Incoming Latham associates are disproportionately traveling to third world countries for their bar trips this year. Apparently they want to get a sense of the destitution and despair that will consume their lives after they are laid off as first years.

You'd be an idiot to take a bar trip now. Save your money, kids. Batten down the hatches.

"Staycation" here. I had to move to TX for my job and the move alone (particularly furnishing my new place) was a big expense.

It is your patriotic duty to take a bar trip - and stimulate the economy. Go for it!

Sigh. Staycation here too; gotta make the stipend last til start date. So much for the extravagant plans I made 1L year.

A bar trip? That so.... 2006.

Didn't take a bar trip as I was still looking for a job (this was 2007), finally took a trip after I accepted an offer but before I started work.

No job lined up. Spent the week post bar applying for jobs and golfing at the local muni course.

Staycation--living off the "taxed as a bonus" deferral stipend from BigLaw firm for the next year. = roughly $35K.

An exotic trip does not fit into that equation.

No trip. It seems immature and irresonsible to take on more debt (I've heard of some people at my school taking on even up to 10k more). I feel lucky having only been deffered until Nov., and still no trip for me.

I'm going to the beach... Jersey here we come

Know of one friend/colleague who went to the Caribbean, a few others that just went back to hometowns. Everybody else is staying put.

Visited family in the NE- went to the Jersey shore and a Broadway show. Not quite an exotic trip but I needed a break and funds are tight.

Big Law Offer deferred for a year. I have big law stipend money and no rich parents. Hence, staycation.

If I wasn't deferred and had my salary waiting for me, I'd be balls deep in some 3rd world country partying it up. Instead, I'm just hitting the gym and trying to get ripped before I start my pro-bono fellowship.

Seeing as this is probably the last time in 30 years I'll be able to take a significant trip, I'm spending three months in East and Southeast Asia, recession or no. The Southeast Asia component may well be less expensive than a "Staycation" anyway.

1 - the Plaza sucks now. Should have gone to the St. Regis

Lake George baby, here I come

Traveling in China, India and Nepal for 3.5 months until starting work in January. You have the time off, go into debt and live a little.

I went to the National Aquirium with my daughter. No big trip for me.

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A few friends and I are going to Berlin, Prague, Vienna, and Oktoberfest. Yeah, I am deferred and probably shouldn't spend the money, but when will I have another chance to take a long vacation like this? Retirement?

Bar trip? Absolutely!! In fact, I'm commenting on ATL from the beautiful sandy beaches of Maui with a drink in my hand at 5:21 in the morning. Right. That's exactly what I'm doing.

And from here, I'm traveling to Japan to experience the Tokyo nightlife. I'll make sure to comment on ATL there, too, while the beautiful local girl I met at the bar "freshens up" in the bathroom.

From Japan, I'm heading back to the states to visit Napa Valley. I'll make sure to comment on ATL as my limo (wi-fi equipped, mind you) takes me from one fabulous vineyard to another.

Sure.

I started work two days after my Bar Exam, 15 years ago. I also worked every vacation in law school and college. I took my first actual vacation 5 years ago when I paid off the $150K I owed from college and law school. If I had taken a Bar Trip (assuming the firm had given me the time), it would have been to my sofa with a big jug o' vodka.

24 - I actually linked to another site to stream violin music as I read your story.

Bar trip - let's see - $100K in school loans; additional Bar loan; still looking for a job.

I don't think so.

I graduated in '91, also a recession year. I decided to go on my post-bar trip because it wasn't like I'd get a job if I stuck around (and in fact, the people who did stick around still didn't have jobs when I returned six months later). I backpacked all over Southeast Asia. I budgeted $10,000, and spent $7,500. I could not have lived for six months in NYC on that amount of money.

I say, do it. What are doing instead that's so great?

Actually, I have to agree that it appears the deferred are taking *more* and/or *longer* bar trips than those in past years. For example, after taking the bar a few years ago, I took a long weekend in Vegas. Some of my deferred friends and former summers at my firm, however, are taking multiple trips to multiple continents (One couple I know is doing almost a month in Africa and then two weeks in Europe. Another group of ten (10!) are renting a house in Costa Rica for two weeks and then going to Brazil) I have no idea if this also means *more expensive* bar trips, since global deflation seems to have kept the dollar strong and international travel cheap. But the prevalence and extravagance of the trips I know of still surprised me a little. An evil part of me is somewhat hoping one of the guys I know knocks up a local in Rio - won't be able to defer THAT start date.

