Notes from the Breadline: To Be On Your Own (Part III)
Ed. note: Welcome to the latest installment of “Notes from the Breadline,” a column by a laid-off lawyer in New York. Prior columns are collected here. You can reach Roxana St. Thomas by email (at roxanastthomas@gmail.com), follow her on Twitter, or find her on Facebook.
Dear Lat,
Thank you so much for the back-to-school care package you sent when I started classes at Solo Practice University! I must ask: where did you find the Wonder Twins pencil box? I absolutely adore it, and I love the Trapper Keeper (and the puffy stickers with googly eyes!) you picked out. I am also crazy about the Dukes of Hazzard lunchbox, and the note you included was very thoughtful. (I’m not sure that “Knock ‘em dead!” is appropriate advice for a lawyer, but why split hairs?)
I’ll address, seriatim, the questions you posed in your enclosed letter. Regarding your first question (“What are you going to wear on your first day of class??”), I had a hard time deciding between the plaid skirt, button-down shirt, and penny loafers you helped me pick out when we went back-to-school shopping, and something a little more casual, like the Guns ‘n Roses t-shirt and holey jeans you turned your nose up at when I was modeling outfits. (I believe your exact words were “If you think you’re leaving the house dressed like that, young lady, think again,” and “If I put a 7-11 hot dog and a Slurpee in your hand, you’d look like Britney Spears - on a bad day.”)
But that, my fashion-forward friend, is the beauty of Solo Practice University: I don’t have to leave my house to go to class. Susan Cartier Liebel, the headmistress of Solo Practice University, calls it “carpet commuting,” but since, as you know, I live in true Manhattan-style squalor and thus do not have a carpet, I simply call it “convenient.” In any event (and because I also do not have an air conditioner), I opted for a tank top with a large coffee stain on the front, and shorts. Though I was certain my mother would pop out of the closet, smack me on the back of the head, and remind to “dress for the job you want,” she did not make an appearance. The cats, however, channeling her disapproval, looked at me with disdain.
As for your second question, things here at Solo Practice University, or “SPU,” as we call it on campus, are going well. The classes that SPU has to offer are - at this point - too numerous to list here, but as you know, they are divided four general areas: Substantive Law, Marketing and Management, Technology, and Work/Life Balance. In fact, the course content is so voluminous that I spent a few undignified minutes wringing my hands, uncertain about where to begin. (Again, the beauty of SPU is that no one can observe, firsthand, your minor meltdowns.)
No, Lat: there’s no need to start gathering piles of Zoloft for my next care package (although a little Valium never hurt anyone - let’s talk later). It turns out that my generalized anxieties, and the sense of being overwhelmed by the nuts and bolts of solo practice, were a valuable object lesson. Many people, Susan told me, are derailed by their fear of solo practice. One of her goals, therefore, was simply to “demystify” the reality of lawyering without a net. This led me to a minor, but useful, epiphany about one of my perceived barriers to solo practice: my fear of commitment.
I know, I know, we’ve discussed my commitmentphobia many times, in many contexts. You always say the same thing — “Just try it, Roxana! You might be surprised!” — and I say, “I might be surprised if I found a giant sow in the middle of my living room, but it doesn’t mean I would like it.” Then you stroke your chin thoughtfully and say, “Yes, but think of the delicious sandwiches you could make!” and get a glazed look in your eyes, mumbling, “Mmm, bacon.”
My point is that, in this instance, your wise judgment is spot on. I have been apprehensive about the notion of solo practice because it seems like an endeavor that would require a higher level of commitment than I could muster. But, I realized, exploring this option doesn’t require much more than an open mind at this juncture. It’s not as though I have to quit my job search, or start buying office equipment; it’s not even like law school, where, once you commit to taking a class, you are generally obligated to stick it out for the semester. It only requires a small leap of faith … sort of like diving into a swimming pool filled with marshmallows, or parachuting onto a landscape made entirely of Nerf. In short, even if this venture turns out to be a giant sow, it will, at the very least, provide some sustenance. (Of course, I realize that my freedom to experiment is a greatly facilitated by Susan’s largesse, and her willingness to let me ‘audit’ classes, but SPU does offer affordable, low-commitment enrollment options. Prices begin at $75 for one month, although you can also sign up for a quarterly or yearly ‘term.’)
After calming my fear of commitment, I thought about the other sources of my general apprehension. First, there is the thorny issue of substantive law. As a solo, would I know enough to handle a client’s case, from start to finish, if it involved an area with which I was unfamiliar? People - individuals - typically do not present small or solo practitioners with the same kinds of legal problems that a big company brings to the doorstep of a big law firm. And, second, how the hell does this solo thing work? Specifically, other than making business cards, standing outside the courthouse wearing a sandwich board that says “Hire me please,” and sitting at your desk with a bunch of newly sharpened pencils, waiting for the phone to ring, how does one embark on a solo career?
