Too Much Free Time at Winston & Strawn?
Last summer, Winston & Strawn only had a 90% offer rate for summer associates. Last year, that was worrisome. This year, summers would likely injure baby seals for a 90% offer rate.
Summers are getting nervous, and it appears that a video conference from Winston’s managing partner, Tom Fitzgerald, didn’t help matters. Here is one tipster’s report of the proceedings:
The entire Winston summer class watched a video-conference speech given by Tom Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald explained that we would be notified of offers during Labor Day weekend. We were also told that the demand for legal services has plummeted, and that we were very talented and would do well no matter whatever field or firm we joined. He even talked about some past Winston summers who went on to do great things … Overall Tom seemed to be preparing us for a slaughter come September. He also mentioned at the end of his address that those who did get offers would start January 2011 at the earliest. Needless to say the summers were feeling pretty s****y.
We haven’t been able to confirm that Winston & Strawn will be instituting a mandatory deferral for summers that receive an offer to return full-time.
Of course, it’s not all bad news for the firm. Just last week, Winston hired Thomas Cottingham III and a number of other attorneys from Hunton & Williams. The move should bolster Winston’s Charlotte office — good news for the firm, as well as the city of Charlotte.
But expanding during a recession is always a difficult thing to do. After the jump, take a look at one attorney’s thoughts about how Winston’s expansion in China is going — thoughts apparently intended for the firm’s former and current chairmen, but accidentally disseminated firm-wide.
UPDATE AFTER THE JUMP (1:00 P.M.): One Winston tipster says the “attorney” weighing in on the Chinese expansion is just a spammer.
Last November, we reported that Winston & Strawn was expanding its Asian operations with the help of refugees from Heller Ehrman.
But in the eyes of one Winston attorney based in Hong Kong, this acquisition has not benefited the firm. The email was apparently sent, accidentally — whoops! — to every Winston attorney.
UPDATE (1:00 P.M.): One Winston tipster challenges the authenticity of the e-mail below, writing:
FYI, it was not a legitimate e-mail and reveals nothing about the goings on at the firm because it was a spam e-mail (obvious from the number of errors in the e-mail — no W&S attorney—American, Chinese, or otherwise—would send an e-mail to Dan Webb and Jim Thompson with so many errors). We have received a number of these spam e-mails over the past few months and everyone at the firm knows that they are fake.
Here’s the e-mail:
Dear [former firm chair] James Thompson and [current chair] Dan Webb;Good morning!
Time runs so fast. 9 months have passed since we met in Chicago last time. I hope you are fine and also bless the depression will not cause trouble to the firm.
It appears that the takeover of Hellerehrman Beijing office is a terrible choice. I went to China for several times this year. I heard that Hellerehrman ever had a very big corporate team in Beijing, but they all went to HK and founded the Proskauer Roze HK office. I wonder why you acquired its beijing office even there is no lawyer in the office. I heard from somebody that the employees in the beijing office have nothing to do but play basketball in the huge office everyday, is it true?
Maybe you should reconsider whether or not to keep the Beijing office. Take a look at the financial statement and find out how much they have earned and lost for the firm. I suggest you drop the Beijing office and use money to hire more talented lawyers in HK. For the Asian business, forming a better HK office is much better than waste huge to rent a huge office in beijing.
Best wished for you and the firm!
Regards,
There are worse things than playing office basketball in China. Like being a no-offered summer associate, for instance.
Winston & Strawn Adds High-Profile Litigators in Charlotte and D.C. [Winston & Strawn]
Earlier: Nationwide No Offer Watch: Winston & Strawn
Winston & Strawn Reaps Heller Rewards
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FIRSTY!
SECONDY!
THIRDSTY!!
5 is TTT
It's better than hiring LOTS of people to come in as first years just to lay off half of them like Latham NY
Hey! Not true
So, why exactly is Winston hiring somebody from Hunton "good for the city of Charlotte"??
5--Latham laid off first years?!?! Why haven't I read anything on ATL about this?
5 - no you loserass punk. When those fired ppl are given severance WAY above market, it ain't. Jerk off.
