FIRST!!!

This is really the stupidest series of posts ever. It has little to do with fall recruiting considering considering what many of the most "prestigious" firms are doing to their summer classes.

And your conclusions are ridiculous...Jones Day is now "walking the walk" because it moved up 4 spots in Vault based on a survey completed late last year? You've got to be kidding me.

Please stop making these posts. It is a waste of everyone's time.

anyone else think the timing of the NYT article - published when W/C was going after the GM bankruptcy - was interesting?

are we ever gonna see the WH "dont talk to ATL" memo?

Still can't believe Latham laid off 440 people. That's a large law firm by itself. Even though Vault is worthless, Latham never belonged in the Top 10 in the first place. 17-25 is the right place for it, as Vault rankings go.

JD Rocks!!

No one in the real world gives a sh!t about Vault rankings.

No one in the real world gives a sh!t about Vault rankings.

No one in the real world gives a sh!t about Vault rankings.

Latham laid off 211% of its NY associates.

Latham laid off 342 first year associates four minutes after they started.

Latham laid off every first year associate that didn't pass the bar except for the second cousin of a Hong Kong Of Counsel.

Latham ruined by life and my career by forcing me to complain on this blog all day instead of looking for a job.

-(Never Been Laid)-Off Latham Associate

Latham is the dark horse smart bet for OCI.

@6 yeah, but that's still not as bad as the firm that laid off everyone who failed the bar exam, with the sole exception of one person who happened to be the son of a partner. What was the name of that firm again?

Thanks.

P.S. I've heard that many people were laid off by Latham, but I've also heard that many people died of the plague in medieval Europe. Does anyone know which event had the higher survival rate?

13, see 11. Get a job!

LOL at Latham ever being ranked higher than Gibson in any sort of ranking. Except "top firms that suck." I suppose Latham would be higher than Gibson on that. Or "top firms that lay off first years." That, too. I guess there are a lot of lists Latham should be higher than Gibson on, actually. Disregard this.

Wait - why are we giving a cheer to WH again?

No one is taking Latham in this year's OCI.

Where is the famous Wilmer scare tactics memo??? Please share with us!

I gotta agree with 3 - this blog has sucked for at least two weeks straight.

In California, it is an embarassment to say you work for Latham (assuming you are one of the few who actually do). Many wonder how it has managed to stay around longer than Thelen or Heller.

I won't hire anyone that has been laid off from latham as a first-year, out of fear that it will be the wimp that's always bitching on this website.

These are all shithole firms at any rate. I would rather whore myself out on the street than work for any of them.

@21 - if these firms are so bad, why do you care so much about them to (a) read the story and (b) take the time to write a comment! Loser.

Latham NY laid off more than half the first year class only 4 months after they started. They canned 3 of the 4 people who failed the bar. The bar failing son of a partner miraculously survived. I hope Latham's clients enjoy paying Latham rates for his work.

Latham NY also laid off half the second years, and a third of the third years. In total, they cut 45% of associates last year.

Latham LA laid off a third of the first years only four months after they started.

Latham is a poorly managed shithole, particularly the NY office.

Latham is #1!!!

In first year associate layoffs.

Latham NY was on a hiring spree through at least late 2007, then laid off 45% of associates. What a poorly managed dump. Dave Gordon should be fired.

Latham would be the smart pick during OCI now that it trimmed the fat. Would much rather join a lean firm than a bloated carcass like Skadden. Do you really thing they would do another round of layoffs after all this bad press???

Latham = 2010 start dates!!!

jones day runnin' sh*t these days

We're probably in for a double dip recession, meaning Latham probably will overhire, again, then fire the shit out of the poor schlubs who took offers from the firm.

"But most of all, I hope you get a sense of the culture of teamwork, collegiality and strong commitment to quality and professionalism that have helped us become one of the world's largest and most respected law firms. How do these values translate into the daily lives of our lawyers? Discover how they are evident in many aspects of life at Latham [...]"

Dennis D. Lamont, Global Recruiting Chair

www.lw.com/Careers.aspx?page=CareersWhyLatham

So some laid off Latham associate got a job at my brother-in-law's firm, which consists of five attorneys. She came into work whenever she felt like it, and treated everything like it was beneath her because she came from Latham. She got shitcanned two weeks later. So look on the bright side all you recent grads and admittee's... you probably have a better shot at KEEPING a job than this bitch does (if you can get one), and at least you've never been fired from a firm.

