first

Thirdsty!!!

Thirdsty!!!

1, how could you be first if Elie posted at 2:52 pm? I smell a conspiracy!

How you like me now?

Elie - Stop making a big deal out of nothing. You report if firms dont say anything, you report when firms are open, wtf?

"All you can expect from the firms is honesty and timeliness"?! WTF! I expect more than that. I expect a job!

Making 5 figures in my BOMB SHELTER SECURE

I've heard the offer number will be in the 30-40% range. Best of luck guys.

Who caused the financial crisis? Simon Johnson and John Talbott are dead on:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/07/22/economic_crisis_part_one/index.html

There goes my shot at a 3500 square foot wife.

Generally when a firm does this its b/c they're planning on no-offering a bunch of associates. The 30-40% cited above seems extreme, but then again these are strange times we live in.

They should do the right thing and not offer. They should also do the right thing and not interview for the 2011 batch. The Class of 2011 needs to know it is the lost generation - the faster, the better - so that they can plan alternate careers outside the law.

Not worried about this.

Seton Hall Secure

30-40% getting offers is a little extreme... I'd say 65-75% will get offers with deferral to 2011.

If they decide to no-offer people, I hope they have the balls to do it to their faces. I can think of nothing lower than no-offering someone via letter or phone call after they spent 12 weeks working with you.

Actually, email would be lower. But that's as low as you can possibly get.

Okay, so Twitter would be lower. And skywriting. Bottom line is partners are cowards.

Schulte is wildly successful and profittable but as greedy as they get. Spoiled by hedge funds paying bills without question because funds were so flush with cash. Now funds are in the toilet -- thanks to great deal structures by lawyers, but that is for a different conversation -- and Schulte cannot get paid 150% on each outragous bill. Partners still want high profit take-home pay.

I'm glad I got that hope and change I voted for...

13 - I think you are spot on.

It's easy to offer everyone. Its similarly easy to no offer everyone. I also think its not too difficult to offer 25% (superstars). However when you are looking at extending offers to around 65-70% it becomes much more difficult to decide who is actually in the 30th percentile vs the 29th percentile.

Their office is a dump. Doesn't smell quite as bad as Lock Lord Houston, but it is still a shit hole.

Skadden Secure

Does anyone on the inside know how badly Schulte must really be hurting? I've heard it's a nigthmare there.

Will they be following the Latham model? That is, hire twice as many people as you need then lay off half of them four months after they start. It's an excellent way to destroy lives if that's your goal.

First!

This kind of thing will happen everywhere...

17, if I were gonna get no-offered, I'd much prefer to have it done over the phone than be dragged into the office for bad news. Don't be an idiot.

If they decide to no-offer people, I hope they have the balls to do it to their faces.
__________________________________________

Would you really want them to call you back in just to tell you that you won't be coming back?

Class of 2011 is the lost generation.

>>If they decide to no-offer people, I hope they have the balls to do it to their faces. I can think of nothing lower than no-offering someone via letter or phone call after they spent 12 weeks working with you.

Wow, that's a great idea! Fly people back to NY one by one, tell them they don't have an offer, then fly them back! You're managing partner material, you are....

I took a huge Schulte this morning in the men's room down on 16. Huge!

Freudian slip on the part of the partner.

For you 2011's - look at the Duke thread. That's happening everywhere; it's not just something against Duke.

boston

Schulte summers, you should place the utmost extreme of confidence in your law firm and completely and blindly trust everything they say, they will never lie to you, for example, just last year Latham promised all of its associates that it is well managed, well balanced, and would never do layoffs

The ship be sinking...

30, I'm happy to hear that! My Latham has been clogged all morning. I could only hope for a huge, flowing Orrick like yours.

The person posing as Michael Ray Richardson is a tool.

