For the first time in my life, I respect Fordham Law School.

Fordham students deserve better treatment. Screw Reed Smith. They suck anyway and this proves it! Get out of New York, Reed Smith-- No one wants you anyway!

I suppose that I should know the answer to these questions, but (1) is the law school at Fordham University accredited by the American Bar Association, and (2) is the law school a member in good standing of the Association of American Law Schools?

Reed Smith ain't losing out on much.

*hustles to denounce Reed SmiTTTh*

Hell yes! Every school should do this.

This harms Fordham students more than it harms Reed Smith.

Reed Smith = ReMit (Fordham that is)

11th hour pullout happened at W&M too

Ha, yes, ABA accredited and in good standing. They're in the top 5 in terms of placing people at big firms because they're in NY.

Dean Treanor is the man. Fordham can do without that Schlockhouse. Well done.

I'm so glad the Dean reacted this way. Reed Smith had it coming. Dealing with bad publicity is always difficult for law firms.

In the future, F.U. students still interested in Reed Smith could always submit their resumes directly and, if granted interview, could create some "space' between themselves and the Dean.

Where's the reader poll on whether or not you should keep plugging your sister sites? I'd love to see the results of that one.

DEAN TREANOR ROCKS.

Firms with informally reported offer rates at or near 100% (info culled from ATL posts and comments):

Tier 1

DPW (100%)
Debevoise (100%)
STB (100%)
Skadden NY (100%)
Kramer Levin (100%)
K&L Gates NY (100%)
Dewey NY (100%)
Willkie DC (100%)
Ropes Boston (100%)

Tier II

Cahill (near or at 100%)
Kasowitz (near or at 100%)
V&E NY (near or at 100%)
Jones Day NY (near or at 100%)
Quinn NY (near or at 100%)

Tier III

Cravath (near 100%)
S&C (near 100%)
WilmerHale Boston (near 100%)

Ouch. PR nightmare when a school like FU tells you to f-off.

In case any of you were wondering what kind of firms JD was talking about in its "internal" memo - now you know.

This must be how business gets done in Pittsburgh? Philly? (Where the f is RS from???)

It may be exhilarating for Fordham to give Reed Smith a Bronx Jeer, just like it is when AROD strikes out. However, what purpose does it serve? This is one less firm, in the next five years when (presumably) the landscape improves that prospective students can consider.

Similarly, it may be fun to boo AROD, but he does better from positive reinforcement, and Fordham probably should have taken the high road and not ban the school for five years. There still are plenty of laid-off attorneys to join Reed Smith.

This is akin to me telling Carmen Electra that I won't date her for the next five years.

Dean Treanor has certainly shown Reed Smith who has the brass balls. I only hope they don't get glued to his stomach.

In 2002, Reed Smith's NY summer class consisted of 2 people.

Reed Smith could have just put on a show by doing OCI and then not giving out any callbacks. Would that have been less "rude"?

4, I believe they're provisionally approved and rising 2L's are required to pass a "baby bar." If they graduate, they are then eligible sit for the NY bar and may transfer to some jurisdictions after four or so years of practice. I believe their pass rate is around 40%, so they need to get it up a bit before full accreditation is instituted.

This isn't punishing the firm. There are 50 schools better than Fordham with students who will take the job. The only people this is punishing are the next 5 years of students.

Where is the 'retarded' choice. Yes, that is obnoxious of Reed Smith, but Dean Treanor is only shooting his students in the foot. You shouldn't make it harder for students to get hired in this economuy. Chalmers would never have done this.

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This does not make sense.

Reed Smith: We don't want Fordham students.

Fordham: As a punishment, you cannot have Fordham students.

I'm sure Reed Smith is struggling to fill it's SA class ITE

You f@%& with the bull, you get the horns.

Good for Dean Treanor for taking a stand. Fordam students shouldn't sweat not being able to interview with Reed Smith. Years ago, Reed Smith was a highly respected firm that had a repuation for integrity (back when it was Reed, Smith, Shaw & McClay). When they adopted a strategy to become an "international" firm, the integrity and professionalism they were know for began to fade. That place is nothing like it used to be.

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@25,

Sure, but in 16 mos., the students at the schools better than FU won't give RS the time of day. (Yes, young ones, the market will bounce back - albeit too late for you, but still....)

27 nailed it. In related news, I am banning Gisele Bundchen from my bedroom for the next five years, due to an inexcusable snub.

Isn't this just "you can't fire me because I quit"? They said they were withdrawing, and so the dean tells them not to come?

Granted, he's enforcing it for 4 more years, but how big of a deal is that really?

14 - Just ignore those posts. Very easy to scroll past them.

24 - I think Fordham is ranked in the 30s - there are not 50 better schools Reed Smith will hire from.

Give it a rest, 16. There is little to no distinction between tiers in your 3-tier breakdown.

I love that this was posted only 1 hour after it was emailed out by the Dean. The internet really is some kind of hell, isn't it.

Fordham grad here, proud of Dean Treanor. The market will bounce back one day, and NYU and Columbia students won't exactly be beating down Reed Smith's door.

What the hell tier system puts cravath below kl gates?

37 - Tell that to the few 3Ls without offers from Cravath and S&C. Meanwhile "the most useless kid" in Dewey's class is maxin and relaxin, straight chillin with an offer in hand.

This is a nice little stand for the dean, but schools cannot afford to do this with more than one or two firms. And if a top-tier firm pulls out at the last minute, no school is going to do this to them.

