University of Miami Law School Defers 1Ls: This is Not A Joke
The University of Miami Law School of Law has decided to give their admitted students a preview of what it’s really like to be a lawyer in today’s market. Dean Patricia White sent around this letter to the school’s admitted students:
Every year our Admissions Office uses our past experience with acceptance rates to decide how many students to admit. In these economically troubled times past experience has turned out to be a poor guide. An unprecedented percentage of applicants admitted to the University of Miami Law School have accepted our offer. This will give us a larger than optimal first-year class. Accordingly we are offering an incentive to defer admission until Fall 2010. If you wish to take advantage of this offer you must notify us by e-mail [Redacted] or facsimile [Redacted] by July 10, 2009.
Don’t get too down about the recession. We still have enough time to build an immense fallout shelter in the soft limestone cliffs of Missouri. Of course, they’ll have to be some sort of lottery.
After the jump, the UM Law School dean is pretty honest about what is going on with its new admits.
I’ve often wondered what the class of 2012 is thinking. Apparently, that gives me something in common with Dean White:
While I would like to believe that this year’s elevated acceptance rate reflects the great sense of excitement about the Law School and its future that led me to become its new Dean, I fear that some of it may be related to the shortage of jobs in the current economy. Perhaps many of you are looking to law school as a safe harbor in which you can wait out the current economic storm.If this describes your motivation for going to law school I urge you to think hard about your plans and to consider deferring enrollment. Law school requires an enormous investment of work, energy, time, and money. It is very demanding intellectually and emotionally. Beyond this, in these uncertain and challenging times the nature of the legal profession is in great flux. It is very difficult to predict what the employment landscape for young lawyers will be in May 2012 and thereafter.
Listen to this woman. Look at what you are putting into law school: “investment,” “time,” “money.” Look at what you are getting out of it: “uncertain,” “challenging,” “flux.” Going to law school is not a golden ticket to the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory of secure employment.
The opportunity to change your mind about going to law school at all could be enough of an incentive for 2012 admitted students. But Miami Law is offering a few things to encourage rising 1Ls to defer for a year:
* Guaranteed $5,000 Public Interest Deferral Scholarship when completing 120 hours of public service. This scholarship would be in addition to any other scholarship award you may receive (not to exceed the cost of tuition).* Increase your likelihood of selection for a $75,000 Miami Scholars Scholarship award ($25,000 each year for 3 years). This is a scholarship designed to encourage and reward public service.
* If qualified, be among the first group considered for all 2010 scholarships (see offer details).
* Apply your entire $300 seat deposit to Fall 2010, rather than receiving only a partial refund and forfeiting the balance.
What, you were expecting $80,000?
Is this our first official indication that the class of 2012 is just as screwed as the classes of 2009, 2010, and 2011? How many nervous 1Ls will be showing up on law school campuses next year?
Read the full memo below.
UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI LAW SCHOOL — MEMO — DEFERRAL OPTIONS
Every year our Admissions Office uses our past experience with acceptance rates to decide how many students to admit. In these economically troubled times past experience has turned out to be a poor guide. An unprecedented percentage of applicants admitted to the University of Miami Law School have accepted our offer. This will give us a larger than optimal first-year class. Accordingly we are offering an incentive to defer admission until Fall 2010. If you wish to take advantage of this offer you must notify us by e-mail [Redacted] or facsimile [Redacted] by July 10, 2009.
While I would like to believe that this year’s elevated acceptance rate reflects the great sense of excitement about the Law School and its future that led me to become its new Dean, I fear that some of it may be related to the shortage of jobs in the current economy. Perhaps many of you are looking to law school as a safe harbor in which you can wait out the current economic storm.
If this describes your motivation for going to law school I urge you to think hard about your plans and to consider deferring enrollment. Law school requires an enormous investment of work, energy, time, and money. It is very demanding intellectually and emotionally. Beyond this, in these uncertain and challenging times the nature of the legal profession is in great flux. It is very difficult to predict what the employment landscape for young lawyers will be in May 2012 and thereafter.
If you are choosing to join us this Fall because you are strongly committed to the study of law we welcome you with open arms and promise to do our best to provide you with an exceptional and challenging educational experience. But if you are approaching law school with ambivalence or the thought that it will be a safe haven, perhaps you should take a year to decide whether it is the best choice for you.