8 - why do you expect a job?!? amazing people are losing jobs every day all over the country and you EXPECT a job? i think it's time for a reality check. we're in a recession, 8.

those of us who have a job are really blessed to be weathering the storm employed (and we should all be thankful every day!).

those who don't -- try not to lose hope (this hard time will pass eventually)... but do try to lose the sense of entitlement. nobody has job security right now.

I would hope anyone posting as "[Insert name of firm] Secure" is joking. Anyone who thinks they're secure at any firm in this economic environment is beyond delusional.

Class of 2011: the class that never was.

WHAT HAPPENS TO A JOB DEFERRED?

CAMBRIDGE POLICE SECURE

To # 23 - I don't give a damn about Latham or any other Big Law firm but to claim they "destroyed lives' by laying off associates is absurd. Just whose life has been "destroyed" by losing a job where you would, in 20 years or so if you made partner, have a high probability of looking like a pasty-faced, overweight, out-of-shape, pompous jerk? Just whose life is "destroyed" if you find another job or career (and its a lot easier at the age of most laid off associates) that you actually might enjoy MORE even hough it pays less? Just whose life is destroyed by the loss of "prestige" when perhaps ONE PERCENT of the population has ever heard of even one of the blue-chip firms such as Skadden or Cravath, much less "Latham" which used to be "Latham, Wathkins & Hills"? Think of your compatriots in the Army and Marines who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, who lost their lives or were severely disabled for life and tell me that your life was "destroyed" by a layoff by some pompous white collar law firm and I'll call you a simpleton who doesn't realize how lucky you have it and how much of a wonderful life is ahead of you by comparison.

I'm just happy that I got to see Erin Andrews nude. I only wish the video had better resolution.

40 ftw.

Deferred associates will never start at their respective firms. Period.

The age of entitlement to BigLaw jobs (or any law jobs for that matter) is over. From this day forward, you will actually have to know more than a talented monkey to be a BigLaw junior associate. Just remember, document review is not a viable skill set.

I don't get why this is news?

Even last year most firms didn't do the "last day offer party" thing.

I was at a V20 and we got letters a couple weeks later.

44 - No one has any idea what the economy and the demand for legal services will be in one, two or three years. It is not a foregone conclusion that deferred associates will never begin work (but perhaps a high probability).

I am a jobless rising 3L at Michigan and I am going to kill myself

41 got it exactly right.

I am a middle aged lawyer. I worked in big law-- in fact I started at Cravath, then gradually worked myself on down as my personal life grew to include more responsibilities to others and matters unrelated to big law. In short, I grew up.

But recently, primarily because I was a service partner, I was laid off. No one wanted to do it, and it wasn't sheer greed on the part of the rainmakers, but that played a part. It was the fact that our clients weren't doing deals.

Now, I am competing for absolutely no jobs with you kids. I have tons more experience, but you have longevity and more energy and fewer responsibilities.

Things are bleak. I don't have a lot of assets and right now I don't have an income. I am still doing a little work for my old firm and things that come to me.

But being laid off certainly did not "destroy my life". Far from it. It provides me with a hiatus to get closer to my 7-year old child, to pay attention to things that make me a better person. I will not starve, but I might be working as a bartender or at Home Depot, if things get really tight.

But no. My life is not "destroyed". In many ways it has been enhanced.

Sounds like Schulte is just trying to avoid a PR
disaster during recruitment and once it's over, they will
let all the current summers know their awful fate

how is this news

11

Best post by anyone in weeks, although the Trout Cave still has me snickering.

Why wait? Just make the decisions now. Or at least within a week of the program ending, then those no-offered, have more time to figure out what to do, like do a clerkship or work at mcdonalds.

41 - i hate u.

"hope for the best, and prepare for the worst."

I wish Elie was my dad.

Thanks 49. Those are encouraging words, I suppose.

I'm very curious. Do you have any regrets about the career/profession you chose? If you had to do it over again, what would change? What career advice will you give your child?

49 - With respect, reasoning backwards to arrive at a convenient conclusion (i.e. that I am happy to be asked to leave) is what you do in Courts on behalf of clients, not what you do on forums. It would be easier to accept the argument if you did it on your own volition.