Reed Smith is based in Pittsburgh.

"This harms Fordham students more than it harms Reed Smith."

+100.

27 wins

Guys at my high school used to pull out at the eleventh hour all the time. It was no big deal.

I applaud the Dean for taking a stand.

This is a case of the ugly girl thinking she's pretty because all the other girls are away at cheerleading camp.

RS is a hastily merged group of craptastic regional firms and a repository for undistinguished graduates of regional law schools.

In any other year, they'd be tripping over themselves to get a T2 grad, let alone anyone from FU. The market's temporarily dried up, and now fugly thinks that it's the new beautiful.

Wrong and wrong. Good job by FU's Dean.

Granted, Reed Smith probably wouldn't lose much sleep over not being able to OCI at Fordham, but now that this has hit the news, Fordham's way ahead of the story and Reed Smith has to play catch-up, explaining for why they acted inexcusably rude in an industry that relies heavily on professional courtesy.

24: there aren't 50 law schools better than Fordham so your post makes no sense. And I'm not going by rankings - Fordham should actually be higher based on the quality of its student body (e.g. Legit Columbia and NYU rejects are still typically better legal minds than those who go to Washington University, etc.).

The ban means little - it's the public PR smackdown that will hurt Reed Smith.

This email is in the dictionary next to the entry for "AWESOMENESS."

Fordham kids relied on Reed Smith's appearance when creating their bid lists and now they have gaps in their interview schedules because RS pulled out. That is wrong.

47 is spot on.

24/36 - Fordham is ranked in the 20s.

38 for the win!

As a Fordham grad, I've always respected Dean Treanor, and this raises his esteem in my eyes. Hopefully he continues to lead the school in the right direction.

If Wachtell decided to pull this type of shenanigan at Hofstra, they would be barred from recruiting there forever, but that is understandable because Hofstra is a good school and Fordham is a festering toilet in decline.

I wonder how the Fordham-educated partners at Reed Smith feel about this? (Yes, there are some.)

ATL - why don't you reach out and do a follow-up?

Lat -

You are an idiot. Law firms should make the decision as quickly as possible for purposes of reducing their external costs (i.e., attorney travel arrangements, fees charged to conduct OCI, etc.), however, situations within law firms change (departures, mergers, ect.). There is, and should be. no consideration of law students or law schools inconveinence. Any law firm that considers these factors is doomed to fail.

Big Law Partner

Good thinking, RS. Because those T10 kids are probably in it for the long haul, aren't they? They're just dying to learn from your army of T3 graduate partners? They certainly aren't just waiting for a year or two so the market rebounds and they can nestle in as a second year at the Skaddens and Clearys of the world.

Good strategy. Brilliant business plan. Poised for the future.

58: Hey look, I can pretend to be a partner too!

V10 Hiring Partner

not a peer firm

With the economy the way it is, any firm that's hiring has the pick of the litter from top schools. Our summer associates this year came from much higher-ranked schools than our usual crop. But a few years from now, when the big names are hiring again, firms like Reed Smith won't be able to be quite so selective, and they'll wish they had access to a top-100 school like Fordham.

As for whether the dean did the right thing... I suppose it depends on the circumstances, which are not at all clear here. Did the firm have financial problems that caused them to decide at the last minute that they could not support a summer program? Or did they just decide that in this economy they can do better than Fordham? If the latter, then a smack-down is appropriate; if the former, then maybe not.

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN.

They are still letting V&E Houston come, right?

All this does is incentivize other firms to show up to on campus interviews with no intention of hiring anyone. The FU administration's minor inconvenience of having a firm drop out ensures that students and lawyers will get to waste their time doing meaningless interviews. Congrats, dean!

Dean Treanor to Reed Smith: What'd the five fingers say to the face...SLAP!

Today I'm especially proud to be a Fordham Law graduate.

31 - hilarious

I think this was a good move - it's good for law firms to know that there are consequences for revoking any of the subtle, but crucially important, professional courtesies that still exist in our field. This decision was good for law students everywhere even if, as some commenters suggest, Reed Smith has more to offer to Fordham than the other way around (though that assertion is rather debatable).

A quick review of Reed Smith's website reveals that associates in their N.Y. office hail from the hallowed halls of Brooklyn, St. John's, Suffolk, NYLS, and some others. Hardly an NYU or Columbia grad in sight. In other words, they'd be lucky to have Fordham students.

is it me or is the dean's writing attrocious?

I understand the sentiment for appropriate votes. But I voted inappropriate because Fordham just eliminated a possible future employer for some of its students for the next five years. It just seems to me that this did less to stick it to Reed Smith than it did to decrease Fordham's student's probability @ employment post-grad.

We'd rather shoot ourselves in the foot, than be polite.

Firm, then family, then Fordham.

- Managing Partner

Dean Treanor Two-Pieced Reed Smith for the world to see. BLAT!

70- its you.

This could help Fordham if it makes other firms think twice before the choose to act like a**holes and pull out right before OCI. Note that other firms have pulled out of Fordham's OCI (as at other schools) and there was no reaction by Dean Treanor like this one. It's really just about showing consideration. The small harm to Fordham students from the absence of RS in OCI (someone above mentioned they only had 2 kinds in their NY summer class a few years ago) will probably be more than made up for by taking a stand and sending a message to other firms.

This is awesome. Glad Dean Treanor took a stand.

And 59 nailed it - for RS to pull out of Fordham, likely in favor of higher ranked schools is idiotic. First, RS is going to get the bottom students at those schools. Second, they wont be staying very long.

