Seyfarth Shaw Cancels 2010 Summer Program
While there seems to be some good news for rising 3Ls, there is more bad news for rising 2Ls. Seyfarth Shaw is the latest firm to cancel its 2010 summer program. Here’s the news from an email that went out to associates earlier today:
[T]he Executive Committee has made the decision to not host a summer associate program in 2010. By taking a break from hosting a summer program in 2010, it will allow us to effectively integrate those associates who already are set to start or participating in this year’s summer program. It also will help us get back on a more typical schedule of first-year hiring. This is not a decision to cease hiring from law schools, nor is it a decision to permanently cease a summer program. It is, however, a decision to pause for a year.
For people who have been paying attention to Seyfarth Shaw, today’s news isn’t all that surprising. More details after the jump.
Seyfarth has already been through multiple rounds of layoffs. The firm cut 30 people in December, another 30 in January, and 50 people in May.
And Seyfarth has already cut associate salaries between 5% and 20%.
And now it looks like the deferral game has finally caught up to the class of 2011. The firm has already deferred 2009 graduates to October 2010. Today, the firm also announced that its current summer associates will not be able to start until January 2011:
Over the course of the next year, we will bring into the Firm a number of first-year associates who received offers last summer, some starting in January 2010 and others in October 2010. In addition, we have 17 students participating in our shortened summer program this year; those who receive offers will begin working in January, 2011. We now have a strong pipeline of new associates in place for the foreseeable future….We are notifying our current summer associates about the January 2011 start date for any offers we extend within that group. We also are reaching out to law schools to let them know of our plans and to identify ways to continue to strengthen our on-campus presence in the interim.
Will firms like Morgan Lewis and Seyfarth Shaw continue to be outliers when it comes to skipping over an entire class of new associates? Or will more firms determine that the class of 2011 isn’t worth the trouble?
If the market rapidly improves, a firm like Seyfarth can probably pick up some class of 2011 candidates during 3L recruiting next year. It seems like firms are just trying to wait out the recession, just like everybody else.
Earlier: Nationwide Layoff Watch: Seyfarth Shaw Cuts 50, Cuts Salaries, Cuts Back on Summer Program
(72) Comments
Comments
First.
Damn, I REALLY wanted to work here. Now my life is hopeless. Fart.
is this a law firm?
most of these "clunkers" that the government is buying have had more work done than dyan cannon. sounds like another money loser for the feds and a winner for car dealers of every stripe.
yours,
nick nolte
Damn, and I thought graduating into the dot bomb was hard. Sucks to be graduating from law school these days!
i just realized i shouldnt have said that if i ever want to get good lakers seats again! sorry my dear dyan!
yours,
nick nolte
It' s interesting that two firms with mammoth labor & employment practices (Seyfarth and Morgan Lewis) have dropped out of hiring this Fall. The old notion that L&E work is counter cyclical appears to have died with the rest of the dionsaurs.
2,
I wonder if you can recover your tuition from Seyfarth, given that they had established a pattern of practice of hosting a summer program, amounting to an open promise to prospective law students. To now renege on that promise after the students incurred so much debt on that basis seems wrong to me. There must be some legal theory, can anyone help me out here?
2 - I can fart in your mouth.
How will this affect my ability to secure a wife of at least 3,500 square feet?
How you like me now?
Je ne comprend pas. Je suis de Cleveland.
More change you can believe in!
This move is rapidly becoming the norm. Next summer will be a barren wasteland for law student positions. There's no other reasonable way to bring in the current deferred students without cutting too much. This way, no summer program means no commitment to more useless first-years that you don't need along with the bad press of rescinding offers. Law firms can target their interviewing and hiring to specific applicants and avoid the wasteful excesses of the whole summer associate party.
Wake up people. Things are NOT going back to the way they used to be in biglaw.
I can't answer your question, 8, but it seems fairly clear that whatever cause of action may lie, Seyfarth will not be able to avail itself of the Good Samaritan defense.
13 - HOW is this Obama's fault? What exactly what McCain had done which would have meant that these internships would not have been lost??
Seyfarth and so-gone 2010's.
Someone please start a wall of shame with the names of all these firms.