Best wishes to my Winston brethren. Here's hoping that all who deserve an offer get one.
9 = Latham recruiting
it will be a no offer blood bath at most NYC firms.
9, getting laid off as a first year fucks up your life because you lose out on every opportunity for entry level attorneys, like government honors programs, but don't have the experience to compete in the lateral market.
That's why only shithole firms lay off first years
If the guy who wrote the WS "China office" memo is a lawyer, then judging by his/her lack of facility with the English language and grammar school grammar, its no wonder the firm is having its "trubbles".
Just what is actually going on at the WS Charlotte office? The whole bank leveraged finance play WS made with the first set of hires is now a bust, right?
I have never before commented on the grammar problems that now permeate this blog - but this post is truly absurd. Between Ellie, the tipster and the Winston attorney, the legal profession should be embarrased. I don't care if the Winston dude is an ESL person - that's just a pathetic email.
7-I clicked on the comments to make that exact same comment. How is that good for Charlotte? Just because W & S is a carpetbagging yankee firm and H & W is a Richmond firm? What other effect does it have, honestly?
Duh. Fun fact summers--you will not know whether or not you are in trouble since the vast majority of people at W&S will not directly inform you of anything other than "you're great, etc." It's one of the "nicest" (read passive aggressive) places in big law. Good luck on your clerkships apps kids.
Don't you guys get it? 5, will throw out some stupid comment in every post including the name of the firm that fired his sorry ass just to keep the (non) story alive. Fact is, his former firm has moved non the worse while he remain bitterly frozen in time.
Better to get a no offer asap, rather than being circle jerked around, later to find you're deferred well after you could at least try to get a judicial clerkship.
Biglaw for the most part is a crappy business model that worked well in an environment of continually increasing asset prices, but is faltering amidst deflation. Unless it's one of the top firms like Williams & Connolly or Wachtel, Biglaw, for the most part, is pretty much toast.
If you're a 1L or 2L and you were only in this for the money, cut your short losses and get out now. If you're in it for the law or some "higher" calling go to the cheapest school you can, minimizing your student loans. You may have no shot at biglaw, but at least you will not be a debt slave.
Latham SUCKS!
I agree with 21
Good call, 4.
I don't get all the anti-Latham layoff victim screeds. Have some empathy. What happened to them was pretty awful, severance or no. Empathy was that feeling you sometimes had for fellow humans before you became a lawyer. What if it had happened to you?
Moreover, if you don't like them just ignore them. It is important they keep the story going so future generations of students know to go there only as a last resort.
12 - you're kidding yourself if you think the no-offer bloodbath will be in any way limited to NYC firms. With very few exceptions, I'd much rather be a summer at a V30 NYC firm than at a "top" Cali/Chicago/Texas/Atlanta/Midwest firm right now.
I find it funny that the best argument that the Latham lovers can now come up with for why the Latham bloodbath is acceptable is "well, we overpaid for severance, so there!"
What, no Dr. Thio story?
24 -
90% chance those comments are coming from Latham partners/recruiting
You are all underqualified idiots.
-LATHAM SECURE
What's that sound? It's the biglaw bubble deflating!
What ever happened to "one firm, firm" Latham? Guess not so much now, huh?
24 - poeple get fired. People have been getting fired. There have been FOUR rounds of layoffs at CWT. What makes the Latham victims any special for the rest of us who have been laid-off? If anything those first years did not have a spouse, kids and a mortgage to support. Personally, I am truly sick of the whiny laid-off Latham d-bags populating this blog.
*Lays off 29 and 32*
-Latham
I am a soon-to-be law student and therefore new to this site. What is the difference between a "prestigious firm" and a "peer firm"? Are these essentially the same thing?
32, and now those Latham first years never will have a spouse, kids, or mortgage, asshole, because Latham skull fucked their careers.