47 nails it too. Lower ranked firms don't get to act like this just because the economy sucks. Truth is, when things come back, they will be hurting due to the poor relationship with Fordham.

F*%$ Reed Smith - that firm's reputation was already shitty, but now, it's even worse.

The Dean of Fordham Divinity School should have co-signed the email. Pulling out at the eleventh hour is a sin. See Genesis 38:8-10

Are some of you high? To quote Rick Pitino (which I probably shouldn't in light of recent news):

“ Larry Bird is not walking through that door, fans. Kevin McHale is not walking through that door, and Robert Parish is not walking through that door. "

Bear Stearns isn't coming back, Lehman Brothers isn't coming back, Merrill Lynch isn't coming back, Chrysler (hopefully) will be put to rest, GM isn't coming back in any meaningful way, WaMu isn't coming back, the American economy that we've known from post WWII until 2008 isn't coming back. Reed Smith may be a terrible firm, but any law school, Yale or Fordham that burns a bridge in the new economy is acting against the interests of its students.

24= clueless 0L

As an FLS alum here, I would be interested in seeing the OCI stats for Reed Smith offers in the past 3 years. Any students with access want to post that here? At least when I was there, the school tracked the past few years worth of interviews vs offers in their job database.

If RS didn't really make many offers to begin with, I don't see the loss.

65 hit the nail on the head.

Didn't Reed Smith do the honorable thing? Would you prefer if they showed up with no intention of hiring anybody?

Reed SmiTTTh sucks. Their big line is "One of the 15 Largest Law Firms in the World." No mention of whether or not they are good, or why they aren't one of the 10 Largest Law Firms in the World.

Bunch of assclowns just got smoked by the Jesuits!

Good for Fordham.

When are law students and law schools going to realize that they have zero bargaining power? You are a commodity. Now, there are thousands of young lawyers, with experience, begging for work, This action will have no impact on Reid Smith. They will simply go to another school or hire a recently layed off associate.

@83 - Reed Smith's tagline is sort of like Georgetown expanding the list of top schools to an otherwise random number just to include themselves.

I wonder if RS asked for a refund on their OCI fees?

Reed Smith is the Fordham of law schools.

Most OCI programs involve firms interviewing students they think they have no intention of hiring (e.g. part of the process is randomized rather than firm-selection), but sometimes those students are indeed hired.

R.S. should not have pulled out from what I can assume was a small slate of interviews, thus greatly disappointing those students who had a slot.

The issue doesn't revolve around whether they were smart in doing so (e.g. saved money, etc.), but whether it was a professional thing to do, and one can't help but come to the conclusion that the answer to this question is a resounding no.

Kudos to the Dean!

60, your impersonation of a biglaw partner is actually more convincing than 58's, if only for the fact that your post is not riddled with basic spelling and grammatical errors.

Reed Smith probably wont be around in five years.

Brand new Fordham 1L here. F**king awesome! I didn't really need another excuse to love my school, but this one qualifies. <3

hysterical! love it!

good for F Law. I'm sick of my OCI interviews being canceled after applying!

GO TREANOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish other schools used Fordham as an example and took a stand. Its a sad thing when schools that purport to train advocates refuse to take a stand for their own students.

85,

... except that many firms continue to prefer an unknown (law student) to a known failure (laid off lawyer). Maybe that's a mistake, but that's the way it is.

Dean Treanor to Reed Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxBvUqLs_eU

85: nobody is hiring recently "layed off" associates.

For the first time in my life I'm proud of my country . . .I mean law school.

Mama Obama

this. is. awesome. i don't go to fordham, but my respect for the school went up.

80 - in the past four years the greatest number of offers they have given is 4. no one has accepted any of their offers.

can't see the loss.

85 - You mean "Reed" Smith. Don't worry, it's not like the 83 people before you spelt it correctly or anything.

"Dean William Treanor announced the move to the law school in a saucy email that truly puts the "F.U." in Fordham University."

LOL

Good for FU!

More schools need to do this. If a firm pulls out at this stage, they're saying that they won't even honor their commitment to consider students from that school. If they can't even keep that commitment, they should be barred from recruiting until they get the message. In the long run, if enough schools join in, they'll get the message.

To 4 and 23: F.U.

Fordham grad.

Good point 33, but Reed Smith isn't exactly Gisele Bundchen.

33-

Gisele Bundchen looks like a man.
Her body is a 10, but her face is a 5

I applaud the dean's message, but this just hurts the students who need jobs more than anyone else.

Reed Smith could have done what many firms do:
- go ahead with interviews
- give no offers
- be invited to come back next year

would this behavior make Fordham happy?

92: enjoy the honeymoon now, because you won't be loving your law school so much in about 12 months time...

Good to see HofstraMagna is out and about. Thanks for chiming in.

Reed Smith = pwned by Dean Treanor

78 here.

I'd just like to add that I know a lot about the way the world works and how the economy functions because I have an undergrad degree in poli-sci and I read the Wall Street Journal, sometimes. I also generally know what banks and financial institutions do. I read an article on hedge funds yesterday, actually.

Thanks...just in case you were questioning whether I had a clue about what I was talking about.

Honor thy father, thy mother and thy Fordham Law student: that thy interview slots which the Lord thy God giveth thee not beith withdrawn. (Exodus 20:12)

108: this will force Reed Smith to change how it acts in the future. Not everything is only about redressing a past wrong.