What do you call a SECURED black professor?

Very secure.

So what. Pillsbury only let us know about a month after the summer program ended last year if we had an offer. Besides - even if they do get offers, as we all know - it means NOTHING. Keep your marks up and don't think you've got it made if you get an offer.

"But if the firm couldn't tell the summers anything concrete, why have the meeting in the first place?" Just guessing, but maybe, and I'm just guessing here, because as YOU WROTE IN THE EXACT SAME POST: "Schulte traditionally makes offers to people on their last day at the firm -- and this year the firm's summer program ends this Friday." Is it so difficult to realize that if all summers were expecting decisions two days from now, and the firm decided it was not going to make any decisions, it would make sense to inform them of that information? What would YOU expect the firm to do...let them all show up on Friday and casually ignore the fact that decisions regarding offers haven't been made? Classic ATL - taking whatever information it receives and manipulating it into a huge, speculative story. And no, I don't think there's any chance Schulte will extend offers to a significant portion of their summer class, but neither will 95% of the other "biglaw" firms (nor will the majority make those decisions at the end of the summer as in years past).

SCHULTE STRONG

NEW YORK—According to all sources, the law firm of Schulte Roth & Zabel is strong. The firm is united, the practices unmatched, the work vibrant, and the lawyers ever joyful.

Similarly correct sources verified that Schulte has always been triumphant.

In other news, the executive committee is fair, all-knowing, and wise, propelled by the strength of eight hundred loyal hands, all pulling together as one under the Great Celestial Bureaucracy high above.
Experts all agreed that there can be no question of this claim, as this claim is the truth.

As of press time, the brute and inexpressive posts on Above the Law could not convey the full magnificence of Schulte, nor its excellence in every arena, nor the protective warmth of the fluorescent lights that shine forever on its offices, nor the innumerable glories of its Great Leaders.

New reports also indicate that Schulte will grow stronger yet.

Was a LaTTTham staffer. Not sure why the wanna be associates are complaining about their lives being ruined. Why doesn't anyone ever think or care about us staffers or our families or lives that were ruined because some partners who got big, fat and greedy on lies, decided they wanted to buy more fast cars and spouses instead of doing the right thing and sucking it up and dealing with the downturn like real men and women.

It's a same the classes of 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 at the ivy league schools won't be getting treated like the prima donna divas they think they. Oh well, suck it up and do some real good for the world!

Was a LaTTTham staffer. Not sure why the wanna be associates are complaining about their lives being ruined. Why doesn't anyone ever think or care about us staffers or our families or lives that were ruined because some partners who got big, fat and greedy on lies, decided they wanted to buy more fast cars and spouses instead of doing the right thing and sucking it up and dealing with the downturn like real men and women.

It's a same the classes of 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 at the ivy league schools won't be getting treated like the prima donna divas they think they. Oh well, suck it up and do some real good for the world!

Suffolk law is the duve of fourth tier toilets

Have you guys heard about the Harvard Professor who got hassled by police and is crying racism? Its a hot new story. VERY new. you heard it here first!

57, career-wise, it's possible to arrive at a better place other than trhough one's volition. For people in this profession that outcome rather is predictable.

I am a 1L at Suffolk Law- what are my chances at Shulte?

62 & 63: I'm really sorry to hear about your situation - I realise it must suck - but you're expecting highly-privileged, self-righteous and quite-frankly spoilt kids to start doing work for a change, or god forbid, care about anyone but themselves?

I'm with you in theory but there's a higher chance of NY Biglaw moving to $250k. If there's one thing this board shows, its that when kids who've never had to work for a single day don't get the "privileges" of high-pay and useless-doc-review-work that they think is their right, they whine and whine as opposed to doing something about it.

56, I will get back to you. I literally have to run out and yours deserves a thoughtful response.

