Canceled Summer Program Watch - The ‘Mc’ Edition:
McCarter & English, McGuire Woods (selected offices)
The number of law firms canceling their 2010 summer associate programs continues to climb. Here are the latest additions to the growing list:
1. McCarter & English: Managing partner Eric Wiechmann confirmed to ATL that the firm will not be holding a summer associate program in 2010. In addition, he confirmed that incoming associates won’t be starting until December 1, 2009 (which, all things considered, is pretty good).
(Before some of you say you’ve never heard of McCarter, please note that it’s one of the largest firms in New Jersey — a sizable legal market. In addition to its main office in Newark, the firm also has offices in Boston, Hartford, Stamford, New York City, Philadelphia and Wilmington. Recently it made news by hiring Harley Lewin, a leading IP lawyer and trademark guardian, from Greenberg Traurig.)
2. McGuire Woods: This is a firm that needs no introduction. It’s quite sizable, with 900 lawyers across 18 offices worldwide, and it’s #61 on the Am Law 100 list.
A spokesperson for McGuire Woods confirmed what we’ve heard from various law student tipsters: the firm is “likely to reduce the number of offices in which we have our summer programs.” It has not, however, made a final decision on which offices won’t be hosting summers. (One reader predicts the firm won’t have summer associates outside of Richmond, Charlotte, and Chicago.)
But there’s some additional interesting backstory here.
Here’s the funny part. Earlier this week, while covering the Fordham Law v. Reed Smith controversy, we wrote:
We’ve even heard from students who were told, mid-interview, that the office they were supposedly interviewing for wouldn’t be having a summer program (but more on that later).
That was based on McGuire Woods. We heard about this from multiple law students going through on-campus interviewing (OCI) at UCLA Law School. Here are some of their reports (we received many and picked out three favorites):
TIPSTER #1
McGuire Woods Interviewer: So how are you feeling about your job prospects?
Me: Well, obviously it is a down economy, but I think I am a strong candidate because of [X Y and Z]. Besides, I try not to worry about things I have no control over like the state of the economy.
McGuire Woods Interviewer: Well, you should probably know that we currently have
no plans for a Los Angeles summer program. But we are still interviewing because it is a dynamic business and we want to have a pool of candidates to choose from just in case.
Me (a short pause as I struggle to maintain control of my facial expressions and suppress various wildly inappropriate words from coming out of my mouth): Oh. Really? Ok.
The coup de grâce: “What made this exchange even more fun was that there was still about 10 minutes left of the interview. Good times.”
TIPSTER #2
Apparently, McGuire Woods decided “a few weeks ago” to cancel their Los Angeles summer associate program but couldn’t be bothered to let anyone at UCLA know ahead of time.
This information might have been useful as OCI slots are distributed based on how high of a bid each firm is given. I would not have wasted a bid on a firm that isn’t running a summer program. Classy move guys, thanks.
On the other hand, maybe I should just feel bad for McGuire Woods. If interviewing 2Ls for a program that doesn’t exist is a high enough priority to consume a partner’s entire workday, they have to be hurting pretty bad.
Anyway, thought you might enjoy this as it seems illustrative of the absurd state of job prospects for the class of 2011. Another firm I interviewed with today was interviewing 36 UCLA and USC students for 1 summer associate slot. I can’t wait for tomorrow.
TIPSTER #3
A tasty little tidbit from the somber halls of OCI:
I showed up bright and early Monday morning for my on-campus interview with a branch office of McGuireWoods, and about halfway through the interview, the partner casually informed me that unfortunately McGuireWoods head office decided a month ago that they were canceling their summer program for all offices outside of Richmond, Charlotte, and Chicago.
After dropping that bomb, he happily went on to discuss his thoughts on the current state of the economy, and how he “felt so bad for everyone trying to find a SA position right now,” and that “if by some chance the head office decides to reinstate the program they didn’t want to be left without having interviewed any students.”
Thanks, sir. I’m very glad that I used a bid on a firm that stealthily wanted to avoid being left behind “if by some chance” the program is back on again later.
This may be the worst case of “Don’t call us, we’ll call you” I’ve heard of in a while.
**************
In happier news, congratulations to McGuire Woods partner Timothy Heaphy, who has been nominated by President Obama to serve as U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Virginia. It’s certainly a great honor for both Heaphy and the firm (even though he’ll surely be missed; on the other hand, perhaps he’ll return after his government service).
McCarter & English Continues To Expand in New York With the Hiring of Harley Lewin [Street Insider]
White House Announces Timothy Heaphy as U.S. Attorney Nominee [McGuire Woods]
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Comments
McFirst
Well-played, 1.