Well, Lat, it turns out that there are no courses at SPU entitled “Reassurance for Neurotic Lawyers,” or “Answers to Your Stupidest Questions.” So I started with a class suggested by Susan, called “Personal Injury 101.” I know what you’re thinking; personal injury is not exactly in my wheelhouse. It does, however, present some interesting possibilities. Remember when we watched “Erin Brockovich”? The personal injury lawyer in that movie was practically a hero (even if Erin did do a lot of the legwork)! And, yes, I remember when we read “A Civil Action” in our book club; I know that things didn’t work out so well for Jan Schlichtmann (who lost his home and had to file for bankruptcy), but at least the people of Woburn, Massachusetts, are no longer imbibing a daily cocktail of trichloroethylene and bathing in tannery runoff.
In any event, Personal Injury 101 is taught by James Reed, a solo practitioner in Elmira, New York (the “Soaring Capital of America!”) who has been practicing as a plaintiff’s P.I. lawyer for 22 years. Reed (who welcomed us to call him “Jim,” unlike those stodgy law school instructors who make you sit in your assigned seat and call them “Professor”) assured us in the introductory lecture that he would “start at the beginning,” in order to make the class user-friendly for people who don’t currently have an injury law practice. Perfect! I thought, pen poised over a blank piece of paper, ready to take notes. Personal Injury law for dummies!
Fortuitously, Jim quickly turned to one of the topics at the root of my solo anxiety: what to do while you’re waiting for the phone to ring. FYI, Lat: updating your Facebook status to read, “________ is waiting for the phone to ring. Call me!” was not among his suggestions. Rather, he advised “working on your systems,” which means, among other things, thinking about “how you’ll work on your [conjectural] cases, from start to finish.”
A good place to start is with your intake form, which your [conjectural] clients will fill out when they come to your office. Jim helpfully posted his own intake form on the class website, but urged us to personalize and adapt when creating a form of our own. From there, he moved on to the other forms we’d need for a file, such as written retainer agreements, medical authorization forms, and releases that allow you to get employee and student information. I have to confess, Lat: although Jim went on to explain, in great detail, how to set up an intake file, it was surprisingly non-deadening. To the contrary, listening to his lecture gave me the same feeling I had in my first year Civil Procedure class, when, despite the intricacy of the subject matter, every piece of dry minutia felt like a tool that would help me actually be a lawyer, rather than simply theorizing about “the law.” It was oddly exciting, in a dorky way.
The rest of the class was devoted to other practical considerations. Jim covered technology, such as case management systems and billing software; marketing materials, including websites and blogs; and professional resources, like bar associations, list-servs, and CLE. Finally, he talked about networking, with lawyers and “related professionals” in the health care field.
The only time I doubted Jim was when he suggested going down to the courthouse, finding an experienced practitioner, and offering to “carry his bag,” by helping out on a trial. Though my experience with such things is far from vast, the last time I was on trial I became intimately acquainted with the floor in my office (on which I often fell asleep) and the after-hours cleaning staff (who were kind enough to vacuum around me on these occasions, although one time Maria, the cleaning lady, asked me in broken English whether I “drink too much at dinner”). In other words, trial doesn’t leave much time for anything else. Who pays your bills while you’re carrying the proverbial bag?
After Jim’s class, I had an urge to go out to the quad, toss around a Frisbee, and watch stoners play Hacky Sack. Alas; the virtual campus does not afford us such simple pleasures, so I dutifully went to the gym and watched C-SPAN, like you suggested. Actually, I’m lying; I went outside and bummed a cigarette from the super, and then watched an episode of Weeds. But after that, I returned diligently to SPU, where my Jury Selection class was getting underway.
Jury Selection is taught by Anne Reed, a trial lawyer and jury consultant from Milwaukee. I must say that, if I were a juror, I would instantly be enthralled by Anne; she has a gentle, hypnotic confidence that made me want to jump up and shout “Not guilty! Guilty! Whatever she says her client is!” Her first lesson, entitled “Relax: The myth of accuracy and why you don’t have to worry so much about voir dire,” focused on the common, though misguided, tendency of lawyers to “pursue the perfect juror,” and in doing so to forget or overlook the fundamentals of jury selection. She filled us in on some of those fundamentals, gave a brief overview of basic juror psychology, and discussed the importance of courtroom ‘optics,’ or presenting yourself (and your client) to a jury. After her class, I felt markedly more relaxed, and less worried about voir dire.
