This offer rate is lower than "peer market." I'm sorry to all the PH summers who are not getting an offer.

Awful.

A promise now that they'll start on time is worthless, unless there's some sort of legal doctrine I'm unaware of that would allow summers to hold them to their word.

So, nothing on the fact that there are already a good number of no-offers that have gone out? Or the fact that it seems somewhat unlikely that NY is anywhere near 70-75%?

Why don't you talk about how awesome Paul Weiss is. Near 100% offers, start date in Sept., no layoffs whatsoever, summer lunches and events that flowed like milk and honey.

Comment removed by moderator.

Why are they allowed to get away with saying "it's the economy, stupid" when not every firm has had to say the same? It's their stupid handling of the economy, stupid.

Yeah, sure...they'll be starting in the Fall just like the other classes that were supposed to start in the Fall. They will start in the Fall if PH decides early-Summer of next year that they want them to start in the Fall.

PH also guaranteed a Fall start date for this year's incoming associates . . . they are now starting in January

I'm a 2008 PH summer, does this mean my class will definitely be starting in January? Otherwise we would be starting on top of the 2009 summers.

5 is right. PHNY is definitely NOT doing its part to bring the rate up to 70% firmwide. Too bad this post says nothing useful about the thing everyone was upset about in the first place. Nice work, Elie.

Link on earlier post about Vault now works ... confirmation that these are legit.?

Holy fuck. Latham is now laying off summers at PAUL HASTINGS.

Complete bullshit. There is no way they can evaluate a summer as inadequate unless they just don't give a fuck. This is beyond market shitty.

Elie - you have totally botched this story.

1. The firm only made offers to 50% of it's NY associates. By allowing the firm to aggregate numbers you are burying the lead.

2. The firm knew they were going to do this before the summer started with one partner telling a group of full time associates that "it was their job to lose".

3. The offers in New York were based largely on where you went to school and not how you performed.

You are the worst reporter ever.

No-offer 50 percent of this year's summer class, then let the 2008 PH summers start when they were promised (Oct. '09).

If Mystal is fat and Lat is gay, does that mean Kash is ugly? Does ATL have the trifecta?

6 - I'm wondering the same thing about a couple other firms, too.

Also, the "great news" start date isn't in any way binding so I wouldn't be so excited about it Elie.

I don't think a deferral is much different then being no-offered. It just gives the firm more time to decide they don't need you and choose between unemployed attorneys (who are more qualified) and their new summer class (which is more eager).

I think there is still some significant stigma to being no offered, however, and that may make it better to be part of 100% offer. The certainty of one bad result is preferable to a 25% chance of catastrophe.

All the people who were average at a T5 school but can't compete with top 5% at a T30 are fucked. Boo fuckin' hoo.

Is PH second-tier in LA? (Objective response)

Not on same level as other big LA players?

Holy fuck Latham and Paul Hastings

Where's the story on Barrygate???

24: And what's the status of the expose?

Is this better or worse than VE Houston?

Curious George here - What does PPP mean exactly? Does an equity partner sitting in the NY office of some firm make as much as another in a foreign office?

Anyone have some insight?

Comment removed by moderator.

if 16 is correct, this post is beyond vague and completely useless. the 70-75% offer rate touted by the PH spokesperson is meaningless if the "50% offer rate" is not firm-wide, but only office-specific as 16 claims.

when reporting offer rates, the responsible thing to do is to note the office unless you have information from every single office in which the firm held a summer program. claiming to know an overall offer rate based on one office is disingenuous and misleading.

16 & 29 nailed it.

16 & 29 for ATL EIC.

laTTTham is 17 on vault. PWNED

I love the PH's policy. Finally the summer associates will have to do some work, kiss ass, and stop being the wimpering little boys and girls they've become over the past decade.

For next year they should hire a larger summer class, pay them less and then weed out the best and brightest. Offer something like a 40% rate. The economy will continue to be bad, the job market for 2Ls will stink so I know all 2Ls will still jump at the possibility of spending the summer at PH.

