still remember my first time like it was yesterday.....

Firms with reported offer rates at or near 100%:

Cravath
S&C
DPW
Debevoise
Dewey
Cahill
Ropes & Gray

first to an offer

Nice try 2.

-1

The Dean of Students is going to no offer your mom. And never call her again!

tell me about skadden secure.

Covington is at or near 100%.

Reminiscent of the fabled quartet that played on as the Titanic sank. Rest assured, the biglaw bubble is deflating.

Firms with reported offer rates at or near 100%:

Cravath
S&C
DPW
Debevoise
STB
Covington
Dewey
Cahill
Ropes & Gray
Kasowitz
V&E
Jones Day (NY)

Weil* (may have no-offered up to 10 SAs)

K&E NY here, slowly shitting myself, waiting for news.

sidleys not giving out its offers until labor day. gulp.

Heard GDC NYC offered close to 90-95% of summers

Heard GDC NYC offered 90-95% of summers

dear 1:

mine's better than yours.

sincerely,

2

PHJW promised offers this week, nothing yet. Moving slowly, like they're carrying a nice big bomb waiting to drop it.

What about Wachtell?

i know a dude at weil ny who seriously busted his ass this summer and got no-offered. f- that firm.

18: what reason did they give? school?

How do the attorneys who were stealthed at Davis Polk feel about the red carpet being rolled out for incoming associates?

11- How did a Boston girl like you end up in NY?

19: rather wouldn't say the school, for his sake. i don't know what exact reason they gave, but it couldn't have been a good one. i didn't summer there, but i know he was in there many weekends and nights. probably just bad luck in getting a poor evaluation by some dickhead partner. the funny thing is how much they were dropping on their summer program, with events and everything, and then they turn around and do this. weil is a shittily managed firm.

21 - I heard that all the shart fetishists lived there and thought it was my best bet to get my MRS.

Skadden handed out offers (at least in their Wilmington office). Any news on rate?

Mark my words, these offers are as empty as the U.S. Treasury after Obama's funding of his socialist programs. Let's be real here. Remember the old Popeye cartoons? Remember Wimpy? "I will pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today." Let us see how many of these offers turn into indefinite deferrals. It is shameful what these firms are doing just to appear to be of peer category.

22: if it was a review he should have at least had a heads up about it from his evaluation. that really sucks though.

Weil often no-offers some people (and has been doing it for years) and with good reason. Used to work there. Remember the no-offers. All deserved to be no-offers (recession or good economy, some people deserve to be no-offered).

27 - that doesn't explain their reported 99/100% NALP offer rates.

Firms should no-offer people. The SA program is meant to be an internship of sorts. By the way, the fact that a site like ATL can potentially impact a firm's offer rates shows the disregard firms actually have for their financial position.

I'm an associate at Weil NY. I believe 5-7 SAs got no-offered (definitely wasn't 10). I don't know why we assume 100% SAs should get offers. I worked with a bunch that sucked and they all got offers. The only 2 I know that didn't get offers didn't deserve to get offers. I think 90-95% is strong, considering it could've been much lower.

PE,

If I summered at a non-peer firm, should I reinterview with peer firms this fall?

how many SAs at Weil?

Kramer, Levin, Naftalis, & Frankel gave offers to 100% of their summer associates (about 25).

23, if you're an actual girl, no Mrs for you, gross.

i know some firms that still havent told their summers...

32: I can't remember, but it was b/t 90-100. 95 or 96 maybe?

Weil DC was killed.

24-

Definitely not 100%.

Firms with reported offer rates at or near 100%:

Cravath
S&C
DPW
Debevoise
STB
Covington
Dewey
Cahill
Ropes & Gray
Kasowitz
V&E
Jones Day (NY)
Kramer Levin

Weil* (reportedly no-offered between 5 and 7 SAs)

I hope my firm no offers a few folks. One guy I worked with was one of the more miserable people I have ever met. Kid was on facebook all day and would ask senior associates to find a file for him. What a joker.

Talk about spitting in the face of the associates who were laid off by these firms mere months ago!

I hear V&E DC went 12 for 16 with their summers...

The word on the street is that Bingham McCutchen only gave 2 offers to their ~10 summer associates in NY and that they plan to only give about 75% offers to their Boston office summers.

40: i hope my firm fires a few ass-clown junior associates before i get there.

I hear V&E DC went 12 for 16 with their summers...

22: I certainly call Weil management into question from time to time, but for the most part the people are great.

It does seem like everyone is swamped, though, so it's clearly an extremely conservative place.

As a v10 NYC SA with an offer in hand, I think this post is too cheerful. As summers at other firms have learned, getting an offer means jack squat ITE.

V&E Houston 30/78 got offers.

When are these people supposed to start??? Deferred?

Waiting for the Jones Day Kool-Aid drinkers to proclaim that 147% of its SAs received offers.

Update (3:20 PM): We're also hearing at or near 100 percent offer rates for:

-- Debevoise & Plimpton (New York)

-- Skadden (New York).

You're right, 34, girls don't poo, how could I forget? Also, watch the memes.

When are the start dates???? Do these offer letters say fall 2010? January 2011 "at the earliest"?? 2012 or later?? These offers don't mean anything if the firms never let them start!

POST NEWS ON THE START DATES!

K&L Gates (NY) was 100%.

Dear OCI-Bound 2Ls:

While layoffs and deferrals are reasons to be skeptical of a firm, no-offer rates are probably the number 1 factor you should use when picking a firm in this awful economy. Trust me, a deferred offer or possibility of a future layoff is a lot more attractive than a firm that no-offers undeserving summers. A no offer in this economy is a career death sentence because it leaves you with 150k in debt, no experience, and a black mark on your resume all with no light at the end of the tunnel. If you are lucky enough to have the option, be wary of those firms that stray too far from their norm this season.

48--where are you getting your information?

We all worry incessantly about getting offers. Once (if) we get them, we worry incessantly about start dates. Once (if) we start working, we worry incessantly about layoffs. What a profession.

Weil NY was 91 out of 97.

Some chick just sharted on me in the elevator.

I got an offer from Heller Ehrman's ghost.

Skadden secured?

Firms with informally reported offer rates at or near 100%:

Cravath
S&C
DPW (100%)
Debevoise (100%)
STB
Skadden NY (100%)
Covington
Dewey
Cahill
Ropes & Gray
Kasowitz
V&E NY
Jones Day NY
Kramer Levin (100%)
K&L Gates NY (100%)

Weil* (reportedly no-offered between 5 and 7 SAs)

#53,

Kramer Levin gave 100% offers and is expecting an October 2010 start date for the class of 2010 (though obviously any firm could alter the start date at some point in the future based on then-current economic conditions).

How to Avoid a Hiring Bottleneck? Do Like Vinson & Elkins and Set Multiple Start Dates

Posted by Rachel Breitman

Staggered start dates have enabled Vinson & Elkins to avoid a lengthy deferral period for the firm's fall 2009 and fall 2010 incoming associate classes. As reported on the blog of The Texas Lawyer, a sibling publication, V&E hiring partner Thomas Leatherbury says his firm's 50 incoming associates for 2009 will be split evenly between two start dates, one in November and a second in January 2010. Three months ago the firm gave its hires the option of choosing a start date.

Leatherbury tells The Am Law Daily that start dates for current summer associates who are offered jobs will be no later than January 2011.

"I wouldn't be surprised if we have multiple start dates again," says Leatherbury, "but it's too early to know for sure."

And despite the fact that he's been one of the most outspoken advocates of pushing back on-campus interviewing until winter or spring, Vinson & Elkins lawyers will be on campuses this fall, as will hiring lawyers from several other firms.

"We'll have a summer program again, but it may be smaller than the 127 2Ls we had this year," says Leatherbury.

48, I am relatively certain the number was actually between 40 and 50 of 78. The Dallas office was 13/19.

47 has it right. I have an offer too but I can't even get excited about it. No clue if/when I'll start.

Any word on Lowenstein Sandler in Jersey?

Any word on Lowenstein Sandler in Jersey?

Any word on PHJW?

As PW summers wait with trepidation for Friday...

Cravath gave 100% offers. Then it followed up with a "special" offer on top. Expect all peer firms to follow.

Obama, Reid, Pelosi & Adolf, LLP made offers, but they took away health insurance benefits.

PE tweeted this today:

Career advice: 1. Heed your elders. 2. Empathy = weakness. 3. Firm before family.

52, it's not about the poo, it's about the visual and your mouth; gross. guys aren't into that. but you know what, hell, this is an anonymous comment site, so why the hell not say it like you shouldn't in real life....

S&C SAs were told that start dates are October or November 2010. Rumors of a couple of cold offers, but the offer rate was effectively 100%.

1-74 = fail

PE tweeted this today:

Career advice: 1. Heed your elders. 2. Empathy = weakness. 3. Firm before family.

GDC won't give offers until Labor Day.

The offer rate exceeded 100% at Skadden.

78 - GDC (LA) already made offers

why does no one here even get that the "offers" are either cold ones or just for saving face before the inevitable deferral of start dates???? okay, sorry sorry sorry. to much reality ......

Any word from Quinn??

PE already has a huge following on Twitter.