57, I perhaps did not articulate too well. Essentially, my firm imploded, and the litigators who specialize conveniently in foreclosures saw all of us corporate types as drags. We were all gone except for one or two who are being paid by the hour for hours actually collected.

I think I got the better deal, among the more important hiatus reasons, for economic reasons, too. I can free lance a bit-- I'm not professionally tied to anything. Yeah, I need a job. Duh!

I am not trying to look backwards and justify a happy result. My result is not all happy. However, it did not "destroy" my life. Take what I said for what I said. You, know. I'm okay. I'll go on. And in the interim, I'll be as positive and happy as I can be. I'm not looking for any wilderness to disappear into.

Your argument was cute, though.

66 - What does your last sentence mean?

GRRRRRRR, 11 is SO right! Why doesn't anyone understand that NOTHING AT ALL was wrong with the economy until Obama took office? It's so obvious AND NO ONE SEEMS TO REALIZE IT. SON OF A GUN I'M ANGRY ABOUT THIS. I wish we could just go back to November when everything was perfect, and then not elect Obama! What would happen then? Uh, DUH, I think we all know- everything would STILL be perfect!!!!!

69, 57 here. Sorry - I realize that I may have judged you too quickly. My apologies for any imputation made earlier. Hope you're coping well though!

69 - 57 here. Sorry I may have misjudged your intentions a little too quickly. Sorry about that, and hope things work out for you!

Here's the only way to deal with this situation: close down the law schools for three years, especially those from t15 on down. There's no way that the market will absorb all these people and the do-nothing faculty and administration should feel the pain from the economy like everyone else.

There are 3 girls from Boston in my summer associate class and they all stink. Is this what everyone has been talking about? The other girls don't fart.

71 -

That's what I've been saying all along.
Too bad I couldn't have run for a third term!

75

Ask to see their gaping Massholes and get shat on and your wallet stolen.

End of story.

Thank you 69. I look forward to your thoughts.

57, 69 here. You are gracious.

i heard the best buy on 5th avenue is hiring. hahahaha

all you summer associates should get together and sue these guys..

80

For this, I paid $250,000 to get the finest legal education possible? I think not. I will not be wearing Best Buy blue polo shirts.

75, those three girls are actually one MysTTTal

Haven't they heard--

the Calif. Bar has been deferred to 2013

They will be making offers to associates who happen to have uncles that are partners in Schulte.

The rest of you are SOL.

69, 57 here. Thanks - I suppose it was just my deep cynicism - no doubt partly the result of my legal education, and partly given the present economic situation - that got the better of me the first time.

67, you should drop out.

82 - so you owe $250K with no job prospects? Or do you have a job or one lined up? Why on earth would you want to go $250K in debt for a legal education? In all honestly you could have gotten a good education at a lesser school with ties to smaller cities, have less debt and more than likely be a better and more experienced lawyer in fewer years. Why is it SOOO important to be a BigLaw lawyer that you would pay $250K for that education and the possibility that you may be able to pay the loans back. Of course the cost of that includes a life, and possibly a personality, but PLEASE explain that to me. It just makes no logical sense.

Has PE gone home for the day? I'd be interested to get his take on whether rejections should be delivered face-to-face

89

PE has problems of his own; like being arrested and booked in Chilmark in Martha's Vineyard for engaging in sodomy with another similarly unappealingly pale white old guy only feet away from a public beach frequented by families on vacation.

The job situation won't improve until the government and the bar begin tightening controls on the legal and illegal presence of foreign lawyers in U.S. law firms. If foreigners account for 15-25% of associates at Big Law, the government should simply put an end to its profligate issuing of work visas--at least until the U.S. employment market stabilizes.

Shutting down U.S. law schools won't solve the problem. These American kids, and good people like 49/69, will still need jobs.

88

$250,000 in debt and no job prospects. For a while I amused myself by posting obscure Dune references here but now........ I live in my mom's basement which smells like ripe cheese in the summer all the while trying to maintain my sanity and good cheer.