25-no need, I made the choices I made on purpose. I am happy as a clam, debt free, and no Biglaw uberboss to worry about. Run my own small firm, successfully. Yeah, it sucked the big one to watch my classmates with tons of $ from summer asso positions and then on fancy vacations, but they were miserable after law school and now have megadebt. Sometimes it is a good thing to suffer for a while. You appreciate it later when you realize what you were suffering to accomplish.

10, perhaps the reason your biglaw firm does not want you is because you don't understand how bonuses and salaries are taxed at the same ordinary income rate and there's no such thing as "taxed as a bonus."

Elie gets a ATL misspelling trip and all I did after the bar exam was write this witty post.

PE and I are going fishing in Costa Rica. We had planned a trip to Martha's Vineyard later this month but he abruptly canceled. I have no idea why.

Costa Rica for 5 weeks..

Ohh yeah!! Last night I went to Dave & Busters... freeking awersom yo!!

30: sure, I don't understand taxes. That's why we have accountants. But you probably never get laid--that would explain your pent-up, irrational, anger at an anonymous poster...

28 - nice. I'm glad I'm not the only guy who has the "i hope the condom breaks" fantasy (or the "i hope she's got crabs" fantasy) when I see a db hooking up.

What's with everyone going to Costa Rica? I just got back from 10 days on the Outer Banks with a law school group and thought that was pretty exotic. Guess not.

back when i had my offer from biglaw i was planning on doing france or greece -- obvs those plans changed once the offer took off. instead i found a deal on travelocity for nyc and spent a week there.

Kash,

Are you interested in going to St. Barts with me?

Where in Costa Rica is everyone heading? I'm a rising 3L but already plan to go there next year since it's cheap (once you get there). East coast or west coast? Also doesn't hurricane season start around now? I think the west coast might be better for that reason alone. Thanks!

30--
I think what people MEAN when they say that (albeit incorrectly) is that the firm withholds taxes as if you are receiving the money and making your $160K. Of course, you will only be taxed on your actual $75K income and you will receive money back later, but the actual check that you initially receive reflects a much higher rate of taxation and results in less money in your pocket at first.

38,

Kash is in Maui with me. Sorry bud...

Two weeks in Asia and two weeks in Europe was the original plan.

After deferral to January, that changed to a week in the Caribbean. Still should be a fun time, but obviously like 1/5 the price.

Read Rev Rule 2009-29. Severance is considered supplemental income and the employer has the option to take out federal income taxes at flat 25% or using aggregate calculation, which would be closer to actual tax liability in the case of severance. My BigLaw firm took out the 25%, costing me several thousands of dollars that I could have used now rather than next year when I file my returns. I argued with them, but they could care less, it is simply easier for them to take out the flat 25%. So, 30, you obviously are either not a tax lawyer, or don't know how to research before you shoot your mouth off.

41 -

Kash snuck out of your hotel room in Maui last night and spent the night with me instead. We went back to your hotel in the morning, had breakfast, and charged it to your room. Sucks for you.

Rev Rule 2008-29, not Rev Rule 2009-29...typo.

Keg in the backyard with a straw.

Lots of good travel deals to be had right now.

Vegas and Florida are both hurting.

46 - Perhaps you haven't seen a keg in use before, but you can't drink out of one with a straw.

I still have a September start date. I'm staying put and buying a place.

Ok, when I enterered law school I had a lot of great plans and ideas. First, I honestly thought i would save the world somehow. I'm not trying to sound douchey or idealisitc, but I basically thought that with a top flight (T50) law school education, I would be able to make a big difference very quicky after receiving my J.D. And although it's silly, even as soon as 1L year I thought about my post bar trip. I had tentatively planned to go through Europe, Africa and Asia, in a world tour to not only play hard, but work hard. And through that work I would see where I could make a difference in the planet (but trust me fellas, as an ex ball player, I was going to play HARD).