To encourage this we are offering incentives to admitted students to defer admission until Fall 2010. The basic idea is that we will give you a $5000 Public Interest Deferral Scholarship for the 2010-11 academic year if you defer starting law school until August 2010. There is one additional condition: performing and documenting 120 hours of public service by June 1, 2010. This requirement reflects the commitment to public service we try to instill in all our students.
The following are the benefits of taking advantage of this unique offer and deferring your enrollment to Fall 2010:
* Guaranteed $5,000 Public Interest Deferral Scholarship when completing 120 hours of public service. This scholarship would be in addition to any other scholarship award you may receive (not to exceed the cost of tuition).
* Increase your likelihood of selection for a $75,000 Miami Scholars Scholarship award ($25,000 each year for 3 years). This is a scholarship designed to encourage and reward public service.
* If qualified, be among the first group considered for all 2010 scholarships (see offer details).
* Apply your entire $300 seat deposit to Fall 2010, rather than receiving only a partial refund and forfeiting the balance.
For further important details about this offer, click here.
If you would like to defer your admission to Fall 2010, please contact us by e-mail or facsimile [Redacted] by July 10th. If you have questions, please contact the Office of Admissions [Redacted].
I am delighted that the University of Miami is your law school of choice. I am very excited about its future and hope to welcome you either this August or next.
Warm regards,
Trish White
Dean Designate
Public Interest Deferral Scholarship - Offer Details [University of Miami Law School]
Earlier: Cravath Offers Voluntary Deferral to Class of 2009 — and Delays Class of 2010 a Full Year
(139) Comments
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This is not news. Law schools do this all the time. It happened to me in 2003.
First to say first!
This would never happen at SMU, the Yale of Nebraska.
1Ls should defer, retake LSAT get into a T20 and profit.
Miami is a school where only 10% will get jobs above 100 and maybe another 15% will get jobs above 50....they shouldnt go anyway....
Really sums up the state of the law - a TTT like University of Miami is getting oversubscribed! And then law students complain about their debt load. Of course the vast majority (like 95%) aren't going to get anything resembling high-paying jobs out of UMiami. Unreal how stupid so many people can be.
i can see this dumbass shit happening in CA next
Semper five.
1 - Same here, I took the December LSAT and got this exact same offer from a top 20. I bet even your beloved Harvard does this Elie.
Well, I appreciate the honesty.
OMFG
1) did the law school not see the possibility of this situation?
2) why have no other law schools needed to take this course of action? Oh wait, those law schools aren't retarded and took preventive measures by letting in fewer people knowing that their accept-per-admit ratio would skyrocket in a recession.
TTT
This is not news.
I just got a B.A. in Anthropology and I can't find a job because of the economy. I was thinking my best bet would be to go to a private, Tier 2 law school and wait things out for a few years. I hear you can do pretty much anything with a law degree, and I plan to work really hard and graduate in the top 10%. Thoughts?
"Of course, they'll have to be some sort of lottery."
Care to give this another swing, Elie?
(HINT: "there will" cannot become "they'll.")
You have 5 minutes. Good luck.
5 is right on. We need to cull the number of law schools by at least 50% to protect would-be law students from themselves.
@12 - Sounds like a great plan. If there's one thing I've learned after attending a year of law school, you can definitly plan for your class rank and control that outcome by hard work.
Has the legal profession really come to this? Time to open up another law school in Miami. It seems that demand has outstripped supply--hard to believe given the number of TTT law schools that are out there.
12 (if you're not a troll), you can put lipstick on a pig...
There is a reason why you only got into a Tier 2 school.
I suspect they are right about people just using law school as a way to wait out the economic downturn, and Miami isn't the only school in that boat. I just got an email from my undergraduate college, which said that it's incoming class is the largest class in its history, and the number they quoted is about a 50% increase from recent years. I don't know where they're going to house all those freshmen.
Miami Law school is so bunk. How would you not plan for this in a recession?
18: My guess is they'll put them in upperclass housing and force the upperclassmen to deal. That's the usual method.
What kind of TTT private university holds a beauty pageant? University of Miami! How can we take them seriously?
I feel like the sky is falling. This is scarier than the law firm deferrals.
Good point, 22. Why not just hire a few laid-off Biglaw associates as "adjunct professors" and take everyone's money? I guess it's pretty serious.
12 has to be flame
12 - There is a 90% chance that you will not finish in the top 10%
25 is gay. Just so you all know.
Suffolk UniversiTTTTy, takes ever applicanTTTT who accepTTTTed.
The ship be sinking...
This is now a blog for undergrads. What happened? MysTTTal.
