1,

nice going!

-1 (now 2)

might as well grab 3rd, too!

-1,2 (and now 3)

fourth!

My salary stayed the same. Suck on my prestige, bitches.

SkaddenDC Secure

Again the blog is empty without nervous law students biding their time until the bar exam. Looks like the ad revenues are down for now, Elie.

I'm just spit-balling here, but might any Massachusetts lawyer whose salary is subsequently cut have a claim against Above The Law under Chapter 258C: Section 13 of the Massachusetts code (Good Samaritan statute)? Above The Law was attempting to help lawyers, by providing pertinent information regarding compensation, yet through their efforts such lawyers may suffer more harm. Now, yes, I understand that good Samaritan laws have been erected as a shield to protect citizens who try to help from overly litigious victims. But that doesn't mean that they've completely eviscerated the opportunity for victims to get a judgment against a person who was trying to help, but caused more harm than good. If other law firms read this news and follow Holland & Knight's lead, the damages to current Massachusetts lawyers could be significant.

Now I have not litigated as many casese

Quiet on here when all the usual comment trolls are filling in MBE bubbles.

I'm just spit-balling here, but might any Massachusetts lawyer whose salary is subsequently cut have a claim against Above The Law under Chapter 258C: Section 13 of the Massachusetts code (Good Samaritan statute)? Above The Law was attempting to help lawyers, by providing pertinent information regarding compensation, yet through their efforts such lawyers may suffer more harm. Now, yes, I understand that good Samaritan laws have been erected as a shield to protect citizens who try to help from overly litigious victims. But that doesn't mean that they've completely eviscerated the opportunity for victims to get a judgment against a person who was trying to help, but caused more harm than good. If other law firms read this news and follow Holland & Knight's lead, the damages to current Massachusetts lawyers could be significant.

Now I have not litigated as many cases under Chapter 258C: Section 13 as I have under Section 90 of the Restatement (Second) (Promissory Estoppel), but this seems like a clear-cut case of Good Samaritan liability to me. Can anyone suggest any refinements?

WHAT IS THE SHIP DOING???????????????????????

This... is an article... about (drumroll please):

A 7% SALARY CUT?!?!?!?!?!

IS THERE NOTHING, NOTHING ELSE TO WRITE ABOUT?!?!?!

-

How you like me now?

Kash earns more than $200,000 per year from her tax-free municipal bonds. This is in addition to her numerous other sources of income.

14 - I hear that she is also an owner in several commercial crustacean fisheries. These fisheries can be quite lucrative.

14,

Why ya talking to yourself? Huh? Huh??

-1,2,3 (now 15)

My salary hasn't been reduced either.

COUCH SECURE

11: It might not be big news to you, but associates appreciate that ATL exposes firms who are reducing salaries. The publicity, at least to some extent, keeps them honest. If firms start to feel like a 7% cut won't become public knowledge, then they'll all cut the 7% knowing that employees have few other places to go.

14 (now 13) here. Listen you fucking moderators, if you're going to remove comments, please leave the numbering in place and leave the "comment removed by moderator" tag. It makes it less confusing on the readers and alerts us to your censoring ways.

And if you censor my god-damned comments for alluding to crustaceans, you suck.

I WILL REDUCE YOU LIKE A FRENCH CHEF

MOM'S BASEMENT SECURE

15 - Seriously. ATL needs to (1) develop and publish a list of rules so that commenters know what is and is not appropriate and (2) stop removing comments and fucking up the numbering. Otherwise I look like I have multiple personality disorder.

-14

Any news on other florida firms?

The ship sinking is NOT individual law firms as much as the classes of 2010 and 2011....

I think Holland will fold soon.

Werent their PPP lackluster even in the good economy compared to other V100s?

ATL - you guys should run a controlled experiment regarding your readership. Post a story today about law firm management or operations, preferably something that requires knowledgeable commenters to have actually worked in a law firm as licensed attorneys. Make note of the number and quality of the comments.

Then run a similar story in a couple weeks, after the bar exam madness has passed. Hell, it can even be the same story but with different names. Check the number and quality of the comments to this second post and compare them to the first post. My guess is you'll have vastly more comments of vastly lower quality.

Pay cuts are just a prelude to more layoffs. Face it, there are far more lawyers than there is legal work to be done. Everyone is waiting for the economy to recover, but the only people who are landing gigs are those with cast iron connections going way back to the old country. Even when the economy does recover (read: it stops free falling), there will still be too many lawyers chasing too little work. $100K in student debt but that is only if you are one of the masochists who worked their way through law school; otherwise it is more like $150K. What are you going to do?

I'm a 2nd year associate at Holland & Knight who attended Seton Hall. Should I be worried about this?