The ship be sinking...
wow... the guy who wrote that beijing memo really cannot right. He's either a foreigner or an incompetent idiot, so either way his opinion does not matter. Ironic that the observer brings up Proskauer Roze, which itself opened up 3 or 4 foreign offices in the year leading up to the recession and then followed up with several rounds of stealth layoffs and then several rounds of open layoffs, and fired most of their corp first years based on performance reviews from their summers largely because they brought in their largest summer assoc class ever this summer. Good mgmt - eyyy
Wait--What's all this about no offers for summer associates? Has something happened while I've been gettting real courtroom experience?
DOJ SECURE
As a Cooley law school 2L summering at a small firm, should I be worried?
Is it true what they say about Boston chicks?
WINSTON & STRONG
Topic? Anyone have info on Winston? Have they done layoffs?
The lawyer who wrote that e-mail is a moron. First, he doesn't know how to properly send an e-mail. Second his grammar and spelling is trash. No wonder W&S is in trouble.
The lawyer who wrote that e-mail is a moron. First, he doesn't know how to properly send an e-mail. Second his grammar and spelling is trash. No wonder W&S is in trouble.
LOL at the Chicken Littles running around the comments on most of these posts saying "the BigLaw model is dead" and other such garbage. It's definitely a horrible time to be a BigLaw associate, summer associate programs may see major and permanent changes in the near future, but the model as a whole is not going anywhere. Get back to worrying about swine flu or an asteroid hitting the planet or whatever else it is that you idiots normally do.
Yet another reason for law firms to adopt a Swedish model....
never heard of this firm
U ARE ALL BITING MY SHTICK
MORGAN LEWIS SECURE
20 and 25, I disagree. I agree with 20 that the V100 will continue to get hit and get smaller to adjust (minus a couple of the V10 firms), but the mid-law firms will hold steady, if not profit. Cleveland, Pittsburg, St. Louis, Kansas City, Nashville...those regional firms are now getting asked to bid on clients who previously would only consider V100 firms. Big law got too big for its britches, too fast. Their rates are too high. Prestige cannot protect them from the crushing wheel of economic rationality.
- T3 graduate at V100 firm
Hey Elie
You post that the Asian office memo was writtten by a W&S lawyer.
I kind of doubt that.
Any way to confirm?
"Get back to worrying about swine flu or an asteroid hitting the planet or whatever else it is that you idiots normally do."
We worry about the planet overheating and turning into Venus. Get it right.
I don't even think the summer recruiting model will even change much. It'll just skip a year or two.
I agree with 24, 26 and 28. Fucking up your first year associates' prospects cannot be made up with severance pay. Then again, with its' actions, Latham has proven itself to be a TTT firm that no top graduate would ever plump for - I know between government service and LaTTTham I'd choose the former notwithstanding the lower pay - so there's no problem of it repeating itself again!
So a baby seal walks into a bar, and the bartender says -- "what can I get you to drink?"
The baby seal replies -- "Anything...and I mean anything but a Canadian Club."
I'll be here all week, folks.
Well, the Class of 2011 are fucking toast aren't they? I don't care if you're from places like Yale, Harvard, Stanford - chances are, even if you're from there, unless you're one of the top few students, you're screwed.
53 - comedy. Yes.
"Well, the Class of 2011 are fucking toast aren't they? I don't care if you're from places like Yale, Harvard, Stanford - chances are, even if you're from there, unless you're one of the top few students, you're screwed."
No way to know exactly how much of the Class of 2011 will get through this mess. It might be a lot more people than we think. Or a lot less.
"Latham is well diversified"
*skull fucks a first years associate's career*
-Latham Management, xoxo
This would never happen at PHJW
37 - "wow... the guy who wrote that beijing memo really cannot right."
Funny!
So lawyers shifting from one firm to another within the same city is "good news" for the city? Isn't this no news as far as the city is concerned? Does this mean that taking change from my right pocket and putting it into my left pocket will make me richer?
I have a great 3 point shot. Should I add that to my resume so I can get an interview at Winston Beijing?
-rising 3 L with no prospects
WinsTTTon & STTTrawn
Seems that firms that picked up Heller people, like Orrick and Winston, didn't really do so well afterward.
Hey 37, love that you're calling people "incompetent idiots" when your opening sentence is
"wow... the guy who wrote that beijing memo really cannot right." Who's an idiot now?