12. Don't listen to all the haters. Your chances of finishing in the top 10% depend entirely on your own talents and work ethic.
If you take self-inventory and can honestly conclude that you are an objectively good writer (i.e. writing intensive classes were among your better grades) and you are willing to work your tail off then you have a realistic shot of finishing near the top of your class.
Most of the whiners who suggest that class rankings are somehow random are people who didn't work hard enough in law school.
Good Luck!
If it's not a joke, then why the choice of picture? Ever consider that your story and pictures should be in agreement to send supporting messages?
UMiami Law's class sizes have steadily increased over the years (despite platitudes that the admin was aware of the problem and working to decrease class size). From their perspective, more students = more $. Hence, either: 1) the new dean is trying help the school's academics and students by actually lowering class size, or 2) the school finally ran out of classroom size.
12, ignore 30. You can work your ass off and still not make top 10%. Or top 20%. Or top 30%. It's in large part due to work and it's equally a crapshoot.
12 definitely should have majored in something real.
Law school isn't a place to hide out for 3 years. Believe it or not, it's meant to train you to be a lawyer.
12 - All you have to do to graduate in the top 10% is be a gunner in class, especially in Con Law. Be as outspoken as possible, and don't be afraid to interrupt other people in your section.
And definitely go to a school like U of Miami. They all get great high paying jobs after graduation (and tons of chicks), top 10% or not.
This is a smart idea. There are so many people in school and in the profession who only ended up here because they didn't know what they wanted to do with their lives and were bad at science.
We wonder why people get disillusioned with BigLaw or the legal profession in general, it's because of a high DB factor.
If you don't know what you want to do with your life, go teach English somewhere overseas or volunteer in the inner city. Sh*t go to Alaska and work on the oil rigs, plant trees.
But don't take seats in law school if you don't KNOW that you want to be a lawyer.
Law school tuition should be paid post graduation in the form of a flat rate percentage of income for the next 30 years of a graduate’s life. This system will starve the TTTs churning out JDs destined for employment at McDonalds.
UCLA did this with the class of 2008. Offered people 10 grand to wait a year.
30- I have a friend in top 10 (top 4%) at her Tier 2 (yeah yeah TTT) law school, and she said herself it's dumb luck that she would up ranked so high.
Yes, she works her ass off... and yes I've seen her funnel straight gin on a Tuesday night. Seems to be a disconnect here... dumb luck?
If the dean only knew that the 1L's be getting mutted by the whole damn crew.
Schools have offered deferments for years. I had a friend my first year of law school who had taken a deferment the previous year because the school had too many acceptances. Good on U of M for being realistic with students about the economy and the employment picture after law school, but what they're doing isn't new.
What does this tell Miami's current law students? We suck and you won't be able to get a job coming out of here. Our mistake of letting in too many applicants is indicative of our future market analysis. We're attempting to scare away our admitted class by making determinations as to the legal economy in 2012, which we obviously have a handle on considering our analysis of the current market in 2009.
30,
You are wrong. Class rank is pure luck.
Signed,
Past Valedictorian at T50
Shit sandwich.
how many people who use the term TTT to denigrate other law schools are actually laid-off associates whose T-20 jd wasn't the golden Wonka ticket mentioned above?
future 1Ls at Miami or similar schools, work hard through law school and after; you will outlast the T-20's who view their credentials more like a guarantee than a tool.
sincerely,
a young lawyer enjoying the view over biscayne bay & making more money than any unemployed lawyer
I'm surprised they don't erect some portable buildings and have 600+ class.
At least Dean White is being more honest than most Law School faculty and admin. Other schools would rather accept as many students as they can, take the money and not give a crap about whether people can get jobs later or not.
As one Law Prof. told me a couple of years ago "I'm here to research my own stuff, I don't really care about who gets a job."
I always wondered what the Miami Admissions Office looked like. Thanks for the inside photo Elie.
non-story, happens all the time.
19 said "bunk"
Comment removed by moderator.
Wait, if they defer you, they're going to credit the deposit money you've already paid (+0% interest, of course!) to next year, rather than pocketing some or all of it (presumably on the grounds that they'd really like to take more of your money)?
How generous.
I am soooooooo horny!!!!
Awesome!!
Dean White just saved you $180k in student loans.
Avoid the debt and RUN !!!!
Awesome!!
Dean White just saved you $180k in student loans.
Avoid the debt and RUN !!!!
but, but.. I want a JD so I can go to a NY law firm and make 160K plus bonus... i mean I read on the internet that all attorneys make that and UM Law says 95% of its students are employed 3 months after graduation........
