I remember this post. Next week I follow it up with an analysis of how the newlywed Baker Botts associate has a claim for intentional infliction of emotioal distress, after I find out later that she's black. It's one of the prouder moments of my internet almost-lawyer career.

I'm glad I don't work at Baker Botts. These guys can forget about recruiting at Hofstra for the next decade or so.

getting rid of people who have alot of hours shows how firm politics, favorites, and connections affect the layoff decisions. those who post that firm layoffs only get rid of the slow or bad workers really do not know what goes on at large firms.

They ruined an associate's honeymoon? No class.

Hey, future Elie, can you tell us how you felt in 2017 when the UN awarded you the Citizen of the World award for your landmark legislation, "The International Good Samaritan Punishment Act"?

I went to Harvard.

While it is difficult to be in more than one
place at a time, I suppose that if it is my job
to help law firms provide severance to
associates, I can split myself.

Why, oh why, would you axe an associate on pace for 2200 hours and blame the economic climate?!?!?

Wow, great coverage.

How did they manage to reach her in Cambodia? All possibilities point to something ridiculous going on: (i) she was required to check her work email from Siam Reap, on her honeymoon, (ii) she was required to bring her blackberry on her honeymoon, (iii) she was staying in a hotel and was required to provide the phone number of all places she was staying on her honeymoon before she left.

My firm certainly would not require any of these to take place - your honeymoon is your own fucking time, no matter how important some dipshit partner thinks her matter is. Interesting view of the management culture of the firm we're getting here, if the story is true.

10% of associates in one office? That's a fifth-Latham layoff.

Shit-canning an associate on a honeymoon is a new low.

At least BB doesn't lick my nuts, unlike Orrick DC.

They can put a man on the moon, but they cannot find Obama's birth certificate. These are troubled times we live in. Best wishes to all those who were laid off.

They couldn't wait till she was BACK from her honeymoon? Mega-tacky.

Looks like Butchered Baker lacks a Rainmaker

I had to get a passport and fly first class
in order to get to Cambodia, but Baker Botts
told me to spare no expense while providing
severance.

V&e should just merge w/ BB, and then jack rates up by 10% in Texas and in energy work.

Honeymoons to Cambodia are a dime a dozen. The only proper way to celebrate a marriage is to sojourn in the Seychelles via chartered jet--something I bet this sap of an associate is unable to appreciate from the confines of her "economy" seat.

Shearman laid off one associate on her birthday, and another just before his wedding. Don't think that classiness ever enters into the equation.

At least she wasn't having her uterus scraped when they gave her the news.

Why does Texas suck so bad?

Future Elie,

I think you're misremembering next week's post. The more likely scenario is that high performing white male associates are being laid off to reduce the risk of discrimination law suits and to show Baker Botts' commitment to the Diversity God.

Spare me all the touchy-feely, hold the firm hostage to make sure the one associate doesn't have a bad day crap. They have a business to run and are not beholden to someone they are cutting loose for cryin out loud.

You people need to put on your adult undies and deal.

21 - yeah but she was in the midst of getting a baby put in her

Elie, you slob. You say congrats to the groom. You say best wishes to the bride.

If you are hot like a certain Katten NYC attorney, your pussy pass can protect you from a lay off even as those around you are getting axed left right and center.

Who in their right mind would honeymoon in Cambodia? Enjoy reminiscing over the heady "killing fields" era? Maybe she'll plan her next college reunion in Dachau?

merely a drop in the bucket

Steps aside PE -- Future Elie has taken your throne as most entertaining commenter!

28 - would you avoid a trip to Japan on account of what happened in the 1940s? Loosen up

24 - The reason you're having such a difficult time imagining how awful it would be to get laid off on your honeymoon is because you've never had sex before.

This post is addressed to commenter #19:

Chartered jets are for destitutes. I own my plane. And pilot.

29, are you supposed to be Dana Latham?

so if i have a callback with BBNY should I bring this up? will the diversity card save me?

Give BB a break. You think the managing partner or the managing committee knew that the associate was on her honeymoon? Hell, they probably didn't even know what she looked like. They probably never even heard her name. They almost certainly didn't know she was getting married or on her honeymoon (even though she probably sent announcements to every single BB partner).

I know quite a few people that currently work at BB and many more that left after 3-5 years. I'm a big fan of private enterprise and limited government. But if private enterprises are being led by people who lay-off employees *on the phone* while they are on their *honeymoon* in *China*, well, maybe I should rethink my position.

I have a hard time believing BB actually does what it says it does: "We are proud of who we are and what we do. Our values and culture are very important to us. "

It's a honeymoon in Cambodia
It's tough kid, but it's life...