Latham class of 2010, starting 10/2010, laid off by 2/2011.

"You will start in 2010."

"There will be no layoffs."

Latham's New York office has become a horrible place. Backstabbing, hypercompetitive. The partners have a "just be happy you have a job" attitude and treat us like dirt.

Some asshole is blasting "Free Falling" outside the lipstick building. Please stop, I need to concentrate on my fake work.

So Latham's down to 17...associates.

Hey, Latham hater, listen: all big firms suck. That's what they are most successful at: sucking. They are populated with partners who are scum, and Latham's partners are no doubt just as scummy as the rest of them. But all big firm partners are scum with the very rare exception (very rare). Being scum or becoming scum is clearly a precondition to becoming a partner. That's not news to anyone who works or worked at a big firm. And its not unique to Latham; sorry. You need to get over the fact that they fired you and move on.

31,

So Latham's class of 10 will be fired before Skadden's 10 class has even started? Impressive.

which firms fell out of top 20 status this year? that could be interesting.

Listen up recruitees. Latham's model is staff up in whatever's hot to make as much money as possible, then fire everyone once the work dries up. This is at least the third time that Latham has done this. Their New York office is the biggest offender.

If you don't mind this model + the risk of getting fucked by a double dip recession, then go to Latham.

Jones Day does NOT belong in the V20.

- Cold offered Jones Day summer associate (2008)

What's the deal at Arnold & Porter? They slurpy froze salaries, and people keep talking about falling revenues, but they seem to be doing fine.

37, Shearman & STTTerling.

@39- Clearly you DO NOT belong at a V20 firm.

Have a nice day.

@42... #39 here: Somehow, I'll live. I split with a much better firm, anyway, and am starting sooner than I would have at Jones Day.

#40 -- A&P is doing relatively fine due to strong management and some counter-cyclical practice groups. They're picking up partners from other firms. And Brooksley Born being right while Clinton, Rubin, Greenspan, Summers and Levitt were all wrong could not have hurt the firm's prestige.

Latham is ranked just about where they should have been all along, perhaps a little low. They'll take a hit with idiot law students for laying people off, but the smart ones will realize that as long as you stay away from the NY office, it's a good place to be right now.

45

The laid off first years from Latham LA (1/3 of the class), DC, Chi, SF, SD, would disagree with you. Plus the NY office used to be, and still may be Latham's largest office, meaning they easily drag the whole firm down with their problems.

Double dip recession = god help whoever is left at Latham. But go ahead and take that offer in you're so sure.

Latham needs to take a reputational hit, otherwise every firm is going to Latham associates at the first sign of trouble. Imagine how fucked we'd all be if every firm was Lathaming right now.

Vault is retarded. First off, if law students really think "Prestige" matters for anything other than a rough gander at which firms are "better" than others, they are in for a rude awakening when they get out. While the most "prestigious" firms will have brand-name law school diplomas and work, as well as higher PPP, they also have a disproportionate amount of douche bags and partners who do not give a crap about you or your life (hence the high PPP).

The idiots that say Latham/White and Case/etc. are not getting any applicants for OCI are clearly delusional. 2L's (and 3L's, where applicable) are scrambling and freaking out since the supply of jobs is severely squeezed this year (see Skadden). They will still have their pick of top quality candidates, and will be able to convince them (truthfully or not) that their firm is safe, gives great benefits, etc. In a couple years, it'll all be the same again.

48

Just like Shearman didn't suffer permanently. Oh wait...

@40--
AP is strong because of sensible expansion, regulatory work, litigation focus, D.C. H.Q., etc. Not insignificantly, for a beauty contest like vault, the people who work there like it and are proud of the firm (amazing pro bono, pro-working woman, liberal, high profile work).

Remember when Wilson Sonsini was a V10 firm? During the tech bust, they Lathamed their associates and haven't occupied a ranking spot anywhere near the V10 since. Remember when Shearman Lathamed everyone? They've suffered for nearly 7 years now because of that.