How does this effect all of the sharting female associates from Boston?
http://americanmaestro.blogspot.com/2009/01/employment-scams-target-professionals.html
The real losers in this economy are the Career Services offices of top laws schools. They've been coasting for the past 5 years, offer no better advice than "use active voice verbs in your resumes." Now they actually have to start earning their paychecks.
@12, the proper expression is likely "je viens de Cleveland." Get your french right, dumb-A.
If the market rapidly improves??? Sure, and monkeys will fly ou tof my ass too.
OK, having thought about it some more, I have decided to suggest at my OCIs that I will work for a pay cut. Haven't worked out the numbers, but probably would say 25-30%. I probably would not do this at every OCI, but if I sense opportunity I will go for it. It is simple supply and demand, people. What have I got to lose?
24, go for it!
This is good news for law students. They won't be duped into accepting a summer internship with a TTT firm. Of course, they might also come to this realization on their first day of summering at Seyfarth when they have to provide a client-matter no. to get post-it notes from the office supply room.
18 - It's commonly referred to as Martindale Hubble
18 - It's commonly referred to as Martindale Hubble
21 got it right
The ship be sinking...
Elie - can you post a chart showing by what percentage the various firms conducting layoffs have shrunk? I'd be interested to know if any firms have decreased in total by more than 25%. Are these the same firms cancelling their summers?
22 - Your mother likes my French.
Is anyone else actually optimistic about this?
I just graduated as a 3L from a Top-14 summa cum laude without a job (got caught up in the mass of no-offerings last Summer).
At least this gives me hope that, at some point in the next 3-4 years, some firms may actually start hiring "outside" employees instead of drawing from a growing class of deferred summer associates.
It is a shame that a firm with such a strong L&E focus is struggling. That Executive Committee should take a look at the marketing leadership. Are they getting a good ROI? Even in tough times a firm like this should be able to survive without such severe belt tightening.
Someone please start a wall of shame with the names of all these firms.
Someone please start a wall of shame with the names of all these firms.
36/35 - Howza bout we tattoo them on your forehead?
12 - Unless you work for JD, there's a good chance that your employer is in even worse shape. And your French sucks.
I always wondered what the real point was of summer programs. Seriously, 2Ls do next to no real work and for the most part, everyone gets an offer unless they really fuck it up, so its not like the summer program 'weeds out' prospective associates that don't quite cut it. It always seemed that the summer programs were put in place in order to 'one-up' the competition for the 'best students', like the whole salary/bonus race.
Why not just cut out the whole summer program and interview/hire rising 3Ls (and base that on 2 years of grades, not just one) to suit your needs? Seriously, its not like 2 months of 'fake work' is going to convince anyone that a particular student will or won't make it as an associate any more than you can find out that same info in the first couple of months of them actually working as an associate.
Given what seems to be happening with some firms, cutting summer programs, going to merit based instead of lock-step pay, this may be the new way of doing business.
I tried to post a "Who gives a shit" comment to BoA story, but the comment thingy isn't working.
Sharts.
I tried to post a "First-- FUck you Mystal" to the BofA story, but I, too, was foiled.
40- I was gonna post a comment about how that four-sentence post has three errors. Fire Mystal. Ho hum.
22, 38 -oooh you've got mad French skills!! Which are about as useful as a torn condom.
I would love to comment on the subject matter of this post, but I am just too busy.
-Busy associate.
39 - I would prefer to hire someone based on 2 months of "fake work." "Fake work" is a much better gauge of someone's ability to practice law then the grades they got in torts or con law.
Yeah, 39, I'd way rather have the two months of "fake work." I've certainly seen summers get no-offered before even when the economy was booming, because they were manifestly uninterested in the work, incompetent or both. Summer programs are a much more useful measure than interviewing.
12 speaks french.22 studied it in college.
iowa guy
can anyone explain why firms need summer programs? is it just to compete with other firms to lure kids with good law school grades? if that is the case, could all firms abandon summer programs and hire toward the end of 3L year?
I call BS on 45. No such animal.
test
44 - who the hell wears a condom?
Seyfarth wants to swim with the big boys, but it remains a middling midwestern firm that lacks the juice to climb into the upper echelons. That results in a firm where the clients are small-time but the expectations for associates are akin to those in top firms. In other words, they want heavy billing, but the salaries and bonuses aren't there, and you're not working on good stuff. They're probably hoping like hell to get swallowed up by a bigger firm, but the emphasis on L&E makes them an unattractive merger candidate.