I concur with #11.

Latham's laid off 40-50% of the associates in the NY office. No firm can touch Latham when it comes to layoffs, especially first year layoffs. Baker Botts just is not as poorly managed as Latham.

34 - I am Dana's identical twin brother, Edward. In my day, I was known as the "handsome Latham." Despite Dana's assertions to the contrary, I was running everything at the firm from behind the scenes.

Where is Wedding Watch!!!!?!

Umm . . .

Even "thought" the firm doesn't want you to know how many people it is letting go, our sources have been relentless in helping us expose the information.

Anyone?

I'm the OCI Director for Regent School of Law and based on this, I'm going to bar Baker Botts from recruiting at our school for the next decade.

37 - that's my favorite Guitar Hero song (to play, not to listen).

This pales in comparison to what my firm did - fired at least 5 women while they were out on or just as they were about to go on maternity leave.

I'm not saying that people should get a free pass because they are having a baby, but seriously, I consider that to be a true act of desperation by the firm.

The ship be sinking...

39, Edward Latham, what is it about layoffs, especially first year associate layoffs, that the managers of your firm enjoy so much?

39,

So you and Dana have been spending a lot of your time in hell hanging out with the Coudert Brothers? How the hell have they been?

The fact that the self-entitled associate in Cambodia was laid off brings a huge smile to my face!

48 = bitter perma-jobless TTT grad

41- get a life, I'm sure you type better.

Great work, Elie.

49 = worthless for even responding.

The laid off associate was honeymooning in Cambodia? So what? Why should she be treated differently from any of the others who were laid off (a nice word for 'get out of here, you're fired and won't be back"). The touchy-feely era of the American law business has ended; get used to being treated like at-will employees because that is exactly what you are, wherever you can afford (at least as of now) to honeymoon.

53

stfu. there is such a thing as class

Does anyone know how the Dallas office was affected?

I think more and more future associates will be vacationing in Colorado, and not Cambodia. I hear the mountains there are spectacular!

54,

"Class" and "biglaw" have nothing to do with each other. Been like that for a while now.

To those of you who do not think it is an employer's right to hire and fire at will and without government interference, I urge you to take a second look at the Contracts Clause in the U.S. Constitution.

If my brother Dana were alive today, he would say "help help, let me out of this tiny wooden box!" Buahahaha. Old joke. After that, he would most likely flick snuff bullets at me while lecturing me on the virtues of the free market. He always did get a certain rush from handing out pink slips. In his day, though, they were called "blue slips" out of fear of coming across as Marxist.

57

stfu

One of the Houston associates was a Harvard grad (but I think he failed the bar his first attempt...which in TX is pretty hard to do).

10.
Associates should not be taking vacations in their first 2 years of work.

Latham uses a materially higher leverage ratio than many other firms and bulks up associate ranks in a big way during each boom over the last 20+ years, followed immediately by mass firings in the ensuing contraction (whether the partners prefer to admit they're "layoffs" or not).

No, while everyone knows the global economy is contracting and this is causing problems everywhere, the problems at Latham are engineered - they systematically overhire, and then fire en masse, with economic cycles, much more so than other firms, and on purpose. To see people here defending the firm as though the partners felt bad about doing something again that they've done repeatedly, so that each of them could reap millions on average, is laughable. Be careful about drinking the Kool Aid - sometimes the hangover is fierce.

Layoffs in the BB Cambodia office?

55 -- 10-15 cut in Dallas

I've got a callback at BB NY (I know--good timing). What's it like?

Cuts in Austin?

Someone should have informed the associate of the bad news right before the wedding ceremony began. That would have been even more classy.

I agree with 53. Let's throw out all morality and treat each other like we hate each other.

http://austin.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2009/08/24/daily44.html?ed=2009-08-28&ana=e_du_pub

Not Baker Botts, but here are some cuts in Austin that need to be reported.

did something happen at Orrick DC that I missed???

During the downturn of the early 90s, a Thelen (then Reid & Priest partner) called a female associate that was visiting her deathly ill father in the hospital to fire her over the phone.

Same guy, although professing to be a caring individual, promised much of the NY office that they would all move together somewhere as a group. Meanwhile, he separately negotiated for a subgroup to go to Morgan Lewis.

True.

Any updates on Cooley's Round 2 of stealth layoffs?

EL-I urge you take a look at the Contracts Clause. It has nothing to do with at-will employment, which, as everyone knows, is a non-contractual relationship. How can a clause which protects contractual obligations have any bearing on a relationship with no contractual obligations? Fail.

71= RJR

Future Elie - hilarious. Today's first post made my day. Keep it up.