These McFirms McSuck.
How you like me now?
MCGUIRE WOODS RECRUITING = EPIC FAIL
McGuire Woods definitely needs an introduction.
McGuireWoods also told the summers in its Richmond, Charlotte, and Chicago offices that they would hear about hearing about offers by the end of July. (Meaning that by late July, partners would tell them when, later in the year, to expect to hear about no/offers, so 3Ls would have some idea of how much to freak out.) From what I can tell, the summers have heard nothing even though it's mid-August. Those of us who are already employed at MW haven't heard anything about 2009 summers, either. Out of sight, out of mind?
mcguire wooTTTs
Is the title of this post a slur on Irish people?
FYI, mccarter had a 15% growth in net profits last year.
WELCOME TO ID LAW YOU IVY LEAGUE BRATS!
8 - It's official (if it wasn't after that Seyfarth post).
ATL readers are hyper-sensitive and politically correct.
FML
What's a McCarter and English?
As a member of the Irish Republican Army, I take offense with the title of this post.
Maybe they went through the motions instead of canceling because they didn't want to get BANNED from UCLA, a la Fordham / Reed Smith?
This is just an outrage on McGuire's part. Why f up a kid's interview bids for no apparent reason other than to say that you were interviewing.
Look, just cancel the summer programs, and do it fast.
If suddenly the economy requires, and if suddenly law firms and clients desire cannon fodder, there are plenty of young associates, older and mid-level associates, of counsel and laid off service partners that they could nab very cheaply.
Thank you for making all of this public. This is outrageous behavior.
The ship be sinking...
If a firm decides not to pull a Reed Smith (cancel interviews) but decides to be a bit nicer and pull a McGuireWoods (interview and perhaps hire some summers if the program is reinstated), could the firm be subject to a Good Samaritan liability claim?
Obama must still be president!
McGuireWoods is already firing recruiting staff and will probably no-offer most if this summer program ... no surprise...
19 FTW. I laughed out loud.
McDonald's is still hiring
How does this decision by McCarter affect their NJ-based brethren?
7 - this is accurate, I heard the same thing from a MW SA. No communication at all.
Word on the street is Harley was fired for general sleaziness from old GT.
I would expect to see a lot of this through OCI. I just wouldn't expect the partners to be that forthcoming with said information.
What's a "New Jersey?"
FURST!!!!!
Those UCLA stories are WHACK!
For all of you who aren't familiar, McCarter does operate in the extremely sizeable market of New Jersey. For example the people of New Jersey have sizeable spiked haircuts, sizeable hoop earrings, sizeable attitudes, sizeable accents, sizeable oil refineries, and so on.
... And sizeable hair gel aisles, as well as sizeable tanning salons.
- 30
And we have chunks of guys like you in our stool.
Gov. Corzine
The partners are toying with us. That's what it comes down to. And many of them are enjoying it.
I can't tell you how often I've seen partners at Thompson Hine dangle offers of projects to associates, keep them in suspense for a few days, and then not give out the work (if they even had any work to give out in the first place).
And we've got plenty of partners "thinking out loud" about sending work to other offices, etc. any time they are mildly annoyed about anything.
Thompson Hine is such a shit hole.
I really feel bad for our SAs. Most of us are doing everything we can (and still struggling) to keep enough work for ourselves. They didn't get any meaningful projects this summer.
Thompson Hine - our partners' clients have mostly quit bringing the firm work, because our partners are mediocre yet overpriced.
How come this says there are 0 comments when in fact there are 33?
34 - Actually, there are 35!
Hmm....more summer program cancellations. I guess we're really going to have to go all out on our thank you letters after our screening interviews to ensure that callback for the other ones:
"Dear Recruiting Coordinator,
I really appreciate you inviting me into your office yesterday to bullshit and discuss my fictional aspiration to be a lawyer at your firm. I truly enjoyed hearing about your enthralling workday composed of sifting through thousands of pages of documents and arguing with opposing counsel over the pros and cons of utilizing semi-colons vs. hyphens. I can only hope to aspire to the same diligent level of monkey work one day and match your pot belly with one of my own. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to kiss your ass for an hour or two and I hope I have the opportunity to wipe it one day as well.
Best Regards,
Screwed Member of the Class of 2011"
MW wanted to defer 2009 graduates (2008 summers) and have them start later this year or even in 2010. But the firm didn't get its act together in time, so it decided to let them start on time (in September). To compensate, 2010 graduates (2009 summers) probably will be deferred far into the future.
In case anyone cares - McCarter has not done any layoffs (unlike Lowenstein Sandler, its chief NJ rival)
No 2010 SA program at McMystalMoobs either.