And foreigners matter generally, but especially if they work in a FOREIGN OFFICE.
51- I didn't want to politicize it; I'm pretty sure the dipshits I'm addressing come from both ends of the spectrum. But I see your point. OMG SOME SUMMERS ARE GETTING NON-OFFERED EXPECT EVERY ONE OF THE V50 TO DISSOLVE WITHIN A WEEK OMG OMG OMG OMG. Cram it, people.
-45
51, disagree. While the big law firm model is not going to disappear, and attorneys will continue to bill based on time, the current economic crisis is not a blip to the status quo. It is a fundamental readjustment of the American economy. Things like summer programs will likely never be the same until law school enrollment drops by about 25%. (Not likely.) There are a lot of chicken littles on here, but there are also a lot of dinosaurs trying to ignore the colder temperatures. We will not go back to 1998 or 2006. Things will stabilize, but they will be different.
Going back on topic,
Winston has had targeted reductions in workforce - read small scale layoffs. Certainly not the layoffs of a firm like White & Case, but not unscathed either.
PPP was down about 5% last FY. This year is still a bit early to tell.
Winston instituted a salary freeze for associates, and cut bonuses to all but the heavy rainmakers by about 50% last year.
Charlotte seems to be a mixed bag. Work keeps coming in from the finance/banking partners that joined the firm, but I have no idea how long that spigut will run after the Wachovia take-over.
The Peking office is struggling.
if you are a 1L or 2L, see if you can jump into a JD/MBA program - will extend your graduation date until after this mess is over and you might get a job outside biglaw. or just switch to a MD degree - we need more doctors not attorneys.
"If anything those first years did not have a spouse, kids and a mortgage to support. Personally, I am truly sick of the whiny laid-off Latham d-bags populating this blog."
I know why you got laid off... and why you were working at CWT in the first place
#33 is the winner. Awesome.
Elie, this is totally some poor guy who forgot to log off his computer before heading home last night. No one would write like that for themselves.
Apparently 99% of the chicks in Boston have Explosive Bowel Syndrome. Sounds nice.
Winston's decision to hire former H&W attorneys is good news for Charlotte because otherwse those jobs were going to disappear. It means another national law firm is confident enough in the local market that it wants to expand its presence there.
If Toyota moves into Detroit and hires all the laid off UAW guys who used to work at a Chrysler plant, that would be incredible for Detroit.
"OMG SOME SUMMERS ARE GETTING NON-OFFERED EXPECT EVERY ONE OF THE V50 TO DISSOLVE WITHIN A WEEK OMG OMG OMG OMG. Cram it, people."
65,
Nope that ain't it at all, it's the economy stupid. There's massive pressure from inside corps that the GC's find ways to dramatically cut legal costs. The only reason that there was a $1000 billable hour in Manhattan and paying 160K for rookies was the bubble in corporate profits. What do you think, money grows on trees? Biglaw has relied on steadily booming earnings, and guess what? Those earnings ain't there no more.
Once again, I do think some of the top places like Williams & Connolly and Wachtel will do fine, as for the others, by 2010 we're going to see some real pain. Stupid lawyers who don't know jack about economics, business, or markets can keep going with a dead model, or adjust and survive.
The original email was from a fake gmail account. Total hoax. Shoddy journalism Elie. But you knew that, didn't you?
WS can hire all the laterals they want, they still won't be able to compete against the litigators in the hometown firms. As for Charlotte, everyone knows that Charlotte is the new Mahattan, just ask anyone in Charlotte. As someone who has spent some time there, I can say that Charlotte sucks big time. As for ass pounding, you better watch out, because ass pounding is frowned on in North Carolina.
72-please point me to where anything said that those attorney's were "former" at the time they were hired. Everything I've seen suggested that they were employed by H & W and were hired away from there by W & S. I think we can also ASSume that if they were hired away it was because they were profitable and bringing in business already. Please explain what has changed for the city?
Thanks.
The popcorn you're eating has been pissed in. Film at 11.
I just sharted.
-Boston Female Lawyer
Why did this thread become about Latham?
13 -
Sums up the predicament.