71 , 74 - do you know how that group is doing? seems like a lot of dead weight got brought along.

69 - thanks for the post. That is indeed big news.

I think ATL didn't post anything about it because it is well...reliable news and not subject to rumor and gossip

Informing the associate on honeymoon in Cambodia that she's being laid off has nothing to do with class. What's the big deal? There was a list of people, she was on it, and once they published it everyone was going to find out one way or the other. It's not the firm's fault that she was out of the country at that time -- better she be told directly than hear about it through the grapevine. If she deserves to work in biglaw, she should have the intestinal fortitude to handle information like this.

Plus now she can extend her honeymoon, rather than race back to fucking Houston only to be told she was out of a job.

Don't forget VE HOUSTON. The unemployment rate there is worse than Detroit, which is at 29%. Only 29% of associates have a job at VE!

DONT FORGET. VE OFFERED LESS THAN 1/2 class offers.

I don't find it too sad that a BB associate got laid off on her honeymoon, at least she has a husband that can support her. Try getting laid off the day your third child was born, and two weeks after you closed on your first home. Now that's sad.

79,
Just out of curiosity, how many of the last 20 or so posts dissing V&E are yours? Based on your comments I am pretty sure you are a particular summer who didn't get an offer here for a reason other than work performance. Please grow up. You know what you are writing is false. I can't imagine why you think anyone is still listening. Sigh. 2Ls take note. Loose cannons don't get offers. Surprise surprise.

What else do you expect from a disgusting law firm that once employed George W. Bush. Shame on this firm! Those who have treated these associates like this will be judged by God and Jesus. This firm will be gone in 14 months.

Baker Botts Dallas office laid off 11 associates this week: 3 corporate, 3 litigation, 3 IP and 2 real estate.

"Based on your comments I am pretty sure you are a particular summer who didn't get an offer here for a reason other than work performance."

81, What a bunch of total crap. What, are you a forensic expert in blog commenting? I hate constant complaining as much as the next guy, but to claim you can tell who a commenter is based on their bashing of a firm is utterly ridiculous. Yes, it might be the summer you're thinking of, but it just as easily could be any one of hundreds of people.

Not 79

Believe me, there are plenty of people unhappy with V&E, other than 79. I am also wondering why BB is getting so much bad press while V&E gets off scot-free, particularly with the (sometimes) numerous allegations of low offer rates, stealth layoffs, another round of firings in the works, etc. Definitely doesn't seem fair, particularly when BB has at least let these associates go with some measure of dignity by allowing them to claim that it was an economic-based layoff.

- Also Not 79.

Elie, it is presumptious to assume that the fired associate on her honeymoon married a man. You of all people should know that.

Recently laid off and considering a solo career? We're here to help! www.Goodsharks.com

Just saying the pattern of all caps and posting the same thing over and over again about offer rates is suspect. And frankly some of the post dialog did sound similar. But hey what do I know, perhaps there are 60 distinct posters set on insisting over and over again what the offer rate was. Makes more sense than one disgruntled person with a grudge, right? Of course it does. Of course.
-81

I can't help but wonder whether the whining BB and VE summers pulled offers from the firms with which they split. If so, what's the big problem? If not, quit crying about it and figure out what makes you so toxic that multiple firms passed on you. Fast.

There is a hot 8th (or higher) year associate at Baker Dallas - Did she get let go?

Not 79

So what was the final total of laid off attorneys?

Houston 12
Dallas 11
DC 7

That's 30. But what about

Austin ???
NY ???
Palo Alto ???

Can people in those offices please chime in?

85

V&E did not have a low offer rate this year (relatively). I don't understand your comment.

What were the offer rates at VE? I've heard 2/3rds in Houston and much higher than that in Dallas. Confirmation?

92...it was low enough to catch some criticism.

You associates are clueless. Sorry, but you don't go on a honeymoon for 2 or 3 weeks as a young associate in these economic times. Go to Hawaii for a week like everyone else. Cambodia? Seriously?

71, 74 and 76- Bob Reger did that? What a putz. Even worse than the shitbags in SF like Weitzel.

Baker Botts partners are scumbags. This we already knew.

BB NY sucks.

92 - My comment is fairly simple to understand. For the past couple of weeks, there have been multiple comments about V&E's alleged low offer rate, yet there have been no posts about it on this site. Instead, there have just been repeated complaints from one or more persons about the low offer rate and then rebuttals by people supposedly at the firm saying that the offer rate is X out of 70-something associates. The number always seems to change. I myself was told that the offer rate in one of the branch offices was only about 60%.