HAHAHAHA
LOL @ 39.
Whats your name?
G-Reg
What you do?
Get Head
How you do it?
Drop my pants and let them see my third leg
Who does this bitch think she is?
She's basically questioning the decisionmaking integrity of students who have already been accepted by her own Office of Admissions.
57--She's exposing TTT schools for the ponzi schemes they really are.
God I love this profession!
Who does this bitch think she is?
She's basically questioning the decisionmaking integrity of students who have already been accepted by her own Office of Admissions.
She might have done you pre-1Ls a big favor. You should all at least consider walking away. About 85-90% of UM law grads start out making less than 100k/year. This obviously means that a large part of each class will be saddled with more than 150k in debt, but will have a hard time scoring well-paying jobs. Think about that risk before signing on.
From within the admissions office, I can tell you where the problem is. At UM several different groups of admission committee members splinter off into groups and make decisions on an ongoing basis. They don't communicate with each other or really have a good idea of how many people the other sub-committees are admitting.
Now, with Dean White's arrival (HUGE improvement over the incompetent and lazy Dean Lynch), she's having to "solve" the problem that the past incompetent administration has left her.
Good for her. We have high expectations.
12 is a flame, but for those similarly situated-- What follows will be the best advice you will ever receive:
Instead of wasting time, money and energy on another worthless liberal arts (JD) degree, do the following:
Spend the next 2 years studying Calculus, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra and Chinese. (do not take the summer off). Force yourself to learn the math--it is not easy for liberal arts majors, but is doable if one puts in the effort.
Also, during this time period, take courses from one of the following: Engineering, Chemistry or Biology. Again--not easy, but better than starving.
In this way, you can cobble together a second undergrad degree using courses from your liberal arts degree.
Then, spend year 3 getting a non-thesis Masters degree in your chosen course of study. (There are lots of these programs at second tier state schools).
At the end of this, you will be able to get a nice 9-5 job starting at about $100,000/yr. If you still want to go to law school, do it at night. In-house nirvana awaits.
18, what school did you go to? Why don't they teach possessives?
i knew a kid at UM law...he was super gay.
I chose UM so I could study Real Property while blowing lines off fake tits.
#65....Ummm and your point is....?
66 - Funny because its true.
UMiami: The Party Law School
Most of the above comments on this blog are absolutely absurd. It is laughable. If the people who have commented thus far are lawyers or even law students, this profession has a major problem on its hands. Every law school around the country from Yale on down is experiencing the same challenges given the current state of the economy. It affects different schools to different degrees. What UM is doing is nothing new and I applaud the new Dean for being honest with incoming law students.
Five stars to Miami for telling the truth. Many other law schools outside the top 10 would gladly sweep in the tuition dollars without a thought as to the consequences for the surplus students.
12--it is good to see someone that still has hope. Of course, if you are lucky enough to get a job in a law firm, practicing law for a couple of years will strip all of that away from you and dig a bottomless pit of darkness into your soul, but that is the future. At least the sun is shining for you now.
69 = guest appearance by Dean White
Syracuse did this in 2006 and offered a light scholarship. It happens.
What we need are MORE law schools to take these poor students that won't be able to attend UM. Really, totally unfair on the part of the ABA. We need at least 1 law school per every 5 people.
dont go to law school, the world will end the same year you graduate, what a waste of time
I'm a reasonably intelligent guy (but certainly not the smartest in my class) who attends a T14. I came dead-set on graduating in the top 10%. I made top 15% and worked very hard to get it. I used all the strategies that usually get you to the top 10% (e.g. practiced old exams, read exam-help books, attended class, etc.) I think that a person who tries hard enough can pretty much gurantee themself the top 1/3. But beyond that, I think it's a bit of a crapshoot. Sorry to say.
Correction, I used all that strategies that people in the top 10% usually use, NOT strategies that will usually get you in the top 10%.
THIS IS ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
63--do you know anything about science? As someone who studied science at a top 10 university and is married to a scientist, I can assure you that science is anyting but lucrative. In fact, the more degrees you pile on, the less income you can expect. You are much better off going to a tier 3 law school than getting a scientific undergrad/masters/Ph.D. at a top university. The entry level legal jobs (even at $40K) are equivalent to what entry-level science grads make (with or without advanced degrees). Your advice to would-be law students is a waste of time.