This is #92. I'm PI bound, actually, and will probably not summer at a firm, but I still thought this was awesome.

115- before people start ragging on you, clarify whether PI = public interest, or personal injury.

It's funny how many people on this board think that this hurts Fordham and is a stupid move. The issue here goes beyond market forces and bargaining power. It speaks to a more important issue: self respect.

You need to set standards and create consequneces for violations. If you don't you lose respect in the eyes of others and you probably have little or no respect for yourselves. You should know that the market will be aware of this situation (for example, partners know who they can beat into the ground without any pushback) and will certainly applaude your efforts and flexibility. However, if you have no line and no backbone, partners and clients alone will see you for the spineless person you are and will never let you go beyond whipping boy status.

Short term, yeah, you win. Long term, you cap your potential, the market will know that you are weak, you will be taken advantage of and you will recognize just how little power you have over your life.

No one wants a smushed tomato.

Reed's behavior is clearly inappropriate. Punishing Reed by disqualification, however, is more of a punishment to the students who can no longer interview with Reed for the next 5 years if Reed shall choose to interview at F.U.

seriously so dumb of the dean

Nice. In a related story, Cooley one-upped Fordham by banning Cravath for ten years, after which they will be invited to apply for conditional reinstatement to Cooley's OCI program.

I love the group therapy law students provide to each other on this site. To echo 85, law firms do not care that they might damage their future recruiting possibilites at a school. Law students 5 years from now (and yes. most of us think it will take that long for things to get back to normal), will care about one thing - how much the law firm is paying. Only the top law students at the top schools can unilaterally select a law firm.

Not 85.

92: your school is a fine one, but I wouldn't get too emotionally attached. Remember: a law school is merely a business that "manufactures" law students. It has a bottom-line, an endowment, and it likes to see that bottom-line grow.

117- Well said.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh SNAP!

116: Public interest. I didn't get into Stein Scholars, but I'll still be involved, as much as I can be.

115 -

You're PI bound and didn't summer? Did they cancel the summer program at Jacoby & Meyers? Did Jim Sokolove no offer you? Perhaps Dane Shulman and the Law Offices of Johnny Cochran are cutting back on their programs as well.

I haven't seen any commercials for the personal injury firm summer programs recently so maybe that's why you aren't going to summer at a firm?

If I were Fordham, I'd send an email back to them saying they might as well make it 10 years, or 30 years, or 100 years for all Reed Smith cares because they will never come back. The only classless act in this story is the Dean's response to a firm's sensible business decision.

oh, snap. i smell an estoppel case! . . .

The Dean needs to realize that he doesn't have much to threaten Reed Smith with. Fordham is not an elite law school, and Reed Smith is a PA firm , and not a NY firm. A 5-year ban from Penn means something. 5 years from Fordham is notihng- by the law of averages, they probably wouldn't have hired any Fordham grads over that time anyway.

Given Fordham's minimal importance to Reed Smith, a ban only means something if it is indefinite- but the Dean didn't have the balls to do that.

I did a search of the firm's website and found only 2 Fordham grads- are you kidding me?

But this is typical from a Dean at a marginal law school- no balls and no teeth

I say bully to the Dean!

My only question is would PE's firm do something like this? And does PE pull out when's he's in the Champagne Room at Rick's?

The reality is that future Fordham students will go behind the dean's back and mail their resume directly to Reed Smith. Then Reed Smith will select a few, interview them, and make offers accordingly. They will not be at OCI, but this will have very little difference on the classes.

Bargaining in the shadow of the law -- it's what we call it at Chicago Law.

83- "smoked by the Jesuits"--unfortunate turn of phrase.

All posters stating "this will really hurt Reed Smith"--you are seriously deluded about Fordham Law and the current and future state of the legal economy (for most, if not all, of the next five years).

To all the folks acting like Reed Smith is some sort of Cravath:

Dream on!

Fordham students have a history of turning down Reed Smith offers, not vice versa.

129- what else did you find (focusing on the ny office)? If you were looking, you'd have noticed plenty of associate from schools way shittier than Fordham.

Fordham students will be joining Roxanna on the bread line. You really showed Reed Smith!

75 kinda nailed it -- to the extent there were other law firms planning to ditch further interviews at Fordham *this year* he's made them think twice. Whether they intend to hire Fordham grads or not, no firm likes bad publicity.

But I wonder what this does for future OCIs. Assuming market conditions are shit next year, firms on the fence about Fordham grads may stay away just to avoid the potential embarrassment should they decide to pull out.

"Ethics and professionalism are at the heart of the legal profession."

Ideally, yes. In reality, far from it. This is an era in which law firms have been exposed for what they really are: profit-driven pyramid schemes that chew up and spit out associates during the good times and fire them without remorse in the bad times. The view of the law as a "profession" is romantic but antiquated. The law firms do not care about us. They don't even really treat us like human beings. It's nice to see a Dean push back against it, but it's a lost cause at this point. Welcome to the machine.

130,
Interesting questions you pose. I don't know the answers but I did see PE this morning on Madison Avenue singing "It's Raining Men" in a loud falsetto voice.

Hey clowns who say this is a bad idea, in two years when RS comes back and sponsors some sort of on campus event all will be forgiven and the blacklist removed.

-Not a FLS student, but wish my dean did this.

117,

ATL commenters are made up of a disproportionate amount of XOXO infants. Half these comments are saying FU are idiots, but over 80% of the pollsters say otherwise. Unfortunately you have you weed through all this cynicism to find people making sincere comments.