Next, I headed across campus for Stefanie Devery’s class on The Basics of a Real Estate Transaction. Stefanie is a real estate lawyer in Mineola, New York, and although she assured us that real estate practice is typically “non-adversarial,” her bold self-assurance made me reasonably certain that I would not want to mess with her. In her first lecture, Stefanie covered some of the basics of real estate practice: word-of-mouth advertising, setting fees, and client relations. In the second lecture, she delved into the substance of residential contracts, including some specifics of contracts for newly constructed homes, fixtures, and mortgage contingencies. Again, I was struck by how … doable it all seemed. As I left campus, having decided to swing by Facebook before heading home for the day, I realized that Susan’s explanation wasn’t just marketing hoo-hah; the process of solo practice was, in fact, being demystified.
So, Lat, I already know what you’re going to ask: am I spokesmodeling for SPU? The simple answer is “no.” To be fair, there are things that I don’t like about it, though they are relatively minor. Not all of the course information and classes are available on demand, and sometimes the lectures are presented as slide decks accompanied only by disembodied audio; in these instances, staying attentive requires a double dose of Ritalin. I haven’t quite figured out how the study groups work, and whether they are helpful. And the food here sucks.
But, on balance, I have to say that I’m impressed. If I were to try to gather as much information about as many practice areas as are covered at SPU, I wouldn’t know where to begin. I wouldn’t know where to look for it, and I probably wouldn’t know what to do with much of it. Jim (the personal injury guy) told us in the first lecture that he had encountered a steep learning curve when he went into solo practice, and that his goal was to reduce significantly the learning curve that we, as nascent or potential solos, would face. I like learning from experienced lawyers, which conjures the old-fashioned - but effective — method of apprenticeship that legal education once was. I like the plethora of acquired wisdom, gathered into a neat package, that SPU offers, and the accessibility of the instructors. I like the sense of possibility that comes with access to the aggregated knowledge of several dozen practitioners.
I’m not sure whether I’m sold on the idea of solo practice, but I’m going to stay at SPU for a while. Hey! Here’s an idea: how about the Law Offices of St. Thomas & Lat? How does that sound? Okay, fine — Lat & St. Thomas. What do you think?
Take some time to mull it over, and we can talk about it when you come to visit for parents’ weekend. In the meantime, I’ll be waiting for the next care package. Can you include more of those cookies you made me, and another case of microwave popcorn? Also, I’d like a Bob Marley poster for my room, and a new beanbag chair. (I won’t tell you what the cats did to the one you bought me, but let it suffice to say: it’s a good thing it wasn’t filled with ball bearings, or I would have had a serious tort on my hands.) Finally, do you think there’s room in the ATL budget for your pal Roxy to get a nice massage? Learning to carry the proverbial bag is hard work, and Anne says that I should relax.
XOXO,
Roxana
______________________________________________________________________
Roxana St. Thomas is a laid-off lawyer living in New York. You can reach her by email (at roxanastthomas@gmail.com), follow her on Twitter, or find her on Facebook. And check out the Notes from the Breadline t-shirt store here.




Comments
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Frankly, Roxana, I don't give a damn
First again, suckers!
Roxanna, STFU... please
Ouch! Epic failure hurts.
-2
When I was in your position, I went to Los Angeles and applied to do a porn shoot. You might have better luck trying that than flushing money down the toilet at this Solo Practice University.
Yeah if you just listen to Solo “hang out a shingle” marketers like Alexis Martin Neely or Susan Cartier Liebel (note, they do not practice law, they make a living from cheerleading for Solo practice)…..you will soon be working 3 hours a day from your beachfront condo practicing Surfing Law on Waikiki Beach.
From what I have observed, hanging a shingle is not too far removed from hanging yourself.
So, this column is basically a verbose advertisement for Solo Practice University?
Hey Roxana, I hear there are other legal markets outside of Manhattan. I also have it on good authority that there are other firms to work for outside of the V100.
It's impossible to take you seriously while you cling to your expectations of resuming the life you used to have while you were employed in BigLaw. If you can't shift your expectations to adapt to the shrinking market for associates in NYC and still cling to the idea that you're going to get your old job back, then prepare youself for many, many more months of unemployment.
You're putting yourself on the "breadline" because of your own myopia.
#1 is the single best comment. Ever.
And Roxana's post is syntactically and conceptually inscrutible. Is she finally going nuts? I always thought it would be more entertaining.
"Roxana, I've always thought a good lashing with a buggy whip would benefit you immensely."
pills...pills...where are my pills?
I began reading the first Note from the Breadline way back when and then I got bored somewhere around the first paragraph and haven't attempted to read another since. Please stop this series.
I hate you Roxana
Even I wouldn't take on Roxana as a client.
Susan Cartier Liebel sees absolutely nothing wrong with outsourcing US legal jobs to India.....you should not give her a dime.