63--do you know anything about science? As someone who studied science at a top 10 university and is married to a scientist, I can assure you that science is anyting but lucrative. In fact, the more degrees you pile on, the less income you can expect. You are much better off going to a tier 3 law school than getting a scientific undergrad/masters/Ph.D. at a top university. The entry level legal jobs (even at $40K) are equivalent to what entry-level science grads make (with or without advanced degrees). Your advice to would-be law students is a waste of time.
I'll be a 1L at Fordham and I've noticed a few things about people applying with me:
Way more people this year than even last year took the LSAT and applied to 15+ schools
Only two of my friends from undergrad have "real" jobs
Many people I know are turning down scholarships from lower ranked schools for the best school they get into (and based on market they hope to work in)
In my own experience, I'm f*ing terrified that if things don't get any better my decision will turn out to be horrible. Either way, I realize I probably wouldn't find a job in this economy would a social science degree and a couple internships. Bottom line, fuck it see what happens.
The Mayans say the world is ending in 2012 so hopefully student loan debt doesn't follow you into post-apocalypse
I am a jobless rising 3L at UMich and I want to kill myself.
UM really sucks unless you plan to work in Miami. School carries 0 weight outside South Florida,
82, if you do it, put it on Youtube please.
As others have mentioned, this is a non-story. I was offered and accepted a deferral to UT in 2002 for the same reason. I wasn't entirely convinced that law school was the way to go then, and there are plenty of Miami folks thinking the same way now.
LS grades are not a crapshoot, people. Regardless of how hard you work, some of your classmates (ten? one-third? one-half?) will be more intelligent than you are. They will not need to put in the hours or efforts that you need to get the same, or better, grades.
The key to succeeding in LS is having a realistic assessment of your own intelligence and catering your efforts to your level of ability.
13, you blow. get a life
Notre Dame did this exact thing like two years ago. I believe they offered students who took the deferral their first year of tuition free.
81 - for your sake I hope you have significant scholarships lined up and are not volunteering to go well over 100K in debt for law school, and that too Fordham.
79/80 --Time to wake up:
It's 2009, not 1996.
BTW, BSEE, MS Physics, JD, making good dough with time enough to respond to your idiotic post! Cheers.
79/80, 89 here. Never mind. You're right. There are about 1,600,000 lawyers in the US of which 1 percent (16,000) are patent lawyers.
By all means, an anthropology degree + second tier JD + $160,000 debt = Success!
85 hit it on the mark....best advice thus far...
Be wary of Dean White's promises! Anyone that went to ASU while she was Dean surely has their own story about her. This is mine.
Dean White recruited me to help start a sports and entertainment law program. I decided to forego better ranked schools and attend ASU for what I thought would be a great opportunity to further my career in these industries.
I arrived in the fall to Dean White's absence (guess she forgot to mention she would be on sabbatical for a semester), and when she could find time in her schedule to meet with me (two months into second semester), she informed me that she decided there would be no such program (um, okaaay), but that she would introduce me to her contacts (never met one) and help me to find a summer job doing something legal and sports related. As you may guess, that didn't happen, either.
Hurricane White is apparently kicking things off with a bang in Miami. Increasing your likelihood of a $75k scholarship sounds like a real airtight incentive to me...
Be wary of Dean White's promises! Anyone that went to ASU while she was Dean surely has their own story about her. This is mine.
Dean White recruited me to help start a sports and entertainment law program. I decided to forego better ranked schools and attend ASU for what I thought would be a great opportunity to further my career in these industries.
I arrived in the fall to Dean White's absence (guess she forgot to mention she would be on sabbatical for a semester), and when she could find time in her schedule to meet with me (two months into second semester), she informed me that she decided there would be no such program (um, okaaay), but that she would introduce me to her contacts (never met one) and help me to find a summer job doing something legal and sports related. As you may guess, that didn't happen, either.
Hurricane White is apparently kicking things off with a bang in Miami. Increasing your likelihood of a $75k scholarship sounds like a real airtight incentive to me...
Be wary of Dean White's promises! Anyone that went to ASU while she was Dean surely has their own story about her. This is mine.
Dean White recruited me to help start a sports and entertainment law program. I decided to forego better ranked schools and attend ASU for what I thought would be a great opportunity to further my career in these industries.
I arrived in the fall to Dean White's absence (guess she forgot to mention she would be on sabbatical for a semester), and when she could find time in her schedule to meet with me (two months into second semester), she informed me that she decided there would be no such program (um, okaaay), but that she would introduce me to her contacts (never met one) and help me to find a summer job doing something legal and sports related. As you may guess, that didn't happen, either.
