Ropes & Gray: Defers Current Summers to 2011
If the class of 2009 is like the main cast on Lost, then the class of 2010 is starting to look like the Tailies. Ropes & Gray has decided to defer its current summer class until “Sometime, 2011.”
Here is the firm-wide memo that all Ropes & Gray associates received last week:
As we recently communicated to summer associates, we will be making offers to them according to the usual standards and in the same numbers as in the past. We have not set a definite start date for them, but it will be no earlier than January 2011. We are encouraging current summer associates to consider pursuing a clerkship or NAP fellowship.
Just like Cravath Skadden, Ropes is promising that its summer offer rate will be commensurate with past years. However, just like Cravath Skadden, Ropes makes no mention of any kind of incoming first-year deferral stipend that it intends to offer to the class of 2010.
UPDATE: We now know what kind of stipend Ropes will be giving to the class of 2010. See here.
In March, Ropes announced its New Alternatives plan, which deferred the class of 2009 to January 2010. Now the firm is encouraging its current summers (class of 2010) to seek a public interest fellowship between law school graduation and the new start date at the firm.
At least current Ropes summer associates should come out of this summer with offers in hand. There are a lot of Biglaw summers that would sign up for that, regardless of when they can actually start after graduation.
Read the full Ropes & Gray memo, after the jump.
ROPES & GRAY — MEMORANDUM — SUMMER ASSOCIATES
Our summer associates have recently passed the midpoint of their time with us, and their feedback suggests that they have been finding the summer experience very productive. I wanted to take a moment to share some thoughts on the crucial role that you, our associates, have played in creating a positive experience for our summers.
You are vital to the firm’s ability to recruit and retain emerging talent; and you are vital to their forging appropriate connections with the firm. You model the world-class service orientation and results-driven work that our clients value. Perhaps most importantly, you serve as mentors and colleagues to our summer associates in ways that help us engage these talented young professionals more deeply, and develop their legal and interpersonal skills and drive. I want to thank all of you for the part you play in the overall success of the summer program.
As we recently communicated to summer associates, we will be making offers to them according to the usual standards and in the same numbers as in the past. We have not set a definite start date for them, but it will be no earlier than January 2011. We are encouraging current summer associates to consider pursuing a clerkship or NAP fellowship.
As you know, Ropes & Gray views summer associates as future lawyers and colleagues. We ask that you help us end their summer on a high note, and do what you can to help convince these talented professionals to accept their offers.
Thank you again for all of your help and dedication, and for the time you devote to our recruiting activities.
Earlier: Ropes & Gray: Defers Start Dates, Offers ‘New Alternatives’ For All Associates
Cravath Offers Voluntary Deferral to Class of 2009 — and Delays Class of 2010 a Full Year




Comments
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Firstymeister
they are so hosed
"no earlier than January 2011" = much much later than January 2011.
Damn great news, damn great news. It's way past overdue for the end of high-paying pussy jobs in BigLaw. Damn great news.
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Damn great news? Who says that? Three times for emphasis?
WilmerHale REMAINS top of the crop in Boston?
3 - Correction:
"no earlier than January 2011" = McDonald's is hiring; go bother them.
Anyone have an update on the ship? When last I saw it a few years ago, it was sailing fast and true, in a state of perfect buoyancy. I naturally assume that its condition is completely unchanged, but if you've heard otherwise please let me know. Thanks.
I dont think mcdonalds is hiring. They werent at oci.
4 & 5 = bottom 10% of the class at TTT
Ropes can kiss my ass, I probably won't even waste any time interviewing with them anymore.
-Heading to WilmerHale.
oh yea, WH's secrecy tops R&G's transparency any day
You will receive one employee sandwich or breakfast sandwich per shift. Apron and hat should be cleaned weekly by the employee. If you cannot make a shift, you must find someone to cover it for you.
What is McDonald's offer rate and layoff history? I can only go to a firm that gives offers to 100% of its interns, and has never had layoffs. Otherwise, think of their expected recruiting hit. They'll never get top level talent again.
If you graduate in May 2010 and start at Ropes in January of 2011, how is there time for you to do a clerkship?
Mystal is some kind of hell.