Long story short, I had a tough time finding employment, and now I don't really have a job lined up. I still think I might run for local office, b/c I have that passion, but the cash isn't there. As for the bar trip, I decided to go VIP at the nicest club in the city where I live (cost me about a grand), and I did get laid that night, so fellas, I'm sitting not too shabby!

Deferred until December = 5 month vacation. One week cruise to Mexico along with a cross country trip to see all the National Parks. Plenty of family and friends time sprinkled in for good measure.

Its a staycation for me. No money to go anywhere.

Only two of my ten close friends are traveling. I clearly remember seven of them wanting to travel but with the economy, deferrals, and some not having a job, a trip to Santa Barbara (two hours away) is the most they can do and afford.

I start work in January, 2010, and I'm not intending to add more debt to my 120 load. I read a book in law school that told me to party now and pay later. Worst advice I ever took. My basic nut was covered but I borrowed to party. Can't remember all the
stoned nights and now I have this swollen pod of debt on my back. I learned a hard lesson about amassing future debt for so-called pleasure today. Don't mean to be judgmental, but I can't believe what I see some guys do. They buy the most expensive clothes, travel, staying in fancy hotels, have bottle service at clubs like it was ten years ago, max out their credit cards, and don't have a nickel come payday. These dudes have self-esteem, impulse-control issues or they've watched too much MTV, and will never rise to the top of anything. I've learned the hard way to delay gratification, reduce pressure and get strong. Going to pay off my loans as fast as I can and never go into non-mortgage debt again. My bar trip: I'm working as a waiter in Tribeca. Meet lots of girls, have money in my pocket and bank money every week.

50 - You sound like the world's biggest tool. I'm talking something on the scale of a crane that could lift tectonic plates.

A "top flight law school education?" "Not only play hard, but work hard?" "I did get laid that night, so fellas, I'm sitting not too shabby?" Who says "fellas?" The last time I heard the word "fellas" used I think it was spoken by the Fonz on an episode of Happy Days.

No wonder you didn't find a job. Unless Douchebag & Douchebag LLP is currently hiring, I'm not sure if you will anytime soon.

I want to have babies.

-Loretta

Can we do an informal poll?

Which of the following is more annoying:

a) Staycation

b) Vay-cay

all your vacation are belong to us.

#55 , I concur.

57,

c) informal polls

58 - wanna' try again, but in English this time?

Semi-staycation for me. I'm only going to only places that I have family (luckily some of those places are outside the US). Being deferred put my plans to Brazil on serious hold. Maybe when I retired :-/

Yeah, what is this "taxed as bonus" nonsense. Its income, you just have to pay taxes on it according to your bracket. Based on 60 - 70 K stipend that's about 25 percent. What sometimes happens is that they use a flat withholding of zero for bonuses. If they took that much money out then you'll get money back (at least some of it) in your return. Don't be scared, just do your taxes.

Also, to all those unemployed people or people on deferral is it absolutely necessary to live in NYC while you are doing nothing.

55, 59,
Listen chief (or chieves, if it's actually two of you), why don't you stop being so damn insecure and get off the couch. You got a problem with my word choice? If that's really the case, something tells me then you got more serious issues brah. Probably like you pwned on a dailing basis by guys like me throughout your life (and including law school discussions)

57 - Vay-Cay, but both make me want to gouge my own eyes out. Sort of like when people say they go to "B-School" or do something "on the reg."

I'm going to Vegas to meet some classy girls. That's where they all live right?

61--Complete epic failure. Welcome to the interweb.

Staycation is ridiculous. How can you vacation in place without pay?

va·ca·tion (v"-k"ZshMn, vM-)
n.
1. A period of time devoted to pleasure, rest, or relaxation, especially one with pay granted to an employee.

However, for those who must stay off the plane I suggest you go see Cold Souls, best movie out there.

my bar trip was an llm program :(

58 - Pictures of Mystal's Moobs or it didn't happen.

69,

Sounds interesting. Maybe you can Twitter about that later. Loser...

Bar trips do not have to be expensive and are truly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

I deferred mine last year because of a clerkship, and have three months off before I start this fall. Used miles to go to SE Asia for four weeks; staycation for the rest. I'm honestly not sure which part is going to be cheaper on a daily basis.

Three weeks in New Zealand for my a-bar Va-cay-cay. Holla.