This huge turd of a column is nothing more than a VERY thinly veiled commercial for Solo Pactice University.
The epistolary style does not suit you.
8 and 17 are spot on. You could at least try to disguise it better. Most blog readers are aware of paid for post advertising.
I usually only read the first sentence of each paragraph -- sometimes only the first clause -- and even with that rule, this piece was too. damn. long.
And - SPU? Like, Spew? Who came up with that wonderful piece of PR?
Just get rid of this damn column.
Roxana:
If you were hot you could have used your continuing pussy pass to keep you in a Biglaw job for which you are otherwise completely unqualified, like a certain Katten NYC attorney.
Every time this crappy column posts, I think that it is the worst piece of crap. Then the next one comes along. Please stop. It's embarassing.
QUINN REMAINS would hire Roxanna, if only for the joy of being able to fire her
Is this supposed to be sarcastic?
who reads this drivel?
This was an OK column when she was still looking for a job, something most people can identify with. Now she's just flushing her money down the toilet by taking stupid online courses and plugging SPU (did she get a discount to plug it on abovethelaw?).
Why would anyone who had a profitable solo practice give it all up to become a Solo cheerleader like Susan C Liebel?
Think about that for a second and get back to me.
Roxana:
You might want to consider the following before your next product endorsement of SPU:
"The Federal Trade Commission (“FTC”) has proposed revisions to its Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials (the “Guides”). With respect to blogs, a marketer could be held liable for false and unsubstantiated statements made through a blogger’s endorsement. The proposed changes would also require the disclosure of any connection between a marketer and a blogger that would affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience), such as the provision of money or a free product in return for posting a favorable review on a blog. The FTC provided the example of video game system manufacturer who sends a free copy of the system to a college student who writes a favorable review about the product on his personal blog. According to the FTC, the readers of his blog are unlikely to expect that the blogger has received the videogame for free and the value of the free game would likely materially affect the credibility consumers attach to the endorsement. Accordingly, if the blogger does not disclose his or her connection to the marketer, the marketer could be held liable for the blogger’s failure to disclose his/her relationship with the marketer."
I suggest that you forward this to David Lat and Susan Liebel.
Sincerely,
Giovanna
Roxana, this is a complete piece of crap. I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to write such shit(I know I know.. if you're the idiot then why am I the one reading it). Anyways, I hate you and I hope you die.. and if that does happen I hope they find all the columns that you have written but have not publisthed. That way they can publish them and I can feel better about my own crappy life when I read them and I can hate you even more.. Cheers!
TL, DNR
To all the hAt3RZ:
My girl Roxy puts her email address right at the top. Why don't you send your whiny rude BS hatespeech directly to her gmail account, so that the rest of us SISTAZ can enjoy her TEH BEZT articles in Peace?????
Peace OUT!
I enjoy reading Notes from the Breadline. Perhaps those who have not experienced unemployment cannot relate to Roxanna's issues. I think many of their comments are made out of fear and they are mean. Those of us who have experience, however, know. You will survive. Best of luck to you Roxanna.
33=Roxana
I haven't take a dump yet today because I was lacking poo paper. Now I can print out this useless, self-indulging dither and wipe my ass with it. Thanks, Roxana!
Everybody shut the F up.
Roxana, don't pay them any mind. They are haters. You are doing something that most would not be brave enough to consider. Every successful entrepreneur in any field initially has to take RISK and a leap of faith. But the happiest and free-est (both financially and literally) people I know are plaintiff solo lawyers. They can look at themselves each day knowing they didn't (or are no longer) take/ing it up the rear for biglaw and that they are fighting on the side of right: for the injured. They are representing whistleblowers, fighting big insurance companies, big pharma, and others in cases where the defendants knew yet willfully hid the death of their plaintiffs (think Vioxx).
Sometimes they are helping a woman get out of a bad divorce or representing a man of humble means who can't work to feed his family because he was caught in an automobile accident and now the insurance company is refusing to pay the bills. This is more honorable than what most of you jackasses have done.
Working as a solo is a noble thing to do. It takes guts. The posters are haters and have drunk the koolaid that gets forced down your throat from day one in most law schools. While I am not a member of SPU, I do know that many successful young solos have said that SPU helped them immensely.
Even if you never hang up a shingle, well at least you'll have a lot more practical knowledge than a lot of these jokers on this site.
Ignore the haters. Keep on writing. I am reading.
Nice; a somewhat useful column for solos, and the lawyer-wannabes start spewing their vitriol. Having left my big firm & started my own shop, I can say the stuff covered here is ABSOLUTELY essential to any successful solo/small firm practice.