- Laid off DLA 1st Year
If the biglaw model is truly dying or dead already, then law firms that abandoned the law firm model early should be starting to prosper now relative to old line big law firms. Does anybody know how places like AXIOM are doing now?
81 - AXIOM (a) is not a law firm (b) is a re packaged dressed up contract agency.
But are they recognizing greater profits relative to biglaw firms, 82? That is the question, regardless how they treat their people. If the Biglaw model is dead, are AXIOM type shops what replace it?
81
But are they recognizing greater profits relative to biglaw firms, 82? That is the question, regardless how they treat their people. If the Biglaw model is dead, are AXIOM type shops what replace it?
81
83/84 - AXIOM type shops will be handling massive corporate and litigation document review intensive projects. They won't go to court, try cases, handle major deals, etc. BigLaw will compete with boutiques and smaller firms with lower rates and lower overhead. That's the game. AXIOM is not a player
Some firms were/are managed supremely well throughout this crisis, whereas others were/are not. If you're a Summer/regular associate at a firm in the former camp, you will come through this unscathed. (e.g. a V30 gave 100% offers to their Summers last week). If at a firm in the latter camp, well, good luck. The fact remains that biglaw isn't dead, as only those at poorly run firms will be hurting. Blanket statements are silly.
Firms will still be able to make plenty of money off of their 160K/year first years. The business model isn't shot unless the firm is truly hurting, and most firms AREN'T.
Things are good, except for a vocal minority.
86 is in complete denial. I am enjoying it!
86 here -
Legit salary "CUTS" won't hit the V30 unless the economy get worse than it is now or a firm is en route to being the next Heller.
Offer rates at many firms will be consistent with prior years. Some firms over-hired, but many did not. A number of Summer programs have already ended with 100% offer rates. Sure, many Summers won't be so lucky, but many will be, and that's my only point. Biglaw isn't what it used to be, but for the intelligent, lucky, connected and hardworking attorneys, the jobs will be there.
Can ATL ban futher commenting on the Morgan Lewis Cancels 2010 Summer Program (7/14) thread? The thread has been hijacked by sordid PHJW gossip. What does any of this have to do with the ML story?
AXIOM = Glorified temp agency for in-house counsel.
things we know about the latham troll:
1. latham troll has OCD and can't keep posting the same stupid shit in every ATL thread
2. is too much of a pussy to rent the rat and park in front of the lipstick building
3. debatable whether he actually even worked there or just got rejected and this is his passive aggressive way to get back at the firm
Someone needs to park an inflatable rat in front of the lipstick building asap.
That email has so many typos it could only have been written by Elie himself.
Milbank deferred all of its summers until 2012.
A buddy was just recounting some Winston work environment horror stories from years past... wow! How do you guys stay there!!!?
Reviewing who we sent there straight from school(aholes/bitch) I see the continuity...
94 - Confirm?
72 - Had the people Winston got from H&W been fired? Were they about to be fired?
89: I second that. If ATL cannot prevent legal secretaries from posting their bitter gossip, they should at least establish a seperate forum for secretarial comments. NY PHJW gossip does not belong under the ML story.
89/98 - Agreed. It's getting to be pretty pathetic actually. If you look at the timing of the messages it is either 2 people having their own conversation or it's a one person schizophrenia session. Given the bad grammar and common vernacular I say it is the latter.
Elie, Lat, anyone... save these people (this person) from themselves.
"2. is too much of a pussy to rent the rat and park in front of the lipstick building"
We don't know this. She might just be too broke to rent the rat.
89/98: Thanks for tipping me off! Gonna read that PHJW gossip now.
It's "separate," 98. This is one reason why lawyers still need secretaries: most of you can't spell for shit. We may be bitter, but at least we can spell better than the average third grader.
102 Maybe you can spell, but I still think secretaries should not be posting firm gossip to these stories. The PHJW comments in the Morgan Lewis thread are totally inappropriate.
38 - if only you were getting paid 160k+ too, then you wouldn't have to post bitter comments on ATL. Sowwy!