Solution? Ask the firm to confirm the numbers, post it here, and put the whole thing to bed. If they won't confirm, well, we've now seen three bad posts about BB and ATL admitted that the firm wouldn't confirm some information, so post it anyway. If, as you claim, the offer rate really isn't low, than V&E has nothing to fear by a post on ATL. If it is low, then at least there's a forum for discussion and people won't have to post about it in other threads.

- 85

32 - Really, your mother enjoyed sex with me, especially with your dad sitting in the corner watching.

VE and BB are shitbird firms. You deserve what you get if you take a job with these loser firms.

how are the regulatory folks faring at bb and ve?

bb energy is dead

103 -- transactional or regulatory?

IMHO both. For a shop built on energy in a time when energy is hot, there should be more work than there is.

Rumor has it that some of the associates interviewing at HLS this week were laid off in the middle of the day. A student said that his interviewer came into the room and said, "Sorry if I seem frazzled, we just laid off a lot of people. You're going to read about it on Above the Law."

I just wish these firms wouldn't dick around with students. If they're not gonna have a summer class, don't come to Harvard. HLS has already said they won't take retaliatory action against firms.

man those V&E people defending the firm sure have a lot of free time on their hands to spend on ATL...

General Electric must have been in its own crappy economy for the last twenty years. They would "lay off" the bottom 10% every year for the last two decades!

If you're at a law firm at which you personally cannot point to at least 20 people who don't belong there and only got a job b/c of the bubble when firms needed literate humans to do DD, then you're one of the 20.

In z weird way, these lay offs may increase morale. There's nothing worse for a high performer than to contstantly look around and see all the morons who shouldn't be making 160k -- in this economy or any other.

Most of the BB bashing is from people at VE. BB and VE are the two best firms in the state, and have been for years. They work opposite each other on deals all the time and there is a rivalry. Kids usually choose between them based on culture, which is very different.

- Former VE

109, I would suspect that most of the BB bashing is from students who didn't get offers. Just a hunch.

79 here. I'm not the "LOOSE CANNON" you are thinking of. That's your mom.

You, sir, are an idiot.

VE is a festering TTT. Down the drain. HTH. Furthermore, VE is the most idiotic firm. In the worst economy in years, it has the idea to "HIRE" THE BIGGEST SUMMER CLASS EVAR and then give a 35% offer rate. If you dispute that rate, then why don't you correct it with some "evidence" of a higher rate. Do you know what that is? Or are you too busy examining blogs for "loose cannons"?

I'll wait until NALP if you can't produce a list of people who got offers. NALP will prove me right as long as the firm is honest.

What a joke that firm is. Biggest class in the worst economy. All the other Texas firms at least put some thoughts into the size of the class. And they bought the summers lunch more than once a week.

111, you want people to believe your offer rate claims (with no more "evidence" to back them up than the claims of higher offer rates put forth by others) when you can't even get the number of lunches provided correct?

I'm sorry, but "4" and "1" look very little alike both visually and conceptually. Of course, if you're stupid enough to confuse "1" and "4," it's possible you got lost in the hallways often enough to miss 3 of the weekly lunches. Or maybe you couldn't figure out how to work the elevator or use the stairs. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume something along those lines rather than intentionally lying to exact some kind of petty revenge for what would in either case be a completely justified no offer.

any word on the stealth layoffs going on now at SkaddenDC??

Any words on layoffs in Chicago based firms?

Avoid BB if you are a lateral as there is a high probability you will be among the first to be shown the door when things go south in your practice area.

79 here.

The real 79. The NUMBER OF LUNCHES that VE bought each week was anywhere between 2-4, if you count catering in chicken breast and green beans. And don't forget that the firm is suffering cash flow problems so much that the big event for the summer was "bowling night."

BUT, WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO BRING EVIDENCE FORWARD, WHEN THE BURDEN IS ON VE to show that they didn't no offer more than 1/2 of the class. That number is the consensus. Even if you take the more generous number to VE (66%), that still is pretty pathetic, especially when VE has ruined the summers and pulled a fast one over 80 summers, excluding the 1Ls. At least they get a chance to have a productive and meaningful summer.

So IN CONCLUSION. ENJOY your TTT firm.

Um. Burden of proof on person making the claim. Not only are we not allowed by firm policy to give some random arse online hard "evidence" but more importantly why are we obligated to disprove the one angry commentator who can't even remember his lunch schedule? And you have already informed us that you won't believe the NALP numbers anyway since if the numbers disagree with your version of reality then your stipulation is that the firm lied. What then? Are you to spend the next year requesting V&E publish exact names of offers and nonoffers with reasons why for all just to satisfy the morbid curiousity of one individual who can't accept the truth and has to increase the nonoffers number just to compensate for his own feelings of disappointment? Honestly, this is absurd. You are behaving in a absurd manner. Definition of loose cannon.