White & Case no offers to students of TTT NY law schools (Fordham, Brooklyn, Syracuse, Cardozo)

K&E and PW are both holding off on offers. Why are the firms that are doing the best in the downturn waiting?

Firsty!!!!

Firsty!!!!

Tell me more, 84...

Alston & Bird pushed back when SAs will find out...probably not a good sign

78 - GDC already made offer decisions firmwide.

78 - GDC already made offer decisions firmwide.

74, I'm confused. Sharts don't come out my mouth! Do you mean sweet little girls shouldn't talk about shit or asses, farts or anal leakage, fetishes or fecal accidents because prudish, insecure, WASPy twits like you find that threatening and unattractive?

GDC NYC gave offers.

Gibson Dunn NY was 42 out of 44, not including splitters.

No news of deferral yet. Class of 2009 is starting November 15 as of now.

Wow, I'm shocked at the horrid offer rates for V&E. That is atrocious.

PE might not be running @PE, but @PE @replied to me and it was a very nice chuckle.

Second!!!

A list of firms that have deferred the decisions on offers should be made.

Alston & Bird
Dechert
?
?
?

94 - That means they no-offered splitters, what was the total count?

The PE twitter feed is real, and it is hilarious!

Where are these people getting their numbers for 5-7 at Weil? It is very well known at the firm that exactly 9 summers were no-offered. There were just under 100 summers. Since about 7 of the summers were returning 1Ls who already had offers, that means 9 out of 90 were no-offered. I wouldn't call that "near 100 percent," especially with the offer rate at other V10 firms.

99 -

Not sure about the splitters. Doubt they received word from the NY office.

PHJW said they weren't giving offers until all offices had finished their summer programs...so summers won't hear until after this week at the earliest.

Who is PE?

92- What you need is an Irish-Catholic man. They love sharts.

Do firms call or send letters?

Wachtell hasn't finished it's summer program yet so they haven't made offer decisions...

Cravath did not have 100% offers. A classmate of mine at UPenn was no offered.

How is GDC NY going to absorb all the newbies coming this fall? There are ~220 lawyers in that office and ~40 new people starting this November.

108 - what were the circumstances? poor performance/slacking?

92 - threatening? eh maybe a little bit depending on the context. unattractive? absolutely.

- not 74

Crazy that there are already offers in hand. Twelve week program over here, and just finishing up the twelfth week.

108 - Cravath took terrible people from Penn (for the most part).

There are a few I would love to have seen no offered by Cravath. HA!

92--I'm not a guy; i'm a girl. I happened to notice what you said and, having spent a lot of time hanging out with guys, I felt comfortable speaking for them. But perhaps I am mistaken. Maybe the actual guys here can give you their take. Regardless, 105 hit the nail on the head.

PE wrote that tips of 15% should be for exceptional service only. Is that pre-tax or after tax?

"If you continue to publish summer offer rate stories, both good and bad, the site may be able to contribute to a higher summer offer percentage."

This is utterly ridiculous. When the economy is booming, firms are free and easy with their offers because the market favors law students - everyone needs bodies to do the work, everyone competes for applicants. When the work is slow and the lateral market is DEAD, hiring needs shrink. Offer rates drop accordingly. It's not in anyone's best interest to pressure a firm with, what? publicity? into offering people over and above what it thinks it can support going forward. If the firm overhires first years, guess who will be first in line for the chopping block when layoffs become inevitable (a point, by the way, that will be accelerated by hiring too many bodies in the first place).

114=74

Jesus Christ, this thread makes me want to vomit. Let me repeat what hasn't been said enough here: if you show excellent legal acumen you WILL get an offer, nuff said. I don't care if you go Harvard (if you do, you're social skills are probably so terrible that you will get no offered anyway), or if you go to a "TTT" (although I'm a firm believer that the degree doesn't make the man, the man makes the degree), if, during the course of the summer, you demonstrated that you are smart enough to battle it out with heavyweights, you are safe. Period.

By the way, I DID get an offer (V35), and plenty of people didn't at my firm. But I'll tell you what, on day 1, I could almost tell you the non-offers were going to be. Law is the ultimate meritocracy, and I laugh at all you "elite" law students who are getting destroyed by so called TTT's like me.

118 - name of firm and offer rate?

I will join twitter just for PE

118: you're != your. ywia.

Look suckers, what good is a 100% offer rate if all of them will deferred or laid off before your piss can reach the water. What a fucking joke. You guys are well and truly fucked.

any word on CWT?

122=correct.

what about Proskauer? They haven't no-offered anyone yet...

I am a Seton Hall summer at Orrick and I haven't heard anything yet. Should I be scared?

Let me spell it out for you, 122. OCI is coming up. 3L OCI, even. Now, I know that any offer I get at OCI is almost as worthless as any offer I may have at the end of the summer, but when I walk into that interview room I want to have an offer in my hands, not just my dick and a smile. Interviewers know as well as I do that offers are unstable, but they also know that if I got an offer, I'm probably not a retard. This puts me ahead of the poor shlubs who didn't get offers, for whom the retard question is tragically open during interviews. Capice?

105 is racist.

109 -

GDC had a 2.5:1 associate:partner ratio this year, unlike most peer firms (sorry, PE), which were leveraged between 4:1 to 8:1 (this info is available on a law.com article somewhere). 5 partners joined GDC NY recently from other firms. There's room for more associates, though it's doubtful that they will take anywhere close to 50 SAs for next summer. It seems that firms have decided to make the Class of 2011 the one most screwed by the economy.

126=Orrick partner

128=lame

Cravath has never been particularly selective at Penn. They love Penn and take a huge bunch every yr, winding up with pretty much the entire top 1/4 of the class who were hungry enough to pick the Vault #2 over better firms (like Davis, Debevoise, Cleary....)

Any Chicago firms make offers yet? Sidley is making decisions in late August.

122 = bitter laid off associate.

129 - Thanks, that makes sense. I saw those partner hires but didn't make the connection. -109

V15 Firms (info pulled from this thread)

DPW (at 100)
Debevoise (at 100)
Skadden NY (at 100)
STB (at or near 100)
Covington (at or near 100)
S&C (near 100)
Cravath (near 100)

Wachtell (TBD)
Cleary (TBD)
Kirkland (TBD)
Paul Weiss (TBD)
Williams & Connolly (TBD)
Sidley (TBD)

Latham (after what they pulled, who cares)

Good god. Boston must be so smelly during the summer. Do chicks there wear dresses despite their chronic sharting?

any news on the offer rates at the latham, gdc, om, irell, munger, and phjw in la?

110 - the work my classmate did was fine, but there was an argument between the classmate and their assigned partner. I don't know exactly what the argument was about and I am not saying the no-offer was or was not deserved, I was only pointing out that Cravath did not have 100% offers

"Law is the ultimate meritocracy...."

LOL!

118, you have a lot to learn.

No, 128, it's the simple truth. As everyone knows, Boston girls are a major source of shart production in the US. Anyone who has ventured into the hell-hole of Allston-Brighton can verify this. These sharts come almost exclusively from locals, or "townies" as they are known in the Boston area. Townies are predominately Irish-Catholic.

I'm not saying that all Irish-Catholics are shart-lovers, but all shart-lovers happen to be Irish-Catholic.

105

48 is correct.

Latham is making offers today- not enough infor for offer rates yet.

Latham is making offers today- not enough info for offer rates yet.

I hear Fenwick & West will have a 50% no-offer rate. They had way too many summer associates this summer.

107 is right. Wachtell usually waits until September to make offers.

Bloodbath @ Nixon Peabody DC.

Has anyone heard about Baker Botts or Fulbright? Were their offer rates similar to V&E?

Now that Elie is at home eating bon bons and watching BET, we have much less contentious race baiting articles. I like it. Lets keep it that way.

Fight the Power.

148, expect similar numbers from BB, buddy in the know told me they were offering between 50% and 80% (the latter resulting in straight cold offers).

149=funny

If PW was waiting to see how similarly positioned firms offered, I think this post is the answer.

PW to 100% offer rate...

offer percentages are almost worthless without start dates. So, are there any start dates to correspond with these percentages?

Paul Hastings NY has given out offers to about half the class so far.

Firms with informally reported offer rates at or near 100% (info culled from this post and comments):

DPW (100%)
Debevoise (100%)
Kramer Levin (100%)
K&L Gates NY (100%)
Skadden NY (100%)
Dewey (100%)
Cravath
S&C
Covington
STB
Cahill
Ropes & Gray
Kasowitz
V&E NY
Jones Day NY
Quinn NY

Weil* (reportedly no-offered between 5 and 9 SAs)

154 - are they making calls now or something?

154 -- when have they called?

WGWAG

Dewey HR dept should be more discreet about bashing their hires. Just a suggestion.

Quinn L.A. has given no offers to several of the summers so far

man, i feel so sorry for you guys. honestly really do. but life has its challenges. look at it this way, you'll have found something to do for which you get money by the time you're wrinkly. so, it's okay.