92 - Ouch, I hope you are being ironic. If not, then well good luck. Would you do it all over again?

Ya'll are just livin in a gangstas paradise.

Good bye Big Law, won't miss you...As a poster earlier said "ship be sinking." I hope it never recovers.

53, my firm will wait because they think they will be able to make MORE offers then if they had to decide now.

71,

Did you even read the article? That's not what these guys are saying AT ALL. Your response makes no sense.

-11

There used to be 1 Kenny a class. Now there is a whole class of Kennys!

Boston chicks suffer from chronic anal leakage according to the Boston Globe and a recent study by the CDC.

Wasn't schulte top 10 in profits? they must be doing HORRIBLY.

I fart alot and I like it. Takes guts to fart loudly and proudly - especially in a law firm.

My son made fart jokes when he was 7. They were not funny then.

Lat, and Elli, can you please check and see whether there is a link to this site on Sesame Street's link?

These posts, thank you 101 and others, are offensive.

Kudo's to 102. These are scary times and this is serious subject matter. Grow up - all of you.

49 is a liar.

49, here, Jr.-- oh, I mean 104. I am not a liar. I was not a liar either when I was 69.

Now perhaps you can edify all of us with your wisdom as to how we should live our lives.

Delightful comment, though.

49/69/105 - Would still be interested in your perspective.

-56

49 = 104, which leads to a logical conundrum - if 104 alleges 49 to be a liar, how can 104 be 49 if 104 is a liar and therefore cannot be believed?

I'm immensely deep.

56, 49 et, al. here. I do and will tell my 7-year old son to do whatever he wants to do-- except being a lawyer. Most lawyers, unless they are in regulatory stuff, are fighting with people all day long. We tend to be overly aggressive and territorial. Those are not attributes that I would like my son to have.

The only fight I ever lost with my parents was going to law school. They wanted a "professional" in the family. I wanted to be a journalist. My folks told me to try law school for a year, and I did. I hated it, but as you know, after your first year, law school is over with-- you just put in time thereafter, or in my case, work on law review, make friends and skip classes.

Then if you are lucky you go to NY (or some similar city) get sucked in, get hooked on the money, and so on. Eventually the energy just gets sapped out of you and you go to other places where you are a superstar with less work to do and more time to pursue those things that make your life.

I don't really think anybody could have predicted this economic crunch that we are in. Employment is a lagging economic indicator. Lot's of firms have imploded, big ones and small ones. Transactional lawyers are worthless right now. I do believe we are going to be useful in the future, but I just don't know when.

But I'll get back to the point I made in my first post. This is not destroying my life. I am by no means ruined. For heaven's sake, kids, don't think there aren't good, if challenging things ahead.

And 104 will call me a liar again.

the problem here is that, really, who is going to hire a non-offered summer associate from schulte? that's like being rejected from community college.

What is TTT?

TTT = schulte

TTT= third tier toilet; A law school ranked in the bottom 50th percentile in the US News rankings, and unlikely to have a reputation for quality outside of its home city. I.e. Florida International; Lewis Clark; Capital.

By analogy, certain law firms are considered third tier toilets relative to their ranking in the Amlaw 100 or Vault 100.

Do NOT pay to attend a TTT. They generally are private schools with Harvard level tuition and no reputation for job prospecting. You will be able to sit for the bar, and if you happen to pass, you will be able to begin a career in ambulance chasing, family law or public defending. All useful enterprises, but providing insufficient revenue to service 100K of debt.

I'm in 49 immensly deep.

Wonder if expanding the office by 2 massive floors at the end of '07 was a smart move by SRZ.

Schulte Roth & Zabel - The name says it all.

Schulte is a freekin toilet.

49/69/108: I wish our firm had a job opening of any kind, as I'd like to hire you just on general principles. You have a terrific outlook on things, and you will be fine. It's a rare and wonderful thing to find a bit of genuine and thoughtful commentary in the ATL comment threads.

Thanks, 117. That made me smile this evening.