When trying to get laid, you don't beg for it. You act like you'd be doing the object of your desire a favor by sleeping with her. The wise Dean understands this.

Ahhhhh. Sweet vengeance for OCI coitus.

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Now the dean's in the hot seat to make RS deeply regret its decison for the next FIVE YEARS. FU has to have amazing students and programs that the firms are going to be itching for more than ever. Dean, you gotta live up to your own high stakes! Raise the bar over the next 5 years! Bring up FU's standing higher and higher!

Knowing quite a bit about Reed Smith generally and specifically Reed Smith NY, I can tell you this is absolutely in line with how RS conducts its business, and Fordham should be congratulated for drawing a line. RS generally, but specifically RS NY, deals with their people in an absolutely unacceptable and disgusting manner and they have for quite some time. There is a reason RS NY has been unable for a long, long time to gain a foothold in the New York marketplace. A second tier firm treating first tier talent like migrant workers does not make good business sense in the biggest legal market in the world - one where RS has never and still does not carry a great deal of weight. This isn't Pittsburgh. Perhaps this will be a wake-up call as to this fact.

138

And you didn't take a video with your phone. For shame.

Ethics and professionalism departed from the legal profession many years ago. It's a total joke for anyone to think that lawyers are anything other than whores that would suck you dry for thin dime bag a shit.

I agree with 58.

This is a perfect example of law school delusion. The schools must give the firms a reason to recruit their students; it is not the law firms' responsibility to kowtow to the schools. The schools rely on the firms for existence, not the other way areound. The dean's immature response to harsh economic realities only hurts the school's reputation and its law students. His actions make him appear deluded, immature and entitled. He should be fired.

My frat buddies in college used to pull out at the 11th hour all the time...it was no big deal

149 FAIL.

117: Exactly. I am positive my alma mater, Brooklyn, would've bowed, scraped and said it was an honor just to be nominated.

90 - That is why partners have associates - to review their writing and correct spelling/grammar mistakes. It amazes me after all these years that posters on these lawyer sites still point out spelling and grammar mistakes.

Is it impossible for you people to ignore these things and understand the message being conveyed? Do you have OCD? I believe that is why so many people who get good grades and were on law review cannot do well as lawyers - can't see the forest for the trees.

"The schools rely on the firms for existence, not the other way areound."

Something tells me Fordham will still be around without the invaluable presence of Reed fucking Smith.

90/152- ok, we believe you. You're just a partner with sloppy habits who reads abovethelaw. Nice going.

I want to hear PE's thoughts on pulling out late and its ramifications.

153 - My god, you are dumb.

88: no, Fordham is the Fordham of law schools.

Recruiters at law firms are generally lazy dim-witted former attorneys or administrators who do their jobs poorly. What is surprising in this story is that schools are not more used to this sort of unprofessional behavior.

Re-posting to reach more eyes:

Serious question and hoping for a serious answer by someone who is "in the know": I have heard about all these great federal gov't positions for entry-level attorneys. Right now I am sitting on an offer and it's decent money and not too bad really, but I want to know what my chances would be for these entry-level fed gov't positions.

Credentials: Top 40 law school, right at top 40% of my class, secondary journal, URM (Latino).

What would be my chances if I threw my hat in the ring? IRS, SEC, FDIC, etc.

154 - 152 here, and I am not 90. I am a partner and I do post here. I sometimes get bored and like to come here and play with the Lilliputians (please correct my spelling and grammar at will, although I will probably ignore you).

@159

Go Away!

159 - if you have an offer take it immediately and thank your favorite deity. If you hold out, your offer will disappear in the 26 weeks it takes for you to be rejected by the gov't.

160- you have yet to ignore anyone correcting your grammar and spelling.

Shut up 4. You know that Fordham is accredited.

164,

A bit late to the game aren't we?

163 - Read my post at 152. I am describing you.

158 - Right, b/c the decision to pull out was made by a recruiter without running it by the hiring partner first. Who's the dim-wit?

Dick move but who cares, students pull that crap on firms, too. The 5 yr ban only hurts the students and will probably be lifted in 2, during which time RS (or most any firm) can have their pick of the hundreds of write-in resumes they get from FU students.

Dean Youkilis just charged the mound and ran over Reed Porcello .

166- in 154 you said you will probably ignore people who correct your spelling and grammar. You have yet to do that. Instead, you respond and post that you have people to do that for you.

I'm guessing the comments against Fordham's actions are coming from TTT students who would kill to have a shot at a marginal firm like Reed Smith. To those students, have at it! RS is all yours.

Fordham will never be elite, but we have much better options than RS. Dean Treanor's actions reflect the firm's little value to our students, and - most importantly - send a strong message to the firms we actually care about.

Thank you, Dean.

164, but is it accredited by the ABA or the Accreditation Association of Christian Colleges and Seminaries? I feel I should know this, but I'm afraid I can't keep track of every fly by night school out there.

How many lawyer jobs did Treanor create this year?

FUrst!!!!

Section 4 rocks!!!!

172 - it's a trick question - he doesn't create jobs.

4 / 171 needs to get laid

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170, Awww, spoken like a true 1L with nothing but hopes and dreams of fame, fortune and success (and lollipops?!) upon graduating. Honey, it's not all that easy and the way things are going, you'll be lucky to have AN option when you graduate.

Don't all Fordham kids just end up at Cadwalader anyway?