When David Lat's getting banged in the derierre, he hollers and is tight.

NATIONWIDE SALARY CUT WATCH

ATL announces an across the board 75% pay cut.

For Elie

Who wins in a fist fight, Lat or Elie?

25- I'm a member of the class of 2011 at a T10. My plan is to get a job at Latham, get laid off 5 months after starting, and spend the next year or so bitching about it on ATL. I've heard that's a good way to reduce debt.

Comment removed by moderator.

29, that's easy, Roxanna

24, you assume that "quality" comments about law firm management or operations requires some kind of intelligence or insight. You are incorrect in that assumption.

24 = EPIC FAIL. Who the fuck cares.

I mean, really, what's the point? I'm not European. I don't plan on being European. So who gives a crap if they're socialists They could be fascist anarchists. It still doesn't change the fact that i don't own a car.

34 -

If this site is simply a bunch of clueless law students bitching about things they know nothing about, it's going to collapse pretty fast. Law students have no money and no financial future, which means there's no ad revenue to be made off them.

we have reached bottom.

24, here's a quality comment about law firm management: THE PARTNERS ARE FUCKING GREEDY. That's all you need to know and you'll get the system.

we have hit bottom

The ship be sinking...

Spessard Holland will come to smite you all.

30 - You have to admit those anti-Latham posts are very effective negative publicity. Now everyone knows what being "Lathamized" means, and I bet recruiting (from law schools and for laterals) wont be as easy for them when the economy turns around and lawyers have any choices. For a laid -off one year with nothing but debt and time-to-spare, thats not a bad return on effort.

The answers to questions 1-10 on the MBE are always ADDCBBAACC. I hope someone told the test takers.

Whenever I run across someone who holds lawyers in any kind of esteem, I point them to this website and its comments, and they are quickly disabused of that notion.

35 for the win.

30 - Wake up and smell the coffee: there was a tectonic shift on September 15, 2008 when Dick Fuld put out that asinine press release telling the world to f**k off and thus precipitating the collapse of Lehman and the financial world order along with it. Many of you will run down your savings before you recognize the reality of how bad things really are.

42 - T10 student here, and most people at my school would much rather work at less prestigious and lower paying firm than join the Latham team. They are literally blackballed.

It seems to me that H&K has tried to achieve a difficult balancing act of being both BigLaw and a lifestyle firm and as a result has come up short on both.

Their thing used to be a "no jerks" rule that was strictly applied and made H&K a nice place to be. But as they expanded quickly out of the south and merged with different firms-sometimes making broad offers to the incoming partnership to lock down the merger deal-they lost some control over who actually worked there.

I believe they were dragged kicking and screaming into the 140K and then 160K tiered compensation structure and when they did adopt the structure the steps up for midlevel and senior associates were smaller and more compressed than their peers; I have heard that their bonuses are traditionally sub $10K or even $5K for many associates, and I have heard that they fight their lawyers on reimbursements like cabs, late dinners, etc. So they have a reputation for being cheap which makes it hard to effectively compete for top talent outside of Florida. That makes their BigLaw aspirations difficult.

At the same time, going to 160K and joining other big firms in the race to maximize PPP has caused them (like many others) to raise rates quickly and demand more hours out of their lawyers. Combined with the trend away from "no jerks," that makes the lifestyle firm a difficult sell.

I have high regard for a number of the lawyers that I have dealt with there but overall it seems the leadership needs to decide what H&K should be and steer them in that direction.

I lied, jobs died. But this isn't about me. I have great health insurance.

I'm Barack Obama?

42 - You still do not get it do you? I am willing to bet that even those who were Lahamized by Latham will go back to work for them in a heartbeat, with a massive pay cut and free BJs thrown in for senior associates and up.

50 Read 47

42- I like revenge as much as the next person, but how much of their debt have they reduced while sitting on ATL crying their eyes out? There's return on effort, and then there's finding yourself a fucking job.

46- Go tackle a moving bus, douchenozzle.

-50

52 was actually written by 30, not 50. My bad 50.

-30 and 52

49, I'm not lying or Obama, but you are annoying.

50 - your mom works at latham

50/52 Where are all these jobs for laid off first years? And, btw you can look for a job and post on ATL ; they are not mutually exlusive. I also think Latham will be affected for a while by these posts..... Karma's a bitch.

My salary gets cut every year by around 50% due to taxes. Anyway, Holland & Knight sucks donkey dicks. It was a dipshit firm that grew into a larger dipshit firm. Who cares what they're doing with their salaries, because their business is second class and their work is second rate.

This would never happen at HK.

Did I mention that DLA is a toilet?