Does anyone with a Vault membership know the regional rankings? Post them??? (NO BS please)

LA?
DC?
NY is probably pretty clear from the overall rankings

Paul Hastings New Yotk gave offers to slightly less than 50% of its summer class. This number includes returning 1L summers, of course none of whom intend to take a PH offer over the far more prestigious firms they slit with this summer, but all of whom received offers because PH management knew that would happen. Moreover, by most accounts the summer program was torture. 1Ls, avoid this firm costs. Don't be deluded by the fairly high Vault ranking. Any firm in the V100 is preferable.

Paul Hastings fucking Lathamed its NY summers. What douchebags. I hope they get aids.

They may get offers but I'm sure PH will end up deferring (potentially indefinitely) a large number of their SAs.

Vault 2010 = Latham got Lathamed

Why was PH upfront with ATL and not the no-offerees re the economy?

16, 29, 30, 31, 35 = same person.

SA's should have to work for an associate position. Why should it be easy to walk into a $160K/yr. job?

16 may or may not be right, but definitely needs to revisit what "burying the lead" means.

I just pray they don't Fish & Richardson the lucky summers they give offers to.

- 3L who got F'd & R'd on graduation day.

Hmm, I call total BS on the claim that they intend to improve the overall offer rates from here (unless they're calling back people they've already no-offered and extending them an offer). I know very few people who haven't heard re offers, and it's a ~50% rate. What, are they going to offer 100% of those who haven't heard? So far, the decisions seem to have been made based on school rather than merit. This firm should be made to pay.

-NOT a PH summer but friends with multiple casualties.

I hope Vault Lathamed Latham. If a firm can fuck over its associates that badly and stay a vault 10, then vault rankings are meaningless.

Whatever PH's offer rate is, it's significantly higher than the percentage of corporate/RE associates who got to keep their jobs. Enjoy our offices (I jerked off in mine).

42 - HA!

I got F'd in the R by F&R too.

Hopefully things will get a bit easier for us once bar results are in.

why is there no post on the new vault rankings?

If the latest info up on Vault is accurate, I find the following involving some of this website's "usual suspects" a bit interesting:

Latham -- 17
White & Case -- 20
Paul Hastings -- 32
Orrick -- 41

44,

As a highly ranked 5th year associate at a V15 in my group, I can assure you the Vault Rankings are completely worthless. There is no way in hell anyone ranking law firms can understand the depth or nuances which makes certain practices excel over others. There is no objective criteria as far as quality of work, it's impossible.

40 = Paul Hastings AEO intern.

Elie got hornswoggled. How can the following be true if a bunch of people got dinged already?

"Right now, we understand that about 50% of the current summer class has received an offer to return to the firm. The other 50% are in limbo."

I got no-offered at Goodwin Procter-Boston. But I may be the only one.

Pinky: What are we going to do tonight, Brain

Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky, pick up a great story on Paul Hastings no-offering 1/2 of their summer class in NYC and then allow the firm to whamboozle us into thinking that's not what they did.

Pinky: Narf! Great journalism, Brain! Point!

pssh -- 100% offer rate firm is the only way to go. Of course most law students - type a personalities - think they will dominate the summer program and be one of the lucky 75%. What you don't realize is that you are placing your entire career in the hands of some random associate that can completely f' you based on a few bullsh*t assignments. "Oh well my work will shine through" - oh really? Chances are your review is going to be based far more on whether the associate was in a good or bad mood than your rigorous spell checking. That assumes, of course, you even get enough work to get a substantive review. Trust me, 100%.

lol, Vault rankings are out and no story

You guys are really dumb as shit. They can make all the offers and promises they want, but only a total idiot would bet his life on any of it. It's the new normal: lie early and often.

Post a damn story on Vault ---- this website is becoming TTT!!!!