I love any post with a good Lost reference!
better than LATHAM NY. LATHAM NY laid off more half the first years. i'd rather get deferred than laid off.
*spits in Dave Gordon's hideous, withered face*
The ship be sinking.
By Elie's standards, this was a fine post. But I was left somewhat perplexed. What does this mean for summer associates at WILDMAN HARROLD?
Wait, what?
Cravath told its summers they are deferred until Fall 2011, not "sometime" 2011, AND they were told about their deferall stipend (65k+medical+1k/month for loans).
SKADDEN has not told its summers when in 2011 they will start, nor has it revealed whether there will be any sort of stipend.
Jesus, Elie, even the ATL story you linked to says that Cravath has a stipend and a start date (fall) for its current summers. What's wrong with you?
Ropes’ deferment plans would make Bernie Madoff proud.
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THE SHIP BE SUNK!!!
Replace every instance of "just like Cravath" with "just like Skadden" you idiot.
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What's this mean for class of 2009 associates who took their voluntary deferral?
Elie:
Cravath did not defer its current summers to "sometime" 2011 - it deferred them to Fall 2011. Cravath DID tell its summers what stipend they would get. It seems you have confused Cravath for Skadden, which has not given its deferred summers a stipend or a start date, or you just erred on the side of Cravath-hating as you usually do.
Make sure that when you update the post and replace all instances of Cravath with Skadden, you leave Cravath in with a strikethrough line through it, so people can see that you screwed it up the first time.
Oh god, it looks like the cravath trolls are out full force in a last ditch effort to preserve the value of their almost valueless prestige points.
I wish Howrey would have offered a longer deferral so its incoming associates could do something productive for a year instead of being stuck in Howrey's new "Tier 1 Associate Program," which we still know nothing about. I'd rather travel and enjoy my life for a year or do public interest work than sit in bull shit training for a third of my time.
30 - Read the linked-to Cravath post, then see if Ropes & Gray's deferment is "just like" the Cravath deferment. Bonus points if you look up the Skadden post (from the first day of their summer program) and compare it to Ropes & Gray's announcement. hth
-not 29 or 27
I would sleep soundly at night knowing my "Fall 2011" start date was secure
How many T's does it take to spell Ropes & Gray?
The management of Ropes & Gray realizes that the demand for legal services will not increase until after the second quarter of 2010. Therefore, a 2011 start date for the class of 2010 makes sense.
and I just want to add that I don't even work there, I'm just extremely disappointed in Elie's post. The ONLY value Elie added to his copy-paste job was to make the connection between this deferal and the Cravath deferal, and that wasn't even correct. The Skadden deferal is much more problematic for their summers because it is vague and offers no promise of a stipend (and hence is "just like" the Ropes & Gray deferal).
The Cravath deferal, while shitty for their summers, at least tells them when they will start (a year later than what they expected) and exactly how much they will get as a stipend, which is likely going to be "top of the market" of deferal stipends for this summer class - believe me, there will be a lot more of these summer pre-deferals. The fact that Elie completely missed this fact is pathetic. By trying to "add value" and compare this Ropes & Gray deferal to Cravath, he actually confused the issue and misrepresented which firms are doing what - a disservice to both current and future summer associates.
-32
I have so much alcohol coming out of my pores that I really shouldn't be near any open flames.
Goodbye class of 2011!
this just in: bingham and mckee are merging
Just so you all know, Mystal is to be on Fox Business today at 2:30.
Change you can believe in.
28-
It basically means there's a snowball's chance in hell you'll have a job.
"Deferral" is the new "downsizing."
And before some idiot 2L posts the standard, tired response about the clout of law students and how they'll "remember" - no one in three years will "remember" this enough to care. And no law firm on the planet is afraid of the imagined self-importance of some 24-year-old snot.
With apologies to those deferred (I don't mean to celebrate it, but you do need to face facts).
40. Did Mystal win the Coney Island hot dog eating contest this weekend or something?
This is a bad move for R&G. When the economy turns around, law students will remember that R&G deferred to 2011. R&G--don't be shocked when you attend OCI and no-one signs up to interview with you. Your talent pool will shrink, clients will see that there is no-one around at R&G to do their work, and they will bolt. R&G will rue the day they deferred summers to 2011.