Avoid them like the plague.
53 has no idea what he's talking about
All these bucket shops that are cancelling programs and deferring classes are going to be the ones hiring bodies this time next year.
Just watch and wait. This is how poorly run businesses operate. In boom and bust cycles.
Dog bites man
Oops, I just Seyfarth Sharted in my Brooks Brothers dress pants.
16 - False dichotomy. McCain was a moderate loser; just because he would have also been bad doesn't mean Obama isn't an unmitigated disaster.
This firm isn't going to exist in the summer of 2010 anyway.
46/47 - So give the newly hired associate (based on a 3L interview) 'fake work' for the first two months and see how he/she does. If he does crap, fire him/her. Many places say that the first 3 months is provisional anyway, so just defer that provisional time from the summer program to the fall after graduation. Its not like the lawfirm has the new associate doing anything that requires bar passing, since bar results don't come out till Oct or Nov anyway. Start them in Sept., there ya go, 2 or 3 months of provisional 'fake work'.
53 and 55 - what's like to be as smart as you clearly are? Big firms should hire you guys as consultants. You clearly have a lot to offer.
To 59's point - would really like to see a post and comments betting pool as to which firms we think really won't be around in 18 months. Maybe folks weren't watching Heller close enough - how about a list of those at high risk based on all the news, partner departures, profit per partner reports, etc.
Ok, so do we need to rehash the debate about which class is the lost generation or can we all just finally agree that it is definitely the class of 2011. Seriously sucks to be them, although the class of 2008-2010 is not out of the woods yet (still time to lay them off in a Latham like slaughter).
61: Thanks for the offer, but I'm happily employed as in-house counsel at a multi-billion dollar company whose products are beloved around the world. Have a great day!
63 - large parts of the classes of 2002/3-2007 who have been laid off from biglaw will never make it back, and have resumes full of now-useless stuff that makes them "unemployable" to a lot of people now. There are tons of openings for junior/mid litigators right now at mid-sized firms. Unfortunately because I have 4.5 years of corporate work on my resume, I'm ineligible, even though I'd gladly make the switch right now.
The "lost generation" isn't just one or a few classes, it's anyone who has been laid-off from BigLaw in the past 10 months, too.
64- I can see why you're such an expert, and now thanks to your company's beloved products (Fleet Enemas), I will have a great day.
53 could not be less accurate. Every single sentence is the opposite of the truth. Take every sentence and make it the opposite, and you have a decent understanding of Seyfarth.
64- I can see why you're such an expert, and now thanks to your company's beloved products (Fleet Enemas), I will have a great day.
I love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about (economics in this case) pontificate on the economic health of other firms AND when law firms will hire again.
Please go back to being a lawyer instead of a crap economist.
Has anyone heard rumors that Latham laid off a bunch of laywers earlier this year? I find it very hard to believe.
70: That is the rumor. I think I've seen a post to that effect.
Funny email exchange between SS headhunter and potential candidate.
Wow,
Yes, it would be a very bad decision to hire an attorney that knows how to do the job without guidance AND be able to handle difficult projects efficiently.
I could be way off here, but sticking to rigid hiring policies that are contrary to basic economic principles, is a great way to keep law firms on the strong and steady path of financial health (as documented on www.abovethelaw.com). What was I thinking, law firms never want to save money.
It would never occur to such reasonable people that an "ex attorney" might actually prefer a paralegal job. Further, such intelligent people would not realize that paying less for more and better quality work could come in handy if an associate is sick, on maternity leave or just decides to leave the firm.
It is so selfish of me to think that the partner would spend time with this lowly "ex attorney" to hear why she would actually prefer to be a paralegal rather than an associate.
Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:23:58 -0400
From:
To:
Hi
I just heard back from Seyfarth, it looks like they decided to pass, unfortunately. The partner just does not want to consider ex attorneys (as she put it) for paralegal positions.
Sorry about that, I will definitely continue to keep you in mind should anything else come up. Also, I did receive the scan of the letter of recommendation, so I will definitely add that the file. Thanks.
Director of Legal Placement