The market has time and again disfavored firms that are a) so poorly managed they have to Latham everyone, and/or b) are so selfish that they choose to needlessly Latham everyone.

The recession has revealed Latham's problems, and as Wilson Sonsini and Shearman have demonstrated, the drop is permanent.

latham wont be a good place to work until all the managing partners are "lathamed" and it is run like a normal business instead of a lemonade stand

Jones day sucks, especially in NY. It's full of mediocre patent lawyers who fancy themselves litigators.

We're all to scared to send the WH memo. Don't want to be fired, no one is hiring. And if you get fired for something like that, no severance pay.

RE: Wilmer Memo -

Instead of sending it, can you summarize what is says?

I'm guessing it says something about the Ghost of Lloyd Cutler disturbing those who speak poorly of Wilmer....

What else is in it?

Just a warning to law students or laterals - DO NOT WORK AT WHITE & CASE. All the firm cares about is high billables but quality is out the window (clients listen up too). 4th year associates there can't string together coherent sentences, cite check, or even get basic law correct. If you want to do low quality work at a shitty place (where they nickle and dime you for everything) then go to White & Case.

My buddy at Latham just slipped me some footage of the layoffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHBF8EKt-zc

Latham will fall farther.

Shearman and Wilson Sonsini were not the second-largest law firm in the US by revenue either. Latham will significantly bump up its PPP this year and sail off into the sunset ... and all that greedy law students and Vault paeans will be able to think of is that Latham PPP was _ million. Oh well, you deserve what you get.

59

Latham is paying for health care and severance to those laid off people all the way through august. there's no way PPP is going up.

That Jones Day partner was right. Latham's MASSIVE layoffs were REALLY short sighed and horrible for the firm in the long run.

I'm too embarrassed to tell people I work for Latham, so I say I'm a gay male prostitute to save face.

If you have to specify your gender to those with whom you talk, you might have bigger problems than working at Latham.

718 here - 721, Who told you that they haven't laid off since 1990, a Latham partner? Yeah, perhaps they've had no layoffs since 1990 in the same sense that what happened two weeks ago was not deemed a "layoff" by the firm but a mass firing because 10% of the firm's associates were "poor performers" notwithstanding having gotten good reviews year after year up to the moment the firm decided to lighten up. When you think of the dot com implosion, if you're thinking Latham didn't let people go, I suggest you look a little further.

I also think it's funny that you're lecturing about Latham and other firms not being greedy and evil when if you actually READ what I posted, you'd see I specifically said that all firms are not like Latham. (Looks like law school didn't help you much in the way of reading comprehension, but I guess that's not what Latham looks for in a lawyer anyway.) Latham uses a materially higher leverage ratio than many other firms and bulks up associate ranks in a big way during each boom over the last 20+ years, followed immediately by mass firings in the ensuing contraction (whether the partners prefer to admit they're "layoffs" or not).

No, while everyone knows the global economy is contracting and this is causing problems everywhere, the problems at Latham are engineered - they systematically overhire, and then fire en masse, with economic cycles, much more so than other firms, and on purpose. To see people here defending the firm as though the partners felt bad about doing something again that they've done repeatedly, so that each of them could reap millions on average, is laughable. Be careful about drinking the Kool Aid - sometimes the hangover is fierce.

Latham is the undisputed layoff king, as well as the sophomoric frat club of the AmLaw 200, and anyone who tries to justify this in the face of telling their associates they care is a sorry excuse for a human being. If you're going to base your business model on overhiring and layoffs, at least be honest about not giving a shit about your hires.

A job at Latham is just a better paying temp job - as soon as the work slows, if you're not sucking off the right partner, you'll be out in the street - count on it. No one with options and a half measure of common sense would choose it at this point unless they're related to someone in management.

My friend, a secretary at the L.A. office, got the axe today. I work for a small boutique firm and I'm so glad that I do. Last year, Latham spent a purported $10 million dollars remodeling office space on Grand Ave. prior to moving over there from their former office space. $10 MILLION DOLLARS! Who's watching the books? They turned the space into a mausoleum, which now seems appropriate. What a waste!