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169 - Please point out where any spelling or grammar has been corrected.

176-179: Your retarded (x4)

180: WRONG. Fordham students have their pick of top jobs. Lawyers are in high demand, even in this economy. People will always sue each other. And what do you need when you file a complaint? A Fordham lawyer to follow up.

This is just another example of what a great guy Dean Treanor is. A lot of other schools would probably be kissing the firm's ass and begging it to come back next year. I applaud the Dean for sticking up for his students.

Bravo.

167 - it would be more likely for a recruiter to be told what to do by the hiring partner with plenty of advance notice and then fail to do so in a timely manner.

Reed Smith has 1463 attorneys and a total of 20 Fordham JDs. Can't see how the tough talk and 5 year campus ban will impact anyone. When you only supply 1.4% of a firm's total attorney workforce, your bargaining power isn't all that great. Instead of being attacked or ridiculed, the firm should be congratulated for making a smart economic decision and not waste money on an institution that isn't all that important to Reed Smith or the firm's recruiting goals. PS. Want to bet the Dean doesn't end up regretting that decision?

188- the proper focus is on Reed Smith's NY Office. How many of the lawyers in that office have JD's from schools that are worse than Fordham? The answer is most of them.

185: Oh sorry, I didn't realize that your idea of a top job is at 1-800-Lawyers and you're aspiring to build a lucrative career representing dumbasses looking to "sue each other". Seriously, did you even think twice before Daddy told you that law school would be a good idea?

Fordham is way behind the curve.

Reed Smith offered to recruit lawyers from our school, so we issued them a permanent ban. How dare they try to touch our paralegals.

-Suffolk Law Career Services

Awesomeness.

184: You're illiterate (x1)

Dude -- you're Fordham Law. Reality check. You can ill afford to be banishing firms from OCI, even if it is a garbage firm.

Fordham: Sorry Reed Smith, no OCI for 5 years.
Reed Smith: But…I had to take my mother to the chiroprator.
Fordham: Well, I'm sorry, that's our policy.
Reed Smith: Oh, you have a policy! The delicate genius has a policy!

Co-Stanza

5 year ban will only hurt Fordham students in the short run anyway. Even before the economy went sour ReedSmith treated most of its attorneys like crap. They do doc review for 8 years and then get told to look for work elsewhere because they don't have a book of business. Why go through that for a firm that's not even prestigious?

great. publicly vent and impose a splashy five year ban that doesn't require any self-discipline or cost to Fordham. great PR.

PSA to hiring partners: drop Fordham from your lists and don't be candid with them. they will use you as a public whipping boy for their own self-satisfaction. screw them.

and what is that nonsense about Fordham showing ethics and professionalism in everything they do? like when they game rankings. is that Fordhamian ethics at work?

Would it have been more professional to conduct the interviews? This is not only wasting the students bids, but also their time.

They could have informed the school earlier, but for their own reasons, they did not. That bridge is crossed, and now they decided to let FU students know there was no point in interviewing with their firm.

The FU Dean then gets pissy about it and the result is bad PR RS & less future job prospects for FU students.

my firm's hiring committee was considering adding Fordham and you can believe that this has dropped them from our list.

two hundredith

at 197: fordham games ranking? gimme a break. fordham is one of the most underrated law school in usnews at rank #30. fordham has the biggest presence in big law firms other than t14.

I may not be an elephant, but I have a long memory.

20 years ago I was graduating Fordham GBA with an MBA. I also have a law degree. And so, as a *Fordham* student, I decided one day to pop into Fordham Law's resource center.

I was literally thrown out. Apparently, even though you are a Fordham student, if you not a Fordham LAW student, you can't use the center. Apparently you will steal a *real* Fordham Law's job. When I spoke to the GBA powers-that-be, they shrugged their collective shoulders.

Pretty insecure, Fordham Law is.

It's refreshing to see someone stick up for professionalism in this industry...

199- nobody cares about your firm.

Hey 203. Go F yourself.

The issue is not whether this hurts Reed Smith or Fordham more. The issue is integrity. Fordham has it. Reed Smith does not.

193 - You missed the joke. Not the first time, I'm sure

206: Bahahaha!!! B/c it's all about INTEGRITY in this business, right??? [pissing myself]

To 198: just because RS canceled when they could have held sham interviews doesn't excuse canceling at a later date. Both canceling in this way and having sham interviews is unprofessional. Just because one is hard to catch and punish doesn't excuse unprofessional actions that are known. For exam, someone can be convicted of a crime because he confesses to it; that the person wouldn't be convicted if he hadn't have confessed doesn't mean you should not punish the guy.

Do you know who would really clear up this situation for me? A retired basketball player. In a related story, I have been wondering if the boat is taking on water - can anyone comment on that?

209 has to be a Fordham student, that might be the strangest analogy I've seen in some time. You do realize when criminals confess to their actions (or in your analogy, admit they don't have spots for dumbass Fordham law students) they usually get a LIGHTER sentence than those that won't admit their guilt (showing up on campus and not hiring).

Point: economy sucks, Fordham isn't a great school, Reed Smith is a sucky firm, but Fordham isn't doing any student or alumnus favors for pissing Reed Smith off.

Lat,

Just wanted to say it's refreshing to see some posts on ATL that have the pithy comments without the biased opinions we get from the new editor.

Reed Smith = TTT hacks. Good riddance for F.U.

i can see why it's irritating that they pulled out so late, but would you guys rather go waste your time at an interview where the employer has absolutely no intention to hire anyone?