What is that seafood dish that Maine is famous for? Because a road trip there might be fun.

all my friends going into biglaw are taking bar trips. i'm clerking (starting in september) & taking a staycation in my law school town. it's nice to be able to actually relax here!

I never understood the concept of the "bar trip" to begin with. Even in good times, who has the money to spend weeks running around Europe, the Caribbean, or whereever? If you paid for your legal education yourself, you are probably fifty to one-hundred-fifty THOUSAND dollars in debt. So far as I can tell, bar-trippers either don't care about owing even more people even more money, or they aren't paying for the trip themselves.

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What a waste of time and money the bar trip is- i don't know how or why this trend got started- this almost seems like a hallmark holiday created by travel agencies to get more money out of youg lawyers by convincing them they need a stress break

news flash, the stress level only increases after you pass the bar- if you need to backpack around Europe to relieve stress after the bar, this profession is not for you.

Bar trip is another casualty of the cold cruel economic reality that pushed my start date back till Jan. 2010. No stipend, no salary advance, no subsidizing public service work. Just more loans, more debt, more worry, more misery.
The bar trips I'll be taking are to the local watering holes.

I think it is in line with the "Grand Tour" that the children of the wealthy used to take back in the 1800s and early 1900s. The purpose was to get culture in addition to education. Most lawyers could use a little culture. Most Americans could use a little culture for that matter.

61 - You're a better person for not understanding that reference.

50 --

You were by yourself in that VIP booth, right? Yours has to be the douchiest post I've read in a year.

You can do 6 weeks in Central America for roughly 2K, airfare included - that's less money than you'd spend at home on booze, movies, dvd rentals, cab fares, and mini-golf. And Nicaragua has the best beaches in the world. You'll never have time off like again in your entire life - get off your ass before you wake up middle-aged and with 3 kids and mortgage. For those of you already facing those burdens, God help you.

50 is incredible.

#61 - You are an asshole.

Your Parents

I'm staying home - facing a firm-forced year of public interest work at 35% of my would-be salary, so I just don't have the money to spend. My boyfriend's parents took us to Florida for a weekend, and I'm going to see my parents for a week for the free meals. Otherwise, wonderfully bored out of my mind in my apartment.

Back in 2003, we went to Europe for almost a month. Times were good.

Some advice:

Take a "bar trip," change your identity, and never come back.

Whatever you do, do NOT take a trip to Boston. The women there will almost certainly shart all over you if you spend anytime in a bar.

You have been warned.

71 = winner

I have to move across the country to start work in early September.

So I'm laying around my apartment for the next two weeks (because I'm too broke to really go do anything), then making the move.

I'm not knocking people who have the means to travel for a couple of weeks. I'm sure that I'd be doing the same thing if I had the money. But I don't. I have barely enough to move, get a new apartment, and start working... but I've got no right to complain.. I still have a job. At least, until the bar results come out...

Bar Trip? Ha. I have a job at a firm in a medium-sized market, but I'm still too poor to go anywhere until I start work. I'm spending my days helping my brother refurbish an old house he bought in exchange for him paying my monthly bills. Starting work in September will be the real "vacation" . . .

50 is a meta-troll and he has bested all of you.

And I concur with 83 - your expenses in a 3rd world country, even if you add in airfare and average it in for all the days of your trip, are equal to or even less than the amount you'd spend at home. You can have dinner in SE Asia for 30 cents. Think about it.

Don't think #50 speaks English as a second or even third language. And he for sure ain't swift with the ladies.

Biglaw AND not deferred = bar trip in Egypt

50 -- I had a real good one lined up about how the only balls you've been playing are all the ones in your mouth . . . but now I feel bad that everyone else has ganged up on you.

Good luck with your job hunt. Even "balls" players deserve to get a decent job.

89 -

I was hooking up with this chick in HS when she sharted on my face. At first I was disgusted, but she told me that it was natural. Next day I was still skeptical so I asked some of my friends if they have been sharted on. And, I learned that lots of guys had similar stories. So, apparently, lots of girls in my HS sharted, it was no big deal.

89 - Every year they paint the town brown and have a Boston Tea Sharty. It's disgusting but generally fun for the whole family.