V15 Firms:

DPW (at 100)
Debevoise (at 100)
Skadden NY (at 100)
STB (at or near 100)
Gibson Dunn (near 100)
Covington (at or near 100)
S&C (near 100)
Cravath (near 100)

Wachtell (TBD)
Cleary (TBD)
Kirkland (TBD)
Paul Weiss (TBD)
Williams & Connolly (TBD)
Sidley (TBD)

162 - GDC (LA) was NOT near 100

Any word on B&M?

I've heard that MoFo - NY gave out offers to 100%.

Any word on Linklaters?

Any info on California firms? Latham? O'Melveny?

Calls were made yesterday and today.

-154

DPW and Debevoise look like the kings of NYC right now - elite firms AND 100% offer rates. 2Ls if you get offers there, consider yourselves lucky and take one of them.

Honorable mention to Dewey, 100% was really a surprise.

If a firm gives offers to 100% of its summers but then defers 50% of its offerees to 2012, can ATL bump this thread later on and let us rescind our congrats?

Willkie NY is calling right now.

139 brings up a good point. If you're a summer associate and you get in an ARGUMENT with a partner, you are a fucking moron! Honestly, how stupid do you have to be to decide that the cause for which you're fighting is worth arguing with a partner over. 1) You're probably not right; 2) You're going to get no-offered; 3) Everyone at the firm will think you're an idiot.

From my experience this summer at a V50 firm in NYC, those of us who had work experience before law school knew that the most important thing not to fuck up at any job isn't the work product (because you will learn that on the job); it's how you relate with and deal with co-workers, especially superiors. Those who went straight through from college never learned that nugget of wisdom.

148&150: Baker Botts in Houston has made offers and rejections to some, but not all, SAs. I would be surprised if their rates resembled V&E's. Their summer class was less than half the size of V&E's. V&E really screwed up this summer. I doubt they'll do that again.

WilmerHale Boston = 100%, i think

174: what are you basing that on?

What about Philly firms? I saw Dechert is deferring the decision but what of the others like Duane Morris, Cozen O'Connor, and Pepper Hamilton?

What about Philly firms? I saw Dechert is deferring the decision but what of the others like Duane Morris, Cozen O'Connor, and Pepper Hamilton?

163, please elaborate, thanks.

163 - how many were no-offered?

Ropes & Gray is the firm deserving mention. Usually a market follower, Ropes paved the way before all of these other firms followed suit. Not only did they make 100% offers, but the firm had a fun summer program, with summers not crazed and ravenous worried about offers.

PHLA no-offered several summers. they are all a bunch of liars there

181- DESCRIBE the lying

V & E HOUSTON. Bunch of liars. All the other Texas firms in Houston didn't screw a bunch of law students. VE openly lied to us. They had about 80 summers this years and gave less then 30 offers.

I cannot believe how TTT their program was. Besides having no work and no activities for the summers, they basically screwed more than half of the "class." VE is NOT A CLASS ACT. NEVER FORGET!

Willkie DC - 100%.

Dallas got crushed - 40 to 60% offer rate seems common.

Are those numbers correct about V&E Houston? Seems too ridiculous to be true.

There are law firms in Philadelphia?

The numbers don't seem too low because the class was double the size of any other class.

Can anyone confirm MoFo NY?

PH NY just no-offered a bunch of summers.

Any word on when McDermott Will & Emery will make offers, if they'll defer, etc??

OMM apparently won't make offers until next Friday at the earliest.

K&L GaTTTes NY gave out 100% offers, but they don't start until February 2025.

183, what on what you basing the "less than 30 offers" statement? Did an associate tell you this, or are you simply guessing?

It's rather sad, but I think much of it came down to luck of the draw: associates with whom one worked, partners with whom one worked, and departments in which one worked. But c'mon, it's pretty petty and unfair to bash V&E for a relative lack of extravagant summer events given the economy.

PH NY has given out all the offers that are forthcoming. Otherwise, check your mailboxes.

Play those V&E summers off Keyboard Cat!

195 - PH doesn't even have the decency to call its no-offers?

I think it makes great sense to defer giving offers. It signals that the firm wants to have a better understanding of the market and take more time to consider each summer associate's performance. This is great news for those of you who worked hard and proved that you will make a good lawyer.

Further, the economy appears to be on an upswing, but the firms deferring their decisions are being responsible by waiting to see if this will be a "w recession." I think that is a very good thing.

194

It's not petty to bash VE because unlike other firms which did not cut back, VE cutback and still gave very few offers. VE is TTT and the ship be sinking. Go back to billing for VE and pray you keep your job. I hope you get enough work to pay for your 3 series.

183-

I understand you're upset, but the rumors of less than 30 offers is flat out untrue. While their offer rate was substantially lower than in recent years, they had to do what made economic sense. And offering 70 2L's simply wasn't a smart business decision. Could they have done things differently? Yes, they could have given fewer offers to join the summer program. They would admit that, but what can they do about it now? Give 70 offers and hope people don't show up or fire them when they do?

Fyi, there were roughly 50 offers out of the 70-something 2L's.

V&E had over 70 summers, while BB had around 30. It is true that BB hasn't reported all offers yet, but offers have been made to all of BB's 1L summers: 6/7 were given offers.

180- I agree with you that Ropes in Boston paved the way for 100%. However, I had friends at Ropes in Boston, and I don't think they would describe the summer program as "fun" with people not overly nervous.

LOL, see comment 64, which cuts and pastes from an article describing how V&E has successfully avoided a hiring bottleneck. Surprisingly it doesn't list "throw half of your summers under the bus" as a suggested tactic.

WilmerHale Boston gave offers to all the summers I've spoken to so far. Seems like we're at 100%.
Ropes Boston did give everyone (or almost everyone) offers, but their summer program was only so-so.

Don't most SAs in TX split - so it may be that some of the no-offers from V&E were second-half splits.

I think Wilmer DC is close to 100%. I heard someone got their offer last week.

Are the no-offers coming by way of rejection letter or rejection phone call?

fucking. mention. cahill. what the hell do you have against this firm. You mentioned them in the earlier post, yet you wouldn't mention them in your follow up post?

Obvious bias. Fuck you.

205: no, V&E allowed splits, but only if V&E was the first more-than-half. No 2nd half summers there.

201.

Roughly 50. More like fewer than 30.

Why are they the only firm in Houston to extend an astronomically inflated number of offers. Myopic as it was, they should have seen other firms, like BB, making prudent business decisions, not throwing students under the bus. How is a law student to know that the firm is over extending itself when the firm lies and refuses to respond to anyone about it.

Also, who cares what they've done for 1Ls. You can't count that in your "roughly 50". Show me that it's not 30 or fewer. Otherwise, continue inflating your hours and paying off your g37. clown.

147 - What happened at Nixon Peabody DC?

211 - Everyone was a winner.

PSA. PSA.

VE= Offer rate of less than 50%. Take note now future summers. Go to BB or some other firm.

210,

How would you like me to prove that its not lower than 30? Give you a list of every single person who got an offer on an ATL comment thread? Not going to happen.

whoa. 210 - it's 201. I'm at BB; the "roughly 50" came from 200, probably at V&E. My comment about the 6/7 1L offers referred to BB. chill out and read more carefully.

210,

you are just wrong. it was well over 30, most likely over 40...

By not using sketchy language like "roughly 50".

Did you "roughly" bill 2000 hours last year?

Do you "roughly" cheat on your wife?

212, I'm pretty sure that not everyone was a winner. Time for a new theme song.

Firms with informally reported offer rates at or near 100% (info culled from this post and comments):

DPW (100%)
Debevoise (100%)
Kramer Levin (100%)
K&L Gates NY (100%)
Skadden NY (100%)
Dewey (100%)
Willkie DC (100%)
Ropes Boston (100%)
Cravath
S&C
Covington
STB
Cahill
Kasowitz
V&E NY
Jones Day NY
Quinn NY
WilmerHale Boston

213-

Do you realize that last year almost everyone who got offers from BB and VE (at least the UT students) chose VE? That's why they had so many (the UT students chose them for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was that BB no offered half of their UT students in 2008).

Telling all the students to go to BB is moronic - if they all did that, do you think BB would suddenly make room for their entire inflated summer class? This is an imprecise science.

VE= THROWS SUMMERS UNDER THE BUS. AT best a 50% offer rate.

"Roughly" 40, if you include 1Ls. 30 if you don't include 1Ls.

So no good news out of any Bay Area offices? Or too early to say?

220:

billing hours is an imprecise science. figuring out that you should be cautious in extending offers for the summer (i.e. not having the largest summer class ever in the worst economy in years) is obvious.

continue billing your "rough" hours. enjoy that 3 series when you get your balloon payment in the mail from autoflex leasing.

They only had 4 1Ls, I think.

224: lest we forget that they had 70+ summers.

I think we need to post these everywhere:

www.antiobamasticker.com

Tell the world Obama's a "dOuche."

Did DLA Piper give out any offers yet? Will it be another 50% year?

Regarding the Ropes summer program, I can only speak for the NY office. The SAs really bonded and would always talk about how relieved they were that the class wasn't competitive. They seemed to have a great summer

STB gave offers to start next fall to 100% of its SAs.

STB, Cleary, and Debevoise must be full of poop. No way they should be able to continue with business as usual ITE.

PE is a living god.

Cleary and Debevoise are the new V 2 and 3, respectively.

