seriously lucky, and I'd be surprised if there wasn't some backdoor connection that got you your spot.
E.g., I know several brillant, but unconnected T3 grads who were district court clerks in a competitive district and have papered the entire country with circuit applications. The only nibble was an interview with the guy in North Dakota.
I know a lot of you may not agree with this, but I'm going to say it anyway. For those of you rising 3L's and recent unemployed graduates, DO NOT discount the value of a state clerkship in the jurisdiction that you hope to practice in. I'm a COA state clerk in a major jurisdiction, the law clerk I replaced a few months ago had a number of offers from mid-law and high end boutique firms (i.e., firms that pay really good money and aren't laying off associates because they over bill clients to pay bloated first-year associate salaries).
The fact that my previous clerk had so many offers during this recesssion simply amazed me. Even more shocking is that these firms were rejecting applicants from laid-off-big-firm associates. I know this because I have a lot of friends who trying to move into mid law from big law, but are being rejected left and right.
So, my point is simple. Don't make the mistake the I originally made coming out of law school by thinking state clerkships are no good because they are not as "prestigious." I can guarantee you that state clerkships will be a great experience and allow you to meet a lot of attorneys.
Just a thought. Now go ahead and tell me how much of an idiot I am.
oh i am sure that increasing the number of applications is going to increase the number of these idiots actually getting clerkships. i mean, that only makes sense... clerkships in desirable courts r so plentiful as it is... they could let these kids send out a thousand clerkship applications, it would do nothing. U GUYS R THE LOST GENERATION - U WILL GET NO LEGAL JOBS - U R ALL F*CKED
- partner at VT20