Query: how many of the moron commenters have ever (a) written a client retainer letter, (b) done an intake interview, (c) prepped bills for clients, or (d) done half the crap covered here. Pretty close to nil, I suspect. Yah, it does read a bit like SPU propaganda, but so flippin' what? If the readers can't differentiate style from the underlying substance, they're doomed as lawyers.
Retired partner here: More decade ago than I care to remember, I sat in one of my third-years classrooms and listened to three solo practice attorneys make their pitch for more new law grads to try solo practice in small towns. I already had a job with BigLaw, so I didn't really care, but I was curious enough to hang around and listen. The main point each of the guys made was how much money could be made working solo or in a small firm in a small town. These guys made more money than the senior partners at large firms. They didn't seem bothered by the fact that they rarely knew what they were doing, other than making great money. One of the guys actually said that you could mess up almost everything and there was little or no chance that anyone would ever know it. This isn't to say that they didn't try to get it right, only that they didn't worry about fucking things up. In the end, I still didn't want to be a solo attorney in a small town. Instead, I became a senior partner in a huge law firm, made tons of money, and hated it most of the time. Go figure.
Everybody shut the F up.
Roxana, don't pay them any mind. They are haters. You are doing something that most would not be brave enough to consider. Every successful entrepreneur in any field initially has to take RISK and a leap of faith. But the happiest and free-est (both financially and literally) people I know are plaintiff solo lawyers. They can look at themselves each day knowing they didn't (or are no longer) take/ing it up the rear for biglaw and that they are fighting on the side of right: for the injured. They are representing whistleblowers, fighting big insurance companies, big pharma, and others in cases where the defendants knew yet willfully hid the death of their plaintiffs (think Vioxx).
Sometimes they are helping a woman get out of a bad divorce or representing a man of humble means who can't work to feed his family because he was caught in an automobile accident and now the insurance company is refusing to pay the bills. This is more honorable than what most of you jackasses have done.
Working as a solo is a noble thing to do. It takes guts. The posters are haters and have drunk the koolaid that gets forced down your throat from day one in most law schools. While I am not a member of SPU, I do know that many successful young solos have said that SPU helped them immensely.
Even if you never hang up a shingle, well at least you'll have a lot more practical knowledge than a lot of these jokers on this site.
Ignore the haters. Keep on writing. I am reading.
This is BY FAR her worst column yet. I could not even stomach 2 paragraphs.
Roxana, if this is the best you can do for your only source of income, then you belong and shall stay in the breadline.
36=Susan Cartier Liebel
I hope that Roxana St. Thomas isn't your real name, because you're being pretty pathetic in this column and people will remember it. Recruiters will remember it and they don't want to hire someone with little to no motivation. Get a job in a different city. Seriously. People will respect you for it. You can move back to NYC when the market gets better. In addition, your writing is terrible.
I never did like Roxana. The only thing I liked abot her was that she made me look like a good writer. Other than that, I never had any use for her. I can't beleve Lat fired me in 2013 and kept her!
This post is to #36:
You wrote:
"Sometimes they .......representing a man of humble means who can't work to feed his family."
Ah yes, the old wealthy lawyer as a the knight riding to the aid of some poor penniless rube....
There are alot of lawyers out there right now who can't feed their families.......can we get the pro bono leach to come to our houses to do some yard work for free??
36, 37, & 39:
See 29.
--Giovanna
From 39: and no disrespect intended to 38.
If you get a pussy pass into Katten NYC you will never need to attend SPU. Just sleep with the associate who got you your job before Katten to say thank you.
36, exactly what guts are displayed by taking an online class and "thinking" about going solo? I don't see any shingles hanging, just the same tired old "spoon feed me the answer and hold my hand" mentality so often on display around here.
Guess what everyone... There already is a solo practice university and it's free at your local law library. They're called "Practice Guides" and you can probably get them online for less than SPU.
I mean, perish the thought anyone goes out and, you know, actually learns something while they practice law. No, never, how could that possibly work? Obviously there is some all encompassing reservoir of answers that will completely explain everything in detail before hand.
43 might be the funniest comment I have ever read on this site, and the picture is not too bad either!
Please put a "PAID ADVERTISEMENT" disclaimer on this awful column in the future. tyia
is this a suicide note?
I am 36/39 and I have no affiliation to SPU.
Number 44: your post makes no sense. You sound like a hater. The solo plaintiff lawyers I am referring to are not "old." They are young. They look good. They make money. They are happy doing something they believe in. Many of them come from working from insurance defense sweatshops in their prior legal career. They can look at themselves each day and feel good about how they are spending their time here on this earth. They are passionate about helping their clients.
You sound bitter and ignorant.
As I said Roxana, ignore the haters. Keep on writing.
too looooooonnnnnngg Roxana, girl!
Geez....we don't need a minute by minute replay!
#52 Not old as in age you idiot.....I mean old as in "that old chestnut."