50 - by way of 55, i'll speak with yo' mama outside

48- nice insight on H& K pay compensation structure. There is a disconnect between how they present themselves to the world and lure in top talent, and how they are dealing with with realities of the economy now. I have a close friend who accepted an incoming Associate position with H& K. She had a number of offers at top big law firm and went with H& K- being promised the sun, moon, and stars. On March 17th she got the word her start date was delayed until January 2010- H& K not only didn't offer any stipend for delay, or opportunity to work for non-profit at reduced salary, they would not even address the request for a salary advance. Crickets chirped for many weeks- so my friend had to take out another loan to get through the months of unemployment.
All the other firms she turned down are being something in the form of compensation and communication for their in-coming associates.
H& K is treating their in-coming like crap and does deserve to be shamed for it.
Yeah, the economy is tough, but H& K needs to suck it up and have some decency on how they deal with the lives and livelihood of people who have committed to their firm.

#45 What is Ferris Beuller's Day Off?

The H&K lawyers I have worked with were decent enough lawyers, but the "no jerks" rule was definitely not in effect at that time. Actually, the best group of (former) H&K lawyers I know spun off into their own boutique partly because there were a lot of jerks.

Holland & Knight really isn't a very good law firm. For example, in Florida where they were founded, at best they are a far distant third behind Greenberg and Akerman (neither of which are worth writing home about).

All of these firms have a few really good lawyers, but most of their lawyers seem clueless. And all of them have many very highly compensated big guys that they need to sustain, so it was inevitable that H&K would do this after Akerman took the first step by reducing associate salaries 10%. I shudder to think what Greenberg is doing.

"so my friend had to take out another loan to get through the months of unemployment."

Cry me a river, 61. You'll find no sympathy here, or anywhere else for that matter, for your self-entitled, underqualified, friend.

65 Dont you get it? Taking out loan after loan is really stressful when your future is so uncertain. No where in 61's post does the friend sound self-entitled or underqualified, just unlucky with the choice of law firm. So.....why are you so angry/unsympathetic? I btw, am sympathetic.

In the end, all things return to the swamp in Florida.

What the f is Holland and Knight? Is it some sort of competitor to Medieval Times? You get to see Dutch Knights having sword fights?

"out loan after loan is really stressful when your future is so uncertain."

How many other people without a job are able to take out a loan to float their extravagant lifestyle? Pathetic.

65- what do you do in life? "Cry you a river?"
Law school is expensive- carrying a six figure debt is no joke.
Being "jerked around" by a firm is also no joke when you give up the opportunity to work at other firms who are offering same compensation.
My friend did a ton of research, she worked very hard in law school, and is literally sweating the bar exam today.
If you are a law school grad you know how difficult "the drill" is just to get through, never mind excel.
I'm not sure who all is posting here, but it would be useful to read some cogent posts.
Enjoy the ATL site but as the case with many websites where anon. posters can write anything- I suspect there is a whole lot of "trolling" going on.

69- Extravagant lifestyle?! Where do you get that? That's almost comical. No, though many of recent grads ate still able to swing a bar trip- my friend was not one of them. In fact she is willing and able to work pro bono if she can. Worrying about how one is going to pay the piper is real & constant. You think law students and grads as a whole are independently wealthy or supported by parents? Where did you go to school and where are you practicing law?

50 - I concede your point that many who were Lathamized by Latham would likely go back if given the opportunity. However, that does not necessarily mean that HK or Latham will be uneffected by their brutal treatment of associates.

Law students are all over this site, and are taking notice of the these issues. I recognize that layoffs were necessary - even inevitable - given the state of the economy and the flawed business models of massive firms, and don't hold it against any firm that needed to make cuts in order to continue operating profitably (or more profitably).

However, the METHODS that a firm uses when conducting layoffs are a different story. As I rising 2L at a T25 school, I understand that my chances of getting on at biglaw for the summer 2010 are slim. However, if an opportunity arose at one of the above-mentioned firms, there is no way I would accept it only to be not offered, laid off five months after starting, or pushed back until 2055.

I'd rather start at a smaller or midsized firm and fight my way to the top, and think that most other students in my position would too. In the long run, a good number of very qualified young lawyers who normally would have been pushing papers for 4 years at biglaw will take jobs with smaller firms, get experience earlier in their careers, and become formidable opponents to the hirees who do take biglaw jobs.

In addition to looking to smaller firms, students at the top of their class that do manage to get biglaw offers are more likely to join a firm, even if it has layoffs, that did so in a moderately humane way.

72,

You are on to something there. You can start out at a smaller firm and move into biglaw in certain practice areas, particularly when it is an associates' market. But by the time you get the experience, you will quickly realize that biglaw (and the law in general) is not all its cracked up to be. Especially if you have a family.