Hurricane White is apparently kicking things off with a bang in Miami. Increasing your likelihood of a $75k scholarship sounds like a real airtight incentive to me...
63- That is just an awful post- please don't make posts like that- some people may take you seriously.
For future reference, when you jump into the middle of a problem which you don't understand, diagnose it in about 20 seconds, and fire out suggestions that you know nothing about, the end result is bad advice.
79/80/95 said:
"You are much better off going to a tier 3 law school than getting a scientific undergrad/masters/Ph.D. at a top university."
If the goal is to be $160,000 in debt with no job prospects upon graduation, you are spot on.
Dolt.
90 clearly must be a patent attorney because he lacks basic reading comprehension.
79/80's post was in re: 63's post which said drop out of law school all together and do science NOT doing the patent IP route.
To which I agree. There is no money in science or math; you do it because you like it. Just saying its dumb to get any grad degree unless you realize what you are getting into. once you have some college, you already have a leg up; dont risk going 100k more in debt (2 years of grad school) because you might get a 10k raise.
Just curious, once Miami is down to its desired class size, will it still be so concerned withe making sure its matriculants are there for the right reasons?
92-94: I've never heard of ASU, but that's beside the point. I would never, ever attend a law school based on someone's word. And I'm sure you've learned a lesson here. If you're going to make such a major life decision (there probably aren't too many more decisions in one's life that are greater than which law school you'll attend) based on someone's word, you should get something definitive, ideally in writing, or backed with something of substance instead of just one person saying, "Hey, yeah, we'd like to start an entertainment law program, and we want you to help with that." Especially, as seems your case, when you were obviously being recurited to boost your TTT's numbers.
the U
U idiots
I agree with 79/80/95/97. Avoid all science, engineering and math courses--On your resume, highlight those courses, e.g., "Transgender Roles in 20th Century Film". That's what employers/clients value.
I agree with 79/80/95/97. Avoid all science, engineering and math courses--On your resume, highlight those courses, e.g., "Transgender Roles in 20th Century Film". That's what employers/clients value.
I agree with 79/80/95/97. Avoid all science, engineering and math courses--On your resume, highlight those courses, e.g., "Transgender Roles in 20th Century Film". That's what employers/clients value.
92-94:
Everyone knows that a "sports & entertainment law program" is a TTT scam. It works, though, because there are always a few jocky undergrads who are just sure they have what it takes to be a sports agent. Who needs a respectable law degree followed by years at a top agency or Biglaw L & E practice, when you hung out with a few football players and "really know how to hustle"? After all, it worked for Drew Rosenhaus!
They should have just pulled a UNC and said that the acceptance letters went out by accident.
(That was UNC, right?)
12 = best post ever
1 and 9 don't know what they are talking about. It isn't normal for a school to ask all of its incoming students to defer a year.
I am now a UM 3L, and I can say it was a huge mistake to come here in the first place. I won't lie, I came here because of the scholarship they offered me, which was more than the T30-40 schools I got in to.
By the end of 1L year, i had decided to transfer, but I was not able to because of the grading policy at this school. The policy is an example of why this school is and will always be a TTT: They give professors 5 weeks from the date of the exam to turn in grades. First off, 5 weeks is ludicrously long to being with. But then, they give extensions to any professor who asks for one, for any reason or no reason at all. In the end, this meant that my class did not get our grades for Property until July 20th!. That's not a misprint. July 20th. For an exam taken at the end of April. Transfer application deadlines had passed by then. Needless to say, T20 schools weren't about to entertain a late/incomplete transfer application when there were plenty of other, complete applications to go through.
This is just one illustration of the ineptitude at this school. I just wish I had known about ATL before law school, it could have saved me from committing to a place like this.
Its a press release about being overenrolled, but there are no numbers! Are they really overenrolled, or are they doing this simply to try to boost their numbers? Odds are, the kids with scholarships aren't going to be the ones who defer, since they aren't being told their scholarships are guaranteed. Its the kids who didn't get a scholarship to begin with who would be more likely to consider this option. Plus, then next year, they have that many fewer seats to fill so they can be more selective.
Miami may be telling the truth, but how bad is it? And don't incoming admitted students deserve to know how big their classes might be?