Bravo fordham!

I hope we can change the tax rate on firms cancelling On Campus Interviews
- BHO

Comment removed by moderator.

You guys realize that Fordham is one of the top three law schools in New York? A firm without Fordham students is like a car without an engine. You're in trouble.

I am not a student at Fordham. I am at a T-10 school and have a fair amount of NY callbacks already, so this comment is not self-serving. This Dean is awesome. Finally time someone had some balls. I am all for banning firms who do sleazy stuff from OCI. Way to go Fordham.

Good for Fordham! This particular dean deserves a medal, about time someone calls out these firms for what they are -- scumbags

- not Fordham law student/ alumn

I like the idea of Firms finally getting their ass handed to them.....

Comment removed by moderator.

To 211: I agree, it was a strange analogy. My apologies for that. My point was that if a firm doesn't something wrong, it isn't excusable just because the firm could have done something worse, such as wasting students' time without no intention to hire them.

- 209

218- proud Fordham grad here, but don't get carried away.

218, RS barely has any Fordham grads as it is. They may end up in trouble but it won't be due to a lack of an FU presence. Besides, this ban isn't going to stop students from applying directly to the firm.

Let's all be realistic here... this will probably be all but forgotten in a year or two. RS will apologize for being jerks, the Dean will accept b/c more firms on campus is better for the students. In the end, neither the firm nor the school will suffer much from a little time off.

its like watching retards scuffle

Reed Smith's San Francisco office did the same thing at USC's OCI -- pulled out after the interview schedule was released. It was a bummer to have wasted a bid, but would have been worse to waste 20 minutes in an interview when they had no intention of hiring any USC students...

135 - They already are.

parent of a fordham law grad here...totally agree with the dean's response and respect him and the school all the more for it. maybe they lose 3 placings over the next 5 years, so what? how can you teach ethics with a straight face when you turn a blind eye to this law firm's snotty attitude?

Can anyone comment on how Reed Smith's New York office is doing?

Law schools should continue to do this for all of the reasons mentioned in the previous posts. Additionally, in two months, law schools should ban firms that participate in OCI, but fail to make any offers. SEND A MESSAGE!!!

Shame on you Gregory Jordan!!! I would have expected better from a Bethany alum . . . . GO BISON!

8 points to review:

1.fordham is not that good of a law school and doesn't deserve to be ranked in top 50
2.fordham rank will drop in next few years as in response to gaming of rankings system
3.fordham rank should drop
4.many firms will higher fewer fordham students but decided to stay in oci (wait to see how bad offer numbers are this year)
5.i like the treanor response but it's pretty stupid (nothing good to come from it and it will only lower fordham in the view of perspective employers)
6.dumb move, really dumb move to publicly hit a law firm, dumb, dumb, dumb move
7.any fordham students or grads that feel good about this are foolish and lack judgment (feels good at first but think about what was done)
8.who really is unprofessional here, fordham?

If they're clearly not going to hire your students, why not take the opportunity to make a point?

#233 would you like to articulate how you came to these conclusions? so mature of you to call those of us who hold opposing views to yours "foolish" and "lacking in judgment". are you an obama health plan supporter? i am 229

233,

nothing in your numbers 1-7 was unprofessional on Fordham's part, so your #8 wasn't exactly the icing that your unpersuasive cake needed.

Fordham will be in the top 20 within 3 years of its new campus being built.

233=Cardozo student

I have enjoyed all of the "hoo-rah!" responses from the student gallery.

Listen kids, the boom is over and firms are back to where they probably should be: not giving a crap about you. You will leave law school with almost zero preparedness for life as a cog in the Big Law wheel, your GPA/class rank will mean nothing anymore and your ideals even less. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.

234. the only point that was made was that firms should not recruit at fordham law school unless they are100 percent sure they will hire. otherwise bad things can happen like a dean sending out emails. it is one thing to say what you feel to make a point and another to hurt or potentially hurt the careers of the students.

236. fordham top 20? no need to respond to that statement

is fordham ranked number 1? i thought not. even if they were it would be a foolish move.

237.if i was a cardozo student i'd have a better chance at getting a job this year than a fordham student

i like the treanor response but it was shortsighted and foolish. i do not know everything behing the e-mail. did reed smith send out a press release stating they were not recruiting at fordham at treanor responded? did other firms decide not to hire fordham students but are going through the oci motions just to do it, and treanor doesn't want more to pull out like reed smith? there are many unanswered questions but his public response is not a good thing for students or alums. feels good to say to make a point but poor decision in the end.

Do law firms hire law students or do law schools hire law students? Bashing law firms in this economy is not the smartest placement tactic.

206. if fordham has integrity than why was there a mass email?

Punishes the students, not the law firm. Also, the firm can still hire as many fordham students as it wants, it just can't do OCI. Anyway, it can fill up as many summer classes as it wants and wouldn't even notice the missing Fordham students. I guess the Fordham dean would rather the firm come to OCI and waste everyone's time by not asking a single student for a callback. Those are firms the Dean should be upset about.

He should ban all the firms from recruiting there. That'll show 'em!

Absolutely hilarious move by Fordham. Good for them. The more law firm partners are given the middle finger, the better.

It's hard to take 233's criticism of Fordham seriously when he/she both failed to provide any justification for anything he/she said and spelled "hire," "higher." Come on now.

Way to go Dean Treanor!