230 - STB had a much smaller summer program than previous years so it's not really business as usual

Cleary hasn't communicated offer decisions yet. Neither has Paul Weiss.

This website sucks

Where are those damn rankings? They were out by now last year.

231 is a living idiot.

What about Weil DC?

What was GDC's offer rate by office?

anyone know about GDC-DC?

Wow, 199. With respect to you, at least, V&E made an excellent choice. Hopefully judges and future employers make equally good choices, and you're left scrabbling to pay off student loans with pennies saved from working as a walmart cashier. Best of luck. You seem like the type who will need it.

VE Houston offered 41 - that probably includes 1Ls, of which there were 4. There were 79 total summers. They said you needed to come to VE first if you split, but that was simply not true. Lots of people came second, and for less than the 8 weeks they said we had to come. VE actually penalized those who stayed longer, because any negative comment meant you were out. That means that those who stayed longer had more of a chance of not getting an offer. It was not necessarily based on doing good work, but on the luck of the draw on not getting matched up with associates who didn't like the way you dressed or did your hair.

Any news from MoFo SF/SV? Skadden SF? Quinn SF/SV?

Cravath did NOT give 100% offers. I can vouch for that. I also know that DPW gave 100% offers.

What about Weil non-ny offices? And what kind of schools for NY no offers?

any news from the LA firms? quinn? omm? latham?

What happened to the 10 or 11 students that spent their 1L year at V&E and were originally scheduled to come back in their 2L summer after the summer program officially ended? Weren't those people told they were still under consideration, but they would be considered based off their 1L performance? Does that mean there were actually 90 2L's under consideration?

akin gump houston?

242 - VE required only five weeks anytime during the program dates for returning SAs. So, yes, some people did come "second half" but at no time was it intimated that everyone had to come for a minimum eight weeks. If you recall, the few returning SAs who were told that they could stay later than July 17th were later informed sometime in late-March/early-April that they needed to move up their start dates or lose their offers to return. That was covered quite heavily on ATL.

I agree with most of the posters here, however, that VE "acted stupidly" with having so many summers in Houston.

PS--I'm not sure where the information came from that most SAs who have the opportunity to choose between BB and VE end up choosing VE. That's a very limited group of people. Given that BB and VE are so similar, I doubt that there's a lesson to be drawn from the very small number of people who choose one over the other.

247, pretty safe to assume none of those people were given offers. Also, I think that was a firm wide number.

I'll be interested to see how these numbers are reported to NALP when they are officially released. Some people saying 30 some in the low 40's, it will be interesting to see which is accurate.

I am curious if people who split between Houston V&E and another V&E office got offers to both. Even if they didn't I bet V&E reports them getting offers to both. That could skew the numbers by 10 offers or so.

Does V&E do cold offers?

Gibson Dunn offer letters are for 4th quarter 2010, no deferral. Also hearing pretty high offer rate -- spoken to 15+ summers at various offices and all have offers. GDC no attorney layoffs, close to 100% offers, no deferrals. Are there more than a few other firms that can say the same?

252 - ask GDC LA recruiting what their offer percentage was. you may want to revise your statement afterwards.

253 - What are you hearing? I'm only piecing together information from friends (and friends of friends) at various offices...

Kirkland NY Summers, how was your summer experience? How was Kirkland NY? Which departments were busy, which were slow? Overall was the office optimistic or pessimistic? Overall did they treat summers well or poorly?

250, I was one of those students considered solely off my 1L work, and I got a full time offer. So, yes, (to 247) we were under consideration. The total number of 2L's was well over the 79 or whatever 2L's who actually spent time working at V&E this summer.

While I hope it does end up being at 100%, Covington has not given any offers yet. They're waiting until all of the summers are gone, and there's still one left.

How is the patent litigation department at Paul Hastings NY, busy or slow, good or bad? How are Wexler and O'Malley to work for, good or bad?

191,

McDermott sucks goat balls. The firm let go of some real good first years to compensate that its partners couldn't bring in any rain. To steal a few now famous words from a former MWE partner: the firm is "a few french fries short of a happy meal" on just about every level.

former income partner who is pissed at the firm for doing just about everything wrong.

254: I have heard information consistent with this thread

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1061607&mc=2&forum_id=2

252 = that guy?

A firm that gives 90% offers with a somewhat realistic possibility of starting in fall 2010 is far more deserving of praise than a firm that gives 100% offers with an indefinite start date no earlier than January 2011.

262 - tell that to 10% whose professional lives are ruined and suffer years of debt-riddled depression. douche.

Wiley Rein gave offers to some to start fall 2010 and deferred the start dates of others.

258: Although I'm not in this group, I know they're busy. I'm told that the partners are always complaining about PH's rates. PH just raised their rates again on July 1, which makes 5 rate increases in a little over a year.

Dunno about the numbers, but just from talking to other summers in the program V&E no-offered a ton of kids. A lot of the offers that they did give out seem random at best.

263 - tell that to the indefinite number of people who received "offers" but who will never actually start

Just got off phone with friend that works in Dallas.

Just heard that Hunttton Williams Dallas = 1 offer. No word on class size.
CCSB = 3/9. Also seems to have went through a round of layoffs.
Akin Dallas = 50% offer rate.
GTrau Dallas = 2 offers. No word on class size.
Jackson Walker = 30% offer rate.

Jackson Walker Dallas has definitely not given any offers yet. They still have summers there.

About the useless Dewey kid - he really was useless. What the firm is thinking is beyond me.

What about Philly firms? Dechert, Drinker Biddle, Pepper Hamilton, Morgan Lewis...???

271
Dechert won't make any hiring decision before the end of August. They will definitely no offer a significant number of summers, as we were told at the end of summer review.
Dont know other Philly firms.

265 - We're all afraid they will pick up their toys and leave. That would spell the end of PH's NY office.

Any word on bay area offices--MoFo, PH, Quinn, etc.?

any word on v&e's other offices -- austin, dc, etc?

I worked at a large firm in Texas, they told me they could not make me an offer now, maybe in November or December, but they made offers to other summers. What a shitty answer, they didn't have the guts to even say no. So now what am I supposed to tell potential employers if I interview with them? "Hey they said they might hire me so they didn't say no, but obviously I was not good enough for a yes. You want to make me an offer even though this other firm left me hanging?"

I bet I am not the only one who got shafted. I worked my balls off for the firm, got along with everyone, finished all my work ahead of schedule, this is such BS. What am I going to tell my wife? I can sleep well at night though knowing I have more balls than the damn hiring partner at the firm I worked at. Yeah, I am bitter.

How many offers did PHJW's NY office make? How do you know they aren't making any additional offers?

276 - what reason did they give? did you have no warning? that is pretty messed up.

276- which firm?

265 and 273,

What are Wexler and O'Malley like to work for? What are their internal reputations?

273,

Why are you afraid they will leave? Are they unhappy there? Have Wexler and O'Malley talked with other firms?

278-

No warning, no reason. They said they liked me and my work. I got along well with everyone, no problems at all. I can only guess at this point, economy? I do not know how many other summers got offers, have not heard from them yet, just saw one on facebook who mentioned they got an offer. I hate that guy right now.

I am going to drink some cheap beer and watch some porn for now, forget about this $100,000 of debt and the job that almost was.

242-

Your information is completely wrong.

V&E Houston had 73 2L's and 4 1L's. 3 of the 1L's got offers. And 50 2L's got offers, a 70% offer rate.

V&E's offer rate in Houston was low, and they were forced to no offer people that are excellent candidates who they would have taken any other year. But so is every other firm in Texas - there will surely be some firms with a higher offer rate than 70% in Texas, but I'd be willing to be that most don't. So far K&L Gates has been 50%, Baker McKenzie 75% (3 out of 4 people), Bracewell was sub 50%... things are not looking good for the firms that still haven't announced.

I understand that you're bitter, and rightfully so. But you should get your facts straight before you post.

282 - How do you know about Bracewell???

283-

Bracewell Houston called all of the summer associates yesterday.

Remember when TX BigLawyers bragged about the 160k paycheck with lower COL? Guess it wasn't sustainable after all.

this is silly. instead of no offering a bunch of summers, this is an awesome oppty to shed some dead weight -- and DON"T pretend that there's not plenty of dead weight around at law firms. Any FT lawyer can name at least 5 people who are totally incompetent and don't belong there but somehow slipped through during the good times b/c the firm needed someone who could read to do due diligence/doc review.

but for some idiotic reason, "lay offs" are sooooo bad -- let's no-offer a bunch of summers instead!

282 - not bitter - just going off of my handbook from this summer and what I was told when they no-offered me.

282 is right on.

Firms with informally reported offer rates at or near 100% (info culled from this post and comments):

DPW (100%)
Debevoise (100%)
STB (100%)
Kramer Levin (100%)
K&L Gates NY (100%)
Skadden NY (100%)
Dewey (100%)
Willkie DC (100%)
Ropes Boston (100%)
Cahill (near or at 100%)
Kasowitz (near or at 100%)
V&E NY (near or at 100%)
Jones Day NY (near or at 100%)
Quinn NY (near or at 100%)
WilmerHale Boston (near or at 100%)
Cravath (near 100%)
S&C (near 100%)

Any news on Weil DC?