Honest for all those that say PH no offered summers in NY didnt work hard etc. . .I promise that is not true. At the mid summer review the first thing out of the hiring partner's mouth was "this is your average number of hours a week which is higher/lower than this number which is the average." Thus scaring the shit out of everyone and forcing all to work pretty insane hours and take on a shit ton of assignments. I realize that long hours and lots of work does not preclude the chance that the summers' work sucked but that was largely not the case. The associates were instructed to give harsh reviews and I along with others still only had positive reviews. . . only to be no offered because of our performance. Also, If they are aiming for 75% they better be close to 90% at all other offices since NY was a fucking massacre.

Despicable. In other news, WTF happened to Cadwalader in the vault rankings...oh wait

The options are not clear without indicating whether there is a deferral stipend/bonus involved. Getting an upfront lump sum at the start of the deferral makes it less of a no-offer, a la 20's observation.

Will research and write memos for food.

vault linky, prease

sanks.

60 posts on Paul Hastings and nothing using the phrase "coat hanger", or the words "miscarriage" or "abortion"? WTF?

62: it's the same link as in the "incorrect rankings" thread from earlier today.

Here's the million dollar questions: Paul Hastings or Latham?

75%, all of whom start on time, is much better than 100% and deferrals, because most of the deferrals are never going to start work anyway.

I'm not sure if anyone knows this but is Paul Hastings a law school or a law firm? I have never heard of the name so I was just wondering if anybody knew. Thank you.

Lat claims to be a Wachtell alum --- he should know that his site should be updated 24/7 --- where's Vault???????

WHO CARES ABOUT AN OFFER RATE? WHAT IF 90% OF THE SUMMERS ARE FUCKING RETARDS? I SHOULD HOPE THEY WOULD NO OFFER ALL 90%.

The economy is so shitty ATL is unwilling to pay for Vault.

anyone who would not take a deferral over starting on time is an asshole. only in law would there be a group of anal-retentive pyschos not excited by the prospect of getting paid for a year to do whatever the hell you want. have any of you worked at a giant law firm recently? ...it sucks.

69,

You're the retard.It's not like the modern day shitty economy produces lesser quality summers. If anything, the summers probably worked harder their respective summer than the very people who determine the offers. Now stop being a fucking idiot.

69 - tiNtcr

When students accept an SA spot they forego many opportunities to seek employment elsewhere. A no offer is basically a lay-off. I'm tired of hearing shit about entitlement.

74,

I think you're absolutely correct. The only instance where the entitlement issue should come up is where a summer simply acts like they don't give a fuck or they were connected and didn't deserve the summer posistion in the first place.

yup, no offer is a lay off given how big law recruiting works. most of the hiring, especially in this economy, is done through the summer programs.

Atlanta and DC have definitely told the summers who were not getting offers. I don't know what the rate in DC was, but the summers who didn't get offers were told last week. The offer rate in Atlanta was 50% and the other 50% were told last week that they're not getting offers.

Atlanta and DC have definitely told the summers who were not getting offers. I don't know what the rate in DC was, but the summers who didn't get offers were told last week. The offer rate in Atlanta was 50% and the other 50% were told last week that they're not getting offers.

Asshole associates who bring up the entitlement issue is equivalent to hindsight bias. Congratulations, you were hired in a bullish/bullshit market. Now that the market has corrected itself people who were born later suffer. Your mommy and daddy had successful sex before my mommy and daddy. That's the difference b/w us.

Agreed. DC has told all of its summers if they received offers or no-offers.

54 - you hit it right on. I think an associate dinged me because I refused a piece of candy, and it made her feel fat.

It is not clear that those Vault rankings are real.

No matter what Lat/Mystal/etc. posted, you guys would have complained. This sour grapes sh*t is getting old. I'm sure all of you whiners left the program with smiles and are only complaining because reality hit you in your pouTTTy faces. PH won't be the only firm with lower offer rates. Get over it.

Now, can we please move on to other firms?

-SA from another firm with less than 100% offer rates, apprehensively awaiting any (non-PH or VE) news.

83 = 40 = Paul Hastings AEO intern.

83 - this thread is about PH as far as I can tell...so we don't really need to move on just yet.