107: Again, it just blows my mind that people make major life decisions without studying that school inside and out. It doesn't take ATL to do that. If you're going to drop easily $120K on tuition alone, wouldn't it be worth making a couple of phone calls to the school's registrar and ask, "hey, when do you guys usually release spring semester grades?" Or, better yet, talk to alumni from your undergrad who are attending your school of choice. They can usually answer all your questions and give very frank assessments, especially because they usually have little to gain for your entering the school. I don't know, maybe I'm just an odd ball.
The education bubble is about to burst. Newly minted anthropologists and lawyers, and many of those whose busines plan was to churn out ever increasing numbers of over-educated unemployables, are in for a rude awakening.
As a proud graduate of the University of Miami School of Law, I want to thank Elie for his courage in putting himself out there on the line with this post --
Sure, it would have been nice if someone could have made a couple of phone calls to see why on earth this was happening, but maybe the interns are busy --
Sure the school has a very limited physical plant, (the admin office in the photo is larger than most of the classrooms.) Sure it is fifty years old and rotting.
But it is the school of choice for Long Island residents seeking solace in South Beach, opportunities to interact with doctors and lawyers, and a large vibrant Latino community that wishes to stay in south florida.
Seems like they should have expanded instead, and hired a few harvard grads to teach first years. I hear Cravath will even offer to pay their salaries while they teach . . .
A wise Latina with the same grades and LSAT score could go to a T1 school instead of this TTT. That's what makes wise Latinas so wise.
109: isn't it easy to criticize? Aren't you asking for a prospective student to see every possible contingency at every school they applied to?
Who do you know who called the schools to which they applied and asked how long it takes to get grades? And, even if he/she had called the school, do you think the school would have acknowledged that they apparently let professors turn in grades in the middle of the summer?
The Latham of law schools. Unable to recognize that acceptances of offers would be up significantly in this community and adjust accordingly.
To All the Haterz:
I am a UM aluminum. UM is a gud skool. You shud all go ther!
RIP Mikul Jaxon
As a former UM LRW professor (my employment terminated on the basis of quarrel with a student), I must admit that the quality of writing evidenced by #115 is about as good as it gets...
Dean White is probably one of the worst teachers I have ever encountered in higher education, and that's saying a lot since some of the teachers here at GULC are..........pretty bad.
Everyone talking down about science is a bunch of morons. I just finished my MS in Microbiology. Paid the university $1000 in mandatory fees, and was paid $15,000 for teaching... in case your liberal arts degrees don't help you, that is a $14,000/yr net profit... AKA, no debt from my MS degree.
Now, with my MS, I can go and make $50-65k/yr depending on market (Boston versus NC Research Triangle anyone?). OR I can attend law school and get into patent law, with the chance to make FAR more.
Even if no patent law work is available, I can go back to industrial research for at least $50,000/yr... which is still more than anyone in the DA office.
I can't believe these posts. Does anyone have a thoughtful bone in their body, or do you all just like to spew arrogant, bitter, reactionary blather? UM Law has nothing to be ashamed of with its memo, but some of you do.
Her email is a good start, but it is going to take a lot more honest "tough love" to convince most of these incoming 1Ls what a mistake they are making.
Why doesn't she release actual employment figures from this past year's class, including those unemployed at graduation, and salary figures from both private and public sector COMBINED (and what percent of the class chose each). Perhaps they will then see law school is not an easy ticket to the high life during a recession.
113: 109 here. My original post already addressed part of your argument regarding the school not wanting to admit certain information. That's why I mentioned calling alumni at the prospective school and asking the question. If you joined a school and seriously considered transferring from the start, or if it was just a possibility you're casually considering, yes, I would have asked people whether grades come out early enough to apply to the next school, and, yes, I know people who have asked those questions. Again, when you're dropping six figures for higher education, you do your due diligence.
101/102/103--I sense the sarcasm, but, in reality, since BarackOboingo will be everyone's employer soon, it's the sad truth.
121: If the person didn't consider transferring until after 1L year began, then that person is still screwed.
Oh if we could all be blessed with the gift of the god-like foresight that was bestowed to you.
121: Are you seriously suggesting that students should not be able to rely on a school to get grades out in less than 12 weeks? That's the only justification possible for suggesting that someone inquire about when the grades come out for transfer purposes.
I can't imagine someone actually picking up the phone and calling a school to ask "Gee, I was wondering what your spring grading policy is?" There's just no reason people shouldn't be able to rely on their school to get grades out in less than 3 months.
121: Are you seriously suggesting that students should not be able to rely on a school to get grades out in less than 12 weeks? That's the only justification possible for suggesting that someone inquire about when the grades come out for transfer purposes.