Re GDC (LA)--How far from 100% are we talking? And even though the firm has done fairly well in the recession, couldn't the lower offer rate have to do with the fact that the firm has not laid off attorneys and didn't take a significantly smaller summer class this year (at least in LA)? Surely GDC is feeling the effects of decreased demand, just as every other firm is.

282 is off - no way 50 2Ls were offered.

282 was right about Bracewell though, they are below 50%.

Fulbright Houston = 80% offers

282 is a troll. VE offered 31 2Ls full time work. they also extended offers to 4 of the 4 1Ls who worked there.

the number of women who received offers is very low.

overall, VE messed up taking on a giant class. the biggest in the state, no doubt. work is slow and they refused to admit that numbers were bad. in fact, they told summers that work was plentiful and that money was flowing in and everyone qualified to get an offer would.

they lied. people suffered. now the partners have to decide if they did the right thing when they go home. who am i kidding? the partners are gutless and heartless.

When does NALP update their numbers in the online directory? I know they probably do it annually, but what month?

295-

Your assertion that four of four 1L's got offers makes you untrustworthy. 1 of the 2 1L's from UT did not get an offer to return at VE Houston.

-282

I don't care if you say I'm a troll, I'm just trying to give people the information. Do with it what you wish.

296 - February

297 is a troll, regardless there is no way more than 40 2Ls got offers, V&E is batting 40% at best. When you have the biggest class you screw a lot of people with that percentage.

Why did VE NY give 100% offers if the offer rate in Houston was so low?

227,

Whatever the offer rate it is, DLA can seriously go screw themselves -

Laid Off 1st Year from DLA

227,

Whatever the offer rate is, DLA can seriously go screw themselves -

Laid Off 1st Year from DLA

299-

You're an idiot. First you say that no more than 40 2L's got offers and then you say that no more than 40% got offers. Do you realize that even if only 40 2L's got offers, that would be an offer rate of 55%? There's no denying that there were 73 2L's at VE Houston this summer - that's one thing that can be easily verified.

273 - PH associate here. It's rumored that they're shopping other firms due to the rate issue. Their pharma clients are really unhappy with PH's sky high rates.

297/282 - how many students who were part of the 1L group from last year that didn't spend time at V&E this summer were under consideration for full time offers?

303-

No you are wrong. There were 79 summer associates at V&E Houston.

303-

Of those 79, 73 actually worked, 6 were given consideration for their work as 1Ls. HTH.

why are people saying that cravath gave near 100% offers when there is mandatory deferral to sept 2011??? that's not really an "offer." that's a scam!

it's retarded to say that you have "offer" for anything that doesn't take effect for over 2 years!!

I heard summer at Paul Hastings was a nightmare. The SA's were constantly told that not all of them would get offers which made them hyper competitive. At the beginning of the summer the SA's actually got a handout of inspirational sayings, all of which basically went something like there is life after you fail.

If nothing else I can confirm that V&E told the summers on more than one occasion that everyone who was qualified would be getting an offer. Oops, guess that didn't work out.

310 is right.

310,

I will admit that V&E did say that, which is unfair. However, 309 has a good point. When you have a bunch of summer associates in for the summer, if you plan to no offer a bunch of them (like every other single firm in Texas), would it be better to make those 6 weeks hellish and competitive or try and be as positive as possible?

310-
Were you qualified?

255 -

Kirkland NY is a panacea. Kidding. The Kirkland office was very busy, particularly IP Lit and Restructuring. The office was pretty optimistic, but it's hard to say that any associate is full of merth in this economy. Summers were given *gasp* real work to do, and were kept very busy. Given that Kirkland is one of the best firms to weather the current economic climate, it's definitely a good place to be.

Aww, Ropes summer associates! You all bonded! That will be so great when you're spending your deferred year trekking in the Himalayans, sweating your debt payments and health insurance, and praying you have a job in 2011. Enjoy the love now, while it lasts.

-Associate at firm without deferred start dates

313 - No, miserably unqualified apparently, haha.

-310

314 - any word on offers at Kirkland?

Any word on other Jones Day offices besides NY?

Skadden DC gave offers to all but one

in the houston v&e numbers, you gotta account for people who were splitting w/ different v&e offices -- eg, someone might have been no-offered in houston but offered in austin.

Dewey NY summer. Most retarded chick in the history of SA's received an offer, so it seems they were handing them out like candy. This place is absurd, some of the summers seriously did not deserve an offer. I am 100% sure there are 3L's and possible laterals elsewhere that deserve these opportunities a lot more. For shame.

That being said, glad to have a job.

312 - From what I understand of the V&E summer program at Houston it was hellish and competitive anyways. Because of the raw number of 2Ls people couldn't help but assume there would be a number of no-offers, despite what the firm was representing. Nothing spells disaster like doubling the size of the summer class in this economy, which is what a number of V&E offices did.

320: wouldn't the same apply to other texas firms? or are summers at VE more likely to split?

307- now I know your numbers are wrong.

309: I'm one of those PH summers (NY). I would compare the experience to Lord of the Flies.

on sept 16th, the day after Lehman collapsed, any firm that did not IMMEDIATELY cancel all callbacks and cease all offers was retarded.

Weil had 97 summers, 15 returning 2Ls who already had permanent offers and one 1L. Out of 81 new 2L summers who whose fate was up in the air, a definite 10 got no-offered as of two weeks ago. As of that same time, an additional one or two people still finishing up were rumored to not be getting offers. Not sure what happened to them. The school one went to offered no protection whatsoever - numerous students from Top 6 schools got no-offered.

Anyone from V&E who got no offered get an offer from another firm they split with?

308: cravath gives you 90k to take a year off and clerk, plus pay your student loans while you are away. obviously you have never worked in biglaw if you think that is a bad deal.

309: The Bob Wertheimer quotes were quite inspirational, just what we needed.

320 -

Don't be stupid.

For the TX SAs who received offers - any word yet on start dates?

maybe Latham should hand out inspirational quotes to its first years

more on DC offices

329 -- it's only 60k for current summers being deferred till 2011. and you don't get the money if you clerk. don't be a moron -- no judge is gonna allow you to collect 60k from freakin cravath while you're clerking for him/her! take prof responsibility/ethics when you get a chance.

330 The only consolation for no-offered PH summers is that the firm is in major financial straits.

139: 100% offers means 100% of people who aren't moronic enough to fight with a partner as a summer associate. If someone fights with a partner as a summer, imagine the balls that grow when they are associates.

seriously, this is all irrelevant..let's talk about DC

321 - elaborate please

I started the first week of the summer in V&E's Houston office, and I want to set a few things straight.

1: I know firsthand that V&E was crystal clear with first and second week starters: they explicitly stated they planned to give "offers roughly in line with what [they] gave the year before." I and pretty much everyone else checked NALP and saw straight away that a 50% offer rate would be about right.

2: V&E again stated that offers would be comparable to the prior year during a mandatory all Houston clerk event in which the status of the firm was discussed and projections were made.

3: The junior and mid-level associates I spoke to were without exception extremely candid that the buzz around the office was offers would be rather hard to come by. Even partners and the people in AEO were candid that offers would be much harder to come by than in prior years.

4: I think it really sucks that the summer was so heavily oversubscribed. I think V&E also thinks it sucks and feels terrible about the blunder they made. However, to pretend that everyone "deserves" an offer simply for having a pulse is pretty ridiculous. I don't care whether it was (until now) common practice for our industry. Hiring anyone and everyone regardless of demonstrated ability is a dysfunctional and inefficient approach to running a business. That wouldn't make it feel any better to me had I been no offered, but it's the truth nonetheless.

5: When talking among ourselves, we SAs all said that the summer would be a bloodbath and offers were likely to be 50 percent or so. We all said it would be a rough ride with seemingly random pitfalls. I don't understand where the surprise is coming from now that what we all seemed to say and understand has actually happened. What's the deal?

340:

"offers roughly in line with what [they] gave the year before."

roughly in line in terms of absolute number or proportion? NALP shows 37/40 for last year

340 is credited.
Summer associates were note "fired," "screwed," or "shitcanned." We were hired for a summer job. In an ideal world, most of us would get offers. In case you've had your head in the sand for the past year, this is not an ideal world right now. We would not have necessarily fared better at any other firm. Time to suck it up and not be whiny loose cannons on an internet board.

341: they said they would have the same class size as last year, so absolute numbers, not proportion.

I can vouch that this was explicitly stated to first and second week starters. I admit to not knowing what was stated at the orientation for those coming in during other weeks. However, #5 stands for all the summers with whom I spoke, regardless of starting during the first, second, or some other week.

340 is wrong on a numerical basis. last year V&E made 37/40 offers. there was no way they were going to repeat that this year. Therefore points 1 and 2 do not seem to be correct.

Yeah, "in line with last year" would have meant 37/40 or 95%. V&E lied. Summers' careers died.

Re Gibson Dunn (LA) - I have only heard of two GDC summers not receiving offers, and one was a splitter. I call bullshit on the "significantly under 100%" claims. Offer rate was at least 90-95%.

346 - you clearly haven't talked to enough people then. Ask around, the truth shall set you free.

any word on ATL?