44,
Thank you for being that guy.
-42
45, No problem.
--44
42 - Isn't this GOOD news for Class of 2009 people who took the voluntary deferal? Now they at least know that they won't have to be squished in with another incoming class in 2010 - they will be starting by themselves now.
Basically any firm that has done full-year deferals will probably pre-defer its summers to 2011, to avoid a double-size starting class.
This is probably fine news for the class of 2009, but terrible news for the class of 2011 - just one more sign this fall's OCI will be the worst ever.
47,
For many firms, absorbing the '09 graduates will require an uptick in business, normal atrophy, or partners taking a hit.
Which of those are you willing to bet on? Even if one of them occurs, why wouldn't a firm absorb any of the innumerable senior attorneys floating around the eastern seaboard? You think they're really that excited about bringing in a green attorney that's not going to earn them money for the next 3 years?
-42
The ship be sinking...
Who wants a Fresca?
Mystal on Fox Business at 2:30. Tell your friends.
"You think they're really that excited about bringing in a green attorney that's not going to earn them money for the next 3 years?"
I'm curious as to where this "not profitable for the first three years" thing that keeps getting thrown around originates.
I repeat, Damn Fine News! No more pounding in the ass for you folks. Time to suck it up and get a real job. I'm thinking trash collection might have some openings for former or never have been BigLawyers.
These summers go to '11.
LOL @ 54
The Spinal Tap schtick is genius. More please.
Our vacation from uncertainty and doubt is over. Back we go to our natural state. No more guaranteed paydays capped by fat pensions funding two or three decades of driving golf carts around our gated community slurping bloody marys in the a.m. and gin and tonics in the p.m. while we wait to die. Time to learn again what it is to struggle; and how to prevail.
42/48,
I understand all that. I'm just curious as to how this news (pre-defering current summers) makes things any WORSE for the already-deferred class of 2009. I'd rather be entering fall 2010 knowing that it's just my class (or half my class) than fighting for space with an entire summer class from the year before.
So why should class of 2009 at Ropes be more worried than they were before? You just seem to be saying that the incoming class of '09 is screwed, and that whoever starts (or thinks they are starting) in 2010 is screwed, but that was nothing new. If anything this news makes it more likely that the '09s who defered WILL start in fall 2010.
-47
Elie: fix this f*cking post. Cravath's summers were told FALL 2011 (not "sometime") and they were given a very specific stipend. Skadden's summers were not. The Ropes & Gray is just like SKADDEN, not Cravath, you terrible terrible idiot. Your job was to copy and paste a f*cking memo. You managed to give misinformation about other firms' summer programs and make a weird, inaccurate LOST reference. Neither of these added value to the post. You are the worst.
I knew some douches who went to Ropes & Chains. How's that summer coming, brah?
“LEAVE CRAVATH ALONE *sob sob*”
Cravath associates are beside themselves. Get a hold of yourselves. No one cares if one detail is a little off. It doesn’t make you any less special.
61 = Skadden summer who is starting "sometime" in 2011 and not getting a stipend for it
30 = Ropes & Gray summer who is starting "sometime" in 2011 and not getting a stipend for it
Maybe these kids would have an easier time finding jobs out of graduate school if waves of foreign lawyers weren't flooding the United States.
Before long, foreign lawyers will make up half the associate work force in Big Law.
I would suspect that a similar fate is now in store for Goodwin summers.
lol 54. i bet you were saving that one.
Getting deferred indefinitely and believing that you actually have a job waiting for you is comedy gold from where I am sitting.
67 -
Out of curiosity, where do you sit?
68
InHouse Counsel for major foreign oil company.
67
Ropes is pretty crummy to incoming people these days...we have the WORST package of any incoming January 2010 1st years (20k ADVANCE...no stipend, we're borrowing from ourselves and basically making 140k now in 2010...compare to ANY other good firm and its insanely bad)
Now this, and the 2011 associates probably won't have anything resembling a good offer to hold them over until their job as well.
just sucks, we picked firms not knowing how they'd treat us in this circumstance, depended on their ranking to indicate how they would compare with other firms, then Ropes is the cheapest and least considerate of our needs.