61. bested by old, but famous, pop culture. You might be from overseas. In Bratislava, internet owns LLM program, right? haha

Boston sounds nasty in the summer. How do the guys put up with it?

50

Please don't shoot up a yoga class.

Thanks.

Deferred until January. Put all my stuff into storage and am shacking up with my boyfriend, so no rent. Spending about $3k (savings, not borrowed) for 2.5 weeks in Europe in the fall. Otherwise, reading books from the public library, cooking from scratch, and enjoying the time off on the cheap.

Most big firm lawyers are trust fund babies whose parent shave more money than they know what to do with. Why don't you spend some of Daddy's and Mommy's money and go on your little bar trips?

Most big firm lawyers are trust fund babies whose parents have more money than they know what to do with. Why don't you spend some of Daddy's and Mommy's money and go on your little bar trips?

No bar trip here. I'm one of those "did everything right but still ended up at the firm that laid off all incoming associates" category. Those of you who bitch about stipends, at least you still have jobs...

A couple of my friends went on vacations, at least two are getting married right after the bar.

I started working the Monday after the bar exam. I spent the four day weekend drinking and just generally unwinding. I suppose I could have asked for more time off, but I didn't really feel I needed it.

I didn't want to sentence those boys to death, Danny. I felt I owed it to them.

Moved to a new city for work that starts in Sept. Spending my post bar time at the local beaches and bars. Kind of like a vacation since I'm new in town. Husband already started his new job so we really couldn't take a fancy trip. Did that over spring breaks in law school.

Just curious, as someone who lived in Boston as a kid, where did this "sharting" joke come from. Find it funny but feel out of the loop. What's the story?

Ah, yes, and also - the lobster jokes, what are those referring to?

50 -- I hope your comment is a joke

Anyone who is spending big bucks on leisure right now (without a trust fund) has/is:

A. Not paying attention to the big money picture.
B: Probably an addict.
C. Totally out of the loop of his peers.
D. Doesn't know how to enjoy the simple pleasures.
E. When we're all financially stable, will still be behind the debtors eight ball.
F: Never learn how to respect,handle or have money.

102 - yes you, the "shacking up with my boyfriend, so no rent" loser - hope you are earning your keep in your boyfriend's place to justify you leeching off his wallet. Standard policy is No Pay, No Stay.

102

You are going to spend $3k in savings to go to Europe but aren't paying rent at your boyfriend's place while you stay there?!?!?!? Chip in some money, gold digger.

Avoid Boston at all costs unless you want to walk around with a surgical mask on like they do in China.

Concur with 83 - It's the last vacation you'll take until you retire where you don't spend the entire time either working remotely, or flinching every time your blackberry buzzes (and you'll have to take it with you wherever you go) because it's probably someone at the office that is about to ruin your vacation.

73 - August is the dead of winter in New Zealand. Have fun cuddling up to sheep to stave off the hypothermia.

I've already sewn up the doman deferredassociatetravel.com (seriously) for all the BigLaw associates to spend their stipends surfing the REAL world while they wait for their real jobs to begin. Well, they've gotta do SOMEthing in the meantime...

I'm going to get my SJD in intercultural human rights. Totally worth it.

http://www.stu.edu/LLMJSDinInterculturalHumanRights/tabid/852/Default.aspx

Taking a weeklong trip to Spain and Portugal with a few friends. Roundtrip flights were only $500. I am lucky enough to have a job to start in early September when I return.

take the trip kiddies...live a little, the firm is going to suck the life out of you anyway -- might as well have some fun before the impending....

Mexico btw --next 2 weeks.

Let's take a vote on bar trips:

A) Costa Rica

B) Brazil

88 FTW

southeast asia

Took the February Bar, was thinking of going to Thailand, but instead flew to the West Coast, started in Portland and drove the 101 to SF to hang out with friends I hadn't seen in awhile.

Graduated in 06 - went around China and SE Asia for a few weeks. We were very reasonable - it didn't cost too much.

You can tell the difference between the commenters here: the prudent students (which I totally respect) are the ones that think they should stay home and save up; the associates are the ones who think you should do a bar trip.