As for the summers wondering/fretting over offers - fyi - recently, PH instructed their staff that the month end payroll would consist of ONE WEEK'S PAY ONLY due to a "change in payroll company." Excuse me...ahem. The management there must think their employees are not that bright to come up with such a lame scheme to buy time for its cash flow dilemma. The staff (admins and paras ONLY) was further told that they could either cash in a weeks worth of vacation or ask for an advance. Apparently the rest of the money they are owed will come later...maybe the next payroll? These are not typical consequences of a "payroll change" or of a company that's a going concern. So for all those fretting about starting in fall 2009 or 2010 or whenever...i strongly urge you to consider this important information and not to place your eggs in this basket, regardless.

85: The $ for the payroll is just not there! Extremely alarming.

85 - Maybe they should issue I.O.U.s, like the State of CA(?)

Paul HasTTTings

I summered at a NYC firm that dissolved at the end of the summer. I scrambled, found a job at a smaller firm in NYC and worked there for a few years, moved up to a larger, national firm and a few years later I was vaporized in a stealth layoff as the firm contracted massively. A year later I was at another large firm, worked there for a number of years, became a partner (nonequity, of course) and that firm dissolved last year. Rather than get back on the large firm carousel I started my own practice and haven't looked back.

The point is that you have to remember that one day, everyone ends up getting fucked by a large firm. If it's not you today, watch out for tomorrow.

Paul HasTTTings.

Thanks 89. Great post.

SeTTTh.

WTF? I haven't heard of any summers not having heard from PH. Is this only PHNY?

I concur with the entitlement bullshit.

You wanna know which people have the worst sense of entitlement? The current biglaw associates that haven't been laid off and complain about salaries and benefits being cut. You complain about getting your pay cut. You complain about how hard you work. You complain about how the partners treat you like shit. You complain about how bonuses wont be as big this year.

That is a sense of entitlement. There are thousands of deferred associates, summers waiting to hear about offers, and rising 2Ls praying for callbacks that would take your place in a second. So STFU and get back to work (for less pay).

85, not only does that sound like something that might be unlawful, if true, you're right, it sounds like a firm having SERIOUS cash flow problems and on the verge of going under. Failing to make payroll and telling employees that if they want their full pay for the month they have to take it as an "advance"? How can it be an "advance" on pay they've already earned?

You hear a lot of trash talking about firms here on ATL, but that's some serious TTTrash TTTalkin' - if 85 is not making this up, it would appear this firm is on the verge of insolvency if not already insolvent.

95: PHNY sec'y here. 85 is NOT making this up. We (staff) all got this message.

92 made me laugh so hard I peed myself a little. I know it's a tired joke but the execution there is flawless.

The firm sucks there is no doubt about that. The stupidity of this move will serve as a cautionary tale for HR departments for years to come.

I would rather be differed at a more prestigious firm or assured of an offer at a less prestigious one.

And one more thing you totally missed Elie:

The firm isn't paying these summers anything for passing them over. So rather than getting 50 or 75k to go and seek out a job the firm pays these people nothing. This is the worst thing a firm could to a promising young attorney. So now these folks get nothing and the firm gets to report to above the law that you can have our bottom 25% we don't owe them a thing.

This is shameful. It represents an attempt to fundamentally shift the associate paradigm and students and laterals should think long and hard before going to a place like this.

83- it is very obvious that you are with PH and are trying to shift everyone's attention to any firm other than PH

but this is a PH thread, so just be a big boy and let it go- you look worse playing these little games

Here's a tip. If you really wanted to be smart about crunching offer data, you'd setup an anonymous aggregating system like lawschoolnumbers.com. It'd really drive the eyeballs to the site too. Of course, firms could try to F with the system to falsely inflate their numbers, but you could mitigate that by only allowing one data point per IP or something.

99,

I'd be really interested to hear more about this idea. Please email me at Idontgiveafuck@gmail.com.