I can't imagine someone actually picking up the phone and calling a school to ask "Gee, I was wondering what your spring grading policy is?" There's just no reason people shouldn't be able to rely on their school to get grades out in less than 3 months.
121 is right on. As conceived and drafted, Section 90 of the Second Restatement of Contracts is based primarily on principles of reliance. It rests on the proposition that a person who has led another to rely on a promise ought to compensate the other for any harm suffered in reliance.
I declare this line of comments officially closed. Booyah.
121 is right on. As conceived and drafted, Section 90 of the Second Restatement of Contracts is based primarily on principles of reliance. It rests on the proposition that a person who has led another to rely on a promise ought to compensate the other for any harm suffered in reliance.
I declare this line of comments officially closed. Booyah.
Re: grading at UM. A friend of mine who just finished up there told me that a couple of weeks ago the school had to apply for special exceptions to three or four state bars to allow the dean to submit graduation certifications late--this all because the profs down there couldnt get their s*** together in order to submit grades within a reasonable time. This kid's been telling me for two years how lazy those profs are. I'm a 2L at another Tier 2, but at least the faculty here shows some interest in our future job prospects.
Holy crap! Did she say there is uncertainty in 2012? The year that the Mayans predicted that Earth will experience a MAJOR catastrophe, the same year that the new John Cusack movie is titled? Which also foresees certain doom? She may be on to something . . .
Anyone who pays for UM Law is not what we call financially savvy.
92-94:
Everyone knows that a "sports & entertainment law program" is a TTT scam. It works, though, because there are always a few jocky undergrads who are just sure they have what it takes to be a sports agent. Who needs a respectable law degree followed by years at a top agency or Biglaw L & E practice, when you hung out with a few football players and "really know how to hustle"? After all, it worked for Drew Rosenhaus!
Drew Rosenhaus went to UM undergrad, Duke for law school, so probably not your best example.
To the LRW Professor - you sound bitter, get over it.
Bottom line, if you want to work in Miami, go to UM. If not, do not go to UM. In that market they have a VERY strong alumni network.
i, for one, went to miami law for the same 4 reasons everyone else does. rich chicks, southbeach, coke, rich chicks.
look at all of these Miami bashing comments...look in the mirror, you top 20-ers are going into 200K in debt for what??? A CHANCE TO WORK AS A LITTLE BITCH FOR SOMEONE ELSE....not every law student wants to get a "job"...some of us can think outside of the box as entrepreneurs....have fun filing papers for 8 years
Don't let them psyche you out, 12 - there is NO way to predict what your rank will be.
Working "really hard" is the bare minimum requirement for hitting the curve; the top 10% is a long shot. Consider - you got into and are attending the school you did and are because, on paper, you are roughly as intelligent as the other applicants; the dumb ones were turned away, the smart ones went to a higher ranked school (or, worse for you, stayed and took scholarships). What makes you think that all of the rest of these, ostensibly your intellectual peers, haven't ALSO figured out that they need to "work really hard"?
If you don't actually want to go to law school, don't.
12, I got news for you... its not the economy that is to blame for you not having a job.
120: Spot-on. I wonder why the ABA or NALP doesn't release the raw employment data and let anyone crunch the numbers themselves? I smell a vast legal education conspiracy.
133: Also right on.
I am a UM Law 3L. What does this mean? Not a damn thing. You think going to any law school guarantees you a job? Maybe Harvard top 5%. The economy sucks. Being a lawyer is a profession. Going to law school gives you a shot to get into the profession. How hard you work, what grades you get are what is relevant. I partied hard and studied intermittently. What matters is what I've learned. See Infra. So let's look IRAC the following hypo:
Agnastacioramafilliac ("A") has a choice to go to 2 law schools; Elite Law School and Douche Bag Law School. Elite, offers A a full scholarship if he maintains a 4.0/4.0. Douche offers A the opportunity to party hard, pay $40K a year in tuition and drive around in the school's parking lot everyday looking for a spot.
If A goes to school A, he must work hard, get little rest, sacrifice his social life but have the opportunity for a great job. If A goes to school D, A must party hard, get mediocre grades and defer thinking about a job until its too late. Which school?
Douche. Why? Because I've always wanted to be a broke douchebag that's why I chose UM Law.
They'll never be anyone who edits is post, will're?
People are flocking to UM because we now have a Dean with vision, our rankings are steadily climbing and a state of the art law school is on the way....