49 - In my example, I was talking about the so-called "top" firms in these smaller markets, which are being hit QUITE hard right now. Consider Squire in Cleveland. I meant that as far as biglaw goes, the non-NYC markets are just as bad (and in fact worse) off as NYC.
99- I think it's a few bitter ex and current PHJW secretaries. Elie, Lat, do SOMETHING!
LaRose,
Stop playing basketball.
Winston summers - this is not as bad as chicken litt - I mean ATL is making it seem.
As for the presentation, they gave the same presentation last year and the year before. It is filler for the all firm meeting and was probably the exact same slide show. It is not meant to have any special meaning.
As for the deferred start date, you know from this website that that's just market right now.
As for the indication that not all of you will get offers, that's not news. You already knew that. Yes, not all of you will get offers, but, in all likelihood, most will. So just chill out. It's too late to panic about this. Just finish strong, thank them for the big paycheck for the summer and leave on good terms. If you do this and you don't get an offer, I'm sure you can find a partner/sr associate to make a few phone calls to midlaw, judges, or even agencies they have worked for.
You will not be blackballed or stigmatized ITE. And, life is not over if you don't get a biglaw gig. Just remember to breathe - you are all accomplished and will do well in life.
108. I worked at W&S. I summered there. I left. But I will tell everyone you are lying. Because that video conference did not happen every year, it sucks to get no-offered and in the instance you are no-offered no attorney is going to be doing you any favors or make phone calls on your behalf. If anything, they might actually do the opposite so as to protect their own reputation (by defending a broken system that pays them well). Just stop that BS. It's tiring.
I love how MysTTTal didn't notice any of the errors from the Chinese "tipster"
I really don't think Winston is a bad place to work. I work at Winston and they have done almost everything they possibly can to prevent people from getting fired. The only folks who did get fired were either serious losers or 6th/7th/8th/9th years that had absolutely no chance of making partner. That's better than a lot of other firms can say.
108/109 - You're both half right, or half wrong, whichever.
The video was played last year at the all-firm event, along with some others, and some general repetition of the theme "you'll be fine, don't worry, but you're not all going to make it...probably...good luck!"
Where 108 is wrong and 109 is right is that partners and associates will not help you if you get no-offered. A friend of mine got the no-go and couldn't get a reference or a rec. Was straight denied.
So, I suppose they should be worried - but there's nothing that worry can get them. Maybe they shouldn't have jack-assed around the whole summer
111 that is an absolute lie and kind of hilarious. How many recruiting people are posting on here? Or is that PK? Jesus.
Is anything better than reading the unending posts from the fixated few otherwise known as the "laid off Latham first years"? Victims of genuine tragedy have nothing on these pathetic folks. They will never get over it and precious little pleases me more. Their collective inability to face reality is as astonishing as it is entertaining. But even better perhaps is their constant suggestion that one day Latham will somehow pay the price for such injustice. Priceless and hysterical...and also completely irrelevant to the ultimate fate of any of the so-called "victims". Golly, if only there had been some clue along the way for these now downtrodden souls...perhaps a neon sign noting that life involves all manner of uncontrollable risks. In any event, "victims" of Latham, your caterwauling is exquisite - please never stop; and whatever you do, by all means don't grow up.
144 is a MAN, works his ASS OFF, pops his collar with PRIDE, and SLAVES for hours for his MASTER at Latham
How can 115 know anything about 144?
Winston CLT has had stealth layoffs but seemed to keep people on its website for a long time. I wouldn't go there.
I sympathize for the W&S Summer Associates. I summered at a firm in 08 and got that same "You'll done fine no matter what firm you chose to go to" speech.
At first I didn't think anything of it because my "reviews" were all positive and all the Partners/Associates were giving me work and we were having a great time.
Until I went into the Partner's office for my End-Of-the-Summer Review and I got No-Offered. Of course he gave me the whole, "it's nothing personal, everybody thinks you are a great person, and this won't have any affect on your career." spiel, but it was all bullshit just to make a person feel better.
Contrary to what 108 said, you WILL NOT GET A RECOMMENDATION. Once a Firm No-Offers you they are through with you, you no longer exist in their eyes, and they SURE AS HELL won't write you a letter of recommendation or make a phone call on your behalf.