233/239:

You do realize that you're simply factually incorrect when discussing the hiring potential of Fordham v. Cardozo students. This isn't an opinion-based question: it is simply fact, numbers-wise, that more Fordham students are, and were (this Summer), employed by big-law firms than Cardozo students and that this didn't have to do with class-size, as a higher proportion of the Fordham class was employed by biglaw.

Your uneducated anti-Fordham bias is clear. Fordham may have the worst facilities of any law school, the only real argument one should use to attack it, but its students are of high quality, better than those at Cardozo or any NY school not named Columbia and NYU.

Good for Reed Smith. It takes gumption to be at the beck and call of BigLaw/Banks/the Man....way to not sell yourselves short.../set a precedent that law schools and their students shouldn't be dicked around. undergrad institutions should do this as well since various employers are pulling the same shit.

Props to Dean Treanor. Reed Smith is a has been that never really was.

Like Ali G would say, RESPEK.

CUPCAKES!

Go Fordham, @!#$ Reed Smith!!!

Don't you get it? Reed Smith has NO JOBS to offer this fall, for students at Fordham or elsewhere. Like all but a few law firms (truly, your "TTT" designations have become meaningless in this economic climate), they are struggling to figure out what to do with the associates still on the payroll after lay-offs and don't want to go through the motions of interviewing another 20-40 hopeful law students who have no chance of being hired. It's a waste of time for all concerned. Even if RS does OCI at Columbia, Harvard, NYU - wherever - they probably won't be giving many call-backs and will extend even fewer offers for summer.

No one knows when the economy will turn around to the extent necessary to impact law firms whose deals have evaporated and clients can't pay, and the idea of stacking up classes of deferred associates is repugnant to all. The world has turned, and the OCI "rules" from 2-3 years ago are meaningless to law firms struggling to survive.

Um, #253....did Reed Smith barely figure that out last week? The economic downturn is nothing new. They should have announced their withdrawal BEFORE students wasted their bids.

251 is spot on! CUPCAKES!!

Reed Smith can hire Fordham students and Fordham students can send their resumes to Reed Smith. Fordham is simply not going to make the process easy by having Reed Smith recruit on-campus for the next five years. Reed Smith made clear that it was having a 2010 summer class, that it would deign to do OCI at other schools, but not at Fordham. It's the firm's prerogative, but the timing of the pull-out of Fordham's OCI was total bullshit. Fordham's reaction seems fair to me.

Good for the Dean. Reed Smith totally sucks. they are the rudest bunch of a**holes in the profession. They totally destroyed Sachnoff & Weaver in chicago and, I'm sure, all the other firms they bs'd into "merging " with them. Pray for the day when Hell on Earth ReedSmith FINALLY goes under.
Yeah, Gregg Jordan, we hate you.

Reed Smith rebuttal:

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/08/fordham_law_v_reed_smith_reed.php

RS Chicago = Asswipes

253, I can't believe it took 252 posts for someone to get it. Reed Smith looked at who they have, who they have in the pipeline (note to the oblivious - accept rates are going through the roof, so the baseline is changing and firms are ending up with many more incoming associates from prior classes than they expected just when they don't need them), and where the firm is. Then they decided to cut back on recruiting.

Were they supposed to interview people they're not going to hire? Hire people they don't have the work for to make Fordham feel good (and maybe just fire some associates on the back end)? Almost every firm I know (and yes, I'm a partner on our hiring committee) would rather manage intake than cut the people they already have - and the ones who see this as an opportunity for some Goldman-style purge of the bottom 10% are not the ones you want to work for. Yes, it would have been good to figure out where they were earlier (as we did), but especially if things aren't going well for them there's a natural tendency to wait in hopes they'll bounce back by the time fall rolls around. If that didn't happen, there are no good options left.

Look, it's not good news for Reed Smith or for the students. It's a terrible time to be looking for a job, and I have genuine sympathy for everyone stuck doing it now. However, I have a hard time getting morally outraged by Reed Smith's acting like, well, you know, a business.

Reasonably-speaking, the net effect of Dean Treanor's ban on Reed Smith and Fordham students will be negligible. The act was obviously mostly symbolic in nature and designed not only to challenge the often cavalier attitudes of BigLaw but also to assert Fordham's reputation.

We can debate all day about whether Fordham classifies as an "elite" law school, but in the end the statistics are very informative. While Fordham may not have the greatest, facilities, amenities, creature comforts, historical reputation, and library when compared to other schools it ranks at the top (in top 10 of all law schools when it comes to representation in the top law firms
http://law.fordham.edu/about-fordham/5247.htm).
This is presumably a more important consideration then the number and quality of classrooms.

Coming from some of the most elite undergraduate institutions Fordham Law students have a great deal of confidence in their abilities. The Fordham administration, especially under Dean Treanor, also insists on the competitiveness and quality of the school. By defying a firm like Reed Smith, Fordham has asserted itself, making it clear that the school will not and should be treated in an unprofessional manner, but rather should be given deference commiserate with its quality.

oops. i meant commensurate not commiserate in 261.

No one cares what Fordham things. Students there need jobs. The school bit the hand that feeds them. You can hate on Reed Smith all you want, but there is not one student at the school that would not be grateful for an offer from the firm in this market and at least for the next few years. Sure, some students might have the good fortune of having other offers and will turn them down, but this is the exception not the rule. The Dean may think it was a brave/bold move, but all it really does is screw his students.

This is really silly on Treanor's part. He's not defying R/S, he's defying economic reality. I'm sure R/S could care less.