They're not even paying for rooms to take the bar...anyone even hear of another biglaw not doing that?! its ridiculous, they've made mistakes hiring too many people and now we suffer for their mistakes.
no surprise they're doing this, and that they probably won't be considerate of the fact that the next summer class has no income now for something like 6 months after graduating. Also won't be surprised when WilmerHale takes #1 from them, wish I'd summered there instead :(
2009...oops Jan 2010 Associate
I was on a long deal with Ropes people about a year ago. There were 5 associates on the deal: two M&A guys, two debt people, and a first year who was running errands for all them. All five, according to the website are now gone.
(So am I.)
Ropes - Not all incoming associates are spoiled brats like 70. Most of us are glad that we still have a job lined up.
If you live up to your promises and have the 2009 class really start in January / have jobs still available for those of the 2009 class who decided to defer, I'll have no complaints.
And 70 - think about all your classmates who don't have any job. You're going to be fine.
54:
Literal L.O.L.
I salute you, my half-inflated Dark Lord.
Thank you, 72.
70, get a fucking grip on life. No one is going to give it to you pal, you arent entitled to shit.
Deferred incoming associate (not at R&G)
72/74 - yea if you haven't earned a great job, you can get on your back and submit to the will of however the firm wants to treat you. you'll clearly be laying on your back taking it from whoever will give it to you for quite a while.
for those of us who earned a great job and the right to make firms compete for you, we're a bit disappointed when they change the game and firms who have worse ranking and reputation are treating their people better...all we had to make our choices on were those ranking and representations. these things matter a great deal, we're not all just happy to "have" a job, some people got treated better on the basis of random luck. your deferral, however, seems warranted.
HA HA!!!! so, where's the outpouring of vitriol for Ropes??? The angry torch bearers were out in full effect when certain other firms announced deferrals. "ZOMG, [insert firm here] will NEVAR EVAR get anyone to werk there again!!11Eleventy!"
in your face, suckers!
Poor kids!
Hey 70 -- let us know who you are and we can ease your pain.
29 - The post has been corrected (with the requested strikethrough lines).
LOL, those deferred will never, ever start at their firms. I bet you anything Ropes (and others) are going to defer again. Expect a call after the bar!
Any news on summers at other firms? Wilmer? S&C? OMM? GDC? Foley?
Sidley to 2001 in DC
What? No quotes from Harry Rubin?
82: ah! time travels a bitch, huh?
81 - it is eerily silent in beantown.
no news on other summer programs in town.
82 what do you mean?
White & Case summers will begin 2011. See you then... if I'm still here.
R&G will be one of only a select few firms to 100% offer summers. Proskauer Rose is rumored to not offer any summers offers at the end of summer and somewhere between 30-50% when all is said and done.
R&G is doing the right thing in making offers to the very top law students who will be practicing law in Boston and has secured itself as the only class act in Boston.
A) why does Harrold have an extra r;
B) why is he a wildman
36 did not make the intern cut--
I feel your pain
I love that most of these "deferred" summers posting actually think they'll ever be starting. The firm picked a date out of its ass--it doesn't have a clue what January 2011 will bring, and neither does anyone else. That date isn't worth the email it's printed on. Time to come up with a Plan B, like the hordes of laid-off associates. This suckssss, but it's reality. Signing a $2500/month lease for January 2011 is not.
90 = skadden summer, now starting "sometime" in 2011
Ropes sent an email on Thursday to incoming associates saying its announcement regarding the current summer class has no effect on the January 2010 start date for the class of 2009.
Yet another reason I'm going to have a hard time writing that tuition check this fall (thanks BigLaw for stepping up to the plate and providing so many reasons to cringe in August and November). Can't I just 'defer' my tuition? Or promise to pay it and then rescind my promise? My professors clearly didn't perform to their expected level. They couldn't possibly meet their office hours because attendance dropped off. Clearly they should be laid off for cause in a stealthy fashion.
Peeved 3L
88, where'd you get that info from?
Here is the info about the Ropes deferral stipend:
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/good_news_for_ropes_grays_futu.php