Lat

Sounded like promising news at first, but the more I think about it, the less reassuring any of the firm's announcement sound (for reasons listed above).

For the record, it's not clear to me that offers at PH NY were based solely on law school.

Again, for the record, it seems that all hiring decisions have already been communicated, and the firms summer programs (in all offices) have concluded, so I'm not sure what they're trying to pull with these announcements....

Lat, your email's bouncing. -99

PH just picked up high profile new partners. Could they really be on the brink of insolvency?

If it's true that they shafted staff on pay, requiring them to take advances or vacation pay, that should be a much bigger story, shouldn't it? How is that not getting massive attention?

I've heard the insolvency rumor for a while, but this move with staff pay is the first evidence I've heard. Would be interested to hear any other evidence.

No offered summers are going to all scramble for government jobs and clerkships.

Those who get neither will likely not be lawyers.

Anything from Proskauer? How straight forward are they

Anything from Proskauer? How straight forward are they

72 - WHO SAYS THE SUMMERS IN THE PAST WEREN'T SHITTY TO BEGIN WITH? YOU STOP BEING THE IDIOT. YOU THINK AN HOUR AND A HALF OF FACE TIME GUARANTEES THAT YOU PICK 100% COMPETENT / NORMAL SUMMER ASSOCIATES?

...and stop shouting, it's hurting my EARS

-SIXTY NINE

How do I get to this year's Vault rankings? I can only see last year's.

69 -- if a firm comprises a summer class with 90% being idiots, I think that says a lot about the firm; and a firm should be able to make $$ even from idiots for the first 2 or 3 yrs. Pls admit you are clueless

I heard an unconfirmed rumor that Wilmer no offered 17-20% of the NY summer class.

Hey everyone and Paul Hastings 25-30% who will be no offered, great news. Obama's the Audacity of Hope is now available for IPods! As Mystal would say -- Yayyy!

110 -- that's ok, because (see # 111)

Dear Young Lawyers,

I wish upon you all a speedy recovery from the difficult economic environment in which you currently find yourselves.

However, my $3M yacht would not be afloat right now were it not for the ocean of tears which each of you sheds every single day. In fact, Roxana St. Thomas' incessant crying alone increases the depth of the world's oceans by an average of one inch per week. For that, I thank you.

Cheers,

Global Law Firm Consultant

112=111

111/112,

1) You are horribly unfunny.

2) I got an offer from my summer firm. Should I blame Obama for that too, or is it just the bad stuff he's responsible for?

Wachtell = 0% offer rate

65

if LaTTTham and Paul HasTTTings are your only option, then kill self is the only answers

For all future PH summers ---> pay attention to who EriCa likes / who gives speeches and only do work for those people. No number of great reviews can save you if you dont get to work with the "in crowd." Please note you should only be a PH summer if it is your only choice and you should take a medium nyc firm over PH.

Between 15 and 25% of summers in almost every class should be no offered because of clear personality and/or performance issues. You can figure out within 3 days of starting who those summers will be - although the relevant summers themselves never do. So its probable between one-third and half of those no-offered deserved to be no-offered although for the others its a sh!tty situation. To get a 75% total offer rate, maybe PH should have given offers to its top 75% overall and let some NYers start in other offices.

PH NY no offered HALF THE CLASS? that is fucking latham

When NALP figures come out we shall see what a lie this is.

QUINN REMAINS

ATL better retract this article. This was the most shotty piece of journalism I have ever read.

(1) PH did not say they were not giving offers due to the "economy" they told the summer associates that they did not live up to PH high criteria.

(2) The summer program ended last week. It does not end in two weeks. PH is not making any more offers.

(3) The fact that ATL claims that "Paul Hastings INTENDS to make offers to between 70% and 75%" is absolutely meaningless. They could intend to be the best firm in the world that does not mean they really are.

(4) ATL made no mention of the fact that PHNY offered 50% of the summer class.

I am truly disgusted with what PH is doing. They are trying to cover up how they handled the situation by telling ATL lies.