I am a third -year associate and I certainly consider myself very prudent. Three years ago, I would have totally saved up everything I had (but the economy was booming then, so there was no urgent need), but with the benefit of hindsight, I think the associates are offering some words of wisdom. Never again will you have a few weeks of absolute freedom to do something you really want to do which will take time. It doesn't have to be really expensive - but just do something you really want but which requires 4-6 weeks. I actually think you will regret it if you don't.

I bet Partner/Dungeon Master Emeritus is taking an awesome trip to the rings of Saturn.

Bar trips are a direct result of the entitlement attitude that is sinking this profession. I love that so many of the people that wrote sappy personal statements to get into law school about "making a difference" changed to taking biglaw jobs at the first opportunity because of all their student loan debt, but they think nothing of dropping thousands a year on international travel. Are these people coming from money, or just hypocritical and financial idiots?

Honestly. People of our generation, you make me sick. "Oh, the economy is SO bad and I have all this debt!" Grow up. First, the economy took a hit, sure. It sucked. Sucked badly. But the sky didn't fall in and the worst is over. Besides, have any of you crybabies ever been to Mexico or China or just about anywhere not America/Europe/Japan/Canada? People are poor as shit. We have it good. Second, as for debt, law school is an investment; unless you dicked all your money away in law school, you're not really going to know your Return On Investment for years. And study after study has shown that a JD, *in the long run*, is killer. Maybe it isn't a license to print money, but was it always thus? No.

Point: stop whining, enjoy this time in your life, and go to France. Then, when you come back, work hard and save your money.

Honestly. People of our generation, you make me sick. "Oh, the economy is SO bad and I have all this debt!" Grow up. First, the economy took a hit, sure. It sucked. Sucked badly. But the sky didn't fall in and the worst is over. Besides, have any of you crybabies ever been to Mexico or China or just about anywhere not America/Europe/Japan/Canada? People are poor as shit. We have it good. Second, as for debt, law school is an investment; unless you dicked all your money away in law school, you're not really going to know your Return On Investment for years. And study after study has shown that a JD, *in the long run*, is killer. Maybe it isn't a license to print money, but was it always thus? No.

Point: stop whining, enjoy this time in your life, and go to France. Then, when you come back, work hard and save your money.

105: Me too.

Glad to know that there are at least 2 of us in the "did everything right but still ended up at the firm that laid off all incoming associates" category.

So no bar trip for me either. Instead, I'm making phone calls and running around town pounding the pavement trying to put my career back together. Regardless, life is good.

102 - don't listen to the haters. i'm a laid-off fourth year who's doing the same thing. i don't pay rent, but contribute groceries, cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc., and i paid for a trip (a super-cheap all-inclusive in the caribbean). enjoy this time, as i'm sure you are. oh, and good luck gearing it up when work starts - it's going to be hard to do!

Plans to cruise the Greek Isles got canceled when the deferral notice got sent out. Speed road tripping across the country (hotels are expensive!) to get home and live rent free until work starts in January.

Most people I know that are deferred less than a year aren't taking major trips. I know a few people doing cross country drives, but that's about the extent of it.

The people I know still taking trips fall into three categories: 1) those who are deferred for a year with large stipends, 2) those who aren't deferred, and 3) those whose parents would have paid for it anyway.

After I finished the bar, my post bar travels took me to the nearest real bar in town with the cheapest beer. I was back in the office by noon the next day (slightly hung over from the cheap beer). I have rent to pay and for some strange reason my landlord could care less that I was a top graduate of a low rung law school who just took the bar exam. The joy I am feeling with my life choices is overwhelming at the moment.

"Concur with 83 - It's the last vacation you'll take until you retire where you don't spend the entire time either working remotely, or flinching every time your blackberry buzzes (and you'll have to take it with you wherever you go) because it's probably someone at the office that is about to ruin your vacation."

So much drama.

101,

Too early.

Well... if you are a spoiled rich kid, which accounts for about 50% of law students, then it's Europe, South Africa, and Mexico. If you are not, then it's working at Wal-Mart hoping to pay off the mountain of debt acquired in the pyrrhic dream of becoming a lawyer.

Just one more example of why more education doesn't pay.

I did everything wrong, but I started work the Monday after the bar. Biglaw is for suckers.

7 days in Cancun with two of my buds. Got a cheap deal. I deserved and needed it.