V&E Houston did say "in line with last year" for first week starters. I and others believed that meant proportionally "in line with last year" and not numerically "in line with last year"

294 - Fulbright gave 80% offers? I thought they haven't announced yet. Expand please? 80%? What was their offer rate last year?

350:

25/27 for Fulbright Houston

315 - get your facts straight. Ropes deferral forlegal or nonlegal fellowship: 60k stipend, 20k interest free salary advance, and full dental, medical, and vision coverage.

To 340, D.C. summers were likewise told that "offers would be comparable to the prior year." However, we were also told in the same spiel that everyone receiving positive performance reviews would be given an offer. You could tell the guy giving the presentation regretted saying it the minute it came out of his mouth though.

Am I the only one who sees all these firms at 100% on here but knows people who were not given offers at these firms? Talking to my classmates it was pure carnage in ATL, DC, and Houston. The anecdotal is not consistent with these numbers.

354 - all of the 100% figures are for NYC (and a couple Boston). Doesn't seem inconsistent with carnage in ATL, DC and Houston.

Is there seriously no news from the bay area? Did these offices just not make offers yet or was it just a major bloodbath??

I had one partner (family friend) from a NY firm tell me that they made bum offers to a bunch of SA's. He said he has never seen anything like it in the twelve years he has been there. They made offers, but they did not give start dates, or left themselves ways to rescind if they need to. He said it was crazy. I am skeptical about these 100% figures, it doesn't make sense.

i heard there were a number of stealth layoffs across V&E shortly after offers went out, anyone have any more info?

new york gave out offers! woo!

Mark my words: these supposed 100% offers are anything but, it is more like 40% at best. We will here from these people in the next few months and the true horror of the legal job market will be revealed.

360- I bet once these NY and Boston firms see the carnage in other areas of the country they will join in and start pulling back offers. They just misplayed the field, they thought everyone was going to try and keep their NALP stats perfect but since so many firms across the country are giving sub 50% offers they will gladly join in the blood bath.

335 --

You're probably a troll but I just want to clear things up for anyone who might have been persuaded.

1. The Cravath stipend is $65,000 + $1000 p/m for loan payments + full health.

2. You get it if you clerk. You also get a clerkship bonus of $25,000, if you would normally have qualified (some clerkships but not others). In fact, there are no strings attached to the stipend at all, except that you return to Cravath in 2011.

3. Judges hire clerks knowing that they'll get clerkship bonuses upon returning to their firm all the time. I doubt this is an issue, but I don't know enough about it to say for sure.

wilmerhale boston is definitely not 100%

362-

i'm not talking about he clerkship bonus. i'm talking about the 65k or whatever. why would they give 65k to clerks this year when they gave zero to clerks every other year in the firm's 100 year history?

i'm no Prof Resp/ethics expert, but we'll see how sdny/2nd circuit judges (or any judge) feel about having clerks who are actively on the payroll of cravath.

i wonder if all the smu, south texas, and baylor students got offers at v&e.

362 - are you saying the firm pays 65k on TOP of the clerk's salary? so there are people deferred who are simultaneously collecting both, to the tune of 120k? plus 1000/mo? clarify please.

WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT VINSON & ELKINS? STOP TALKING ABOUT THEM.

anybody heard back in b'ham?

anybody heard back in b'ham?

anybody heard back in b'ham?

What about other Boston firms?

What about other Boston firms?

How come no one is talking about V&E Houston?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

Nashville or Memphis, anyone?

361- No one in NYC cares about the offer rate at one firm in Texas.

To be fair,

the VE partners at all times said all qualified people would receive offers. Except they failed to mention that "all" equals 40% of the class. They are a festering TTT firm and the ship be sinking. Abandon ship to BB or FJ while you still can.

hth

How about Gibson DC?

Re: Stealth Layoffs at V&E

I've heard similar rumors, although it seems the departures have been a mix of "stealth layoffs" and pre-planned voluntary departures, with the voluntary departures asked to stick around through the summer.

Check out the "lawyer" section of V&E's website. If they're like some firms, a number of "hits" will be reported when you search for attorneys. Search firmwide or by office to see if that number has changed since the end of the summer program.

TX SAs: Have any of your firms given start dates in the offer phone call???

384 - my friend got an offer from GD DC, but didn't seem to know the offer rate...

I can confirm that in DC, a number of patent attorneys have been sent packing, including partners. The main issue was that Seth did not think that certain clients would pay the increased rates (Seth really wants to turn PHJW into Latham), so the partners and a number of associates were sent packing.

to the person that asked earlier

i know of multiple people no-offered by bb and ve who got jobs at their second firm.

to the ve commentators, the 30-35 number is just plain wrong. it was 50.

Re: Gibson DC - 90%-ish

Anyone know about Morgan Lewis DC?

390 here - disclaimer: more of a guess based on friends talked to than on concrete information. Just trying to help.

364 - The deferral checks are lump sum paid up-front and they are definitely not payroll. The deferred associates are explicitly not employees of the firm.

The extent to which a clerk might have an ethical issue if their deferring law firm were actually appearing before their judge. In which case they would inform the judge and screen themselves from that matter. This is a routine occurance for clerks who summered at big firms.

253 - offer rate at GDC-LA, including splitters, was ~95%. Stop spreading false information, troll.

394 - It was sub 90, if you think that is false you haven't talked to enough people.

Firms with informally reported offer rates at or near 100% (info culled from this post and comments):

Tier 1

DPW (100%)
Debevoise (100%)
STB (100%)
Skadden NY (100%)
Kramer Levin (100%)
K&L Gates NY (100%)
Dewey NY (100%)
Willkie DC (100%)
Ropes Boston (100%)

Tier II

Cahill (near or at 100%)
Kasowitz (near or at 100%)
V&E NY (near or at 100%)
Jones Day NY (near or at 100%)
Quinn NY (near or at 100%)

Tier III

Cravath (near 100%)
S&C (near 100%)
WilmerHale Boston (near 100%)

257 might be right for other offices, but Covington NY has given offers, and is at or near 100%.

Cooley?

397, I only know about Covington DC.

I have it on good authority that the VE stealth layoffs happened.

I can't confirm that the number of summers who got offers. But, after talking to career services at UT, it seems like the number is closer to 35 - 40. They wouldn't say, but I guess we'll find out when NALP comes out, assuming VE doesn't lie.

What about other VE offices? What's the deal there?

Bracewell was less than 50%?

400- i wouldn't make that assumption after seeing what they did all summer

400- i wouldn't make that assumption after seeing what they did all summer

402 -

Yes. Houston is Waterloo and the SAs are the French.

340 - get off your offer high. just because you were one of the randomly selected few doesn't mean that the no-offers were justified. plenty of deserving SAs were screwed. i have a friend who was constantly told their work was of the highest quality ever seen there in the summer...yet no offer was given to this person. apparently highest quality now means you deserve a giant black mark on your resume because the firm made huge mistakes

What can UT do to VE Houston? Put a warning label on future OCI boards

406- your sense of entitlement is why you didn't get an offer. Obvi.

I have a friend from VE HOUSTON who didnt get an offer even though he was told that his work was "stellar" and that the partners would "love to have him" on the team and couldn't wait for him to start.

when the hiring partner called to say no offer, all the hiring partner could say was that there was not one specific reason for the no offer, just that things "didn't work out"

There were 15 summers at V&E's DC office. Of those 15, I know what happened to 4 - none were offered.

Lat, please just make a thread on V&E's offer rate so that all the discussion about that can go there.

I wanna talk about other firms. You know, ones that people care about.

396 -

The tier system is nice, but what about firms who laid off a bunch of 1st and 2nd years (or made them take mandatory "sabbaticals" like Dewey) and are now giving offers to summers? That shouldn't be rewarded as Tier 1.

Magungo and Latuka is reporting 100% for all offices, except for their Lake Victoria office, where the summers apparently just banged the bongo drums all day.....

Do NYC V15 or V10 firms pull this crap where they give you all positive reviews and then no-offer you for some trumped up reason or is that only in TX and secondary markets?

That seems like a pretty deceitful move to me.

414,

This seems to be a trend in secondary markets.

WilmerHale Boston is no offering thick-legged girls from Northeastern School of Law

Where are people getting their information about Bracewell offering < 50%?

257 is correct. Covington DC has not communicated offer decisions yet.

408 re 406. note the word FRIEND. no sense of self entitlement. "OBVI". i hope your grown-up approach to the english language and thorough examination of the facts serves you well at V&E

Baker Botts Houston is no-offering people left and right

There is no such thing as "Ropes Boston"

Ropes gave out offers to all of its summer associates. NY, Chicago, San Fran, Palo Alto, DC...

i heard that BB shat out some offers after eating taco bell burritos - at least they were warm offers.

I was in Houston, I saw firsthand BB, Bracewell, VE, BM. I have a theory, they made offers to the people they thought had the least chance of accepting for the most part. When talking to some classmates and comparing notes it is apparent that work quality had little or nothing to do with their decisions, it was all about trying to hire as few people as possible.

So V&E obviously made a mistake in decided to hire as many summers as they did. There is no denying that and they will admit it to it. But what do you want them to do? Continue to compound that mistake by now offering everybody jobs so they have a bloated first year class?