Why would they? Assume that they did call somebody to give a "recommendation" the first question the potential employer will ask is, "If he is so great, why didn't you hire him?"
Prepare your resumes right now for 3L OCI and start networking. You'll need it.
- Former Summer Associate
how many summers at winston this year?
I don't know if that work spigot ever got turned on in CLT. That group historically didn't have a lot of work, but certainly had a hefty payroll. I don't doubt that that decreased at Winston and meanwhile the economy tanked. My guess is that only the favorites are left. Probably out golfing as we type.
I don't know if that work spigot ever got turned on in CLT. That group historically didn't have a lot of work, but certainly had a hefty payroll. I doubt that that decreased at Winston and meanwhile the economy tanked. My guess is that only the favorites are left. Probably out golfing as we type.
all of this conversation over a piece of spam...
Comment removed by moderator.
Winston appears to be doubling down on its bet on a Charlotte office. How are the others (Cadwalader, Mayer, Katten, K&L Gates, Dechert, Hunton, King & Spalding, Kilpatrick, Alston etc) doing? My guess is that the office closings are done. Are the remaining structured finance lawyers busier?
There is no way in hell that Winston doesn't have an idea about what the offer rate will look like. What was off-putting about the whole thing was how obvious the lying was.
125. Exactly. That is why W&S is terrible. They know. They know how many offers they are getting and understand that it is a set number.
Summers? Here is a little piece of advice (which will work in Cali, at least, but I think will work in Illinois). If you do not get an offer, request a review of your personnel file. Make copies. When you're interviewing as a 3L, say you were no offered for economic reasons and offer to provide copies of your summer reviews.
126,
That's really good advice for any no-offered summer. Thanks.
125,
How does that help summers who won't know if they received an offer until after they OCI'ed? No offers til Labor Day.
No offered summers ate Winston are f****d - but they were f****d when they accepted their offers. But, given how W&S screws everyone - including partners - being no-offered should be no surprise, and might actually be a good thing in the long run.
Unforntunately, the classes of 2009, 2010 and 2011 will the the "lost generation."
Advise to you would be law students: take the offer of a teaching assistantship in a Masters program in any discipline rather than wasting three years and $150,000 in law school in expectation of a very doubtful career in Biglaw.
And for those who voted for Massa Obama - the new law firm - law school - law school paradigm is change for bettah believe in.
128; employers are obligated to allow you to review your personnel file for up to one year after employment. If you're dinged, draft a letter demanding a chance to review your file either in person or via mail. Have you ever worked before? This works in every single industry.
129 - Jesus...I mean, wow. How have your comments not been removed yet? Get on it ATL
129 - Winston doesn't offer jobs to racists.
Winston & Strawn Chicago is in the process of possibly merging with another firm. That's why they are downsizing attorneys and staff and not hiring as many summers as in previous years. They forced secretaries over 55 to retire and terminated all of those staff members 36 and under in order to save money on their caps and bring in staff from the other merger firm. They are laying off associates and mid-level attorneys by the end of August. They are looking at the attorneys with the least billables and heard that managing partners are offering more pro-bono hours to associates during their downtimes so they don't have time for billables and can use that as a reason to terminate them.
Winston & Strawn has never been warm and friendly, it is from the outside hearing about it from a family member a creepy place to have to hang your shingle.
I feel sorry for those of you who have suffered at their hands, pick yourselves up and dust yourselves off. Going after a MBA would be an option, but universities a few years ago embraced - "you need experience in the real world" before you apply to start the MBA program.
If you can write; think of Marketing, Journalism and the Medical field. The legal field once again has too many attorneys, and not enough work to go around. Take an aptitude test or some kind of assessment, and jump into another field.
plain and simply the firm is full of jerk for managers who care nothing about there support staff and would rather walk all over them, belittle them, and take credit for the work they have done, then to say thanks or keep them employed!!!!!!! I recently got laid off from W&S but you know what... it was the best thing that could have happened to me because I am so much happier now that I do not have to deal with those uptight assholes!!!!!!