Just remember, you earn that extra money in biglaw. Every penny of it.

The NY Post reported today Holland & Knight is sub-leasing 80,000 square feet of office space from Clifford Chance. If this is true, that is more than 25,000 less than they currently have downtown. Not a good sign for Holland & Knight...

72- good and logical thinking. It's definitely wild card time when it comes to taking an offer with a big law firm.
And yes you are right it is the methods and treatment of current and incoming associates and other law staff that is telling on where priorities are or aren't.
H& K was good at hiding what their true bottom line was- and it's not in caring about their reputation with their attorneys.
If you treat your attorneys like dirt- then way would anyone want to be your client?
Many big law firms have handled the worse recession since the depression with candor and with "our people first" approach.
Holland & Knight isn't one of those firms.

H+K's July salary cuts followed initial cuts made in February when H+K cut 2009 associate salaries up to 20% depending on 2008 hours.

Does anyone have any information on Greenberg Traurig?

76 is right on. Of course H&K left that part out. This is their 2nd round of salary cuts (better to announce 7% now and take the heat off their first round of 15-20% cuts back in February/March).

Correct 76. important point.

12- give it up already. Barry has been president for 7 months now. He is the one waging class warfare. He is the one who campaigned for the stimulus and told the American people it would create jobs. Accept it. Obama lied, jobs died.

72 – People who start out at smaller firms NEVER become formidable opponents to the guys at the big national/transnational outfits. The game changes dramatically once you step down the tier. Not that you cannot make money at smaller firms, but you are meeting different clients and becoming versed in very different aspects of the law. For this reason, despite knowing how bad it is at big law firms, many law school graduates still aspire to work at a big law firm for at least 3-4 years to figure out if they can hack it at that level. If not, they can always waft to the next level down. The flow of talent is unidirectional: only from big law down, and never from smaller firms up.

As and when Latham hires again, they will never need worry about attracting enough potential recruits. But from the way that Latham is behaving, it appears that the firm is in deep distress. So Latham haters can rejoice, the big ol' skunk might just drown in its own piss.

50, 46, 25

"I shudder to think what Greenberg is doing"

Greenberg is doing what it always does - not paying people who don't produce, operating a revolving door partnership (while claiming that it is attracting so many lateral partners because it is doing so well, when in fact it is the last chance saloon for lateral partners who can't get hired elsewhere), managing the firm in an ultra-secretive, divide and conquer fashion, and lining the pockets of the ruling clique.

Greenberg and H&K are both scumbag outfits. What else would you expect from Florida?

H&K paid below market even in good times. They paid 160k in Chicago to match the market at the only public (NALP) level, but paid below market every year thereafter even in good times. My third year associate offer was for 175k when the market for third years in Chicago was 210k at the time. They also only offered a 10k clerkship bonus for two judicial clerkships (or one - no extra money for the second) when the market for two clerkships in Chicago at the time was 75k. Their bonuses were anemic, averaging 7k for meeting 1900 billables, and the upside was next to nothing so most just met the 1900 and didn't care. The extra bonus was not worth the lost QWL. Associates were begging for work and doing pro bono a lot to even get up to 1900 hours required. The work is just not there. They also yanked an offer that was accepted to a clerk who summered there while on the federal judical clerkship.

Third rate firm.....not fiscally healthy and cheap to its people. Go elsewhere if you can.

Baker & McKenzie had a salary cut of 20% across the board in Hong Kong! Some got cut as much as 1/3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

81 - That is not true. I can point to many examples of very successful partners at my firm (top 15 ppp) who started at small or mid-sized firms. I know that the same is true at other big firms.

81 - That is not true. I can point to many examples of very successful partners at my firm (top 15 ppp) who started at small or mid-sized firms. I know that the same is true at other big firms.

86 – My last comment on this thread. It depends on what kind of small firm these people began their careers at. Small firms that were started and staffed by partners from big law firms are obviously different from the run of the mill small practice in that the people you work with do have the requisite experience. In this instance, we might want to refer to such firms as small ‘big law’ practices; meaning that they are small firms which thrive in niche areas of the big law game. Also, big law firms are not all about corporate finance. There is room in these shops for people catering to high net worth individuals doing trust related work for instance. And the relationships that are required for such work can come from any right exposure. The small law firms which I referred to, the ones that law students today have to apply to for lack of alternatives, are small grungy affairs where you are almost better off working for yourself than taking orders from the desperado. These people NEVER move up. It is like going to law school in Montana, you would have to be smoking some strong weed to believe that it is ever possible for you to work New York doing M&A.