Some say they could have rescinded offers so people could have found other opportunities. When people started to hear that there were going to be close to 80 other summer associates they should have seen the writing on the wall; not everybody was getting an offer. They were free to look for other opportunities. However, I personally am glad they didn't rescind offers because I don't think I would have found another opportunity for this summer come March of last year. I rather have $30,000 from this past summer than $0.

Any news on the Willkie NY offer rate?

294 - where are you getting the 80% number for Fulbright Houston? WHEN are they telling the summers the newS?
351 is wrong.

351 here;

25/27 for Fulbright Houston was in response to someone's question about their offer rate last year.

Seriously, why is there no discussion on V&E Houston?

Fulbright SA here. No call yet.

To clear up some of the information about V&E Houston - Yeah, they no-offered a lot of people.

But what should be plainly obvious to people is that V&E is a firm that really stresses and brags about their transactional practice. So they had a shit ton of summers who were really only interested in doing transactional work. If you look at the people who were no offered, MANY of them were only interested in working M&A, ETP (Basically Energy M&A), and Capital Markets. Oh wait...Those are all SLOW right now.

The whole thing is a lot less random than people want to admit.

And to reference some of the earlier comments, back in my days as a Frat Stud, people used to use the term "winning rush" when they got all of the rushees that other groups wanted. That's what happened to V&E this year - they offered many of the same people as BB and FJ, and a TON of those people chose V&E, leaving them with way too big of a class.

This offer rate is something that EVERYONE, including the Summers, saw coming.

This sucks. I got shafted by my firm.

430- A self described "Frat Stud"

That says it all.

3/12 akin houston

433 - Boy am I glad I turned that offer down.

430-
I think you're more or less right, although won't the NYC folks also be doing capital markets, M&A, etc.?
I think the firm is hiring for the long term, and a lot of the people who received offers across all offices (60? 70?) will end up in corporate. The firm just couldn't absorb 120 new lawyers.

We've heard from Ropes and Wilmer... What's Goodwin going to do???

335, 366, et al: The Cravath bonus is 65k for anyone who accepts the offer, regardless of whether you clerk or not. On top of that, if you clerk for a federal or state high court, you get a 25k clerkship bonus paid in 2011 when you start. The 65k is paid upfront unless a judge has an issue with it, in which case the firm will pay all 90k on arrival in 2011. (Most judges won't care, FYI.) The 1k a month for loan payments is on top of that, as well as health coverage if you don't have it from elsewhere. Oh, and the offer is for guaranteed employment starting in fall 2011. It's a sweet deal if you clerk. (Sweet deal if you don't clerk, too.)

Any more details on Akin? DC? NY?

366, Yeah, you get 90k for clerking, plus the clerk salary, plus they make your loan payments. 335 has no clue what he is talking about, and he's jealous (so am I).

But, summers didn't see VE extending 70 positions for the summer. If they had known that VE was extending 70 summer positions, they would have gone elsewhere where they at least had a shot at getting a job, not shafted.

Did I mention that VE is so poor that they couldn't even afford to feed their summers? Yeah, that's right. Summers didn't get fed two days a week . They were on their own and went to buy lunch at the food court. What a waste of a summer for them.

Anyone know what the PHJW rate for the DC office is going to look like??

FYI, V&E Houston made 48 2L offers. I think there were 75 clerks. Also, 3 summers who clerked in Houston received offers for other V&E offices. Thus, the total no offered = 24.

64% were offered Houston, 68% were offered V&E.

Additionally, 3 1Ls received return offers. I'm not sure how many 1Ls there were. I believe no more than 5.

V&E Houston's offer rate was 70%.

The 30% who didn't get offers are now posting and trying to make it seem like V&E's numbers were worse than they are. Hopefully, lying about the situation makes them feel better. A good number of the no offers split their summers between V&E and another firm so if they are as unfairly screwed over as they seem to believe, I am sure they will find employment at their second firm.

But again, the V&E offer rate in Houston was 70% and it was higher in all other offices. Those are the facts.

V&E Houston's offer rate was 70%.

The 30% who didn't get offers are now posting and trying to make it seem like V&E's numbers were worse than they are. Hopefully, lying about the situation makes them feel better. A good number of the no offers split their summers between V&E and another firm so if they are as unfairly screwed over as they seem to believe, I am sure they will find employment at their second firm.

But again, the V&E offer rate in Houston was 70% and it was higher in all other offices. Those are the facts.

for those who asked, quinn sf definitely gave out offers. not sure on the numbers tho

The total no offered was 22, not 24. Otherwise accurate. This does not include 1Ls. There were 4 1Ls, 3 were given return offers

K&L Gates Chi and LA are substantially below 50%.

Moral of the story: don't work in Texas.

444 & 446 = fail - total no offered 2Ls = 34
Believe me, those of us who got no offers made sure to find out these numbers.

This is just an impartial comment on V&E's numbers. If the 50+ offers number is correct, then I wonder why they are able to offer so many people for Houston when comparably sized firms in the same city are offering much fewer numbers. It seems hard to believe that office would be able to absorb so many people in this economy when every other firm in Houston appears to think otherwise.

If you had a V&E offer along with an offer from another firm, you'd probably be thinking real hard about the other offer. You probably don't want to be in a situation next year where the incoming attorney class is huge and the economy is still not great. Not only is there a chance for layoffs (especially for a firm that has stated they have not laid off anyone yet), but there will be a lot of competition for whatever work there is. Given that you really only learn from work experience, that could really stunt your development as an attorney (again assuming you aren't laid off).

I think that the top V&E offerees have options elsewhere and will choose those other options over V&E. Fighting off potentially 50 other new attorneys for work in a down economy would not be appealing and would add an unnecessary element of risk.

MORE INFO ON BRACEWELL.

@ 447, If K&L Gates was 100% in NYC, I find it hard to believe that it was "substantially below 50%" in Chicago and LA, unless it way-overhired (a la V&E Houston) in those offices.

NYC "Nice Firms"

DPW: 100%
Debevoise: 100%
STB: 100%
Cleary: TBD

449

You fail. I know the numbers. You just gossip. Sorry you didn't get an offer but whining about it won't change that. And we have to correct your misinformation.

Can confirm that Mofo NY is 100%

455: how can you confirm that?

Texas slaughtered.

We've got this old saying back in Texas: "When the economy tanks, throw your summers under the bus." Maybe you've heard of it.

Earth to 458, summer associates are INTERNS. They are not necessarily entitled to anything. The firm did well not to hire an immature loose cannon such as yourself.

450--VE could take that number if they use rolling deferred start dates again. Raises the question of just how much of a deferral this year's offered summers should expect.

460, although nothing is finalized I have it on good authority that start dates for V&E are going to be Sept. through Nov. 2010. As last year, it will mainly be left to each individual when they would like to start.

Is the V&E guy the hiring partner or something? He is getting a bit snippy about things.

cleary offers are rolling in...so far haven't heard or any no-offers or cold-offers

Please. News about firms other than VE. News about regions other than fuckin TX. Stop talking about Cravath's pimp handouts too.

441: 50% will get PH engraved coat hangers shoved up their bums.

465-
I don't think you get that whole PH gold coat hanger thing. It's not about hangers being shoved up peoples' asses.

anything on offers from Kirkland (any offices)?

463: are you at Cleary? Did you get a call?

Straight from recruiting at PHJW - no offers made yet.

Latham DC made offers to 29 of 32 summers.

Did I mention that VE is so poor that they couldn't even afford to feed their summers? Yeah, that's right. Summers didn't get fed two days a week . They were on their own and went to buy lunch at the food court. What a waste of a summer for them.

PSA: VE offer rate: 43%

471, most firms did not feed their SAs once or twice a week. I've heard of firms that even scrimped on events. Apparently one of the major events at a NY firm was a so-called food tour of Manhattan. It really was a bunch of associates making the summers walk to hole in the walls, where the associates told the summers to wait outside while they got them a single dish to share amongst themselves. Imagine 40 summers trying to share two shwarmas. That's what I call cheap! I would take buying my lunch twice a week over that any time.

469 -- Recruiting in what office?

Has Milbank made any calls yet? Given what happened right before the summer started, is this going to be ugly?

Milbank called me.

Can we get an update of this thread?
I'm wondering about Willkie NY, Wilmer NY, Sidley NY, Latham NY....

PHJW NY is making calls this afternoon... how many no-offers?

No offered @ PHNY

Can we get this bumped? VE Houston apparently no offered more than half the class. It was the largest class in the great state of Texas. Gutless and heartless law partners.

PSA: VE had no summer events and never fed their summer associates and no offered more than 60% of the class. That's right, 42 of the 79 summers got NO OFFERED!

ATL should ask a certain hiring partner about this abysmal offer rate.

I call BS on at least two or three of these GDC commenters. The very few people who got no offers worked pretty hard to earn their dings.

479, I'm not sure what you mean you were never feed. I only feed myself 4 times the whole summer.

479- we were fed four times a week. I 'm just as pissed as you are, but you can't lower yourself to VE's level and start lying. That makes you no better than those lying assholes.

Another no offered at PHNY. These people are so full of shit, especially the office chair.