No 2010 SA program at McMystalMoobs either.
Dear Tipsters:
If you are so immature to recognize that the market is tough and SA programs are being cut, you really should drop out now and go to cooking school. Stop whining to ATL about how these big firms are hurting your sensitive entitled feelings. At least McQuireWoods has the integrity to be honest with you up front. I guarantee that some of my other big firm interviewers blatantly lied to my face about SA programs they had no intention of conducting.
I am outraged and appalled!
That's funny, #42, since I have some history with MW and I'm neither surprised nor saddened.
This would never happen in Houston.
Wow, the partner was honest and sympathetic during the interviews? Sounds horrible. Bravo #41.
I mean Bravo #40, not 41.
mccarter & english = IHOP breakfast
41 FTW. Except it's McGuire.
@11:
Yeah, they will work in ID or Collections, assuming they can even get those god-awful jobs. The partners of those firms may well throw their gold-plated T14 resumes in the trash, considering such candidates "overqualified". Hell, I didn't even go to a T14 school, and I was told that I was overqualified for collections work.
These students have a rude awakening coming for them if they are hurt by how Mcguire Woods treated them. Welcome to professional life, little children. Shame on you, ATL, for even printing this story. It gives a voice to a bunch of disillusioned and immature individuals who are clearly unprepared to enter the practice of law. Hey, Mcguire, when you start hiring I will submit my resume for a position. Your honesty is refreshing in this environment.
Surprised to hear about Lewin - he resigned from GT ostensibly to strike out on his own at the end of June. Rather short solo career.
I think 19 is on the right issue, but I would have expected someone to think about promissory estoppel. That seems to be where Mr. Lat is going with his analysis, apparently having scheduled an interview, in his view, the firm must follow through and hire someone.
19 and 52 = silly law students. Have fun trying to pass the bar with that sort of reasoning.
Ah, the sweet sounds of law students blaming law firms for not recognizing their brilliance. I bet if mcguire woods offered them a summer position that they would stab each other in the throat for the opportunity. Hypocrits.
Dear 38,
Lowenstein may have had a layoff, but they also: 1) pay associates more; 2) haven't deferred start dates; and 3) haven't cancelled their summer associate program.
Love,
Someone in NJ
53 = new to this site. Probably a UPenn State 1L.
53,
How can you call yourself a lawyer and not even be familiar with promissory estoppel?
It's called Restatement section 90! Look into it, moron. Basic stuff.
Ah, the sweet sounds of law students blaming law firms for not recognizing their brilliance. I bet if mcguire woods offered them a summer position that they would stab each other in the throat for the opportunity. Hypocrits.
UCLA 2L's are a bunch of whining girls. Sack up you primmadonnas.
Staffers at PH-NY got an email that their next paychecks will be short by one week. They were told that they could cash out a week of vacation to make up the pay. Sure looks like PH is having cash flow problems.
Being honest with them would have been:
Students, I'm sorry for the short notice, but we won't be having a summer program so we wanted to give you an opportunity to use our bid on another law firm so you have the chance to interview with a firm that may in fact give you a job.
I had a job interview like this, for a real job. They called me to schedule an interview, I took time off of work (I'm a law clerk), drove an hour each way and was told while I was there that they weren't actually planning on hiring anyone b/c they didn't actually have any open positions or money with which to fill the nonexistent open positions so even if they did have open spots they wouldn't be hiring, but they were just interviewing anyway, just for the hell of it, to stay ahead of the curve if they ever did decide to hire again.
I sorely needed a drink after that interview.
I had a similar experience when interviewing with a different firm a year ago as a 3L. The interview wasn't going well, and midway through the interview, the partner informed me that the entire firm was not hiring 3L's. Since they knew I was a 3L when I signed up, I took this to be a way of saying I was no longer under consideration.
@62 - lol, law is a great field, isn't it.
Harley Lewin was actually fired from Greenberg for (among other things) getting Diane Von Furstenberg and the New Yorker magazine sued over that article. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/12/12/a-greenberg-publicity-ploy-lawyer-writer-sued-over-ip-raid/
Just heard from the recruiting manager at the Baltimore office of McGuire Woods that there will be no 2010 summer associate program in the Baltimore office.
55,
So you are saying its better to bite of more than you can chew and then spit some out than to not just bite off more than you can chew?
-38
Speaking of McFirms, any truth to the rumor that McDermott NY is nixing its summer program (CUNY's career service office said that the firm has pulled from OCI)?
25 - MW SA? They have a South Africa office? Since when?
Same thing happened to me at a Pillsbury interview. What horseshit. They're just trying to save face by showing up to OCI.