DUH
Don't use the word "hater"...it gives away your race. Thanks.
43 -- FTW
39 = Roxana
Gosh, going solo in New York seems like a really lousy idea.
Some figures:
The ABA says that, as of 2008, there were 150,542 active, resident lawyers in New York State. That's the largest bar in the country. By comparison, there were just 73,505 active, resident lawyers in Texas but Texas has just about 5 million more people living in it.
Even California has a slightly smaller bar than New York serving a population 16 million GREATER.
Going solo might work for Roxana but she'd stand a MUCH better chance of success if only she'd get the hell out of NYC.
(Census figures are from census.gov)
See Skadden Farts post on going solo.
The solo market is absolutely saturated!
Go on craigslit looking at people literally begging for work, underbidding eachother, it's pathetic
43 = Gold, pure gold.
What percent of the fee solo practice U paid you do I get if I post a complimentary post here?
Good for Roxana, going solo is tough, but at least she has the stones to do it.
I really feel the need to tell off you poor little T-14 babies, especially when I read posts like this:
"Will TTT students/grads (any lawschool ranked equal to or lower than Alabama) please refrain from commenting on ATL.
We are really getting sick of the entitlement BS."
Let me tell you a nice story about my life. My partner and I attended a SHIT law school. It is a state school, so we probably had 80k less debt than you do. Somehow, I managed to get a job at large national firm (I have a BS in engineering, not a useless philosophy or history degree). I hated the people I worked with (mainly because I worked with arrogant shitheads like many of the posters on here) and I left VOLUNTARILY.
About 8 months ago I decided to join my friend, who is a solo. He has been practicing in our area of law for about 8 years and he is mentoring me (yes, you should have some sort of mentor if you are solo). Last month my partner said he had a bad month because he only made 42k. He made 70k in June.
I ALREADY make more than I did at my old firm and get to work with someone I actually like.
Before all of you arrogant dweebs start ragging on me, I will put the kabash on any argument that you are better than me or that your life is better than mine because I attended a Tier 3 law school.
First and foremost, I probably make more money than you. Second, I like my job. Third, I am drop dead gorgeous. Basically, if I were taller I would be a Victoria's Secret model. I seriously doubt any woman on here can say that.
I realize that throwing that in your faces puts me on the same level on the a-holes on here, but you arrogant, self-entitled jerks that think you are above everyone need to be taken down a notch.
Attending a T-14 school doesn't make you special and better than everyone else. If you were so happy, you wouldn't be on this blog whining all of the time.
The idiots that constantly rag on people for grammatical errors, attending a TTT school, etc. really crack me up. Why? Because you are probably (1) unattractive, (2) miserable at your job, (3) don't have a job and (4) couldn't fend for yourself if your life depended on it.
Now go cry to your mommy because I called you ugly and miserable. Then ask them for another loan because you are starving to death on your own.
P.S. My fiancee is hot, has a great job and a gigantic cock. HAH! Life is good!
future elie ftw!
#62 Seems like you got a "pussy pass" into Biglaw just like a certain Katten NYC associate did. You hated Biglaw and moved on. Good for you.
62 - we do not hate on Roxana because she is going solo. It is because her columns are pathetic. It is a crime that she gets paid and apparently has put thought into producing such garbage. It is no wonder she was fired.
62 -- will you break up with your fiancée and marry me?
62 - I'm a T4 grad living a great life as a practicing attorney in-house. I have to say that your comment is equally pathetic to all the clowns that rag on TTT schools on their laptops in class while they're not paying attention to their lectures. I think most (90%) of these kids don't actually give a shit but just troll threads with those comments to bring out the real assholes such as yourself who obviously have a huge chip on their shoulder and are really, really bitter for some reason. I mean seriously, if your best idea for boosting a personal lack of confidence and self worth is by belittling others anonymously, you need to do some serious soul searching. You probably are the type of person that turns up their nose to retail workers, or disrespects people that bag your groceries because you need to maintain this aura of yourself as some sort of "elite" human being in order to prevent your little world of self doubt from crashing down on you.
Take an anonymous insult or joke on this site from anonymous commenters for what it's worth--nothing. Move on with your life. If you truly care that much about what anonymous kids on ATL are saying about you then I think you're the one with the more serious problem, not them.
what the hell are you even talking about?
67- In-house = lazy and without a future
You shuld have stayed at a firm- you could have been a partner and maybe owned something rather than being a 9-to-5 peon working as a complimentary piece in a complimentary department.
62 here. You couldn't be more wrong about me and how I treat people in real life. I'll concede to feeling bitter about the constant comments I received from my former co-workers regarding my pedigree, especially when I delivered the same work product.