No offered at PH-NY. This is unbelievable. I feel totally deceived.

Another no offered at PH NY. These people should burn in hell.

is this PHNY flame or for real?

486 -- Its probably flame. I haven't even gotten a call yet, so who knows.

No offered PH summer here. The PH no offers are legit. Not all calls have been given out but it is not looking good.

I am happy for those that do receive offers because some job security is better than none. I hope those who did not get an offer are not beating themselves up about it. Sure the manner in which it was handled was not needed ("your work did not meet the very high standards of PH"). . . we know we did good work and it was just a numbers game. You will land on your feet if you keep focused on whatever goals you may have and listen there is a reason that people flee from these jobs once loans are paid off. Plus after the summer we had how can you really be that upset?

487 - Its not flame.

487 - Its not flame.

PH/NY just fucked me in the ass. The chair is a lying piece of shit.

PH/NY just fucked me in the ass. The chair is a lying piece of shit.

PH/NY just fucked me in the ass. The chair is a lying piece of shit.

491: I disagree! He is an unctuous lying piece of shit!

486 - Sadly, this is for real. Just got rejected by PH-NY. Now I understand why there are so many posters ripping this reeking shithole.

494 - I had the same experience with the little motherfucker.

Did PH NY pull a VE Houston? Did anyone actually get an offer?

Plenty of people at V&E Houston got offers.

PH associate here. No-offered summers, consider yourselves lucky. Hopefully, you will land in a place that values its human capital. You should not have to experience what this place has in store for you.

498: Are you in the NY office? They have the worst soul-crushing management in the entire organization.

Sorry, PH summers. Did they prep you for this during the summer or total surprise?

What about PH LA? Any better off?

500 - PHNY lied to us from the beginning to the end. Considering my experiences and observations, I'm already seeing my no-offer in a positive light.

494/495: PH summer here. Yeah, he ACTS like a nice guy, kids around with you, is irreverent, etc. But he will fuck you in the ass the minute you turn your back.

503 - So you were no-offered?

504: Fuck yeah!

503

According to NALP, PH-NY took more 2L summers this year than in either of the previous two years. The overhiring certainly wasn't of V&E Houston proportions, but was nonetheless irresponsible.

It looks like PH-LA was a bit more conservative in its hiring. That may not make a difference, of course.

so much for PH-DC

Another no-offered PH NY summer. These partners have no sense of decency.

506 - It didn't make a difference for me. Got no-offered by PH LA.

PHNY no offered summer here but its all good. . . just listen to some "everyday im hustlin" by rick ross and get on your grind and it will be fine. For those with an offer. . . good work and you guys deserved it (too bad most of us did as well)

Rejected PH/NY summer here. Law students, take heed.

PHNY associate here. Rejected summers, you will eventually see this as a good thing. Once the market turns around, most of us (those who are left) will bolt as soon as possible.

PH NY summer. I'm drowning my sorrows tonight.

It's looking like PH no-offered more than 50% of its SAs.

I don't think PH lied to us, I think they were priming us for no offers from the beginning. My handout of inspirational quotes is carrying me through now.

no offered phny summer here. another one. at first i was pretty upset, but now, not so much. fellow summers, all the best.

Paul Hastings people, why are you so upset? Why do you seem to genuinely revile PH (especially in NY)? What do they do that is apparently so much worse than other big law firms? All big law firms mistreat and devalue their associates to some degree. But PH must be doing something horrible to you to cause you to so frequently and so vehemently castigate them. Please tell us what it is. I am genuinely interested.

I haven't heard back from PH NY. Am I no-offered? couldn't they just at least email us about the decisions?

518 -- I haven't heard either. I figure we'll probably get called today.

does anyone have solid numbers on how many offers phny handed out?

Jones Day (NY) was definitely at 100%. I was told that by someone on the inside.

Jones Day (NY) was definitely at 100%. I was told that by someone on the inside.

My friend just got an offer from PHNY for 2010 summer. I think that's partially the reason it no offered so many current summers.

when do the actual numbers get posted on NALP?

517, PHNY summer was hell! I had friends at other firms, and while they were stressed about offers, their level of stress didn't even come close to mine. We were told from the very beginning that not all of us will get offers, which led summers to become cutthroat and ultra-competitive. There was a summer who was notorious for hoarding all the corporate assignments because she didn't want others to get their hands on them. Summers came into each others offices randomly to check what they were doing, and they would grill each other constantly to get an idea of how many assignments everyone was doing. I worked on a couple of assignments with summers, and the people I worked with would either not share the information they had found -- even though we were supposed to collaborate -- or they would rat other summers out to the partner or associate. To top it all off, we had meetings where PH told us that we were such utter failures that we didn't even know how to send emails properly.

Wow, PH NY sounds like a hellhole for summers. My summer was bad enough at a supposedly secure firm. Schniekies!

525 - I agree... being a summer there was hell. I would rather jump off the empire state building hoping to catch a needle in my eye lid and hang from it for 24 hours than work there.

Another no offered PHNY - I think they gave 50-60% offers

Career Services at my school SUCK.

Any news out of L.A.?

PH NY ding here. Dang.

531, did you get an email or did they call? Would you mind telling us what they said?

531- They call and they say "we are in the midst of making our hiring calls. . . our decisions were based on your evaluations and unfortunately your performance did not meet the very high standards of PH. . . " - - - which at this point you should cut off the person calling you. It is one thing to get no offered but it takes nerve to do it in a manner that makes you want to blame yourself and not the firm. Also, the person that calls also took credit for discovering globalization at one of our meetings.

But Erika Collins seems so nice!

@ 533 -- WOW. The least they could do is acknowledge that it's the economy, not summers' supposedly subpar performance or PH's "very high standards," that is to blame for the low offer rate.

Paul HasTTTings -- what a bunch of turds!

Paul HasTTTings -- what a bunch of turds! Thanks for ruining the careers of over half your summers, you fucktards!

any news on VE Houston and how they ruined the careers of law students this year ?? ?

It comes as no surprise that PHJW would simply apply the stealth model they've perfected to the summers. Now you know the ugly truth about this indecent shithole. They don't value their human capital, are not loyal to those who are loyal to them, and will throw you under the bus for another nickel of PPP. The NY office is the worst all around. It is run by the snakiest bean-counter you could ever imagine (oh, but he seems like such a nice guy!).

533: That is exactly what I was told (PHNY). ATL should do a story on the sleazy way this was handled.

539: I've heard all the stories about this guy that the associates were willing to share. Apparently, he is a malignant little shit-stain.

PH-LA summer here. No dice.

Inquiry for rising 2Ls that summered at PHJW -- Did anyone receive an offer to return for 4 weeks? Or do all offers to return require 8 weeks, start of summer?

Yes, can we have a story on this PH NY mess, please?

What's the percentage at PH NY. Did anyone actually get an offer?

534 - I agree with you. They should not have blamed it on the evaluations.

Any news on Sidley, Kirkland and Mayer Brown?

I received an offer from PH-NY. I will not be accepting it. I just want to make clear that the negative comments about PHJW are not a result of SAs who are bitter because they didn't get an offer. I had a horrible experience there and until today thought I was alone. The summer program was horribly managed, and I felt unwelcome the whole time I was there. My offer call was about as cold as the no-offer calls I'm reading about. I think I got "lucky" by happening to make connections with a couple of partners but am disgusted that so many people who worked their asses off are now being made to feel like they did poor work.

547 - what did they say to you, if you don't mind sharing? i also received an offer, but am not sure if it was a cold offer.

"We are in the process of communicating our hiring decisions which is why I am contacting you. We are making you an offer to join us. Your evaluations were excellent. We will send you the formal letter and you will have 45 days to respond."

544 - From what I gather, the PH NY summer offer rate is around 40%.

476 -

Sidley NY won't call until September.

Willkie NY seems okay. Friend got an offer after a relatively stress-free summer. Hasn't heard about anyone getting no offered yet.

Wilmer NY no idea.

Latham NY who gives a shit?

i received an offer from PHNY and will be taking it because I need a job, even if it is with a firm that has been described by associates (DURING A SUMMER PROGRAM) as "soul-crushing." At least those working at PHNY are going into the situations with their eyes wide open about how little the firm cares about its people. Low expectations are key with this firm.

I'm voting for PH as the worst TTT of them all (sorry Lathamites).

No offered at PH-LA. Oh well.

The PHNY offer rate is above 50%.

PHNY no offer. What is going on here??? The verbal feedback I received from the partners was all positive.

555 - That's not what I've been told by my contact in firmwide hr. It's worse than anyone imagined.

521/522 - from what I've heard some other JD offices are well below 100%, unfortunately...

anyone no-offered at Willkie NY? What about non-NY Skadden offices?

@ 557--Any explanation for the abysmal offer rate, other than poor planning on the firm's part?

547 - You could not have said it any better. The summer was horrible.

OMM?

Paul Hastings is *not* a peer firm.

561--Word on the street is that OMM isn't announcing till next week at the earliest.

559: They simply over-hired. Now they're trimming their sails in the sleaziest way possible. I'm truly ashamed to work here.

PW is making offers today. As far as I know, everyone got an offer.

OMM offers went out this morning