Friday, February 27, 2009 3:04 PM

I am shocked, simply astounded, that the associates we shafted today can't do simple math. There isn't enough money to purhcase our Hampton's houses, support our mistresses, pay for our cocaine habits, buying our 4th German luxury automobile if we have to reduce profits per partner. Hate on firms that actually undertand to leverage associates and create a business model that works.

Let's say I grew up in a gay commune and consequently have about eight dads. Furthermore, each is a big fat rainmaker at a v20 firm. Which of these firms will backdoor-hire me as a 3L even once they know they're entering a recession (and have consequently already slashed their upcoming SA class in half, choosing to offer summer positions to only 30 2Ls rather than the usual 60), and which of them will retain me after laying off the majority of my class, including every other barfail? (Oh yeah, another thing about me: I'm probably going to fail the bar LOL). Should there be a separate Vault ranking aimed at people like me? Because honestly, I'm starting to feel that the standard ranking fails to reflect the relative desirability of these firms from MY perspective.

I think we're forgetting the real reason for this shitstorm: about a year ago, Latham went to war with anon.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/04/latham_watkins_to_free_stress.php

There will be no layofHAHAHA

I can't even say that with a straight face.

-Bob

56:

You protest too much. White & Case does the best work in some practice areas and very solid work in others (See International Arbitration, Antitrust, Project Finance, Bankruptcy) Like every firm, it exists to make good money practicing law. This means billable hours (the bottom line) will always be important. Certainly some associates are subpar, but most are very good. I worked there this summer and was consistently impressed.

Reasons why Latham NY is worse than most other NY options:
-Dave Gordon
-midlevels are bunch of total assholes, selected for ability to suck up and lie and stupidity
-many minorities who should have never been there
-absolutely no diversification - all clients are banks who are not exclusive clients and no corporations
-Latham lost its biggest clients Lehman and Bear and leverage buyout funds no do any work
-they lie about how well managed they are and how they are the best while they are total shit
-unassigned system will use you like a monkey and you will end up knowing nothing after 3 years
-you will continue falling in rankins and latham will loose some of its top clients because of the fall in prestige
-you will be hired along with idiots who had nowhere to go (think cadwalader and shearman)
-too many gays and pregnant women (think cannot be fired)
-associates' committee are a bunch of assholes selected based on diversity and sucking up
-90% of partners are fake assholes who will throw you under the train right after the case is over
-Dave Gordon

Latham fell to 17 based only on being first to freeze. After accounting for being the first to fire 1000 people total, I will see you in the high 30s or low 40s.

-die you rats of new york (we will live on without you and shit on you from the top)

I have worked at Jones Day, along with two other law firms (one ranked in the mid-Vault range and another not ranked by Vault at all). Of all the firms I worked at, Jones Day had the least impressive lawyers and the least impressive work. How the firm is V20 boggles my mind.

@ 30: on the other hand, other laid off Latham juniors lateral within weeks to Wachtell.

But yeah, your brother-in-law really showed her. Those uppity bitches are totally going to get what's coming to them. Totally.

30, 74

basically, the firm 30 references is so shitty that an otherwise unemployed person didn't care about losing a job there. yah, your brother in law showed her.

Latham has done "overhire when there is work, slave people out as monkeys, when overfire" 3 times already. Do you think they won't do it to you next time.
Don't risk working for Latham in the next uptick. Leave Latham.

I couldn't agree with #73 more. Jones Day is not a V20 firm. I've worked there and, while I mostly enjoyed my time there, the caliber of both the lawyers and clients are incredibly unimpressive for a V20 firm (though there are, obviously, some exceptions). Like #73, I have worked at a non-Vault ranked firm that I felt had both better lawyers and clients than Jones Day.

73 and 77, nice try. It's not working and no one buys it. Jones Day keeps on trucking. Proof is in the pudding.

It seems as if AP and Jones day are pretty solid. Similarly ranked (if that means anything) and both have avoided mass layoffs.

Which would be the better firm?

59

So you're saying Latham is a very large mismanaged firm. Guess Latham won't be falling any farther then!

Jones Dizzle drizzles all over your fizzles my nizzles.

A&P just laid off today.

How many at a&p?

This is Chuck Shick. Chuck expects me to pay him $165,000 per year for failing the bar.