Furthermore, almost every associate at my prior firm would read and post on this site. I know for a fact those people look down on people without the right pedigree. Those comments are not meaningless when it is clear that most BigLaw associates actually treat the attorneys without the right pedigree like lesser human beings. I know that from experience. I was mainly treated horribly by the women, for obvious reasons.
What I wrote was mean, I will give you that. However, I do not carry myself in that way in real life and I do a lot of pro bono work. The people that know me would be shocked that I wrote this.
My only intention is to write an an official "FUCK YOU" to the people on here (and my former soulless coworkers) that think they are better than everyone else because they have a better pedigree.
That was therapeutic. I am glad I finally got that out.
70, this thread was awesome until you showed up.
Future Elie, FTC guidelines punking Roxana, and even PE got in a good one-liner.
Please leave. Blog comments are not therapy.
62/70 - no one brought schools into the discussion. The posts were directed towards Roxana's terrible product.
However, you clearly do not possess the pedigree you purport to have. If you did, you certainly would not post such obscenities on a public message board and would not feel the need to defend your inferiority so ardently. If you did have pedigree, you would air such problems to your therapist, not feel the need to tell everyone how good looking you are (which I highly doubt) and how happy you are (which is abundantly clear in your prior messages that you can get so worked up over a mere message board). I would suggest some prescription drugs and a therapist. Moreover, if you are trying to come off as having a good pedigree, try to make it a bit more convincing and drop the 4 letter words. Perhaps they did not teach that at inferior finishing schools?
72, you are clearly one of the a-holes I had in mind. I never said I had a good pedigree. In fact I said it was horrible and, despite that, I obtained a job in Biglaw because I have a degree in engineering.
Fine, insert this post in a blog where the "elite" are writing insulting remarks about T3 grads.
I have followed this blog for a while and the "elite" are constantly bashing people over pedigree.
Enough said. Since I finished all the work that I planned to finish this week, I am off to a baseball game. Cheers!
And yes, I am that attractive. :)
sorry, 73, I wasn't paying much attention to your insane ranting. I am not an elitist, I just find your insanity to be highly amusing. That you feel the need to defend yourself and your education to others. Clearly - despite your poor pedigree - you do not know how to properly address people or properly vent frustration. I would then suggest taking your "Victoria's Secret" body out for a run or even to the gym where you can look at poor pitiful persons who are not as beautiful or certainly classless- I mean, classy, as yourself.
If you were THAT attractive, you wouldn't be working now, would you?
#58 here.
I read #59's comment about Craigslist and thought I'd take a look. Hardly scientific, of course, but if Craigslist is any indicator, #59 is right. The NYC solo market is not merely saturated but overwhelmed past the point of mass suffocation with excess legal talent.
Roxana might consider opening her office in, say, Omaha, Nebraska if she's serious about making a good living as a solo attorney. There are about 5,200 lawyers for a total population of 1.75 million statewide. And contrary to popular belief, there ARE Starbucks in Omaha...after all, that's where Warren Buffet chooses to live.
74, I think I have sufficiently admitted my shortcomings and that what I wrote was wrong and classless.
The pedigree bashers are equally classless. In an extremely inflammatory way, I tried to make the point that you do not have to attend a T-14 school to have a good life and be happy. In fact, Biglaw tends to make people unhappy.
I got a rise out of people and that was my intention.
76 - sadly, you did not achieve your goal. what you wrote was indeed classless and caustic and if you are as happy as you profess, you would not feel the need to "stick it to" people who went to certain schools. Here's a tip- I didn't go to a top school either, but I do work in a top firm - which I love - and am happy. I also do not feel the need to broadcast to strangers about the looks of my fiance or how attractive I may be as a person. It is what's on the inside that counts.
76 - sadly, you did not achieve your goal. what you wrote was indeed classless and caustic and if you are as happy as you profess, you would not feel the need to "stick it to" people who went to certain schools. Here's a tip- I didn't go to a top school either, but I do work in a top firm - which I love - and am happy. I also do not feel the need to broadcast to strangers about the looks of my fiance or how attractive I may be as a person. It is what's on the inside that counts.
Can ATL send Roxy to a writer's workshop next?
I also look like a "Victoria's Secret" model. It's true because I just wrote it!
74... Instead of bitching about how crappy your TTThird TTTier TTToilet Education is, can you get on your knees and do something more productive with your mouth?
These are the kind of desperate gutter ads you see all the time on Craigslst:
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74 here. 80, I will send you a picture of me if you can tell me how my behavior on this blog is similar to "ElmhurstSteve". No searching the internet.
81, LOL, that statement is obviously similar to my warped sense of humor.