118--

Not true. I only spoke with Erica in reviews (seriously) and almost intentionally avoided the "in-crowd" of partners and senior associates. I did, however, work on tons of assignments, got stellar reviews on every single one (more luck than anything). I got an offer, and Erica was gushing about me over the phone.

On the other hand, I know of at least a couple friends whose strategy was exactly what you advocate, who did not get offers. They seemed to worked just as hard as I did, and seemed very competent and professional. In addition, they definitely made a concerted effort to make connections with the right people, and seemed very successful at it. I was surprised (as were they) when they did not receive an offer.

You can't really game the system when only 50% get offers!

If PH NY is true to their word re starting in Fall 2010 and pays bar stipends as in the past, it will go a long way in redeaming their diminished image in my eyes.

akin gump ny < 50% offer rate. they must be so happy that this is whole PH thing is going on at the same time.

Anyone aware of any OMM no-offers?

118 - What law school do you attend?

I mean 124

128--it's a great school, but one of my friends who schmoozed with the in crowd went to a similarly great school and was no-offered.

It's not all about schmoozing, it's not all about school.

110 - probably not true, but their class was so small (15-ish) that no-offering 2 might amount to the no-offer rate you are suggesting. So it is possible, but not something to be worried about.

ATL: Can we PLEASE get an updated summer offer rate thread? There are still a lot of firms where the offer rates aren't clear (including PH apparently).

This post is full of inaccuracies and firm propaganda. Either fix it or delete it entirely.

129- That is true. But at PH it was a lot about what school you attended.

133 - How much could it have been about school? PH NY mainly hires from TTTs anyways.

110--statistically impossible unless they no-offered between 2.38 and 2.8 people.

125--How do you know Akin Gump gave < 50% offers? Do you have any more information on that?

133--I was at PH. My friend was at PH.

All other things being equal, a firm will hire a Harvard student over a Hofstra student. Of course, all other things are usually not equal.

Going to a great law school gave PH summers a leg up, but it did not guarantee an offer.

When firms give offers after the summer program ends (or no-offers too I guess), how are they telling the summers? I am waiting to hear from my firm, and just wondering whether firms are doing it over email, phone, letter, etc...

If PH NY discriminated on any consistent basis in hiring decisions, it was on the basis of citizenship, not law school.

Did any foreign nationals receive job offers?

138--Paul Hastings called.

any news about offers at schulte roth?

Look, spoiled a-holes. Nobody owes you a job. You're lucky you got a summer job doing no work and paying 40K for less than 3 months. But chill the fuck out. Three quarters of the summers, even if they got jobs, would be gone w/in 2 years of starting anyway. So it's not like this is a firm where you're going to spend a significant portion of your career. If you went to a decent law school and you do serviceably well at school, you'll have your choice of firms when you graduate. If you didn't go to a decent law school, you're freaking stupid and don't deserve to work at a decent firm anyway.

142,
I got your point, but I seriously don't know what to do from now on in this economy. I haven't been recovered from the shock. If you don't want to hear other people somehow trying to cope with the stress, you don't have to read the comments, period.

nixon peabody only offered 50% of its sa's

forget about the summers,lets talk about the layoffs that are coming within the next week, secretaries beware that little rooster peggy is checking timesheets and card key accsess on a daily basis,you may not see her walking the halls because shes below the desk but shes watching your every move,my good friend was just busted,sneaky sneaky sneaky

more paul hastings gosip this shit is priceless

isnt there a dress code policy at ph,when i went to 17 the other day i saw rim wearing a skirt around 15 inches above her hideous knees,ever hear of lotion miss,i couldnt wait to get back to my floor,hey barry can you find it in the budget somewhere to splurge and get this lady a pair of pants,
hey 145-i also heared that rumor about the that little rooster,,,,,,,,,,,her smile is just as phony as that admin up on 17,i have some past encounters with her and she is so sneaky,she plays the blame game,blame it on everyone else its called

145 - NY secy here. How can you be so sure layoffs are coming?

144 - seriously? 50% firmwide?