Oh and claiming to be two different "79" posters but both posters using all caps and the "TTT" language. Good try, but really, how stupid do you think the readers are, not to see the blatent similarities? Never mind. Don't answer that. You've already provided quite a demonstration.
- 92

I think 92/117 and 79/whatever should just get a hotel room.

Let's not forget what V&E did to returning 1Ls this summer -- cancelling the summer program after July 17th, and making the announcement of this new policy in freakin April.

The real 79 HERE.

You have terrible reading skillz. EPIC FAILURE= U. Although I didn't say there was 1 lunch a week, I'll respond to your TTTERRIBLE COMMENT. It's reproduced below.

"
I'm sorry, but "4" and "1" look very little alike both visually and conceptually. Of course, if you're stupid enough to confuse "1" and "4," it's possible you got lost in the hallways often enough to miss 3 of the weekly lunches.

"
THREE OF THE WEEKLY LUNCHES?

Are you saying that there were only "weekly" lunches?

Can you confirm that VE bought lunch 2-4 times a week like I said?

Can you confirm that VE had the largest class in TEXAS in the worst economy in years?

Can you confirm that VE screwed the returning 1Ls?

Can you confirm that BB has gotten bad press while VE, a clearly inferior firm, has gotten none?

Can you confirm that you are defending your TTT firm instead of billing hours b/c you have no work to do?

Can you confirm that you would still defend your firm after they give you a pink slip?

Can you confirm that you are the TTT VE hiring partner?

Can you confirm that you are a douchebag?

HTH.

79 HERE AGAIN.

BY THE WAY. I AM NOT THE "LOOSE CANNON" you are thinking of. Trust me on this. So, don't disparage the name of some summer, whose career you've already hurt enough.

hth.

I also summered with V&E Houston. The economy is terrible. It's hurting everyone. Everyone knew or should have known things were different this past summer. It's unfortunate that it happened during our summer, but there is nothing that can be done about that.

Even if V&E had brought in a smaller Houston class, there is no way to know who would have made the cut and who wouldn't have. Sure, not making the cut may have led to different split strategies, but the fact remains that other Texas firms haven't proven to be any safer for getting an offer. As the still-developing BB news illustrates, other firms may very well have been even less safe.

So please, give it a rest. You had your shot just like everyone else who summered there. We all seemed to enjoy ourselves during the program. It's only now, with a mouthful of sour grapes, that people seem upset that the firm cut back on lavish event or "only" fed us 4 times a week. Had they kept the standard program, you'd probably be bashing them for irresponsible spending or some such other nonsense. You can always nitpick and complain, and that's what you seem to be doing.

I don't know the final offer rate, but the majority of those I've interacted with received offers. It's a small sample size, but it leads me to disbelieve that only 30-something offers were given. And hey, if you hate V&E so much, you should be glad about your no offer. They did you a favor, right?

~a fellow Houston summer

120,

What was the name of the attorney at V&E that drowned your puppy? Sheesh.

The tipster that said "the firm apparently doesn't have any loyality to anything except the dollar" has to realize by now that this is how it is at all firms. These firms only care about money. Bottom line. It doesn't matter who gets hurt along the way, good workers, hard workers, loyal wokers, it is ALL about the almighty dollar. As for those employed at these firms, here today and gone tomorrow. Very sad.
Good luck to all.

This is sad indeed. Hopefully BB wakes up and realizes a number of its newly minted partners add nothing of value to the firm in the current economic climate. Billing 2300+ per year plus being a solid / good lawyer during boom times should not be good enough for partnership. Where are the clients?

I just came back from my honeymoon. Will VE fire me? Oh wait. That's Baker Botts. VE never gave me an offer because they brought on too many summers.

* Bills Hours *

Back in the early 1990s, Kirkland fired an employee by telling her over the telephone that she was being fired while she was recuperating from gall bladder surgery.

29/39 failed miserably

V&E does stealth layoffs and then says they were for performance.

V&E fucking SUCKS.

V&E gets a free pass from this website and most other websites. Why is this? They engage in pretty terrible behavior and the associates suffer.

115 -- Avoid BB if you are a lateral as there is a high probability you will be among the first to be shown the door when things go south in your practice area.

This is already happening at other firms. Last in, first out -- not confined to BB, sadly.

131 --- I understand LIFO is standard fare at most biglaw firms. The degree of LIFO at BB, however, has been astounding. Avoid BB as a transfer.