QUESTION: How many times in the history of this blog have you read an extremely mean and derogatory comment made to a group of people (i.e. Tier 3's shouldn't write on the blog because they are inferior to me and the rest of T14, called Elie fat, make derogatory comments to women, etc., and at the SAME TIME, say that what they were doing was wrong, classless, they had a chip on their shoulder because of a negative experience, etc?
This blog is full of offensive comments that are extremely mean and degrading, and the people that write them don't care and don't apologize (and you know who you are....T-14's).
How would you like it if someone treated you differently because of the way you look. That is what I did and it was obviously considered reprehensible behavior. I am sure that hit a nerve with almost everyone.
I hope I have made my point. It doesn't feel good when someone thinks they are above you when they were fortunate enough to be born attractive.
At the same time, It doesn't feel good when someone looks down on you because you don't have the right pedigree either.
One's appearance and intelligence is not something they can change. You can do the best with what you have.
I hope someone got my point.
I apologize for the inflammatory and mean remarks. But for those of you that manifest the behavior that I described, you should look at yourselves.
74 -
The only point you have made is that English is your second language. I doubt you are a lawyer, as you write more like a legal secretary pretending to be a lawyer.
85, what do you expect from an iphone (here come the loser comments). Nietsche?
85 = Case in point.
Patent attorney are literary masters.
I skim ATL just to find the Breadlines column... the story line has me hooked! I've been wondering how you're supporting yourself so long without an income? Savings from the biglaw job? ATL salary? Was that temp doc review job lucrative?
too long, did not read
STOP EFFING WRITING, NO ONE CARES
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62 and so many others:
You cannot be happy. Happy and ATL reader/poster are mutually exclusive.
These Breadline posts are becoming increasingly creepy.
There seem to be two points to this article: we should learn to do penny ante work and that after 3 years of law school and a stupendous bar review course, I am now finally learning how 'law' really works. Great.
If I knew that going into my T30 craptastic school, I would have just opted for the MBA. At least that way, I would be waking up next to a pair of overstuffed fun bags as opposed to waking up in terror realizing that my prospects are dimmer than ever.
Hey people! Give it a rest...Notes from the Breadline is probably one of the better posts on this website. Roxana is great and her posts are fun & interesting. For god's sake, you people make me SICK sometimes!
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4/2011
"Teen Arrested in Murder of Harlem Solo Lawyer.
AP. A 14-year old boy was arrested earlier today on a charge of second degree murder in the death of Roxanna St. Thomas, a Harlem solo lawyer, who was found dead in the Brooklyn sewer last week. The officials said that the boy, identified only as J.V. because of his age, was dissatisfied with how his lawyer, St. Thomas, handled his sexual misconduct case in court. He allegedly attacked St. Thomas in a public park near the Brooklyn Family Court and threw down her into the sewer where she was found dead three days later. The cause of death, according to the coroner, was sepsis or blood poisoning from numerous rat bites. The boy's mother, Ella, denied the allegations, 'It's her own fault,' she said, referring to St. Thomas, 'She pled him guilty to everything. What kind of a lawyer is that?' In a press conference announcing the arrest, Mayor Bloomberg thanked the police and the public for their prompt action in apprehending the suspect. . ."
"There is more, but it's not relevant, " I said, after reading it to Lat.
"It's a pity, " he sighed, "she seemed to be doing well."
"Yea, she was our best student at SPU. She had taken the Introduction to Junior Delinquency right before she signed him up, and was ready to start with the Junior Delinquency module, but never made it."
"What happened to her cats?"
"I placed them with the Leona Hemsley Animal Foundation, " I said.
"I thought it was only for dogs."
"It was originally. But after the passage of Obama's Universal Animal Rights Act of 2010, the judge supervising her trust expanded it to include cats."
"Good for them," said Lat.
"David. You've been extraordinary successful," I said, surveying ATL's headquarters at Marc Dreier's former office, "But your penchant to help the unfortunate minorities may cost us some day. I had a really hard time convincing the AP to keep your ownership of SPU quiet in this dispatch."
"You know, you're pretty cheeky for a GC."
"I have to be, David, for your own sake. I'm the only one who tells the truth. You need to know what's going on."
"I guess so, but I'm other project is doing fabulously."
"Ellie. Yea, how is he? I haven't seen him for a while," I responded.
Lat pressed a button on his desk. "Ellie, bring me my V-8. What? Yes, V-8, moron. Not Fresca. Fresca is for Mr. Basin in Room 4."
A few minutes later, Ellie brought Lat a bottle of V-8, with a jolly, "Here you, sir!"
"Thank you, Ellie, you may go."
"We really took off, David, after you promoted Ellie to a non-writing position. That was a great decision."
"Yes. The best one I ever did after starting this blog."
95, god, I thought I had too much time on my hands
95, what 96 said, but that was funny. Good writing. I foresee a future writing skit comedy.